Episodes

Episode 141: Diving Deeper Into The Qualified Default Investment Alternative Market With Tamiko Toland

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Since the passage of the SECURE Act, we’ve all been talking a lot more about the institutional annuity market. However, Tamiko Toland with CANNEX has been working hard to build this business for a long time. Today we talk with her about the real opportunities and obstacles to bringing guaranteed income to a wider segment of the population.
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Transcript

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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show and

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[Paul Tyler]: ramsey good to see you

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[Ramsey Smith]: always glad to be here

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[Paul Tyler]: and we have a

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[Paul Tyler]: almost regular guest returning guest do you wanna do you wanna do the intro here

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[Ramsey Smith]: sure so time ago i think this is this is at least your third time here and um you

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[Ramsey Smith]: know we should do something like on saturday night live like when you get on when

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[Ramsey Smith]: you host for five times you get like a jacket or something like that so we’re

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[Ramsey Smith]: so third time i think end counting right

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[Ramsey Smith]: delighted to have you back for those of you who don’t know Tamiko Toland she is the

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[Ramsey Smith]: director of retirement markets at k x k x is a leading provider of data for the

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[Ramsey Smith]: insurance life insurance industry and the annuity industry in particular

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[Ramsey Smith]: and Tamiko’s influence

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[Ramsey Smith]: is really remarkable it spans retail and increasingly institutional and that’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: what we’re going to spend a lot of time talking about

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[Tamiko Toland]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: today is

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[Ramsey Smith]: a lot a lot of the progress that’s going on in what is probably the biggest

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[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity in the guaranteed income space

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[Tamiko Toland]: space

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[Ramsey Smith]: and

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[Ramsey Smith]: the core work that Tamiko her team and her affiliates to doing to get us

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[Ramsey Smith]: there so with that Tamiko

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[Tamiko Toland]: that’s not something

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[Ramsey Smith]: tell us about some of the things that you’ve been you’ve been up to lately

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[Tamiko Toland]: sure

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[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know you

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[Tamiko Toland]: so before i i dive right into the four one key space i’ll

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: mention a couple pieces that came out recently

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[Tamiko Toland]: and one was for investments and wealth monitor and it’s

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[Paul Tyler]: it about nine

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[Tamiko Toland]: really just about the validity of replacing

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[Tamiko Toland]: some or all the fixed income allocation and retirement with a guaranteed income

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[Tamiko Toland]: source and i say it like that because we did the research on based on spa but you

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[Tamiko Toland]: can replace other annuities as well so but still always

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[Paul Tyler]: so

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[Tamiko Toland]: annuities but

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[Paul Tyler]: but

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[Tamiko Toland]: that this actually

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: improves outcomes um both in terms of income sustainability and

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[Paul Tyler]: get what

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[Tamiko Toland]: actually legacy which is i th

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[Paul Tyler]: i i feel like that’s

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[Tamiko Toland]: i feel like that’s a sort of the hidden story um

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[Paul Tyler]: else

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[Tamiko Toland]: when it comes to guaranteed income that we act

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[Paul Tyler]: y

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[Tamiko Toland]: like it’s it’ going to make legacy worse but anyway so another

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[Paul Tyler]: another

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[Tamiko Toland]: piece uh that i’ve done recently is uh for the journal of pension benefits and it

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[Tamiko Toland]: is on the topic of four hundred thousand that’s been a huge focus of mine over

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[Tamiko Toland]: the last couple of years and we’re very excited to be involved in the lifetime

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[Tamiko Toland]: income consortium where we’re really going to be focusing on this topic with a

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[Tamiko Toland]: group of member companies

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[Tamiko Toland]: this the administrative home for this is broad ridge fi three hundred sixty

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[Tamiko Toland]: solutions and we’re also working with another

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[Tamiko Toland]: friend of the show michelle rector at fiduciary insurance uh services and so yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: happy to talk about any and all that

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[Paul Tyler]: excellent

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[Paul Tyler]: four one k has been a really interesting topic over a number of years actually

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[Paul Tyler]: years ramsey remember i think we did a podcast way back when episode number seven

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[Paul Tyler]: if you want to look and i think when the secure act came out

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[Paul Tyler]: and you think okay two years what’s happened

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[Paul Tyler]: a lot of companies have sort of

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[Paul Tyler]: looked at this opportunity

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[Paul Tyler]: we see some entrances i’ll leave you know rams you can sort of talk about the

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[Paul Tyler]: industry

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[Tamiko Toland]: sometimes

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[Paul Tyler]: landscape but just in the last like two days i’ve had some real

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[Tamiko Toland]: so

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[Paul Tyler]: interesting inbounds to i

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[Paul Tyler]: one was uh you know a writer for for forbes chris caruso saying looking for

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[Paul Tyler]: people’s

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[Paul Tyler]: answers to a question of what will really make this sales happen in the k space

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[Paul Tyler]: i’ll talk to some other questions again but let’s just kind of throw that out

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[Paul Tyler]: what will

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[Paul Tyler]: or what won’t make uh annuities and four hundred one ks work i don’t know which

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[Paul Tyler]: way you want to take it ramsay don’t know

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[Ramsey Smith]: well i’m taking notes ’cause as you mentioned this is this is an area of primary

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[Ramsey Smith]: focus for

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: for me and my in my company and and uh i i have i have some theories

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[Ramsey Smith]: and very interested to hear tom’s input give me some idea about at least what

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[Ramsey Smith]: we’ve tabulated in terms of i’ll call it deals announced

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Ramsey Smith]: right and and they’re in various stages of actual execution but we recently added

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[Ramsey Smith]: up all everything we could find in the press and there’s something like sixty

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[Ramsey Smith]: billion dollars worth of announcements

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know that are in in in the space

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[Tamiko Toland]: that was so that’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: so’s not that’s not that’s not huge given the seven trillion opportunity

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[Tamiko Toland]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: but it’s not insignificant and my guess is it will continue to grow but how we

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[Ramsey Smith]: get there that’s what tomic is going to share with us so so what do you think

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[Paul Tyler]: yes maybe tom yeah start with what won’t try i don’t know

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Paul Tyler]: i’m fascinated to get your your impression

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[Tamiko Toland]: well i i’m gonna take a step back about a decade um in two thousand twelve i

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[Tamiko Toland]: actually wrote a report on in planned guarantees when i was at strategic insight

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[Tamiko Toland]: because

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[Tamiko Toland]: it was a very hot topic and it was about

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[Paul Tyler]: you think read

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[Paul Tyler]: so

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[Tamiko Toland]: to explode right we all felt like this is necessary it’s beneficial um to

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[Tamiko Toland]: participants right in particular like that’s where a lot of the conversation

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[Tamiko Toland]: focuses

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[Tamiko Toland]: and

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[Paul Tyler]: is

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[Tamiko Toland]: there

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[Paul Tyler]: you were a lot

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[Tamiko Toland]: were a lot of different companies that were coming out

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[Paul Tyler]: no

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[Tamiko Toland]: with initiatives

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[Paul Tyler]: i i have one

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[Tamiko Toland]: that were going to make a big difference and they were really

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: designing around the challenges and

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the big one at that time

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[Paul Tyler]: big one time

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[Tamiko Toland]: was

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[Paul Tyler]: play

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[Tamiko Toland]: eins bernstein and the lifetime income strategy which they

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: actually did get placed as a qa and i’ll explain that a that as a qualified

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[Paul Tyler]: place

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[Tamiko Toland]: default’ investment

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[Tamiko Toland]: alternative right and so this is where

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[Paul Tyler]: wow that was great great branding qualified default wow okay sorry

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[Tamiko Toland]: well it is cause it’s a default

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[Paul Tyler]: yes

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[Tamiko Toland]: right and this has everything to do with the

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[Tamiko Toland]: all the money in motion um within four o one k plans i mean the target date fund

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[Tamiko Toland]: has become the mainstay and it is because of their use as a q dia right and all

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[Tamiko Toland]: these things are are completely related but

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[Paul Tyler]: but it might

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[Tamiko Toland]: it’s funny because you know at the time

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[Tamiko Toland]: i did this research it was more

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[Paul Tyler]: walk

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[Tamiko Toland]: qualitative research where i talked to folks who were involved and collected

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[Tamiko Toland]: information about the different solutions that were out there and so forth and i

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[Tamiko Toland]: said okay well you know this is foundational and then we’re gonna be you know

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[Tamiko Toland]: going up from here and then it just seemed to stall out and

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[Paul Tyler]: wa

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[Tamiko Toland]: despite the efforts with lines burning in their success with the uc plan which is

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[Tamiko Toland]: now part of raytheon so people refer to it as raytheon because they did implement

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[Tamiko Toland]: it

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah it

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[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s been very successful as such it’s they’ve continued and and full

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[Tamiko Toland]: disclosure they are a client of ours so

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[Tamiko Toland]: you know so what’s happened in the last decade why hasn’t it taken off and i

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[Tamiko Toland]: think there are probably a thousand different smaller reasons

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[Tamiko Toland]: and

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[Paul Tyler]: that would

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[Tamiko Toland]: that was one of the the um

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[Paul Tyler]: that

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[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the

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[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the

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[Tamiko Toland]: story

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[Tamiko Toland]: story

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[Paul Tyler]: excuse

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[Tamiko Toland]: and we really pen a lot of the changes on the secure act and i i i do think it’s

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[Tamiko Toland]: helpful and it’s certainly um beneficial

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[Tamiko Toland]: but the reality is that there are a lot of other um

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[Tamiko Toland]: like through

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[Paul Tyler]: like

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[Tamiko Toland]: lines in the industry that are coming together and

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: i kind of want to get to

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[Tamiko Toland]: why is it that plan sponsors

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[Paul Tyler]: you really

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[Tamiko Toland]: really need to consider adoption of

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[Paul Tyler]: like

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[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income it because it the ultimate reason

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[Paul Tyler]: thank you

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[Tamiko Toland]: is not altruistic you know we don’t companies don’t have this paternalistic

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[Tamiko Toland]: attitude in general like we need to take care of people obviously we know the

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[Tamiko Toland]: trend that pensions are dissipating and they’re being

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[Tamiko Toland]: replaced by dc so naturally we need to include some kind of income solution as

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[Paul Tyler]: like like yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: part of so

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[Paul Tyler]: why not

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[Tamiko Toland]: why hasn’t it happened why

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[Paul Tyler]: he get

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[Tamiko Toland]: is it going to suddenly happen i

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[Tamiko Toland]: mean frankly in terms of the economic environment

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[Paul Tyler]: she frankly

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[Tamiko Toland]: um when people are facing uncertainty and

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[Paul Tyler]: you know

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[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i really do think that low interest rates have influences this not

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[Tamiko Toland]: something we really talk about a lot

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[Tamiko Toland]: but the methods that we use to generate income and retirement regardless of where

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[Tamiko Toland]: you’re sitting have

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[Tamiko Toland]: really deteriorated bond ladders don’t have the power that they used to so now

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[Tamiko Toland]: we’re talking about all this as

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[Tamiko Toland]: um moving

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: attitudes in the retail arena well

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[Paul Tyler]: i think

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[Tamiko Toland]: the same really applies it’s the same people right it’s just

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[Paul Tyler]: thank you

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[Tamiko Toland]: regular american workers who are saving

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[Paul Tyler]: is

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[Tamiko Toland]: and when they

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[Tamiko Toland]: approach retirement when they reach retirement age and they do not have the

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[Tamiko Toland]: confidence to retire

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[Tamiko Toland]: and they’re

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Tamiko Toland]: much more likely to stay at their companies

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[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly this is a workforce management issue for companies that want to be

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[Tamiko Toland]: able to hire younger workers promote them through you can’t promote people when

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[Tamiko Toland]: there’s folks already sitting in those positions so that company life cycle

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[Tamiko Toland]: really gets stalled when you have people not retiring right and when you you have

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[Tamiko Toland]: folks that are hanging on not because they’re passionate about their work and

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[Tamiko Toland]: want

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[Paul Tyler]: was

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[Tamiko Toland]: to continue working retirement which is a very valid thing that we talk about so

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[Tamiko Toland]: much more now with you know

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: a revision of how we view retirement but when that’s not the reason people are

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[Tamiko Toland]: are sticking to their jobs

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[Paul Tyler]: no

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[Tamiko Toland]: you know i think there are a lot

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[Paul Tyler]: about

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[Tamiko Toland]: of additional workforce issues and older workers are more expensive to companies

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[Paul Tyler]: and we don’t want talk and i

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[Tamiko Toland]: and you know we don’t want to talk about this and and i really i don’t want to

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[Tamiko Toland]: make sure that i’m be careful not to speak about this from an age’s perspective

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[Tamiko Toland]: because i you know i’m also like

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[Tamiko Toland]: leaning that direction as we all are time time moves in one direction for all of

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[Tamiko Toland]: us

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[Tamiko Toland]: but you really want people to be able to enjoy the retirements that they’ve been

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[Tamiko Toland]: saving for but when you’re not giving them that confidence and you’re not giving

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[Tamiko Toland]: them lifetime income then that

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[Paul Tyler]: that is

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[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t going to happen i

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[Tamiko Toland]: haven’t answered your question but i i see ramsey taking notes and i have a

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[Paul Tyler]: i have these i pay

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[Tamiko Toland]: feeling there might be some more questions flying my way so we we’ll get there

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[Ramsey Smith]: so yes i i was gonna say that is the that is the politest version of o k boomer

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[Ramsey Smith]: i’ve ever heard

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[Ramsey Smith]: um but it’s but let me let me ask you about this so

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[Paul Tyler]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: um

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[Paul Tyler]: um

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[Ramsey Smith]: do you do you get the sense that that companies

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[Ramsey Smith]: hr departments

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[Ramsey Smith]: the folks that are sort of actually dealing with this particular problem you you

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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re saying this can potentially address do you think they see that yet right

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[Ramsey Smith]: do are you

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[Tamiko Toland]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i mean i is that a i i i’m at the end of the day at the end of the day in

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[Ramsey Smith]: order for this to work there have to be pain points right they have to be sort of

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[Ramsey Smith]: pain

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[Tamiko Toland]: that

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[Ramsey Smith]: points that people are

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[Ramsey Smith]: are determined to sort of

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[Tamiko Toland]: just

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[Ramsey Smith]: resolve and so the question is is that a big enough pain point yet you think

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[Tamiko Toland]: i

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[Paul Tyler]: i have that

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[Ramsey Smith]: i i think that that

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[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that it’s a combination of factors and

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: yes

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: i do think that

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[Ramsey Smith]: that

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[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue

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[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue

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[Tamiko Toland]: and i

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[Ramsey Smith]: and i

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[Paul Tyler]: and i think it it just something something like

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[Tamiko Toland]: think and i don’t forget there’s also

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[Ramsey Smith]: like that

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[Tamiko Toland]: like the there’s the

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[Paul Tyler]: parent

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[Tamiko Toland]: carrot not just the stick that

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[Ramsey Smith]: sure

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[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of

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[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of

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[Tamiko Toland]: times

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[Tamiko Toland]: times

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[Tamiko Toland]: that’s what

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[Ramsey Smith]: would be hard

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[Tamiko Toland]: we talk about right

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[Tamiko Toland]: oh

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[Paul Tyler]: oh

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[Ramsey Smith]: oh

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[Tamiko Toland]: participants really want this but participants

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[Ramsey Smith]: one

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[Tamiko Toland]: wanting it isn’t necessarily enough to get

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know your

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[Tamiko Toland]: over the barrier of oh there’s risk for the sponsor and that has been where

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[Ramsey Smith]: your

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[Tamiko Toland]: a lot of the conversations have really

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[Paul Tyler]: water

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[Tamiko Toland]: revolved around and so it’s it’s some you know like it it’s a set of factors and

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[Tamiko Toland]: and one of them is

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[Paul Tyler]: born

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[Tamiko Toland]: lowering the barrier

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[Tamiko Toland]: from a risk perspective which

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[Tamiko Toland]: secure

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[Paul Tyler]: you

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[Ramsey Smith]: here i actually

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[Tamiko Toland]: act does actually uh remove

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[Tamiko Toland]: that

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: that of

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[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of including a safe harb for selection of the insurer but there’s still

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[Tamiko Toland]: a big

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[Tamiko Toland]: gap

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Tamiko Toland]: for implementation

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[Paul Tyler]: and it is

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[Tamiko Toland]: and it is a very significant gap which is

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[Paul Tyler]: how

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[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually

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[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually

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[Tamiko Toland]: make the choice

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[Tamiko Toland]: and we

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[Tamiko Toland]: we

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know that there are

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[Paul Tyler]: else there are right

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[Tamiko Toland]: that there are sort of tried and true methods for other other

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[Paul Tyler]: other

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[Ramsey Smith]: other friend

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[Tamiko Toland]: investments target date funds right like yes

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[Ramsey Smith]: yes

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[Tamiko Toland]: we understand

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[Tamiko Toland]: how

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[Ramsey Smith]: i

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[Tamiko Toland]: other investment options um you know make it into a plan

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[Tamiko Toland]: um but we’re talking about something that’s not just another investment

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[Tamiko Toland]: income is a completely different conversation and it works differently it

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[Ramsey Smith]: that

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[Tamiko Toland]: affects the

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[Paul Tyler]: scientific

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[Tamiko Toland]: dynamics and you know particularly because you’re talking about post retirement

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[Ramsey Smith]: dynamic

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[Tamiko Toland]: right

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[Ramsey Smith]: like the do we

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[Tamiko Toland]: that that’s really where it kicks in so how

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[Tamiko Toland]: does it behave

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[Ramsey Smith]: so how ca

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[Paul Tyler]: keep water

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[Tamiko Toland]: before retirement do we have the same expectations that we do for other

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[Paul Tyler]: that

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[Tamiko Toland]: investments and so it’s a different mindset and so when you ask

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[Paul Tyler]: yes

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[Tamiko Toland]: me like what is the biggest challenge

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[Ramsey Smith]: out

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[Tamiko Toland]: we have been

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[Tamiko Toland]: we have been

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[Tamiko Toland]: working on a lot of the solutions that are necessary for example middleware

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[Tamiko Toland]: solutions which are

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[Paul Tyler]: really

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[Tamiko Toland]: really important for kind

361
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[Paul Tyler]: kind of

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[Tamiko Toland]: of like the connective tissue all right

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[Paul Tyler]: any

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[Tamiko Toland]: for you know getting everybody hooked up to this right and you know

365
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[Paul Tyler]: that

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[Ramsey Smith]: does that work

367
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[Tamiko Toland]: that market has matured significantly in the last decade right where pe you know

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[Tamiko Toland]: we’re seeing some some very positive change right but the reality is that for the

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[Tamiko Toland]: folks who are actually

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[Tamiko Toland]: look at considering these solutions income is not their native language

371
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[Tamiko Toland]: and

372
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[Paul Tyler]: i think that

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[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that is a huge hurdle

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[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of

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[Tamiko Toland]: getting

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[Tamiko Toland]: the let’s say the consultants retirement plan advisors comfortable with making

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[Tamiko Toland]: those recommendations and confident that they are doing that appropriately for

378
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[Tamiko Toland]: the sponsor client right and

379
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[Tamiko Toland]: the

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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s a lot

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors have to feel like

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[Ramsey Smith]: like yeah that that makes sense it fun

384
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[Tamiko Toland]: yeah that that makes sense and i don’t think i just stuck

385
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah that’s it i

386
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[Ramsey Smith]: like

387
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[Tamiko Toland]: my neck out in order to do this and it’s not simply a matter of a legislative fix

388
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[Tamiko Toland]: because we like we don’t need another like

389
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[Paul Tyler]: like

390
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[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this

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[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this

392
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[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly the department of labor generally stays away from that like that you

393
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[Tamiko Toland]: know these things kind of evolve and the general guidelines yes but not very

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[Tamiko Toland]: specific details and particularly on a really a novel subject matter and a novel

395
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[Tamiko Toland]: product dynamic which is what income represents

396
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[Paul Tyler]: so okay when i

397
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[Paul Tyler]: a two part question when i think toco of the group market i think like you

398
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[Paul Tyler]: mentioned a company with a very you know a very big company right

399
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[Paul Tyler]: if you’re marketing products or retirement plans into a large company the needs

400
00:15:07,760 –> 00:15:13,120
[Paul Tyler]: start to tier like executive senior the super executive management team may have

401
00:15:14,000 –> 00:15:17,600
[Paul Tyler]: they may have a fee based only advisory service that helps them do

402
00:15:17,164 –> 00:15:18,164
[Tamiko Toland]: see

403
00:15:17,760 –> 00:15:19,040
[Paul Tyler]: this you to go down

404
00:15:18,724 –> 00:15:19,724
[Tamiko Toland]: or something

405
00:15:19,280 –> 00:15:24,560
[Paul Tyler]: another tier these people aren’t so they they’ve got some big balances but

406
00:15:24,640 –> 00:15:28,880
[Paul Tyler]: they’re not going to have an advisor you get down farther than the company where

407
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[Paul Tyler]: i think i think i heard

408
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[Ramsey Smith]: favorite

409
00:15:29,660 –> 00:15:30,660
[Paul Tyler]: you talking

410
00:15:31,440 –> 00:15:34,880
[Paul Tyler]: or speaking to are people who are you know they’re just trying to pay the bills

411
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[Paul Tyler]: oh by the way

412
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[Ramsey Smith]: lot of time

413
00:15:35,600 –> 00:15:37,280
[Paul Tyler]: oh gee i did have a four one k

414
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[Paul Tyler]: how do you do you see the segmentation

415
00:15:42,400 –> 00:15:45,520
[Paul Tyler]: the drivers of adoption being or should they

416
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[Ramsey Smith]: really

417
00:15:45,680 –> 00:15:49,440
[Paul Tyler]: be different based on your income inside a company

418
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[Tamiko Toland]: so

419
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[Ramsey Smith]: no

420
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[Tamiko Toland]: the thing is that the

421
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

422
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[Tamiko Toland]: really the

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[Ramsey Smith]: like that mind

424
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[Tamiko Toland]: mindset of thinking around this is that the

425
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[Ramsey Smith]: second actually

426
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[Tamiko Toland]: qt is the place where the assets fall because that is the you know the default

427
00:16:03,944 –> 00:16:10,264
[Tamiko Toland]: flows into the qa and that now has become target date funds right and so

428
00:16:09,878 –> 00:16:10,878
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

429
00:16:11,864 –> 00:16:14,504
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s the same thing of how we think about income

430
00:16:14,260 –> 00:16:15,260
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

431
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[Tamiko Toland]: now i’m

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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you john

433
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[Tamiko Toland]: gonna be honest with you like rich people

434
00:16:17,638 –> 00:16:18,638
[Ramsey Smith]: s

435
00:16:18,104 –> 00:16:19,624
[Tamiko Toland]: are fine right

436
00:16:19,778 –> 00:16:20,978
[Ramsey Smith]: right they’re knowing somebody

437
00:16:20,024 –> 00:16:22,024
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s always somebody who’s willing to give them

438
00:16:22,184 –> 00:16:26,584
[Tamiko Toland]: advice they they have lots of access to advice but the people who truly benefit

439
00:16:22,498 –> 00:16:23,938
[Ramsey Smith]: why have that

440
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

441
00:16:27,544 –> 00:16:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: within a retirement plan are those individuals who

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[Paul Tyler]: how do i smoke but

443
00:16:31,624 –> 00:16:37,224
[Tamiko Toland]: otherwise have no access to advice or guidance or anything right and so the

444
00:16:37,304 –> 00:16:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: default all this entire structure that we’re talking about

445
00:16:41,600 –> 00:16:42,720
[Paul Tyler]: e really

446
00:16:41,600 –> 00:16:42,720
[Paul Tyler]: e really

447
00:16:41,604 –> 00:16:42,604
[Tamiko Toland]: is really

448
00:16:41,778 –> 00:16:43,218
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah sus

449
00:16:43,884 –> 00:16:44,884
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s

450
00:16:44,500 –> 00:16:45,500
[Paul Tyler]: i

451
00:16:44,744 –> 00:16:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: designed to help those individuals who are much more on the margins and if if you

452
00:16:51,164 –> 00:16:52,164
[Tamiko Toland]: have outside

453
00:16:51,900 –> 00:16:52,900
[Paul Tyler]: i like

454
00:16:52,264 –> 00:16:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: advice and your advice says no no no we have this different plan you don’t need

455
00:16:56,184 –> 00:17:00,024
[Tamiko Toland]: this you know we’ll put your money into something else that’s completely

456
00:17:00,104 –> 00:17:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: fine and that is how the

457
00:17:00,198 –> 00:17:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: why not

458
00:17:02,024 –> 00:17:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: q is structured it’s a default it’s not

459
00:17:02,098 –> 00:17:03,138
[Ramsey Smith]: out thirty

460
00:17:03,878 –> 00:17:04,878
[Ramsey Smith]: not

461
00:17:04,344 –> 00:17:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: like you’re not forced to stay in it right but but it needs to be

462
00:17:10,184 –> 00:17:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: a quality solution

463
00:17:12,824 –> 00:17:16,424
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals who may not be

464
00:17:16,038 –> 00:17:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: y

465
00:17:16,424 –> 00:17:21,304
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulating as much money in you know during their working years for retirement

466
00:17:21,460 –> 00:17:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: so

467
00:17:22,024 –> 00:17:27,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and who probably aren’t going to get other guidance right and so this is exactly

468
00:17:26,764 –> 00:17:27,764
[Tamiko Toland]: why

469
00:17:27,724 –> 00:17:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: so

470
00:17:27,780 –> 00:17:28,780
[Paul Tyler]: so

471
00:17:27,958 –> 00:17:28,958
[Ramsey Smith]: so

472
00:17:28,344 –> 00:17:29,544
[Tamiko Toland]: many people are

473
00:17:29,420 –> 00:17:30,420
[Paul Tyler]: pla

474
00:17:29,784 –> 00:17:32,264
[Tamiko Toland]: passionate about this that it’s not yes

475
00:17:32,004 –> 00:17:33,004
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean

476
00:17:32,020 –> 00:17:33,020
[Paul Tyler]: i

477
00:17:32,664 –> 00:17:33,704
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s it’s great like that

478
00:17:32,738 –> 00:17:34,178
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean like the

479
00:17:33,380 –> 00:17:34,380
[Paul Tyler]: like that

480
00:17:33,844 –> 00:17:34,844
[Tamiko Toland]: from an asset gathering

481
00:17:34,838 –> 00:17:35,838
[Ramsey Smith]: now

482
00:17:34,904 –> 00:17:38,664
[Tamiko Toland]: standpoint whatever you know servicing all these people but you know you get

483
00:17:38,364 –> 00:17:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: folks

484
00:17:38,918 –> 00:17:39,918
[Ramsey Smith]: smoke

485
00:17:39,224 –> 00:17:43,384
[Tamiko Toland]: like me who care deeply about it because you see this is a fantastic

486
00:17:43,238 –> 00:17:44,238
[Ramsey Smith]: not

487
00:17:43,464 –> 00:17:44,984
[Tamiko Toland]: way to reach

488
00:17:46,264 –> 00:17:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: so many americans in a way

489
00:17:47,798 –> 00:17:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: we

490
00:17:48,344 –> 00:17:50,424
[Tamiko Toland]: that the retail space is not going to

491
00:17:51,158 –> 00:17:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: so

492
00:17:51,300 –> 00:17:52,300
[Paul Tyler]: oh

493
00:17:52,018 –> 00:17:56,978
[Ramsey Smith]: okay this is this is very you know interesting interesting element of it because

494
00:17:58,178 –> 00:18:04,658
[Ramsey Smith]: we live in a world where where this the same three the esg acronym comes up a lot

495
00:18:05,138 –> 00:18:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: it comes up in investing it comes up certainly in board work i can tell you it

496
00:18:09,938 –> 00:18:11,938
[Ramsey Smith]: comes up in a lot of different places like esg

497
00:18:13,138 –> 00:18:14,498
[Ramsey Smith]: is is on the tip of

498
00:18:14,380 –> 00:18:15,380
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

499
00:18:14,498 –> 00:18:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: everybody’s tongues because it’s it’s

500
00:18:15,878 –> 00:18:16,878
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s

501
00:18:16,044 –> 00:18:17,044
[Tamiko Toland]: expensive

502
00:18:16,260 –> 00:18:17,260
[Paul Tyler]: what

503
00:18:16,658 –> 00:18:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: important in every aspect of business now

504
00:18:19,558 –> 00:18:20,558
[Ramsey Smith]: and you know one

505
00:18:20,100 –> 00:18:21,100
[Paul Tyler]: what

506
00:18:20,638 –> 00:18:21,638
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of sleeve of

507
00:18:21,278 –> 00:18:22,278
[Ramsey Smith]: esg

508
00:18:21,300 –> 00:18:22,300
[Paul Tyler]: yes

509
00:18:21,884 –> 00:18:22,884
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s pretty

510
00:18:22,338 –> 00:18:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s often talked about is banking to the un banked and you know here we’re

511
00:18:28,498 –> 00:18:34,418
[Ramsey Smith]: talking about i don’t have as neat a catch phrase as that but it’s sort of the it

512
00:18:34,498 –> 00:18:38,658
[Ramsey Smith]: is retirement income to the un income for lack of a better way

513
00:18:39,858 –> 00:18:41,858
[Ramsey Smith]: way to describe it but i’ve i very

514
00:18:41,780 –> 00:18:42,780
[Paul Tyler]: you

515
00:18:42,178 –> 00:18:45,698
[Ramsey Smith]: rarely heard it one described as an esg issue

516
00:18:46,818 –> 00:18:51,538
[Ramsey Smith]: and two i don’t really think i’ve heard any of the the current proponents of the

517
00:18:51,158 –> 00:18:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: space

518
00:18:52,518 –> 00:18:53,518
[Ramsey Smith]: uh you

519
00:18:53,298 –> 00:18:59,218
[Ramsey Smith]: know describing it that way as as opportunistically as everybody else is using

520
00:18:53,360 –> 00:18:56,240
[Paul Tyler]: it was like that way yeah

521
00:18:59,858 –> 00:19:04,738
[Ramsey Smith]: using that acronym everywhere else in the business world so what your thoughts on

522
00:19:04,738 –> 00:19:07,298
[Ramsey Smith]: there is that a missed opportunity cause i think it’s real

523
00:19:09,164 –> 00:19:10,164
[Tamiko Toland]: um

524
00:19:12,024 –> 00:19:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m not sure i mean i i think that i

525
00:19:13,958 –> 00:19:14,958
[Ramsey Smith]: i

526
00:19:14,424 –> 00:19:15,544
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly have heard other people

527
00:19:15,238 –> 00:19:16,238
[Ramsey Smith]: it

528
00:19:15,704 –> 00:19:18,984
[Tamiko Toland]: talk about i’m not the only one who has articulated it like that

529
00:19:18,598 –> 00:19:19,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

530
00:19:19,500 –> 00:19:20,500
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i

531
00:19:19,704 –> 00:19:22,584
[Tamiko Toland]: so i think there are other voices out there saying the same thing

532
00:19:23,544 –> 00:19:25,784
[Tamiko Toland]: and i definitely see that passion

533
00:19:23,600 –> 00:19:25,360
[Paul Tyler]: and i guess see that

534
00:19:26,824 –> 00:19:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: um among other stakeholders um

535
00:19:29,380 –> 00:19:30,380
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

536
00:19:30,024 –> 00:19:31,624
[Tamiko Toland]: you know is this the marketing opportunity

537
00:19:32,684 –> 00:19:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: i

538
00:19:32,980 –> 00:19:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

539
00:19:33,118 –> 00:19:34,118
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know

540
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how

541
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how

542
00:19:36,420 –> 00:19:37,420
[Paul Tyler]: how

543
00:19:38,264 –> 00:19:40,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the these solutions are going to be placed

544
00:19:41,300 –> 00:19:42,300
[Paul Tyler]: and

545
00:19:41,784 –> 00:19:42,824
[Tamiko Toland]: and that

546
00:19:43,724 –> 00:19:44,724
[Tamiko Toland]: the

547
00:19:43,980 –> 00:19:44,980
[Paul Tyler]: the can

548
00:19:44,084 –> 00:19:45,084
[Tamiko Toland]: mechanical

549
00:19:44,718 –> 00:19:45,718
[Ramsey Smith]: go back

550
00:19:44,984 –> 00:19:47,624
[Tamiko Toland]: factors the the choices

551
00:19:47,398 –> 00:19:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: this

552
00:19:47,784 –> 00:19:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that sponsors need to make

553
00:19:49,244 –> 00:19:50,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i

554
00:19:49,760 –> 00:19:52,320
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t think that that but i i think that

555
00:19:49,864 –> 00:19:52,824
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t think that that’s the thing but i do think that that drives

556
00:19:49,938 –> 00:19:52,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t think that that i think five

557
00:19:53,404 –> 00:19:54,404
[Tamiko Toland]: really

558
00:19:55,304 –> 00:19:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the legislative components right and the fact that in the regulatory

559
00:19:59,684 –> 00:20:00,684
[Tamiko Toland]: piece say we want

560
00:20:00,358 –> 00:20:01,358
[Ramsey Smith]: want be

561
00:20:00,664 –> 00:20:02,744
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this easier we w we and we

562
00:20:02,598 –> 00:20:03,598
[Ramsey Smith]: if one is

563
00:20:02,824 –> 00:20:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: want it to be safe so it’s

564
00:20:04,198 –> 00:20:05,198
[Ramsey Smith]: b

565
00:20:04,424 –> 00:20:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: balancing those interests out

566
00:20:05,638 –> 00:20:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: nine

567
00:20:06,184 –> 00:20:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: because you want to

568
00:20:07,438 –> 00:20:08,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what do you ask

569
00:20:07,624 –> 00:20:09,224
[Tamiko Toland]: increase access to all

570
00:20:09,180 –> 00:20:10,180
[Paul Tyler]: all the american

571
00:20:09,198 –> 00:20:10,198
[Ramsey Smith]: of america

572
00:20:09,384 –> 00:20:14,024
[Tamiko Toland]: these americans which is you know that’s a very good goal for our our government

573
00:20:14,824 –> 00:20:16,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know folks working there to be

574
00:20:16,500 –> 00:20:17,500
[Paul Tyler]: think

575
00:20:16,904 –> 00:20:21,144
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about and they also want to make sure that it’s done responsibly so you

576
00:20:21,100 –> 00:20:22,100
[Paul Tyler]: you know i i just

577
00:20:21,224 –> 00:20:23,144
[Tamiko Toland]: know i i think that that may be a more

578
00:20:21,298 –> 00:20:22,498
[Ramsey Smith]: you know i i think it’s that

579
00:20:23,478 –> 00:20:24,478
[Ramsey Smith]: well

580
00:20:23,704 –> 00:20:25,224
[Tamiko Toland]: relevant conversation there

581
00:20:24,820 –> 00:20:25,820
[Paul Tyler]: there

582
00:20:24,998 –> 00:20:25,998
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

583
00:20:25,764 –> 00:20:26,764
[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s a

584
00:20:26,318 –> 00:20:27,318
[Ramsey Smith]: the one i

585
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different

586
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different

587
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different

588
00:20:28,258 –> 00:20:29,378
[Ramsey Smith]: um you know

589
00:20:28,584 –> 00:20:30,744
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know like i say when it

590
00:20:30,598 –> 00:20:31,598
[Ramsey Smith]: something

591
00:20:30,904 –> 00:20:34,184
[Tamiko Toland]: comes to building these q solutions this

592
00:20:34,184 –> 00:20:39,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is a different way of thinking about income than we’re really accustomed to in

593
00:20:34,258 –> 00:20:35,698
[Ramsey Smith]: which is a different way

594
00:20:39,464 –> 00:20:41,464
[Tamiko Toland]: retail because you know when you have an individual

595
00:20:41,540 –> 00:20:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: white

596
00:20:41,864 –> 00:20:45,384
[Tamiko Toland]: client and you know what their needs are then you make selections that are really

597
00:20:45,284 –> 00:20:46,284
[Tamiko Toland]: much more

598
00:20:47,304 –> 00:20:53,704
[Tamiko Toland]: optimized for you know what their goals are right and so you can use these you

599
00:20:53,324 –> 00:20:54,324
[Tamiko Toland]: know

600
00:20:53,780 –> 00:20:54,780
[Paul Tyler]: i

601
00:20:54,044 –> 00:20:55,044
[Tamiko Toland]: products that are as

602
00:20:55,198 –> 00:20:56,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i know

603
00:20:55,304 –> 00:20:59,224
[Tamiko Toland]: we all know like so much of the annuity industry has become highly specialized

604
00:20:59,324 –> 00:21:00,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know you have

605
00:21:00,258 –> 00:21:01,618
[Ramsey Smith]: no that is

606
00:21:00,424 –> 00:21:03,144
[Tamiko Toland]: you know this benefit that’s torque one way

607
00:21:02,878 –> 00:21:03,878
[Ramsey Smith]: one way

608
00:21:03,304 –> 00:21:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and other benefit that’s toed in

609
00:21:04,838 –> 00:21:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: another way

610
00:21:05,144 –> 00:21:08,264
[Tamiko Toland]: another way and they are different use cases right and

611
00:21:08,580 –> 00:21:09,580
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

612
00:21:08,904 –> 00:21:13,384
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s to the benefit of the end client of making it more focused right and that

613
00:21:12,518 –> 00:21:13,518
[Ramsey Smith]: i

614
00:21:13,140 –> 00:21:14,140
[Paul Tyler]: that what

615
00:21:13,164 –> 00:21:14,164
[Tamiko Toland]: doesn’t apply

616
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:14,198
[Ramsey Smith]: think that a lot

617
00:21:15,064 –> 00:21:19,144
[Tamiko Toland]: right so much when you think about pda you’re not necessarily having a single

618
00:21:19,004 –> 00:21:20,004
[Tamiko Toland]: minded goal like

619
00:21:19,564 –> 00:21:20,564
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re

620
00:21:19,798 –> 00:21:20,798
[Ramsey Smith]: talk

621
00:21:19,860 –> 00:21:20,860
[Paul Tyler]: i my

622
00:21:20,264 –> 00:21:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: not trying to maximize income for every single person you have to balance out

623
00:21:24,198 –> 00:21:25,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i

624
00:21:24,664 –> 00:21:26,824
[Tamiko Toland]: those interests because some people are going to end

625
00:21:26,678 –> 00:21:27,678
[Ramsey Smith]: and i

626
00:21:26,984 –> 00:21:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: up at retirement not selecting that that benefit despite the fact that they’ve

627
00:21:31,544 –> 00:21:35,224
[Tamiko Toland]: paid into it whether it’s a decision made out of ignorance or they got diagnosed

628
00:21:35,224 –> 00:21:38,504
[Tamiko Toland]: with the terrible cancer right before they retired you know and they have

629
00:21:39,224 –> 00:21:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: different goals um for their their post working years

630
00:21:43,458 –> 00:21:44,498
[Ramsey Smith]: about art

631
00:21:43,604 –> 00:21:44,604
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there are

632
00:21:46,904 –> 00:21:48,824
[Tamiko Toland]: it is just a different problem to solve

633
00:21:49,078 –> 00:21:50,078
[Ramsey Smith]: g

634
00:21:49,284 –> 00:21:50,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right then

635
00:21:49,980 –> 00:21:50,980
[Paul Tyler]: wow

636
00:21:50,424 –> 00:21:53,304
[Tamiko Toland]: looking at it as you know client a

637
00:21:52,398 –> 00:21:53,398
[Ramsey Smith]: it was funny

638
00:21:53,740 –> 00:21:54,740
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so i

639
00:21:53,884 –> 00:21:54,884
[Tamiko Toland]: and

640
00:21:54,438 –> 00:21:55,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what

641
00:21:54,504 –> 00:21:55,864
[Tamiko Toland]: fitting solutions to that

642
00:21:55,220 –> 00:21:56,220
[Paul Tyler]: okay

643
00:21:55,558 –> 00:21:56,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what

644
00:21:56,000 –> 00:22:03,680
[Paul Tyler]: so here here’s okay you are the in command of you’re running the hr benefits for

645
00:22:03,700 –> 00:22:04,700
[Paul Tyler]: a target i

646
00:22:04,438 –> 00:22:05,438
[Ramsey Smith]: b

647
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:09,680
[Paul Tyler]: just took it take a job as uh you know somebody working in one of the stores i’m

648
00:22:09,760 –> 00:22:11,440
[Paul Tyler]: a assistant manager of a store

649
00:22:12,960 –> 00:22:16,640
[Paul Tyler]: how does how should the onboarding experience be when i fill at the application

650
00:22:18,000 –> 00:22:20,240
[Paul Tyler]: come to the point of okay set up your paycheck

651
00:22:21,520 –> 00:22:24,720
[Paul Tyler]: how much pal do you want to put into your four o one k o here’s the match

652
00:22:26,000 –> 00:22:30,000
[Paul Tyler]: how would you change that that setup for me to start putting money in there do i

653
00:22:30,080 –> 00:22:35,280
[Paul Tyler]: have a choice is there a default you know if you don’t say this paul you will get

654
00:22:35,920 –> 00:22:41,520
[Paul Tyler]: x percent of your savings in the four k and x percent is going to default into

655
00:22:41,540 –> 00:22:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: this income

656
00:22:43,060 –> 00:22:44,060
[Paul Tyler]: benefit

657
00:22:44,204 –> 00:22:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: well

658
00:22:44,678 –> 00:22:45,678
[Ramsey Smith]: that

659
00:22:44,904 –> 00:22:51,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the idea behind defaulting is that you don’t have to convince paul to sign

660
00:22:50,844 –> 00:22:51,844
[Tamiko Toland]: up

661
00:22:52,204 –> 00:22:53,204
[Tamiko Toland]: that you

662
00:22:54,024 –> 00:22:59,384
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t need to get educated about the benefits of of contributing to four o one k

663
00:22:59,624 –> 00:23:03,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the money goes in there you get your match and then you’re put into something

664
00:23:03,704 –> 00:23:07,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s suitable for you right and so conceptually yes that those are all

665
00:23:09,624 –> 00:23:10,984
[Tamiko Toland]: components of why

666
00:23:10,580 –> 00:23:11,580
[Paul Tyler]: why

667
00:23:11,064 –> 00:23:15,064
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re thinking so strongly about qa and not simply having sort of the

668
00:23:15,064 –> 00:23:17,304
[Tamiko Toland]: availability of options

669
00:23:18,664 –> 00:23:23,304
[Tamiko Toland]: before or at retirement that’s part of what the industry calls the retirement

670
00:23:23,464 –> 00:23:27,784
[Tamiko Toland]: tier right which is a range of different options to suit two different needs

671
00:23:27,724 –> 00:23:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: right

672
00:23:28,158 –> 00:23:29,158
[Ramsey Smith]: you could

673
00:23:28,504 –> 00:23:34,104
[Tamiko Toland]: but a lot of that is elective and not defaulted um you know it was interesting i

674
00:23:33,724 –> 00:23:34,724
[Tamiko Toland]: was

675
00:23:34,380 –> 00:23:35,380
[Paul Tyler]: out uh

676
00:23:34,424 –> 00:23:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: at the deci a innovation forum and

677
00:23:37,860 –> 00:23:38,860
[Paul Tyler]: oh

678
00:23:38,664 –> 00:23:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: somebody was presenting information about

679
00:23:42,264 –> 00:23:47,304
[Tamiko Toland]: engagement with plans and that defaulting is great for getting people into the

680
00:23:47,464 –> 00:23:50,664
[Tamiko Toland]: plan but people don’t engage with their plans as much when

681
00:23:50,340 –> 00:23:51,340
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

682
00:23:50,824 –> 00:23:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re simply defaulted right and so there’s kind of a tension between these

683
00:23:56,744 –> 00:23:57,864
[Tamiko Toland]: facts because you want

684
00:23:58,104 –> 00:24:00,744
[Tamiko Toland]: people to understand what they’re in and to perhaps

685
00:23:58,158 –> 00:23:59,158
[Ramsey Smith]: one one three

686
00:24:00,558 –> 00:24:01,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i watch

687
00:24:00,824 –> 00:24:04,744
[Tamiko Toland]: decide to increase their allocation right and so this is actually kind of a whole

688
00:24:04,824 –> 00:24:09,464
[Tamiko Toland]: other conversation around participant engagement that would also be beneficial

689
00:24:09,544 –> 00:24:11,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and also enhances because you know

690
00:24:11,460 –> 00:24:12,460
[Paul Tyler]: we

691
00:24:11,784 –> 00:24:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly people aren’t used to they use the idea

692
00:24:13,940 –> 00:24:14,940
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

693
00:24:14,504 –> 00:24:16,584
[Tamiko Toland]: of receiving income from their employer

694
00:24:17,484 –> 00:24:18,484
[Tamiko Toland]: through a pension

695
00:24:18,980 –> 00:24:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: but they’re not

696
00:24:19,224 –> 00:24:22,744
[Tamiko Toland]: but they’re not used to this as part of the four o one k because it’s it’s not a

697
00:24:22,824 –> 00:24:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: standard part of the landscape frankly you know relatively few plans even offer

698
00:24:27,624 –> 00:24:28,664
[Tamiko Toland]: it on on the

699
00:24:28,638 –> 00:24:29,638
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know

700
00:24:28,744 –> 00:24:30,584
[Tamiko Toland]: outbound you when you retire

701
00:24:31,164 –> 00:24:32,164
[Tamiko Toland]: but

702
00:24:31,680 –> 00:24:34,480
[Paul Tyler]: but you know i i wanna ask there’s

703
00:24:31,838 –> 00:24:32,838
[Ramsey Smith]: but you know i

704
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for

705
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for

706
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these

707
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these

708
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest

709
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest

710
00:24:46,104 –> 00:24:47,224
[Tamiko Toland]: um it you

711
00:24:46,820 –> 00:24:47,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

712
00:24:46,884 –> 00:24:47,884
[Tamiko Toland]: know s

713
00:24:47,798 –> 00:24:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: some sometimes

714
00:24:47,864 –> 00:24:50,104
[Tamiko Toland]: some some designs they may roll

715
00:24:49,838 –> 00:24:50,838
[Ramsey Smith]: wow

716
00:24:50,184 –> 00:24:52,424
[Tamiko Toland]: out but a lot of them you’re keeping

717
00:24:53,844 –> 00:24:54,844
[Tamiko Toland]: if not all the

718
00:24:54,358 –> 00:24:55,358
[Ramsey Smith]: all that

719
00:24:54,744 –> 00:24:57,704
[Tamiko Toland]: acids are bulk of them inside the plan so

720
00:24:57,940 –> 00:24:58,940
[Paul Tyler]: right

721
00:24:58,278 –> 00:24:59,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so

722
00:24:58,640 –> 00:25:01,360
[Paul Tyler]: amy sorry we just one follow up on that

723
00:25:03,760 –> 00:25:07,840
[Paul Tyler]: my experience has been it is so hard to change a form from an insurance company

724
00:25:08,080 –> 00:25:09,440
[Paul Tyler]: or a fourk provider

725
00:25:11,280 –> 00:25:15,200
[Paul Tyler]: do you have models sort of best language for introducing an income conversation

726
00:25:15,760 –> 00:25:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: because you know four hundred one thousand okay everybody kinda understands four

727
00:25:19,280 –> 00:25:23,600
[Paul Tyler]: on k well how old is paul tyler you know if i’m twenty one

728
00:25:24,960 –> 00:25:29,760
[Paul Tyler]: gee maybe i’m defaulting here but i should sort of hm maybe i take it down maybe

729
00:25:29,620 –> 00:25:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: i’m

730
00:25:31,280 –> 00:25:36,320
[Paul Tyler]: actually in my fifty seconds maybe i should like allocate that initially more i

731
00:25:36,320 –> 00:25:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: mean do you have models that say this is the language it should be there for so

732
00:25:41,120 –> 00:25:44,800
[Paul Tyler]: paul makes the best optimal decision when i set it up

733
00:25:46,564 –> 00:25:47,564
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah it’s a good question

734
00:25:47,324 –> 00:25:48,324
[Tamiko Toland]: and

735
00:25:47,398 –> 00:25:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: like you

736
00:25:47,620 –> 00:25:48,620
[Paul Tyler]: no

737
00:25:48,024 –> 00:25:52,664
[Tamiko Toland]: there aren’t models for it i mean the only model is you know i would say the

738
00:25:52,744 –> 00:25:55,624
[Tamiko Toland]: largest plan out there um if you look

739
00:25:55,300 –> 00:25:56,300
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

740
00:25:55,704 –> 00:25:59,864
[Tamiko Toland]: at rath on’s participant communications they do an excellent job

741
00:25:59,558 –> 00:26:00,558
[Ramsey Smith]: job

742
00:26:00,124 –> 00:26:01,124
[Tamiko Toland]: of

743
00:26:01,158 –> 00:26:02,158
[Ramsey Smith]: showing

744
00:26:01,224 –> 00:26:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: showing different personas of different folks who would want to

745
00:26:03,958 –> 00:26:04,958
[Ramsey Smith]: one

746
00:26:04,424 –> 00:26:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: stay in the plan or in in that uh guaranteed income option or

747
00:26:08,398 –> 00:26:09,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what else

748
00:26:08,684 –> 00:26:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: not right

749
00:26:10,524 –> 00:26:11,524
[Tamiko Toland]: but you know

750
00:26:11,384 –> 00:26:14,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i think part of the understanding of this is that there are also

751
00:26:11,458 –> 00:26:13,058
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i think more fun

752
00:26:14,100 –> 00:26:15,100
[Paul Tyler]: are

753
00:26:14,664 –> 00:26:18,024
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how how they work and at

754
00:26:14,738 –> 00:26:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: are watching house

755
00:26:17,798 –> 00:26:18,798
[Ramsey Smith]: that

756
00:26:17,804 –> 00:26:18,804
[Tamiko Toland]: what

757
00:26:18,300 –> 00:26:19,300
[Paul Tyler]: what point

758
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really

759
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really

760
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you

761
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you

762
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age

763
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age

764
00:26:28,780 –> 00:26:29,780
[Paul Tyler]: seventies

765
00:26:30,164 –> 00:26:31,164
[Tamiko Toland]: you have

766
00:26:30,620 –> 00:26:31,620
[Paul Tyler]: i like

767
00:26:30,824 –> 00:26:32,344
[Tamiko Toland]: a glide path into income

768
00:26:33,040 –> 00:26:34,880
[Paul Tyler]: it’s just like you have a good life

769
00:26:33,224 –> 00:26:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: just like you would have a a glide path with a regular target day fund and so

770
00:26:37,084 –> 00:26:38,084
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s

771
00:26:37,300 –> 00:26:38,300
[Paul Tyler]: how

772
00:26:37,784 –> 00:26:41,064
[Tamiko Toland]: how a lot of them actually work um so it’s

773
00:26:42,084 –> 00:26:43,084
[Tamiko Toland]: you know when you think about

774
00:26:43,118 –> 00:26:44,118
[Ramsey Smith]: about the

775
00:26:43,224 –> 00:26:46,744
[Tamiko Toland]: the the range of different participants and their ages it

776
00:26:46,340 –> 00:26:47,340
[Paul Tyler]: you

777
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty

778
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty

779
00:26:46,898 –> 00:26:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: it maybe holiday

780
00:26:50,504 –> 00:26:51,864
[Tamiko Toland]: because you’re not going to be

781
00:26:52,598 –> 00:26:53,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

782
00:26:52,744 –> 00:26:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: investing in it yet you know you’re not going to be accumulating that future

783
00:26:55,764 –> 00:26:56,764
[Tamiko Toland]: income

784
00:26:57,244 –> 00:26:58,244
[Tamiko Toland]: yet

785
00:26:57,478 –> 00:26:58,478
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

786
00:26:58,264 –> 00:26:59,544
[Tamiko Toland]: knowing that that is something that

787
00:26:59,220 –> 00:27:00,220
[Paul Tyler]: y

788
00:26:59,704 –> 00:27:00,824
[Tamiko Toland]: will happen in the future

789
00:27:00,478 –> 00:27:01,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the future

790
00:27:01,484 –> 00:27:02,484
[Tamiko Toland]: can be quite

791
00:27:01,860 –> 00:27:02,860
[Paul Tyler]: we

792
00:27:02,424 –> 00:27:06,264
[Tamiko Toland]: reassuring to employees and it would be potentially an inducement to

793
00:27:05,860 –> 00:27:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: zero

794
00:27:06,264 –> 00:27:10,184
[Tamiko Toland]: stay at a company if you were considering you know going somewhere else so i

795
00:27:09,980 –> 00:27:10,980
[Paul Tyler]: ninety nine

796
00:27:10,238 –> 00:27:11,238
[Ramsey Smith]: ninety nine by

797
00:27:10,324 –> 00:27:11,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i could see

798
00:27:11,740 –> 00:27:12,740
[Paul Tyler]: i get

799
00:27:12,184 –> 00:27:14,984
[Tamiko Toland]: again this goes more to the participants like

800
00:27:14,580 –> 00:27:15,580
[Paul Tyler]: like

801
00:27:15,144 –> 00:27:21,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the idea of income you know uh mindset as opposed to this is beneficial for the

802
00:27:20,964 –> 00:27:21,964
[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors i

803
00:27:21,460 –> 00:27:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

804
00:27:22,024 –> 00:27:23,864
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s beneficial for everybody frankly

805
00:27:24,518 –> 00:27:25,518
[Ramsey Smith]: so

806
00:27:25,120 –> 00:27:26,560
[Paul Tyler]: no i wanted to say that before

807
00:27:25,138 –> 00:27:29,298
[Ramsey Smith]: i wanted to pick up on what you were saying about staying in plan

808
00:27:30,338 –> 00:27:34,338
[Ramsey Smith]: and this is something that’s that’s been a particular interest to me and

809
00:27:35,538 –> 00:27:37,778
[Ramsey Smith]: i want to hear what you think about what the potential

810
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with

811
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with

812
00:27:39,060 –> 00:27:40,060
[Paul Tyler]: she

813
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know

814
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know

815
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be

816
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be

817
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might

818
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might

819
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with

820
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with

821
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just

822
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just

823
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like

824
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like

825
00:28:14,738 –> 00:28:18,178
[Ramsey Smith]: why where are we now in a world where maybe they want to keep people in plan for

826
00:28:17,958 –> 00:28:18,958
[Ramsey Smith]: longer

827
00:28:19,404 –> 00:28:20,404
[Tamiko Toland]: well

828
00:28:20,000 –> 00:28:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: what do you breakfast

829
00:28:20,024 –> 00:28:24,664
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they are recognizing the advantages of scale right you keep more folks in

830
00:28:24,744 –> 00:28:28,904
[Tamiko Toland]: your you plan you have larger assets and then you were able to drive down costs i

831
00:28:28,984 –> 00:28:34,424
[Tamiko Toland]: mean that that’s a that’s a pretty basic dynamic from a pricing perspective

832
00:28:36,264 –> 00:28:39,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and like i say there’s blended models and what have you in terms of like what

833
00:28:39,784 –> 00:28:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: happens with the actual income component um

834
00:28:43,704 –> 00:28:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: and i i think there’s there’s always

835
00:28:46,000 –> 00:28:47,840
[Paul Tyler]: we we settled from

836
00:28:46,264 –> 00:28:49,704
[Tamiko Toland]: there are much more subtle conversations and probably differences among different

837
00:28:49,864 –> 00:28:52,504
[Tamiko Toland]: types of sponsors um you

838
00:28:52,124 –> 00:28:53,124
[Tamiko Toland]: know

839
00:28:52,180 –> 00:28:53,180
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

840
00:28:52,278 –> 00:28:53,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so

841
00:28:52,904 –> 00:28:56,984
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the traditional mindset has really been like you know oh this

842
00:28:57,380 –> 00:28:58,380
[Paul Tyler]: it

843
00:28:57,398 –> 00:28:58,398
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

844
00:28:57,624 –> 00:28:58,744
[Tamiko Toland]: participant isn’t

845
00:28:59,300 –> 00:29:00,300
[Paul Tyler]: even a work

846
00:28:59,304 –> 00:29:02,344
[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t a worker here anymore so we just we want

847
00:29:01,940 –> 00:29:02,940
[Paul Tyler]: what

848
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship

849
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship

850
00:29:06,844 –> 00:29:07,844
[Tamiko Toland]: um but

851
00:29:07,220 –> 00:29:08,220
[Paul Tyler]: like

852
00:29:07,718 –> 00:29:08,718
[Ramsey Smith]: but you

853
00:29:07,784 –> 00:29:11,784
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there there are advantages too frankly for the worker

854
00:29:12,664 –> 00:29:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that you know this i because it is a fiduciary relationship

855
00:29:12,720 –> 00:29:14,720
[Paul Tyler]: right but you could be

856
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get

857
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get

858
00:29:17,378 –> 00:29:18,738
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah maybe you

859
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so

860
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so

861
00:29:22,898 –> 00:29:26,178
[Ramsey Smith]: so sorry i wanna just just follow up on this paul so

862
00:29:26,838 –> 00:29:27,838
[Ramsey Smith]: so

863
00:29:27,420 –> 00:29:28,420
[Paul Tyler]: what weekend

864
00:29:27,458 –> 00:29:32,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m with you i’m with you and i and i i agree a it’s it’s it’s part and parcel

865
00:29:32,580 –> 00:29:33,580
[Paul Tyler]: what

866
00:29:32,978 –> 00:29:37,218
[Ramsey Smith]: why this is an attractive opportunity for plan sponsors and frankly for asset

867
00:29:37,298 –> 00:29:38,578
[Ramsey Smith]: managers and carriers

868
00:29:39,778 –> 00:29:43,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the one question though was so at that at that point of transition so you are a

869
00:29:43,938 –> 00:29:49,698
[Ramsey Smith]: fiduciary and you now want somebody to stay in plan you know after age sixty five

870
00:29:50,418 –> 00:29:54,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but now this person in theory can go a lot of other places right they can roll

871
00:29:54,498 –> 00:29:56,178
[Ramsey Smith]: over and go to you know any number

872
00:29:57,298 –> 00:30:03,938
[Ramsey Smith]: of sort of established you know asset manager sort of providers or broker broker

873
00:30:04,018 –> 00:30:09,138
[Ramsey Smith]: dealer providers who have these entire suites of services and so in some sense

874
00:30:09,378 –> 00:30:12,898
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re telling the person well you should stay here with what we offer the

875
00:30:13,058 –> 00:30:16,898
[Ramsey Smith]: service offering we have which may or may not be as expansive as all the other

876
00:30:17,058 –> 00:30:22,018
[Ramsey Smith]: things that they might do like is that is there a fiduciary responsibility there

877
00:30:22,258 –> 00:30:27,538
[Ramsey Smith]: that that is that is also quite different literally at the point of at the point

878
00:30:27,698 –> 00:30:31,698
[Ramsey Smith]: of transition and not just not just managing but but basically saying please stay

879
00:30:31,638 –> 00:30:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: as opposed to going

880
00:30:33,644 –> 00:30:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah and i

881
00:30:34,100 –> 00:30:35,100
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

882
00:30:34,344 –> 00:30:36,344
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know that the rhetoric is you should stay

883
00:30:37,118 –> 00:30:38,118
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah right

884
00:30:37,260 –> 00:30:38,260
[Paul Tyler]: i think they’re

885
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve

886
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve

887
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with

888
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with

889
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the

890
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the

891
00:30:46,504 –> 00:30:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: with some some degree of guidance um or if that’s independent of that um and

892
00:30:51,684 –> 00:30:52,684
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s just information

893
00:30:53,544 –> 00:30:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s conveyed i mean there are a lot of

894
00:30:55,398 –> 00:30:56,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what

895
00:30:55,864 –> 00:30:57,544
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how to do that but i

896
00:30:57,420 –> 00:30:58,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think that

897
00:30:57,704 –> 00:31:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the premise that it’s you should say because we want to keep your assets

898
00:31:02,104 –> 00:31:03,304
[Tamiko Toland]: in plan it is

899
00:31:03,544 –> 00:31:08,824
[Tamiko Toland]: probably not the way that i would think about it and also you know the rollover

900
00:31:03,600 –> 00:31:06,720
[Paul Tyler]: probably no week i about it i it also

901
00:31:09,064 –> 00:31:10,744
[Tamiko Toland]: situation right now is in flux

902
00:31:10,838 –> 00:31:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

903
00:31:11,224 –> 00:31:15,304
[Tamiko Toland]: and so the relative ease with which that can happen is like that

904
00:31:15,378 –> 00:31:17,618
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s i think that’s very important

905
00:31:16,000 –> 00:31:17,760
[Paul Tyler]: i think that that works

906
00:31:16,024 –> 00:31:17,944
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that’s a at question so

907
00:31:18,980 –> 00:31:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: very

908
00:31:19,464 –> 00:31:24,424
[Tamiko Toland]: there is more reason for the sponsors to be offering like good

909
00:31:25,704 –> 00:31:27,384
[Tamiko Toland]: options within their plans

910
00:31:28,164 –> 00:31:29,164
[Tamiko Toland]: right um

911
00:31:29,944 –> 00:31:32,584
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ll we’ll just see we’ll see how things evolve it’s just going to say you

912
00:31:32,664 –> 00:31:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: know adoptions not quick that and that’s reality

913
00:31:35,440 –> 00:31:36,560
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m trying to think if i

914
00:31:35,698 –> 00:31:40,338
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s just hard to figure out whether whether the new rollover rules create more

915
00:31:40,498 –> 00:31:45,458
[Ramsey Smith]: problems for the people that are trying to be rolled over into right or if they

916
00:31:45,060 –> 00:31:46,060
[Paul Tyler]: so

917
00:31:45,618 –> 00:31:51,298
[Ramsey Smith]: also create similar challenges for for for somebody that says don’t roll out

918
00:31:51,718 –> 00:31:52,718
[Ramsey Smith]: right that’s

919
00:31:53,858 –> 00:31:58,498
[Ramsey Smith]: these are open issues but uh it’s the complexity the complexity is striking to me

920
00:31:58,800 –> 00:32:03,760
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i think for our listeners who are independent agents or advisors

921
00:32:05,200 –> 00:32:10,240
[Paul Tyler]: you know the plus is the employers have started that income conversation

922
00:32:11,078 –> 00:32:12,078
[Ramsey Smith]: so

923
00:32:11,120 –> 00:32:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: temco in a way that they at least start to understand they all understood asset

924
00:32:15,520 –> 00:32:19,840
[Paul Tyler]: allocation now they’re starting to understand income rams you brought up a really

925
00:32:20,000 –> 00:32:24,080
[Paul Tyler]: good question which is wow this would be really difficult to roll over you know

926
00:32:24,160 –> 00:32:25,600
[Paul Tyler]: we already have some some

927
00:32:26,640 –> 00:32:31,520
[Paul Tyler]: you know rules from the dol you know coming in to making it very difficult to do

928
00:32:31,580 –> 00:32:32,580
[Paul Tyler]: this properly but

929
00:32:34,560 –> 00:32:38,080
[Paul Tyler]: now you i’ve got a little bit of tension you know with some of the plan providers

930
00:32:38,800 –> 00:32:39,840
[Paul Tyler]: and where that money’s going

931
00:32:43,804 –> 00:32:44,804
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that would

932
00:32:44,420 –> 00:32:45,420
[Paul Tyler]: we

933
00:32:44,824 –> 00:32:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: be more true if we

934
00:32:45,700 –> 00:32:46,700
[Paul Tyler]: had

935
00:32:46,104 –> 00:32:49,784
[Tamiko Toland]: had current wider adoption of lifetime income within

936
00:32:49,540 –> 00:32:50,540
[Paul Tyler]: like

937
00:32:49,864 –> 00:32:52,184
[Tamiko Toland]: plants and it’s just that it’s it’s not significant

938
00:32:53,224 –> 00:32:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: right we we need to see more of it and

939
00:32:56,364 –> 00:32:57,364
[Tamiko Toland]: it

940
00:32:58,284 –> 00:32:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: the

941
00:32:58,660 –> 00:32:59,660
[Paul Tyler]: like

942
00:32:58,904 –> 00:33:01,624
[Tamiko Toland]: cycle of getting things adopted is very

943
00:33:01,380 –> 00:33:02,380
[Paul Tyler]: very different

944
00:33:01,784 –> 00:33:06,824
[Tamiko Toland]: different from simply selling somebody an annuity in the retail space right so i

945
00:33:07,544 –> 00:33:09,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i don’t see that as being a

946
00:33:10,424 –> 00:33:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: a present issue and we don’t know actually what will ultimately happen as far as

947
00:33:16,184 –> 00:33:21,784
[Tamiko Toland]: rollovers out of plans so i you know we can we can speculate we want about that

948
00:33:21,220 –> 00:33:22,220
[Paul Tyler]: about that

949
00:33:23,040 –> 00:33:24,480
[Paul Tyler]: i never said what

950
00:33:23,064 –> 00:33:26,904
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that a lot of this conversation frankly and i’ve i’ve said this

951
00:33:27,064 –> 00:33:32,664
[Tamiko Toland]: whole time and with uh the lifetime income illustrations that are going to be

952
00:33:32,744 –> 00:33:35,064
[Tamiko Toland]: peering on people’s four o one k statements

953
00:33:35,484 –> 00:33:36,484
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s

954
00:33:35,580 –> 00:33:36,580
[Paul Tyler]: i know

955
00:33:35,878 –> 00:33:36,878
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s all

956
00:33:36,184 –> 00:33:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: all of an opportunity for retail right

957
00:33:38,998 –> 00:33:39,998
[Ramsey Smith]: dr

958
00:33:39,624 –> 00:33:41,224
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know when you see

959
00:33:40,900 –> 00:33:41,900
[Paul Tyler]: see oh

960
00:33:40,924 –> 00:33:41,924
[Tamiko Toland]: oh

961
00:33:41,544 –> 00:33:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i my four o one k could turn into this

962
00:33:41,618 –> 00:33:43,298
[Ramsey Smith]: oh i like he’s good

963
00:33:44,598 –> 00:33:45,598
[Ramsey Smith]: your

964
00:33:44,724 –> 00:33:45,724
[Tamiko Toland]: guaranteed income

965
00:33:46,844 –> 00:33:47,844
[Tamiko Toland]: yet

966
00:33:47,060 –> 00:33:48,060
[Paul Tyler]: they

967
00:33:47,464 –> 00:33:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s literally no way to possibly do that within my existing plan

968
00:33:50,980 –> 00:33:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: break

969
00:33:51,324 –> 00:33:52,324
[Tamiko Toland]: right so when

970
00:33:53,544 –> 00:33:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: when you you you run into this logistical challenge

971
00:33:56,664 –> 00:34:00,584
[Tamiko Toland]: but you start thinking about what to do with your retirement savings in a

972
00:33:56,720 –> 00:33:58,080
[Paul Tyler]: like think about

973
00:34:00,664 –> 00:34:03,064
[Tamiko Toland]: different way you know like i say i think that that is a

974
00:34:02,660 –> 00:34:03,660
[Paul Tyler]: g

975
00:34:03,144 –> 00:34:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: great opportunity in the face of some potential

976
00:34:06,500 –> 00:34:07,500
[Paul Tyler]: right

977
00:34:06,984 –> 00:34:12,584
[Tamiko Toland]: compliance challenges right so there’s a lot of forces at play right now for sure

978
00:34:13,440 –> 00:34:14,560
[Paul Tyler]: now there are a

979
00:34:14,118 –> 00:34:15,118
[Ramsey Smith]: are

980
00:34:14,640 –> 00:34:18,720
[Paul Tyler]: large number of big plans like you described like raytheon with

981
00:34:20,140 –> 00:34:21,140
[Paul Tyler]: good hr

982
00:34:20,598 –> 00:34:21,598
[Ramsey Smith]: t

983
00:34:20,900 –> 00:34:21,900
[Paul Tyler]: benefits

984
00:34:22,880 –> 00:34:28,320
[Paul Tyler]: professionals tremendous support from from advisors for the plan but they are

985
00:34:28,480 –> 00:34:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: like a lot more small plants with fewer participants

986
00:34:32,684 –> 00:34:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: just

987
00:34:34,000 –> 00:34:39,120
[Paul Tyler]: tim k do you think the equation or how sponsors are going to think about it will

988
00:34:39,280 –> 00:34:42,560
[Paul Tyler]: change when you start to go down and maybe you only have ten employees maybe have

989
00:34:42,720 –> 00:34:47,680
[Paul Tyler]: fifteen employees um do you think the adoption challenge will be any different or

990
00:34:47,920 –> 00:34:51,760
[Paul Tyler]: will it’ll be just effectively same set of considerations

991
00:34:53,484 –> 00:34:54,484
[Tamiko Toland]: well i think you know

992
00:34:56,344 –> 00:35:00,664
[Tamiko Toland]: really what’s going to happen is we’re going to see an increase in adoption right

993
00:35:00,844 –> 00:35:01,844
[Tamiko Toland]: it it

994
00:35:01,260 –> 00:35:02,260
[Paul Tyler]: eating

995
00:35:01,544 –> 00:35:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is going to happen for sure is it is happening right now but

996
00:35:04,980 –> 00:35:05,980
[Paul Tyler]: what

997
00:35:05,078 –> 00:35:06,078
[Ramsey Smith]: what

998
00:35:05,204 –> 00:35:06,204
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s um

999
00:35:06,100 –> 00:35:07,100
[Paul Tyler]: that

1000
00:35:06,504 –> 00:35:12,344
[Tamiko Toland]: as that picks up i think it will make um make it more of a competitive issue for

1001
00:35:12,044 –> 00:35:13,044
[Tamiko Toland]: than

1002
00:35:12,260 –> 00:35:13,260
[Paul Tyler]: that

1003
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all

1004
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all

1005
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be

1006
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be

1007
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly

1008
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly

1009
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more

1010
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more

1011
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons

1012
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons

1013
00:35:35,064 –> 00:35:38,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ve seen availability for smaller plans but then adoptions low because

1014
00:35:38,364 –> 00:35:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re not necessarily they

1015
00:35:39,398 –> 00:35:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1016
00:35:39,864 –> 00:35:44,664
[Tamiko Toland]: may include it in the plan but it’s not the qa and so like that’s

1017
00:35:44,824 –> 00:35:47,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s like the big shift i think for everyone and and we

1018
00:35:44,898 –> 00:35:46,418
[Ramsey Smith]: like that that’s like the

1019
00:35:44,940 –> 00:35:45,940
[Paul Tyler]: not se

1020
00:35:47,944 –> 00:35:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: whether that’s an appropriate choice for a small sponsor that’s

1021
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:49,280
[Paul Tyler]: it was a hurry

1022
00:35:50,980 –> 00:35:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

1023
00:35:51,144 –> 00:35:52,264
[Tamiko Toland]: a different question i i’m

1024
00:35:52,620 –> 00:35:53,620
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m not think it is

1025
00:35:52,664 –> 00:35:54,184
[Tamiko Toland]: not saying it is or isn’t um

1026
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees

1027
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees

1028
00:35:54,960 –> 00:35:57,360
[Paul Tyler]: oh but i think i think about

1029
00:36:00,024 –> 00:36:01,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re gonna be thinking about their

1030
00:36:00,900 –> 00:36:01,900
[Paul Tyler]: saturday

1031
00:36:01,224 –> 00:36:03,384
[Tamiko Toland]: needs really differently and much more

1032
00:36:05,144 –> 00:36:10,344
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals and you know then let’s think about peps and and what have

1033
00:36:10,044 –> 00:36:11,044
[Tamiko Toland]: you

1034
00:36:10,740 –> 00:36:11,740
[Paul Tyler]: like

1035
00:36:10,804 –> 00:36:11,804
[Tamiko Toland]: but um

1036
00:36:12,404 –> 00:36:13,404
[Tamiko Toland]: you know it

1037
00:36:12,844 –> 00:36:13,844
[Tamiko Toland]: like

1038
00:36:13,060 –> 00:36:14,060
[Paul Tyler]: like

1039
00:36:13,138 –> 00:36:15,058
[Ramsey Smith]: you know it’s like a different type of story

1040
00:36:13,464 –> 00:36:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: i say it’s a different set of considerations in the space

1041
00:36:15,460 –> 00:36:16,460
[Paul Tyler]: see

1042
00:36:16,404 –> 00:36:17,404
[Tamiko Toland]: and that

1043
00:36:16,980 –> 00:36:17,980
[Paul Tyler]: that one

1044
00:36:17,138 –> 00:36:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: and c sp

1045
00:36:17,224 –> 00:36:22,184
[Tamiko Toland]: learning curve which is one of the reasons that you know we really uh wanted to

1046
00:36:21,844 –> 00:36:22,844
[Tamiko Toland]: see the

1047
00:36:22,220 –> 00:36:23,220
[Paul Tyler]: you like

1048
00:36:22,504 –> 00:36:24,024
[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income consortium come

1049
00:36:23,700 –> 00:36:24,700
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

1050
00:36:24,184 –> 00:36:28,344
[Tamiko Toland]: together because we can get the education out there you know it’s a large group

1051
00:36:28,584 –> 00:36:30,344
[Tamiko Toland]: of very very different solution

1052
00:36:30,744 –> 00:36:32,024
[Tamiko Toland]: providers that are

1053
00:36:31,040 –> 00:36:32,240
[Paul Tyler]: was saturd

1054
00:36:31,638 –> 00:36:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1055
00:36:32,264 –> 00:36:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: you know really deciding that it’s more important for them to work in concert

1056
00:36:38,678 –> 00:36:39,678
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1057
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education

1058
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education

1059
00:36:42,744 –> 00:36:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and to reduce some of the the compliance hurdles

1060
00:36:47,118 –> 00:36:48,118
[Ramsey Smith]: so how

1061
00:36:47,780 –> 00:36:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: how do you think about it

1062
00:36:47,858 –> 00:36:52,658
[Ramsey Smith]: do you think about you know the mandate of of this new organization versus there

1063
00:36:52,738 –> 00:36:56,018
[Ramsey Smith]: are some other educational organizations in the space right

1064
00:36:55,964 –> 00:36:56,964
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah

1065
00:36:56,738 –> 00:37:00,338
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s the alliance for lifelong income there’s limma the all friends of the

1066
00:37:00,198 –> 00:37:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: show by the way

1067
00:37:01,644 –> 00:37:02,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah

1068
00:37:03,298 –> 00:37:05,698
[Ramsey Smith]: uh curious how like you view

1069
00:37:06,738 –> 00:37:10,498
[Ramsey Smith]: the mandate of this consortium as being

1070
00:37:10,204 –> 00:37:11,204
[Tamiko Toland]: so

1071
00:37:10,658 –> 00:37:14,898
[Ramsey Smith]: different or what’s the sort of unique element that you guys are focusing on

1072
00:37:16,338 –> 00:37:19,938
[Ramsey Smith]: is it the complete focus on this one particular space is there anything else

1073
00:37:20,098 –> 00:37:21,138
[Ramsey Smith]: about it stylistically

1074
00:37:22,738 –> 00:37:25,378
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s part of your mo that you can share with us

1075
00:37:26,204 –> 00:37:27,204
[Tamiko Toland]: sure

1076
00:37:26,780 –> 00:37:27,780
[Paul Tyler]: sure i mean i think

1077
00:37:26,904 –> 00:37:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i you know i think you

1078
00:37:28,984 –> 00:37:31,544
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re also very friendly with the other

1079
00:37:29,040 –> 00:37:31,920
[Paul Tyler]: we’re also great friends the other one

1080
00:37:31,878 –> 00:37:32,878
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1081
00:37:31,884 –> 00:37:32,884
[Tamiko Toland]: organizations out there

1082
00:37:33,964 –> 00:37:34,964
[Tamiko Toland]: and

1083
00:37:34,598 –> 00:37:35,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and yeah

1084
00:37:34,604 –> 00:37:35,604
[Tamiko Toland]: yes

1085
00:37:35,140 –> 00:37:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: get married

1086
00:37:35,384 –> 00:37:37,944
[Tamiko Toland]: education is a component of what we’re doing

1087
00:37:39,064 –> 00:37:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: but we’re not an educational organization we’re we’re actually our

1088
00:37:42,460 –> 00:37:43,460
[Paul Tyler]: mm hm

1089
00:37:42,804 –> 00:37:43,804
[Tamiko Toland]: goal is commercial

1090
00:37:44,078 –> 00:37:45,078
[Ramsey Smith]: there we go

1091
00:37:44,504 –> 00:37:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and commercially we want to see

1092
00:37:48,104 –> 00:37:50,504
[Tamiko Toland]: broader adoption of these solutions and

1093
00:37:50,420 –> 00:37:51,420
[Paul Tyler]: so it

1094
00:37:50,664 –> 00:37:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: so it’s a commercial

1095
00:37:52,824 –> 00:37:54,904
[Tamiko Toland]: look at the problem not simply throwing out

1096
00:37:54,678 –> 00:37:55,678
[Ramsey Smith]: got

1097
00:37:55,064 –> 00:37:58,184
[Tamiko Toland]: education but education saying okay well what are the challenges how

1098
00:37:58,140 –> 00:37:59,140
[Paul Tyler]: how c

1099
00:37:58,264 –> 00:37:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: can we help close those gaps

1100
00:37:59,844 –> 00:38:00,844
[Tamiko Toland]: and then

1101
00:38:00,320 –> 00:38:02,000
[Paul Tyler]: and then where are their an

1102
00:38:00,398 –> 00:38:01,398
[Ramsey Smith]: and we

1103
00:38:00,584 –> 00:38:05,224
[Tamiko Toland]: you know where are their actual like logistical adoption issues like say with the

1104
00:38:05,304 –> 00:38:08,744
[Tamiko Toland]: record keepers right ’cause the record keepers are the ones that

1105
00:38:08,340 –> 00:38:09,340
[Paul Tyler]: that

1106
00:38:08,978 –> 00:38:10,098
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah like you

1107
00:38:09,224 –> 00:38:11,064
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly are holding the keys on this

1108
00:38:11,380 –> 00:38:12,380
[Paul Tyler]: oh

1109
00:38:11,784 –> 00:38:13,304
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately right

1110
00:38:13,220 –> 00:38:14,220
[Paul Tyler]: and

1111
00:38:13,624 –> 00:38:14,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know they

1112
00:38:14,804 –> 00:38:15,804
[Tamiko Toland]: are they are

1113
00:38:14,880 –> 00:38:16,080
[Paul Tyler]: they they are not

1114
00:38:15,478 –> 00:38:16,478
[Ramsey Smith]: they are

1115
00:38:15,864 –> 00:38:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: not jumping into the pool

1116
00:38:18,924 –> 00:38:19,924
[Tamiko Toland]: right

1117
00:38:19,318 –> 00:38:20,318
[Ramsey Smith]: spray

1118
00:38:19,784 –> 00:38:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: and so you know

1119
00:38:20,660 –> 00:38:21,660
[Paul Tyler]: got

1120
00:38:20,724 –> 00:38:21,724
[Tamiko Toland]: that is

1121
00:38:23,224 –> 00:38:27,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s a concern that we’re all listening to and we just want to make sure that all

1122
00:38:27,384 –> 00:38:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: the dots are lining up

1123
00:38:29,544 –> 00:38:32,104
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this a reality and we want to hear from

1124
00:38:33,304 –> 00:38:35,464
[Tamiko Toland]: from the folks that are are really in the front

1125
00:38:35,140 –> 00:38:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: why

1126
00:38:35,544 –> 00:38:36,824
[Tamiko Toland]: lines and

1127
00:38:36,740 –> 00:38:37,740
[Paul Tyler]: you

1128
00:38:36,984 –> 00:38:40,664
[Tamiko Toland]: hearing the objections dealing with those challenges to help

1129
00:38:40,260 –> 00:38:41,260
[Paul Tyler]: help

1130
00:38:40,904 –> 00:38:42,344
[Tamiko Toland]: solve those challenges so

1131
00:38:42,980 –> 00:38:43,980
[Paul Tyler]: where you

1132
00:38:43,064 –> 00:38:46,504
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re just in year one right of the consortium so we’re just

1133
00:38:46,744 –> 00:38:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: establishing really the basics and then that work will continue and one of the

1134
00:38:46,838 –> 00:38:47,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1135
00:38:50,564 –> 00:38:51,564
[Tamiko Toland]: issues too is

1136
00:38:51,078 –> 00:38:52,078
[Ramsey Smith]: two

1137
00:38:51,544 –> 00:38:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: like how do you compare these different solutions and how do you make a selection

1138
00:38:56,584 –> 00:39:00,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and that’s something that that we’re working on from an analytical perspective

1139
00:39:01,064 –> 00:39:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that saying well what kind of quantitative support is there the conclusion

1140
00:39:05,564 –> 00:39:06,564
[Tamiko Toland]: is

1141
00:39:05,804 –> 00:39:06,804
[Tamiko Toland]: never

1142
00:39:05,860 –> 00:39:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: never

1143
00:39:06,278 –> 00:39:07,278
[Ramsey Smith]: never did

1144
00:39:06,664 –> 00:39:07,784
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s one best

1145
00:39:08,684 –> 00:39:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: solution

1146
00:39:09,964 –> 00:39:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: right there

1147
00:39:10,738 –> 00:39:12,498
[Ramsey Smith]: like they need to work different

1148
00:39:10,984 –> 00:39:12,824
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions are to work differently in different

1149
00:39:12,660 –> 00:39:13,660
[Paul Tyler]: we

1150
00:39:12,804 –> 00:39:13,804
[Tamiko Toland]: ways and

1151
00:39:13,598 –> 00:39:14,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and was very

1152
00:39:13,784 –> 00:39:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: what’s very important is for people to have some quantitative basis to say well

1153
00:39:17,398 –> 00:39:18,398
[Ramsey Smith]: people

1154
00:39:17,884 –> 00:39:18,884
[Tamiko Toland]: this is better in this

1155
00:39:18,838 –> 00:39:19,838
[Ramsey Smith]: the car

1156
00:39:18,904 –> 00:39:20,664
[Tamiko Toland]: regard and then but this

1157
00:39:20,744 –> 00:39:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: one’s better in this regard what works best for for our

1158
00:39:20,798 –> 00:39:21,798
[Ramsey Smith]: is instead of

1159
00:39:24,100 –> 00:39:25,100
[Paul Tyler]: r

1160
00:39:24,924 –> 00:39:25,924
[Tamiko Toland]: you know

1161
00:39:25,380 –> 00:39:26,380
[Paul Tyler]: what

1162
00:39:25,704 –> 00:39:27,224
[Tamiko Toland]: worker population and

1163
00:39:27,300 –> 00:39:28,300
[Paul Tyler]: that

1164
00:39:27,544 –> 00:39:30,504
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the kind of decision making that we really want to support a can

1165
00:39:31,280 –> 00:39:35,760
[Paul Tyler]: okay so here here’s literally a million dollar question just set it up i was at

1166
00:39:35,840 –> 00:39:40,400
[Paul Tyler]: an insure tech conference here monday ramsay we actually had former guests there

1167
00:39:40,480 –> 00:39:43,440
[Paul Tyler]: at this event new york so jerry golden was there spent some time with

1168
00:39:43,318 –> 00:39:44,318
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1169
00:39:43,520 –> 00:39:49,440
[Paul Tyler]: jerry our friends remaining best a m s t v was broadcasting there you missed but

1170
00:39:50,240 –> 00:39:54,240
[Paul Tyler]: actually people came up and talked to us better me about our show so we’re uh you

1171
00:39:54,400 –> 00:39:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: crossing a lot of wires here

1172
00:39:55,478 –> 00:39:56,478
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1173
00:39:56,080 –> 00:40:02,320
[Paul Tyler]: but temco we took out some very prominent vcs for dinner night before and the

1174
00:40:02,400 –> 00:40:06,080
[Paul Tyler]: question i got was yeah i’m reading about this and hearing about this paul but

1175
00:40:06,240 –> 00:40:08,400
[Paul Tyler]: like when you know is this a

1176
00:40:09,260 –> 00:40:10,260
[Paul Tyler]: when is this

1177
00:40:09,638 –> 00:40:10,638
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1178
00:40:10,060 –> 00:40:11,060
[Paul Tyler]: going to be a meaningful market

1179
00:40:10,838 –> 00:40:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: work

1180
00:40:11,280 –> 00:40:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: is it three years five years ten years from now to invest i mean what’s

1181
00:40:15,558 –> 00:40:16,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1182
00:40:16,000 –> 00:40:17,360
[Paul Tyler]: your what’s your

1183
00:40:17,278 –> 00:40:18,278
[Ramsey Smith]: your respect

1184
00:40:17,440 –> 00:40:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: perspective like when will

1185
00:40:20,400 –> 00:40:24,640
[Paul Tyler]: this be a material a business that you know people are going to fund a lot of the

1186
00:40:24,720 –> 00:40:27,280
[Paul Tyler]: businesses that are making big bets in the space

1187
00:40:30,044 –> 00:40:31,044
[Tamiko Toland]: so

1188
00:40:31,944 –> 00:40:33,784
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s a it’s a slow play

1189
00:40:33,478 –> 00:40:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: one

1190
00:40:33,644 –> 00:40:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: still

1191
00:40:34,904 –> 00:40:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: honestly like it’s not like all of a sudden everybody’s gonna start throwing this

1192
00:40:35,218 –> 00:40:36,978
[Ramsey Smith]: ho not like all the

1193
00:40:38,824 –> 00:40:42,584
[Tamiko Toland]: on their plans and my feeling is a and i

1194
00:40:42,404 –> 00:40:43,404
[Tamiko Toland]: think this gets

1195
00:40:42,540 –> 00:40:43,540
[Paul Tyler]: i think it’s

1196
00:40:42,918 –> 00:40:43,918
[Ramsey Smith]: get

1197
00:40:43,224 –> 00:40:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: missed a little bit with like the

1198
00:40:44,918 –> 00:40:45,918
[Ramsey Smith]: like that

1199
00:40:45,464 –> 00:40:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsay’s press release survey right a lot

1200
00:40:47,780 –> 00:40:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: what

1201
00:40:48,264 –> 00:40:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: of the companies that are really engaged now have been engaged for a very long

1202
00:40:51,484 –> 00:40:52,484
[Tamiko Toland]: time

1203
00:40:53,304 –> 00:40:54,344
[Tamiko Toland]: right and

1204
00:40:54,498 –> 00:40:56,258
[Ramsey Smith]: and they feel that

1205
00:40:55,224 –> 00:40:57,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they feel like this is an important opportunity

1206
00:40:58,284 –> 00:40:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right

1207
00:40:58,998 –> 00:40:59,998
[Ramsey Smith]: um

1208
00:40:59,644 –> 00:41:00,644
[Tamiko Toland]: but

1209
00:40:59,700 –> 00:41:00,700
[Paul Tyler]: like

1210
00:40:59,878 –> 00:41:00,878
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1211
00:41:01,224 –> 00:41:02,584
[Tamiko Toland]: uh you know when

1212
00:41:02,278 –> 00:41:03,278
[Ramsey Smith]: it would

1213
00:41:02,664 –> 00:41:03,944
[Tamiko Toland]: you’ve been doing it for a

1214
00:41:03,860 –> 00:41:04,860
[Paul Tyler]: decade

1215
00:41:04,024 –> 00:41:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: decade or perhaps longer

1216
00:41:06,740 –> 00:41:07,740
[Paul Tyler]: and not quite she

1217
00:41:06,744 –> 00:41:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and not quite nailed it i mean there’s a lot of conviction around the space and

1218
00:41:12,024 –> 00:41:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: being present and planting the flag

1219
00:41:15,224 –> 00:41:16,344
[Tamiko Toland]: where you know i don’t

1220
00:41:16,038 –> 00:41:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t

1221
00:41:16,424 –> 00:41:20,024
[Tamiko Toland]: think the expectation is oh yeah we’re gonna be getting our money back in the

1222
00:41:20,104 –> 00:41:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: next year or two right

1223
00:41:21,140 –> 00:41:22,140
[Paul Tyler]: great

1224
00:41:22,504 –> 00:41:23,544
[Tamiko Toland]: um so

1225
00:41:24,444 –> 00:41:25,444
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s

1226
00:41:26,244 –> 00:41:27,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i think

1227
00:41:26,420 –> 00:41:27,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think it

1228
00:41:26,558 –> 00:41:27,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

1229
00:41:26,984 –> 00:41:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: at at a high level firms

1230
00:41:29,620 –> 00:41:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: like

1231
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be

1232
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be

1233
00:41:32,524 –> 00:41:33,524
[Tamiko Toland]: right

1234
00:41:32,758 –> 00:41:33,758
[Ramsey Smith]: right

1235
00:41:32,820 –> 00:41:33,820
[Paul Tyler]: right yeah

1236
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you

1237
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you

1238
00:41:35,884 –> 00:41:36,884
[Tamiko Toland]: if you need to

1239
00:41:37,864 –> 00:41:39,944
[Tamiko Toland]: like replenish the coffers quickly i

1240
00:41:40,020 –> 00:41:41,020
[Paul Tyler]: i think it still

1241
00:41:40,024 –> 00:41:43,944
[Tamiko Toland]: think it’s it’s still going to be tough because it’s still very very difficult to

1242
00:41:44,204 –> 00:41:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: predict

1243
00:41:44,978 –> 00:41:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: predict health it is not a really fast

1244
00:41:44,984 –> 00:41:49,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and history tells us that this is not a really fast moving space right

1245
00:41:49,478 –> 00:41:50,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right

1246
00:41:49,760 –> 00:41:51,440
[Paul Tyler]: crazy i think

1247
00:41:50,204 –> 00:41:51,204
[Tamiko Toland]: um but i i mean i

1248
00:41:50,998 –> 00:41:51,998
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean i think that

1249
00:41:51,144 –> 00:41:53,064
[Tamiko Toland]: think the opportunity is obviously still there

1250
00:41:52,838 –> 00:41:53,838
[Ramsey Smith]: there

1251
00:41:53,464 –> 00:41:55,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’re getting so close like it really

1252
00:41:55,538 –> 00:41:58,738
[Ramsey Smith]: you do like really a once but i’m talking

1253
00:41:55,624 –> 00:41:59,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it feels like we’re really on the cusp but on the cusp of something that’s still

1254
00:41:59,318 –> 00:42:00,318
[Ramsey Smith]: really

1255
00:41:59,464 –> 00:42:02,104
[Tamiko Toland]: relatively slow moving right and

1256
00:42:01,540 –> 00:42:02,540
[Paul Tyler]: right and

1257
00:42:03,144 –> 00:42:06,504
[Tamiko Toland]: you know especially large punches want to see what the other ones are doing like

1258
00:42:06,204 –> 00:42:07,204
[Tamiko Toland]: what

1259
00:42:06,420 –> 00:42:07,420
[Paul Tyler]: what

1260
00:42:06,904 –> 00:42:08,664
[Tamiko Toland]: oh what choices are you making you know how

1261
00:42:08,364 –> 00:42:09,364
[Tamiko Toland]: are you

1262
00:42:08,500 –> 00:42:09,500
[Paul Tyler]: i mean

1263
00:42:08,798 –> 00:42:09,798
[Ramsey Smith]: how are you

1264
00:42:09,064 –> 00:42:13,864
[Tamiko Toland]: implementing this how did that go right and i think that that experience feeds

1265
00:42:14,024 –> 00:42:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: into the willingness of others to jump

1266
00:42:15,638 –> 00:42:16,638
[Ramsey Smith]: ju

1267
00:42:15,924 –> 00:42:16,924
[Tamiko Toland]: into it because it’s not

1268
00:42:16,420 –> 00:42:17,420
[Paul Tyler]: not

1269
00:42:16,824 –> 00:42:17,864
[Tamiko Toland]: simply about saying oh great

1270
00:42:17,678 –> 00:42:18,678
[Ramsey Smith]: hungry

1271
00:42:18,024 –> 00:42:19,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you know we’re gonna pick this thing

1272
00:42:21,860 –> 00:42:22,860
[Paul Tyler]: ramsey

1273
00:42:22,438 –> 00:42:23,438
[Ramsey Smith]: all right

1274
00:42:22,800 –> 00:42:27,360
[Paul Tyler]: we’re we’re we’re kind of the top of top of the the hour here i don’t know final

1275
00:42:27,760 –> 00:42:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: thoughts questions here

1276
00:42:28,978 –> 00:42:35,618
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah so much so much to chew on there um i was you know i was really struck by

1277
00:42:35,858 –> 00:42:41,778
[Ramsey Smith]: your comment about sort of the culture here the culture of the target audience

1278
00:42:41,858 –> 00:42:45,058
[Ramsey Smith]: and if you think about the there’s two target audiences right the first one is

1279
00:42:45,618 –> 00:42:47,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the plan sponsors the folks that are holding the

1280
00:42:49,218 –> 00:42:53,938
[Ramsey Smith]: that have the assets then the ultimate target obviously is the end conser but

1281
00:42:55,938 –> 00:43:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you pointed out quite rightly so that you have all the people that are in

1282
00:43:00,338 –> 00:43:01,378
[Ramsey Smith]: decision making position

1283
00:43:02,978 –> 00:43:08,178
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t necessarily have a culture of of talking about income at maybe the the

1284
00:43:08,258 –> 00:43:12,098
[Ramsey Smith]: depth that it needs to be for them to be comfortable to move forward with things

1285
00:43:12,178 –> 00:43:17,378
[Ramsey Smith]: like this so it’ll be it’s just an interesting uh conundrum to figure out how to

1286
00:43:17,538 –> 00:43:21,618
[Ramsey Smith]: how to how to get past that point is it the same people be getting educated is it

1287
00:43:21,698 –> 00:43:23,778
[Ramsey Smith]: new people in those roles i don’t know

1288
00:43:24,818 –> 00:43:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but that that is of the many of the many interesting things you said that’s the

1289
00:43:28,418 –> 00:43:31,778
[Ramsey Smith]: one that sticks with me because i feel like that’s that’s often the hardest thing

1290
00:43:31,598 –> 00:43:32,598
[Ramsey Smith]: to overcome

1291
00:43:34,844 –> 00:43:35,844
[Tamiko Toland]: but it’s

1292
00:43:35,420 –> 00:43:36,420
[Paul Tyler]: i need know

1293
00:43:35,704 –> 00:43:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s an opportunity as well for the intermediaries

1294
00:43:39,398 –> 00:43:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

1295
00:43:40,344 –> 00:43:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and let’s not let that point get lost right um ’cause when you talk to folks

1296
00:43:45,784 –> 00:43:47,464
[Tamiko Toland]: about like target date funds

1297
00:43:48,504 –> 00:43:50,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know people who missed the

1298
00:43:49,940 –> 00:43:50,940
[Paul Tyler]: w

1299
00:43:50,264 –> 00:43:52,104
[Tamiko Toland]: bus really missed the bus on that

1300
00:43:52,764 –> 00:43:53,764
[Tamiko Toland]: so

1301
00:43:53,220 –> 00:43:54,220
[Paul Tyler]: do i think that

1302
00:43:53,384 –> 00:43:57,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that the same the same goes for in common and

1303
00:43:58,904 –> 00:44:00,504
[Tamiko Toland]: even if you have not been

1304
00:44:00,100 –> 00:44:01,100
[Paul Tyler]: sh

1305
00:44:00,484 –> 00:44:01,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a passionate

1306
00:44:01,300 –> 00:44:02,300
[Paul Tyler]: about

1307
00:44:01,384 –> 00:44:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: advocate of of income solutions right

1308
00:44:05,280 –> 00:44:08,640
[Paul Tyler]: right i think the i know i have heard about

1309
00:44:05,784 –> 00:44:08,104
[Tamiko Toland]: i think now is a really good time to learn

1310
00:44:08,118 –> 00:44:09,118
[Ramsey Smith]: learn about

1311
00:44:08,344 –> 00:44:09,944
[Tamiko Toland]: about them and w how does

1312
00:44:09,678 –> 00:44:10,678
[Ramsey Smith]: not good

1313
00:44:09,964 –> 00:44:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: this really apply

1314
00:44:11,564 –> 00:44:12,564
[Tamiko Toland]: to

1315
00:44:12,924 –> 00:44:13,924
[Tamiko Toland]: to the

1316
00:44:13,864 –> 00:44:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: workplace savings right and it is different and there are different ways of

1317
00:44:14,080 –> 00:44:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: what we i didn’t eat

1318
00:44:17,704 –> 00:44:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about it there are different ways of breaking down the client cause the

1319
00:44:21,144 –> 00:44:22,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is this like

1320
00:44:22,580 –> 00:44:23,580
[Paul Tyler]: like

1321
00:44:23,224 –> 00:44:26,104
[Tamiko Toland]: or the end user is the sponsor right but it’s

1322
00:44:25,860 –> 00:44:26,860
[Paul Tyler]: what

1323
00:44:26,104 –> 00:44:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: funny because there’s a parallel between retail and how we think about you who’s

1324
00:44:29,464 –> 00:44:31,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is is the client

1325
00:44:30,678 –> 00:44:31,678
[Ramsey Smith]: like

1326
00:44:31,144 –> 00:44:32,184
[Tamiko Toland]: the persons ends

1327
00:44:31,798 –> 00:44:32,798
[Ramsey Smith]: eight

1328
00:44:32,184 –> 00:44:33,624
[Tamiko Toland]: up with the annuity or is the

1329
00:44:33,478 –> 00:44:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the plane

1330
00:44:33,624 –> 00:44:36,984
[Tamiko Toland]: client actually the financial intermediary who

1331
00:44:36,980 –> 00:44:37,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

1332
00:44:37,144 –> 00:44:38,824
[Tamiko Toland]: ends up making that recommendation and

1333
00:44:38,420 –> 00:44:39,420
[Paul Tyler]: and

1334
00:44:38,984 –> 00:44:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: we know that the industry has always

1335
00:44:40,380 –> 00:44:41,380
[Paul Tyler]: he out

1336
00:44:40,504 –> 00:44:42,904
[Tamiko Toland]: seen it as that financial intermediary right

1337
00:44:43,140 –> 00:44:44,140
[Paul Tyler]: and

1338
00:44:43,544 –> 00:44:45,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and the same kind of goes here but

1339
00:44:45,340 –> 00:44:46,340
[Paul Tyler]: you all

1340
00:44:45,544 –> 00:44:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re also they’re providing advice

1341
00:44:46,780 –> 00:44:47,780
[Paul Tyler]: you like

1342
00:44:47,144 –> 00:44:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and they you know they may be providing other other

1343
00:44:48,820 –> 00:44:49,820
[Paul Tyler]: other

1344
00:44:49,624 –> 00:44:51,144
[Tamiko Toland]: fiduciary services as well

1345
00:44:51,100 –> 00:44:52,100
[Paul Tyler]: well we

1346
00:44:51,784 –> 00:44:53,864
[Tamiko Toland]: where it’s very relevant for them to need to be

1347
00:44:53,940 –> 00:44:54,940
[Paul Tyler]: i

1348
00:44:54,264 –> 00:44:56,264
[Tamiko Toland]: educated to a higher degree you’re

1349
00:44:56,318 –> 00:44:57,318
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re certainly not

1350
00:44:56,344 –> 00:44:57,624
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly not gonna be like

1351
00:44:58,684 –> 00:44:59,684
[Tamiko Toland]: seeing people

1352
00:44:59,444 –> 00:45:00,444
[Tamiko Toland]: change seats in

1353
00:44:59,458 –> 00:45:00,738
[Ramsey Smith]: c g c c

1354
00:45:00,020 –> 00:45:01,020
[Paul Tyler]: oh

1355
00:45:00,424 –> 00:45:01,864
[Tamiko Toland]: h r departments or

1356
00:45:01,958 –> 00:45:02,958
[Ramsey Smith]: k

1357
00:45:02,024 –> 00:45:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: cfos change because of income okay

1358
00:45:04,924 –> 00:45:05,924
[Tamiko Toland]: so we

1359
00:45:05,638 –> 00:45:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yep

1360
00:45:06,024 –> 00:45:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: got to work with what we got here

1361
00:45:07,380 –> 00:45:08,380
[Paul Tyler]: huh

1362
00:45:07,478 –> 00:45:08,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right

1363
00:45:07,484 –> 00:45:08,484
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsey

1364
00:45:11,140 –> 00:45:12,140
[Paul Tyler]: no this

1365
00:45:13,200 –> 00:45:14,320
[Paul Tyler]: this is this is terrific

1366
00:45:16,000 –> 00:45:21,120
[Paul Tyler]: uh i guess for the listeners who are hungry to learn more

1367
00:45:21,238 –> 00:45:22,238
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1368
00:45:22,000 –> 00:45:26,320
[Paul Tyler]: or i want to follow you what’s what’s the best way is it is it linkedin is it

1369
00:45:27,760 –> 00:45:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: your corporate website

1370
00:45:30,900 –> 00:45:31,900
[Paul Tyler]: think he

1371
00:45:30,904 –> 00:45:33,224
[Tamiko Toland]: linkedin is great i mean you know can x is

1372
00:45:32,980 –> 00:45:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: exact

1373
00:45:33,164 –> 00:45:34,164
[Tamiko Toland]: active on linkedin

1374
00:45:33,998 –> 00:45:34,998
[Ramsey Smith]: and i

1375
00:45:34,184 –> 00:45:35,384
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m active on linkedin

1376
00:45:35,644 –> 00:45:36,644
[Tamiko Toland]: we

1377
00:45:35,700 –> 00:45:36,700
[Paul Tyler]: oh

1378
00:45:36,258 –> 00:45:37,858
[Ramsey Smith]: i there all on twitter

1379
00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research

1380
00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research

1381
00:45:39,280 –> 00:45:42,000
[Paul Tyler]: hear any of the uh oh

1382
00:45:41,564 –> 00:45:42,564
[Tamiko Toland]: and

1383
00:45:42,264 –> 00:45:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: articles commentary and what have you also

1384
00:45:42,398 –> 00:45:43,398
[Ramsey Smith]: article

1385
00:45:44,284 –> 00:45:45,284
[Tamiko Toland]: our

1386
00:45:44,658 –> 00:45:46,338
[Ramsey Smith]: also our web film

1387
00:45:44,660 –> 00:45:45,660
[Paul Tyler]: really

1388
00:45:44,904 –> 00:45:49,464
[Tamiko Toland]: website has a wealth of information under thought leadership as well as if videos

1389
00:45:49,544 –> 00:45:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and all all kinds of stuff

1390
00:45:50,598 –> 00:45:51,598
[Ramsey Smith]: stuff

1391
00:45:50,960 –> 00:45:52,240
[Paul Tyler]: stuff and they

1392
00:45:51,464 –> 00:45:53,784
[Tamiko Toland]: um and there’s there you know there is

1393
00:45:53,540 –> 00:45:54,540
[Paul Tyler]: there’s

1394
00:45:53,558 –> 00:45:54,558
[Ramsey Smith]: here

1395
00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just

1396
00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just

1397
00:45:56,320 –> 00:46:00,560
[Paul Tyler]: excellent alright let listen thanks so much there there’s a there’s a lot

1398
00:45:57,458 –> 00:46:00,658
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m sure there’s a lot of stuff on lifetime income there not some

1399
00:46:01,284 –> 00:46:02,284
[Tamiko Toland]: what guess

1400
00:46:02,780 –> 00:46:03,780
[Paul Tyler]: there’s a lot and

1401
00:46:03,484 –> 00:46:04,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a wea bit

1402
00:46:03,680 –> 00:46:05,200
[Paul Tyler]: we will put those links we will put

1403
00:46:04,838 –> 00:46:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1404
00:46:05,280 –> 00:46:07,360
[Paul Tyler]: those links in the show notes if you want to click in and

1405
00:46:08,020 –> 00:46:09,020
[Paul Tyler]: connect

1406
00:46:09,920 –> 00:46:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: or visit the website so taco thanks so much ramsey as usual appreciate all the

1407
00:46:15,060 –> 00:46:16,060
[Paul Tyler]: great

1408
00:46:16,640 –> 00:46:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: questions and thought behind this uh this show um please join us again next week

1409
00:46:21,680 –> 00:46:25,520
[Paul Tyler]: and uh for another very interesting episode of that annuity show

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 141: Diving Deeper Into The Qualified Default Investment Alternative Market With Tamiko Toland

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