Episodes

Episode 147: Preparing for Life 2 With Don Ezra

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Planning for retirement should not be just about figuring out how to pay the bills when the paychecks end. Planning should be about finding a new identity, purpose, and direction that is fulfilling in later years. Don Ezra, investment expert and author joins us to talk about his own journey into retirement and the guide he has created to help people learn from his own experiences.
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Transcript

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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

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[Paul Tyler]: another great guest this time do you want to do the honors and introduce us

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[Ramsey Smith]: absolutely i’d be happy to so we’re joined today by don ezra from sunny toronto

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[Ramsey Smith]: canada

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[Ramsey Smith]: and this is a fantastic opportunity today for a number of reasons but the primary

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[Ramsey Smith]: reason is

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[Ramsey Smith]: that don spends a lot of time talking about what we do and how we feel about

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[Ramsey Smith]: retirement both the transition into retirement and and life

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[Ramsey Smith]: in in retirement or graduation as he likes to put it which i think is a fantastic

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[Ramsey Smith]: word so don spent many years at russell investments and has a phenomenal

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[Ramsey Smith]: background was an actuary but

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[Paul Tyler]: thank

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[Ramsey Smith]: this very interesting thing that that don does he’s forward focused and we’re

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[Ramsey Smith]: going to talk about that and that’s something that all of us in our lives will

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[Ramsey Smith]: have to face and and that annuity show is about more than just the money and so

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[Ramsey Smith]: that’s why is this is really a fantastic opportunity for us so

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[Ramsey Smith]: tell us

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[Paul Tyler]: help

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[Ramsey Smith]: tell us a little bit about your about your journey and and how you came to the to

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[Ramsey Smith]: the conclusion that it was worth it made not just worth it was it was worth it

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[Ramsey Smith]: was an important time opportunity to focus on life after graduation if you will

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[Don Ezra]: absolutely thank you for the the very generous introduction and it’s an honor to

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[Don Ezra]: join the past list of guests you’ve had on your show it’s fantastic thank you

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[Don Ezra]: so i actually retired as the word goes i hate it as you said i prefer graduation

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[Don Ezra]: from full time work but i i retired at a time of my own choosing which many

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[Don Ezra]: people don’t get do and in a way i wanted to do

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[Don Ezra]: and i continued working part time with

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[Don Ezra]: russell and so everything was absolutely perfect and i was absolutely astonished

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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s like everything

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[Don Ezra]: as a result of that to find that i felt completely discombobulated i had no idea

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[Don Ezra]: what had suddenly gone wrong

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[Don Ezra]: but all of a sudden

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[Don Ezra]: things seemed to be falling apart even though i was doing it exactly the way i

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[Don Ezra]: wanted to and and i realized that

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[Don Ezra]: something

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Don Ezra]: my friend mayor sta and a professor at santa clara university

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[Don Ezra]: had said was really really really important and i’d never realized he so when

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[Don Ezra]: when

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Don Ezra]: when you when you leave work

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[Don Ezra]: you lose part of your identity you lose

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[Don Ezra]: access to your accomplishments you you you lose a community and at russell we

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[Don Ezra]: were not just colleagues we were friends and i lost all of that even though i

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[Don Ezra]: only lost half of it because the rest of the time was all my own

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[Paul Tyler]: the

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[Don Ezra]: but i felt that

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[Paul Tyler]: my

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[Don Ezra]: i i’d been i was a tree that had been uprooted i was

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[Don Ezra]: a very healthy tree it it had grown in soil that nurtured the growth and it was

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[Don Ezra]: thriving and all of a sudden it was uprooted and now i had decisions to me what

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[Don Ezra]: kind of a tree did i want to be where did i want to plant it and wherever i was

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[Don Ezra]: going to plant it the roots would take time to penetrate and grow back again and

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[Don Ezra]: as it happened it took me about three years of thinking about this and

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[Don Ezra]: researching it i mean i

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[Paul Tyler]: oh

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[Don Ezra]: was a consultant what do consultants do other than research

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[Don Ezra]: and benefit from other people’s wisdom which they absorb it took me three years

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[Don Ezra]: before i realized the kinds of things i wanted to do

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[Don Ezra]: and and part of that was actually moving from new york back to toronto which i

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[Don Ezra]: had left twenty five years earlier and it was all that kind of stuff

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[Don Ezra]: that that made me realize that transition i mean we talk about retirement as if

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[Don Ezra]: yesterday you were working today or retired transition is actually

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[Don Ezra]: psychologically a very important stage and in my case it was a three year long

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[Don Ezra]: stage and one of the things that the guys at russell had me do was the first

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Don Ezra]: year into that they had me back at the client conference which it had been my job

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[Don Ezra]: to organize in the past and they

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[Paul Tyler]: i think

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[Don Ezra]: had me give a keynote just describing myself s in retirement and it’s the only

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[Don Ezra]: time in my life i ever had a standing ovation and i know what it was i mean we

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[Don Ezra]: were friends with the clients too so they they liked the old guy they were seeing

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[Don Ezra]: in front of them like seam again et cetera

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Don Ezra]: etc but i think they realized that this was something they were going to have to

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[Don Ezra]: go through and the honesty of here’s how i feel here’s what i’m doing here’s

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[Don Ezra]: what’s going right here’s what i’m wondering about i think i think that got

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[Don Ezra]: through to them in a very personal way because they knew they were going to have

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[Don Ezra]: to go through that as well

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[Paul Tyler]: then

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[Don Ezra]: and it was as a result of that that i thought ok can i be a consultant again can

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[Don Ezra]: i research this and so i started researching in god bless the internet and and

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[Don Ezra]: that ended up first in a book on happiness because i’d been studying the brain

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[Don Ezra]: for behavioral finance considerations and stuff like that and after that into

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[Don Ezra]: what are the issues that are involved that have caused me to be to be so

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[Don Ezra]: uncomfortable i don’t know if combobulated is a word but after being disco bob i

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[Don Ezra]: finally got cobo bl it again

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[Don Ezra]: and it occurred to me that sort of if you think of this as a journey life this is

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[Don Ezra]: a journey through the second part of your life it’s long enough to be a life so i

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[Don Ezra]: call it life too

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[Don Ezra]: the

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[Paul Tyler]: no

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[Don Ezra]: there are there are some rocks you need to avoid and as i thought about it i mean

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[Don Ezra]: education is the way to do this but what are the subjects it’s not history math

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[Don Ezra]: geography literature and stuff like that the three rocks to avoid there’s there’s

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[Don Ezra]: there’s an identity rock there’s an activity rock and there’s a money rock so

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[Don Ezra]: exactly as she said ramsey there’s there’s much

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[Paul Tyler]: oh

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[Don Ezra]: more to this than just money

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[Don Ezra]: and some people avoid them all some people hit them all but if you’re aware of

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[Don Ezra]: those rocks the identity the activity and the money rocks at least you know what

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[Don Ezra]: you’re looking for and you can get i put together as much wisdom as i could

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[Don Ezra]: assemble from other people’s lives and my own

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[Don Ezra]: and then put them under these headings and say what can you do

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[Don Ezra]: how do you identify the issues and these headings in your own life and then what

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[Don Ezra]: questions can you ask yourself to relate to how you can then start to at least be

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[Don Ezra]: in control it’s it’s like most people have fear and dread when they think about

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[Don Ezra]: retirement they they they don’t want it it’s they don’t say that they say it’s

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[Don Ezra]: too complicated but it’s not actually too complicated for them it’s just they

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[Don Ezra]: don’t want to think about it they’re scared and so that’s that’s where i where i

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[Don Ezra]: tried to help with the book and with my blog posts on my website and stuff like

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[Don Ezra]: that

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[Paul Tyler]: so three rocks i love it uh

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[Paul Tyler]: do you navigate the rocks by yourself or on who helped you navigate your rocks

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[Paul Tyler]: who were the guides along that path

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[Don Ezra]: well

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[Ramsey Smith]: we see that too

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[Don Ezra]: they say there are ten thousand baby boomers a day retiring now

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[Don Ezra]: and they don’t have enough help et cetera baby boomers baby boomers are kids to

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[Don Ezra]: me i’m a world war two baby so i had

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[Ramsey Smith]: hm

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[Don Ezra]: absolutely no help so i had to do this myself i think more and more

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Don Ezra]: today there are people who are becoming experts in this area who can help you on

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[Don Ezra]: the money side of course

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[Paul Tyler]: st

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[Don Ezra]: there are there’s expertise all over the place but on the psychological side

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[Don Ezra]: more and more that there are retirement planners who are coming along who who

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[Don Ezra]: retire and coaches is i think they call themselves and they deal with the

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[Don Ezra]: psychological and practical aspects as opposed to the financial aspect so it is

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[Don Ezra]: possible to get help these days

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[Ramsey Smith]: but what is the best way to think about

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[Ramsey Smith]: like let’s start with the identity rock that’s a that’s a really tough one that’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: that in some ways that’s the you know that seems like the the the least solvable

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[Ramsey Smith]: one of the hardest one to solve right because it’s so it’s so

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[Don Ezra]: i i think you spot on yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: sub subjective yeah so so how do people so jill or john is retiring and they’re

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[Ramsey Smith]: dealing with this i mean you took three years and you know you took you worked on

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[Ramsey Smith]: it very deliberately so

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[Paul Tyler]: oh

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[Paul Tyler]: god

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[Don Ezra]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: what should people expect is the right amount of time for that transition and

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[Ramsey Smith]: what are the most concrete steps they can make to get to get going on it

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[Don Ezra]: i i think i think you probably ought to start maybe at five years before you’re

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[Don Ezra]: planning to graduate

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[Ramsey Smith]: wow okay

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[Don Ezra]: and start thinking about well one of the reasons is that i’ve seen statistics

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[Don Ezra]: that say half of retirees retired before they planned to

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[Paul Tyler]: it is

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[Don Ezra]: i mean it it it it it could be uh your ill health the ill health of someone else

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[Don Ezra]: you have to look after it could be layoffs it could be all kinds of things but

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[Don Ezra]: half of people don’t retire when they’re planning to so give it five years to

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[Don Ezra]: think about it

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[Don Ezra]: and i think some of the things you need to think about as what is important to

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[Don Ezra]: you

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[Don Ezra]: as i quoted mayor staten

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[Don Ezra]: the more successful you’ve been

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[Don Ezra]: the more your identity is tied to your work

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[Don Ezra]: and the more your life sort of surrounds it in fact until covid came along

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[Ramsey Smith]: yes

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[Don Ezra]: most of us the happier we were at work spent far more time at work than we ever

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[Don Ezra]: did at home and in fact having to work from home i understand has driven the

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[Don Ezra]: divorce rate up so it’s it’s yeah it’s not an easy thing to come back so it’s

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[Don Ezra]: partly the activity the combined activity but partly the identity thing too so

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[Don Ezra]: who am i is the big question

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[Don Ezra]: and

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[Don Ezra]: i i found there were a couple of sets of questions to ask yourself

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[Don Ezra]: that tend to help here at at a very very very high level gentleman named george

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[Don Ezra]: kinder i came up with with three life questions and there as follows one is

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[Don Ezra]: you have all the money

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[Don Ezra]: you want how would you live your life okay

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[Don Ezra]: question two

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[Don Ezra]: you’ve just been told you have five to ten years to live

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[Don Ezra]: how would you change your life

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[Don Ezra]: question three you’ve just been told you have twenty four hours to live what are

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[Don Ezra]: your regrets

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[Don Ezra]: and out of that you can start

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[Don Ezra]: i mean these are not questions you answer in sixty seconds these are questions

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[Don Ezra]: you ponder over and take your time over and perhaps every five years you want to

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[Don Ezra]: rethink them

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[Don Ezra]: but these are things that ought to give you some sense of what is the most

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[Don Ezra]: important purpose i have etc etc etc that’s a very high level one at a lower

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[Don Ezra]: level one another one i found very useful is is by a guy named ed jacobson

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[Don Ezra]: who came up with the concept of a life’s abundance portfolio so a portfolio is

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[Don Ezra]: just a collection of things under different headings and this is your life’s

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[Don Ezra]: abundance and he said there were seven different factors

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[Ramsey Smith]: no

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[Don Ezra]: to me there’s seven asset classes in the life’s abundance portfolio and i cannot

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[Don Ezra]: remember

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[Don Ezra]: the names ed gave it but i remember them myself very simply in pairs family

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[Don Ezra]: and friends

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[Don Ezra]: work and play

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[Don Ezra]: mental health which

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[Ramsey Smith]: you

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[Don Ezra]: includes spirituality and

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[Ramsey Smith]: w

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[Don Ezra]: physical health i said there were seven oh yes money

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[Ramsey Smith]: so

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[Don Ezra]: so these are the seven asset classes in your life’s abundance portfolio and on

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[Don Ezra]: each of them give yourself a personal rating where am i on a scale of zero to ten

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[Don Ezra]: where would i wreck myself there are no right answers or wrong answers and only

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[Don Ezra]: your answer is relevant people may say you’re an awful so and so and you should

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[Don Ezra]: rate yourself very lowly on that no no no only your own answer is

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[Ramsey Smith]: what

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[Don Ezra]: relevant so rate yourself there and then look back on your ratings and say are

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[Don Ezra]: there which are the ones i’m comfortable with i mean you could be comfortable

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[Don Ezra]: with a force somewhere and uncomfortable with the seven that’s okay which are the

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[Don Ezra]: ones i’m uncomfortable with and then what is in my power

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[Don Ezra]: to raise my rating in those asset classes in my life’s abundance portfolio and

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[Don Ezra]: that starts to give you some feeling of what are the things you can do that are

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[Don Ezra]: more important to you etc etc etc and one of the other things this starts to

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[Don Ezra]: to get to and it took me far more than my personal three years of transition to

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[Don Ezra]: come to this realization that one of the things that has become important to me

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[Don Ezra]: personally is the legacy i leave not financial legacy the emotional legacy will

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[Don Ezra]: people think of me after i’m gone on this earth that’s as close to immortality

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[Don Ezra]: i’m likely to get and it’s gonna be family and friends and it’ll be for a few

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[Don Ezra]: years that’s it but will they think of me happily

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[Don Ezra]: i

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[Don Ezra]: the way i’ve been behaving they will think of me

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[Don Ezra]: not only with the smile but with a laugh because i’ve they they keep pointing out

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[Don Ezra]: all the stupid things that this very intelligent person does and they say oh do

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[Don Ezra]: you see what don just did oh uncle don did so and so grand et cetera et cetera

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[Don Ezra]: and and

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[Don Ezra]: i i love i love that because intellect is not what this is all about money

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[Don Ezra]: financial legacy is not what this is all about it’s the emotional legacy that at

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[Don Ezra]: this stage of my life has become important to me and i think questions like that

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[Don Ezra]: start to start to change your mindset it may take a

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Don Ezra]: long time as i say particularly the more successful we’ve been the longer it

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[Don Ezra]: takes for us to say but that was in the past what about the future

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[Don Ezra]: and and that’s why that’s why i describe myself not just as retired because

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[Don Ezra]: retired is a backward looking word

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[Don Ezra]: but happily retired because i i i feel i’m in the driver’s seat i i still have to

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[Don Ezra]: make decisions on direction on speed

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[Don Ezra]: but in my life’s car at least i’m in the driver’s seat and that’s as as any as

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[Don Ezra]: anyone could have

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah i i’m not sure many people have a true accounting of their assets for

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[Paul Tyler]: happiness right don i think it also adds a whole nother

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[Paul Tyler]: layer to the question of

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[Paul Tyler]: are you leading a rich life

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[Don Ezra]: beautifully put yes exactly exactly

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[Ramsey Smith]: so one of the things that that comes to mind is as i listen to you spell out

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[Ramsey Smith]: these these various priorities these two different sort of paradigms for

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[Ramsey Smith]: priorities is in the in the first or the second one it was interesting that that

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[Ramsey Smith]: money came last and the first one money i don’t believe it was mentioned

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[Ramsey Smith]: mentioned at all

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[Ramsey Smith]: and

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[Don Ezra]: right man

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[Ramsey Smith]: one of the things i think is

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[Don Ezra]: what

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[Ramsey Smith]: often lost on people is that how you prioritize

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[Don Ezra]: right

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[Ramsey Smith]: all those quality of life issues actually can really help

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[Don Ezra]: i

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[Ramsey Smith]: inform the right answer on the money problem right and sometimes

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[Don Ezra]: that

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[Ramsey Smith]: sometimes we’re trying to fix things with money when they’re not really money

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[Ramsey Smith]: problems and that creates stress in and of itself so so

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[Don Ezra]: so so

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[Ramsey Smith]: h how do you

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[Paul Tyler]: and

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[Ramsey Smith]: do you think that

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[Don Ezra]: you

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[Ramsey Smith]: that in in the world of advice if you will do you think this should be a more

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[Ramsey Smith]: important part of

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[Ramsey Smith]: the the advising that is given to retirees potential retirees and maybe is the

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[Ramsey Smith]: case today

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[Don Ezra]: i yes i think so but i think the the client has to be open to it and in fact ed

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[Don Ezra]: jacobson’s life’s abundance portfolio was something i came across at an aicpa

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[Don Ezra]: conference so accountants and ed was speaking we were both speaking there and so

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[Don Ezra]: i done my stuff and and here was a session about having good conversations with

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[Don Ezra]: clients that was what ed

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[Ramsey Smith]: uhhuh

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[Don Ezra]: was talking about and one of the things he mentioned was here are some subjects

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[Don Ezra]: you can talk about and call it the life of life’s abundance portfolio et cetera

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[Don Ezra]: but it’s not always easy to raise the subject one of the things i remember him

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[Don Ezra]: saying was that you want to if you were the one raising the subject

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[Don Ezra]: you want to raise it at a time when things are going well from an investment and

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[Don Ezra]: financial point of view otherwise there might be a suspicion that you’re raising

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[Don Ezra]: it for other reasons so raise it at when other things are going well and

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[Paul Tyler]: i mean

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[Don Ezra]: now you can introduce these new subjects and it’s not always easy to get client’s

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[Don Ezra]: attention because they’ve got to give of themselves much more personally this way

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[Don Ezra]: they have to open up they have to expose themselves and it’s very difficult but

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[Don Ezra]: if you can get a client involved in that way these are things that are that are

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[Don Ezra]: doubly helpful because

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[Don Ezra]: they’re they they’re helpful not only in the

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[Paul Tyler]: i

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[Don Ezra]: conversation and helping the client shape their lives in the future but also

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[Don Ezra]: it allows them to focus on things other than money and

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[Ramsey Smith]: mm hm

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[Don Ezra]: then from your point of view i think it it it helps as well because

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[Don Ezra]: i read i don’t know if this is still true or not because i i don’t have the facts

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[Don Ezra]: but i read that many people have multiple advisors

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[Don Ezra]: and they would like to consolidate under one advisor

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[Don Ezra]: i think the likelihood of being that one advisor is higher if in fact you were

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[Don Ezra]: talking holistically about the whole life’s abundance portfolio then if all

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[Don Ezra]: you’re doing is talking about you know here was your return in the last month the

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[Don Ezra]: last year the last five years et cetera et cetera et cetera because

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[Don Ezra]: that also helps

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[Don Ezra]: for well for

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[Don Ezra]: for example for for people who are not necessarily financially very

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[Don Ezra]: interested literate whatever the word is take my wife she’s a very very very

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[Don Ezra]: intelligent person

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[Don Ezra]: but she does not want to get involved in finance she leaves that to me

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[Don Ezra]: the one thing she understands about our

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[Don Ezra]: arrangements are that we have enough all our needs permanently and as far as our

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Don Ezra]: wants are concerned

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[Don Ezra]: that depends on where markets are et cetera et cetera et cetera and we have we

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[Don Ezra]: have set up a our own portfolio this ’cause this was my

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[Don Ezra]: world war two having to do things for myself i learned i learned from my pension

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[Don Ezra]: fund clients to first you survive then you thrive so we’ve got five years of

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[Don Ezra]: cash flow needs okay

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[Don Ezra]: with cash like

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[Don Ezra]: in investments

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[Ramsey Smith]: oh

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[Don Ezra]: and that gives us five years of security should the market fall suddenly if it

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[Don Ezra]: doesn’t fall we will take money out of our market portfolio and spend it if it

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[Don Ezra]: falls we’ve got five years for it to recover and at least historically who knows

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[Don Ezra]: what the future will bring at least historically seventy fifty five percent of

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[Don Ezra]: the time the market has recovered in real terms inflation adjusted terms after

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[Don Ezra]: five years and she gets this that we have five years of virtual safety and then

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[Don Ezra]: the rest is all in a growth

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[Ramsey Smith]: he

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[Don Ezra]: portfolio and what she understands when for example

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[Don Ezra]: two years ago in march when covid started and the market just crashed she said

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[Ramsey Smith]: what

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[Don Ezra]: what what does this do to us

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[Don Ezra]: and the answer was right now nothing we are doing nothing and we will know what

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[Don Ezra]: it does to us five years from now because

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[Ramsey Smith]: oh

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[Don Ezra]: we don’t have to worry and as a matter of fact as the market has gone up so much

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[Don Ezra]: one of the things we’ve done is expanded our safety net from five years to much

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[Don Ezra]: more because

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[Don Ezra]: sorry i’ve i’ve got way off to wear off your question

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[Ramsey Smith]: now keep going

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[Paul Tyler]: no have

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[Ramsey Smith]: this is good

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[Don Ezra]: what one of the things that in our projections is i’m hoping for a real four

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[Don Ezra]: percent return on the equity portfolio on average over the long term if i get if

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[Don Ezra]: i get four percent i’m happy to cash out the next year’s worth etc in addition to

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[Don Ezra]: the five years where we’ve had such high returns that i’ve cashed out an extra

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[Don Ezra]: year for each of the four percents we’ve made and

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[Ramsey Smith]: okay

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[Don Ezra]: so now we have a safety net a safety part that is way longer than five years

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[Don Ezra]: and and so it’s stuff like that that psychologically i think is very important

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[Don Ezra]: and if you can put that psychological fear to rest then you can help with all the

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[Don Ezra]: other things etc and and you get so much more personal in the conversation with

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[Don Ezra]: the clients when you’re talking about family and friends work and play mental and

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[Don Ezra]: physical health etc etc because now now you’re a friend you’re not you’re not

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[Don Ezra]: just an expert you are an expert who’s a friend

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[Paul Tyler]: don the timing of the conversations you mentioned i think is

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[Paul Tyler]: so important

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[Paul Tyler]: want to have my conversation about my wife about the following ramsey there’s

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[Paul Tyler]: certain times that do it at certain

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[Don Ezra]: th

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[Paul Tyler]: times not today this morning was not a couple topics but dodd

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[Don Ezra]: what

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[Paul Tyler]: you might also mention retirement coaches sort of the evolution of retirement

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[Paul Tyler]: coaching coming in here

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[Paul Tyler]: can i i if i if i were a financial advisor and you were advising me on how to

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[Paul Tyler]: reshape shape my practice should i lead with that conversation

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[Paul Tyler]: purpose

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[Paul Tyler]: you know a

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[Paul Tyler]: happiness assets or is this something i earn the right to the conversation i have

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[Paul Tyler]: the e have to earn the right in order to have that with you

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[Don Ezra]: i really don’t know i don’t know what the answer is and i suspect it probably

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[Don Ezra]: varies from client to client and with the personality of the advisor and and what

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[Don Ezra]: kind of relationship

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[Don Ezra]: you have right from the start

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[Paul Tyler]: but

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[Don Ezra]: i really don’t know the answers to

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[Don Ezra]: is there a right way to do it or not

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[Don Ezra]: i think your judgment there would be much better than mine

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[Ramsey Smith]: well listening to your listening to your story it’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: there’s a lot of things going on so there is there is obviously there’s trust

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[Don Ezra]: look in one

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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re in a marriage that’s something that’s you know

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[Ramsey Smith]: extant

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[Don Ezra]: yes

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[Ramsey Smith]: so there’s trust

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[Ramsey Smith]: there’s been this ability to

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[Don Ezra]: ye

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[Ramsey Smith]: narrow sort of a complicated investment strategy

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[Don Ezra]: scrap

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[Ramsey Smith]: into a few key parameters five years of

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[Don Ezra]: but

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[Ramsey Smith]: safety you know if this then that

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[Don Ezra]: if that

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[Ramsey Smith]: else this then that right it’s a very

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[Don Ezra]: right

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[Ramsey Smith]: small subset of pieces of the puzzle

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[Paul Tyler]: that’s

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[Don Ezra]: a

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[Ramsey Smith]: and also a very fundamental element

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[Don Ezra]: one

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[Ramsey Smith]: is

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[Ramsey Smith]: is this notion that if something does happen there’s a willingness to make the

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[Ramsey Smith]: necessary adjustments we had bill banging on in the last couple of weeks and this

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[Ramsey Smith]: is one of the things that he talked about a lot is just the the

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[Ramsey Smith]: ultimately like

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[Don Ezra]: oh

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[Ramsey Smith]: the killer app using my own words killer app and retirement is is flexibility in

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[Ramsey Smith]: your spending like almost more

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[Don Ezra]: absolutely

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[Ramsey Smith]: almost more than anything else and so

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[Ramsey Smith]: a and and to get to that

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[Ramsey Smith]: part

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[Don Ezra]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: of it is figuring out what’s really important everything else you’ve emphasized

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[Ramsey Smith]: so it’s just interesting to see how all the other qualitative issues that you

414
00:23:48,620 –> 00:23:49,620
[Ramsey Smith]: brought to the fore here

415
00:23:51,120 –> 00:23:56,480
[Ramsey Smith]: all that ultimately translate into you know greater safety and retirement because

416
00:23:57,120 –> 00:24:01,680
[Ramsey Smith]: you’ve narrowed down parameters and you and you’ve and you’ve imparted a you know

417
00:24:01,760 –> 00:24:03,520
[Ramsey Smith]: a culture a philosophy of

418
00:24:03,466 –> 00:24:04,466
[Paul Tyler]: understood

419
00:24:03,600 –> 00:24:04,640
[Ramsey Smith]: like a flexibility

420
00:24:06,979 –> 00:24:10,259
[Don Ezra]: absolutely absolutely anything bill says is gonna be wise

421
00:24:10,300 –> 00:24:11,300
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah right

422
00:24:10,419 –> 00:24:12,419
[Don Ezra]: anyway we know that because he’s such

423
00:24:12,100 –> 00:24:13,100
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

424
00:24:12,279 –> 00:24:13,279
[Don Ezra]: a great guy

425
00:24:14,359 –> 00:24:15,359
[Don Ezra]: but

426
00:24:16,839 –> 00:24:17,839
[Don Ezra]: i think

427
00:24:20,019 –> 00:24:24,819
[Don Ezra]: an important thing that i’ve realized as i’ve come across many advisors

428
00:24:25,859 –> 00:24:27,699
[Don Ezra]: is the question of defining risk

429
00:24:29,379 –> 00:24:34,819
[Don Ezra]: and from a professional point of view risk in terms of standard deviation of

430
00:24:35,139 –> 00:24:38,979
[Don Ezra]: investment returns the stuff marco witz came up with seventy years ago when

431
00:24:39,139 –> 00:24:41,299
[Don Ezra]: modern portfolio theory started

432
00:24:42,579 –> 00:24:47,539
[Don Ezra]: i think that that’s a completely foreign concept to most people it it’s it’s only

433
00:24:47,699 –> 00:24:52,419
[Don Ezra]: us geeks who get into that kind of thing risk is actually a psychological

434
00:24:52,100 –> 00:24:53,100
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

435
00:24:52,579 –> 00:24:58,339
[Don Ezra]: question it’s a lifestyle question it’s what is the risk to my lifestyle what are

436
00:24:57,999 –> 00:24:58,999
[Don Ezra]: the things

437
00:24:58,266 –> 00:24:59,266
[Paul Tyler]: but

438
00:24:58,819 –> 00:25:00,179
[Don Ezra]: i might not be able to do

439
00:25:01,219 –> 00:25:06,499
[Don Ezra]: and you have to understand the client’s lifestyle the clients’ goals and fears

440
00:25:07,699 –> 00:25:13,699
[Don Ezra]: and and in in that area the clients the expert and the financial expert is in

441
00:25:13,699 –> 00:25:18,579
[Don Ezra]: fact the person learning from it whereas most of the time the financial expert is

442
00:25:18,579 –> 00:25:23,139
[Don Ezra]: the expert and the client is trying to learn or relate to it but the idea of

443
00:25:23,219 –> 00:25:27,939
[Don Ezra]: saying the client is the expert on himself or herself and you have to learn about

444
00:25:28,019 –> 00:25:34,499
[Don Ezra]: it is very very important then with your financial expertise you can translate

445
00:25:34,659 –> 00:25:40,179
[Don Ezra]: their psychological lifestyle risk into investment terms and you can do that and

446
00:25:40,259 –> 00:25:44,019
[Don Ezra]: they may not understand that and they may not but but you’ve understood it and

447
00:25:44,099 –> 00:25:48,739
[Don Ezra]: that’s what you’ve done and then when you explain the results or when you explain

448
00:25:48,746 –> 00:25:49,746
[Paul Tyler]: school

449
00:25:49,379 –> 00:25:53,859
[Don Ezra]: the basis on which you have made a proposal or given advice et cetera et cetera

450
00:25:54,339 –> 00:25:55,539
[Don Ezra]: you can then relate it to

451
00:25:56,819 –> 00:26:00,979
[Don Ezra]: these are the goals you have here’s what we’re trying to achieve and these are

452
00:26:01,059 –> 00:26:05,539
[Don Ezra]: the things we’re trying to avoid and nothing is ever given this is an uncertain

453
00:26:05,699 –> 00:26:10,259
[Don Ezra]: world and in the investment world is one of the more uncertain parts even in an

454
00:26:10,419 –> 00:26:14,499
[Don Ezra]: uncertain world but here are the kinds of precautions which you’re trying to take

455
00:26:14,599 –> 00:26:15,599
[Don Ezra]: have i

456
00:26:14,986 –> 00:26:15,986
[Paul Tyler]: okay

457
00:26:15,459 –> 00:26:20,739
[Don Ezra]: have i read you right is this is does this sound right to you this is so much

458
00:26:20,899 –> 00:26:26,979
[Don Ezra]: better than a quarterly return then which quartile are you in et cetera etc and i

459
00:26:26,979 –> 00:26:32,259
[Don Ezra]: think it’s that psychological aspect of risk being able to translate investment

460
00:26:32,419 –> 00:26:33,939
[Don Ezra]: risk into lifestyle

461
00:26:35,239 –> 00:26:36,239
[Don Ezra]: effects

462
00:26:36,020 –> 00:26:37,020
[Ramsey Smith]: but that

463
00:26:36,659 –> 00:26:40,899
[Don Ezra]: that that would then distinguish you from the vast majority

464
00:26:42,099 –> 00:26:45,939
[Don Ezra]: of others who are doing this because they are professionals they are very good

465
00:26:46,019 –> 00:26:50,659
[Don Ezra]: professionals they enjoy being professionals but they are only professionals and

466
00:26:50,739 –> 00:26:54,739
[Don Ezra]: experts and not relating to the client and i think

467
00:26:55,939 –> 00:26:57,379
[Don Ezra]: i i think that would make you stand

468
00:26:57,146 –> 00:26:58,146
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

469
00:26:57,239 –> 00:26:58,239
[Don Ezra]: apart

470
00:26:59,846 –> 00:27:01,126
[Paul Tyler]: i think you’re so right around

471
00:27:02,106 –> 00:27:03,106
[Paul Tyler]: risk equaling

472
00:27:04,086 –> 00:27:09,286
[Paul Tyler]: a psychological state of being for me this comes from my journey is home housing

473
00:27:09,346 –> 00:27:10,346
[Paul Tyler]: that’s kind of what

474
00:27:11,386 –> 00:27:12,386
[Paul Tyler]: my

475
00:27:11,700 –> 00:27:12,700
[Ramsey Smith]: see

476
00:27:13,686 –> 00:27:17,366
[Paul Tyler]: center point is okay do i have a house over my head will i have a house or my

477
00:27:17,366 –> 00:27:21,446
[Paul Tyler]: head don you mentioned time time seem to be important five years why why five

478
00:27:21,526 –> 00:27:23,046
[Paul Tyler]: years went up four one at six

479
00:27:22,399 –> 00:27:23,399
[Don Ezra]: oh i’ve

480
00:27:26,259 –> 00:27:29,459
[Don Ezra]: give a take a few years maybe hay somewhere around five

481
00:27:29,386 –> 00:27:30,386
[Paul Tyler]: yeah his

482
00:27:30,339 –> 00:27:35,459
[Don Ezra]: that’s that’s my approximation i mean i think the actual saving for retirement

483
00:27:35,539 –> 00:27:40,019
[Don Ezra]: you need at least twenty to twenty five years you can get started but twenty to

484
00:27:40,099 –> 00:27:44,099
[Don Ezra]: twenty five years ago you get serious and then you get set and all that kind of

485
00:27:43,719 –> 00:27:44,719
[Don Ezra]: stuff

486
00:27:46,099 –> 00:27:49,779
[Don Ezra]: and compound interest has enough time to work if you give it twenty twenty five

487
00:27:49,939 –> 00:27:51,299
[Don Ezra]: years because the base

488
00:27:50,940 –> 00:27:51,940
[Ramsey Smith]: wow

489
00:27:51,379 –> 00:27:55,859
[Don Ezra]: is relatively low in the early years and these are your best earning years etc so

490
00:27:56,099 –> 00:28:00,579
[Don Ezra]: i think that’s okay but all i’m i think all i’m saying five years was a number

491
00:28:00,739 –> 00:28:04,899
[Don Ezra]: that came into my head all i’m saying is that you ought to start thinking about

492
00:28:04,979 –> 00:28:07,459
[Don Ezra]: the psychological aspects the identity question

493
00:28:08,739 –> 00:28:14,099
[Don Ezra]: before you retire and usually it takes some time because it’s not an adjustment

494
00:28:14,179 –> 00:28:18,659
[Don Ezra]: you make overnight it’s a psychological adjustment it’s an adjustment to your

495
00:28:18,819 –> 00:28:23,779
[Don Ezra]: definition of who you are and that takes time five years i haven’t a clue i have

496
00:28:23,939 –> 00:28:25,619
[Don Ezra]: no clue you’re absolutely right yeah

497
00:28:27,139 –> 00:28:31,379
[Don Ezra]: and i think the other one forgive me the other one we haven’t touched on is the

498
00:28:31,539 –> 00:28:38,179
[Don Ezra]: activity rock which is how do i fill my time when i’m not working full time and

499
00:28:38,259 –> 00:28:42,019
[Don Ezra]: whether it’s volunteering a part time career carrying on et cetera there are a

500
00:28:42,099 –> 00:28:47,299
[Don Ezra]: whole bunch of things but there’s one aspect that my friends and even my kids’

501
00:28:47,119 –> 00:28:48,119
[Don Ezra]: generation

502
00:28:49,219 –> 00:28:51,219
[Don Ezra]: they were very amused by this and remembered it

503
00:28:52,579 –> 00:28:57,139
[Don Ezra]: there’s another aspect that’s very important if you have a life partner and that

504
00:28:57,219 –> 00:28:58,339
[Don Ezra]: is that there are two of you

505
00:28:59,379 –> 00:29:03,779
[Don Ezra]: and you are not just a couple you were also two two separate people and so

506
00:29:04,739 –> 00:29:09,619
[Don Ezra]: actually at my my my son’s my son’s wedding i i i i mentioned this to the gang

507
00:29:09,779 –> 00:29:13,779
[Don Ezra]: assemble there my son said say anything you like whatever you say will embarrass

508
00:29:13,779 –> 00:29:17,779
[Don Ezra]: me so just go ahead sorry i said okay so so here here are two circles

509
00:29:19,059 –> 00:29:23,379
[Don Ezra]: your set of interests and your partner set of interest and they have some overlap

510
00:29:24,339 –> 00:29:28,739
[Don Ezra]: and when you meet you notice the overlap and you get all soppy about it oh we

511
00:29:28,819 –> 00:29:33,139
[Don Ezra]: have so much in carbon et cetera et cetera et cetera and then later on you have

512
00:29:34,739 –> 00:29:38,819
[Don Ezra]: the outside bits sometimes if you have kids they get they get

513
00:29:40,179 –> 00:29:44,739
[Don Ezra]: the kids fill the the middle bit and you lose your chance to do your own outside

514
00:29:45,059 –> 00:29:49,779
[Don Ezra]: bit and then if with any luck the kids leave home one day you may find that the

515
00:29:49,859 –> 00:29:56,259
[Don Ezra]: middle overlapping bit is almost empty and that’s why again divorce goes up at

516
00:29:56,339 –> 00:30:02,019
[Don Ezra]: this kind of stage and so what you need to realize is that as i told them the

517
00:30:02,099 –> 00:30:06,339
[Don Ezra]: most romantic thing you can say to each other every anniversary as you hug each

518
00:30:06,419 –> 00:30:10,499
[Don Ezra]: other in kiss and express your love in whatever way you do if you can say in all

519
00:30:10,659 –> 00:30:15,059
[Don Ezra]: honesty to each other all the parts of our venn diagram are healthy

520
00:30:16,099 –> 00:30:19,699
[Don Ezra]: that is a very very romantic thing to say to each other if you can

521
00:30:19,500 –> 00:30:20,500
[Ramsey Smith]: sorry

522
00:30:20,099 –> 00:30:24,899
[Don Ezra]: and so you know the kids this but the whole idea of the venn diagram and keeping

523
00:30:25,139 –> 00:30:28,979
[Don Ezra]: all the parts of your venn diagram healthy in retirement not

524
00:30:28,740 –> 00:30:29,740
[Ramsey Smith]: just

525
00:30:29,219 –> 00:30:31,859
[Don Ezra]: just doing things together but doing things separately as well

526
00:30:32,899 –> 00:30:37,859
[Don Ezra]: is very very important because as i say until covid we didn’t have to spend our

527
00:30:38,099 –> 00:30:42,739
[Don Ezra]: time that much time together now we will have much more time together and so

528
00:30:42,899 –> 00:30:47,139
[Don Ezra]: getting that middle bit and allowing the fact that there are the two outer edges

529
00:30:46,839 –> 00:30:47,839
[Don Ezra]: as well

530
00:30:48,499 –> 00:30:53,379
[Don Ezra]: it’s perfectly legitimate for each person have their own outer edge and do their

531
00:30:53,459 –> 00:30:56,739
[Don Ezra]: own thing you don’t have to be a couple all the time you’re also two separate

532
00:30:56,819 –> 00:30:58,259
[Don Ezra]: people that’s very important

533
00:30:59,539 –> 00:31:03,699
[Don Ezra]: in planning your activities and that will also give a separate sense of purpose i

534
00:31:03,319 –> 00:31:04,319
[Don Ezra]: think

535
00:31:04,646 –> 00:31:09,126
[Paul Tyler]: and if we were to look at sort of the macro balance sheet for happiness and covid

536
00:31:09,206 –> 00:31:12,486
[Paul Tyler]: you kind of introduced it clearly disrupted a lot of people

537
00:31:13,526 –> 00:31:16,806
[Paul Tyler]: however i’ve seen studies and rams you i think i’m i’m sure if somebody’s

538
00:31:16,886 –> 00:31:18,566
[Paul Tyler]: mentioned this on our show or not where

539
00:31:20,086 –> 00:31:24,566
[Paul Tyler]: don you may know where they’ve done studies of people where they live where they

540
00:31:24,806 –> 00:31:29,046
[Paul Tyler]: work you know where their activities are and their life is the closer that

541
00:31:29,366 –> 00:31:34,806
[Paul Tyler]: cluster is in terms of sheer distance generally the happier are now clear some

542
00:31:34,826 –> 00:31:35,826
[Paul Tyler]: outliers people who

543
00:31:38,300 –> 00:31:39,300
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

544
00:31:38,486 –> 00:31:42,966
[Paul Tyler]: stayed together because they were not together but do you think this has brought

545
00:31:38,486 –> 00:31:42,966
[Paul Tyler]: stayed together because they were not together but do you think this has brought

546
00:31:43,206 –> 00:31:47,526
[Paul Tyler]: you know do you think happiness has gone up collectively as a result of kind of

547
00:31:43,206 –> 00:31:47,526
[Paul Tyler]: you know do you think happiness has gone up collectively as a result of kind of

548
00:31:47,846 –> 00:31:52,166
[Paul Tyler]: slowing down being all sort of parked and home or or you you couldn’t say

549
00:31:47,846 –> 00:31:52,166
[Paul Tyler]: slowing down being all sort of parked and home or or you you couldn’t say

550
00:31:52,259 –> 00:31:57,219
[Don Ezra]: i have absolutely no idea whatsoever this is something i would wait to see the

551
00:31:57,299 –> 00:32:01,779
[Don Ezra]: united nations happiness survey they do a survey every year and i would wait to

552
00:32:01,779 –> 00:32:05,299
[Don Ezra]: see the results and see not only is it gone up or down but are there some

553
00:32:05,379 –> 00:32:08,499
[Don Ezra]: countries where it’s gone up and somewhere it’s gone down etc and then see what

554
00:32:08,579 –> 00:32:10,979
[Don Ezra]: you learn from that i have i have absolutely no idea

555
00:32:12,019 –> 00:32:16,019
[Don Ezra]: but but i think it’s brought the notion that we are

556
00:32:16,100 –> 00:32:17,100
[Ramsey Smith]: i am

557
00:32:17,059 –> 00:32:18,419
[Don Ezra]: two people as well as a couple

558
00:32:19,439 –> 00:32:20,439
[Don Ezra]: um to the four

559
00:32:21,459 –> 00:32:25,699
[Don Ezra]: because we’ve been forced to confront that and for some people this is good and

560
00:32:25,779 –> 00:32:26,979
[Don Ezra]: for some people it’s not good

561
00:32:28,560 –> 00:32:35,600
[Ramsey Smith]: so you’ve now in this in this new chapter you you’re evangelizing this very

562
00:32:35,840 –> 00:32:40,080
[Ramsey Smith]: important these is very important concepts you’ve written written a book well

563
00:32:40,240 –> 00:32:44,880
[Ramsey Smith]: long book and then and a shorter version of it and you’ve got your blog how much

564
00:32:44,960 –> 00:32:50,640
[Ramsey Smith]: is this going to continue to be part of your activity to to spread this to spread

565
00:32:50,720 –> 00:32:53,200
[Ramsey Smith]: this knowledge in this philosophy sort of more broadly

566
00:32:54,259 –> 00:33:00,099
[Don Ezra]: oh i i love it i’m absolutely pathetic at selling always have been which is why i

567
00:33:00,319 –> 00:33:01,319
[Don Ezra]: became a consultant

568
00:33:02,339 –> 00:33:07,779
[Don Ezra]: and so i have no idea how to propagate this so i write for my own benefit

569
00:33:07,900 –> 00:33:08,900
[Ramsey Smith]: i like

570
00:33:08,579 –> 00:33:10,499
[Don Ezra]: i write to explain something to myself

571
00:33:10,340 –> 00:33:11,340
[Ramsey Smith]: i

572
00:33:11,239 –> 00:33:12,239
[Don Ezra]: i find that

573
00:33:11,780 –> 00:33:12,780
[Ramsey Smith]: think about

574
00:33:12,179 –> 00:33:14,419
[Don Ezra]: if you think about something and you think you know it

575
00:33:14,580 –> 00:33:15,580
[Ramsey Smith]: you watch

576
00:33:15,139 –> 00:33:19,459
[Don Ezra]: until you actually write it down you don’t really know it because writing slows

577
00:33:19,539 –> 00:33:25,779
[Don Ezra]: you down and you don’t go from a to d to m to x you go a b c d and suddenly you

578
00:33:25,859 –> 00:33:29,539
[Don Ezra]: find my god i may never get to m it because the logic is taking me somewhere else

579
00:33:29,779 –> 00:33:34,259
[Don Ezra]: so i write for myself so i write in the first person i because i’m doing the

580
00:33:34,499 –> 00:33:39,619
[Don Ezra]: explaining and the person i’m writing to is also myself that’s the i’ve got two

581
00:33:39,619 –> 00:33:43,939
[Don Ezra]: bodies i’m i’m the speaker and the listener and so when i say you that’s also me

582
00:33:43,879 –> 00:33:44,879
[Don Ezra]: and

583
00:33:44,020 –> 00:33:45,020
[Ramsey Smith]: work

584
00:33:44,499 –> 00:33:48,739
[Don Ezra]: then i write that stuff and at the end i see have i understood this or not have i

585
00:33:48,899 –> 00:33:54,099
[Don Ezra]: have i encountered a block or not so i just write for myself and when friends say

586
00:33:54,339 –> 00:33:58,419
[Don Ezra]: this is good stuff that got me started on you know put it together in a book et

587
00:33:58,419 –> 00:34:04,499
[Don Ezra]: cetera et cetera et cetera and so the fulfillment i get from from the website is

588
00:34:04,279 –> 00:34:05,279
[Don Ezra]: that every

589
00:34:04,660 –> 00:34:05,660
[Ramsey Smith]: years

590
00:34:05,139 –> 00:34:07,219
[Don Ezra]: now and again i don’t know every few months

591
00:34:07,180 –> 00:34:08,180
[Ramsey Smith]: so you

592
00:34:07,539 –> 00:34:11,539
[Don Ezra]: someone will write to me and say you know i’m in australia i’m in south africa

593
00:34:11,859 –> 00:34:15,619
[Don Ezra]: i’ve just done this i’ve just done that and you helped me enormously in this and

594
00:34:15,699 –> 00:34:19,299
[Don Ezra]: someone else once told me it was like being hit in the head by a two

595
00:34:18,986 –> 00:34:19,986
[Paul Tyler]: eight

596
00:34:19,459 –> 00:34:24,419
[Don Ezra]: by four i really have to do this and never realize it etc and those those are my

597
00:34:24,239 –> 00:34:25,239
[Don Ezra]: rewards

598
00:34:26,019 –> 00:34:27,539
[Don Ezra]: that that to me is the

599
00:34:27,466 –> 00:34:28,466
[Paul Tyler]: thank

600
00:34:27,619 –> 00:34:33,059
[Don Ezra]: feedback that says oh my god you’ve helped someone somewhere and i don’t know how

601
00:34:33,139 –> 00:34:36,659
[Don Ezra]: many people in my pension consulting career i actually

602
00:34:36,780 –> 00:34:37,780
[Ramsey Smith]: do you

603
00:34:36,979 –> 00:34:43,139
[Don Ezra]: helped i i may have helped institutions i did not help people and my life is now

604
00:34:43,699 –> 00:34:48,019
[Don Ezra]: people oriented as opposed to institution oriented my focus has changed from

605
00:34:48,179 –> 00:34:51,139
[Don Ezra]: institutional investing and finance to individual

606
00:34:51,980 –> 00:34:52,980
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know

607
00:34:52,099 –> 00:34:58,339
[Don Ezra]: investing in finance and happiness and that’s that’s in a way my my my purpose

608
00:34:58,380 –> 00:34:59,380
[Ramsey Smith]: oh that

609
00:34:59,619 –> 00:35:00,899
[Don Ezra]: and and that as i say

610
00:35:02,499 –> 00:35:07,219
[Don Ezra]: that will that i hope will create some kind of emotional legacy that goes beyond

611
00:35:07,379 –> 00:35:10,819
[Don Ezra]: family and friends to people who read it and say my god that really helped i

612
00:35:10,979 –> 00:35:16,099
[Don Ezra]: really like that thank you and that’s that’s my reward and i’m i’m absolutely

613
00:35:16,179 –> 00:35:21,779
[Don Ezra]: thrilled with it and if if the book doesn’t sell i really don’t care i mean

614
00:35:21,500 –> 00:35:22,500
[Ramsey Smith]: hm

615
00:35:22,179 –> 00:35:25,939
[Don Ezra]: once as far as i’m concerned i mean i had a best selling book pension fund

616
00:35:26,019 –> 00:35:30,019
[Don Ezra]: excellence that’s sold ten thousand plus copies which is an awful lot in these

617
00:35:30,099 –> 00:35:32,259
[Don Ezra]: terms my my happiness and and

618
00:35:32,180 –> 00:35:33,180
[Ramsey Smith]: smoke

619
00:35:32,499 –> 00:35:37,859
[Don Ezra]: and life two books have each sold a thousand plus copies and if it hits a

620
00:35:37,939 –> 00:35:40,259
[Don Ezra]: thousand i’ve been absolutely thrilled with that

621
00:35:40,666 –> 00:35:41,666
[Paul Tyler]: i

622
00:35:40,819 –> 00:35:45,299
[Don Ezra]: totally thrilled that’s a success to me best seller list hell no not a chance

623
00:35:45,539 –> 00:35:50,019
[Don Ezra]: forget it but that’s not the goal the goal is self satisfaction in learning

624
00:35:51,539 –> 00:35:56,979
[Don Ezra]: in being able to keep learning and to explain and every now and again something

625
00:35:57,299 –> 00:36:00,899
[Don Ezra]: gets through to someone that’s m that’s my that’s my reward

626
00:36:00,806 –> 00:36:05,846
[Paul Tyler]: oh this is great now the book is called life two love the title we will put a

627
00:36:05,926 –> 00:36:10,886
[Paul Tyler]: link in our show notes and we i know don will sell a few more for you so

628
00:36:11,626 –> 00:36:12,626
[Paul Tyler]: love

629
00:36:11,959 –> 00:36:12,959
[Don Ezra]: thank you

630
00:36:12,326 –> 00:36:14,166
[Paul Tyler]: to put a zero on that but you know we’ll look

631
00:36:14,239 –> 00:36:15,239
[Don Ezra]: thank you

632
00:36:15,046 –> 00:36:18,726
[Paul Tyler]: think i don’t ramsay any what are your final thoughts or questions for don

633
00:36:19,280 –> 00:36:23,760
[Ramsey Smith]: no i think we i think we i think we covered it i think we covered the the key

634
00:36:23,920 –> 00:36:27,920
[Ramsey Smith]: elements there’s really this existential link between

635
00:36:29,040 –> 00:36:31,760
[Ramsey Smith]: quality of life issues identity activity and

636
00:36:32,800 –> 00:36:37,680
[Ramsey Smith]: money decisions and money happiness and and that’s really where we really really

637
00:36:37,840 –> 00:36:39,920
[Ramsey Smith]: nailed that today so thanks thanks for coming don

638
00:36:39,986 –> 00:36:40,986
[Paul Tyler]: yeah dawn

639
00:36:41,219 –> 00:36:45,059
[Don Ezra]: my pleasure my pleasure you made this very may i say you’ve made this very easy

640
00:36:45,379 –> 00:36:50,739
[Don Ezra]: for me i am a i i do this a lot but i am a very very very nervous performer and

641
00:36:50,819 –> 00:36:53,219
[Don Ezra]: you have made this an absolute joy thank you

642
00:36:52,586 –> 00:36:53,586
[Paul Tyler]: oh no thank

643
00:36:53,740 –> 00:36:54,740
[Ramsey Smith]: our pleasure

644
00:36:53,846 –> 00:36:58,326
[Paul Tyler]: thank you our pleasure and uh all our listeners thanks for listening check out

645
00:36:58,226 –> 00:36:59,226
[Paul Tyler]: the show notes

646
00:37:00,566 –> 00:37:04,326
[Paul Tyler]: buy the book look at the website reach out to don we’ll put some links here and

647
00:37:04,486 –> 00:37:08,086
[Paul Tyler]: join us again next week for another episode of that annuity show

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 147: Preparing for Life 2 With Don Ezra

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