2022

Episode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2

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The SECURE Act reinvigorated interest in expanding the market for in-plan annuities. However, we need to make many more changes to really drive adoption. In part one of a two part series, Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain of the newly renamed firm, Annuity Research & Consulting, share their roadmap for future success.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-richter/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-chamberlain-33349a14/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show and we’ve

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[paul_tyler]: got our great set up hosts here

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: bruno welcome

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[bruno_caron]: thank

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[bruno_caron]: you

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[paul_tyler]: from canada ramsey

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[paul_tyler]: from atlanta

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[ramsey_d_smith]: always great to be here

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[paul_tyler]: tis and where are you from where
are you

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i am in hartford connecticut today good
morning

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[paul_tyler]: thanks broadcasting from the basement i know

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[bruno_caron]: uh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: basement

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[paul_tyler]: which i’ve

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: boat building

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[bruno_caron]: h

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[paul_tyler]: spacemen of the boat bill and i’m
obviously in just outside new york

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: we have great

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeh

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[paul_tyler]: guests okay in fact record set appearances
by none other and michelle

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: rector co founder founder co founder

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: of nuity research and consultant with her
co founder mark chamberlain michelle and mark welcome

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank

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[michelle_richter]: you

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[mark_chamberlain]: you

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[michelle_richter]: so much

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: for having us

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[paul_tyler]: okay so before we dive

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[michelle_richter]: very exciting

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[paul_tyler]: in

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[michelle_richter]: to be here

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[paul_tyler]: i know you you have a message
i know which will want to get to

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[paul_tyler]: before we do that

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: okay you change your name a

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[mark_chamberlain]: m

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[paul_tyler]: little bit with your firm tell us
what are you doing what’s just maybe a

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[paul_tyler]: thumbnail sketch

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: of your company you’re in your what
you re

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[michelle_richter]: sure

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[paul_tyler]: doing for a lot of good companies

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: we’re doing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: annuity research and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: m so we got really clever with
the name and we

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[mark_chamberlain]: yah

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[michelle_richter]: called it annuity research

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h m

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[michelle_richter]: but like like lame insurance people would

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[michelle_richter]: but but in all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: seriousness you know what what we’re up
to is an intention to bridge the communities

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[michelle_richter]: between plan advisors and between those who
are expert in the insurance space so we

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[michelle_richter]: very much have an intention of education

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: of advocacy and of providing information for
plan

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: advisors to then be able to safely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: recommend solutions that include ensure and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: solutions in plan

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: um and i’d love to let mark
kind of tag

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: along there to add to that thought
about our corporate vision

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[mark_chamberlain]: sure well good morning pleasure to be
with you and i’ve watched many episodes of

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[mark_chamberlain]: this

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: show by the way so i’ve enjoyed

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[paul_tyler]: oh thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: welcome

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank you i got started down this
path in two thousand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: alking with paul just a bit before
the show at the time i had just

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[mark_chamberlain]: joined the ice sirs business before the
launch and

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: went down to san

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: diego to meet with

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: a company called frontier analytics which is
a software

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[mark_chamberlain]: company

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: back then it was providing the asset
class optimization technology for a lot of the

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[mark_chamberlain]: broker dealer you know investment advisory platform

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[michelle_richter]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: and at the time

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: index funds in general weren’t well integrated
into those systems they were primarily selling active

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[mark_chamberlain]: mutual funds and separate account managers and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: e

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: ts weren’t integrated at all so that
was the challenge back then in two thousand

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[mark_chamberlain]: and on the board of that company
was harry marko wits and so i got

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[mark_chamberlain]: to meet him that day and was
invited back for a second meeting and the

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[mark_chamberlain]: topic that day was how do we
integrate annuities and mortality pooling into an acid

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[mark_chamberlain]: application optimization that was two thousand

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[mark_chamberlain]: so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: we are in twenty twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: two in the industry still has not
figured that out and so when black rod

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[mark_chamberlain]: bought the ice sears business in in
well bought all of b in two thus

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[mark_chamberlain]: and nine and a lot of us
who had started the company or started the

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[mark_chamberlain]: business rather

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: parishooted out at that point i was
looking for a similar challenge for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: you know how do we

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: help the industry move forward and what’s
the next place to do that and so

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[mark_chamberlain]: i got started on trying to solve
the innuitization puzzle back in two thousand and

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[mark_chamberlain]: ten

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[mark_chamberlain]: and

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[paul_tyler]: yea

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[mark_chamberlain]: michelle recruited me

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: this past summer we were both presenting
at

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: a at a conference for the new
board it’s the new center for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: board certified feduciaries which is as something
that was begun by a don trone who

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[mark_chamberlain]: originally founded f i three sixty and
the class was on integrating annuities into de

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[mark_chamberlain]: plants and shell and i both taught
classes at that at that at that particular

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: three day conference and she recruited me
to come help her try to try to

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[mark_chamberlain]: start a company to solve the problem

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: so that’s that’s the longer history of
how we got together

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know it’s fascinating this business how
many amazing people touch and and drive so

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[paul_tyler]: many different career paths so yeah mark
wits wow

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[michelle_richter]: ye

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[paul_tyler]: how cool is that so michelle tell
don’t be bashful i know you are

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: just

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[michelle_richter]: complete

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: you are

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[paul_tyler]: not never

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: said no one especially

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[paul_tyler]: no one on linked in ever

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: said that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[paul_tyler]: so all right

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: how should we be looking at the
future of annuities okay future anuities in plan

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[paul_tyler]: futures of annuity you tell

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[michelle_richter]: a

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[paul_tyler]: us

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah so so from from my point
of view what what i’m seeing you know

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[michelle_richter]: uh

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: with part of my time represent the
institutional

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: retirement income council which is think a
non profit think tank operating in the defined

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[michelle_richter]: contribution space

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: and my opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[michelle_richter]: that i express here today are necessarily
my own and not for say comforting with

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[michelle_richter]: those of either the iris or any
of its member companies okay but so in

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[michelle_richter]: this position i hear a lot about
what going on in space and and i

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[michelle_richter]: also facilitate consortion of retirement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: income providers that has been established through

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: broad ridge f three sixty um so
so i have the opportunity to hear a

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[michelle_richter]: lot of what’s going on behind the
scenes as the industry really prepares for what

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[michelle_richter]: is expected to be massive movement towards
annuities and plan some of the attributes that

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[michelle_richter]: i see as necessary right now for
this field to take off include um annuities

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[michelle_richter]: need to be included within what in
the qualify or in the d c d

219
00:06:59,189 –> 00:07:01,813
[michelle_richter]: c being defined contribution by the way
space

220
00:07:02,216 –> 00:07:02,297
[paul_tyler]: ah

221
00:07:02,995 –> 00:07:10,427
[michelle_richter]: you know we we need for annuities
to be incorporated into qualified default investment alternatives

222
00:07:10,908 –> 00:07:14,354
[michelle_richter]: for them with offdout provisions of course
for them to

223
00:07:14,405 –> 00:07:14,426
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

224
00:07:14,434 –> 00:07:16,542
[michelle_richter]: have real main stream success

225
00:07:17,735 –> 00:07:17,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

226
00:07:17,946 –> 00:07:21,792
[michelle_richter]: we need data for mat standardization

227
00:07:20,666 –> 00:07:20,686
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

228
00:07:22,113 –> 00:07:23,475
[michelle_richter]: to be undertaken

229
00:07:23,165 –> 00:07:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

230
00:07:24,116 –> 00:07:25,198
[michelle_richter]: by an industry

231
00:07:25,218 –> 00:07:25,519
[bruno_caron]: oh

232
00:07:25,398 –> 00:07:27,021
[michelle_richter]: organization like

233
00:07:26,947 –> 00:07:27,108
[bruno_caron]: yeah

234
00:07:27,201 –> 00:07:34,794
[michelle_richter]: spark for example it is the industry
organization for record keepers and it is in

235
00:07:34,914 –> 00:07:36,757
[michelle_richter]: conversation with libra

236
00:07:37,810 –> 00:07:37,954
[bruno_caron]: yeah

237
00:07:38,039 –> 00:07:38,420
[michelle_richter]: about

238
00:07:38,186 –> 00:07:38,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

239
00:07:38,700 –> 00:07:45,852
[michelle_richter]: how to accomplish some of those jectives
where because historically you know record keepers didn’t

240
00:07:45,972 –> 00:07:50,740
[michelle_richter]: talk to annuity companies and annuity companies
didn’t talk to record keepers so

241
00:07:50,696 –> 00:07:52,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

242
00:07:50,861 –> 00:07:59,735
[michelle_richter]: that to the data connactivitythat is necessary
for reporting annuity elements it benefit elements to

243
00:07:59,876 –> 00:08:03,061
[michelle_richter]: the end participant like that infrastructure

244
00:08:02,816 –> 00:08:03,565
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

245
00:08:03,261 –> 00:08:10,273
[michelle_richter]: isn’t there yet so some of that
is needs to be addressed for there to

246
00:08:10,333 –> 00:08:14,139
[michelle_richter]: be a wide scale and then lastly
fiduciary

247
00:08:13,496 –> 00:08:13,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

248
00:08:14,240 –> 00:08:20,811
[michelle_richter]: concerns need to be satisfied because plan
sponsors and those who advise them serve in

249
00:08:20,851 –> 00:08:29,004
[michelle_richter]: a fiduciary capacity and the concerns that
i’m hearing about how advisors can introduce annuities

250
00:08:29,325 –> 00:08:30,607
[michelle_richter]: plan are

251
00:08:30,695 –> 00:08:30,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

252
00:08:31,328 –> 00:08:39,782
[michelle_richter]: more materially about ongoing monitoring than they
are about initial introduction where there’s there is

253
00:08:39,882 –> 00:08:49,498
[michelle_richter]: certainly a need within the plan advisory
community to get access to basic information about

254
00:08:49,819 –> 00:08:56,227
[michelle_richter]: about products but our product our industries
products but but i am hearing as i

255
00:08:56,287 –> 00:09:00,611
[michelle_richter]: said less concerned about how to get
enough information to be able to make an

256
00:09:00,671 –> 00:09:00,991
[michelle_richter]: initial

257
00:09:00,678 –> 00:09:01,668
[bruno_caron]: yeah

258
00:09:00,866 –> 00:09:01,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

259
00:09:01,051 –> 00:09:02,653
[michelle_richter]: recommendation than i

260
00:09:02,756 –> 00:09:03,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

261
00:09:02,873 –> 00:09:06,778
[michelle_richter]: am about things like how will i
know what renewal

262
00:09:06,746 –> 00:09:06,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

263
00:09:06,898 –> 00:09:08,661
[michelle_richter]: rates on indexinuities

264
00:09:08,546 –> 00:09:08,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

265
00:09:08,861 –> 00:09:14,611
[michelle_richter]: actually turn out to be since i’m
making this recommendation that needs to be monitored

266
00:09:14,671 –> 00:09:19,931
[michelle_richter]: on an ongoing basis so this the
kind of information that’s going to be necessary

267
00:09:20,665 –> 00:09:27,516
[michelle_richter]: within the plan advisory community for our
product lines to take off and it’s looking

268
00:09:27,616 –> 00:09:29,539
[michelle_richter]: to me like that’s going to be
the case

269
00:09:29,868 –> 00:09:29,888
[bruno_caron]: m

270
00:09:30,181 –> 00:09:37,460
[michelle_richter]: so we should all prepare accordingly um
i’d like to let mark pitch you on

271
00:09:37,540 –> 00:09:38,101
[michelle_richter]: why we should

272
00:09:38,126 –> 00:09:38,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

273
00:09:38,161 –> 00:09:39,363
[michelle_richter]: all prepare accordingly

274
00:09:39,146 –> 00:09:40,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

275
00:09:39,543 –> 00:09:44,772
[michelle_richter]: because you know my view is that
you know as it stands right now and

276
00:09:45,192 –> 00:09:46,955
[michelle_richter]: i’ll go deeper on this a couple
of

277
00:09:46,946 –> 00:09:46,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

278
00:09:46,995 –> 00:09:52,384
[michelle_richter]: minutes but you know as the community
stands right now amongst

279
00:09:52,608 –> 00:09:52,871
[bruno_caron]: oh

280
00:09:52,625 –> 00:09:58,935
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors as i mentioned plan advisors
they advise plans d c plans

281
00:09:59,036 –> 00:09:59,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

282
00:09:59,095 –> 00:10:02,838
[michelle_richter]: are inherently accumulation focused it’s never been
the

283
00:10:02,795 –> 00:10:02,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

284
00:10:02,919 –> 00:10:11,668
[michelle_richter]: responsibility of a plan advisor to understand
decumulation because historically plant sponsors did not want

285
00:10:11,768 –> 00:10:12,409
[michelle_richter]: to retain

286
00:10:12,296 –> 00:10:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

287
00:10:12,650 –> 00:10:19,862
[michelle_richter]: assets through participants retirement but that dynamic
has changed dramatically in the last five to

288
00:10:19,922 –> 00:10:25,251
[michelle_richter]: ten years and it’s it in large
part of function of record keeping fee structures

289
00:10:26,413 –> 00:10:31,962
[michelle_richter]: and there being economies of scale to
keeping participants in plan but it also has

290
00:10:32,042 –> 00:10:37,511
[michelle_richter]: to do with some regulatority since um
and it just is the case now that

291
00:10:37,631 –> 00:10:41,939
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors need to become more expert
and how to address the

292
00:10:41,908 –> 00:10:42,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

293
00:10:41,979 –> 00:10:46,049
[michelle_richter]: decumulation phase so this whole um

294
00:10:46,246 –> 00:10:46,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: michele i’ve

295
00:10:46,734 –> 00:10:46,754
[michelle_richter]: m

296
00:10:46,746 –> 00:10:47,207
[ramsey_d_smith]: got a i’ve

297
00:10:47,237 –> 00:10:47,742
[michelle_richter]: community

298
00:10:47,247 –> 00:10:48,369
[ramsey_d_smith]: got i’ve got a quick

299
00:10:48,288 –> 00:10:48,449
[michelle_richter]: yeah

300
00:10:48,429 –> 00:10:48,730
[ramsey_d_smith]: question

301
00:10:48,480 –> 00:10:48,520
[bruno_caron]: a

302
00:10:48,790 –> 00:10:49,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: if if

303
00:10:49,216 –> 00:10:49,318
[michelle_richter]: oh

304
00:10:49,271 –> 00:10:50,192
[ramsey_d_smith]: i may because i think

305
00:10:50,178 –> 00:10:50,441
[bruno_caron]: oh

306
00:10:50,785 –> 00:10:51,027
[michelle_richter]: yes

307
00:10:50,873 –> 00:10:51,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s there’s

308
00:10:51,329 –> 00:10:51,651
[michelle_richter]: please

309
00:10:51,474 –> 00:10:57,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: two interesting elements of what you’ve just
said so one is let’s talk a little

310
00:10:57,144 –> 00:11:00,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: bit about what is it plan advisor
look like right so right

311
00:11:00,759 –> 00:11:00,841
[michelle_richter]: ah

312
00:11:00,770 –> 00:11:00,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: there

313
00:11:00,773 –> 00:11:01,463
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

314
00:11:01,050 –> 00:11:01,491
[ramsey_d_smith]: there there’s

315
00:11:01,476 –> 00:11:01,557
[michelle_richter]: ah

316
00:11:01,531 –> 00:11:06,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: a broad spectrum of four one k
plans the small ones they’re big ones so

317
00:11:07,381 –> 00:11:12,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: we talk about plan advisors we’re talking
about r a are we talking about sort

318
00:11:12,270 –> 00:11:13,713
[ramsey_d_smith]: of large consultancies

319
00:11:13,605 –> 00:11:13,846
[michelle_richter]: yeah

320
00:11:13,813 –> 00:11:15,456
[ramsey_d_smith]: like like like a milliment or

321
00:11:15,814 –> 00:11:15,975
[michelle_richter]: yeah

322
00:11:15,857 –> 00:11:17,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: what is the what is the what
is the scope

323
00:11:18,145 –> 00:11:18,347
[michelle_richter]: yes

324
00:11:18,442 –> 00:11:19,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: people that we’re talking

325
00:11:19,125 –> 00:11:19,289
[michelle_richter]: oh

326
00:11:19,264 –> 00:11:19,444
[ramsey_d_smith]: about

327
00:11:20,666 –> 00:11:21,968
[michelle_richter]: the answer is yes and yes

328
00:11:22,116 –> 00:11:22,136
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

329
00:11:22,409 –> 00:11:23,290
[michelle_richter]: right so the

330
00:11:24,326 –> 00:11:24,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

331
00:11:24,672 –> 00:11:28,158
[michelle_richter]: the people who serve plans can can
be

332
00:11:28,985 –> 00:11:29,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

333
00:11:29,260 –> 00:11:29,701
[michelle_richter]: typically

334
00:11:29,726 –> 00:11:29,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

335
00:11:29,821 –> 00:11:31,764
[michelle_richter]: larger plans work with a

336
00:11:32,006 –> 00:11:32,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:11:32,025 –> 00:11:33,046
[michelle_richter]: sultan that has

338
00:11:33,154 –> 00:11:33,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

339
00:11:33,487 –> 00:11:33,687
[michelle_richter]: home

340
00:11:33,626 –> 00:11:33,909
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:11:33,808 –> 00:11:37,975
[michelle_richter]: office support working for an organization

342
00:11:37,899 –> 00:11:37,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

343
00:11:38,135 –> 00:11:41,320
[michelle_richter]: that is principally focused on plan advisement

344
00:11:42,005 –> 00:11:42,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

345
00:11:42,482 –> 00:11:47,010
[michelle_richter]: whereas retirement and advisors so so you’d
call those people consultants

346
00:11:47,360 –> 00:11:47,381
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

347
00:11:47,651 –> 00:11:48,292
[michelle_richter]: whereas you’d

348
00:11:48,215 –> 00:11:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

349
00:11:48,372 –> 00:11:48,572
[michelle_richter]: call

350
00:11:48,498 –> 00:11:48,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

351
00:11:48,692 –> 00:11:55,404
[michelle_richter]: an advisor a person who probably works
with a smaller shop and may be on

352
00:11:55,464 –> 00:11:59,877
[michelle_richter]: their own um and that always is
performed

353
00:11:59,450 –> 00:11:59,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

354
00:11:59,977 –> 00:12:01,683
[michelle_richter]: through a registered investment advisor

355
00:12:02,327 –> 00:12:03,090
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what would be the

356
00:12:03,026 –> 00:12:05,253
[michelle_richter]: but but they’re not per se wealth
managers

357
00:12:05,236 –> 00:12:09,741
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure and what and what sort of
size of what size of plans would they

358
00:12:09,801 –> 00:12:10,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: be typically

359
00:12:11,475 –> 00:12:11,717
[michelle_richter]: yeah

360
00:12:12,044 –> 00:12:12,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: advising

361
00:12:12,323 –> 00:12:12,444
[michelle_richter]: yeah

362
00:12:13,596 –> 00:12:13,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: a park

363
00:12:14,207 –> 00:12:18,414
[michelle_richter]: so the consultants might be looking in
the billion dollar range

364
00:12:18,299 –> 00:12:18,319
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

365
00:12:18,447 –> 00:12:18,468
[bruno_caron]: m

366
00:12:18,534 –> 00:12:19,916
[michelle_richter]: right and advisors

367
00:12:19,715 –> 00:12:19,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

368
00:12:20,036 –> 00:12:24,884
[michelle_richter]: are you know likely addressing the market
below that i mean that certainly

369
00:12:25,208 –> 00:12:25,432
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

370
00:12:25,405 –> 00:12:27,009
[michelle_richter]: a hard and fast rule but

371
00:12:27,896 –> 00:12:28,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

372
00:12:28,031 –> 00:12:29,233
[michelle_richter]: you know ball park

373
00:12:29,486 –> 00:12:33,453
[ramsey_d_smith]: so so the next next piece is
that i think it’s very interesting following that

374
00:12:33,533 –> 00:12:38,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: is the the it’s it’s it’s an
important business for a lot of r s

375
00:12:39,443 –> 00:12:43,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what you’re saying is that where
before it might have been a business that

376
00:12:43,721 –> 00:12:50,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: was that was limited to sort of
the accumulation phase now there’s this retention opportunity

377
00:12:51,237 –> 00:12:55,524
[ramsey_d_smith]: all the way into retirement it’s an
important business opportunity as well for that for

378
00:12:55,544 –> 00:12:57,111
[ramsey_d_smith]: that aeneisthatis that fair statement

379
00:12:58,806 –> 00:13:03,434
[michelle_richter]: it is a fair statement and it
is half of the reason why i’m here

380
00:13:03,514 –> 00:13:04,796
[michelle_richter]: today it’s because

381
00:13:04,458 –> 00:13:04,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

382
00:13:04,876 –> 00:13:06,599
[michelle_richter]: i believe that my people

383
00:13:06,326 –> 00:13:06,748
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

384
00:13:06,759 –> 00:13:08,642
[michelle_richter]: have a place within this community

385
00:13:08,817 –> 00:13:08,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

386
00:13:09,664 –> 00:13:10,906
[michelle_richter]: it the case that

387
00:13:10,840 –> 00:13:10,860
[bruno_caron]: i

388
00:13:11,627 –> 00:13:15,013
[michelle_richter]: retirement plan advisors don’t know annuities right

389
00:13:15,116 –> 00:13:15,357
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

390
00:13:15,193 –> 00:13:21,864
[michelle_richter]: with everybody certainly knows that that’s the
case and arica does require for experts

391
00:13:21,858 –> 00:13:22,616
[bruno_caron]: ye

392
00:13:22,045 –> 00:13:27,834
[michelle_richter]: who are advising a plan if they
do not have experts in a certain arena

393
00:13:27,914 –> 00:13:33,644
[michelle_richter]: that they think is important for the
plan then an every side adviser is required

394
00:13:33,744 –> 00:13:34,726
[michelle_richter]: to contract with

395
00:13:34,766 –> 00:13:35,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

396
00:13:34,786 –> 00:13:42,158
[michelle_richter]: an outside expert to to give them
guidance on how to review those you know

397
00:13:42,198 –> 00:13:50,212
[michelle_richter]: those solutions so you know from my
view i think that there is a need

398
00:13:50,612 –> 00:13:59,748
[michelle_richter]: for insurance experts to get ready to
help plan advisors to evaluate insurance contract that’s

399
00:13:59,828 –> 00:14:04,015
[michelle_richter]: at the heart of what mark and
i will be doing as early as february

400
00:14:03,995 –> 00:14:04,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

401
00:14:04,776 –> 00:14:06,038
[michelle_richter]: and and i

402
00:14:06,149 –> 00:14:06,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

403
00:14:06,178 –> 00:14:08,202
[michelle_richter]: feel that we will not

404
00:14:08,036 –> 00:14:08,278
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

405
00:14:08,302 –> 00:14:11,347
[michelle_richter]: be able to dress all of the
demand

406
00:14:11,246 –> 00:14:11,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

407
00:14:11,527 –> 00:14:16,375
[michelle_richter]: ourselves for such services because plan advisors
do not

408
00:14:16,304 –> 00:14:16,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:14:16,455 –> 00:14:24,611
[michelle_richter]: have that expertise my imagination is that
building models or that kind of expertise will

410
00:14:24,772 –> 00:14:32,178
[michelle_richter]: be hourly or project based or subscription
based and so if that is the case

411
00:14:32,559 –> 00:14:38,248
[michelle_richter]: here cannot be commissions paid in an
aria context so it seems to me

412
00:14:38,156 –> 00:14:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:14:38,449 –> 00:14:41,113
[michelle_richter]: that the guidance that is going to
be necessary

414
00:14:40,766 –> 00:14:41,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

415
00:14:41,213 –> 00:14:42,375
[michelle_richter]: is going to be livered

416
00:14:42,725 –> 00:14:42,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

417
00:14:42,816 –> 00:14:45,220
[michelle_richter]: v one of the mechanisms i just
described

418
00:14:45,515 –> 00:14:45,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

419
00:14:45,618 –> 00:14:45,699
[paul_tyler]: ay

420
00:14:45,821 –> 00:14:47,764
[michelle_richter]: and to me it appears that the

421
00:14:47,898 –> 00:14:47,918
[bruno_caron]: m

422
00:14:47,964 –> 00:14:50,388
[michelle_richter]: form of entity qualified to do such

423
00:14:50,273 –> 00:14:50,495
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

424
00:14:50,689 –> 00:14:56,539
[michelle_richter]: is an r a m and that’s
the reason why i have used my for

425
00:14:56,579 –> 00:14:59,604
[michelle_richter]: that purpose and and i

426
00:14:59,876 –> 00:15:00,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

427
00:14:59,924 –> 00:15:01,467
[michelle_richter]: think that plan advisers

428
00:15:01,001 –> 00:15:01,084
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

429
00:15:01,607 –> 00:15:06,896
[michelle_richter]: will desire for the counter party that
they interact with to also b fiduciary

430
00:15:07,195 –> 00:15:07,357
[paul_tyler]: yeah

431
00:15:07,838 –> 00:15:14,449
[michelle_richter]: an annuity fediciary for which i applied
for a trade mark because insurance fiduciary is

432
00:15:14,649 –> 00:15:21,082
[michelle_richter]: already trade marked by one man who
will prevent others from using that mark who

433
00:15:21,262 –> 00:15:25,412
[michelle_richter]: did in fact do so with me
which is the reason why my entity is

434
00:15:25,512 –> 00:15:25,933
[michelle_richter]: renamed

435
00:15:26,399 –> 00:15:26,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: other

436
00:15:26,588 –> 00:15:26,772
[paul_tyler]: work

437
00:15:26,620 –> 00:15:28,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: than owning the name does he actually
perform that function

438
00:15:31,406 –> 00:15:32,490
[michelle_richter]: i decline to comment

439
00:15:32,286 –> 00:15:32,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

440
00:15:32,590 –> 00:15:33,293
[michelle_richter]: on the individual

441
00:15:33,749 –> 00:15:33,949
[ramsey_d_smith]: i just

442
00:15:34,067 –> 00:15:34,288
[paul_tyler]: okay

443
00:15:34,350 –> 00:15:34,451
[ramsey_d_smith]: just

444
00:15:34,749 –> 00:15:35,732
[paul_tyler]: well and let me

445
00:15:35,693 –> 00:15:35,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: go

446
00:15:35,773 –> 00:15:35,913
[paul_tyler]: just

447
00:15:35,814 –> 00:15:35,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead

448
00:15:36,475 –> 00:15:38,381
[paul_tyler]: be even a little more specific for
a listener so

449
00:15:38,605 –> 00:15:42,652
[michelle_richter]: i hold a patent my former employer
holds a patent

450
00:15:42,473 –> 00:15:42,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

451
00:15:42,792 –> 00:15:44,135
[michelle_richter]: on intellectual property

452
00:15:44,186 –> 00:15:44,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:15:44,275 –> 00:15:51,908
[michelle_richter]: that i invented imbedding life insurance and
annuities into holistic acid application to challenge mark

454
00:15:52,629 –> 00:15:54,592
[michelle_richter]: who said that it can be done

455
00:15:54,657 –> 00:15:54,678
[bruno_caron]: m

456
00:15:54,732 –> 00:15:55,614
[michelle_richter]: it can be done

457
00:15:55,526 –> 00:15:55,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

458
00:15:56,075 –> 00:16:01,704
[michelle_richter]: it was done and yet i cannot
call myself an insurance fiduciary i can call

459
00:16:01,804 –> 00:16:02,568
[michelle_richter]: myself an annuity

460
00:16:02,594 –> 00:16:03,002
[paul_tyler]: uh

461
00:16:02,628 –> 00:16:03,131
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

462
00:16:04,174 –> 00:16:10,845
[paul_tyler]: well and i’ll say for my experience
providing financial planning

463
00:16:10,826 –> 00:16:11,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

464
00:16:10,986 –> 00:16:14,932
[paul_tyler]: support inside of corporate structure is immensely
complicated only from

465
00:16:14,876 –> 00:16:14,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

466
00:16:14,972 –> 00:16:17,657
[paul_tyler]: a legal perspect but a practical perspective

467
00:16:17,195 –> 00:16:17,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

468
00:16:17,737 –> 00:16:18,558
[paul_tyler]: of working with a

469
00:16:18,623 –> 00:16:18,643
[mark_chamberlain]: m

470
00:16:18,638 –> 00:16:23,406
[paul_tyler]: wide variety of employes so when you
talk about a plan advisor or an annuity

471
00:16:23,526 –> 00:16:30,658
[paul_tyler]: specialist is the client the and sponsor
or is the client the individuals and the

472
00:16:30,698 –> 00:16:33,242
[paul_tyler]: corporation or individuals inside the plan

473
00:16:35,228 –> 00:16:41,754
[michelle_richter]: i it’s a great question i would
argue there’s three clients there is the plan

474
00:16:41,814 –> 00:16:44,619
[michelle_richter]: advisor who makes the determination

475
00:16:44,036 –> 00:16:44,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

476
00:16:44,719 –> 00:16:46,843
[michelle_richter]: of how to select other service providers

477
00:16:46,406 –> 00:16:46,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

478
00:16:47,764 –> 00:16:53,996
[michelle_richter]: there the plan itself and there are
the participants in the plan and the person

479
00:16:54,076 –> 00:16:58,404
[michelle_richter]: who’s giving the guidance has to be
thinking about all of those constituencies

480
00:17:00,266 –> 00:17:01,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

481
00:17:00,914 –> 00:17:05,402
[paul_tyler]: i guess is that is that like
is that possible right i think of the

482
00:17:06,023 –> 00:17:11,111
[paul_tyler]: thou think of the challenge s just
to get the enrollment you mentioned i think

483
00:17:11,351 –> 00:17:13,617
[paul_tyler]: michelle you favor an din into this

484
00:17:13,770 –> 00:17:13,991
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

485
00:17:14,158 –> 00:17:15,221
[paul_tyler]: into the process

486
00:17:15,317 –> 00:17:17,069
[michelle_richter]: yeah i favor

487
00:17:16,828 –> 00:17:17,010
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

488
00:17:17,170 –> 00:17:17,532
[michelle_richter]: up doubt

489
00:17:17,794 –> 00:17:21,735
[paul_tyler]: ped out lopped out perfect world

490
00:17:21,836 –> 00:17:21,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

491
00:17:21,875 –> 00:17:22,336
[paul_tyler]: what’s the

492
00:17:22,648 –> 00:17:24,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm oh

493
00:17:23,818 –> 00:17:24,539
[paul_tyler]: ramsey gives us

494
00:17:24,678 –> 00:17:25,338
[bruno_caron]: yeah

495
00:17:24,720 –> 00:17:25,421
[paul_tyler]: the tuns up on

496
00:17:25,376 –> 00:17:25,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:17:25,461 –> 00:17:25,782
[paul_tyler]: that one

498
00:17:26,298 –> 00:17:26,765
[bruno_caron]: uh

499
00:17:26,885 –> 00:17:26,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

500
00:17:27,384 –> 00:17:27,685
[paul_tyler]: perfect

501
00:17:27,537 –> 00:17:27,558
[bruno_caron]: h

502
00:17:27,785 –> 00:17:28,065
[paul_tyler]: world

503
00:17:28,076 –> 00:17:29,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

504
00:17:28,787 –> 00:17:30,249
[paul_tyler]: what is that number like

505
00:17:30,678 –> 00:17:31,398
[bruno_caron]: yeah

506
00:17:30,730 –> 00:17:31,531
[paul_tyler]: does everybody have

507
00:17:31,673 –> 00:17:31,693
[mark_chamberlain]: m

508
00:17:32,235 –> 00:17:32,457
[michelle_richter]: oh

509
00:17:32,513 –> 00:17:34,276
[paul_tyler]: five percent their assets between thirty

510
00:17:34,233 –> 00:17:34,395
[michelle_richter]: yeah

511
00:17:34,316 –> 00:17:37,661
[paul_tyler]: and forty in this annuity is that
then you get to fifty and sixty you’ve

512
00:17:37,681 –> 00:17:38,022
[paul_tyler]: got ten

513
00:17:38,696 –> 00:17:39,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

514
00:17:39,174 –> 00:17:39,595
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

515
00:17:40,095 –> 00:17:40,438
[michelle_richter]: oh

516
00:17:40,377 –> 00:17:40,538
[paul_tyler]: if you

517
00:17:40,466 –> 00:17:40,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

518
00:17:40,558 –> 00:17:41,280
[paul_tyler]: were righting a lot what

519
00:17:41,185 –> 00:17:41,287
[michelle_richter]: the

520
00:17:41,320 –> 00:17:41,460
[paul_tyler]: would

521
00:17:41,449 –> 00:17:41,753
[michelle_richter]: answer

522
00:17:41,500 –> 00:17:41,701
[paul_tyler]: it be

523
00:17:43,726 –> 00:17:44,787
[michelle_richter]: well i’m actually going to

524
00:17:44,808 –> 00:17:45,072
[bruno_caron]: yeah

525
00:17:44,847 –> 00:17:48,373
[michelle_richter]: have mark answer this because our organization
takes

526
00:17:48,533 –> 00:17:48,901
[mark_chamberlain]: my

527
00:17:48,554 –> 00:17:53,261
[michelle_richter]: a view point around how the stages
that we think you’re supposed to look at

528
00:17:53,742 –> 00:17:55,525
[michelle_richter]: as a plan advisor then

529
00:17:55,886 –> 00:17:56,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

530
00:17:56,327 –> 00:18:02,270
[michelle_richter]: it’s through that lens that you’re supposed
to then think about products all you mark

531
00:18:04,343 –> 00:18:07,807
[mark_chamberlain]: we didn’t see that one coming but
i’ll give

532
00:18:07,695 –> 00:18:07,957
[michelle_richter]: uh

533
00:18:07,867 –> 00:18:08,227
[mark_chamberlain]: it a shot

534
00:18:08,298 –> 00:18:08,579
[bruno_caron]: my

535
00:18:08,644 –> 00:18:08,685
[michelle_richter]: uh

536
00:18:08,945 –> 00:18:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

537
00:18:09,589 –> 00:18:12,945
[mark_chamberlain]: my perspective on all of this is
that

538
00:18:13,835 –> 00:18:13,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

539
00:18:14,913 –> 00:18:22,454
[mark_chamberlain]: open architecture approach to providing institutional quality
diligence and consulting means that

540
00:18:23,366 –> 00:18:23,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

541
00:18:23,395 –> 00:18:29,735
[mark_chamberlain]: there is no best solution there are
only trade offs and one of the possible

542
00:18:30,375 –> 00:18:31,497
[mark_chamberlain]: conclusions that a board

543
00:18:31,526 –> 00:18:31,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

544
00:18:31,597 –> 00:18:34,620
[mark_chamberlain]: can reach is that bringing an annuity
inside the

545
00:18:34,555 –> 00:18:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

546
00:18:34,660 –> 00:18:35,361
[mark_chamberlain]: plan isn’t the

547
00:18:35,366 –> 00:18:35,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

548
00:18:35,421 –> 00:18:38,919
[mark_chamberlain]: best decision for them it has to
be one of the options on the table

549
00:18:38,996 –> 00:18:39,241
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

550
00:18:39,401 –> 00:18:44,218
[mark_chamberlain]: and the consultant has to be ready
to support that and educated in such a

551
00:18:44,278 –> 00:18:45,645
[mark_chamberlain]: way that that’s that’s actually

552
00:18:45,447 –> 00:18:45,528
[michelle_richter]: ah

553
00:18:45,786 –> 00:18:51,448
[mark_chamberlain]: considered oh in an unbiased way so
that’s a little bit

554
00:18:51,408 –> 00:18:51,428
[bruno_caron]: m

555
00:18:51,488 –> 00:18:57,246
[mark_chamberlain]: of a constraint on who’s going to
be considered the outside expert and that gets

556
00:18:57,326 –> 00:18:59,551
[mark_chamberlain]: to the heart of michel’s point of

557
00:19:00,686 –> 00:19:01,110
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

558
00:19:00,693 –> 00:19:04,201
[mark_chamberlain]: the right way to compensate this kind
of an expert isn’t based on a product

559
00:19:04,301 –> 00:19:08,650
[mark_chamberlain]: sale the only way you’re going to
get truly objectivity is if they’re they’re paid

560
00:19:08,730 –> 00:19:10,514
[mark_chamberlain]: a consulting a hard dollar consulting fee

561
00:19:10,695 –> 00:19:10,916
[michelle_richter]: oh

562
00:19:11,476 –> 00:19:19,699
[mark_chamberlain]: so with that said no is it
optimal to try and say to a plant

563
00:19:19,655 –> 00:19:19,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

564
00:19:19,739 –> 00:19:26,971
[mark_chamberlain]: participant you should have ex percent defaulted
into this solution well that gets into the

565
00:19:27,051 –> 00:19:29,785
[mark_chamberlain]: triage what stage is the participant

566
00:19:29,345 –> 00:19:29,366
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

567
00:19:30,007 –> 00:19:34,636
[mark_chamberlain]: in and their financial planning are they
the accumulation

568
00:19:34,556 –> 00:19:34,818
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

569
00:19:34,716 –> 00:19:35,017
[mark_chamberlain]: phase

570
00:19:35,088 –> 00:19:36,198
[bruno_caron]: yeah

571
00:19:35,118 –> 00:19:38,491
[mark_chamberlain]: are they in the near retirement phase
or are they going to retire next year

572
00:19:39,623 –> 00:19:44,651
[mark_chamberlain]: and so that’s probably the first the
first conversation for

573
00:19:44,486 –> 00:19:45,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah m

574
00:19:45,893 –> 00:19:49,599
[mark_chamberlain]: the expert to have with the board
is what stage do you want to solve

575
00:19:49,679 –> 00:19:54,633
[mark_chamberlain]: for in your plan you want to
try and put something in place that will

576
00:19:54,733 –> 00:19:59,181
[mark_chamberlain]: fit those who are in the most
urgent need which are those people that are

577
00:19:59,221 –> 00:20:01,965
[mark_chamberlain]: retiring this year next year the year
after

578
00:20:02,636 –> 00:20:03,299
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

579
00:20:02,847 –> 00:20:09,201
[mark_chamberlain]: and so there are they’ve got some
educational needs about how to think about putting

580
00:20:09,261 –> 00:20:14,124
[mark_chamberlain]: together a retirement income plan that can
not only be secure for them in an

581
00:20:14,224 –> 00:20:19,293
[mark_chamberlain]: inflationary environment but in possibly a deflationary
environment also and you have to be able

582
00:20:19,373 –> 00:20:27,210
[mark_chamberlain]: to do some serious education about where
annuities fit relative systematic withdrawal and then you

583
00:20:27,250 –> 00:20:29,559
[mark_chamberlain]: have to be able to do a
deep dive from there on what kind of

584
00:20:29,639 –> 00:20:35,330
[mark_chamberlain]: ininuuity and if we focus on the
only decumulation then we need to do a

585
00:20:35,390 –> 00:20:40,619
[mark_chamberlain]: deep dive on spes versus riders versus
you know the various ways of generating lifetime

586
00:20:40,699 –> 00:20:45,549
[mark_chamberlain]: income so there is no answer to
the question of you know how do we

587
00:20:45,609 –> 00:20:50,921
[mark_chamberlain]: come up with a one size fits
all solution because it’s much too complicated for

588
00:20:50,961 –> 00:20:51,101
[mark_chamberlain]: that

589
00:20:52,189 –> 00:20:56,115
[bruno_caron]: and that makes perfect sense in terms
of trade off i love the way you

590
00:20:56,195 –> 00:21:00,743
[bruno_caron]: put it in terms of you know
there is no right solution there’s no one

591
00:21:01,825 –> 00:21:06,392
[bruno_caron]: one right answer because quite frankly if
there was we wouldn’t be talking about it

592
00:21:06,432 –> 00:21:06,773
[bruno_caron]: right now

593
00:21:07,553 –> 00:21:07,573
[mark_chamberlain]: m

594
00:21:07,554 –> 00:21:14,546
[bruno_caron]: and my question is have you looked
at or found a way to obviously there’s

595
00:21:14,606 –> 00:21:19,073
[bruno_caron]: a classical measure of you know assets
on their management x per cent of your

596
00:21:19,133 –> 00:21:24,462
[bruno_caron]: your portfolio should be you know allocated
one way one way or the other but

597
00:21:24,743 –> 00:21:30,753
[bruno_caron]: is there a way to to do
that exact same reasoning that exactly framework with

598
00:21:30,913 –> 00:21:32,776
[bruno_caron]: income and how much income

599
00:21:33,905 –> 00:21:33,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:21:34,219 –> 00:21:36,582
[bruno_caron]: on you know the set of all
of your

601
00:21:36,935 –> 00:21:36,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

602
00:21:36,963 –> 00:21:42,233
[bruno_caron]: your your assets would act or your
portfolio would would generate

603
00:21:44,132 –> 00:21:44,274
[mark_chamberlain]: what

604
00:21:44,295 –> 00:21:47,180
[michelle_richter]: i think there are lots of ways
to do that and it’s always going to

605
00:21:47,220 –> 00:21:49,564
[michelle_richter]: be a question and mark you should
disagree

606
00:21:49,166 –> 00:21:49,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

607
00:21:49,624 –> 00:21:54,633
[michelle_richter]: with me if this is not your
opinion but you know mark always tells me

608
00:21:54,833 –> 00:21:57,558
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary is t process right so

609
00:21:57,783 –> 00:21:57,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

610
00:21:57,958 –> 00:22:00,002
[michelle_richter]: there’s a million ways that you can

611
00:22:00,128 –> 00:22:00,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

612
00:22:00,522 –> 00:22:01,164
[michelle_richter]: do exactly

613
00:22:01,145 –> 00:22:01,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

614
00:22:01,204 –> 00:22:01,985
[michelle_richter]: what you’re describing

615
00:22:01,707 –> 00:22:01,728
[bruno_caron]: m

616
00:22:01,917 –> 00:22:01,999
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

617
00:22:02,025 –> 00:22:04,068
[michelle_richter]: brune and as long as when you’re

618
00:22:03,923 –> 00:22:04,105
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

619
00:22:04,128 –> 00:22:05,651
[michelle_richter]: acting in a futiary capacity

620
00:22:05,606 –> 00:22:05,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

621
00:22:05,771 –> 00:22:10,242
[michelle_richter]: as long as you document how you
did it and you did it you’re in

622
00:22:10,302 –> 00:22:10,763
[michelle_richter]: good hands

623
00:22:13,285 –> 00:22:17,898
[mark_chamberlain]: i spent the last ten years working
on a think tank project that i started

624
00:22:17,955 –> 00:22:18,178
[michelle_richter]: yeah

625
00:22:17,978 –> 00:22:22,485
[mark_chamberlain]: in two thousand ten and the objective
was to try and get l d to

626
00:22:22,545 –> 00:22:26,585
[mark_chamberlain]: translate to individuals and l d i
not in the way that the u k

627
00:22:26,865 –> 00:22:30,790
[mark_chamberlain]: used leverage to try and come up
with you now meeting a funding obligation

628
00:22:30,920 –> 00:22:31,021
[bruno_caron]: oh

629
00:22:31,226 –> 00:22:31,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: mark

630
00:22:31,891 –> 00:22:31,931
[mark_chamberlain]: l

631
00:22:31,930 –> 00:22:32,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: can

632
00:22:31,971 –> 00:22:31,991
[mark_chamberlain]: d

633
00:22:32,071 –> 00:22:34,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: you define l d i for the
broader audience

634
00:22:33,948 –> 00:22:34,608
[bruno_caron]: okay

635
00:22:35,433 –> 00:22:36,896
[mark_chamberlain]: liability driven investing

636
00:22:36,425 –> 00:22:36,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

637
00:22:36,888 –> 00:22:37,172
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:22:38,158 –> 00:22:39,841
[mark_chamberlain]: is what the acronym stands for and

639
00:22:40,376 –> 00:22:40,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

640
00:22:40,542 –> 00:22:41,083
[mark_chamberlain]: it’s something

641
00:22:40,878 –> 00:22:41,101
[bruno_caron]: may

642
00:22:41,163 –> 00:22:42,545
[mark_chamberlain]: that the corporate

643
00:22:42,206 –> 00:22:42,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

644
00:22:42,585 –> 00:22:44,048
[mark_chamberlain]: defined benefit plans moved

645
00:22:44,045 –> 00:22:44,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

646
00:22:44,128 –> 00:22:47,293
[mark_chamberlain]: to following basically the moment and really

647
00:22:47,075 –> 00:22:47,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:22:47,353 –> 00:22:52,362
[mark_chamberlain]: increased after the pension protection act in
two thousand six where there was a c

649
00:22:52,582 –> 00:22:52,983
[mark_chamberlain]: change

650
00:22:53,105 –> 00:22:53,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

651
00:22:53,243 –> 00:22:58,231
[mark_chamberlain]: in the funding ratio calculations for d
b plants they could no longer use

652
00:22:58,565 –> 00:22:58,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

653
00:22:58,592 –> 00:23:06,005
[mark_chamberlain]: one discount rate to figure out what
whether they were funded or not and the

654
00:23:06,065 –> 00:23:07,287
[mark_chamberlain]: new rules said that for

655
00:23:07,488 –> 00:23:09,228
[bruno_caron]: yeah

656
00:23:07,928 –> 00:23:08,990
[mark_chamberlain]: those assets that

657
00:23:08,945 –> 00:23:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

658
00:23:09,170 –> 00:23:13,077
[mark_chamberlain]: were the essential assets of the plan
to be fully

659
00:23:13,095 –> 00:23:13,338
[michelle_richter]: yes

660
00:23:13,177 –> 00:23:19,124
[mark_chamberlain]: funded meaning for those retires that are
already in retire that part of the plan

661
00:23:19,204 –> 00:23:21,427
[mark_chamberlain]: had to be fully funded to be
secure

662
00:23:21,348 –> 00:23:22,158
[bruno_caron]: yeah

663
00:23:22,027 –> 00:23:23,429
[mark_chamberlain]: so they said those assets

664
00:23:23,465 –> 00:23:23,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

665
00:23:23,669 –> 00:23:24,530
[mark_chamberlain]: have to use a discount

666
00:23:24,386 –> 00:23:24,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

667
00:23:24,610 –> 00:23:29,267
[mark_chamberlain]: rate that’s basically a risk free rate
a short term you know investment grade bond

668
00:23:29,347 –> 00:23:33,774
[mark_chamberlain]: rate where as he for the employes
that are retiring down the road twenty thirty

669
00:23:33,794 –> 00:23:39,004
[mark_chamberlain]: years out they could use a longer
duration interest rate calculation so they can okay

670
00:23:39,647 –> 00:23:44,786
[mark_chamberlain]: we call a three bucket approach they
segmented the assets of the plan based on

671
00:23:45,026 –> 00:23:51,276
[mark_chamberlain]: how risky the retirement funding need was
and so it’s really an asset liability matching

672
00:23:51,637 –> 00:23:52,358
[mark_chamberlain]: kind of a formula

673
00:23:52,618 –> 00:23:52,638
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

674
00:23:53,179 –> 00:23:55,583
[mark_chamberlain]: so we said why couldn’t that apply
to individuals

675
00:23:56,096 –> 00:23:56,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

676
00:23:56,124 –> 00:24:01,758
[mark_chamberlain]: because if you try and make the
translation in terms of utility what onamous call

677
00:24:02,483 –> 00:24:03,388
[mark_chamberlain]: what’s the utility

678
00:24:03,035 –> 00:24:03,056
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:24:03,489 –> 00:24:03,549
[mark_chamberlain]: of

680
00:24:03,618 –> 00:24:03,881
[bruno_caron]: oh

681
00:24:03,871 –> 00:24:03,971
[mark_chamberlain]: the

682
00:24:03,905 –> 00:24:03,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:24:04,012 –> 00:24:10,317
[mark_chamberlain]: position for that individual the utility of
the essential expenses their food shelter

684
00:24:10,080 –> 00:24:10,101
[michelle_richter]: a

685
00:24:10,397 –> 00:24:16,823
[mark_chamberlain]: and health insurance is different than their
utility for travel and vacation expenses much less

686
00:24:16,903 –> 00:24:20,750
[mark_chamberlain]: essential and so lot of lot of
thinkers in the industry have come up with

687
00:24:20,850 –> 00:24:21,972
[mark_chamberlain]: you know a way of saying let’s

688
00:24:21,894 –> 00:24:21,915
[michelle_richter]: m

689
00:24:22,853 –> 00:24:26,059
[mark_chamberlain]: let’s they’ve use different terms for it
but

690
00:24:26,096 –> 00:24:26,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

691
00:24:27,401 –> 00:24:28,784
[mark_chamberlain]: they basically said let’s about

692
00:24:28,766 –> 00:24:30,386
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

693
00:24:28,945 –> 00:24:30,169
[mark_chamberlain]: using annuities for

694
00:24:30,896 –> 00:24:31,161
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

695
00:24:31,614 –> 00:24:35,764
[mark_chamberlain]: most necessary part of a person’s balance
sheet in retirement

696
00:24:35,295 –> 00:24:35,315
[michelle_richter]: m

697
00:24:35,705 –> 00:24:35,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

698
00:24:36,385 –> 00:24:41,155
[mark_chamberlain]: and get those things funded in a
secure way and we could think about using

699
00:24:41,576 –> 00:24:46,464
[mark_chamberlain]: something that can have more variability for
the expenses that more discretionary

700
00:24:46,290 –> 00:24:46,310
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

701
00:24:47,145 –> 00:24:48,127
[mark_chamberlain]: and we think that applies

702
00:24:47,937 –> 00:24:47,958
[bruno_caron]: m

703
00:24:48,568 –> 00:24:49,449
[mark_chamberlain]: almost on a one to

704
00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:49,460
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

705
00:24:49,549 –> 00:24:56,437
[mark_chamberlain]: one basis just based on economics one
ant and so the idea that corporate pension

706
00:24:56,538 –> 00:25:02,596
[mark_chamberlain]: plans we’re forced to move down this
road in two thousand six but in the

707
00:25:02,956 –> 00:25:03,418
[mark_chamberlain]: personal

708
00:25:03,215 –> 00:25:03,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

709
00:25:03,538 –> 00:25:05,985
[mark_chamberlain]: financial planning world we’re still

710
00:25:06,116 –> 00:25:06,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

711
00:25:06,126 –> 00:25:13,029
[mark_chamberlain]: treating individuals in most software like old
defined benefit plants and we use one discount

712
00:25:13,089 –> 00:25:17,496
[mark_chamberlain]: rate which is usually based on i
didn’t expect to return from risk assets to

713
00:25:17,536 –> 00:25:22,927
[mark_chamberlain]: figure out whether somebody’s fully funded so
i record mentation is that the planning shift

714
00:25:23,288 –> 00:25:26,255
[mark_chamberlain]: to a discussion with participants about let’s
let’s

715
00:25:26,130 –> 00:25:26,150
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

716
00:25:26,515 –> 00:25:28,641
[mark_chamberlain]: have you sit down and figure out
with your spouse

717
00:25:28,826 –> 00:25:30,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

718
00:25:29,523 –> 00:25:30,889
[mark_chamberlain]: what your essential expenses

719
00:25:30,836 –> 00:25:31,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

720
00:25:31,010 –> 00:25:36,425
[mark_chamberlain]: are put those in the bucket number
one bucket number two could be the ones

721
00:25:36,465 –> 00:25:39,508
[mark_chamberlain]: that follow after that in terms of
need and then bucket number three could be

722
00:25:40,049 –> 00:25:43,072
[mark_chamberlain]: you know your your less essential or
your optional expenses

723
00:25:42,618 –> 00:25:42,879
[bruno_caron]: yeah

724
00:25:43,613 –> 00:25:46,341
[mark_chamberlain]: you could think about finding them differently
but for the first bucket

725
00:25:47,028 –> 00:25:47,231
[bruno_caron]: oh

726
00:25:47,134 –> 00:25:48,508
[mark_chamberlain]: should really consider an annuity

727
00:25:49,791 –> 00:25:52,736
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m michel a mark i want to
jump in here so really interesting topic i

728
00:25:53,377 –> 00:25:57,123
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: just to pick it back i want
you just said mark so m the average

729
00:25:57,343 –> 00:26:02,933
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: plan you know participant in particular that
employ that’s maybe approaching retirement this might be

730
00:26:03,053 –> 00:26:07,160
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: like mind blowing concept re thinking how
they’re going to contribute

731
00:26:07,145 –> 00:26:07,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

732
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:11,747
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: into their plan so from an education
perspective in particular bringing up the word annuity

733
00:26:13,398 –> 00:26:13,660
[bruno_caron]: oh

734
00:26:13,890 –> 00:26:16,334
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: now no verb michelle um but bringing
up

735
00:26:16,316 –> 00:26:16,583
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

736
00:26:16,374 –> 00:26:17,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the word annuity

737
00:26:17,325 –> 00:26:17,668
[michelle_richter]: oh

738
00:26:17,576 –> 00:26:18,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: um you know

739
00:26:18,606 –> 00:26:18,808
[michelle_richter]: yeah

740
00:26:19,139 –> 00:26:23,967
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: who’s responsible for that education getting that
plan participant at the sponsor is at the

741
00:26:24,007 –> 00:26:26,815
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: provider combination of both and then i
have follow up question to that

742
00:26:29,517 –> 00:26:33,724
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s going to be everybody
you know so it’s all

743
00:26:33,686 –> 00:26:33,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

744
00:26:33,784 –> 00:26:36,629
[michelle_richter]: of the above and more it’s going
to take

745
00:26:36,506 –> 00:26:37,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

746
00:26:36,769 –> 00:26:42,258
[michelle_richter]: industry organizations like the irikis has begun
working on consumer

747
00:26:42,198 –> 00:26:42,459
[bruno_caron]: oh

748
00:26:42,318 –> 00:26:42,639
[michelle_richter]: facing

749
00:26:42,515 –> 00:26:42,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

750
00:26:42,719 –> 00:26:44,582
[michelle_richter]: materials there is a chance

751
00:26:44,456 –> 00:26:45,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

752
00:26:44,722 –> 00:26:45,924
[michelle_richter]: we may do so together

753
00:26:45,918 –> 00:26:45,938
[bruno_caron]: o

754
00:26:46,064 –> 00:26:46,725
[michelle_richter]: with the alliance

755
00:26:46,646 –> 00:26:47,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

756
00:26:46,805 –> 00:26:50,652
[michelle_richter]: for lifetime income so i think not
only

757
00:26:50,615 –> 00:26:51,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

758
00:26:51,133 –> 00:26:56,542
[michelle_richter]: the categories in cluded are those responsible
for education but more broadly

759
00:26:56,598 –> 00:26:57,288
[bruno_caron]: yeah

760
00:26:56,742 –> 00:26:57,423
[michelle_richter]: the industry

761
00:26:57,162 –> 00:26:57,491
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: did you

762
00:26:58,184 –> 00:27:02,612
[michelle_richter]: needs through dispassionate third party kind of
organizations

763
00:27:01,796 –> 00:27:01,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

764
00:27:03,153 –> 00:27:09,168
[michelle_richter]: as well as through the individual product
providers as well as through record keepers through

765
00:27:09,208 –> 00:27:16,112
[michelle_richter]: the employer themselves the employer is the
person that the plan participant or the entity

766
00:27:16,172 –> 00:27:19,137
[michelle_richter]: that the person the participant feels they
can trust

767
00:27:19,438 –> 00:27:19,950
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

768
00:27:20,079 –> 00:27:23,645
[michelle_richter]: and rightly so so the materials have
to get you

769
00:27:24,236 –> 00:27:24,561
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

770
00:27:24,546 –> 00:27:26,610
[michelle_richter]: playin sponsors but they also have to
get

771
00:27:26,696 –> 00:27:26,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

772
00:27:27,251 –> 00:27:30,336
[michelle_richter]: from there to to the end participants
and that’s never

773
00:27:30,086 –> 00:27:30,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:27:30,436 –> 00:27:30,917
[michelle_richter]: an easy

775
00:27:32,216 –> 00:27:32,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

776
00:27:32,960 –> 00:27:33,461
[michelle_richter]: task to

777
00:27:33,446 –> 00:27:34,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

778
00:27:33,561 –> 00:27:38,069
[michelle_richter]: accomplish because most men gins choose not
to engage with their plans

779
00:27:38,556 –> 00:27:39,030
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

780
00:27:38,830 –> 00:27:39,051
[michelle_richter]: um

781
00:27:39,305 –> 00:27:39,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

782
00:27:39,692 –> 00:27:41,134
[michelle_richter]: and that’s pretty unfortunate

783
00:27:41,298 –> 00:27:41,521
[bruno_caron]: oh

784
00:27:41,334 –> 00:27:44,800
[michelle_richter]: but they choose not to write up
until the point of retirement and then they

785
00:27:44,900 –> 00:27:51,553
[michelle_richter]: experience overwhelm or the perience shame for
not having saved enough and at that point

786
00:27:52,275 –> 00:27:53,918
[michelle_richter]: there’s you know a real challenge

787
00:27:53,816 –> 00:27:54,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:27:54,118 –> 00:27:54,299
[michelle_richter]: to

789
00:27:54,716 –> 00:27:54,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

790
00:27:55,121 –> 00:27:56,383
[michelle_richter]: help them you know when it’s

791
00:27:56,880 –> 00:27:57,660
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

792
00:27:57,185 –> 00:27:57,807
[michelle_richter]: on that last

793
00:27:57,746 –> 00:27:58,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

794
00:27:57,887 –> 00:27:58,930
[michelle_richter]: day before they retire

795
00:27:58,910 –> 00:27:59,072
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

796
00:27:59,030 –> 00:28:00,413
[michelle_richter]: you know it’s much better if

797
00:28:00,671 –> 00:28:00,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

798
00:28:00,895 –> 00:28:01,356
[michelle_richter]: a financial

799
00:28:01,038 –> 00:28:01,340
[bruno_caron]: oh

800
00:28:01,286 –> 00:28:01,572
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:28:01,436 –> 00:28:04,263
[michelle_richter]: professional is in front of that person
sooner than that

802
00:28:04,470 –> 00:28:06,463
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: they kind of set it on auto
pilot so

803
00:28:07,575 –> 00:28:07,818
[michelle_richter]: yeah

804
00:28:07,641 –> 00:28:13,386
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: next question is am i hearing maybe
a new career path or even a talent

805
00:28:13,446 –> 00:28:19,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: opportunity for agents um so the plan
provider i’m just the practicality of how an

806
00:28:19,075 –> 00:28:22,841
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: annuity is sold you know who has
to sign the apple how does this happen

807
00:28:23,002 –> 00:28:23,222
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so i’m

808
00:28:23,225 –> 00:28:23,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

809
00:28:23,262 –> 00:28:28,230
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thinking through where does the role of
the agent plan is the provider hiring agents

810
00:28:28,270 –> 00:28:28,931
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: as consultants

811
00:28:29,165 –> 00:28:29,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:28:29,172 –> 00:28:32,397
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: or or agents going to have employee
opportunities in within plan

813
00:28:32,285 –> 00:28:32,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

814
00:28:32,457 –> 00:28:35,563
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: providers going forward can you speak a
little bit about how you in vision

815
00:28:35,655 –> 00:28:36,804
[michelle_richter]: yeah

816
00:28:35,883 –> 00:28:37,647
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i know we don’t know exactly but
how this

817
00:28:37,599 –> 00:28:37,782
[michelle_richter]: yeah

818
00:28:37,707 –> 00:28:38,148
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: all works

819
00:28:40,106 –> 00:28:40,266
[michelle_richter]: well

820
00:28:40,320 –> 00:28:41,130
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

821
00:28:40,627 –> 00:28:41,248
[michelle_richter]: i’m not sure

822
00:28:41,160 –> 00:28:41,760
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

823
00:28:41,368 –> 00:28:43,652
[michelle_richter]: exactly i just know it’s going a
happen

824
00:28:43,663 –> 00:28:43,864
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

825
00:28:44,093 –> 00:28:47,318
[michelle_richter]: so i think people should prepare for
the fact that it’s going to

826
00:28:47,298 –> 00:28:47,539
[bruno_caron]: oh

827
00:28:47,378 –> 00:28:47,659
[michelle_richter]: happen

828
00:28:47,636 –> 00:28:47,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

829
00:28:48,821 –> 00:28:49,722
[michelle_richter]: and my hope is

830
00:28:49,696 –> 00:28:49,837
[bruno_caron]: yeah

831
00:28:49,822 –> 00:28:52,868
[michelle_richter]: that my hope is that other

832
00:28:52,710 –> 00:28:52,957
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

833
00:28:52,948 –> 00:28:55,312
[michelle_richter]: members of the insurance community

834
00:28:55,424 –> 00:28:56,144
[paul_tyler]: oh

835
00:28:55,452 –> 00:28:55,612
[michelle_richter]: make

836
00:28:55,518 –> 00:28:55,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

837
00:28:55,713 –> 00:28:56,554
[michelle_richter]: the decision to

838
00:28:56,628 –> 00:28:56,890
[bruno_caron]: oh

839
00:28:56,634 –> 00:29:01,242
[michelle_richter]: become insurance advisors where advisors are

840
00:29:01,196 –> 00:29:01,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

841
00:29:01,302 –> 00:29:04,335
[michelle_richter]: verb sellers yeah

842
00:29:04,078 –> 00:29:04,279
[paul_tyler]: verb

843
00:29:04,367 –> 00:29:04,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: but

844
00:29:04,379 –> 00:29:04,741
[paul_tyler]: sellers

845
00:29:04,508 –> 00:29:05,489
[ramsey_d_smith]: can you hang that shingle

846
00:29:05,284 –> 00:29:05,304
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

847
00:29:05,328 –> 00:29:05,836
[bruno_caron]: uh

848
00:29:05,569 –> 00:29:06,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: now i mean it’s it’s

849
00:29:06,427 –> 00:29:06,468
[bruno_caron]: uh

850
00:29:06,551 –> 00:29:08,494
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very so the use case

851
00:29:08,294 –> 00:29:08,559
[paul_tyler]: oh

852
00:29:08,554 –> 00:29:14,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: is very clear in a world where
by the way tis a great questions like

853
00:29:14,358 –> 00:29:14,581
[bruno_caron]: yeah

854
00:29:14,564 –> 00:29:15,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: really getting right the heart

855
00:29:15,566 –> 00:29:15,730
[michelle_richter]: yeah

856
00:29:15,646 –> 00:29:16,227
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the matter there

857
00:29:16,683 –> 00:29:17,185
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thanks ramsey

858
00:29:17,489 –> 00:29:22,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: but so it’s a it’s a business
opportunity is a business opportunity for r as

859
00:29:22,698 –> 00:29:24,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: in this in the d c space
check

860
00:29:24,888 –> 00:29:25,089
[bruno_caron]: oh

861
00:29:25,342 –> 00:29:31,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there is this open knee for
open need for insurance experts in that space

862
00:29:31,795 –> 00:29:39,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: check right but it’s not clear to
me that there’s a there’s there’s a designation

863
00:29:39,728 –> 00:29:43,653
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there’s a what is the you
put up your shingle now what does that

864
00:29:43,713 –> 00:29:44,253
[ramsey_d_smith]: shingle say

865
00:29:44,488 –> 00:29:44,670
[michelle_richter]: yeah

866
00:29:44,994 –> 00:29:45,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

867
00:29:46,115 –> 00:29:47,277
[michelle_richter]: great question it’s

868
00:29:47,186 –> 00:29:48,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

869
00:29:47,337 –> 00:29:51,464
[michelle_richter]: not clear to me either i just
went and got my a if from f

870
00:29:51,565 –> 00:29:54,549
[michelle_richter]: i three sixty so that i could
be an accredited investment

871
00:29:54,326 –> 00:29:54,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

872
00:29:54,590 –> 00:29:55,150
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

873
00:29:55,595 –> 00:29:55,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

874
00:29:56,052 –> 00:30:01,942
[michelle_richter]: even though what i focus on not
so much investments right it’s it’s de cumulation

875
00:30:01,385 –> 00:30:01,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

876
00:30:02,563 –> 00:30:08,773
[michelle_richter]: but but you know so so my
thinking is i went and got my insurance

877
00:30:08,873 –> 00:30:09,314
[michelle_richter]: license

878
00:30:09,386 –> 00:30:09,589
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

879
00:30:09,394 –> 00:30:14,245
[michelle_richter]: fret and i got my have my
r i a set up i have a

880
00:30:14,305 –> 00:30:21,195
[michelle_richter]: sixty five and i am now i
have the a i f so so my

881
00:30:21,275 –> 00:30:25,297
[michelle_richter]: thinking is i’m covered under the umbrella
of those

882
00:30:25,142 –> 00:30:25,163
[mark_chamberlain]: m

883
00:30:25,357 –> 00:30:25,678
[michelle_richter]: things

884
00:30:25,736 –> 00:30:25,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

885
00:30:25,878 –> 00:30:32,449
[michelle_richter]: but i have no clarity whatsoever as
to legally how this domain develops i know

886
00:30:32,670 –> 00:30:33,271
[michelle_richter]: only that

887
00:30:33,464 –> 00:30:33,624
[paul_tyler]: yeah

888
00:30:33,812 –> 00:30:34,593
[michelle_richter]: experts is

889
00:30:34,649 –> 00:30:34,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

890
00:30:34,673 –> 00:30:39,287
[michelle_richter]: needed around inuits delivered to plan advisors

891
00:30:39,566 –> 00:30:39,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

892
00:30:39,567 –> 00:30:42,531
[michelle_richter]: so one of those is going to
be what qualifies

893
00:30:43,066 –> 00:30:43,556
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

894
00:30:43,132 –> 00:30:44,854
[michelle_richter]: mark and me to be able to
do that

895
00:30:44,966 –> 00:30:44,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

896
00:30:45,114 –> 00:30:52,306
[paul_tyler]: well interesting discussion now i think if
i come from the institutional side to say

897
00:30:52,807 –> 00:30:58,061
[paul_tyler]: know ramsey i expect this advisor to
be an r a seems like a very

898
00:30:58,182 –> 00:31:04,999
[paul_tyler]: logical response however you know michelle my
experience has been you know

899
00:31:05,156 –> 00:31:05,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

900
00:31:05,800 –> 00:31:07,641
[paul_tyler]: there’s not such there’s no such thing
as

901
00:31:07,595 –> 00:31:07,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

902
00:31:07,701 –> 00:31:09,203
[paul_tyler]: a good compensation

903
00:31:10,235 –> 00:31:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

904
00:31:10,354 –> 00:31:13,559
[paul_tyler]: perfect compensation planet really what i do
see is that

905
00:31:13,475 –> 00:31:13,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

906
00:31:13,599 –> 00:31:16,083
[paul_tyler]: the compensation has got to match up
with the results

907
00:31:16,016 –> 00:31:16,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

908
00:31:17,205 –> 00:31:18,608
[paul_tyler]: you want um

909
00:31:19,387 –> 00:31:19,689
[michelle_richter]: yes

910
00:31:20,150 –> 00:31:20,711
[paul_tyler]: you know if you think

911
00:31:20,726 –> 00:31:20,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:31:20,771 –> 00:31:25,197
[paul_tyler]: of these companies as as a pyramid
you got some very high

913
00:31:25,256 –> 00:31:25,679
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

914
00:31:25,357 –> 00:31:31,423
[paul_tyler]: earners with probably very large for once
balances at the very top economically a

915
00:31:32,645 –> 00:31:32,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:31:32,724 –> 00:31:33,625
[paul_tyler]: a fiduciary

917
00:31:33,056 –> 00:31:33,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

918
00:31:33,845 –> 00:31:38,369
[paul_tyler]: like uh annual contract probably makes sense
you know it’s it’s you know i’ve got

919
00:31:38,449 –> 00:31:43,493
[paul_tyler]: high end services ramsey remember co i
think you know

920
00:31:45,436 –> 00:31:45,960
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were great

921
00:31:45,734 –> 00:31:50,318
[paul_tyler]: i’ve lost lost track of this service
great service if you happen to be have

922
00:31:50,619 –> 00:31:52,921
[paul_tyler]: an v p title now challenge s
you go

923
00:31:52,973 –> 00:31:53,196
[mark_chamberlain]: uh

924
00:31:52,981 –> 00:32:01,368
[paul_tyler]: down down the pyramid ah they mean
these people be service michelle if if

925
00:32:01,835 –> 00:32:01,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

926
00:32:02,449 –> 00:32:06,915
[paul_tyler]: you know they’re only earning two percent
off of a twenty five thousand dollars throwing

927
00:32:07,176 –> 00:32:07,517
[paul_tyler]: balance

928
00:32:07,406 –> 00:32:07,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

929
00:32:07,597 –> 00:32:08,681
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s the answer there

930
00:32:08,756 –> 00:32:08,997
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

931
00:32:09,216 –> 00:32:11,340
[michelle_richter]: well the answer is

932
00:32:11,495 –> 00:32:11,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

933
00:32:11,501 –> 00:32:14,850
[michelle_richter]: not a um it’s not

934
00:32:15,146 –> 00:32:15,388
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

935
00:32:15,695 –> 00:32:15,876
[michelle_richter]: um

936
00:32:16,166 –> 00:32:16,471
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

937
00:32:16,257 –> 00:32:22,135
[michelle_richter]: in my view so you know i
or at least a um is to me

938
00:32:22,436 –> 00:32:28,446
[michelle_richter]: not my preferred building methodology for the
wealth management domain i do think it’s appropriate

939
00:32:28,486 –> 00:32:32,152
[michelle_richter]: for the asset management domain but that’s
going to get us off on a whole

940
00:32:32,212 –> 00:32:32,372
[michelle_richter]: other

941
00:32:32,256 –> 00:32:32,457
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

942
00:32:32,492 –> 00:32:35,678
[michelle_richter]: track and i still have it i
a tribe to deliver so

943
00:32:35,906 –> 00:32:35,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

944
00:32:36,419 –> 00:32:37,160
[michelle_richter]: um you know

945
00:32:37,343 –> 00:32:38,003
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

946
00:32:37,441 –> 00:32:37,541
[michelle_richter]: but

947
00:32:37,835 –> 00:32:37,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

948
00:32:37,941 –> 00:32:38,282
[michelle_richter]: it does

949
00:32:38,389 –> 00:32:38,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

950
00:32:38,402 –> 00:32:43,170
[michelle_richter]: tie into what i want to talk
about which is the predominance of a um

951
00:32:43,330 –> 00:32:51,170
[michelle_richter]: as a building method it does cause
distortion in thinking that i’m going to elucidate

952
00:32:51,691 –> 00:32:54,741
[michelle_richter]: pretty deeply should i go for it

953
00:32:55,319 –> 00:32:55,861
[ramsey_d_smith]: rock and roll

954
00:32:57,155 –> 00:33:03,385
[michelle_richter]: okay um this you all are get
very excited right now because i’m about to

955
00:33:03,906 –> 00:33:12,404
[michelle_richter]: go bananas and i am going to
issue called arms i’m looking for members of

956
00:33:12,785 –> 00:33:13,607
[michelle_richter]: the society

957
00:33:13,145 –> 00:33:13,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:33:13,647 –> 00:33:21,652
[michelle_richter]: of actuaries nata i r i and
any other industry group that you can think

959
00:33:21,772 –> 00:33:28,443
[michelle_richter]: of that might find this topic of
concern i am about to make a big

960
00:33:28,543 –> 00:33:34,839
[michelle_richter]: bold assert and which i will back
up with three less big assertions so big

961
00:33:34,940 –> 00:33:43,415
[michelle_richter]: bold assertion number one is that non
codification of verb sales and insurance means that

962
00:33:43,595 –> 00:33:46,740
[michelle_richter]: intellectual property cannot have value

963
00:33:46,526 –> 00:33:47,576
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

964
00:33:46,840 –> 00:33:52,992
[michelle_richter]: and insurance i g i will defend
why this is true with the following three

965
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,653
[michelle_richter]: assertions

966
00:33:53,585 –> 00:33:53,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

967
00:33:54,955 –> 00:34:00,785
[michelle_richter]: mark this moment in the podcast so
that you can tag the people that you

968
00:34:00,865 –> 00:34:04,271
[michelle_richter]: know from the industry organizations i just
mentioned

969
00:34:04,406 –> 00:34:04,648
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

970
00:34:04,772 –> 00:34:07,609
[michelle_richter]: and tell them when to start listening
it’s right here

971
00:34:07,463 –> 00:34:07,725
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

972
00:34:08,275 –> 00:34:14,826
[michelle_richter]: a non codification of verb sales and
insurance means i p can’t have value why

973
00:34:15,807 –> 00:34:22,221
[michelle_richter]: well the above mentioned fact is true
because of the intersection between how products

974
00:34:22,136 –> 00:34:22,378
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

975
00:34:22,642 –> 00:34:29,909
[michelle_richter]: sell and how trademark law works i
will explain further in a moment sertion number

976
00:34:29,989 –> 00:34:37,563
[michelle_richter]: three is that intellectual property having value
is fundamental to the functioning of a capitalistic

977
00:34:37,703 –> 00:34:48,360
[michelle_richter]: system assertion number four in a deutalized
world where insurance manufacturing is now entirely vertically

978
00:34:48,481 –> 00:34:57,335
[michelle_richter]: disintegrated from distribution i p can only
come to have value by codifying insurance advisement

979
00:34:57,896 –> 00:35:06,339
[michelle_richter]: as a scalable overseeable nationally regulated discipline
so now i move to proving assertion number

980
00:35:06,539 –> 00:35:08,702
[michelle_richter]: one i p has no value in
my

981
00:35:08,756 –> 00:35:09,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

982
00:35:08,803 –> 00:35:15,634
[michelle_richter]: domain by proving assertions to through four
starting with assertion two part one how to

983
00:35:15,674 –> 00:35:20,671
[michelle_richter]: product sell to understand this we need
first to define the word product and then

984
00:35:20,711 –> 00:35:28,095
[michelle_richter]: the word sell products are nounce in
the context of insurance and financial services products

985
00:35:28,296 –> 00:35:38,092
[michelle_richter]: are issuable containers and their distribution is
highly regulated products are issuable legale contracts within

986
00:35:38,272 –> 00:35:40,936
[michelle_richter]: which intellectual property can be imbedded

987
00:35:41,156 –> 00:35:42,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

988
00:35:41,678 –> 00:35:42,619
[michelle_richter]: and in exchange

989
00:35:42,146 –> 00:35:42,367
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

990
00:35:42,719 –> 00:35:50,633
[michelle_richter]: for the distribution of which compensation can
be paid to a financial professional in respect

991
00:35:50,853 –> 00:35:58,727
[michelle_richter]: of either but never concurrently a or
b a is from inside the noun in

992
00:35:58,847 –> 00:36:03,958
[michelle_richter]: direct respect to sale thereof this refers
to agency and brokerage

993
00:36:04,590 –> 00:36:04,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: her

994
00:36:04,780 –> 00:36:10,870
[michelle_richter]: where as b is charged upon the
a u a or a um there formed

995
00:36:11,411 –> 00:36:12,072
[michelle_richter]: following a

996
00:36:12,056 –> 00:36:12,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

997
00:36:12,192 –> 00:36:18,313
[michelle_richter]: products introduction to an advised portfolio thus
b refers to the r i a channel

998
00:36:19,465 –> 00:36:21,789
[michelle_richter]: now that we know what product means
we move on to sell

999
00:36:21,956 –> 00:36:22,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:36:22,791 –> 00:36:24,494
[michelle_richter]: sell means the exchange

1001
00:36:24,065 –> 00:36:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1002
00:36:24,654 –> 00:36:30,323
[michelle_richter]: of remuneration in direct respect to x
x is a verb in the r a

1003
00:36:30,444 –> 00:36:33,070
[michelle_richter]: channel and it’s a noun in the
agent

1004
00:36:33,019 –> 00:36:33,121
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1005
00:36:33,431 –> 00:36:42,196
[michelle_richter]: broker channels wholesalers are people who so
routinely sell holes that we can describe

1006
00:36:41,857 –> 00:36:41,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1007
00:36:42,256 –> 00:36:47,265
[michelle_richter]: their identity by adding an r to
the end of the verb that they retain

1008
00:36:47,405 –> 00:36:53,947
[michelle_richter]: we perform analogy runners routine ly run
we don’t call someone a runner who once

1009
00:36:54,027 –> 00:36:57,872
[michelle_richter]: ran across across the street so whole
sailors

1010
00:36:58,257 –> 00:36:58,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: now

1011
00:36:58,413 –> 00:37:04,720
[michelle_richter]: sell nouns holes are nouns the human
mind can’t conceive of the premise of a

1012
00:37:04,760 –> 00:37:12,125
[michelle_richter]: whole verb therefore whole sailors are people
who sell holes holes must be nouns and

1013
00:37:12,286 –> 00:37:17,717
[michelle_richter]: non sell only when they have a
whole sailor selling them whole sailors

1014
00:37:17,606 –> 00:37:17,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1015
00:37:17,837 –> 00:37:23,466
[michelle_richter]: work for either a non manufacturer or
a noun seller and organization that sells nouns

1016
00:37:23,907 –> 00:37:29,276
[michelle_richter]: will not switch witch now and it
has its whole sailers focused on selling unless

1017
00:37:29,376 –> 00:37:36,488
[michelle_richter]: the new non is more profitable than
is the incumbent now portfolio that’s the reason

1018
00:37:36,608 –> 00:37:43,700
[michelle_richter]: why a product concept cannot have value
because is valuable about the product the non

1019
00:37:44,381 –> 00:37:52,114
[michelle_richter]: is the sellers prior investment in manufacturing
and or wholesaling infrastructure not the clever intellectual

1020
00:37:52,194 –> 00:37:55,165
[michelle_richter]: prof property that does not deliver a
higher

1021
00:37:55,136 –> 00:37:55,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1022
00:37:55,225 –> 00:38:02,041
[michelle_richter]: profit margin than the incumbent so that’s
the first half of assertion to it goes

1023
00:38:02,181 –> 00:38:04,525
[michelle_richter]: way quicker from here so stick with
me okay

1024
00:38:04,805 –> 00:38:04,826
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1025
00:38:05,046 –> 00:38:06,648
[michelle_richter]: it’s like lightning from here okay

1026
00:38:07,188 –> 00:38:07,289
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1027
00:38:07,971 –> 00:38:14,582
[michelle_richter]: the second half of assertion to is
about tree marking trademark trade marking and the

1028
00:38:14,642 –> 00:38:19,991
[michelle_richter]: application of trade marking is different for
a brand name than it is for intellectual

1029
00:38:20,051 –> 00:38:25,059
[michelle_richter]: property the how you defend a brand
name in court with a trademark it’s really

1030
00:38:25,139 –> 00:38:27,483
[michelle_richter]: easy but defending intellectual property

1031
00:38:27,581 –> 00:38:27,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1032
00:38:27,683 –> 00:38:33,092
[michelle_richter]: the trade mark has more challenge to
it in this case i’m talking about intellectual

1033
00:38:33,173 –> 00:38:41,244
[michelle_richter]: property protection uh it requires the defense
of a trademark requires the intellectual property to

1034
00:38:41,304 –> 00:38:50,117
[michelle_richter]: be now embedable whereas intellectual property that
is service marked requires the i p to

1035
00:38:50,197 –> 00:38:55,924
[michelle_richter]: be verb impedible if you google trademark
definition

1036
00:38:55,916 –> 00:38:57,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah oh

1037
00:38:57,875 –> 00:39:00,419
[michelle_richter]: you see that when applied to intellectual

1038
00:39:00,326 –> 00:39:02,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1039
00:39:00,499 –> 00:39:03,404
[michelle_richter]: property defense as differs from brand defense

1040
00:39:03,596 –> 00:39:03,899
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1041
00:39:04,025 –> 00:39:09,013
[michelle_richter]: that the definition of this word requires
the ip owner to be

1042
00:39:08,975 –> 00:39:08,996
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1043
00:39:09,193 –> 00:39:17,085
[michelle_richter]: able to either manufacture or to sell
remember what sell means from the above the

1044
00:39:17,165 –> 00:39:18,126
[michelle_richter]: non right

1045
00:39:18,591 –> 00:39:18,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

1046
00:39:18,746 –> 00:39:25,412
[michelle_richter]: so product concepts can’t have value because
of the intersection between how product sells and

1047
00:39:25,753 –> 00:39:33,632
[michelle_richter]: how trade mark law is applied okay
insurance is the liability or contra asset minimization

1048
00:39:33,732 –> 00:39:34,013
[michelle_richter]: field

1049
00:39:34,523 –> 00:39:34,788
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1050
00:39:34,745 –> 00:39:38,290
[michelle_richter]: what just stick with me on insurance

1051
00:39:38,396 –> 00:39:38,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1052
00:39:38,411 –> 00:39:40,434
[michelle_richter]: is about minimizing consumers

1053
00:39:40,226 –> 00:39:40,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1054
00:39:40,494 –> 00:39:42,758
[michelle_richter]: liabilities okay and i’m not going

1055
00:39:42,685 –> 00:39:42,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1056
00:39:42,778 –> 00:39:47,326
[michelle_richter]: to bring up the contraascit thing again
super complicated so i mean shorten it by

1057
00:39:47,426 –> 00:39:56,887
[michelle_richter]: saying liability minimization insurance advisor is not
a defined term financial advisor is a defined

1058
00:39:57,027 –> 00:39:58,909
[michelle_richter]: term and it means

1059
00:39:58,954 –> 00:39:59,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1060
00:39:59,330 –> 00:40:06,647
[michelle_richter]: person who holds the authority to sell
verbs this means person has an r a

1061
00:40:06,768 –> 00:40:14,685
[michelle_richter]: affiliation r i s sell verbs only
agents and brokers sell nouns only financial advisers

1062
00:40:14,826 –> 00:40:17,971
[michelle_richter]: provide ongoing asset maximization advising

1063
00:40:18,176 –> 00:40:18,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1064
00:40:18,532 –> 00:40:19,914
[michelle_richter]: and they frequently receive

1065
00:40:19,856 –> 00:40:20,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1066
00:40:19,994 –> 00:40:22,671
[michelle_richter]: thee compensation v a u m

1067
00:40:24,296 –> 00:40:24,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1068
00:40:24,379 –> 00:40:32,051
[michelle_richter]: this asset maximization advising is a service
p imbedded in services for example managed account

1069
00:40:32,212 –> 00:40:33,594
[michelle_richter]: services provided by

1070
00:40:33,626 –> 00:40:35,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1071
00:40:33,754 –> 00:40:38,442
[michelle_richter]: morning star ink are service markable thus
they have been

1072
00:40:38,413 –> 00:40:38,554
[ramsey_d_smith]: sir

1073
00:40:38,602 –> 00:40:46,092
[michelle_richter]: service marked not trade markable and not
trade marked because their verbs which are services

1074
00:40:46,613 –> 00:40:57,288
[michelle_richter]: not none absent codifying insurance advisement so
that insurance professionals can also sell herbs by

1075
00:40:57,368 –> 00:40:57,849
[michelle_richter]: which i am

1076
00:40:57,987 –> 00:40:58,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

1077
00:40:57,989 –> 00:41:04,100
[michelle_richter]: saying absent popularizing ability approach like benefits
under advisement

1078
00:41:04,166 –> 00:41:04,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1079
00:41:04,701 –> 00:41:07,926
[michelle_richter]: or income under advisement there cannot

1080
00:41:07,856 –> 00:41:08,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1081
00:41:08,046 –> 00:41:12,514
[michelle_richter]: be valued to intellectual property in our
field because you cannot

1082
00:41:12,536 –> 00:41:13,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1083
00:41:12,594 –> 00:41:17,842
[michelle_richter]: defend it v s service mark because
there is no framework for scalablyselling services

1084
00:41:17,786 –> 00:41:17,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1085
00:41:17,963 –> 00:41:22,871
[michelle_richter]: in our domain and you can’t sell
it as a noun because an organization can

1086
00:41:23,011 –> 00:41:29,462
[michelle_richter]: only monetize a trade mark and insure
from previous investment in manufacturing and distribution and

1087
00:41:29,542 –> 00:41:35,412
[michelle_richter]: encompant only does this if the product
is more profitable than it’s existing portfolio that’s

1088
00:41:35,512 –> 00:41:36,033
[michelle_richter]: not likely

1089
00:41:35,831 –> 00:41:36,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1090
00:41:36,153 –> 00:41:39,398
[michelle_richter]: in today’s feconte its environment so again
because

1091
00:41:39,386 –> 00:41:40,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1092
00:41:39,458 –> 00:41:40,580
[michelle_richter]: my prior words are true

1093
00:41:41,006 –> 00:41:41,288
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1094
00:41:41,201 –> 00:41:42,884
[michelle_richter]: not having a scale able advisement

1095
00:41:42,902 –> 00:41:42,922
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1096
00:41:42,964 –> 00:41:44,647
[michelle_richter]: frame for liability reduction

1097
00:41:44,952 –> 00:41:44,972
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1098
00:41:45,088 –> 00:41:50,437
[michelle_richter]: means intellectual property that is service marked
in our field also cannot value because it

1099
00:41:50,477 –> 00:41:56,266
[michelle_richter]: cannot be sold so concludes my proof
of assertion to and i’ll move on to

1100
00:41:56,307 –> 00:42:01,316
[michelle_richter]: assertion three and less there are questions
of which i’m sure there are ready oh

1101
00:42:02,944 –> 00:42:04,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is a this is a complex

1102
00:42:04,127 –> 00:42:04,250
[michelle_richter]: ah

1103
00:42:04,446 –> 00:42:06,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: geometric proof you’re taking us through here

1104
00:42:07,475 –> 00:42:08,742
[michelle_richter]: it is i understand that

1105
00:42:08,714 –> 00:42:08,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: europe

1106
00:42:08,842 –> 00:42:10,129
[michelle_richter]: but i’m doing it for a reason

1107
00:42:10,430 –> 00:42:11,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re a mute paul

1108
00:42:11,487 –> 00:42:11,790
[michelle_richter]: i want

1109
00:42:13,257 –> 00:42:13,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1110
00:42:13,325 –> 00:42:18,053
[michelle_richter]: i want the industry organizations that are
or flagged to hear this

1111
00:42:18,446 –> 00:42:18,814
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1112
00:42:18,594 –> 00:42:20,898
[michelle_richter]: re play it they’re gonna have to
play it a lot of times

1113
00:42:20,834 –> 00:42:21,914
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1114
00:42:20,986 –> 00:42:21,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1115
00:42:21,018 –> 00:42:21,719
[michelle_richter]: to get the logic

1116
00:42:22,595 –> 00:42:22,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1117
00:42:22,861 –> 00:42:23,221
[michelle_richter]: and so

1118
00:42:23,156 –> 00:42:23,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1119
00:42:23,522 –> 00:42:24,504
[michelle_richter]: i’m going really

1120
00:42:24,505 –> 00:42:24,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1121
00:42:24,604 –> 00:42:25,786
[michelle_richter]: in depth in what the logic

1122
00:42:25,870 –> 00:42:25,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1123
00:42:25,906 –> 00:42:29,634
[michelle_richter]: is so that it can’t be said
she just at a high level

1124
00:42:29,585 –> 00:42:29,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1125
00:42:29,794 –> 00:42:32,079
[michelle_richter]: said you know something crazy and she’s
always saying

1126
00:42:32,000 –> 00:42:32,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1127
00:42:32,139 –> 00:42:33,602
[michelle_richter]: something crazy so i can just

1128
00:42:33,524 –> 00:42:33,727
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1129
00:42:33,722 –> 00:42:35,807
[michelle_richter]: kind of like whip it off you

1130
00:42:35,745 –> 00:42:35,926
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1131
00:42:35,847 –> 00:42:39,055
[michelle_richter]: know like i’m going deep into it
because my words are true

1132
00:42:39,014 –> 00:42:39,277
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1133
00:42:39,296 –> 00:42:42,243
[michelle_richter]: and they have implications to society more
broadly

1134
00:42:42,334 –> 00:42:44,898
[paul_tyler]: well yeah and i just a couple

1135
00:42:45,596 –> 00:42:45,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1136
00:42:45,779 –> 00:42:46,260
[paul_tyler]: one question

1137
00:42:46,043 –> 00:42:46,284
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1138
00:42:46,360 –> 00:42:46,681
[paul_tyler]: a couple of

1139
00:42:46,685 –> 00:42:46,827
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1140
00:42:46,721 –> 00:42:47,702
[paul_tyler]: observations one is

1141
00:42:47,655 –> 00:42:47,778
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1142
00:42:48,945 –> 00:42:50,728
[paul_tyler]: can we put this in our show
notes or do you have this on a

1143
00:42:50,768 –> 00:42:52,450
[paul_tyler]: website where we can put a link
to it because

1144
00:42:52,355 –> 00:42:52,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1145
00:42:52,490 –> 00:42:53,312
[paul_tyler]: people need to read this

1146
00:42:53,325 –> 00:42:53,468
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1147
00:42:53,773 –> 00:42:54,681
[paul_tyler]: they will have to e is

1148
00:42:54,837 –> 00:42:55,321
[michelle_richter]: i’ll give it to you

1149
00:42:55,374 –> 00:42:56,195
[paul_tyler]: okay good

1150
00:42:56,537 –> 00:42:56,658
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1151
00:42:56,675 –> 00:42:56,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1152
00:42:56,896 –> 00:42:59,060
[paul_tyler]: other observation is you know these words
are

1153
00:42:59,366 –> 00:42:59,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1154
00:43:00,021 –> 00:43:05,591
[paul_tyler]: complicated couple o things i heard in
their agents versus advisors because even more complicated

1155
00:43:05,631 –> 00:43:06,813
[paul_tyler]: michele than that like for instance

1156
00:43:07,717 –> 00:43:07,779
[michelle_richter]: ah

1157
00:43:07,894 –> 00:43:12,562
[paul_tyler]: state of connecticut does not allow us
to talk about agents is that interesting as

1158
00:43:12,662 –> 00:43:17,931
[paul_tyler]: a independent product manufacture we have to
call them independent producers does anybody

1159
00:43:17,912 –> 00:43:17,953
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1160
00:43:17,991 –> 00:43:18,131
[paul_tyler]: know

1161
00:43:18,175 –> 00:43:18,360
[michelle_richter]: huh

1162
00:43:18,192 –> 00:43:19,654
[paul_tyler]: that does anybody under and they

1163
00:43:19,685 –> 00:43:19,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1164
00:43:19,694 –> 00:43:20,616
[paul_tyler]: do consume now

1165
00:43:21,015 –> 00:43:21,137
[michelle_richter]: no

1166
00:43:21,677 –> 00:43:22,960
[paul_tyler]: but that you are an independent

1167
00:43:22,816 –> 00:43:22,918
[michelle_richter]: no

1168
00:43:23,220 –> 00:43:27,988
[paul_tyler]: you know ramsey is an independent producer
so just footnote that there are some very

1169
00:43:28,148 –> 00:43:28,489
[paul_tyler]: strange

1170
00:43:28,195 –> 00:43:28,663
[michelle_richter]: damn

1171
00:43:28,569 –> 00:43:30,732
[paul_tyler]: vagaries in existing

1172
00:43:30,545 –> 00:43:30,786
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1173
00:43:31,193 –> 00:43:31,982
[paul_tyler]: league structures

1174
00:43:32,378 –> 00:43:32,680
[michelle_richter]: and not

1175
00:43:33,164 –> 00:43:33,389
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1176
00:43:33,455 –> 00:43:33,795
[michelle_richter]: that’s the

1177
00:43:33,806 –> 00:43:34,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

1178
00:43:33,855 –> 00:43:37,020
[michelle_richter]: whole point i mean it’s you know
our field is state regulated

1179
00:43:37,004 –> 00:43:37,347
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1180
00:43:37,101 –> 00:43:39,184
[michelle_richter]: and every state has a different impression

1181
00:43:38,904 –> 00:43:38,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1182
00:43:39,324 –> 00:43:40,486
[michelle_richter]: of what our behavior

1183
00:43:40,454 –> 00:43:41,234
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1184
00:43:40,546 –> 00:43:43,972
[michelle_richter]: is supposed to look like and so
because it’s not a nationally

1185
00:43:43,685 –> 00:43:43,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1186
00:43:44,072 –> 00:43:44,633
[michelle_richter]: regulated

1187
00:43:44,497 –> 00:43:44,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1188
00:43:44,733 –> 00:43:46,307
[michelle_richter]: field you can’t get scale able

1189
00:43:46,955 –> 00:43:47,197
[paul_tyler]: right

1190
00:43:48,215 –> 00:43:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1191
00:43:48,425 –> 00:43:52,789
[michelle_richter]: but since but because of demutualization now

1192
00:43:52,856 –> 00:43:52,957
[paul_tyler]: ah

1193
00:43:53,771 –> 00:43:57,898
[michelle_richter]: it’s no longer the case that distribution
and manufacturing are in the same

1194
00:43:57,867 –> 00:43:57,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1195
00:43:57,998 –> 00:43:58,799
[michelle_richter]: organization

1196
00:43:58,946 –> 00:43:59,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1197
00:43:59,480 –> 00:44:02,726
[michelle_richter]: so i’m not sure that the i’m
sure

1198
00:44:02,735 –> 00:44:03,001
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

1199
00:44:02,866 –> 00:44:05,110
[michelle_richter]: that state regulation of products

1200
00:44:04,676 –> 00:44:05,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1201
00:44:05,390 –> 00:44:06,712
[michelle_richter]: is has merit

1202
00:44:06,944 –> 00:44:08,294
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1203
00:44:07,313 –> 00:44:09,337
[michelle_richter]: i’m less certain that state regulation of

1204
00:44:09,335 –> 00:44:09,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1205
00:44:09,374 –> 00:44:09,741
[paul_tyler]: okay

1206
00:44:09,397 –> 00:44:13,964
[michelle_richter]: distribution remains the most meritorious method of
oversight

1207
00:44:14,004 –> 00:44:14,186
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1208
00:44:14,276 –> 00:44:14,517
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1209
00:44:14,727 –> 00:44:19,767
[michelle_richter]: given that those entities no longer live
with each other no

1210
00:44:20,446 –> 00:44:22,109
[paul_tyler]: interesting ay that’s a whole nother podcast

1211
00:44:21,926 –> 00:44:21,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1212
00:44:23,527 –> 00:44:23,729
[michelle_richter]: yes

1213
00:44:24,112 –> 00:44:24,412
[paul_tyler]: the other

1214
00:44:24,301 –> 00:44:24,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1215
00:44:24,553 –> 00:44:25,735
[paul_tyler]: observation i love

1216
00:44:25,685 –> 00:44:25,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1217
00:44:25,815 –> 00:44:29,281
[paul_tyler]: your concept of income under management however

1218
00:44:29,516 –> 00:44:29,819
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1219
00:44:29,521 –> 00:44:33,307
[paul_tyler]: man my head starts to spend because
think of any one of our products g

1220
00:44:33,488 –> 00:44:33,688
[paul_tyler]: is that

1221
00:44:33,656 –> 00:44:34,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1222
00:44:33,708 –> 00:44:38,196
[paul_tyler]: the you know i’m not expecting is
that the guaranteed income off of the product

1223
00:44:38,376 –> 00:44:39,818
[paul_tyler]: is this the potential

1224
00:44:39,875 –> 00:44:40,019
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1225
00:44:39,899 –> 00:44:41,942
[paul_tyler]: income based on you mark you know

1226
00:44:41,985 –> 00:44:43,427
[michelle_richter]: it’s the max of

1227
00:44:43,484 –> 00:44:43,747
[paul_tyler]: yea

1228
00:44:44,008 –> 00:44:52,682
[michelle_richter]: the guaranteed benefit made available through the
product structure or dolls translation metric that was

1229
00:44:53,003 –> 00:44:53,784
[michelle_richter]: interim final

1230
00:44:53,756 –> 00:44:54,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1231
00:44:54,065 –> 00:44:54,185
[michelle_richter]: dan

1232
00:44:54,224 –> 00:44:54,508
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1233
00:44:54,425 –> 00:44:57,891
[michelle_richter]: i think became final guidance on second
quarter twenty twenty

1234
00:44:57,725 –> 00:44:57,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1235
00:44:57,951 –> 00:44:58,692
[michelle_richter]: two statements

1236
00:44:58,346 –> 00:44:58,879
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1237
00:44:59,253 –> 00:44:59,414
[michelle_richter]: that

1238
00:44:59,426 –> 00:44:59,749
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1239
00:44:59,554 –> 00:45:01,337
[michelle_richter]: translated assets to income

1240
00:45:01,706 –> 00:45:02,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1241
00:45:01,838 –> 00:45:04,402
[michelle_richter]: that would be the appropriate method by
which to

1242
00:45:04,405 –> 00:45:04,526
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1243
00:45:04,502 –> 00:45:05,023
[michelle_richter]: accomplish

1244
00:45:04,826 –> 00:45:05,212
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1245
00:45:05,564 –> 00:45:06,206
[michelle_richter]: a building base

1246
00:45:06,146 –> 00:45:06,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1247
00:45:06,306 –> 00:45:07,492
[michelle_richter]: where income under management

1248
00:45:09,566 –> 00:45:09,892
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1249
00:45:12,490 –> 00:45:12,591
[michelle_richter]: so

1250
00:45:12,566 –> 00:45:12,707
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1251
00:45:13,415 –> 00:45:17,582
[michelle_richter]: it should be considered in my view
and in particular it should be considered because

1252
00:45:17,822 –> 00:45:21,909
[michelle_richter]: aria has retirement income in the name
is

1253
00:45:21,837 –> 00:45:21,857
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1254
00:45:22,009 –> 00:45:23,431
[michelle_richter]: not about maximization

1255
00:45:23,045 –> 00:45:23,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1256
00:45:23,491 –> 00:45:24,092
[michelle_richter]: of assets

1257
00:45:23,734 –> 00:45:24,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1258
00:45:24,373 –> 00:45:25,535
[michelle_richter]: everybody complain is

1259
00:45:25,616 –> 00:45:25,778
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1260
00:45:25,635 –> 00:45:29,842
[michelle_richter]: that d c is focused exclusively on
acid accumulation

1261
00:45:29,987 –> 00:45:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1262
00:45:30,343 –> 00:45:35,351
[michelle_richter]: and you want to know why it’s
because of the method by which compensation occurs

1263
00:45:35,852 –> 00:45:36,092
[michelle_richter]: right

1264
00:45:35,936 –> 00:45:36,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1265
00:45:36,934 –> 00:45:41,274
[michelle_richter]: like it always is right everywhere in
humanity

1266
00:45:41,285 –> 00:45:41,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1267
00:45:41,536 –> 00:45:42,261
[michelle_richter]: that’s the truth

1268
00:45:43,085 –> 00:45:43,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1269
00:45:43,425 –> 00:45:47,270
[michelle_richter]: so you know if we want something
different and we continue to do the same

1270
00:45:47,350 –> 00:45:52,367
[michelle_richter]: thing we experience the definition of crazy
so

1271
00:45:52,376 –> 00:45:52,597
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1272
00:45:52,567 –> 00:45:55,519
[michelle_richter]: in order to do to accomplish something
different we must do

1273
00:45:55,526 –> 00:45:56,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1274
00:45:55,639 –> 00:45:56,322
[michelle_richter]: something different

1275
00:45:57,575 –> 00:45:57,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1276
00:45:59,065 –> 00:46:03,672
[michelle_richter]: my third assertion is that the impossibility
of intellectual property

1277
00:46:03,716 –> 00:46:03,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1278
00:46:03,772 –> 00:46:10,504
[michelle_richter]: having value in my field is an
offense about which utter outrage is merited it

1279
00:46:10,564 –> 00:46:10,624
[michelle_richter]: is

1280
00:46:10,646 –> 00:46:10,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1281
00:46:10,844 –> 00:46:18,457
[michelle_richter]: i direct affront to the very principles
of capitalism capitalism as a governing frame relies

1282
00:46:18,637 –> 00:46:25,589
[michelle_richter]: heavily upon intellectual property being protectable and
mont is able so as to encourage invention

1283
00:46:26,186 –> 00:46:26,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1284
00:46:26,390 –> 00:46:30,898
[michelle_richter]: thus i question why is mine the
soul field in this

1285
00:46:30,785 –> 00:46:30,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1286
00:46:30,998 –> 00:46:36,487
[michelle_richter]: country to which capitalism is not permitted
to apply on why are other members of

1287
00:46:36,587 –> 00:46:41,856
[michelle_richter]: my community not apoplectic about my true
words consider the

1288
00:46:41,825 –> 00:46:42,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1289
00:46:41,936 –> 00:46:49,088
[michelle_richter]: implications that not codifying verb sales in
our domain has now that post secure annuities

1290
00:46:49,268 –> 00:46:56,480
[michelle_richter]: are permissible in plans plan advisors like
all other faduciaries in america are inherently taught

1291
00:46:56,580 –> 00:47:04,213
[michelle_richter]: that asset maximization is the only valid
lens through which financial advisement can occur yet

1292
00:47:04,494 –> 00:47:09,843
[michelle_richter]: i believe that financials occur not only
on the left side of the consumer balance

1293
00:47:09,923 –> 00:47:16,173
[michelle_richter]: sheet but all so on their income
statement their statement of net worth their cash

1294
00:47:16,253 –> 00:47:16,434
[michelle_richter]: flow

1295
00:47:16,376 –> 00:47:16,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1296
00:47:16,574 –> 00:47:18,918
[michelle_richter]: statement and the right side

1297
00:47:18,686 –> 00:47:18,948
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1298
00:47:19,018 –> 00:47:20,681
[michelle_richter]: of their balance sheet which

1299
00:47:20,524 –> 00:47:20,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1300
00:47:20,741 –> 00:47:23,225
[michelle_richter]: is where insurance plays plan

1301
00:47:23,156 –> 00:47:24,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1302
00:47:23,366 –> 00:47:25,818
[michelle_richter]: advisors don’t know annuities and vice

1303
00:47:25,676 –> 00:47:26,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1304
00:47:25,919 –> 00:47:31,211
[michelle_richter]: versa advisors can’t even begin to imagine
why we insurance

1305
00:47:30,795 –> 00:47:30,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1306
00:47:31,271 –> 00:47:36,400
[michelle_richter]: people believe our solutions have value because
they are taught to see the world through

1307
00:47:36,440 –> 00:47:38,343
[michelle_richter]: the lens of asset maximization

1308
00:47:37,916 –> 00:47:38,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1309
00:47:38,844 –> 00:47:44,373
[michelle_richter]: in there not taught about liability minimization
as a valid entry point to a consumer

1310
00:47:44,473 –> 00:47:45,395
[michelle_richter]: finance world view

1311
00:47:45,695 –> 00:47:45,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1312
00:47:46,517 –> 00:47:47,959
[michelle_richter]: annuities in d c will

1313
00:47:47,906 –> 00:47:48,152
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1314
00:47:48,140 –> 00:47:51,385
[michelle_richter]: only take off if we band together
to fight for their ace

1315
00:47:51,905 –> 00:47:51,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1316
00:47:52,407 –> 00:47:53,088
[michelle_richter]: actuaries

1317
00:47:52,611 –> 00:47:52,632
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1318
00:47:53,208 –> 00:47:56,053
[michelle_richter]: for example used to have a role
in asset

1319
00:47:56,126 –> 00:47:57,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1320
00:47:56,133 –> 00:47:57,956
[michelle_richter]: liability matching when we

1321
00:47:57,905 –> 00:47:57,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1322
00:47:58,196 –> 00:48:00,941
[michelle_richter]: as a society had defined benefit pension
plans

1323
00:48:00,845 –> 00:48:00,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1324
00:48:01,902 –> 00:48:06,408
[michelle_richter]: but now in d c there isn’t
a natural spot for an actuary in d

1325
00:48:06,628 –> 00:48:06,648
[michelle_richter]: c

1326
00:48:06,905 –> 00:48:06,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1327
00:48:06,968 –> 00:48:07,348
[michelle_richter]: because

1328
00:48:07,556 –> 00:48:07,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1329
00:48:07,809 –> 00:48:14,235
[michelle_richter]: liability consideration is not yet required so
as to advise in d c s d

1330
00:48:14,455 –> 00:48:23,951
[michelle_richter]: c again naturally emphasizes asset maximization so
the society of actuaries nata and iri must

1331
00:48:24,192 –> 00:48:28,879
[michelle_richter]: all strongly consider the possibly ity that
my words might be true and if they

1332
00:48:28,979 –> 00:48:31,723
[michelle_richter]: feel they might be they need to
begin acting

1333
00:48:31,525 –> 00:48:31,646
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1334
00:48:31,983 –> 00:48:34,056
[michelle_richter]: yesterday representatives

1335
00:48:33,866 –> 00:48:34,049
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1336
00:48:34,196 –> 00:48:36,320
[michelle_richter]: of any of these industry organizations

1337
00:48:36,446 –> 00:48:38,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1338
00:48:36,560 –> 00:48:40,507
[michelle_richter]: or other organizations that can help change
the circumstances

1339
00:48:40,316 –> 00:48:40,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1340
00:48:40,627 –> 00:48:43,912
[michelle_richter]: i have just described are invited to
email me at

1341
00:48:44,195 –> 00:48:44,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1342
00:48:44,213 –> 00:48:48,300
[michelle_richter]: m rector f s at g mail
dot com and request a

1343
00:48:48,296 –> 00:48:48,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1344
00:48:48,380 –> 00:48:50,844
[michelle_richter]: death that further explains this perspective

1345
00:48:50,906 –> 00:48:51,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1346
00:48:51,245 –> 00:48:53,689
[michelle_richter]: and the dangers that follow logically therefrom

1347
00:48:54,418 –> 00:48:54,479
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

1348
00:48:54,590 –> 00:48:59,799
[michelle_richter]: lastly for this diatribe i hold and
and advisement should be a national field again

1349
00:48:59,979 –> 00:49:05,268
[michelle_richter]: it is not about the non placement
it is about contextual advisement it is not

1350
00:49:05,348 –> 00:49:11,478
[michelle_richter]: persacorrelated to an individual contract the way
some state insurance law allows annuity consulting to

1351
00:49:11,558 –> 00:49:13,862
[michelle_richter]: a car that does not make sense
to be

1352
00:49:13,886 –> 00:49:14,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1353
00:49:13,942 –> 00:49:20,133
[michelle_richter]: state regulated should be policed similarly to
how r s are overseen achieving this framework

1354
00:49:20,273 –> 00:49:25,822
[michelle_richter]: is my career goal twenty seven years
remain until i begin taking social security at

1355
00:49:25,902 –> 00:49:31,932
[michelle_richter]: age seventy it thus follows logically that
i will not stop truthfully communicating my concerns

1356
00:49:32,013 –> 00:49:34,429
[michelle_richter]: on these matters for at least twenty
seven more years

1357
00:49:34,586 –> 00:49:34,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1358
00:49:35,616 –> 00:49:37,915
[michelle_richter]: or until it’s solved so

1359
00:49:38,036 –> 00:49:38,359
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1360
00:49:38,436 –> 00:49:41,000
[michelle_richter]: i thank you so much for your
patients and listening to me

1361
00:49:40,955 –> 00:49:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1362
00:49:41,080 –> 00:49:41,761
[michelle_richter]: through all of that

1363
00:49:41,748 –> 00:49:43,090
[bruno_caron]: oh

1364
00:49:41,841 –> 00:49:44,586
[michelle_richter]: i know it was a lot and
i know

1365
00:49:44,576 –> 00:49:44,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1366
00:49:44,866 –> 00:49:47,751
[michelle_richter]: you suffered but but i think

1367
00:49:47,726 –> 00:49:48,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1368
00:49:48,092 –> 00:49:49,274
[michelle_richter]: i think my words are true

1369
00:49:49,458 –> 00:49:50,268
[bruno_caron]: oh

1370
00:49:49,534 –> 00:49:50,908
[michelle_richter]: right time scared they might be

1371
00:49:51,318 –> 00:49:51,543
[bruno_caron]: oh

1372
00:49:51,716 –> 00:49:52,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1373
00:49:51,965 –> 00:49:52,911
[michelle_richter]: so i feel that

1374
00:49:53,088 –> 00:49:54,018
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1375
00:49:53,234 –> 00:49:54,261
[michelle_richter]: they should be considered

1376
00:49:54,686 –> 00:49:55,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1377
00:49:55,475 –> 00:49:56,398
[michelle_richter]: thank you for giving me

1378
00:49:56,456 –> 00:49:56,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1379
00:49:56,779 –> 00:49:57,501
[michelle_richter]: the audience to

1380
00:49:57,498 –> 00:49:57,699
[bruno_caron]: oh

1381
00:49:57,541 –> 00:49:58,103
[michelle_richter]: share that with

1382
00:49:59,818 –> 00:50:01,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: well thank you for sharing your thoughts

1383
00:50:01,236 –> 00:50:01,617
[michelle_richter]: esto

1384
00:50:01,538 –> 00:50:01,698
[bruno_caron]: thank

1385
00:50:01,560 –> 00:50:01,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: michelle

1386
00:50:01,778 –> 00:50:01,938
[bruno_caron]: you

1387
00:50:04,966 –> 00:50:05,127
[michelle_richter]: yes

1388
00:50:05,961 –> 00:50:06,082
[bruno_caron]: it’s

1389
00:50:06,086 –> 00:50:07,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1390
00:50:08,624 –> 00:50:08,684
[bruno_caron]: we

1391
00:50:08,685 –> 00:50:08,926
[michelle_richter]: oh

1392
00:50:09,044 –> 00:50:11,326
[bruno_caron]: already knew that there was never a
dull moment with

1393
00:50:11,266 –> 00:50:11,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1394
00:50:11,295 –> 00:50:14,565
[michelle_richter]: oh

1395
00:50:11,386 –> 00:50:11,486
[bruno_caron]: you

1396
00:50:14,600 –> 00:50:16,683
[bruno_caron]: but you prove that once more one
more time

1397
00:50:17,115 –> 00:50:18,348
[michelle_richter]: uh

1398
00:50:17,344 –> 00:50:17,605
[bruno_caron]: uh

1399
00:50:18,035 –> 00:50:18,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: h right

1400
00:50:18,874 –> 00:50:18,915
[michelle_richter]: uh

1401
00:50:19,127 –> 00:50:20,450
[bruno_caron]: i have a feeling we just went

1402
00:50:20,456 –> 00:50:20,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1403
00:50:20,510 –> 00:50:22,894
[bruno_caron]: back to basically college to logic

1404
00:50:22,706 –> 00:50:22,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1405
00:50:22,954 –> 00:50:23,354
[bruno_caron]: classes

1406
00:50:23,415 –> 00:50:25,605
[michelle_richter]: oh

1407
00:50:23,455 –> 00:50:25,618
[bruno_caron]: philosophy cal classes low

1408
00:50:25,445 –> 00:50:25,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1409
00:50:25,738 –> 00:50:26,620
[bruno_caron]: classes math

1410
00:50:26,715 –> 00:50:26,977
[michelle_richter]: oh

1411
00:50:26,720 –> 00:50:29,685
[bruno_caron]: classes accounting classes um

1412
00:50:30,126 –> 00:50:30,247
[michelle_richter]: es

1413
00:50:31,076 –> 00:50:31,583
[mark_chamberlain]: hm

1414
00:50:31,308 –> 00:50:31,388
[bruno_caron]: and

1415
00:50:31,435 –> 00:50:31,803
[michelle_richter]: that’s right

1416
00:50:33,146 –> 00:50:34,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1417
00:50:33,612 –> 00:50:34,012
[bruno_caron]: i always

1418
00:50:34,496 –> 00:50:35,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1419
00:50:34,834 –> 00:50:35,915
[bruno_caron]: i always like the analogy

1420
00:50:35,576 –> 00:50:35,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1421
00:50:35,935 –> 00:50:37,137
[bruno_caron]: between the balance sheet in the end

1422
00:50:37,076 –> 00:50:37,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1423
00:50:37,378 –> 00:50:40,323
[bruno_caron]: statement but you bring it a step
forward

1424
00:50:40,106 –> 00:50:40,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1425
00:50:40,423 –> 00:50:44,550
[bruno_caron]: you know a step further with with
the right hand side of the balance sheet

1426
00:50:44,630 –> 00:50:45,251
[bruno_caron]: the net worth

1427
00:50:45,266 –> 00:50:45,286
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1428
00:50:45,612 –> 00:50:46,233
[bruno_caron]: the cash little

1429
00:50:46,256 –> 00:50:46,419
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1430
00:50:46,273 –> 00:50:46,673
[bruno_caron]: statement

1431
00:50:47,246 –> 00:50:47,488
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1432
00:50:47,915 –> 00:50:53,905
[bruno_caron]: and you know and in such an
eloquent way so i hope the the stake

1433
00:50:53,946 –> 00:50:54,326
[bruno_caron]: holders

1434
00:50:54,729 –> 00:50:54,893
[ramsey_d_smith]: kay

1435
00:50:54,767 –> 00:50:56,690
[bruno_caron]: will make it to the right stake
holders

1436
00:50:56,486 –> 00:50:56,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1437
00:50:57,091 –> 00:50:57,251
[bruno_caron]: and

1438
00:50:57,356 –> 00:50:58,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1439
00:50:58,413 –> 00:50:59,335
[bruno_caron]: we’ll definitely push for that

1440
00:51:00,815 –> 00:51:02,216
[michelle_richter]: thank you thank you

1441
00:51:02,195 –> 00:51:02,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1442
00:51:02,396 –> 00:51:08,683
[michelle_richter]: so much you guys really elevate the
dialogue in our industry i appreciate the work

1443
00:51:08,763 –> 00:51:09,824
[michelle_richter]: that you do so much

1444
00:51:11,336 –> 00:51:13,602
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah all you’re on mute

1445
00:51:13,455 –> 00:51:13,864
[michelle_richter]: oh

1446
00:51:15,509 –> 00:51:15,529
[bruno_caron]: m

1447
00:51:15,836 –> 00:51:16,016
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1448
00:51:16,676 –> 00:51:16,837
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1449
00:51:17,614 –> 00:51:19,938
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m telling it’s two thousand
twenty two is

1450
00:51:19,946 –> 00:51:20,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1451
00:51:20,018 –> 00:51:21,541
[paul_tyler]: almost okay two thousand twenty three

1452
00:51:21,545 –> 00:51:21,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1453
00:51:21,621 –> 00:51:22,262
[paul_tyler]: that will not be

1454
00:51:22,196 –> 00:51:22,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1455
00:51:22,322 –> 00:51:24,666
[paul_tyler]: a word but yeah michell

1456
00:51:24,555 –> 00:51:24,797
[michelle_richter]: uh

1457
00:51:24,846 –> 00:51:24,926
[paul_tyler]: no

1458
00:51:25,343 –> 00:51:25,363
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1459
00:51:25,467 –> 00:51:25,888
[paul_tyler]: no no

1460
00:51:25,865 –> 00:51:25,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1461
00:51:26,008 –> 00:51:26,309
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1462
00:51:26,276 –> 00:51:27,000
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1463
00:51:26,349 –> 00:51:26,389
[paul_tyler]: i

1464
00:51:26,434 –> 00:51:26,475
[michelle_richter]: uh

1465
00:51:26,449 –> 00:51:27,290
[paul_tyler]: think look

1466
00:51:27,785 –> 00:51:27,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1467
00:51:28,292 –> 00:51:28,632
[paul_tyler]: it takes

1468
00:51:28,433 –> 00:51:28,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1469
00:51:28,693 –> 00:51:29,474
[paul_tyler]: a lot to to

1470
00:51:29,541 –> 00:51:29,723
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

1471
00:51:29,634 –> 00:51:30,194
[paul_tyler]: change this

1472
00:51:30,095 –> 00:51:30,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1473
00:51:30,295 –> 00:51:31,716
[paul_tyler]: world and you know your your

1474
00:51:32,546 –> 00:51:32,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1475
00:51:32,997 –> 00:51:33,758
[paul_tyler]: wow to

1476
00:51:34,046 –> 00:51:34,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1477
00:51:34,639 –> 00:51:37,662
[paul_tyler]: provide more retirement security for people especially
the war

1478
00:51:37,646 –> 00:51:37,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1479
00:51:37,762 –> 00:51:38,482
[paul_tyler]: place is

1480
00:51:40,579 –> 00:51:41,539
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah yeah

1481
00:51:42,709 –> 00:51:42,789
[paul_tyler]: it

1482
00:51:43,526 –> 00:51:43,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1483
00:51:44,471 –> 00:51:47,496
[paul_tyler]: requires a lot of different organizations

1484
00:51:47,186 –> 00:51:47,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1485
00:51:47,577 –> 00:51:48,638
[paul_tyler]: and legal structures

1486
00:51:48,206 –> 00:51:48,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1487
00:51:48,739 –> 00:51:50,341
[paul_tyler]: to change to make sense

1488
00:51:51,755 –> 00:51:51,899
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1489
00:51:51,924 –> 00:51:56,912
[paul_tyler]: especially when you think of a typical
company may have employes in all fifty states

1490
00:51:58,014 –> 00:51:59,977
[paul_tyler]: fifty different state laws may apply

1491
00:52:01,565 –> 00:52:01,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1492
00:52:01,969 –> 00:52:02,535
[michelle_richter]: hm

1493
00:52:02,161 –> 00:52:03,563
[paul_tyler]: securities and exchange

1494
00:52:03,239 –> 00:52:04,890
[michelle_richter]: there is no commissions in arica

1495
00:52:04,994 –> 00:52:05,760
[paul_tyler]: uh

1496
00:52:05,216 –> 00:52:05,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1497
00:52:05,815 –> 00:52:07,743
[michelle_richter]: so how are you going to pay
the insurance expert

1498
00:52:07,955 –> 00:52:07,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1499
00:52:08,496 –> 00:52:09,780
[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s this is a challenge

1500
00:52:09,515 –> 00:52:09,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1501
00:52:09,800 –> 00:52:09,860
[paul_tyler]: so

1502
00:52:10,256 –> 00:52:10,461
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1503
00:52:11,216 –> 00:52:11,898
[paul_tyler]: question for you is

1504
00:52:12,185 –> 00:52:12,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1505
00:52:13,284 –> 00:52:17,110
[paul_tyler]: yes we untangle you know the gordian
not here

1506
00:52:17,254 –> 00:52:17,295
[michelle_richter]: uh

1507
00:52:18,392 –> 00:52:23,661
[paul_tyler]: if i’m a typical employe five years
ten years from now how is the experience

1508
00:52:23,741 –> 00:52:26,711
[paul_tyler]: different then it is today

1509
00:52:29,276 –> 00:52:32,441
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s much more likely that
more plans

1510
00:52:32,213 –> 00:52:32,233
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1511
00:52:32,622 –> 00:52:40,615
[michelle_richter]: provide access to a financial professional like
through the employer preveded and financial professional think

1512
00:52:40,695 –> 00:52:40,815
[michelle_richter]: it’s

1513
00:52:41,105 –> 00:52:41,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1514
00:52:41,497 –> 00:52:46,285
[michelle_richter]: that’s already becoming a thing and i
think there’ll be more of that

1515
00:52:46,934 –> 00:52:47,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

1516
00:52:47,707 –> 00:52:52,595
[michelle_richter]: and frankly there a lot of plan
advisors who are interested in entering into wealth

1517
00:52:52,695 –> 00:52:53,937
[michelle_richter]: management domain

1518
00:52:53,876 –> 00:52:53,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1519
00:52:54,098 –> 00:52:55,119
[michelle_richter]: so they’re going to gladly

1520
00:52:54,986 –> 00:52:55,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1521
00:52:55,219 –> 00:52:59,647
[michelle_richter]: provide it and that’s going to be
a threat to my people unless my people

1522
00:53:00,027 –> 00:53:00,268
[michelle_richter]: start

1523
00:53:00,146 –> 00:53:00,449
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1524
00:53:00,648 –> 00:53:01,891
[michelle_richter]: moving towards the d c

1525
00:53:02,015 –> 00:53:02,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1526
00:53:02,111 –> 00:53:06,728
[michelle_richter]: space right and how do they how
to you know have our place set the

1527
00:53:06,768 –> 00:53:07,030
[michelle_richter]: table

1528
00:53:07,354 –> 00:53:07,554
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1529
00:53:07,371 –> 00:53:07,552
[michelle_richter]: right

1530
00:53:08,015 –> 00:53:11,100
[paul_tyler]: well bruno we literally are at the
top of the hour

1531
00:53:12,285 –> 00:53:12,506
[michelle_richter]: uh

1532
00:53:12,703 –> 00:53:12,823
[paul_tyler]: what

1533
00:53:13,414 –> 00:53:13,455
[michelle_richter]: uh

1534
00:53:13,445 –> 00:53:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1535
00:53:14,065 –> 00:53:17,290
[paul_tyler]: last final words observations

1536
00:53:19,259 –> 00:53:19,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

1537
00:53:19,274 –> 00:53:20,264
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1538
00:53:19,860 –> 00:53:20,001
[bruno_caron]: boy

1539
00:53:20,546 –> 00:53:21,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1540
00:53:20,822 –> 00:53:23,627
[bruno_caron]: i have a list of questions i
don’t even go through my notes and some

1541
00:53:23,667 –> 00:53:23,967
[bruno_caron]: of the things

1542
00:53:24,015 –> 00:53:27,034
[michelle_richter]: yea

1543
00:53:24,248 –> 00:53:26,832
[bruno_caron]: i wanted to talk about and i
wrote more

1544
00:53:27,005 –> 00:53:27,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1545
00:53:27,173 –> 00:53:30,097
[bruno_caron]: it’s usually the other way around so
i don’t even know where to start

1546
00:53:29,986 –> 00:53:30,474
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1547
00:53:30,238 –> 00:53:32,321
[bruno_caron]: to even to

1548
00:53:32,295 –> 00:53:32,477
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1549
00:53:32,421 –> 00:53:33,223
[bruno_caron]: even to even

1550
00:53:33,304 –> 00:53:33,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1551
00:53:33,423 –> 00:53:34,966
[bruno_caron]: end this but

1552
00:53:34,995 –> 00:53:35,217
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1553
00:53:35,346 –> 00:53:36,047
[bruno_caron]: i’ll simply say

1554
00:53:36,005 –> 00:53:36,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1555
00:53:36,148 –> 00:53:37,971
[bruno_caron]: thank you and we also

1556
00:53:37,895 –> 00:53:37,916
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1557
00:53:38,071 –> 00:53:38,712
[bruno_caron]: very very

1558
00:53:38,615 –> 00:53:38,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1559
00:53:38,752 –> 00:53:39,373
[bruno_caron]: much appreciate

1560
00:53:39,476 –> 00:53:39,824
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1561
00:53:39,513 –> 00:53:44,682
[bruno_caron]: all all you do for the industry
and such uh passionate and eloquent

1562
00:53:44,595 –> 00:53:44,796
[michelle_richter]: oh

1563
00:53:45,063 –> 00:53:46,906
[bruno_caron]: and rigorous would the

1564
00:53:46,871 –> 00:53:47,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1565
00:53:47,247 –> 00:53:47,347
[bruno_caron]: you

1566
00:53:47,276 –> 00:53:47,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1567
00:53:47,367 –> 00:53:50,874
[bruno_caron]: know kind of a word to you
so thank you

1568
00:53:51,998 –> 00:53:53,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’ll just i’ll just

1569
00:53:53,145 –> 00:53:53,955
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1570
00:53:53,160 –> 00:53:58,428
[ramsey_d_smith]: echo that you know thank you michelle
look you you’re you’re willing to break some

1571
00:53:58,488 –> 00:54:00,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: glass which i think is always important

1572
00:54:01,005 –> 00:54:01,085
[paul_tyler]: ah

1573
00:54:01,512 –> 00:54:02,058
[bruno_caron]: hm

1574
00:54:01,553 –> 00:54:03,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and

1575
00:54:03,285 –> 00:54:04,245
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1576
00:54:04,198 –> 00:54:06,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and i’ll tell the audience like

1577
00:54:06,978 –> 00:54:07,222
[bruno_caron]: oh

1578
00:54:07,503 –> 00:54:12,311
[ramsey_d_smith]: well two things one is a huge
believer i’m a huge believer in the potential

1579
00:54:12,372 –> 00:54:16,759
[ramsey_d_smith]: for implantanuities and in the d the
importance of annuities in the d c space

1580
00:54:16,799 –> 00:54:19,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: to solve the retirement problem and you
know

1581
00:54:20,088 –> 00:54:20,375
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1582
00:54:20,205 –> 00:54:21,046
[ramsey_d_smith]: basically putting my money

1583
00:54:20,958 –> 00:54:21,220
[bruno_caron]: oh

1584
00:54:21,066 –> 00:54:25,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: where my mouth is and you know
as i as i take this journey a

1585
00:54:25,493 –> 00:54:29,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of times when when want to
find out what’s going on one of my

1586
00:54:29,540 –> 00:54:31,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: very first calls is to michelle rector
so

1587
00:54:32,358 –> 00:54:32,559
[bruno_caron]: oh

1588
00:54:32,425 –> 00:54:35,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would say that to anybody in
the audience you would you would do well

1589
00:54:35,931 –> 00:54:39,758
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to reach out to michelle if
you if you want to become

1590
00:54:39,854 –> 00:54:41,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

1591
00:54:40,019 –> 00:54:43,609
[ramsey_d_smith]: more up to speed on on really
what is a very sort of complex space

1592
00:54:43,689 –> 00:54:45,314
[ramsey_d_smith]: so thank you for playing that role
michele

1593
00:54:47,125 –> 00:54:47,246
[michelle_richter]: oh

1594
00:54:47,416 –> 00:54:47,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1595
00:54:47,969 –> 00:54:48,712
[michelle_richter]: thank you so much

1596
00:54:49,119 –> 00:54:50,180
[paul_tyler]: michelle thank you mark

1597
00:54:50,006 –> 00:54:50,936
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1598
00:54:50,281 –> 00:54:50,741
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1599
00:54:51,236 –> 00:54:51,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1600
00:54:51,563 –> 00:54:52,745
[paul_tyler]: hey bruno what i would suggest

1601
00:54:52,766 –> 00:54:52,927
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1602
00:54:52,825 –> 00:54:56,571
[paul_tyler]: doing is let’s put your questions in
the linkedon post once this thing goes alive

1603
00:54:56,730 –> 00:54:56,915
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1604
00:54:56,932 –> 00:54:57,252
[paul_tyler]: michelle

1605
00:54:57,198 –> 00:54:57,622
[bruno_caron]: oh

1606
00:54:57,412 –> 00:54:57,993
[paul_tyler]: let’s let’s conti

1607
00:54:58,106 –> 00:54:58,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1608
00:54:58,414 –> 00:55:00,057
[paul_tyler]: mark let’s continue the discussion there

1609
00:55:00,106 –> 00:55:00,675
[michelle_richter]: absolutely

1610
00:55:00,568 –> 00:55:01,739
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1611
00:55:01,700 –> 00:55:05,646
[paul_tyler]: lot of threads to pull here a
lot of dimensions i think

1612
00:55:05,576 –> 00:55:05,720
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1613
00:55:05,706 –> 00:55:06,207
[paul_tyler]: that we could

1614
00:55:06,605 –> 00:55:06,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1615
00:55:07,021 –> 00:55:07,142
[michelle_richter]: yep

1616
00:55:07,850 –> 00:55:09,993
[paul_tyler]: explore please

1617
00:55:10,446 –> 00:55:14,192
[michelle_richter]: i am an interesting follow on link
down so

1618
00:55:14,155 –> 00:55:17,564
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1619
00:55:14,433 –> 00:55:14,914
[michelle_richter]: consider

1620
00:55:14,716 –> 00:55:15,228
[bruno_caron]: hm

1621
00:55:14,974 –> 00:55:15,054
[michelle_richter]: it

1622
00:55:15,348 –> 00:55:15,671
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1623
00:55:15,716 –> 00:55:15,737
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1624
00:55:16,985 –> 00:55:17,167
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1625
00:55:17,462 –> 00:55:17,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1626
00:55:17,478 –> 00:55:18,500
[michelle_richter]: if any part of this

1627
00:55:18,438 –> 00:55:18,639
[bruno_caron]: oh

1628
00:55:18,605 –> 00:55:18,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1629
00:55:18,620 –> 00:55:19,261
[michelle_richter]: was appealing

1630
00:55:19,286 –> 00:55:19,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1631
00:55:19,321 –> 00:55:19,641
[michelle_richter]: to you

1632
00:55:19,754 –> 00:55:21,014
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1633
00:55:20,403 –> 00:55:20,783
[michelle_richter]: you should

1634
00:55:20,817 –> 00:55:20,838
[bruno_caron]: m

1635
00:55:20,863 –> 00:55:21,324
[michelle_richter]: consider

1636
00:55:20,966 –> 00:55:21,187
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1637
00:55:21,464 –> 00:55:21,864
[paul_tyler]: i agree

1638
00:55:21,726 –> 00:55:22,087
[michelle_richter]: allowing

1639
00:55:21,778 –> 00:55:21,980
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1640
00:55:22,127 –> 00:55:22,489
[michelle_richter]: in linked

1641
00:55:22,405 –> 00:55:22,485
[paul_tyler]: no

1642
00:55:22,529 –> 00:55:22,589
[michelle_richter]: in

1643
00:55:22,626 –> 00:55:23,587
[paul_tyler]: i agree so okay

1644
00:55:23,486 –> 00:55:24,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1645
00:55:23,727 –> 00:55:25,010
[paul_tyler]: continue it there we’ll move this

1646
00:55:24,926 –> 00:55:24,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1647
00:55:25,070 –> 00:55:26,712
[paul_tyler]: from audio to text

1648
00:55:26,516 –> 00:55:26,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1649
00:55:26,833 –> 00:55:27,393
[paul_tyler]: on linked in

1650
00:55:28,128 –> 00:55:28,496
[bruno_caron]: oh

1651
00:55:28,395 –> 00:55:31,420
[paul_tyler]: mark michelle thank you ramsey bruno thank
you michelle

1652
00:55:31,796 –> 00:55:31,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1653
00:55:31,821 –> 00:55:34,265
[paul_tyler]: either sent us a link to what
you just read or send us the text

1654
00:55:34,305 –> 00:55:35,166
[paul_tyler]: and we’ll pop it in the

1655
00:55:35,105 –> 00:55:35,266
[michelle_richter]: yes

1656
00:55:35,227 –> 00:55:35,487
[paul_tyler]: notes

1657
00:55:35,428 –> 00:55:35,650
[michelle_richter]: i will

1658
00:55:36,268 –> 00:55:41,537
[paul_tyler]: uh give us feedback you’re listening thank
you for sticking with us give us feedback

1659
00:55:41,818 –> 00:55:46,486
[paul_tyler]: give us questions give us guess suggestions
we definitely listen and

1660
00:55:47,156 –> 00:55:47,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1661
00:55:47,208 –> 00:55:52,302
[paul_tyler]: gettin next week for another great episode
of that annuity show thanks thanks everybody

1662
00:55:53,738 –> 00:55:54,024
[bruno_caron]: thank you

1663
00:55:53,936 –> 00:55:53,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2
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Episode 171: Helping Canadians Retire From Work, Not Life With Fraser Stark

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Can a mutual fund create new income potential for investors by sharing mortality risk? The answer is “yes”, starting in Canada. Fraser Stark, President of the Longevity Retirement Platform for Purpose Financial joins us to talk about his company’s novel product.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.retirewithlongevity.com/

https://www.purpose-unlimited.com/home

https://www.linkedin.com/in/fstark/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:00,780 –> 00:00:02,861
[paul_tyler]: yeah hi this is paul tyler

2
00:00:02,942 –> 00:00:03,226
[bruno_caron]: yeah

3
00:00:03,062 –> 00:00:07,569
[paul_tyler]: and welcome to another episode of that
annuity show and today

4
00:00:07,232 –> 00:00:08,012
[bruno_caron]: oh

5
00:00:08,250 –> 00:00:14,861
[paul_tyler]: we are talking about a very novel
solution for generating retirement and income in canada

6
00:00:15,743 –> 00:00:19,489
[paul_tyler]: okay so we’re goin t have a
lot of interesting interesting questions here today but

7
00:00:19,810 –> 00:00:20,351
[paul_tyler]: before i jump

8
00:00:20,222 –> 00:00:20,242
[bruno_caron]: m

9
00:00:20,451 –> 00:00:21,493
[paul_tyler]: in i want to introduce

10
00:00:21,332 –> 00:00:22,382
[bruno_caron]: oh

11
00:00:21,573 –> 00:00:25,599
[paul_tyler]: our audience to tessa raban marshall who’s
joining us as a host

12
00:00:25,412 –> 00:00:25,856
[bruno_caron]: oh

13
00:00:26,020 –> 00:00:27,162
[paul_tyler]: you know tis a can you tell

14
00:00:27,009 –> 00:00:27,191
[bruno_caron]: yeah

15
00:00:27,243 –> 00:00:29,166
[paul_tyler]: people just a little bit about

16
00:00:29,102 –> 00:00:29,324
[bruno_caron]: oh

17
00:00:29,567 –> 00:00:30,068
[paul_tyler]: yourself

18
00:00:31,378 –> 00:00:33,682
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: sure thanks paul so

19
00:00:34,020 –> 00:00:34,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

20
00:00:34,464 –> 00:00:38,570
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i have about twenty years experience in
the industry and i currently am working to

21
00:00:38,671 –> 00:00:44,712
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: manage the digital platforms and tools for
our retiring and our agents here at na

22
00:00:44,812 –> 00:00:44,994
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: sah

23
00:00:45,572 –> 00:00:45,857
[bruno_caron]: oh

24
00:00:46,150 –> 00:00:50,134
[paul_tyler]: yeah so anyway welcome thanks for thanks
for getting behind the mike this is great

25
00:00:50,514 –> 00:00:50,794
[paul_tyler]: bruno

26
00:00:51,368 –> 00:00:51,792
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

27
00:00:51,535 –> 00:00:54,658
[paul_tyler]: tell us what’s up and who did
you get for us to come on the

28
00:00:54,878 –> 00:00:56,126
[paul_tyler]: show today oh

29
00:00:56,317 –> 00:01:01,065
[bruno_caron]: sure it will be my my pleasure
to to introduce you to fraser stark who

30
00:01:01,125 –> 00:01:09,980
[bruno_caron]: is the president and of longevity retirement
platform at purpose here in here in toronto

31
00:01:10,160 –> 00:01:19,516
[bruno_caron]: ontario canada m fraser has a very
very interesting background obviously extremely focused on the

32
00:01:20,558 –> 00:01:28,571
[bruno_caron]: on the financial services but not just
on the on the financial services but never

33
00:01:29,012 –> 00:01:32,738
[bruno_caron]: we’re very very excited and very pleased
and fraser welcome

34
00:01:33,635 –> 00:01:34,922
[fraser_stark]: thanks for having me on it’s great
to be here

35
00:01:36,713 –> 00:01:44,760
[bruno_caron]: so you know you know my first
question is obviously is in terms of lifetime

36
00:01:44,820 –> 00:01:53,513
[bruno_caron]: income solutions you have academic major academic
bodies that have that i’ve supported this that

37
00:01:53,554 –> 00:02:00,666
[bruno_caron]: i’ve written about it many entrepreneurs including
myself as try to bring this type of

38
00:02:00,726 –> 00:02:04,063
[bruno_caron]: solution and you guys are the

39
00:02:04,058 –> 00:02:04,285
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

40
00:02:04,103 –> 00:02:07,088
[bruno_caron]: first ones to do it you know
over the entire world

41
00:02:08,232 –> 00:02:08,313
[paul_tyler]: no

42
00:02:08,270 –> 00:02:08,951
[bruno_caron]: how did you do it

43
00:02:09,068 –> 00:02:09,788
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

44
00:02:09,895 –> 00:02:10,197
[fraser_stark]: uh

45
00:02:10,013 –> 00:02:11,295
[bruno_caron]: that’s my that’s my question

46
00:02:10,964 –> 00:02:11,005
[fraser_stark]: uh

47
00:02:11,415 –> 00:02:12,717
[bruno_caron]: how how in this world

48
00:02:12,510 –> 00:02:13,710
[paul_tyler]: oh

49
00:02:13,298 –> 00:02:17,987
[bruno_caron]: you know were you able to successfully
launched this this venture

50
00:02:18,830 –> 00:02:19,230
[paul_tyler]: yeah maybe you

51
00:02:19,217 –> 00:02:19,378
[fraser_stark]: yeah

52
00:02:19,250 –> 00:02:22,896
[paul_tyler]: just tell maybe you could phrase just
tell us what it is that would be

53
00:02:22,956 –> 00:02:23,657
[paul_tyler]: great and then

54
00:02:24,155 –> 00:02:25,016
[fraser_stark]: yeah why don’t

55
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[paul_tyler]: how

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[fraser_stark]: i

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[paul_tyler]: do

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[fraser_stark]: start

59
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[paul_tyler]: you

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[fraser_stark]: with

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[paul_tyler]: do

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[fraser_stark]: what

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[paul_tyler]: it

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[fraser_stark]: it is and then and then how
we did it that that

65
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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[fraser_stark]: sounds that sounds excellent

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: so the longevity pension fund is the
world’s first longevity risk pulling in a mutual

69
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[fraser_stark]: fund this is not a new concept
this idea of a variable lifetime income is

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[fraser_stark]: not new you know it’s existed in
europe as tantins for many years canada has

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[fraser_stark]: been experimenting this with this for decades
australia

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: more recently there’s lots of iterations of
it but we found a way to offer

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[fraser_stark]: investors

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: income for life in a way that
their assets are still invested in the market

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[fraser_stark]: and they’re benefiting from market returns and
yet their risk pooling with the other investors

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[fraser_stark]: so we think it’s a

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: great

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: product that fits along it annuities as
part of

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: the possible offering for someone in retirement

85
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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[fraser_stark]: looking to solve

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: that nastiest hardest problem in finance which
is how do you decumulate assets when there’s

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[fraser_stark]: so much uncertainty including most notable

90
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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[fraser_stark]: that idea that

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[fraser_stark]: there’s a huge range of possibilities for
how long you need the assets to last

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[fraser_stark]: for now the way we did that
as an asset manager is we we looked

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[fraser_stark]: at the mutual fund structure in canada
it’s a little bit different than the u

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[fraser_stark]: s but by and law it’s quite
similar and we said how would you have

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[fraser_stark]: to tweak a mutual fund to imbed
longevity risk pulling into this structure and that’s

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[fraser_stark]: exactly what we did in launch last
june

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[paul_tyler]: so you’re not an insurance company correct

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[fraser_stark]: correct that’s important

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[paul_tyler]: okay but you’re

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[paul_tyler]: pulling mortality

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: and what is different again we have
a lot of listeners in the us what’s

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[paul_tyler]: the difference between what you’re doing and
say oh i’ve heard it before paul is

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[paul_tyler]: tar date fund

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[fraser_stark]: yeah of course know a target they
fund is a great product for mixing

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: the risk and return profile of an
investor as they move through different

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: life stages towards retirement and so target
date fund serve that purpose very effectively what

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[fraser_stark]: they don’t do though is once someone
enters retirement they don’t provide risk pooling that

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[fraser_stark]: idea that you know we like to
say our assets are worth more to us

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[fraser_stark]: than a portion of our that’s are
worth more to us while while we’re alive

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[fraser_stark]: than after we passed away and so
what or what our product inherently does it

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[fraser_stark]: creates a trade off for people between
the estate for whatever assets are put into

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[fraser_stark]: this fund and optimizing for sustainable income
while you’re alive so a target day fund

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[fraser_stark]: is a great product and in fact
i think an investor might very well use

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[fraser_stark]: target date funds and then at retirement
put money into the longevity pension fund to

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[fraser_stark]: secure against that risk that

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: they end up being someone who lives
to be a hundred and four or ninety

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[fraser_stark]: six or a hundred and ten we
just don’t know and effectively investors retires investing

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[fraser_stark]: who hold to balance portfolio almost no
matter what the construction

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:05:06,230 –> 00:05:12,199
[fraser_stark]: is in some ways they’re self insured
against their own longevity risk that idea living

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[fraser_stark]: a long life and we’ve given them
away

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: to you know effectively get a type
of pension you know it’s not a registered

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[fraser_stark]: pension in canada but we use word
pension and the title because it is that

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[fraser_stark]: income for life and all of our
actuarial modeling shows that while it’s very blind

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[fraser_stark]: can go up or down with market
conditions and the experienced mortality of the investor

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[fraser_stark]: pool it will always pay and come
for life and so people can rest assured

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[fraser_stark]: that they’re spending more now more income
from this the application to this fund and

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[fraser_stark]: yet there’s no chance that it runs
out of money which is a real possibility

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[fraser_stark]: of someone you know starts with a
million dollars and spends you know seventy thousand

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[fraser_stark]: dollars

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: a year there’s a chance that if
you live into your nineties or past a

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[fraser_stark]: hundred you could run it

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[paul_tyler]: a

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[bruno_caron]: that’s great can you talk a little
bit about that that structure how is it

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[bruno_caron]: how does it work when you know
discuss maybe a few a few scenarios a

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[bruno_caron]: few triggers

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[fraser_stark]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: if i put in as i said
you know some you know some funds we

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[bruno_caron]: all agree that you know it’s not
there’s no one size fits all solution but

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[bruno_caron]: part of any any retires funds say
a hundred thousand dollars at age sixty five

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[bruno_caron]: what happens under various know scenarios

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[fraser_stark]: ah so

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[paul_tyler]: yea

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[fraser_stark]: essentially the key difference between this fund
most other income funds or or balanced funds

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[fraser_stark]: is that it’s redeemed not for its
nave but rather for the last year of

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[fraser_stark]: it now or unpaid capital so unpaid
capital is the amount put in at sixty

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[fraser_stark]: five lasts the distributions

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

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[fraser_stark]: received today and so you know an
investor who puts in a hundred thousand dollars

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[fraser_stark]: as you said bruno and then let’s
say over three years they received twenty thousand

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[fraser_stark]: back

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: and then if they either passed away
or voluntarily just say i’d like to redeem

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[fraser_stark]: these units and that’s a key to
that key benefit to this fund is the

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[fraser_stark]: redeemability they would get back eighty

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: thousand dollars right not let’s just say
the nave had gone from a hundred thousand

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[fraser_stark]: and because it’s paying out income the
nave is now at ninety three they wouldn’t

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[fraser_stark]: get ninety three they get eighty and
the thirteen thousand difference between it three and

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[fraser_stark]: eighty that’s the longevity credits that flow
in and stay in for the benefit of

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[fraser_stark]: the remaining members of their cohort and
we we construct our cohorts on three birth

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[fraser_stark]: years so our oldest cohort

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: that we have investors from is nineteen
forty five to forty seven in cohort one

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[fraser_stark]: court two is nineteen forty eight to
fifty and so on through people that are

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[fraser_stark]: sixty five today who i believe are
born in nineteen fifty seven and every three

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[fraser_stark]: years we add a new cohort as
people in another block of three birth years

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[fraser_stark]: start turning

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: sixty five but that’s the that’s the
risk pulling right so unlike an annuity which

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[fraser_stark]: sits on an insurance company’s balance heat
and they basically say we’ll take we’ll take

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[fraser_stark]: this risk we’ll take your personal longevity
risk and we’ll take the market risk and

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[fraser_stark]: we’ll guarantee you and there’s obviously a
huge variety of annuity structures can’t address them

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[fraser_stark]: all today but under that structure the
insurance company is accepting both market risk and

185
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[fraser_stark]: longevity risk with the longevity pension fund
we as an asset manager are taking on

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[fraser_stark]: neither what’s happening is the longevity risk
of being pooled among the people the investors

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[fraser_stark]: in the pool based on that that
birth year set and the market risk stays

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[fraser_stark]: with them we’ve got portfolio construction that’s
very conservative designed suitable for someone in retirement

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[fraser_stark]: but the market risk stays with them
which means it’s variable it also means they

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[fraser_stark]: benefit from the market risk premium just
the fact market returns are expected to be

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[fraser_stark]: higher than the risk free interest rates
as i said they pull that mortality risk

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[fraser_stark]: so

193
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: it’s a great product for someone who
says i’m comfortable with some very ability in

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[fraser_stark]: my payments in return for more flexibility
a higher starting rate and the expectation and

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[fraser_stark]: design that this should rise over time
so we’ve done a ton of modeling we

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[fraser_stark]: work with life works actuarial team on
the modeling and under a wide range of

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[fraser_stark]: economic scenarios you can see that in
most cases but not all cases and that’s

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[fraser_stark]: important this fund raises its distributions over
time but

200
00:09:21,270 –> 00:09:21,990
[paul_tyler]: yeah

201
00:09:21,403 –> 00:09:25,590
[fraser_stark]: you know an investor in some of
the downside scenarios an investor who’s in a

202
00:09:25,650 –> 00:09:28,995
[fraser_stark]: traditional balance portfolio they’re going to see
that portfolio decline as well

203
00:09:29,010 –> 00:09:29,173
[paul_tyler]: ye

204
00:09:29,055 –> 00:09:33,202
[fraser_stark]: and they’re prbably gonna have to make
some spending reductions and a very similar thing

205
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[fraser_stark]: is likely

206
00:09:33,902 –> 00:09:34,163
[bruno_caron]: oh

207
00:09:34,024 –> 00:09:36,953
[fraser_stark]: to happen with our after in in
a downside economic scenario

208
00:09:38,341 –> 00:09:42,307
[paul_tyler]: i found the cohort concept really interesting
i read the the footnotes

209
00:09:42,325 –> 00:09:44,185
[fraser_stark]: oh

210
00:09:43,409 –> 00:09:43,549
[paul_tyler]: you’re

211
00:09:43,442 –> 00:09:43,524
[bruno_caron]: ye

212
00:09:43,569 –> 00:09:44,010
[paul_tyler]: marketing for

213
00:09:43,919 –> 00:09:44,040
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: eh

214
00:09:44,070 –> 00:09:45,893
[paul_tyler]: sure you know ts laughing

215
00:09:45,911 –> 00:09:45,932
[bruno_caron]: m

216
00:09:45,973 –> 00:09:49,639
[paul_tyler]: because this is what we live for
the foot notes in these products

217
00:09:49,622 –> 00:09:49,642
[bruno_caron]: m

218
00:09:50,094 –> 00:09:50,235
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

219
00:09:50,200 –> 00:09:50,341
[paul_tyler]: um

220
00:09:50,704 –> 00:09:50,725
[fraser_stark]: m

221
00:09:50,901 –> 00:09:51,022
[paul_tyler]: so

222
00:09:51,521 –> 00:09:51,712
[bruno_caron]: h m

223
00:09:51,723 –> 00:09:53,145
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m born between

224
00:09:52,991 –> 00:09:53,012
[bruno_caron]: m

225
00:09:53,546 –> 00:09:56,110
[paul_tyler]: you know this year and that year
um

226
00:09:56,111 –> 00:09:56,132
[bruno_caron]: m

227
00:09:56,491 –> 00:10:01,962
[paul_tyler]: but it’s now twenty twenty seven is
there any point at which i can and

228
00:10:02,772 –> 00:10:03,622
[paul_tyler]: join that cohort

229
00:10:05,596 –> 00:10:09,823
[fraser_stark]: any investor is eligible to invest in
the fund until their eightieth birthday the day

230
00:10:09,863 –> 00:10:10,143
[fraser_stark]: you turn

231
00:10:10,141 –> 00:10:10,366
[paul_tyler]: okay

232
00:10:10,223 –> 00:10:15,773
[fraser_stark]: at you’re no longer eligible and that’s
because of the evolving nature of the longevity

233
00:10:16,113 –> 00:10:21,923
[fraser_stark]: expectations and visibility into it we didn’t
want a situation where someone could join a

234
00:10:21,983 –> 00:10:25,950
[fraser_stark]: cohort at ninety one knowing that they’re
in good health many of the people that

235
00:10:26,390 –> 00:10:26,871
[fraser_stark]: committed to

236
00:10:26,902 –> 00:10:27,084
[paul_tyler]: yeah

237
00:10:26,931 –> 00:10:31,439
[fraser_stark]: that cohort much earlier perhaps are now
in in different states of health and life

238
00:10:31,479 –> 00:10:38,090
[fraser_stark]: expectancy so anyone up to the day
before they turn eighty is eligible you know

239
00:10:38,150 –> 00:10:43,839
[fraser_stark]: most people are investing much earlier in
there late sixties we also have an accumulation

240
00:10:43,940 –> 00:10:47,265
[fraser_stark]: class of this fund so until some
one sixty five they can invest in the

241
00:10:47,305 –> 00:10:52,013
[fraser_stark]: fund the risk pooling doesn’t yet apply
so it is redeemable at nave making it

242
00:10:52,073 –> 00:10:56,943
[fraser_stark]: behave much more a traditional balance fund
it doesn’t pay income it’s going to grow

243
00:10:57,003 –> 00:10:59,288
[fraser_stark]: the assets with market returns but

244
00:10:59,301 –> 00:10:59,361
[paul_tyler]: so

245
00:10:59,729 –> 00:11:00,110
[fraser_stark]: people are

246
00:11:00,166 –> 00:11:00,307
[paul_tyler]: yeah

247
00:11:00,732 –> 00:11:01,293
[fraser_stark]: sorry ill go ahead

248
00:11:01,601 –> 00:11:05,127
[paul_tyler]: oh no i’m just curious so so
it’s these are almost like bottles

249
00:11:05,162 –> 00:11:05,383
[bruno_caron]: oh

250
00:11:05,187 –> 00:11:06,629
[paul_tyler]: of wine you’re collecting

251
00:11:06,505 –> 00:11:06,928
[fraser_stark]: uh

252
00:11:06,850 –> 00:11:07,030
[paul_tyler]: right

253
00:11:06,932 –> 00:11:08,942
[bruno_caron]: uh

254
00:11:06,982 –> 00:11:07,598
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

255
00:11:07,110 –> 00:11:07,410
[paul_tyler]: except you

256
00:11:07,554 –> 00:11:07,615
[fraser_stark]: uh

257
00:11:07,711 –> 00:11:09,474
[paul_tyler]: you’re the flask

258
00:11:09,153 –> 00:11:09,356
[bruno_caron]: okay

259
00:11:09,497 –> 00:11:09,538
[fraser_stark]: we

260
00:11:09,574 –> 00:11:09,654
[paul_tyler]: is

261
00:11:09,638 –> 00:11:09,719
[fraser_stark]: get

262
00:11:09,734 –> 00:11:09,935
[paul_tyler]: not

263
00:11:09,779 –> 00:11:10,947
[fraser_stark]: better as we age that’s right

264
00:11:11,197 –> 00:11:11,317
[paul_tyler]: yeah

265
00:11:11,273 –> 00:11:11,313
[bruno_caron]: m

266
00:11:11,357 –> 00:11:15,464
[paul_tyler]: the vetaras we age but is there
so much transparency

267
00:11:15,071 –> 00:11:15,092
[bruno_caron]: m

268
00:11:15,544 –> 00:11:19,350
[paul_tyler]: that i could if i m going
into that fun i could say go my

269
00:11:19,451 –> 00:11:23,798
[paul_tyler]: group fraser got a lot of sick
people this is a good deal i’m healthy

270
00:11:24,098 –> 00:11:25,461
[paul_tyler]: i run marathon and

271
00:11:25,495 –> 00:11:25,740
[fraser_stark]: uh

272
00:11:25,622 –> 00:11:25,824
[bruno_caron]: oh

273
00:11:25,904 –> 00:11:26,395
[fraser_stark]: huh

274
00:11:26,823 –> 00:11:31,370
[paul_tyler]: i think i’m gonna outlast the that
that group are is that something you can

275
00:11:31,971 –> 00:11:36,459
[paul_tyler]: you know policy holders are wrong terminology
of investors will investors

276
00:11:36,435 –> 00:11:36,557
[fraser_stark]: yeah

277
00:11:36,499 –> 00:11:37,183
[paul_tyler]: be able to do that

278
00:11:38,625 –> 00:11:41,730
[fraser_stark]: well they won’t know who the other
people in the pool are and that’s important

279
00:11:41,831 –> 00:11:47,821
[fraser_stark]: for privacy reasons you know if you
think of the tontine structure much much maligned

280
00:11:49,383 –> 00:11:52,769
[fraser_stark]: there’s this idea i think the simpsons
popularized this a number of years ago this

281
00:11:52,829 –> 00:11:54,692
[fraser_stark]: idea of incentive to

282
00:11:54,662 –> 00:11:54,884
[bruno_caron]: yeah

283
00:11:54,772 –> 00:11:56,275
[fraser_stark]: take out your fellow members

284
00:11:56,237 –> 00:11:56,258
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

285
00:11:56,335 –> 00:12:00,181
[fraser_stark]: and i mean that’s that sort of
a comical approach but but for obvious reasons

286
00:12:00,212 –> 00:12:00,232
[bruno_caron]: m

287
00:12:00,482 –> 00:12:05,370
[fraser_stark]: the investors in the fund are not
publicly that’s not public to two investors you

288
00:12:05,590 –> 00:12:10,458
[fraser_stark]: asked about transparency we are fully transparent
with how the portfolio is invested how many

289
00:12:10,719 –> 00:12:17,470
[fraser_stark]: investors are in someone’s cohort you know
we track and annually issue a report you

290
00:12:17,510 –> 00:12:17,851
[fraser_stark]: know we’re not

291
00:12:17,798 –> 00:12:18,104
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

292
00:12:17,911 –> 00:12:21,457
[fraser_stark]: required to as a mutual fund but
we want to take on as much of

293
00:12:22,158 –> 00:12:25,864
[fraser_stark]: the apparatus of a pension as possible
and so we’re about to publish an annual

294
00:12:25,924 –> 00:12:31,033
[fraser_stark]: report well give the unit holders the
investors a great deal of information but what’s

295
00:12:31,073 –> 00:12:35,620
[fraser_stark]: going on paul i think what you’re
asking about though is this idea of adverse

296
00:12:35,660 –> 00:12:41,007
[fraser_stark]: selection or selection bias which is a
really interest ing concept here any time you’ve

297
00:12:41,047 –> 00:12:45,291
[fraser_stark]: got a group of people that are
opting into something they may behave somewhat differently

298
00:12:45,791 –> 00:12:49,995
[fraser_stark]: than a group of people that were
selected at random and so there’s a couple

299
00:12:50,056 –> 00:12:54,042
[fraser_stark]: of ways that can that can play
out one is is it only the joggers

300
00:12:54,683 –> 00:12:55,164
[fraser_stark]: so to speak

301
00:12:55,058 –> 00:12:55,281
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

302
00:12:55,244 –> 00:12:55,885
[fraser_stark]: who who joined

303
00:12:55,704 –> 00:12:56,190
[paul_tyler]: right

304
00:12:55,925 –> 00:12:56,787
[fraser_stark]: this or people who know

305
00:12:56,670 –> 00:12:56,992
[paul_tyler]: oh

306
00:12:56,867 –> 00:12:57,568
[fraser_stark]: that their parents

307
00:12:57,338 –> 00:12:58,568
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

308
00:12:58,750 –> 00:12:59,251
[fraser_stark]: both lived

309
00:12:59,643 –> 00:12:59,663
[bruno_caron]: m

310
00:13:00,212 –> 00:13:01,435
[fraser_stark]: well into their nineties for exampl

311
00:13:01,650 –> 00:13:01,972
[paul_tyler]: oh

312
00:13:02,035 –> 00:13:05,099
[fraser_stark]: um that’s one type of selection bias
we are assuming we’ll see some degree of

313
00:13:05,139 –> 00:13:11,446
[fraser_stark]: that we’ve done a lot of research
into the degree to which people people’s perceptions

314
00:13:11,527 –> 00:13:15,954
[fraser_stark]: of their own longevity aligned to what
actually plays out and the answer is it’s

315
00:13:16,034 –> 00:13:21,784
[fraser_stark]: neither it’s neither perfectly true nor perfectly
false it falls in between that people have

316
00:13:21,864 –> 00:13:27,854
[fraser_stark]: some of of a sense another type
of adverse selection you know for people that

317
00:13:27,894 –> 00:13:32,381
[fraser_stark]: want to want to play money ball
here with the fund is around birth years

318
00:13:32,682 –> 00:13:33,563
[fraser_stark]: right and so someone

319
00:13:33,580 –> 00:13:33,764
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: kick

320
00:13:33,603 –> 00:13:40,071
[fraser_stark]: who was born in december nineteen forty
seven is a year and a half younger

321
00:13:40,112 –> 00:13:44,439
[fraser_stark]: than the average and three years younger
than someone that was joran born on january

322
00:13:44,519 –> 00:13:49,168
[fraser_stark]: first nineteen forty five and so that’s
something we are able to watch for early

323
00:13:49,288 –> 00:13:54,701
[fraser_stark]: and we’re not yet seeing any clustering
of investors by birth year we suspected we

324
00:13:54,842 –> 00:13:58,749
[fraser_stark]: might see people skewing to the younger
side it’s not the average

325
00:13:58,538 –> 00:13:58,798
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

326
00:13:59,069 –> 00:14:03,717
[fraser_stark]: of our investors falls squarely on that
mid point of the cohorts birth range so

327
00:14:04,518 –> 00:14:09,035
[fraser_stark]: it will be a long time for
this fun before we have visibility in is

328
00:14:09,095 –> 00:14:14,332
[fraser_stark]: there adverse selection happening on that health
or longevity we’ve assumed there will be some

329
00:14:14,412 –> 00:14:19,200
[fraser_stark]: it’s modeled in and we’ve also done
a lot of pressure testing of our model

330
00:14:19,260 –> 00:14:22,946
[fraser_stark]: to say what if we’re off by
a year whatever by two years whatever were

331
00:14:22,986 –> 00:14:23,948
[fraser_stark]: off by four years

332
00:14:24,188 –> 00:14:24,430
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

333
00:14:24,429 –> 00:14:32,121
[fraser_stark]: an a four year extension of mortality
on a group of thousands of retired investors

334
00:14:32,362 –> 00:14:36,333
[fraser_stark]: is you know that is a real
test and what it shows is the fund

335
00:14:36,608 –> 00:14:37,328
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

336
00:14:36,835 –> 00:14:42,369
[fraser_stark]: still accomplishes its goal it’s still pays
income for life it still rises but of

337
00:14:42,430 –> 00:14:48,059
[fraser_stark]: course by definition it would rise less
steeply in the scenario where they live longer

338
00:14:48,099 –> 00:14:50,884
[fraser_stark]: and that’s just because there’s more payments
to make through the life of the fund

339
00:14:52,912 –> 00:14:59,203
[bruno_caron]: that’s a that’s a very interesting um
segu to you the strategy of the structure

340
00:14:59,764 –> 00:15:04,231
[bruno_caron]: i mean i think it starts at
a fairly low level as you mention the

341
00:15:04,592 –> 00:15:11,624
[bruno_caron]: mortality and the investment risk is on
the the participants shoulders but at the same

342
00:15:11,684 –> 00:15:17,333
[bruno_caron]: time you do you do structure it
in a way that payments go up over

343
00:15:17,413 –> 00:15:22,462
[bruno_caron]: time you could have structure in in
a different way can you talk a little

344
00:15:22,502 –> 00:15:25,647
[bruno_caron]: bit about that that strategy and the
mentality behind

345
00:15:25,440 –> 00:15:25,705
[paul_tyler]: oh

346
00:15:25,747 –> 00:15:29,041
[bruno_caron]: that that that structure yeah

347
00:15:28,865 –> 00:15:33,894
[fraser_stark]: yeah we really wanted to be able
to tell investors that while it’s variable and

348
00:15:33,954 –> 00:15:38,702
[fraser_stark]: it’s important that investors know that right
to education is a key element here to

349
00:15:38,862 –> 00:15:39,223
[fraser_stark]: selling

350
00:15:39,000 –> 00:15:39,262
[paul_tyler]: oh

351
00:15:39,643 –> 00:15:44,431
[fraser_stark]: and marketing this and responsibly um but
we wanted it to rise over time and

352
00:15:44,692 –> 00:15:49,901
[fraser_stark]: what we’ve created is a fun that
in our modeled scenarios i believe the average

353
00:15:49,941 –> 00:15:53,126
[fraser_stark]: is about five or five and a
half percent market return with with a lot

354
00:15:53,206 –> 00:15:59,236
[fraser_stark]: of annual deviation from that and in
the average scenario of these two thousand that

355
00:15:59,276 –> 00:16:05,026
[fraser_stark]: we’ve that we’ve modeled the fund increases
its distributions on a its two per cent

356
00:16:05,086 –> 00:16:09,533
[fraser_stark]: a year which right now doesn’t sound
a lot like inflation levels but if we

357
00:16:09,512 –> 00:16:09,754
[bruno_caron]: uh

358
00:16:09,613 –> 00:16:10,575
[fraser_stark]: rewind six months

359
00:16:10,421 –> 00:16:10,442
[bruno_caron]: h

360
00:16:10,615 –> 00:16:14,041
[fraser_stark]: and think about long term targets at
central banks at what it means is this

361
00:16:14,121 –> 00:16:14,341
[fraser_stark]: fund

362
00:16:14,160 –> 00:16:14,262
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

363
00:16:14,421 –> 00:16:19,310
[fraser_stark]: is designed to keep its payment approximately
with long term targets is not index the

364
00:16:19,350 –> 00:16:23,717
[fraser_stark]: way you can you can formally and
firmly index and annuity but it is it

365
00:16:23,777 –> 00:16:26,121
[fraser_stark]: is designed to raise payments with

366
00:16:26,080 –> 00:16:26,181
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

367
00:16:26,181 –> 00:16:31,830
[fraser_stark]: that with inflation um and with market
returns over time you know when we set

368
00:16:31,931 –> 00:16:36,338
[fraser_stark]: the initial distribution level for the fund
so the retirement age cohort started at six

369
00:16:36,438 –> 00:16:41,867
[fraser_stark]: point one five percent cohort for people
born nineteen fifty four to fifty six when

370
00:16:41,907 –> 00:16:43,709
[fraser_stark]: we launched was people about sixty

371
00:16:43,652 –> 00:16:43,672
[bruno_caron]: m

372
00:16:43,749 –> 00:16:44,931
[fraser_stark]: five to sixty seven years old

373
00:16:44,972 –> 00:16:45,194
[bruno_caron]: oh

374
00:16:45,171 –> 00:16:49,116
[fraser_stark]: we started that at six point one
five per cent now one of the decisions

375
00:16:49,357 –> 00:16:52,923
[fraser_stark]: we had to make at launch was
do we start with a number like that

376
00:16:52,963 –> 00:16:54,625
[fraser_stark]: that’s lower and expected to rise

377
00:16:54,968 –> 00:16:55,112
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

378
00:16:55,427 –> 00:16:59,193
[fraser_stark]: and be transparent about that in the
funds perspective or do we start with a

379
00:16:59,213 –> 00:17:04,000
[fraser_stark]: number that’s higher it sort of has
an equal chance of increasing or decreasing as

380
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:10,410
[fraser_stark]: the fun moves forward and we deliberately
chose former to start lower what that meant

381
00:17:10,550 –> 00:17:14,096
[fraser_stark]: is that when we think about this
like a like a defined benefit pension and

382
00:17:14,136 –> 00:17:19,165
[fraser_stark]: we think about the funding level the
fund started with approximately twenty percent over funding

383
00:17:19,625 –> 00:17:23,211
[fraser_stark]: so it was in a twenty percent
over funded position if you compared you know

384
00:17:23,592 –> 00:17:26,937
[fraser_stark]: the assets in the fund with the
present value of all

385
00:17:26,903 –> 00:17:27,085
[bruno_caron]: yeah

386
00:17:26,978 –> 00:17:31,144
[fraser_stark]: future liabilities and you know it’s not
been the year that any of us in

387
00:17:31,545 –> 00:17:35,231
[fraser_stark]: in financial markets wanted to see but
i think it’s been a year that’s really

388
00:17:35,271 –> 00:17:40,340
[fraser_stark]: validated that strategy because going into twenty
twenty three were in the process with our

389
00:17:40,380 –> 00:17:44,106
[fraser_stark]: annual report of defining what are the
distribution rates and i think a lot of

390
00:17:44,146 –> 00:17:48,033
[fraser_stark]: people are expecting that that we may
have to cut those rates we said it

391
00:17:48,053 –> 00:17:51,679
[fraser_stark]: was a variable fund and in years
when markets don’t do well um you know

392
00:17:51,699 –> 00:17:54,503
[fraser_stark]: there will be a decrease because we
deliberately

393
00:17:54,518 –> 00:17:55,268
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

394
00:17:54,543 –> 00:17:59,632
[fraser_stark]: went in with that buffer we’ve used
a good deal of that buffer across the

395
00:18:00,013 –> 00:18:06,083
[fraser_stark]: the five cohorts differs by cohorts but
all cohorts are going to be holding their

396
00:18:06,123 –> 00:18:10,951
[fraser_stark]: distribution level steady which i think is
really powerful to an investor who who’s put

397
00:18:11,031 –> 00:18:15,178
[fraser_stark]: money into this fund knowing the goal
is to create certainty so they can spend

398
00:18:15,218 –> 00:18:19,765
[fraser_stark]: with confidence in retirement and even though
they acknowledge it’s not an annuity with guaranteed

399
00:18:19,845 –> 00:18:25,271
[fraser_stark]: floor and balance sheet of a of
a major corporation backing it it’s really powerful

400
00:18:25,311 –> 00:18:28,694
[fraser_stark]: that it’s been able to hold so
that’s some of our thinking around distribution levels

401
00:18:29,938 –> 00:18:33,744
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hey frinds are i going a jump
in and ask you how are you marketing

402
00:18:33,785 –> 00:18:37,891
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: this and selling this how are you
finding these cohorts are these members investors through

403
00:18:37,951 –> 00:18:41,217
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: agents direct online tell us a little
bit about the marketing

404
00:18:42,165 –> 00:18:45,410
[fraser_stark]: it’s it’s a great question this is
an investment product

405
00:18:45,212 –> 00:18:45,374
[bruno_caron]: ye

406
00:18:45,490 –> 00:18:46,332
[fraser_stark]: and so it’s sold

407
00:18:46,562 –> 00:18:46,787
[bruno_caron]: oh

408
00:18:47,033 –> 00:18:48,836
[fraser_stark]: where people buy other mutual funds

409
00:18:49,472 –> 00:18:50,132
[bruno_caron]: yeah

410
00:18:49,519 –> 00:18:49,704
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

411
00:18:49,617 –> 00:18:51,761
[fraser_stark]: the accounts that they might use to
buy stocks r t

412
00:18:52,022 –> 00:18:52,622
[bruno_caron]: yeah

413
00:18:52,081 –> 00:18:55,169
[fraser_stark]: f so it’s sold through investment dealers
canada the funds available

414
00:18:54,842 –> 00:18:55,063
[bruno_caron]: oh

415
00:18:55,229 –> 00:19:00,351
[fraser_stark]: to any canadian um you know some
dealers have put this fund

416
00:19:00,242 –> 00:19:00,484
[bruno_caron]: oh

417
00:19:00,451 –> 00:19:03,916
[fraser_stark]: on their shelf and others haven’t you
know one of the surprises we’ve seen is

418
00:19:04,497 –> 00:19:10,047
[fraser_stark]: um you it’s been warmly accepted by
people who think a lot about retirement and

419
00:19:10,067 –> 00:19:12,851
[fraser_stark]: the challenges of it banks have taken
you so far

420
00:19:12,752 –> 00:19:13,016
[bruno_caron]: oh

421
00:19:12,992 –> 00:19:17,599
[fraser_stark]: one of two past banks and other
wealth dealers some have approved some have not

422
00:19:17,880 –> 00:19:22,067
[fraser_stark]: know it’s a pretty novel concept this
idea of a fund that doesn’t redeem a

423
00:19:22,107 –> 00:19:23,830
[fraser_stark]: nave which you know

424
00:19:24,311 –> 00:19:24,332
[bruno_caron]: m

425
00:19:24,451 –> 00:19:28,517
[fraser_stark]: my assets aren’t all mine you know
it’s an interesting concept so there’s some of

426
00:19:28,558 –> 00:19:34,027
[fraser_stark]: that you know the decisioning that goes
on around how much come to pay and

427
00:19:34,107 –> 00:19:39,095
[fraser_stark]: the the income policy that we’ve sat
working with life works um you know i

428
00:19:39,155 –> 00:19:41,740
[fraser_stark]: think that some some are still getting
their head around that

429
00:19:41,822 –> 00:19:42,482
[bruno_caron]: oh

430
00:19:42,240 –> 00:19:45,967
[fraser_stark]: but we’ve got we do direct marketing
to investors and so there is a direct

431
00:19:46,027 –> 00:19:47,890
[fraser_stark]: to investor marketing effort

432
00:19:47,717 –> 00:19:47,738
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

433
00:19:47,930 –> 00:19:48,911
[fraser_stark]: here where we’ve

434
00:19:48,891 –> 00:19:49,358
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

435
00:19:48,972 –> 00:19:54,741
[fraser_stark]: got digital adds t v radio raising
awareness for the product driving education a lot

436
00:19:54,781 –> 00:19:58,247
[fraser_stark]: of our investors are do it yourself
the man they’re buying this through an online

437
00:19:58,487 –> 00:19:59,709
[fraser_stark]: account it’s sold

438
00:19:59,558 –> 00:19:59,741
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

439
00:19:59,750 –> 00:20:03,396
[fraser_stark]: as a mutual fund it it’s not
available as an e t f and that’s

440
00:20:03,556 –> 00:20:08,424
[fraser_stark]: because it’s not designed to be traded
the way you can easily buy and sell

441
00:20:08,484 –> 00:20:12,290
[fraser_stark]: an it’s it’s more of a product
that though though an investment

442
00:20:12,317 –> 00:20:12,338
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

443
00:20:12,351 –> 00:20:15,876
[fraser_stark]: product is meant to be bought and
held for years even though you’ve got the

444
00:20:15,916 –> 00:20:21,167
[fraser_stark]: ability to redeem it days weeks months
later for our investors in the d umulation

445
00:20:21,227 –> 00:20:26,127
[fraser_stark]: class pill sixty five its it’s better
to not so it’s both through investors directly

446
00:20:26,327 –> 00:20:31,966
[fraser_stark]: it’s through their wealth advisors and we’re
seeing growing adoption by investment advisors in canada

447
00:20:32,566 –> 00:20:36,190
[fraser_stark]: and then finally it’s now available as
part of workplace programs you know so any

448
00:20:36,270 –> 00:20:42,536
[fraser_stark]: company that’s running a d c and
defined contribution pension plan where the employes at

449
00:20:42,576 –> 00:20:47,985
[fraser_stark]: retirement can can choose you know different
options life works has added this to their

450
00:20:48,046 –> 00:20:53,755
[fraser_stark]: platform on the platform side and consulting
side and so plan sponsors companies ing canada

451
00:20:53,815 –> 00:20:58,603
[fraser_stark]: that run their program through life works
are able to to turn this on and

452
00:20:58,643 –> 00:21:01,268
[fraser_stark]: so we’re now that that went live
last month and we’re now in

453
00:21:01,260 –> 00:21:01,466
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

454
00:21:01,308 –> 00:21:05,655
[fraser_stark]: discussion with plan sponsors who know they
need to understand the fund of course and

455
00:21:05,715 –> 00:21:09,581
[fraser_stark]: what it can mean for their employes
but what a phenomenal way for a company

456
00:21:09,662 –> 00:21:14,169
[fraser_stark]: to show that they care about their
employes outcome even after they’re retired is not

457
00:21:14,229 –> 00:21:14,610
[fraser_stark]: just saying

458
00:21:14,591 –> 00:21:14,612
[bruno_caron]: m

459
00:21:14,650 –> 00:21:17,716
[fraser_stark]: hey you worked with us for twenty
five years you’ve saved up a lot money

460
00:21:17,856 –> 00:21:20,183
[fraser_stark]: you know here it is let us
know where you want to transfer it and

461
00:21:20,585 –> 00:21:23,093
[fraser_stark]: good block figuring out how much to
draw each year its

462
00:21:23,098 –> 00:21:23,240
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

463
00:21:24,175 –> 00:21:28,242
[fraser_stark]: you know you can stay in our
plan and you can have income for life

464
00:21:28,503 –> 00:21:28,843
[fraser_stark]: in a non

465
00:21:28,742 –> 00:21:28,843
[paul_tyler]: ah

466
00:21:28,883 –> 00:21:29,885
[fraser_stark]: guaranteed way way that’s

467
00:21:29,850 –> 00:21:30,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

468
00:21:29,925 –> 00:21:33,050
[fraser_stark]: variable but what what that does that’s
so nice is

469
00:21:33,000 –> 00:21:33,304
[paul_tyler]: oh

470
00:21:33,110 –> 00:21:38,260
[fraser_stark]: it allows that income for life without
the financial infant share responsibility on the corporate

471
00:21:38,280 –> 00:21:43,069
[fraser_stark]: balance set which of course dvpensions have
put put on over the years and is

472
00:21:43,289 –> 00:21:45,313
[fraser_stark]: the main reason why most companies are
moving away

473
00:21:45,209 –> 00:21:45,411
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: is it

474
00:21:46,781 –> 00:21:47,302
[paul_tyler]: in phrase

475
00:21:47,038 –> 00:21:47,321
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you

476
00:21:47,402 –> 00:21:52,470
[paul_tyler]: you got a real interesting background and
because you just came from facebook you worked

477
00:21:52,791 –> 00:22:00,747
[paul_tyler]: with an influence of what lessons did
you learn there that you’re plying into this

478
00:22:00,767 –> 00:22:01,108
[paul_tyler]: space

479
00:22:02,435 –> 00:22:02,595
[fraser_stark]: yeah

480
00:22:02,469 –> 00:22:02,490
[paul_tyler]: m

481
00:22:03,276 –> 00:22:05,440
[fraser_stark]: you know the other part of my
career i started a bann

482
00:22:05,252 –> 00:22:05,374
[bruno_caron]: ye

483
00:22:05,520 –> 00:22:10,007
[fraser_stark]: company as a consultant and my clients
were retail banks in both canada and the

484
00:22:10,067 –> 00:22:12,511
[fraser_stark]: us wealth management

485
00:22:12,480 –> 00:22:13,920
[paul_tyler]: oh

486
00:22:12,551 –> 00:22:18,061
[fraser_stark]: firms as well as one of the
largest canadian pensions and so i’ve worked in

487
00:22:18,101 –> 00:22:21,607
[fraser_stark]: the d b pension side i’ve worked
so i do have a more financial background

488
00:22:22,588 –> 00:22:23,049
[fraser_stark]: after being

489
00:22:22,952 –> 00:22:23,173
[bruno_caron]: oh

490
00:22:23,089 –> 00:22:29,578
[fraser_stark]: though you know influitive and facebook both
tech companies and both really innovative and i

491
00:22:29,610 –> 00:22:30,270
[paul_tyler]: yeah

492
00:22:29,658 –> 00:22:34,402
[fraser_stark]: think that’s what’s what’s happening here is
i was drawn to this role to join

493
00:22:34,522 –> 00:22:37,576
[fraser_stark]: early twenty twenty one because

494
00:22:37,262 –> 00:22:37,544
[bruno_caron]: oh

495
00:22:37,676 –> 00:22:43,205
[fraser_stark]: it’s it’s important innovation and it’s not
going to be easy you know this is

496
00:22:43,326 –> 00:22:44,928
[fraser_stark]: this takes real change in mind

497
00:22:44,762 –> 00:22:45,106
[bruno_caron]: yeah

498
00:22:45,028 –> 00:22:51,018
[fraser_stark]: shift and we’ve got a product here
that solves a the important problem for retires

499
00:22:51,619 –> 00:22:56,628
[fraser_stark]: and yet it looks so different that
getting that getting the product design right and

500
00:22:56,668 –> 00:23:01,295
[fraser_stark]: thinking about it both in financial terms
as well as consumer terms and the you

501
00:23:01,336 –> 00:23:05,783
[fraser_stark]: know the real way that people make
decisions at the kitchen table you know talking

502
00:23:05,823 –> 00:23:10,190
[fraser_stark]: to their advisor talking to their spouse
talking to their kids you know all of

503
00:23:10,250 –> 00:23:15,499
[fraser_stark]: those things it makes it fascinating problem
to solve and it’s it’s been a ton

504
00:23:15,579 –> 00:23:19,045
[fraser_stark]: of fun so far and you know
we can’t wait to see where it goes

505
00:23:19,105 –> 00:23:21,509
[fraser_stark]: but this is what i do in
my career is i think on my linked

506
00:23:21,549 –> 00:23:23,372
[fraser_stark]: in i say i like solving

507
00:23:23,702 –> 00:23:23,926
[bruno_caron]: oh

508
00:23:24,174 –> 00:23:30,284
[fraser_stark]: really challenge problems with technology and you
know this is more financial engineering than you

509
00:23:30,304 –> 00:23:34,911
[fraser_stark]: know data base engineering but none the
less it’s it’s a really cool it’s a

510
00:23:34,932 –> 00:23:36,961
[fraser_stark]: really cool space and i’m loving here

511
00:23:39,312 –> 00:23:44,741
[bruno_caron]: no that there and then i mean
that’s going back to the point you mentioned

512
00:23:44,821 –> 00:23:50,831
[bruno_caron]: earlier on education and that that that
kitchen table sale can you dis some of

513
00:23:50,871 –> 00:23:55,078
[bruno_caron]: the some of the some of the
initiatives that you’ve you’ve had and what some

514
00:23:55,098 –> 00:24:01,128
[bruno_caron]: of the challenges that you’ve had in
terms of bringing the idea of the concept

515
00:24:01,268 –> 00:24:08,079
[bruno_caron]: forward people to individuals or to to
employes as you as you mentioned

516
00:24:08,876 –> 00:24:12,403
[fraser_stark]: yeah you know there are there are
a couple of challenges here you know one

517
00:24:12,523 –> 00:24:15,910
[fraser_stark]: thing is that i have found interesting
an i’s been a bit of a surprise

518
00:24:16,110 –> 00:24:20,212
[fraser_stark]: when you start talking about this fund
a lot of people you see their mental

519
00:24:20,293 –> 00:24:25,347
[fraser_stark]: wheels start turning and they say if
i put all my money into this you

520
00:24:25,387 –> 00:24:29,915
[fraser_stark]: know i’d have i’d be rather a
liquid and and they’re not wrong but we

521
00:24:29,995 –> 00:24:32,820
[fraser_stark]: sort of say well who said anything
about putting all your money into this i

522
00:24:32,880 –> 00:24:37,347
[fraser_stark]: mean that that sort of true of
of any product is it’s not right for

523
00:24:37,488 –> 00:24:42,997
[fraser_stark]: for everything you know so so that
education what i’m getting at there is sometimes

524
00:24:43,057 –> 00:24:49,089
[fraser_stark]: we bring in our preconceived notions on
on products and when you talk about a

525
00:24:49,129 –> 00:24:52,579
[fraser_stark]: product like this people jump to all
of it and we say absolutely not you

526
00:24:52,619 –> 00:24:56,007
[fraser_stark]: know this isn’t right for everyone and
even the people it’s right for it’s not

527
00:24:56,067 –> 00:24:59,032
[fraser_stark]: right for all of their assents one
thing we’re seeing is a lot of our

528
00:24:59,072 –> 00:25:04,161
[fraser_stark]: investors actually already have a d b
pension or they already have annuities in their

529
00:25:04,201 –> 00:25:09,730
[fraser_stark]: portfolio and what they’re doing is there
they’re compartmentalizing the income in retirement and saying

530
00:25:09,750 –> 00:25:12,935
[fraser_stark]: there’s a there’s a portion that’s absolute
base line you know in canada we have

531
00:25:13,216 –> 00:25:18,324
[fraser_stark]: we have pretty good government supports which
is which is great and some people buy

532
00:25:18,425 –> 00:25:24,955
[fraser_stark]: nuits to create more guaranteed income at
a fixed level this allows them to have

533
00:25:25,436 –> 00:25:29,382
[fraser_stark]: income for life at a variable level
and we show them that it will vary

534
00:25:29,463 –> 00:25:33,910
[fraser_stark]: but it shouldn’t dramatically because of the
way we manage it so that’s one thing

535
00:25:33,990 –> 00:25:39,762
[fraser_stark]: on the on the education side it’s
been really interesting the other is just because

536
00:25:39,822 –> 00:25:44,033
[fraser_stark]: this product looks and sounds like an
annuity in some ways a lot of people

537
00:25:45,350 –> 00:25:49,691
[fraser_stark]: you know we have people ask us
well well how can you say it’s guaranteed

538
00:25:50,132 –> 00:25:53,639
[fraser_stark]: and we say we didn’t say it
was guaranteed right we said it’s income for

539
00:25:53,719 –> 00:25:57,105
[fraser_stark]: life at a variable level and that’s
an that’s clear but they’re bringing in that

540
00:25:57,165 –> 00:26:00,530
[fraser_stark]: notion that because it’s ncome for life
and the only income for life people have

541
00:26:00,570 –> 00:26:04,797
[fraser_stark]: ever seen is a d b pensioner
an ane they’re they’re bringing that in as

542
00:26:04,837 –> 00:26:09,585
[fraser_stark]: well and the final example in that
sphere is that this is it ties to

543
00:26:09,645 –> 00:26:14,013
[fraser_stark]: a single person there’s no spousal component
to it that’s an innovation we could we

544
00:26:14,073 –> 00:26:18,718
[fraser_stark]: could do further there’s trade off to
it of course because a couple lives longer

545
00:26:18,778 –> 00:26:22,402
[fraser_stark]: than a person the distribution levels would
be lower and that could be the right

546
00:26:22,462 –> 00:26:28,319
[fraser_stark]: trade off but a lot of times
people say you know well my my spouse

547
00:26:28,379 –> 00:26:32,005
[fraser_stark]: and i you know both need income
and i want like they feel as though

548
00:26:32,045 –> 00:26:37,494
[fraser_stark]: the product is designed against their interests
by not being spousal and and we have

549
00:26:37,514 –> 00:26:41,281
[fraser_stark]: a nversation and point out and generally
we we get them there that well you

550
00:26:41,321 –> 00:26:45,628
[fraser_stark]: can buy some in each person’s name
and in fact that actually lets you create

551
00:26:46,810 –> 00:26:51,998
[fraser_stark]: a very effective income flow before and
after first member of a couple has passed

552
00:26:52,059 –> 00:26:57,648
[fraser_stark]: away you can actually engineer it really
brilliantly because again this this allocation let’s say

553
00:26:57,708 –> 00:27:02,095
[fraser_stark]: a couple with a million dollars who
put four hundred thousand into longevity two hundred

554
00:27:02,135 –> 00:27:08,165
[fraser_stark]: in each person’s name they’ve created a
very nicely aline stream of income to their

555
00:27:08,205 –> 00:27:13,756
[fraser_stark]: needs before and after the first member
passes away but these are what i’m in

556
00:27:13,877 –> 00:27:21,070
[fraser_stark]: out is that we carry a lot
of preconceived notions in i think financial education

557
00:27:21,151 –> 00:27:28,349
[fraser_stark]: among the general population varies from high
to quite low and it’s important for everyone

558
00:27:28,589 –> 00:27:33,154
[fraser_stark]: you know to think through these issues
so i think the same issues that that

559
00:27:33,715 –> 00:27:38,683
[fraser_stark]: an agent would would struggle with or
might struggle with explaining a more complex annuity

560
00:27:38,763 –> 00:27:42,710
[fraser_stark]: to a family i think some of
that exists here but people are really resonating

561
00:27:42,730 –> 00:27:47,690
[fraser_stark]: with this message of you still benefit
from market return have the confidence to spend

562
00:27:48,375 –> 00:27:52,241
[fraser_stark]: it’s still assets that you can think
of in your portfolio because they are there

563
00:27:52,381 –> 00:27:56,027
[fraser_stark]: for you and when you pass away
a portion is left in or after a

564
00:27:56,047 –> 00:27:59,733
[fraser_stark]: number of years it’s all left in
but those are some of the challenges bruno

565
00:27:59,814 –> 00:28:00,799
[fraser_stark]: that we’re facing

566
00:28:07,552 –> 00:28:12,780
[bruno_caron]: wonderful and i mean i know we
kind of touched on it a little bit

567
00:28:14,243 –> 00:28:18,470
[bruno_caron]: but you know you mentioned you know
some of those those preconceived ideas some of

568
00:28:18,510 –> 00:28:18,590
[bruno_caron]: the

569
00:28:19,675 –> 00:28:21,055
[fraser_stark]: yeah

570
00:28:19,892 –> 00:28:26,043
[bruno_caron]: the guarantees um any other parallel within
you know with

571
00:28:25,890 –> 00:28:26,610
[paul_tyler]: yeah

572
00:28:26,083 –> 00:28:33,094
[bruno_caron]: your comparable peers and i e annuities
in any any other differences you’d like to

573
00:28:33,615 –> 00:28:38,383
[bruno_caron]: highlight and maybe perhaps on the on
the investment side we didn’t discuss too much

574
00:28:38,543 –> 00:28:41,989
[bruno_caron]: but any anything in that in that
particular area

575
00:28:42,685 –> 00:28:47,773
[fraser_stark]: yeah yeah you know the investment side
is it’s our our c i o purpose

576
00:28:48,354 –> 00:28:54,685
[fraser_stark]: greg taylor who manages the portfolio with
no one but they’ve created a truly diversive

577
00:28:54,805 –> 00:28:57,389
[fraser_stark]: i m portfolio across geography

578
00:28:57,450 –> 00:28:59,580
[paul_tyler]: yeah

579
00:28:57,529 –> 00:29:01,596
[fraser_stark]: sect or strategy you know it’s a
mix a fixed income and equities we use

580
00:29:01,756 –> 00:29:08,247
[fraser_stark]: hedging overlaid to further reduce risk there’s
about nineteen percent out casion to alternatives which

581
00:29:08,307 –> 00:29:13,235
[fraser_stark]: we invest in through through liquid alternative
funds which gives access

582
00:29:13,800 –> 00:29:14,063
[paul_tyler]: yeah

583
00:29:14,317 –> 00:29:19,907
[fraser_stark]: to real estate to energy to precious
metals base metals et cetera that portion of

584
00:29:19,927 –> 00:29:22,431
[fraser_stark]: the portfolio has been really great this
year when we’ve

585
00:29:22,380 –> 00:29:23,280
[paul_tyler]: oh

586
00:29:22,471 –> 00:29:26,738
[fraser_stark]: been so challenged in markets with with
this inflationary environment the

587
00:29:26,820 –> 00:29:27,870
[paul_tyler]: oh

588
00:29:27,058 –> 00:29:32,949
[fraser_stark]: portfolio is targeting a return of only
around five percent you know it’s deliberately seeking

589
00:29:33,029 –> 00:29:37,197
[fraser_stark]: return with minimum volatility this isn’t about
ou know a lot of d b pensions

590
00:29:37,067 –> 00:29:37,150
[bruno_caron]: ah

591
00:29:37,277 –> 00:29:43,368
[fraser_stark]: actually strive for eight to nine percent
annually they almost need hit that in over

592
00:29:43,408 –> 00:29:48,136
[fraser_stark]: the long term in order to in
order to make their make all their payments

593
00:29:48,216 –> 00:29:52,964
[fraser_stark]: but we’ve we’ve set this up to
work on a on a low return basis

594
00:29:53,100 –> 00:29:53,443
[paul_tyler]: oh

595
00:29:53,765 –> 00:29:57,732
[fraser_stark]: that said it’s very different than an
annuity because there it’s an investment fund there’s

596
00:29:57,792 –> 00:30:01,739
[fraser_stark]: no capital reserve requirements where we’re able
to benefit from

597
00:30:01,770 –> 00:30:02,017
[paul_tyler]: oh

598
00:30:01,779 –> 00:30:07,207
[fraser_stark]: that market risk premium and i think
that i think that’s that’s really powerful and

599
00:30:07,267 –> 00:30:11,112
[fraser_stark]: as much as in these early days
there’s a lot of education with investors going

600
00:30:11,252 –> 00:30:11,673
[fraser_stark]: on that

601
00:30:11,708 –> 00:30:11,928
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

602
00:30:12,090 –> 00:30:12,930
[paul_tyler]: oh

603
00:30:13,855 –> 00:30:17,481
[fraser_stark]: you know sometimes it goes very well
sometimes the product

604
00:30:17,427 –> 00:30:17,588
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

605
00:30:17,562 –> 00:30:22,129
[fraser_stark]: is still too foreign to people and
that’s okay but i see this over the

606
00:30:22,169 –> 00:30:25,475
[fraser_stark]: long term getting to a place where
it’s much easier to explain than a the

607
00:30:25,555 –> 00:30:26,459
[fraser_stark]: annuity constructions

608
00:30:26,310 –> 00:30:27,000
[paul_tyler]: my

609
00:30:26,920 –> 00:30:30,132
[fraser_stark]: and the transparency is powerful when someone
passes away

610
00:30:31,220 –> 00:30:31,321
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

611
00:30:31,755 –> 00:30:33,238
[fraser_stark]: purpose investments does not

612
00:30:33,210 –> 00:30:33,840
[paul_tyler]: oh

613
00:30:33,318 –> 00:30:36,864
[fraser_stark]: benefit from that in any way if
you think about where those mortality credits go

614
00:30:36,924 –> 00:30:41,030
[fraser_stark]: it always flows to the pool you
know we receive a management fee as investment

615
00:30:41,051 –> 00:30:46,019
[fraser_stark]: managers do on every fund that’s taken
nelly is a percentage of the assets but

616
00:30:46,059 –> 00:30:52,770
[fraser_stark]: the residual left in the pool always
benefits the surviving investors and i think that’s

617
00:30:52,910 –> 00:30:55,314
[fraser_stark]: that’s really powerful people are funny about

618
00:30:55,157 –> 00:30:55,178
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

619
00:30:55,334 –> 00:30:59,802
[fraser_stark]: that concept of fairness right things that
don’t really seem to affect us we still

620
00:30:59,882 –> 00:31:03,909
[fraser_stark]: care about a lot and there’s a
there’s reams of psychological research into how important

621
00:31:03,989 –> 00:31:07,795
[fraser_stark]: fairness is and that’s one of the
elements that really resonates with invest when we

622
00:31:07,835 –> 00:31:10,720
[fraser_stark]: speak to them is that idea that
the

623
00:31:09,810 –> 00:31:10,620
[paul_tyler]: oh

624
00:31:10,820 –> 00:31:16,109
[fraser_stark]: corporation is not benefiting you know if
they if they passed away early you know

625
00:31:16,149 –> 00:31:20,478
[fraser_stark]: the other big tether huge difference from
an annuity is really around that idea i

626
00:31:20,538 –> 00:31:24,349
[fraser_stark]: touched on at the beginning that an
investor can choose to redeem this and i

627
00:31:24,389 –> 00:31:25,833
[fraser_stark]: think that’s that’s really powerful

628
00:31:26,610 –> 00:31:26,953
[paul_tyler]: oh

629
00:31:26,745 –> 00:31:30,431
[fraser_stark]: of course many annuities will either keep
paying or lump some out to the estate

630
00:31:30,511 –> 00:31:35,760
[fraser_stark]: of some one who passes away but
your your voluntary redeemability is typically quite low

631
00:31:36,040 –> 00:31:41,449
[fraser_stark]: depending on the structure with this fund
we never treated any differently whether you’ve passed

632
00:31:41,509 –> 00:31:45,256
[fraser_stark]: away or are simply asking you to
have your money back and i think that’s

633
00:31:45,276 –> 00:31:50,545
[fraser_stark]: really powerful it means no one ever
has an incentive to live or to die

634
00:31:50,685 –> 00:31:51,026
[fraser_stark]: if you think

635
00:31:51,041 –> 00:31:51,206
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

636
00:31:51,067 –> 00:31:54,943
[fraser_stark]: about it financially it’s it’s i think
that’s a powerful benefit

637
00:31:55,890 –> 00:31:58,474
[paul_tyler]: for sure i think we just lost
a brutal unfortunately

638
00:31:58,369 –> 00:31:58,670
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: but yeah

639
00:31:58,875 –> 00:31:58,995
[paul_tyler]: but

640
00:31:59,067 –> 00:31:59,293
[fraser_stark]: okay

641
00:31:59,236 –> 00:32:00,237
[paul_tyler]: tsa tis now

642
00:32:00,229 –> 00:32:00,249
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

643
00:32:00,257 –> 00:32:00,999
[paul_tyler]: you had a question

644
00:32:01,678 –> 00:32:04,423
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah i wanted to jump in so
i agree with you sort of that power

645
00:32:04,543 –> 00:32:12,135
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of fairness and choice but i wanted
to go back you in your background mentioned

646
00:32:12,656 –> 00:32:18,145
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you innovation and tech that thread throughout
the positions that you’ve held so i heard

647
00:32:18,185 –> 00:32:22,212
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you talk a little bit about technology
infused into the financial modeling but i was

648
00:32:22,312 –> 00:32:26,800
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: curious if there’s any tech or innovation
you could share and whether it’s you know

649
00:32:26,880 –> 00:32:31,428
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: user experience sort of what investors might
be empowered to do through managing their assets

650
00:32:31,508 –> 00:32:36,095
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: on your platform or any other type
of infusions of tech for the actual benefit

651
00:32:36,155 –> 00:32:37,698
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the investor um

652
00:32:37,908 –> 00:32:38,333
[fraser_stark]: great question

653
00:32:38,100 –> 00:32:38,220
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that

654
00:32:38,373 –> 00:32:38,555
[fraser_stark]: tis

655
00:32:38,461 –> 00:32:39,565
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you guys might make considering

656
00:32:40,445 –> 00:32:45,293
[fraser_stark]: yeah you know right now because it
sold as a mutual fund the client experience

657
00:32:45,353 –> 00:32:49,480
[fraser_stark]: is typically between the deal or whether
that’s an online

658
00:32:49,324 –> 00:32:49,838
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

659
00:32:49,520 –> 00:32:53,346
[fraser_stark]: brokerage or an advisor someone works with
or the life works platform for someone who

660
00:32:53,386 –> 00:32:57,633
[fraser_stark]: manage this manages this as part of
their workplace savings program so

661
00:32:57,758 –> 00:32:58,898
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: mhm

662
00:32:57,994 –> 00:32:58,174
[fraser_stark]: that

663
00:32:58,140 –> 00:32:58,366
[paul_tyler]: oh

664
00:32:58,254 –> 00:32:59,216
[fraser_stark]: experience is

665
00:32:59,220 –> 00:33:00,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

666
00:32:59,296 –> 00:33:04,685
[fraser_stark]: today controlled there you know we have
bold ambitions to play in different parts this

667
00:33:05,106 –> 00:33:05,707
[fraser_stark]: but what i can

668
00:33:05,910 –> 00:33:06,750
[paul_tyler]: oh

669
00:33:05,947 –> 00:33:11,416
[fraser_stark]: what i can tell you is our
website retire with longevity dot com has two

670
00:33:11,476 –> 00:33:17,967
[fraser_stark]: calculators there visualize ones as a simple
visualizer of income someone can expect the others

671
00:33:18,027 –> 00:33:22,234
[fraser_stark]: a bit more of a of a
picture a canadian retired investors

672
00:33:21,701 –> 00:33:22,208
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

673
00:33:23,236 –> 00:33:28,284
[fraser_stark]: income profile you know when i look
and i see calculators you know that exist

674
00:33:28,425 –> 00:33:32,097
[fraser_stark]: online in different places often they’re very
complex

675
00:33:32,340 –> 00:33:32,582
[paul_tyler]: oh

676
00:33:32,835 –> 00:33:38,183
[fraser_stark]: i think they may be in some
cases designed to make the person showing it

677
00:33:38,224 –> 00:33:42,791
[fraser_stark]: to the client look smart or you
know it’s more about showing complexity than the

678
00:33:42,891 –> 00:33:47,878
[fraser_stark]: simplicity and we want to with that
i mean our investors are very intelligent but

679
00:33:48,179 –> 00:33:54,186
[fraser_stark]: but this is not the they’re not
actuaries they’re not financial know ph d s

680
00:33:54,547 –> 00:33:59,453
[fraser_stark]: and so the more you can show
someone simplicity i think and and so we’ve

681
00:33:59,473 –> 00:34:04,840
[fraser_stark]: got some calculators today where where i
can see us going with this is you

682
00:34:04,880 –> 00:34:05,281
[fraser_stark]: know too

683
00:34:05,379 –> 00:34:05,400
[paul_tyler]: m

684
00:34:05,481 –> 00:34:10,930
[fraser_stark]: often we we go to averages planners
often say well you know the average person

685
00:34:11,030 –> 00:34:13,855
[fraser_stark]: is sixty five can expect to live
to be eighty seven eighty eight you know

686
00:34:13,955 –> 00:34:18,162
[fraser_stark]: depending on country and gender and so
forth so let’s build you a plan of

687
00:34:18,202 –> 00:34:23,932
[fraser_stark]: ninety right but averages are always dangerous
i go back to that that that fable

688
00:34:23,972 –> 00:34:27,798
[fraser_stark]: you know would you you walk across
the fast flowing river if i told you

689
00:34:28,019 –> 00:34:31,184
[fraser_stark]: on average it was only two feet
deep well if it’s eight feet deep in

690
00:34:31,204 –> 00:34:34,790
[fraser_stark]: the middle you’ll you’ll get washed away
and i think the same thing is exactly

691
00:34:34,850 –> 00:34:39,723
[fraser_stark]: what exists for investors so i could
s in the next year building tools that

692
00:34:40,767 –> 00:34:47,941
[fraser_stark]: that make monte carlo simulations readily accessible
in a real way to investors and i

693
00:34:47,981 –> 00:34:53,110
[fraser_stark]: think monte carlo is the thing and
stocastic fancy greek word or latin word for

694
00:34:53,150 –> 00:34:57,617
[fraser_stark]: it these are terms that just sound
like a lot of sophistication went in on

695
00:34:57,637 –> 00:35:01,844
[fraser_stark]: the back end but i’d love to
show investors that there’s a wide range of

696
00:35:01,904 –> 00:35:07,814
[fraser_stark]: possibilities and what you need to do
is optimize you need to optimize your situation

697
00:35:07,854 –> 00:35:11,080
[fraser_stark]: work gardless of what happens right it’s
what we do when we insure things it’s

698
00:35:11,100 –> 00:35:16,629
[fraser_stark]: what an annuity does right an nuities
great annuities are great products but but that

699
00:35:16,729 –> 00:35:20,996
[fraser_stark]: idea you know it’s not easy and
these things are complex in the back end

700
00:35:21,076 –> 00:35:24,322
[fraser_stark]: how do you turn it into something
that’s visually quite simple you know i think

701
00:35:24,722 –> 00:35:28,248
[fraser_stark]: know my experience at facebook for a
couple of years you know is a great

702
00:35:28,308 –> 00:35:32,696
[fraser_stark]: example of a platform that takes you
know the amount of information lowing through that

703
00:35:32,856 –> 00:35:37,083
[fraser_stark]: the you know whether you think about
our user experience and being able to you

704
00:35:37,143 –> 00:35:40,449
[fraser_stark]: know to attend events and see that
our friends are going that is that is

705
00:35:40,489 –> 00:35:45,417
[fraser_stark]: a tremendous amount of information that’s simplified
and really consumable ay by people of all

706
00:35:45,477 –> 00:35:50,245
[fraser_stark]: ages it’s become a controversial platform social
media itself is a controversial topic these days

707
00:35:50,640 –> 00:35:51,690
[paul_tyler]: oh

708
00:35:51,387 –> 00:35:54,492
[fraser_stark]: but likewise if you think about what
what happens i was on the on the

709
00:35:54,572 –> 00:35:59,480
[fraser_stark]: ads team at facebook if you think
what happens there the amount of data that

710
00:35:59,540 –> 00:36:03,587
[fraser_stark]: is going in to determining that that
i see and add you know advertising a

711
00:36:03,627 –> 00:36:07,834
[fraser_stark]: certain car brand or you know sneakers
that they want me to buy it’s immense

712
00:36:07,934 –> 00:36:14,787
[fraser_stark]: amounts information going in so that’s where
i see a lot of education that’s really

713
00:36:14,907 –> 00:36:17,031
[fraser_stark]: helpful to investors you know i think

714
00:36:16,950 –> 00:36:17,438
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

715
00:36:17,191 –> 00:36:22,352
[fraser_stark]: our legacy should be we’d love to
to really help investors in canada and around

716
00:36:22,392 –> 00:36:31,189
[fraser_stark]: the world understand the challenge of the
accumulation and and you know if that’s what

717
00:36:31,229 –> 00:36:35,897
[fraser_stark]: we create however they choose to solve
that great and i think our fund will

718
00:36:36,357 –> 00:36:38,341
[fraser_stark]: we’ll ride that wave of course

719
00:36:39,050 –> 00:36:39,518
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

720
00:36:39,222 –> 00:36:44,231
[fraser_stark]: but i think it’s just so important
people you people are suffering and and lots

721
00:36:44,251 –> 00:36:47,376
[fraser_stark]: of investors are doing really well but
we hear from canadians every day who are

722
00:36:47,476 –> 00:36:50,160
[fraser_stark]: really hit by what’s going on in
markets and you know

723
00:36:50,151 –> 00:36:50,678
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

724
00:36:50,201 –> 00:36:54,911
[fraser_stark]: they’ve not got enough money to last
them forever at their current rate of spend

725
00:36:55,252 –> 00:36:57,780
[fraser_stark]: and so being able to articulate that
is

726
00:36:57,780 –> 00:36:58,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

727
00:36:57,820 –> 00:36:58,863
[fraser_stark]: where i’d love to contribute

728
00:36:59,540 –> 00:37:00,886
[paul_tyler]: okay so your fund

729
00:37:01,238 –> 00:37:01,382
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

730
00:37:01,308 –> 00:37:09,623
[paul_tyler]: versus annuities is it does your product
replace annuities if i’m an investor reward is

731
00:37:09,663 –> 00:37:14,253
[paul_tyler]: a compliment would i ever own your
fund and have an annuity at the same

732
00:37:14,334 –> 00:37:14,575
[paul_tyler]: time

733
00:37:15,705 –> 00:37:18,450
[fraser_stark]: many of our investors do and when
we speak with the com know we do

734
00:37:18,530 –> 00:37:22,697
[fraser_stark]: market research and talk to investors we
welcome them to the community we’re building um

735
00:37:23,097 –> 00:37:23,177
[fraser_stark]: you

736
00:37:23,139 –> 00:37:23,160
[paul_tyler]: m

737
00:37:23,198 –> 00:37:26,483
[fraser_stark]: know and and a surprising number of
them do say you know i have annuities

738
00:37:26,543 –> 00:37:28,967
[fraser_stark]: and i heard about this fun and
and i understood

739
00:37:28,530 –> 00:37:28,813
[paul_tyler]: oh

740
00:37:29,007 –> 00:37:33,114
[fraser_stark]: the differences you know i like the
shelf analogy and you think about you know

741
00:37:33,174 –> 00:37:36,880
[fraser_stark]: a shelf at a store and the
two products side by side on the shelf

742
00:37:36,900 –> 00:37:41,170
[fraser_stark]: they each have different different trade offs
and benefits um and i think that’s that’s

743
00:37:41,210 –> 00:37:44,862
[fraser_stark]: very true here you know there are
investors who will look at our fund and

744
00:37:44,942 –> 00:37:50,021
[fraser_stark]: say what i’m actually after is an
annuity i need that guarantee i’m willing to

745
00:37:50,102 –> 00:37:55,070
[fraser_stark]: accept less you know what i say
about guarantees we we’ve got to blog post

746
00:37:55,130 –> 00:37:57,674
[fraser_stark]: on our website about guarantees they’re wonderful

747
00:37:57,510 –> 00:37:58,380
[paul_tyler]: oh

748
00:37:58,096 –> 00:38:01,518
[fraser_stark]: but they come at a cost and
you may or may not choose to take

749
00:38:01,538 –> 00:38:04,843
[fraser_stark]: that cost i mean do you do
you buy the insurance when you get a

750
00:38:04,903 –> 00:38:08,957
[fraser_stark]: new smart phone you know that means
if you if you drop it and smash

751
00:38:09,037 –> 00:38:11,960
[fraser_stark]: it the company some people do some
people don’t they’re making the right decision for

752
00:38:12,000 –> 00:38:17,710
[fraser_stark]: themselves in the guarantee against market risk
that comes with an annuity is right for

753
00:38:17,770 –> 00:38:21,718
[fraser_stark]: some people and not right for others
and the research shows we’ve got an amazing

754
00:38:21,798 –> 00:38:24,182
[fraser_stark]: advisory committee on this fund one of
whom

755
00:38:24,210 –> 00:38:24,539
[paul_tyler]: oh

756
00:38:24,582 –> 00:38:31,133
[fraser_stark]: jim leech ran ontario teachers pension plan
and and others bonny macdonald’s leading academic what

757
00:38:31,254 –> 00:38:35,340
[fraser_stark]: each of our our advisory members has
told us in different ways is that investors

758
00:38:35,441 –> 00:38:42,292
[fraser_stark]: are actually able to manage variability and
income it think about our lives if i

759
00:38:42,392 –> 00:38:46,669
[fraser_stark]: get a raise at work i’m gonna
i’m going to change my spending in slight

760
00:38:46,709 –> 00:38:50,676
[fraser_stark]: ways it may mean more saving but
it may also mean slightly different spending patterns

761
00:38:50,756 –> 00:38:54,383
[fraser_stark]: likewise if i take a different job
at a lower pay level i’m not i’m

762
00:38:54,423 –> 00:39:00,506
[fraser_stark]: not absolutely you know devastate it in
a irrecoverable way we can adjust to those

763
00:39:00,546 –> 00:39:05,428
[fraser_stark]: things and so when you say to
someone you know i’ll guarantee you i don’t

764
00:39:05,468 –> 00:39:10,556
[fraser_stark]: know x per cent or or i
can offer you one and a half times

765
00:39:10,636 –> 00:39:14,041
[fraser_stark]: that as a return but knowing that
there are scenarios where it could go down

766
00:39:14,102 –> 00:39:15,564
[fraser_stark]: to less than whatever that x was

767
00:39:16,170 –> 00:39:16,560
[paul_tyler]: oh

768
00:39:16,926 –> 00:39:20,792
[fraser_stark]: and you know people rightly ask a
lot of questions about that well how likely

769
00:39:20,852 –> 00:39:24,779
[fraser_stark]: is it to do these different things
and that’s what we’ve been so transparent with

770
00:39:24,899 –> 00:39:28,004
[fraser_stark]: our with our reporting and the annual
report we’re putting out in a couple of

771
00:39:28,024 –> 00:39:32,049
[fraser_stark]: weeks to show you know the update
on all that but that’s that’s really how

772
00:39:32,089 –> 00:39:36,553
[fraser_stark]: to think of it against an annuity
and that idea of compartmentalizing our income sources

773
00:39:36,598 –> 00:39:36,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

774
00:39:36,613 –> 00:39:39,118
[fraser_stark]: in retirement most most

775
00:39:39,162 –> 00:39:39,263
[paul_tyler]: ah

776
00:39:39,218 –> 00:39:43,488
[fraser_stark]: investors in canada do not own annuities
and i think if someone says they’ve looked

777
00:39:43,397 –> 00:39:43,418
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

778
00:39:43,528 –> 00:39:45,192
[fraser_stark]: at longevity and are going to

779
00:39:45,197 –> 00:39:45,218
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

780
00:39:46,675 –> 00:39:51,523
[fraser_stark]: are going to buy an annuity i
think that’s fantastic you’re you’re protecting yourself against

781
00:39:51,563 –> 00:39:55,349
[fraser_stark]: longevity risk someone says i’ve looked at
longevity and i think i’m just going to

782
00:39:55,369 –> 00:39:58,254
[fraser_stark]: keep my assets in a balanced fund

783
00:39:58,560 –> 00:39:58,822
[paul_tyler]: oh

784
00:39:59,014 –> 00:40:04,483
[fraser_stark]: m i think okay but you’ve left
yourself you’ve left yourself self insured effectively and

785
00:40:04,924 –> 00:40:08,710
[fraser_stark]: what you have to do then as
an investor s decide how do i balance

786
00:40:08,810 –> 00:40:13,196
[fraser_stark]: the risk of running out of money
at some state which is which is a

787
00:40:13,256 –> 00:40:18,685
[fraser_stark]: possibility unless you unless you stretch your
portfolio to last until your dean fifteen you

788
00:40:18,725 –> 00:40:22,291
[fraser_stark]: know the oldest canadian ever live to
be ned seventeen and a half but i

789
00:40:22,331 –> 00:40:26,798
[fraser_stark]: think a hunderd and fifteen will cover
you know basically everyone if you do that

790
00:40:26,978 –> 00:40:27,298
[fraser_stark]: you have

791
00:40:27,180 –> 00:40:27,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah

792
00:40:27,759 –> 00:40:33,194
[fraser_stark]: you have a very high degree of
certainty of understanding and leaving a lot of

793
00:40:33,275 –> 00:40:37,051
[fraser_stark]: money your estate and that’s it’s great
for your state but

794
00:40:37,269 –> 00:40:37,290
[paul_tyler]: m

795
00:40:37,775 –> 00:40:40,803
[fraser_stark]: that’s that that’s the trade off and
so that’s how we think about it

796
00:40:42,189 –> 00:40:42,210
[paul_tyler]: m

797
00:40:43,049 –> 00:40:45,152
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so fraser few times

798
00:40:45,188 –> 00:40:45,289
[fraser_stark]: to

799
00:40:45,433 –> 00:40:50,201
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i’ve i’ve heard you sort of hint
at i think a bigger why i’ve heard

800
00:40:50,241 –> 00:40:53,787
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you talk about sort of the power
of the product and a little bit about

801
00:40:53,827 –> 00:40:54,287
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the legs

802
00:40:54,115 –> 00:40:55,285
[fraser_stark]: yeah

803
00:40:54,528 –> 00:40:59,136
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the company so my question for
you is it feels like there’s maybe an

804
00:40:59,236 –> 00:41:06,147
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: intention to shift the investors mindset about
retirement could you comment a little bit on

805
00:41:06,688 –> 00:41:10,297
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: kind of that bigger why or what
you hope to do and shifting people’s attitudes

806
00:41:10,358 –> 00:41:13,866
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: about retirement their attitudes around outliving their
assets

807
00:41:15,465 –> 00:41:20,574
[fraser_stark]: yeah it’s a great question to send
and you know our mantra at purpose and

808
00:41:20,955 –> 00:41:25,001
[fraser_stark]: on the longevity team his ambition never
retires i think we’re driven by a sense

809
00:41:25,322 –> 00:41:26,564
[fraser_stark]: of this

810
00:41:26,580 –> 00:41:26,786
[paul_tyler]: yeah

811
00:41:26,644 –> 00:41:30,951
[fraser_stark]: can be an amazing third act in
people’s lives people are spending more time in

812
00:41:31,011 –> 00:41:34,477
[fraser_stark]: retirement as retirement age you now it
varies we call

813
00:41:34,350 –> 00:41:34,551
[paul_tyler]: oh

814
00:41:34,537 –> 00:41:35,559
[fraser_stark]: it sixty five of course

815
00:41:35,468 –> 00:41:36,278
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

816
00:41:35,699 –> 00:41:37,642
[fraser_stark]: not every one retires at sixty five
we sort of

817
00:41:37,651 –> 00:41:38,138
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

818
00:41:37,702 –> 00:41:39,571
[fraser_stark]: use that as a cliche

819
00:41:40,350 –> 00:41:41,559
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah

820
00:41:41,855 –> 00:41:44,339
[fraser_stark]: it can be such a powerful time
in life

821
00:41:44,184 –> 00:41:44,266
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

822
00:41:44,700 –> 00:41:48,626
[fraser_stark]: but if you’re stressed about running out
of money it may not be or it

823
00:41:48,646 –> 00:41:50,770
[fraser_stark]: may not live up to its full
potential because

824
00:41:50,678 –> 00:41:51,818
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: mhm

825
00:41:51,270 –> 00:41:52,372
[fraser_stark]: you know doing these things

826
00:41:52,478 –> 00:41:53,678
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

827
00:41:52,593 –> 00:41:58,082
[fraser_stark]: going to see family who live in
a different province or state pursuing hobbies whether

828
00:41:58,142 –> 00:42:03,010
[fraser_stark]: it’s the sort of cliche of golf
or some artistic endeavor or you know even

829
00:42:03,090 –> 00:42:07,978
[fraser_stark]: giving back to your community you know
like a board member volunteer these things they

830
00:42:08,038 –> 00:42:08,179
[fraser_stark]: take

831
00:42:08,212 –> 00:42:08,233
[paul_tyler]: a

832
00:42:08,239 –> 00:42:08,760
[fraser_stark]: resources

833
00:42:08,390 –> 00:42:08,798
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

834
00:42:09,441 –> 00:42:09,701
[fraser_stark]: they don’t

835
00:42:09,591 –> 00:42:09,998
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

836
00:42:09,741 –> 00:42:15,050
[fraser_stark]: take they don’t take huge amounts of
assets but they take income to be able

837
00:42:15,110 –> 00:42:18,215
[fraser_stark]: to know that you can do these
things that you can know gas in the

838
00:42:18,255 –> 00:42:22,282
[fraser_stark]: car pay the rent et cetera and
so you know that

839
00:42:22,200 –> 00:42:22,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

840
00:42:22,382 –> 00:42:28,693
[fraser_stark]: that’s what drives us is this idea
that you know it’s there’s so much research

841
00:42:28,753 –> 00:42:33,661
[fraser_stark]: into into how society doesn’t value the
elderly the way that it

842
00:42:33,601 –> 00:42:34,088
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

843
00:42:33,701 –> 00:42:34,783
[fraser_stark]: should and there’s organization s

844
00:42:34,764 –> 00:42:35,198
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

845
00:42:34,823 –> 00:42:39,771
[fraser_stark]: great advocacy organizations like carp here in
canada really pushing for that but but we

846
00:42:39,912 –> 00:42:43,859
[fraser_stark]: see that as important as well and
want to as a we’re a financial company

847
00:42:44,120 –> 00:42:49,118
[fraser_stark]: we’re an asset manager we want to
help people make the most out of their

848
00:42:49,198 –> 00:42:52,843
[fraser_stark]: assets and so that’s really what drives
us but but we love that saying ambition

849
00:42:52,943 –> 00:42:53,564
[fraser_stark]: never retires

850
00:42:54,158 –> 00:42:54,338
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that’s

851
00:42:54,230 –> 00:42:54,654
[paul_tyler]: ambition

852
00:42:54,398 –> 00:42:54,559
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: great

853
00:42:54,856 –> 00:42:55,118
[paul_tyler]: never

854
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:55,380
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

855
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:55,824
[paul_tyler]: retires

856
00:42:55,460 –> 00:42:58,245
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: was kind of repeating that as you
were speaking ambition never

857
00:42:58,242 –> 00:42:58,422
[paul_tyler]: that’s

858
00:42:58,305 –> 00:42:58,685
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: retires

859
00:42:58,502 –> 00:43:03,530
[paul_tyler]: great that’s great listen you have a
great tag line helping canadians retire from work

860
00:43:03,971 –> 00:43:05,955
[paul_tyler]: not life this is this

861
00:43:05,945 –> 00:43:06,087
[fraser_stark]: right

862
00:43:06,015 –> 00:43:09,941
[paul_tyler]: is good this is more than a
mutual fund stock ticker right think fraser you’ve

863
00:43:09,981 –> 00:43:16,011
[paul_tyler]: got going to your company which is
terrific and um i don’t want to ask

864
00:43:16,292 –> 00:43:17,313
[paul_tyler]: too hard you know we’re

865
00:43:17,288 –> 00:43:17,592
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

866
00:43:17,354 –> 00:43:22,522
[paul_tyler]: right up to the hour here you
talk about your focuses on can tiens how

867
00:43:22,582 –> 00:43:25,147
[paul_tyler]: big of a lift is this to
take your product and put it into the

868
00:43:25,287 –> 00:43:28,732
[paul_tyler]: u s is it really a matter
of just putting resources or do you have

869
00:43:28,773 –> 00:43:32,298
[paul_tyler]: to get some laws changed to do
something like this in the

870
00:43:32,336 –> 00:43:32,537
[fraser_stark]: yeah

871
00:43:32,359 –> 00:43:33,242
[paul_tyler]: states oh

872
00:43:33,097 –> 00:43:37,104
[fraser_stark]: you know it’s a great question and
we see this is applicable around the world

873
00:43:37,946 –> 00:43:43,034
[fraser_stark]: one of the things that that i’ve
been really pleasantly surprised by is just how

874
00:43:43,114 –> 00:43:47,842
[fraser_stark]: many people around the world are all
working towards the same goal here of giving

875
00:43:47,922 –> 00:43:52,810
[fraser_stark]: people security and retirement and i think
there’s applicability of this in the u s

876
00:43:53,051 –> 00:43:54,573
[fraser_stark]: as well as other countries

877
00:43:54,210 –> 00:43:54,534
[paul_tyler]: yeah

878
00:43:55,395 –> 00:44:01,164
[fraser_stark]: you know places in europe are going
through transitions with their pension structure australia has

879
00:44:01,224 –> 00:44:04,790
[fraser_stark]: built an incredible pension system but its
been rally focused on accumulation and not as

880
00:44:04,850 –> 00:44:11,061
[fraser_stark]: much yet on decumulation you know law
is changed i would say is too strong

881
00:44:11,141 –> 00:44:15,208
[fraser_stark]: a wording is what we needed here
in canada was to work with our regulators

882
00:44:15,889 –> 00:44:20,256
[fraser_stark]: to have some exemptions to the way
you know the rules and guidelines that cover

883
00:44:20,597 –> 00:44:26,106
[fraser_stark]: mutual funds you know this idea of
a fund that redeems at less than its

884
00:44:26,166 –> 00:44:29,592
[fraser_stark]: current value it raises eyebrows and we
needed

885
00:44:29,577 –> 00:44:30,090
[paul_tyler]: hm

886
00:44:29,632 –> 00:44:33,338
[fraser_stark]: to show the regulators first of i
was an important problem we’re solving that we

887
00:44:33,378 –> 00:44:37,825
[fraser_stark]: were doing this for reasons that that
to to give us exemptive relief on that

888
00:44:37,926 –> 00:44:41,391
[fraser_stark]: issue allowed us to create a really
powerful product and in that process took a

889
00:44:41,431 –> 00:44:45,678
[fraser_stark]: couple of years but as soon as
they stood the problem and understood that our

890
00:44:45,759 –> 00:44:49,725
[fraser_stark]: structure and the transparency and how we
would use it was powerful they became not

891
00:44:49,805 –> 00:44:55,595
[fraser_stark]: only open to it but actually champions
and ambassadors for us around the country was

892
00:44:55,856 –> 00:44:58,726
[fraser_stark]: which was great you know in the
u s i think similar things would need

893
00:44:58,766 –> 00:45:03,688
[fraser_stark]: to be true and you know you
have regulators who who take really

894
00:45:03,540 –> 00:45:03,844
[paul_tyler]: may

895
00:45:03,768 –> 00:45:10,299
[fraser_stark]: strong investor protection focus as they should
as ours do here and you know we’re

896
00:45:10,480 –> 00:45:15,614
[fraser_stark]: looking to opportunities bring this to the
u s and markets but it really has

897
00:45:15,654 –> 00:45:21,901
[fraser_stark]: to fit within every country’s you know
the structure around how they manage investment funds

898
00:45:22,221 –> 00:45:26,448
[fraser_stark]: and you now we’re so proud of
what we’ve built in canada to see the

899
00:45:26,689 –> 00:45:31,837
[fraser_stark]: attraction it’s getting to be on a
on an institution a record keeping platform this

900
00:45:31,918 –> 00:45:35,003
[fraser_stark]: early in its existence i think is
really really

901
00:45:34,950 –> 00:45:35,135
[paul_tyler]: ye

902
00:45:35,083 –> 00:45:39,951
[fraser_stark]: powerful and the press we’ve gotten around
the world has been has been you know

903
00:45:40,532 –> 00:45:45,079
[fraser_stark]: incredibly encouraging and and wonderful so

904
00:45:45,320 –> 00:45:45,461
[paul_tyler]: yeah

905
00:45:45,560 –> 00:45:48,185
[fraser_stark]: yes they tune stay tuned on on
the us we’d love

906
00:45:48,090 –> 00:45:48,333
[paul_tyler]: oh

907
00:45:48,325 –> 00:45:53,353
[fraser_stark]: to know we’d love to bring a
similar product to the u s and it’s

908
00:45:53,433 –> 00:45:58,783
[fraser_stark]: choice for invest or right and as
i say annuities are great but the guarantees

909
00:45:59,044 –> 00:46:02,069
[fraser_stark]: come on to costs that’s right for
some investors and and not right for others

910
00:46:02,169 –> 00:46:04,514
[fraser_stark]: and i think this belongs on the
shelf beside products like that

911
00:46:05,620 –> 00:46:10,470
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right listen fraser thanks so
much for your time tessa thank you

912
00:46:11,063 –> 00:46:12,706
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you thanks paul thanks fraser

913
00:46:12,594 –> 00:46:18,444
[paul_tyler]: and listen fraser we’ll put your website
in the show notes any other

914
00:46:18,698 –> 00:46:19,298
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

915
00:46:19,105 –> 00:46:24,123
[paul_tyler]: places people should go to learn more
about your company product or reach you

916
00:46:25,228 –> 00:46:29,475
[fraser_stark]: i think the website’s great the contact
information is there for anyone interested reach out

917
00:46:29,555 –> 00:46:34,584
[fraser_stark]: and our team will get notes to
me as appropriate purpose invest dot com is

918
00:46:34,664 –> 00:46:39,068
[fraser_stark]: the parent company’s website if people are
interested in purpose but retire with longevity dot

919
00:46:39,108 –> 00:46:40,089
[fraser_stark]: com is really

920
00:46:39,990 –> 00:46:40,590
[paul_tyler]: oh

921
00:46:40,730 –> 00:46:45,694
[fraser_stark]: a great a great resource with with
lots of articles and helpful tools

922
00:46:46,390 –> 00:46:50,135
[paul_tyler]: all right good all right hey thanks
so much thanks our listeners and join us

923
00:46:50,155 –> 00:46:53,259
[paul_tyler]: again next week for another episode of
that annuity show

924
00:46:54,326 –> 00:46:55,345
[fraser_stark]: all right thanks for having me

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 171: Helping Canadians Retire From Work, Not Life With Fraser Stark
read more

Finding Peace of Mind With Your Retirement Income

No comments

Even in tough times, you can secure retirement income that lets you maintain your lifestyle, lasts a lifetime, adjusts for life events and leaves a legacy for the kids.

Jerry Golden
November 10, 2022

Investors who’ve recently taken a big hit in the market are struggling to find peace of mind when it comes to achieving lifetime retirement income. Don’t give up; it can be done.

Importantly, peace of mind depends on more than just a pile of cash. Consider this scenario of a self-taught money manager who was lucky enough to move 80% of his holdings to cash in 2021. Along with bragging about it, he is offering his money management skills to friends and family.

However, these Baby Boomers are not as well off, are a little older and, because they did not move to cash, they have recently taken a big hit in the market. Now, in addition to losing a significant portion of their retirement savings, they have another anxiety: Am I going to have enough income to maintain my lifestyle for the rest of my life?

A pile of money is nice, but what they need is more targeted: income that is sufficient to support their lifestyle through their entire lifetime, access to funds in case of a late-in-retirement life event, and a legacy left for the kids and grandkids. With those needs, they will obtain that all-important peace of mind.

Let’s explore the qualities, instead of only the quantities, of a plan for all phases of retirement.

How to Achieve Lifetime Retirement Income

In the beginning of retirement, when you stop working, or are working part-time, you need enough income to enable this major change. Ideally, your plan will be easy to understand so you know where your income is coming from. When retirees had a pension along with Social Security, planning was a lot easier. (And tax planning was a lot simpler.) Now, most retirees or near-retirees need a plan for retirement income, like Go2Income (opens in new tab).

With a Go2Income plan, annuity payments supply some of the guaranteed lifetime income that pensions produced. However, you have many more options with these annuity payments, including:

– Annuity payment start dates.
– Income continuation to beneficiary and to a surviving spouse.
– Choice of level, increasing or laddered income.
– Accounts used as a source of annuity premium.

And since annuity payments also have include tax advantages that will boost your spendable (after-tax) income, you need to consider all of these questions and their related tax benefits and consequences.

The above may sound pretty basic, but the money manager mentioned above doesn’t even think in those terms. He’s looking only at the pile of money and how big it is, not whether it can provide a lifetime stream of income or meet life events, or how to capture the tax advantages.

How to Address Life Events

I make a lot of plans for the future. I also hedge my bets in case things don’t go the way I hope, so I deploy annuities or insurance to protect against actuarial or life risks. In addition, a plan like Go2Income should be designed to be easily adjusted in response to adverse market conditions, and where the changes to your income will be relatively small and hopefully temporary when they do occur.

A life event could be (1) a severe but short-term medical condition, or (2) the discovery that your house needs a new roof. Both can be expensive and could also lead to a significant reduction in the value of your savings.

With a Go2Income plan, you can test your plan for, say, a substantial shock to your retirement savings. In many instances, you will find that you need only small income adjustments to recover. And you always have the option of pushing the market loss to a planned reduction in legacy for the kids and grandkids while you maintain your current lifestyle. In any event, you aren’t left waiting for the market to turn around in order to pay your bills.

With your original Go2Income plan, you could be generating more income (after-tax) than you need each month, and you can use that higher income to pay for long-term care and better health insurance coverage, so the medical condition won’t bankrupt you.

And, if you already have good health and long-term care insurance, you can invest that extra income you’re earning into a legacy account.

How to Provide for a Legacy

The best plan should include not worrying about money, particularly late in retirement. You may be traveling a little less and decide to downsize (getting rid of both the lawn mower and the snow blower), so you won’t be spending as much every month. However, there may be other expenses that replace these.

With a successful Go2Income plan, most of your income — particularly in the late-in-retirement stage — will be “safe” and coming from Social Security, annuity payments, dividends and interest, with less in withdrawals from your rollover IRA.

To ensure either spouse is income-protected (even if one lives many more years beyond the spouse who passes first), you can elect an annuity payment option that continues to the survivor. If you believe the surviving spouse will need less income, then you can use that savings for a larger legacy. You can also elect to have annuity payments continue to a non-spouse beneficiary.

You could be putting extra earnings away toward a financial legacy and investing it in an account like a Roth IRA, which will allow your heirs to receive the money without a tax bite. Or you may want to establish a health savings account (HSA). You will find that having a secure source of income enables those types of decisions.

Finally, while putting your retirement income plan together, you may want to do some estate planning at the same time.

How to Have Peace of Mind

I’ll mention the money manager once again —

Interruption to address inflation…

Wait! I can’t end this article without a discussion of inflation and how Go2Income addresses it. As I wrote in my article Factoring Inflation into Your Retirement Plan, you can create an income plan that anticipates inflation over many years and allows for adjustments. How you decide to address market risk, longevity risk and the risk of inflation will help you decide the best plan for you.

Back to our friend the money manager…

With your Go2Income plan, you are using some of today’s retirement savings to purchase a lifetime of safe income and including other sources not requiring the liquidation of securities. And you’re using a portion of that income for insurance protection and/or legacy growth.

The money manager doesn’t have those future life events on his or her screen. If the future brings something unexpected (and it always does), a pile of cash, in a worst-case scenario, may not meet your needs late in retirement.

What I’m really talking about is the peace of mind that you earn with a plan for lifetime income, the ability to adjust to bad news and the gift of a legacy.

Read more: Investors who’ve recently taken a big hit in the market are struggling to find peace of mind when it comes to achieving lifetime retirement income. Don’t give up; it can be done.

How Much More Retirement Income Can You Get?
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Importantly, peace of mind depends on more than just a pile of cash. Consider this scenario of a self-taught money manager who was lucky enough to move 80% of his holdings to cash in 2021. Along with bragging about it, he is offering his money management skills to friends and family.

However, these Baby Boomers are not as well off, are a little older and, because they did not move to cash, they have recently taken a big hit in the market. Now, in addition to losing a significant portion of their retirement savings, they have another anxiety: Am I going to have enough income to maintain my lifestyle for the rest of my life?

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A pile of money is nice, but what they need is more targeted: income that is sufficient to support their lifestyle through their entire lifetime, access to funds in case of a late-in-retirement life event, and a legacy left for the kids and grandkids. With those needs, they will obtain that all-important peace of mind.

Let’s explore the qualities, instead of only the quantities, of a plan for all phases of retirement.

How to Achieve Lifetime Retirement Income
In the beginning of retirement, when you stop working, or are working part-time, you need enough income to enable this major change. Ideally, your plan will be easy to understand so you know where your income is coming from. When retirees had a pension along with Social Security, planning was a lot easier. (And tax planning was a lot simpler.) Now, most retirees or near-retirees need a plan for retirement income, like Go2Income (opens in new tab).

With a Go2Income plan, annuity payments supply some of the guaranteed lifetime income that pensions produced. However, you have many more options with these annuity payments, including:

Annuity payment start dates.
Income continuation to beneficiary and to a surviving spouse.
Choice of level, increasing or laddered income.
Accounts used as a source of annuity premium.
And since annuity payments also have include tax advantages that will boost your spendable (after-tax) income, you need to consider all of these questions and their related tax benefits and consequences.

The above may sound pretty basic, but the money manager mentioned above doesn’t even think in those terms. He’s looking only at the pile of money and how big it is, not whether it can provide a lifetime stream of income or meet life events, or how to capture the tax advantages.

How to Address Life Events
I make a lot of plans for the future. I also hedge my bets in case things don’t go the way I hope, so I deploy annuities or insurance to protect against actuarial or life risks. In addition, a plan like Go2Income should be designed to be easily adjusted in response to adverse market conditions, and where the changes to your income will be relatively small and hopefully temporary when they do occur.

A life event could be (1) a severe but short-term medical condition, or (2) the discovery that your house needs a new roof. Both can be expensive and could also lead to a significant reduction in the value of your savings.

With a Go2Income plan, you can test your plan for, say, a substantial shock to your retirement savings. In many instances, you will find that you need only small income adjustments to recover. And you always have the option of pushing the market loss to a planned reduction in legacy for the kids and grandkids while you maintain your current lifestyle. In any event, you aren’t left waiting for the market to turn around in order to pay your bills.

With your original Go2Income plan, you could be generating more income (after-tax) than you need each month, and you can use that higher income to pay for long-term care and better health insurance coverage, so the medical condition won’t bankrupt you.

And, if you already have good health and long-term care insurance, you can invest that extra income you’re earning into a legacy account.

How to Provide for a Legacy
The best plan should include not worrying about money, particularly late in retirement. You may be traveling a little less and decide to downsize (getting rid of both the lawn mower and the snow blower), so you won’t be spending as much every month. However, there may be other expenses that replace these.

With a successful Go2Income plan, most of your income — particularly in the late-in-retirement stage — will be “safe” and coming from Social Security, annuity payments, dividends and interest, with less in withdrawals from your rollover IRA.

Retirees with a Guaranteed Income Are Happier, Live Longer
To ensure either spouse is income-protected (even if one lives many more years beyond the spouse who passes first), you can elect an annuity payment option that continues to the survivor. If you believe the surviving spouse will need less income, then you can use that savings for a larger legacy. You can also elect to have annuity payments continue to a non-spouse beneficiary.

You could be putting extra earnings away toward a financial legacy and investing it in an account like a Roth IRA, which will allow your heirs to receive the money without a tax bite. Or you may want to establish a health savings account (HSA). You will find that having a secure source of income enables those types of decisions.

Finally, while putting your retirement income plan together, you may want to do some estate planning at the same time.

How to Have Peace of Mind

I’ll mention the money manager once again —

Interruption to address inflation…

Wait! I can’t end this article without a discussion of inflation and how Go2Income addresses it. As I wrote in my article Factoring Inflation into Your Retirement Plan, you can create an income plan that anticipates inflation over many years and allows for adjustments. How you decide to address market risk, longevity risk and the risk of inflation will help you decide the best plan for you.

Back to our friend the money manager…

With your Go2Income plan, you are using some of today’s retirement savings to purchase a lifetime of safe income and including other sources not requiring the liquidation of securities. And you’re using a portion of that income for insurance protection and/or legacy growth.

The money manager doesn’t have those future life events on his or her screen. If the future brings something unexpected (and it always does), a pile of cash, in a worst-case scenario, may not meet your needs late in retirement.

What I’m really talking about is the peace of mind that you earn with a plan for lifetime income, the ability to adjust to bad news and the gift of a legacy.

Read more: https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/achieving-lifetime-retirement-income-in-tough-times

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherFinding Peace of Mind With Your Retirement Income
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‘Quick fix’ concept for IUL illustrations advanced, with some dissent

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John Hilton
November 10, 2022

A state insurance regulator subgroup came up with a “quick fix” Wednesday to address faulty illustration problems within the Actuarial Guideline 49-A.

Sort of.

Members of the Indexed Universal Life Illustration subgroup ended a conference call with a nonbinding “straw poll” vote that favored a fix put forth by Securian Financial and Penn Mutual Life Insurance Co. That was enough for subgroup chair Fred Anderson of the Minnesota Department of Commerce, who agreed to send the poll preference on to the Life Actuarial Task Force.

“We’re really puzzled why you would even consider a proposal to fix this problem from the companies that are causing the problem … it’s like asking a bank robber to design a system to stop them from robbing the bank again.”
Birny Birnbaum, executive director of the Center for Economic Justice

“The proposal accomplishes this task by linking together the option leverage present in the S&P 500 benchmark account with all of the other indexed accounts as an additional limit,” he said. “Under the Securian proposal, any account with the same option budget will have the same option leverage limit.”

‘Could see it dragging on’

While six of ten subgroup members voted for the Securian fix, there remains support for a more “conservative” option, Anderson acknowledged. That option is represented in a letter from the Coalition of Concerned Insurance Professionals.

The coalition proposal grew out of comment letters authored by Sheryl Moore of Moore Market Intelligence and Bobby Samuelson of The Life Product Review. It now encompasses 12 “independent insurance professionals,” Samuelson told the subgroup.

He reminded regulators that the purpose of the original AG 49 was to “standardize the lookback” methodology used in the numerous proprietary indexes insurers are using. Many of those indexes include components that do not have enough performance history available. As a result, efforts to create a history is leading to flawed illustrations, critics claim.

“Every time we’ve been around to do regulation on this, the problem has always been the lookback,” Samuelson said. “That’s part of the reason why the coalition proposal goes all in on the fact that the lookback is flawed, and we should do a hedge budget-based approach. The other groups are taking a similar perspective by using the hedge budget as the basis for the illustrated rate.”

Samuelson sought to clarify perceptions that the coalition opposes the lookback. Not true, he said, but it should be part of an illustration that seeks to properly inform the consumer of the risk and reward.

“The difference is that the industry wants to show risk and reward using a level rate on the illustration,” Samuelson explained. “In other words, they want to show the reward and not the risk. That is the problem with using a lookback, which is inevitably variable. To show a level illustrated rate forever creates the concepts in the client’s mind of perpetual reward with no risk.

“That can also be levered into all sorts of product strategies that can be gamed to maximize illustrative performance, which is exactly why we’ve been through three rounds of these regulations.”

The NAIC adopted AG 49 in 2015, but insurers quickly got around it by offering IUL products with multipliers and bonuses. That led to AG 49-A, adopted in late 2020 after this LATF directive: “designs with multipliers or other enhancements should not illustrate better than non-multiplier designs.”

Time concerns

Anderson expressed concern that advancing the coalition proposal would not be a “quick fix” the subgroup desires.

“The coalition proposal is definitely on the table,” he said. “I understand there may not be much wording [changes], but there are going to be a ton of comments and a ton of issues coming up and I could just see it dragging on and we’ll never get to the core issue.”

In addition to the “quick fix” to AG 49-A, subgroup members are also toying with re-opening the overall Life Insurance Illustrations Model Regulation (#582). Creating regulation #582 was an acrimonious process that took years before the National Association of Insurance Commissioners adopted it in 1995.

The subgroup is accepting comments until Nov. 22 on which subsections of #582 to consider opening and concepts for draft revisions.

Samuelson and other supporters rejected the idea that the coalition fix cannot be done quickly.

“The coalition proposal presents no threat to indexed UL sales and will serve to further consumer understanding,” said Birny Birnbaum, executive director of the Center for Economic Justice. “We’re really puzzled why you would even consider a proposal to fix this problem from the companies that are causing the problem. I mean it’s like asking a bank robber to design a system to stop them from robbing the bank again.”

Read more: https://insurancenewsnet.com/innarticle/quick-fix-concept-for-iul-illustrations-advanced-with-some-dissent

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick Desrocher‘Quick fix’ concept for IUL illustrations advanced, with some dissent
read more

Jamie Hopkins: Why Debt Is ‘Powerful,’ Annuities Are ‘Underutilized’

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Jane Wollman Rusoff
November 14, 2022

Here’s a crisp and clear message to financial advisors from Jamie Hopkins, managing partner of wealth solutions at Carson Group:

“If you don’t really care about what you’re doing, you’re in the wrong business,” he tells ThinkAdvisor in an interview. “Define your ‘Why.’ Your ‘Why’ should make you cry.”

In his newest book, “Find Your Freedom: Financial Planning for a Life on Purpose” (Harriman House – Nov. 22, 2022), co-written with Ron Carson, founder and CEO of Carson Group, readers have the freedom, of course, to hop among the 26 chapters. But chances are they’ll want to take in this comprehensive, conversational tome from cover to cover.

It provides a trove of financial planning insights as well as the likely repercussions of failing to have a good financial plan.

In the interview, however, Hopkins maintains that there’s typically little need for an all-inclusive plan if, for example, you’re only in your 20s. Estate planning can come later.

Finance professor of practice at Creighton University’s Heider College of Business, Hopkins co-created the Retirement Income Certified Professional designation and developed additional educational materials for the American College of Financial Services’ Certified Financial Planner and Chartered Financial Consultant programs, among others.

In 2017, seven years after Hopkins earned a Juris Doctor degree from Villanova School of Law, The American Bar Association named him one of the top 40 young lawyers in the U.S.

In our conversation, he explores a number of financial planning concepts, including the use of debt as a powerful tool. He also talks about why he thinks annuities are “oversold and underutilized” and why the 4% rule isn’t a rule but “a withdrawal finding.”

ThinkAdvisor recently held a phone interview with Hopkins, who was candid in a brief assessment of financial advisors.

He would hire only “5% of the financial advisors out there,” he declares, and then offers reasons.

Here are highlights of our interview:

THINKADVIVSOR: How do you define “financial freedom”?

JAMIE HOPKINS: People need to define that for themselves. You have to start with understanding your relationship with money, where you want to go with it and who you want to be. Then work backwards toward what financial freedom means to you.

How can advisors take their own personal financial freedom to the next level?

Define your “Why.” I always say, “Your ‘Why’ should make you cry.” If you don’t really care about what you’re doing, you’re in the wrong business — whatever you’re doing in life.

I think most advisors should put their “Why” on their website. Do a video about your “Why.”

Figure out what you actually want to do as an advisor. Make sure you’re only focusing on doing the things that you want to do, whether that means partnering, finding the right tech tools or leaving the firm you’re with and going out on your own or joining someone else’s firm.

You don’t have to feel like you’re stuck in life by default.

What is the Carson “Find Your Freedom Planning Promise”?

It’s following a proven financial planning process that will get you to where you want to go.

Advisors need to help people understand the basics first — saving, income [and so on] — and then get more strategic about the decisions they ultimately have to make, like layering in legacy and more complex planning topics.

What keeps people from wanting to do a financial plan?

Everybody has parts of a financial plan. You might not put it all together [now] — and that’s OK. Not everything has to be wrapped up [at once].

You can be in a part of life where only pieces of a plan are in place because that’s what you need at that [particular] phase.

If you’re 26 years old, for instance, you don’t need to know what your legacy, estate planning and charitable [strategies] are yet.

But you have to align your planning with your objectives and goals. No one plan fits everybody.

To what extent are millennials and Gen Zs involved in financial planning?

It all depends on what phase of life you’re in and where you are at that stage, not how old you are.

The oldest millennials are in their 40s. They might even be thinking about retirement strategies. Some millennials in their 20s are millionaires.

However, most younger people are thinking about housing, managing debt and understanding their relationship with money.

[The last point] is a core part of what [advisors] used to skip over: The behavioral aspect of understanding your relationship with money is incredibly recent. It’s only been two years since that’s been added into CFP education.

And one thing we have to get a better understanding of is whether you’re a debt-averse person or a more risk-tolerant person.

How can “debt be a powerful planning tool that helps us open up possibilities in life that you wouldn’t have expected without it,” as you write?

Take a lesson from the best companies in the world: They almost all leverage debt to grow. Debt is a very powerful growth vehicle.

So you should always look at what [rates] you can borrow at and what you can leverage elsewhere. That should be an annual decision.

For Americans, the two biggest debt decisions are college education and buying a house. Also, you might have debt that comes in on your business side.

Any time you’re borrowing, you’re also making a decision as to how much to borrow vs. how much to invest.

Even if you’ve paid off your mortgage and you’re 62, you’re making an annual decision as to whether, for example, you should pay all taxes [with cash], refinance your mortgage or do a reverse mortgage.

Insurance is very important to a financial plan, you write: “Being without insurance is like having a steering wheel but no car.” But why do you need insurance if you’re investing in the market?

Insurance is often a risk-mitigation or transfer technique. Tax-free death benefits from life insurance can be a more efficient way to transfer wealth.

There are certain things that market returns can’t solve. For instance, no return can [provide] lifetime income.

Read more: https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2022/11/14/jamie-hopkins-how-to-help-clients-find-financial-freedom/

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherJamie Hopkins: Why Debt Is ‘Powerful,’ Annuities Are ‘Underutilized’
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Episode 170: The Future of Advice With Paul Blanco

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What will the future of face-to-face distribution look like in the coming years? Today, we talk with Paul Blanco, Founder and CEO of Barnum Financial, about the future of advisors, insurance agencies, wealth management and technology.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://barnumfinancialgroup.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulblanco/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
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[paul_tyler]: i this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show we’ve

2
00:00:06,667 –> 00:00:11,275
[paul_tyler]: got a really interesting guest on this
show i’ll tell you in a minute ramsey

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[paul_tyler]: how are you

4
00:00:12,600 –> 00:00:13,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: great always glad to be here

5
00:00:14,288 –> 00:00:17,954
[paul_tyler]: okay a lot of news coming out
on in plan annuities are you feeling really

6
00:00:18,014 –> 00:00:19,357
[paul_tyler]: bullish about that space right now

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00:00:19,700 –> 00:00:20,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: hundred percent

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00:00:20,978 –> 00:00:21,559
[paul_tyler]: unde per cent

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00:00:21,761 –> 00:00:21,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: bruno from canada you didn’t have an
election last night did you

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[bruno_caron]: it’s as if

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[ramsey_d_smith]: we’re

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in georgia

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[bruno_caron]: but

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00:00:31,731 –> 00:00:32,011
[ramsey_d_smith]: were still

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00:00:31,882 –> 00:00:32,002
[bruno_caron]: it’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: electing here in georgia

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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00:00:33,268 –> 00:00:33,829
[paul_tyler]: that’s right

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00:00:33,934 –> 00:00:34,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is going to

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00:00:34,330 –> 00:00:34,470
[paul_tyler]: it’s

23
00:00:34,355 –> 00:00:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: be a run

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[paul_tyler]: not

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[ramsey_d_smith]: off

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[paul_tyler]: over

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[ramsey_d_smith]: probably

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[paul_tyler]: with

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yeah

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[paul_tyler]: yeah so

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: so i think everybody probably needs a
little bit break from politics at this point

33
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[bruno_caron]: oh

34
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[paul_tyler]: as i think we all deserve and
so anyway with us today is an old

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[paul_tyler]: friend from you know way back when
another couple of companies ago um a guy

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[paul_tyler]: who almost needs no introduction if you’re
in this space but paul blanco who is

37
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[paul_tyler]: the c o and founder of barn
financial paul welcome

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00:01:09,858 –> 00:01:13,183
[paul_tyler]: ah well thank you paul you know
who know you know walking down a street

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00:01:13,223 –> 00:01:16,829
[paul_tyler]: and at a street cafe would pull
us back together so this is great so

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: for those who don’t know you know
aren’t like in the north east who tell

44
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[paul_tyler]: us about barnum financial what is it
you know size product focus you know etcetera

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

46
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

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[paul_tyler]: let’s see i knew you win and
even then your footprint was pretty enormous but

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[paul_tyler]: like where did this start so paul
you just got this big office and right

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[paul_tyler]: that’s that’s the back story

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so to talk a little bit about
that that evolution in the business you started

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[ramsey_d_smith]: out very insurance focused and really you
know there’s a there’s a lot of power

53
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[ramsey_d_smith]: in integrating the discussion with a client
you know the insurance discussion with a client

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[ramsey_d_smith]: with sort of a wholistic discussion around
planning and andndvcv sort of investment opportunities how

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[ramsey_d_smith]: did you how did you sort of
execute that because part of that is finding

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the right people part of that’s finding
the right platforms did you build did you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: buy tell us about that that entreprenerial
journey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:05:08,962 –> 00:05:11,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: that’s really interesting and that’s kind of
where my my follow up is how do

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[bruno_caron]: you marry the two how do you
marry the insurance and the investment and it’s

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[bruno_caron]: not just the products it’s also the
mentalities and everything that that comes that comes

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[bruno_caron]: with it i think everyone agrees that
it’s not one or the other you have

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[bruno_caron]: to have you have to have both
m how do you how do you convey

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[bruno_caron]: that message too your clients to the
audience to general public as to how the

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[bruno_caron]: two are interconnected and how to know
ultimately use both in terms of in terms

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[bruno_caron]: of planning

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00:08:20,168 –> 00:08:20,249
[paul_tyler]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah and maybe you know i give
you a question to go a little bit

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[paul_tyler]: more to the infrastructure you know we’re
living in a world of extremes and if

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[paul_tyler]: i ask you know people at some
of these conferences what’s the future tribution depend

85
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[paul_tyler]: on the conference one is okay it’s
all going to be roll ups acquisitions you

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[paul_tyler]: know i gonna we’re gonna create mega
agencies by buying these things up the other

87
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[paul_tyler]: hand will be now paul it’s all
digital you’re gonna be selling stuff on the

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[paul_tyler]: web we’re still going to figure the
stuff out talk to us about your view

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[paul_tyler]: you know where’s growth coming from here
and how does it work

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

93
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[ramsey_d_smith]: so then these are like internal internal
whole sailors for you sort of specific product

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[ramsey_d_smith]: specialists

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00:13:03,639 –> 00:13:03,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:13:07,212 –> 00:13:08,834
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m hm

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00:14:16,560 –> 00:14:16,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

101
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah so who do you see
is like your competitors are peers because as

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you as you talk about your business
i can see on one hand it could

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[ramsey_d_smith]: be it could be wirehouses because you’re
trying to bring that complete set of services

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in the way that they do it
could be it could be other as it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: could be lots of different things like
where do you you typically run into people

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i guess in terms of you know
you are competitively

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so you have

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in there just just so there’s henry’s
what hirnderis not not rich

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yet

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and then there’s and then there’s the
mass affluent and there’s high net worth you

120
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[ramsey_d_smith]: can cover all three of those categories
m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:16:46,989 –> 00:16:47,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah you know over the last couple
of episodes we had some really discussion good

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[paul_tyler]: discussions about in plan annuities you know
where where this will had secure act to

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[paul_tyler]: open

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: up some opportunities paul you’ve been in
this space in the work space for a

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[paul_tyler]: long time you mentioned you know the
change in you know being

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:17:06,669 –> 00:17:14,873
[paul_tyler]: able to communicate with people virtually what’s
happening in in your mind with you know

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[paul_tyler]: changing how people are working with the
opportunities or the changes in working with companies

132
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[paul_tyler]: to bring financial planning through their employ
or

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[bruno_caron]: yah

139
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yeah do you do any work
helping with setting up plans like setting up

140
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[ramsey_d_smith]: for one c plans

141
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

143
00:20:47,700 –> 00:20:48,540
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:21:05,566 –> 00:21:13,437
[bruno_caron]: so while we’re on that that topic
of inplananuities um obviously we talked about the

145
00:21:13,497 –> 00:21:18,061
[bruno_caron]: comprehensive nature of you know your firm
your business and your your

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00:21:18,099 –> 00:21:18,120
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

147
00:21:18,181 –> 00:21:18,762
[bruno_caron]: background

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00:21:20,349 –> 00:21:20,370
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

149
00:21:21,044 –> 00:21:25,451
[bruno_caron]: assets on their management that’s a fairly
fairly easy concept for all of us to

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00:21:25,551 –> 00:21:26,052
[bruno_caron]: understand

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00:21:27,336 –> 00:21:27,499
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:21:27,414 –> 00:21:32,883
[bruno_caron]: but how how do you generate income
how do you see income being generated through

153
00:21:33,324 –> 00:21:38,914
[bruno_caron]: um you know through retirement how do
you view it obviously in this in this

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00:21:38,994 –> 00:21:43,121
[bruno_caron]: particular environment where things have become a
little a little harder so

155
00:21:43,320 –> 00:21:43,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

156
00:21:44,924 –> 00:21:49,589
[bruno_caron]: how do you how do you advise
your clients to to you know decumulate and

157
00:21:50,410 –> 00:21:52,452
[bruno_caron]: generate income through through retirement

158
00:22:10,500 –> 00:22:10,763
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

159
00:22:22,200 –> 00:22:23,119
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:22:44,670 –> 00:22:48,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yah we

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00:23:10,748 –> 00:23:10,808
[paul_tyler]: ah

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00:23:22,538 –> 00:23:23,198
[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:23:26,887 –> 00:23:27,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

164
00:23:30,180 –> 00:23:30,424
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

165
00:24:07,948 –> 00:24:08,109
[paul_tyler]: yeah

166
00:24:08,010 –> 00:24:08,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

167
00:24:08,189 –> 00:24:12,336
[paul_tyler]: well you mentioned scale paul and i
think this is kind of an advantage of

168
00:24:12,436 –> 00:24:17,083
[paul_tyler]: scale because you know i ally have
five clients it’s going to be those are

169
00:24:17,524 –> 00:24:22,497
[paul_tyler]: to be some pretty empty tiles um
now i remember again back to you know

170
00:24:22,858 –> 00:24:27,480
[paul_tyler]: two thousand this is ramsey bruno i
won’t name names you can imagine

171
00:24:27,210 –> 00:24:27,334
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

172
00:24:27,580 –> 00:24:27,961
[paul_tyler]: paul this

173
00:24:27,900 –> 00:24:29,040
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

174
00:24:28,001 –> 00:24:33,510
[paul_tyler]: was god can you believe some some
agency manager wants to do his own thing

175
00:24:33,590 –> 00:24:39,660
[paul_tyler]: he’s got this software c m outside
company he wants to put in here and

176
00:24:39,720 –> 00:24:46,812
[paul_tyler]: not do what we want what’s it
called sales force you know so you’ve been

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00:24:47,253 –> 00:24:51,600
[paul_tyler]: you’ve been in sure tech before insure
tech is ed what kind of scale do

178
00:24:51,660 –> 00:24:57,770
[paul_tyler]: you have to have in order to
make those algorithm you know feed enough you

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00:24:57,831 –> 00:25:01,437
[paul_tyler]: know agents so that your calls to
make

180
00:25:15,720 –> 00:25:15,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:25:47,877 –> 00:25:48,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:25:53,880 –> 00:25:54,122
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

183
00:25:57,180 –> 00:25:57,990
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

184
00:26:14,019 –> 00:26:15,852
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

185
00:26:43,560 –> 00:26:47,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh

186
00:27:05,910 –> 00:27:06,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

187
00:27:13,023 –> 00:27:13,125
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

188
00:27:32,289 –> 00:27:32,310
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

189
00:27:48,542 –> 00:27:54,337
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah right so so i’ve got sort
of one one parting question because we’re pretty

190
00:27:54,357 –> 00:27:58,064
[ramsey_d_smith]: much at the unfortunately i would love
to have you back because it’s actually more

191
00:27:58,124 –> 00:28:02,531
[ramsey_d_smith]: to talk about here but you know
so you have you’ve got in a fantastic

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00:28:02,591 –> 00:28:07,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of growth growth goals you know
he said between now and twenty thirty m

193
00:28:08,681 –> 00:28:16,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul tyler had mentioned earlier of the
consolidation agregation we’re seeing in the business i

194
00:28:16,195 –> 00:28:17,698
[ramsey_d_smith]: think you’re still independent at this point

195
00:28:23,800 –> 00:28:23,961
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

196
00:28:39,751 –> 00:28:45,680
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i just it’s i can see
a world where you’re an acquirer or you

197
00:28:45,721 –> 00:28:49,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: can be either way sounds like with
the business you built you have a lot

198
00:28:49,347 –> 00:28:53,912
[ramsey_d_smith]: of option so um it’s probably a
bit of an impertinent question so i apologize

199
00:28:54,012 –> 00:28:59,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: but you know but very interested to
see you know how this progresses for you

200
00:28:59,698 –> 00:29:00,239
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the coming years

201
00:29:07,440 –> 00:29:08,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

202
00:29:19,479 –> 00:29:19,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

203
00:29:28,752 –> 00:29:28,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:29:37,448 –> 00:29:39,015
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:00,174 –> 00:30:00,454
[bruno_caron]: yeah

206
00:30:06,763 –> 00:30:06,903
[bruno_caron]: yeah

207
00:30:10,089 –> 00:30:10,798
[paul_tyler]: oh this is great

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00:30:10,814 –> 00:30:11,795
[bruno_caron]: paul tyler there’s a

209
00:30:11,819 –> 00:30:11,960
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:11,835 –> 00:30:15,438
[bruno_caron]: new podcast if i saw it correctly
coming up on

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00:30:15,758 –> 00:30:16,568
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:15,899 –> 00:30:17,320
[bruno_caron]: that exact topic if

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00:30:17,279 –> 00:30:17,420
[paul_tyler]: that’s

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00:30:17,480 –> 00:30:17,500
[bruno_caron]: i

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00:30:17,520 –> 00:30:17,741
[paul_tyler]: right

216
00:30:18,862 –> 00:30:19,502
[bruno_caron]: if i saw it right

217
00:30:20,849 –> 00:30:25,638
[paul_tyler]: the prime life you know i’ll send
you a link it’s were our first for

218
00:30:25,858 –> 00:30:31,951
[paul_tyler]: palante doing a little more on the
consumer side um you know now trying to

219
00:30:31,991 –> 00:30:35,204
[paul_tyler]: reach the sixty plus group so i’ll
send you link

220
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: yeah listen to hey it’s that’s you
know you never stopped learning write or experimenting

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[paul_tyler]: you know paul so

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00:31:09,969 –> 00:31:11,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

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00:31:18,750 –> 00:31:18,971
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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00:31:38,118 –> 00:31:41,484
[paul_tyler]: hey paul listen thank you so much
for your time you’re doing great stuff in

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00:31:41,524 –> 00:31:45,390
[paul_tyler]: the business and as ramsey said love
to have you back let’s

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00:31:45,804 –> 00:31:46,064
[bruno_caron]: yah

228
00:31:45,991 –> 00:31:51,380
[paul_tyler]: we’ll reach out and a lot more
to talk about bruno ramsey thanks so much

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00:31:51,680 –> 00:31:52,621
[paul_tyler]: and paul what’s

230
00:31:52,603 –> 00:31:52,743
[bruno_caron]: yah

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00:31:52,661 –> 00:31:56,566
[paul_tyler]: the best way for people to either
learn more about barnum or get in touch

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00:31:56,606 –> 00:32:00,518
[paul_tyler]: with you oh

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00:32:06,438 –> 00:32:07,982
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right listen thanks

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: everybody thanks for our listeners hey thanks
paul

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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00:32:15,188 –> 00:32:15,568
[paul_tyler]: hey thanks

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00:32:15,560 –> 00:32:16,309
[ramsey_d_smith]: much appreciated

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00:32:15,969 –> 00:32:16,870
[paul_tyler]: listen we really

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00:32:16,714 –> 00:32:16,895
[bruno_caron]: thank

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00:32:16,890 –> 00:32:16,970
[paul_tyler]: do

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00:32:16,935 –> 00:32:17,076
[bruno_caron]: you

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00:32:17,010 –> 00:32:23,076
[paul_tyler]: appreciate it thanks and listen join us
again next week for another episode of that

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00:32:23,156 –> 00:32:24,277
[paul_tyler]: annuity show thanks

 

 

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 170: The Future of Advice With Paul Blanco
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Episode 169: Should Interest Rate Changes Rewrite Retirement Product Recommendations with Dave Blanchett and Michael Finke

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For those of us in the business, it feels like interest rates have been rising every two weeks. Fixed rates and guaranteed income have gone up. However, other competing fixed income options have risen as well. How does this new environment reshape how we evaluate recommendations for our clients? We explore this topic and more with Michael Finke, Professor at The American College and David Blanchett, Head of Retirement Research at PGIM.

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:02,113 –> 00:00:06,062
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show get a

2
00:00:06,102 –> 00:00:10,051
[paul_tyler]: great great program some great guests bruno
welcome from canada

3
00:00:11,667 –> 00:00:13,210
[bruno_caron]: thank you good to be here

4
00:00:13,440 –> 00:00:13,842
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s your new

5
00:00:13,835 –> 00:00:13,938
[paul_tyler]: don

6
00:00:13,942 –> 00:00:14,184
[ramsey_d_smith]: office

7
00:00:13,999 –> 00:00:14,121
[paul_tyler]: hat

8
00:00:14,244 –> 00:00:14,485
[ramsey_d_smith]: bruno

9
00:00:15,354 –> 00:00:15,594
[bruno_caron]: it is

10
00:00:15,951 –> 00:00:16,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: nice

11
00:00:16,943 –> 00:00:17,206
[paul_tyler]: nice

12
00:00:17,116 –> 00:00:21,020
[bruno_caron]: people typically congratulate me on my plan
but you can do that it’s okay

13
00:00:20,953 –> 00:00:21,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: alright

14
00:00:23,214 –> 00:00:25,523
[paul_tyler]: all right ramsey tell us who do

15
00:00:25,461 –> 00:00:25,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: p

16
00:00:25,563 –> 00:00:27,550
[paul_tyler]: we have and what are we going
to talk about today

17
00:00:28,040 –> 00:00:32,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right paul thank you always glad
to be here so we are we’re very

18
00:00:32,206 –> 00:00:38,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: fortunate to be rejoined by two of
the most important voices in the retirement space

19
00:00:38,237 –> 00:00:39,719
[ramsey_d_smith]: david blanch shet and michael

20
00:00:39,403 –> 00:00:39,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

21
00:00:39,799 –> 00:00:42,203
[ramsey_d_smith]: fink so both of both of them
have we’ve been fortunate

22
00:00:42,103 –> 00:00:42,387
[paul_tyler]: oh

23
00:00:42,243 –> 00:00:44,607
[ramsey_d_smith]: to have them on the each of
them on the show at least once or

24
00:00:44,667 –> 00:00:50,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: twice and they can be seen very
frequently on linked in

25
00:00:50,173 –> 00:00:50,833
[paul_tyler]: yeah

26
00:00:50,337 –> 00:00:53,642
[ramsey_d_smith]: and in many other venues and in
webinars and and

27
00:00:53,803 –> 00:00:54,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

28
00:00:54,624 –> 00:00:55,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’ll hear at the end what

29
00:00:55,513 –> 00:00:55,754
[paul_tyler]: yeah

30
00:00:55,605 –> 00:00:57,929
[ramsey_d_smith]: the sort of heir next appearances will
be

31
00:00:58,003 –> 00:00:58,753
[paul_tyler]: yeah

32
00:00:59,191 –> 00:01:03,178
[ramsey_d_smith]: we we wanted to ring the back
on the show primarily because they’ve been posting

33
00:01:03,679 –> 00:01:09,509
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot lately about the different trends
in the space and so with that want

34
00:01:09,549 –> 00:01:14,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: to welcome david who is the head
of retirement research at p g i m

35
00:01:15,250 –> 00:01:20,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: and michael who is professor of wealth
and man both management rather at the american

36
00:01:20,939 –> 00:01:26,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: college of financial services so welcome back
to both you and let’s let’s just get

37
00:01:26,248 –> 00:01:28,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: into it you’ve posted on so many
things

38
00:01:29,314 –> 00:01:29,534
[bruno_caron]: yes

39
00:01:30,132 –> 00:01:33,836
[ramsey_d_smith]: what are the what are the two
or three areas that you think or getting

40
00:01:33,876 –> 00:01:33,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

41
00:01:33,937 –> 00:01:34,020
[bruno_caron]: ah

42
00:01:34,016 –> 00:01:37,519
[ramsey_d_smith]: most intense or should get the most
intense scrutiny right now in the retirement space

43
00:01:39,260 –> 00:01:40,011
[ramsey_d_smith]: david will start with you

44
00:01:40,732 –> 00:01:41,274
[david_blanchett]: but i was going to

45
00:01:41,305 –> 00:01:41,406
[michael_finke]: i’m

46
00:01:41,314 –> 00:01:41,495
[david_blanchett]: say you

47
00:01:41,446 –> 00:01:41,547
[michael_finke]: going

48
00:01:41,515 –> 00:01:41,595
[david_blanchett]: know

49
00:01:41,587 –> 00:01:41,627
[michael_finke]: to

50
00:01:41,635 –> 00:01:41,695
[david_blanchett]: the

51
00:01:41,667 –> 00:01:41,728
[michael_finke]: go

52
00:01:41,715 –> 00:01:41,916
[david_blanchett]: one thing

53
00:01:41,849 –> 00:01:41,909
[michael_finke]: and

54
00:01:41,936 –> 00:01:42,980
[david_blanchett]: that i’ve been

55
00:01:43,849 –> 00:01:45,019
[michael_finke]: ah

56
00:01:45,750 –> 00:01:46,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right

57
00:01:46,383 –> 00:01:48,373
[david_blanchett]: i gotta go first call on me
thank our plan

58
00:01:48,270 –> 00:01:48,512
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

59
00:01:48,278 –> 00:01:50,765
[michael_finke]: you’re just a knocking over each other
and the

60
00:01:51,420 –> 00:01:51,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

61
00:01:52,214 –> 00:01:52,355
[bruno_caron]: right

62
00:01:52,602 –> 00:01:52,702
[ramsey_d_smith]: all

63
00:01:52,649 –> 00:01:52,951
[michael_finke]: go ahead

64
00:01:52,802 –> 00:01:53,464
[ramsey_d_smith]: right sorry

65
00:01:53,192 –> 00:01:55,025
[michael_finke]: go ahead david i’m the more voracious
one

66
00:01:55,084 –> 00:01:55,390
[bruno_caron]: oh

67
00:01:55,412 –> 00:01:55,452
[david_blanchett]: so

68
00:01:55,513 –> 00:01:55,677
[paul_tyler]: ye

69
00:01:55,532 –> 00:01:56,513
[david_blanchett]: the one thing that i would just
say

70
00:01:56,520 –> 00:01:56,862
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

71
00:01:56,594 –> 00:01:57,575
[david_blanchett]: is that we’re taking about

72
00:01:57,553 –> 00:01:57,574
[bruno_caron]: m

73
00:01:57,595 –> 00:02:01,402
[david_blanchett]: this before we started is just the
impact that the rise and bonyiels are having

74
00:02:01,582 –> 00:02:01,702
[david_blanchett]: on

75
00:02:01,666 –> 00:02:01,811
[paul_tyler]: yeah

76
00:02:02,163 –> 00:02:05,929
[david_blanchett]: products across the net landscape just because
you know if you think about the way

77
00:02:06,009 –> 00:02:08,313
[david_blanchett]: that a lot of these products are
built it’s built using

78
00:02:08,563 –> 00:02:09,643
[paul_tyler]: oh

79
00:02:08,634 –> 00:02:14,063
[david_blanchett]: bonils’there’s more there but so when we’ve
seen this dramatic rise and rates there’s just

80
00:02:14,203 –> 00:02:14,584
[paul_tyler]: yeah

81
00:02:14,363 –> 00:02:17,809
[david_blanchett]: dramatic improvement and change and kind of
the efficacy of products and so

82
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

83
00:02:18,290 –> 00:02:19,973
[david_blanchett]: i did a lot of research about
like

84
00:02:20,293 –> 00:02:20,579
[paul_tyler]: oh

85
00:02:20,553 –> 00:02:23,478
[david_blanchett]: riles and fees and just a whole
host of products last year it’s kind of

86
00:02:23,518 –> 00:02:26,523
[david_blanchett]: irrelevant now like i need a kind
of dust off everything i used to do

87
00:02:26,684 –> 00:02:30,710
[david_blanchett]: because like the marginal value of a
lot of these a lot of these products

88
00:02:30,931 –> 00:02:32,052
[david_blanchett]: issued by life insures

89
00:02:32,173 –> 00:02:32,421
[paul_tyler]: yeah

90
00:02:32,173 –> 00:02:33,835
[david_blanchett]: really have i think a lot

91
00:02:33,779 –> 00:02:33,799
[paul_tyler]: i

92
00:02:34,015 –> 00:02:35,417
[david_blanchett]: better a lot

93
00:02:35,353 –> 00:02:36,081
[paul_tyler]: yeah

94
00:02:35,518 –> 00:02:36,619
[david_blanchett]: sexyerethan he

95
00:02:36,634 –> 00:02:36,654
[paul_tyler]: i

96
00:02:36,679 –> 00:02:37,040
[david_blanchett]: were say

97
00:02:37,050 –> 00:02:37,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

98
00:02:37,220 –> 00:02:37,721
[david_blanchett]: even a year ago

99
00:02:38,563 –> 00:02:39,673
[paul_tyler]: yeah

100
00:02:39,860 –> 00:02:40,143
[ramsey_d_smith]: michael

101
00:02:40,239 –> 00:02:44,627
[michael_finke]: david let’s talk about fixed inexinuities because
this is something that i’ve

102
00:02:44,542 –> 00:02:44,785
[david_blanchett]: yeah

103
00:02:44,647 –> 00:02:46,350
[michael_finke]: been giving some thought to recently

104
00:02:46,363 –> 00:02:46,631
[paul_tyler]: oh

105
00:02:46,430 –> 00:02:50,997
[michael_finke]: and that is that you and i
have boated on research on fa basically the

106
00:02:51,077 –> 00:02:53,606
[michael_finke]: long term for or man resembles

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: that of a corporate

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: bond

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: over time it is we both have
discussed the fact that he is are in

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[michael_finke]: some sense like a bond substitute within
a portfolio this year really illustrated a unique

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[michael_finke]: aspect of f but i don’t think
people really

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: have given enough thought to and that
is that although they

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: capture much of that term premium and
a little bit of the credit premium over

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[michael_finke]: time that you would get from corporate
bonds they don’t suffer the same losses the

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[michael_finke]: corporate bond suffer so let’s just take
a moment and reflect on how well for

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[michael_finke]: example

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: the long term corporate

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: bond van guard f has

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: done in two thousand twenty two if

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: at the very beginning of the year
you decided hey interestrats are really low i’m

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[michael_finke]: going to try to eke out a
little bit of extra return for my bond

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: portfolio by taking term risk maybe also
gonna take a little bit of credit risk

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[michael_finke]: down thirty per cent in fact that
t f is down down more than thirty

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[michael_finke]: per cent and two thousand twenty two

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: if you

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: had instead decided to use a tea
as a bond alternative the guarantee would have

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[michael_finke]: looked similar to the expected return on
those bond t f but

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: you have that principal protection aspect now
why is it that you get the principal

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[michael_finke]: protection aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michael_finke]: well the insurance company is investing in
those bonds and so the insurance

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: company in its general count has experienced
a mark to market loss in that

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[paul_tyler]: as

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[michael_finke]: bond portfolio

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: that you don’t have to

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: bear in fact

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: the insurance company has taken some of
that volatility

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: of the bond portfolio off your plate
while still

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: offering in the long term similar performance
the bond portion of your portfolio that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: fact that the insurance company is willing
to bear that risk

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[paul_tyler]: a

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[michael_finke]: and not transfer it to you as
the holder of the fixed in

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: extenuity that is a significant portfoli o
benefit and incorporating f

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: s versus using um you know using
them as a substitute for longer duration bonds

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[michael_finke]: than a portfolio

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[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s been i will tell you
this has been

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[michael_finke]: it

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: a wild ride and even if i
looked at you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: know what was the

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[bruno_caron]: ay

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[paul_tyler]: story the first or second

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

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[paul_tyler]: quarter versus third and fourth

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h

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[paul_tyler]: you know david michel has been so
different you know a lot of a lot

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[paul_tyler]: of products put in as you know
low volatility industries sort of do even the

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[paul_tyler]: best or the best hey we’re goin
t give you a steady return or better

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[paul_tyler]: then the market over a period of
time and not provide those bumps now of

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[paul_tyler]: course the markets were very be very
differently you know in the last eighteen eighteen

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[paul_tyler]: months going into sort of first or
second quarter because the most volatile stocks were

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[paul_tyler]: the ones that were producing biggest returns
they were taking out a lot of these

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[paul_tyler]: these ball control so i personally took
a lot calls and chats from from clients

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[paul_tyler]: who started to look at the statement
he said wait a second s m p

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[paul_tyler]: s gone up this much and this
much you’re only giving me this much and

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[paul_tyler]: we’re all sort of rubbing our hands
together saying what are we going to do

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[paul_tyler]: now the minute the market crashed michael
those calls stopped and in fact i know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[paul_tyler]: go on a bike ride and find
somebody i know from a long time ago

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[paul_tyler]: says paul i love my annuity

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: i love my annuity of the market
going down so it really has reenforced huge

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[paul_tyler]: you know part of the value prop
of a fixed and eccinuity i guess my

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[paul_tyler]: question will be is this temporary

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: or is this you know a more
permanent shift than how

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: people are looking at these products

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[paul_tyler]: david

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[ramsey_d_smith]: mean

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[paul_tyler]: what’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: what

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[paul_tyler]: your

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[ramsey_d_smith]: do you

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[paul_tyler]: what’s your yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead

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[david_blanchett]: i think it depends upon where rates
headed you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: i have have no clue if you
told me

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[paul_tyler]: the

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[david_blanchett]: we’d have rats where they are right
now a year ago i would have laughed

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[david_blanchett]: in your

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: face like that’s that’s absurd i think
that the one thing that i think is

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[david_blanchett]: interesting right now is this is to
michael’s point is like people are

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: really negative about surrender penalties and

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: things like that well insures are as
long as the insure can hold those bonds

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[david_blanchett]: that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: they use to hedge he risk to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: maturity that’s okay right

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: are like like you know enders we
they’rerally not like they allow individuals to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[david_blanchett]: have access to certain premiums

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: they couldn’t access

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[david_blanchett]: otherwise so know michael is talking about
fixing news what about

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[paul_tyler]: i

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[david_blanchett]: a mica i mean a mica is
just like a bond that you know maybe

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[david_blanchett]: s offering or four percent

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: it didn’t get marked to market so
i think that you know a lot of

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[david_blanchett]: the aspects people might not like love
about annuities historically are really maybe going to

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[david_blanchett]: change i hope we’re in a a
longer rate environment for ever becase it’s a

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[david_blanchett]: lot of a lot of really cool
products lot of interesting

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[michael_finke]: ye

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[david_blanchett]: innovation moving forward that we wouldn’t have
if we’re in a lower ate environment

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[bruno_caron]: hey while we’re on

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[michael_finke]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: that topic david can you discuss a
little bit about

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: the value of

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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[bruno_caron]: the lifetime income features on every single
one of those vehicles and the impact that

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[bruno_caron]: the market has had on

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[michael_finke]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: those particular on those particular writers and
benefits

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[david_blanchett]: so it’s complicated right so i think
that like certain certain annuities that provide live

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[david_blanchett]: time income more market responsive so like
sp is i’ve got a piece

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:08:00,066 –> 00:08:03,511
[david_blanchett]: of research in working rghtnowcanact you know
like looking at like how pay out rat

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00:08:03,652 –> 00:08:05,795
[david_blanchett]: fespesandds evolve over time like

262
00:08:05,683 –> 00:08:05,931
[paul_tyler]: yes

263
00:08:05,855 –> 00:08:06,697
[david_blanchett]: very market responsive

264
00:08:06,313 –> 00:08:06,613
[paul_tyler]: yeah

265
00:08:06,757 –> 00:08:10,042
[david_blanchett]: right you know other products maybe a
little bit less but like collectively it should

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00:08:10,062 –> 00:08:12,486
[david_blanchett]: all go up now what’s interesting about
about the

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:08:12,547 –> 00:08:16,894
[david_blanchett]: value of guaranteed income is that it
actually it’s worth the higher interest rates are

269
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[david_blanchett]: versus self annuitizing right because you can
actually generate more income from just holding tips

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[david_blanchett]: today just for example right but the
thing is i think that that

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[michael_finke]: yes

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00:08:24,587 –> 00:08:29,475
[david_blanchett]: is actually outweighed by the behavioral benefit
that you get today from buying annuities that

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00:08:29,655 –> 00:08:31,799
[david_blanchett]: pay out much higher i think a
lot of people were saying i’m going to

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[david_blanchett]: wait to buy an annuity until rates
are higher you know when michael and i

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[david_blanchett]: were telling everyone is telling a story
they’re actually worth more when rates are lower

276
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[david_blanchett]: no one could buy them but i
think now we have actually entered a space

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[david_blanchett]: where technically

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: technically the value of the guarantee is
less but there’s less behavioral barriers to actually

280
00:08:47,586 –> 00:08:51,862
[david_blanchett]: buy the annuity because because payorachare is
so much more attractive ye

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00:08:51,240 –> 00:08:51,930
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:08:53,530 –> 00:08:54,531
[michael_finke]: i mean the other aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: no

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[michael_finke]: bruno is if you would have retired
as a lot of people did at the

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[michael_finke]: end of two thousand twenty one

286
00:09:00,463 –> 00:09:00,978
[paul_tyler]: ye

287
00:09:00,601 –> 00:09:02,224
[michael_finke]: and you had some sort of a
lifetime

288
00:09:02,283 –> 00:09:02,465
[paul_tyler]: yeah

289
00:09:02,324 –> 00:09:03,366
[michael_finke]: income benefit

290
00:09:03,433 –> 00:09:05,323
[paul_tyler]: yeah

291
00:09:04,027 –> 00:09:05,329
[michael_finke]: on a variable note product

292
00:09:05,563 –> 00:09:05,885
[paul_tyler]: oh

293
00:09:05,690 –> 00:09:05,930
[michael_finke]: then

294
00:09:06,810 –> 00:09:07,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

295
00:09:07,092 –> 00:09:09,575
[michael_finke]: imagine someone who didn’t have that benefit

296
00:09:09,450 –> 00:09:09,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

297
00:09:10,056 –> 00:09:10,517
[michael_finke]: how they would

298
00:09:10,543 –> 00:09:11,323
[paul_tyler]: yeah

299
00:09:10,577 –> 00:09:12,870
[michael_finke]: be thinking about what to withdraw

300
00:09:13,003 –> 00:09:13,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

301
00:09:13,050 –> 00:09:16,095
[michael_finke]: from their investment tooartfolio over the course
of two thousand twenty

302
00:09:15,943 –> 00:09:16,603
[paul_tyler]: yeah

303
00:09:16,176 –> 00:09:16,316
[michael_finke]: two

304
00:09:17,053 –> 00:09:17,356
[paul_tyler]: oh

305
00:09:17,077 –> 00:09:20,623
[michael_finke]: if their investments are down by twenty
per cent and they have already been

306
00:09:20,623 –> 00:09:21,313
[paul_tyler]: yeah

307
00:09:20,683 –> 00:09:22,246
[michael_finke]: withdrawing save a million dollar

308
00:09:22,063 –> 00:09:22,753
[paul_tyler]: oh

309
00:09:22,326 –> 00:09:26,358
[michael_finke]: portfolio you started with a million box
you know maybe now you

310
00:09:26,400 –> 00:09:26,721
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

311
00:09:26,418 –> 00:09:30,841
[michael_finke]: have seven hundred and seventy five thousand
dollars maybe laugh you hoped that you could

312
00:09:30,921 –> 00:09:33,425
[michael_finke]: withdraw fifty thousand dollars a year from
your million dollar

313
00:09:33,210 –> 00:09:34,260
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

314
00:09:33,465 –> 00:09:39,776
[michael_finke]: portfolio now you’re significantly lower the risk
of withdrawing that fifty thousand dollars a year

315
00:09:39,916 –> 00:09:43,582
[michael_finke]: is significantly higher than it was at
the beginning of the year will you cut

316
00:09:43,682 –> 00:09:47,449
[michael_finke]: back well you go back now to
forty five thousand or forty thousand dollars thanks

317
00:09:47,569 –> 00:09:50,073
[michael_finke]: the true risk of not having that
income benefit

318
00:09:49,980 –> 00:09:50,221
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

319
00:09:50,133 –> 00:09:51,175
[michael_finke]: if you have the income benefit

320
00:09:50,893 –> 00:09:51,216
[paul_tyler]: yeah

321
00:09:51,215 –> 00:09:52,798
[michael_finke]: you know have to worry about it
i’m just going to

322
00:09:52,813 –> 00:09:53,115
[paul_tyler]: oh

323
00:09:52,838 –> 00:09:53,178
[michael_finke]: keep with

324
00:09:53,280 –> 00:09:53,502
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

325
00:09:53,539 –> 00:09:57,240
[michael_finke]: fifty thousand dollars from that investment portfolio
in the face

326
00:09:57,103 –> 00:09:57,431
[paul_tyler]: yeah

327
00:09:57,380 –> 00:10:02,388
[michael_finke]: of whatever head head wins i’m you
know experiencing all investors are experiencing and

328
00:10:02,328 –> 00:10:02,492
[paul_tyler]: yes

329
00:10:02,448 –> 00:10:06,295
[michael_finke]: it may mean that i deplete my
account faster but that’s okay that’s what that

330
00:10:06,335 –> 00:10:09,400
[michael_finke]: money is there for and that’s why
i also think it’s in ably important at

331
00:10:09,420 –> 00:10:13,787
[michael_finke]: the beginning of retirement to establish how
much of your portfolio you want to use

332
00:10:13,847 –> 00:10:17,694
[michael_finke]: for life style because then you don’t
feel bad about the fact that you’ve depleted

333
00:10:17,734 –> 00:10:20,759
[michael_finke]: the account if you have a lifetime
income benefit it’s just part of the did

334
00:10:20,819 –> 00:10:24,266
[michael_finke]: you and the question is you know
if you’re not you don’t have that then

335
00:10:24,327 –> 00:10:28,295
[michael_finke]: if it what does that imply in
terms of life style volatility

336
00:10:28,140 –> 00:10:28,860
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:10:28,355 –> 00:10:29,558
[michael_finke]: you have to be very flexible

338
00:10:31,744 –> 00:10:32,625
[bruno_caron]: i mean that makes

339
00:10:32,940 –> 00:10:33,223
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

340
00:10:33,006 –> 00:10:36,011
[bruno_caron]: a lot of sense i mean the
two of you have very vocal on the

341
00:10:36,331 –> 00:10:43,303
[bruno_caron]: sequence of return risk which is basically
what you just what you just explain how

342
00:10:43,804 –> 00:10:49,009
[bruno_caron]: how should you new retires view this
this risk in the light

343
00:10:49,050 –> 00:10:49,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

344
00:10:49,169 –> 00:10:51,912
[bruno_caron]: of you know this new economical context

345
00:10:53,646 –> 00:10:53,727
[paul_tyler]: ah

346
00:10:54,562 –> 00:10:56,766
[david_blanchett]: well i think we’ll be able to
take the answer to that about thirty years

347
00:10:56,806 –> 00:10:57,047
[david_blanchett]: from now

348
00:10:57,013 –> 00:10:57,617
[paul_tyler]: uh

349
00:10:57,087 –> 00:10:57,688
[david_blanchett]: right i think that there’s

350
00:10:57,630 –> 00:10:57,650
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

351
00:10:57,708 –> 00:10:58,208
[david_blanchett]: been a lot of great

352
00:10:58,222 –> 00:10:58,243
[paul_tyler]: h

353
00:10:58,269 –> 00:10:58,549
[david_blanchett]: studies

354
00:10:58,375 –> 00:10:58,537
[bruno_caron]: that’s

355
00:10:58,609 –> 00:11:00,352
[david_blanchett]: done using historical long term talking about

356
00:11:00,309 –> 00:11:00,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

357
00:11:00,372 –> 00:11:00,612
[david_blanchett]: you know

358
00:11:00,635 –> 00:11:00,817
[bruno_caron]: hello

359
00:11:00,660 –> 00:11:00,964
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

360
00:11:00,853 –> 00:11:01,933
[paul_tyler]: oh

361
00:11:00,973 –> 00:11:03,557
[david_blanchett]: i mean here’s the man we don’t
know we don’t know where markets

362
00:11:03,390 –> 00:11:04,080
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

363
00:11:03,597 –> 00:11:05,841
[david_blanchett]: are head i en maybe michael does
because he’s like really smart

364
00:11:06,106 –> 00:11:06,127
[paul_tyler]: i

365
00:11:06,282 –> 00:11:06,643
[david_blanchett]: i don’t know

366
00:11:06,604 –> 00:11:07,027
[bruno_caron]: oh

367
00:11:06,853 –> 00:11:07,843
[paul_tyler]: oh

368
00:11:07,023 –> 00:11:07,925
[david_blanchett]: and so what if this is just

369
00:11:07,933 –> 00:11:07,954
[bruno_caron]: h

370
00:11:07,965 –> 00:11:08,926
[david_blanchett]: the beginning what if what if

371
00:11:09,013 –> 00:11:09,613
[paul_tyler]: yeah

372
00:11:09,027 –> 00:11:10,249
[david_blanchett]: equities just go down for a

373
00:11:10,303 –> 00:11:11,476
[paul_tyler]: ye

374
00:11:10,309 –> 00:11:12,953
[david_blanchett]: decade right like this literally could be
the

375
00:11:13,119 –> 00:11:13,140
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

376
00:11:13,133 –> 00:11:17,320
[david_blanchett]: perfect post your child for sequence risk
and that bonds are down stocks are down

377
00:11:17,380 –> 00:11:21,247
[david_blanchett]: inflations of can’t pick a worse environment
like okay there’ve been periods where

378
00:11:20,970 –> 00:11:21,990
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

379
00:11:21,688 –> 00:11:25,374
[david_blanchett]: sixty forty portfolio does has done worse
but it’s hard to find an environment where

380
00:11:25,474 –> 00:11:28,018
[david_blanchett]: inflation has been where it is right
now and stocks

381
00:11:27,819 –> 00:11:27,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

382
00:11:28,058 –> 00:11:29,601
[david_blanchett]: and bonds are both down so i
think that

383
00:11:29,893 –> 00:11:30,787
[paul_tyler]: yeah

384
00:11:30,442 –> 00:11:33,067
[david_blanchett]: to me one thing i have to
this is kind of a check i think

385
00:11:33,107 –> 00:11:34,128
[david_blanchett]: for a lot of retires

386
00:11:34,153 –> 00:11:35,293
[paul_tyler]: yeah

387
00:11:34,208 –> 00:11:36,472
[david_blanchett]: where you know maybe if you haven’t
enjoyed

388
00:11:36,211 –> 00:11:36,354
[michael_finke]: yes

389
00:11:36,512 –> 00:11:39,778
[david_blanchett]: your experience so far things would always
get worse i’m not convinced that you

390
00:11:39,779 –> 00:11:39,800
[paul_tyler]: a

391
00:11:39,818 –> 00:11:42,582
[david_blanchett]: know normally i would say we’ll stay
the course but i don’t know only i

392
00:11:42,623 –> 00:11:42,883
[david_blanchett]: do know

393
00:11:42,819 –> 00:11:42,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

394
00:11:42,923 –> 00:11:44,826
[david_blanchett]: is that you know if you’re an
advisor out there listening

395
00:11:44,940 –> 00:11:45,247
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

396
00:11:45,227 –> 00:11:47,230
[david_blanchett]: you’ve got clients that have not enjoyed
you know

397
00:11:47,113 –> 00:11:47,863
[paul_tyler]: yeah

398
00:11:47,330 –> 00:11:50,876
[david_blanchett]: twenty twenty two so far maybe it’s
time to ask this question well is it

399
00:11:50,936 –> 00:11:52,819
[david_blanchett]: worth insuring part of what’s left

400
00:11:53,217 –> 00:11:53,237
[paul_tyler]: a

401
00:11:53,260 –> 00:11:58,249
[david_blanchett]: to insure things you get worse that
my clients have locked in now today a

402
00:11:58,309 –> 00:12:00,172
[david_blanchett]: lot higher income right so there is
this effect

403
00:11:59,893 –> 00:12:00,973
[paul_tyler]: oh

404
00:12:00,212 –> 00:12:01,314
[david_blanchett]: where if you buy bonds you

405
00:12:01,273 –> 00:12:01,963
[paul_tyler]: yeah

406
00:12:01,374 –> 00:12:01,835
[david_blanchett]: kind of hedge

407
00:12:01,680 –> 00:12:01,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

408
00:12:01,895 –> 00:12:05,360
[david_blanchett]: the income and that when bonds go
down interest payots go up

409
00:12:05,985 –> 00:12:06,086
[paul_tyler]: ah

410
00:12:06,202 –> 00:12:07,964
[david_blanchett]: now as the time it’s worth reassessing

411
00:12:07,874 –> 00:12:08,035
[paul_tyler]: yeah

412
00:12:08,925 –> 00:12:10,788
[david_blanchett]: is a investment driven strategy working

413
00:12:10,825 –> 00:12:11,736
[paul_tyler]: yeah

414
00:12:10,948 –> 00:12:12,870
[david_blanchett]: if not what other options are out
there

415
00:12:13,990 –> 00:12:15,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: so how are your various audiences

416
00:12:15,804 –> 00:12:15,968
[michael_finke]: yeah

417
00:12:16,153 –> 00:12:16,903
[paul_tyler]: yeah

418
00:12:16,372 –> 00:12:17,533
[ramsey_d_smith]: responding to that so

419
00:12:17,593 –> 00:12:17,975
[paul_tyler]: yeah

420
00:12:18,014 –> 00:12:19,135
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know you both you

421
00:12:19,333 –> 00:12:19,534
[paul_tyler]: oh

422
00:12:19,335 –> 00:12:23,018
[ramsey_d_smith]: re are out speaking at conference s
you’ve got webinars

423
00:12:24,253 –> 00:12:24,853
[paul_tyler]: yeah

424
00:12:24,960 –> 00:12:25,421
[ramsey_d_smith]: typically

425
00:12:25,235 –> 00:12:25,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

426
00:12:25,721 –> 00:12:27,885
[ramsey_d_smith]: like the composition of those audiences

427
00:12:27,523 –> 00:12:27,807
[paul_tyler]: yeah

428
00:12:27,965 –> 00:12:28,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: is it more

429
00:12:29,263 –> 00:12:30,463
[paul_tyler]: yeah

430
00:12:30,129 –> 00:12:31,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: insurance agents is it more

431
00:12:32,083 –> 00:12:32,345
[paul_tyler]: yeah

432
00:12:32,454 –> 00:12:34,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: is it more fenuciadvisors

433
00:12:33,900 –> 00:12:34,062
[paul_tyler]: yeah

434
00:12:35,950 –> 00:12:39,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: who are the sort of the whore
the various consistent with constituencies you talked to

435
00:12:39,540 –> 00:12:44,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: and how are they responding to these
to these changes anyway i assume i sum

436
00:12:44,382 –> 00:12:44,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: it comes

437
00:12:44,570 –> 00:12:44,953
[michael_finke]: ramsey

438
00:12:44,682 –> 00:12:45,003
[ramsey_d_smith]: out in the q

439
00:12:45,114 –> 00:12:45,255
[michael_finke]: just

440
00:12:45,224 –> 00:12:45,264
[ramsey_d_smith]: n

441
00:12:45,336 –> 00:12:45,356
[michael_finke]: a

442
00:12:45,344 –> 00:12:45,364
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

443
00:12:45,396 –> 00:12:45,719
[michael_finke]: week and a

444
00:12:45,705 –> 00:12:45,865
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

445
00:12:45,779 –> 00:12:46,202
[michael_finke]: half ago

446
00:12:47,108 –> 00:12:47,228
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

447
00:12:47,709 –> 00:12:53,347
[michael_finke]: i presented two presentations at napa which
is a fee only adviser conference

448
00:12:53,361 –> 00:12:53,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: yep

449
00:12:54,109 –> 00:12:59,202
[michael_finke]: i presented at napa maybe four years
ago i had some similar messageting in both

450
00:12:59,262 –> 00:13:03,630
[michael_finke]: presentations and i will tell you there
has been a sea change and openness towards

451
00:13:03,710 –> 00:13:05,633
[michael_finke]: the use of annuities among

452
00:13:05,652 –> 00:13:05,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:13:06,013 –> 00:13:06,474
[michael_finke]: fee only

454
00:13:06,459 –> 00:13:06,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

455
00:13:06,594 –> 00:13:08,518
[michael_finke]: advisers there’s an increasing

456
00:13:08,109 –> 00:13:08,130
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

457
00:13:08,598 –> 00:13:11,683
[michael_finke]: recogna and that if they’re going to
be a fiduciary they at least have to

458
00:13:11,723 –> 00:13:14,668
[michael_finke]: consider the use of annuities it’s not
just something that they can

459
00:13:14,739 –> 00:13:14,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

460
00:13:14,748 –> 00:13:19,055
[michael_finke]: exclude and feel like they’re always going
to be making a decision in the benefit

461
00:13:19,376 –> 00:13:24,524
[michael_finke]: of the client by exclude inganuities um
you know and then i also see statements

462
00:13:24,805 –> 00:13:30,194
[michael_finke]: such as i was just going on
line to a certain famous investment advisors site

463
00:13:30,715 –> 00:13:31,316
[michael_finke]: and he had

464
00:13:31,200 –> 00:13:31,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

465
00:13:31,376 –> 00:13:36,431
[michael_finke]: to quote on his site that there’s
nothing that you can do with annuities that

466
00:13:36,591 –> 00:13:39,922
[michael_finke]: i can’t do with investments and there
is not

467
00:13:39,962 –> 00:13:40,063
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

468
00:13:39,982 –> 00:13:44,496
[michael_finke]: a single economist who studies retirement income
planning who would agree with that state and

469
00:13:44,473 –> 00:13:44,696
[paul_tyler]: yeah

470
00:13:44,557 –> 00:13:45,910
[michael_finke]: it’s just demonstrably

471
00:13:45,343 –> 00:13:45,666
[paul_tyler]: yeah

472
00:13:45,789 –> 00:13:45,810
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

473
00:13:46,030 –> 00:13:46,390
[michael_finke]: false

474
00:13:46,736 –> 00:13:46,837
[paul_tyler]: it

475
00:13:47,152 –> 00:13:48,213
[michael_finke]: that attitude

476
00:13:47,944 –> 00:13:48,144
[bruno_caron]: yeah

477
00:13:48,514 –> 00:13:49,175
[michael_finke]: pervaded

478
00:13:49,355 –> 00:13:49,436
[paul_tyler]: ah

479
00:13:49,456 –> 00:13:49,736
[michael_finke]: i think

480
00:13:49,950 –> 00:13:50,191
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

481
00:13:50,197 –> 00:13:50,279
[paul_tyler]: ah

482
00:13:50,437 –> 00:13:50,998
[michael_finke]: this industry

483
00:13:50,743 –> 00:13:54,253
[paul_tyler]: yeah

484
00:13:51,078 –> 00:13:52,661
[michael_finke]: in many cases especially with the only

485
00:13:52,663 –> 00:13:52,804
[bruno_caron]: yeah

486
00:13:52,741 –> 00:13:56,487
[michael_finke]: industry that attitude has gone away as
far as i am concerned you know i’m

487
00:13:56,527 –> 00:14:00,254
[michael_finke]: not giving these intations i’m seeing a
new level of open it and it is

488
00:14:00,514 –> 00:14:04,140
[michael_finke]: really reassuring to see i think you
know both david and i come from a

489
00:14:04,220 –> 00:14:06,203
[michael_finke]: background where we have

490
00:14:06,043 –> 00:14:06,853
[paul_tyler]: yeah

491
00:14:06,324 –> 00:14:09,229
[michael_finke]: worked with investment advisors who are compensated

492
00:14:09,241 –> 00:14:09,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

493
00:14:09,309 –> 00:14:10,811
[michael_finke]: they on sieve we do

494
00:14:10,869 –> 00:14:10,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

495
00:14:10,891 –> 00:14:16,120
[michael_finke]: have a very fiduciary mind set the
word but we want to make sure that

496
00:14:16,441 –> 00:14:20,307
[michael_finke]: when advisors are making decisions that they’re
making decisions that are going to be in

497
00:14:20,347 –> 00:14:24,193
[michael_finke]: the best interest of it clint and
we’ve been arguing obviously for a long time

498
00:14:24,274 –> 00:14:26,016
[michael_finke]: that getting rid of this ideosandcradic

499
00:14:25,693 –> 00:14:26,773
[paul_tyler]: yeah

500
00:14:26,157 –> 00:14:30,223
[michael_finke]: engevity risk is an important part of
retirement income planning people can live better if

501
00:14:30,264 –> 00:14:36,212
[michael_finke]: they do it that way i’m seeing
a change frankly it’s reassuring and it’s great

502
00:14:36,293 –> 00:14:39,897
[michael_finke]: that the message is getting out there
but it’s also a message that needs to

503
00:14:39,957 –> 00:14:45,822
[michael_finke]: be couch and it’s something that you
know i think the insurance industry and i’m

504
00:14:45,862 –> 00:14:46,744
[michael_finke]: sure we’ve talked

505
00:14:46,634 –> 00:14:48,853
[paul_tyler]: right

506
00:14:46,784 –> 00:14:50,211
[michael_finke]: about this in the past but to
the extent that there can

507
00:14:50,203 –> 00:14:52,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

508
00:14:50,272 –> 00:14:54,479
[michael_finke]: be consistency in terms of sale practices
and messaging

509
00:14:54,330 –> 00:14:54,651
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

510
00:14:54,939 –> 00:14:56,422
[michael_finke]: i’m also seeing in the insurance

511
00:14:56,370 –> 00:14:56,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

512
00:14:56,462 –> 00:15:00,128
[michael_finke]: industry that they are hiring people who
deal with these types of advisors who are

513
00:15:00,168 –> 00:15:05,617
[michael_finke]: really or on how to use annuity
product efficiently for a client but i think

514
00:15:05,637 –> 00:15:12,088
[michael_finke]: that the industry as a whole really
has harmed itself in many ways by not

515
00:15:12,228 –> 00:15:16,033
[michael_finke]: rain and some of the more abusive
sales practices that we continue to see and

516
00:15:16,694 –> 00:15:19,738
[michael_finke]: it’s going to continue to color people’s
impressions of the industry

517
00:15:21,113 –> 00:15:23,698
[david_blanchett]: i mean so i would say i’m
seeing this as michael and

518
00:15:23,803 –> 00:15:24,063
[paul_tyler]: oh

519
00:15:23,818 –> 00:15:24,880
[david_blanchett]: the one point that i make to

520
00:15:24,832 –> 00:15:24,933
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

521
00:15:25,501 –> 00:15:26,302
[david_blanchett]: people when i talk about

522
00:15:26,494 –> 00:15:27,394
[bruno_caron]: yeah

523
00:15:26,502 –> 00:15:26,663
[david_blanchett]: anne

524
00:15:26,520 –> 00:15:26,932
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

525
00:15:26,593 –> 00:15:26,834
[paul_tyler]: yeah

526
00:15:26,763 –> 00:15:28,145
[david_blanchett]: use is like i’m not suggesting that

527
00:15:28,204 –> 00:15:28,466
[bruno_caron]: oh

528
00:15:28,205 –> 00:15:28,566
[david_blanchett]: all of your

529
00:15:28,620 –> 00:15:29,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

530
00:15:28,626 –> 00:15:29,868
[david_blanchett]: clients need an annuity

531
00:15:29,944 –> 00:15:30,145
[bruno_caron]: yeah

532
00:15:29,948 –> 00:15:31,471
[david_blanchett]: or maybe it’s less than like five
percent

533
00:15:31,723 –> 00:15:32,353
[paul_tyler]: oh

534
00:15:31,751 –> 00:15:33,274
[david_blanchett]: but it’s not zero and i think
that far

535
00:15:33,278 –> 00:15:33,298
[paul_tyler]: i

536
00:15:33,374 –> 00:15:34,295
[david_blanchett]: too many advisors

537
00:15:33,973 –> 00:15:35,173
[paul_tyler]: oh

538
00:15:34,396 –> 00:15:37,621
[david_blanchett]: that are doing retirement income planning is

539
00:15:37,560 –> 00:15:37,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

540
00:15:38,142 –> 00:15:38,222
[david_blanchett]: the

541
00:15:38,224 –> 00:15:38,944
[bruno_caron]: oh

542
00:15:38,282 –> 00:15:39,163
[david_blanchett]: number of their clients

543
00:15:39,060 –> 00:15:40,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

544
00:15:39,184 –> 00:15:41,748
[david_blanchett]: that have any kind of product that
provides guaranteed lifetime

545
00:15:41,533 –> 00:15:41,793
[paul_tyler]: yeah

546
00:15:41,828 –> 00:15:44,553
[david_blanchett]: income is zero and so i think
the goal to kind of get

547
00:15:44,593 –> 00:15:44,917
[paul_tyler]: yeah

548
00:15:44,613 –> 00:15:49,341
[david_blanchett]: them to kind of more actively considerate
and i do feel like we’re making positive

549
00:15:49,292 –> 00:15:49,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

550
00:15:49,381 –> 00:15:50,743
[david_blanchett]: steps but you know to be

551
00:15:50,745 –> 00:15:50,846
[paul_tyler]: ah

552
00:15:50,803 –> 00:15:54,129
[david_blanchett]: honest we haven’t made the steps thought
we would have five years ago hopefully the

553
00:15:54,169 –> 00:15:56,109
[david_blanchett]: next five years is better oh

554
00:15:57,681 –> 00:16:01,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right so before the call we
we touched briefly

555
00:16:00,856 –> 00:16:00,876
[bruno_caron]: m

556
00:16:01,267 –> 00:16:04,873
[ramsey_d_smith]: on the on the four percent rule
and that’s a that

557
00:16:04,804 –> 00:16:05,644
[bruno_caron]: oh

558
00:16:04,933 –> 00:16:05,113
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a

559
00:16:05,623 –> 00:16:06,150
[paul_tyler]: oh

560
00:16:05,854 –> 00:16:08,499
[ramsey_d_smith]: that discussion is a very regular refrain
on this

561
00:16:08,708 –> 00:16:08,810
[bruno_caron]: yes

562
00:16:09,100 –> 00:16:13,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: on this show so wanted to get
a sense first of what your what you’re

563
00:16:13,647 –> 00:16:17,033
[ramsey_d_smith]: both of your recent thoughts are on
the four percent role and it’s and it’s

564
00:16:17,674 –> 00:16:21,122
[ramsey_d_smith]: and it’s it’s rolled in the in
the personal financial man but

565
00:16:21,103 –> 00:16:21,447
[paul_tyler]: oh

566
00:16:21,163 –> 00:16:21,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: discussion

567
00:16:22,423 –> 00:16:23,383
[paul_tyler]: yeah

568
00:16:24,382 –> 00:16:24,644
[david_blanchett]: oh

569
00:16:24,560 –> 00:16:24,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’ll start with

570
00:16:24,909 –> 00:16:25,231
[michael_finke]: ramsey

571
00:16:25,002 –> 00:16:25,404
[ramsey_d_smith]: you michael

572
00:16:26,007 –> 00:16:26,170
[bruno_caron]: yes

573
00:16:27,029 –> 00:16:27,109
[michael_finke]: you

574
00:16:27,064 –> 00:16:27,346
[bruno_caron]: yah

575
00:16:27,149 –> 00:16:27,770
[michael_finke]: know i just gave

576
00:16:27,630 –> 00:16:28,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: yea

577
00:16:27,830 –> 00:16:28,772
[michael_finke]: a presentation

578
00:16:29,542 –> 00:16:29,683
[bruno_caron]: yah

579
00:16:29,914 –> 00:16:31,516
[michael_finke]: at tim co and

580
00:16:31,534 –> 00:16:31,756
[bruno_caron]: yeah

581
00:16:32,839 –> 00:16:34,662
[michael_finke]: at the very beginning of the presentation

582
00:16:34,376 –> 00:16:34,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

583
00:16:35,202 –> 00:16:40,592
[michael_finke]: there was an introduction by richard taylor
of the topic the four percent rule and

584
00:16:40,913 –> 00:16:41,113
[michael_finke]: his

585
00:16:41,164 –> 00:16:41,466
[bruno_caron]: my

586
00:16:41,354 –> 00:16:47,447
[michael_finke]: introduction was well everybody knows that the
four per cent rule is dumb you know

587
00:16:47,667 –> 00:16:51,203
[michael_finke]: ted richard taylor by the way is
a novel lariayouknow the father

588
00:16:50,970 –> 00:16:51,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

589
00:16:51,263 –> 00:16:53,467
[michael_finke]: of behavioral finance and his impression

590
00:16:53,115 –> 00:16:53,156
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

591
00:16:53,547 –> 00:16:53,848
[michael_finke]: of the four

592
00:16:53,829 –> 00:16:53,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

593
00:16:53,928 –> 00:16:55,791
[michael_finke]: percent rule is pretty much consistent with

594
00:16:55,650 –> 00:16:55,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

595
00:16:56,292 –> 00:16:56,572
[michael_finke]: the way a

596
00:16:56,554 –> 00:16:56,776
[bruno_caron]: oh

597
00:16:56,632 –> 00:16:59,457
[michael_finke]: lot of us have thought about it
for a long time it’s not so much

598
00:16:59,477 –> 00:16:59,577
[michael_finke]: that

599
00:16:59,619 –> 00:16:59,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:16:59,637 –> 00:16:59,677
[michael_finke]: it

601
00:16:59,674 –> 00:16:59,694
[bruno_caron]: m

602
00:16:59,717 –> 00:16:59,838
[michael_finke]: would

603
00:16:59,730 –> 00:16:59,971
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

604
00:17:00,439 –> 00:17:01,600
[michael_finke]: the original conception

605
00:17:01,241 –> 00:17:01,404
[paul_tyler]: yeah

606
00:17:01,741 –> 00:17:02,181
[michael_finke]: was dumb

607
00:17:02,149 –> 00:17:02,250
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

608
00:17:02,203 –> 00:17:02,953
[paul_tyler]: yeah

609
00:17:02,241 –> 00:17:02,802
[michael_finke]: in fact they made

610
00:17:02,674 –> 00:17:02,916
[bruno_caron]: oh

611
00:17:02,842 –> 00:17:03,503
[michael_finke]: a very good

612
00:17:03,422 –> 00:17:03,544
[bruno_caron]: yeah

613
00:17:03,644 –> 00:17:05,767
[michael_finke]: point bill began when he wrote the
paper and that

614
00:17:05,644 –> 00:17:05,664
[bruno_caron]: m

615
00:17:05,867 –> 00:17:11,837
[michael_finke]: is you can’t simply rely on average
returns to estimate what is safe with roll

616
00:17:11,764 –> 00:17:11,784
[bruno_caron]: m

617
00:17:11,897 –> 00:17:13,319
[michael_finke]: rated so you use historical

618
00:17:13,024 –> 00:17:13,044
[bruno_caron]: m

619
00:17:13,560 –> 00:17:18,708
[michael_finke]: united states returns et cetera and one
aspect of the four percent rule that got

620
00:17:18,788 –> 00:17:21,544
[michael_finke]: take up with this idea of a
fixed

621
00:17:21,960 –> 00:17:22,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

622
00:17:22,259 –> 00:17:27,544
[michael_finke]: spending amount from a volatile portfoltha ou
simply can’t do that can’t have a fixed

623
00:17:27,624 –> 00:17:29,345
[michael_finke]: spending amount from a volatile

624
00:17:28,959 –> 00:17:28,980
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

625
00:17:29,385 –> 00:17:31,407
[michael_finke]: portfolio because the portfolio rise

626
00:17:31,389 –> 00:17:31,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

627
00:17:31,467 –> 00:17:33,520
[michael_finke]: and fall over time and if it
falls

628
00:17:33,360 –> 00:17:33,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

629
00:17:33,600 –> 00:17:38,027
[michael_finke]: over time and you get a decade
for example like the one retires may be

630
00:17:38,107 –> 00:17:41,853
[michael_finke]: facing they’ve retired in two thousand twenty
one the reality is that they’re going to

631
00:17:41,893 –> 00:17:43,396
[michael_finke]: have to cut back on their spending

632
00:17:43,054 –> 00:17:43,294
[bruno_caron]: oh

633
00:17:43,539 –> 00:17:43,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

634
00:17:44,358 –> 00:17:44,638
[michael_finke]: in that

635
00:17:44,739 –> 00:17:44,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

636
00:17:45,139 –> 00:17:46,621
[michael_finke]: to some different variants

637
00:17:46,269 –> 00:17:47,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

638
00:17:46,681 –> 00:17:46,722
[michael_finke]: of

639
00:17:46,703 –> 00:17:46,864
[bruno_caron]: yeah

640
00:17:46,782 –> 00:17:48,164
[michael_finke]: the four percent rule that

641
00:17:48,150 –> 00:17:49,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

642
00:17:48,224 –> 00:17:50,748
[michael_finke]: created guard rails to allow clients

643
00:17:50,469 –> 00:17:50,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

644
00:17:50,848 –> 00:17:52,712
[michael_finke]: to adjust their spending upward or downward

645
00:17:52,645 –> 00:17:52,787
[paul_tyler]: what

646
00:17:53,052 –> 00:17:56,338
[michael_finke]: that’s probably a more realistic approach to
trying to develop a spending

647
00:17:56,319 –> 00:17:56,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:17:56,398 –> 00:18:02,628
[michael_finke]: plan from volatile portfolio but again it
also doesn’t address this idea of umlaungevity risk

649
00:18:03,129 –> 00:18:08,558
[michael_finke]: and it doesn’t really say anything about
what happens when you fail you know people

650
00:18:08,638 –> 00:18:12,489
[michael_finke]: run then marti carlo analysis and maybe
you have an eighty percent chance of success

651
00:18:12,509 –> 00:18:17,662
[michael_finke]: but there’s no information about how bad
things can get when you experience when you’re

652
00:18:17,762 –> 00:18:21,368
[michael_finke]: one of those twenty percent of retires
to experience failure and so i kind of

653
00:18:21,428 –> 00:18:27,318
[michael_finke]: is type like to us something called
a utility analysis where it recognizes that

654
00:18:27,274 –> 00:18:29,824
[bruno_caron]: yeah

655
00:18:28,019 –> 00:18:30,744
[michael_finke]: you know if you fail to spend
eight thousand dollars

656
00:18:30,810 –> 00:18:31,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

657
00:18:30,844 –> 00:18:31,104
[michael_finke]: a year

658
00:18:30,924 –> 00:18:30,985
[bruno_caron]: ah

659
00:18:31,645 –> 00:18:32,486
[michael_finke]: but the downside

660
00:18:32,313 –> 00:18:32,374
[bruno_caron]: ah

661
00:18:32,547 –> 00:18:33,749
[michael_finke]: is that you’re spending seventy thousand

662
00:18:33,570 –> 00:18:33,855
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

663
00:18:33,789 –> 00:18:38,416
[michael_finke]: dollars a year that’s okay that’s that’s
a much better failure than having to go

664
00:18:38,496 –> 00:18:40,099
[michael_finke]: from eight thousand to thirty thousand

665
00:18:40,059 –> 00:18:40,080
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

666
00:18:40,139 –> 00:18:41,201
[michael_finke]: dollars a year and live off

667
00:18:41,203 –> 00:18:41,504
[paul_tyler]: oh

668
00:18:41,261 –> 00:18:42,603
[michael_finke]: social security so

669
00:18:43,043 –> 00:18:43,590
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

670
00:18:43,264 –> 00:18:45,087
[michael_finke]: the gradation of life style

671
00:18:45,249 –> 00:18:45,270
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

672
00:18:45,548 –> 00:18:46,650
[michael_finke]: is what is captured

673
00:18:46,499 –> 00:18:46,561
[paul_tyler]: ay

674
00:18:46,710 –> 00:18:48,173
[michael_finke]: by using a utility analysis

675
00:18:47,788 –> 00:18:47,871
[paul_tyler]: ah

676
00:18:47,919 –> 00:18:47,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

677
00:18:48,233 –> 00:18:49,314
[michael_finke]: but it’s a little bit less

678
00:18:49,560 –> 00:18:49,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:18:49,815 –> 00:18:53,722
[michael_finke]: easy for advisors to understand output it
can optimize

680
00:18:53,319 –> 00:18:53,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

681
00:18:53,802 –> 00:18:58,971
[michael_finke]: but it can’t necessarily show you a
very compelling a vocative statistics like a failure

682
00:18:59,011 –> 00:18:59,752
[michael_finke]: rate but that

683
00:18:59,635 –> 00:18:59,656
[bruno_caron]: i

684
00:18:59,832 –> 00:19:00,353
[michael_finke]: failure rate

685
00:19:00,450 –> 00:19:01,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

686
00:19:00,814 –> 00:19:05,711
[michael_finke]: really neglects a lot of important information
and that should go into the retirement

687
00:19:05,353 –> 00:19:06,632
[paul_tyler]: oh

688
00:19:05,751 –> 00:19:06,495
[michael_finke]: planning process

689
00:19:07,303 –> 00:19:08,173
[paul_tyler]: oh

690
00:19:07,980 –> 00:19:12,368
[ramsey_d_smith]: well it seems to me that like
the way that the rule is used and

691
00:19:13,590 –> 00:19:16,054
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m being this is a rough rough
way of putting it but

692
00:19:16,505 –> 00:19:17,562
[paul_tyler]: yea

693
00:19:16,595 –> 00:19:19,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: it sort of described in a very
linear way and what you’re talking about is

694
00:19:19,483 –> 00:19:19,704
[paul_tyler]: yeah

695
00:19:19,720 –> 00:19:23,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: right has right the utility function as
a curve to it right

696
00:19:23,053 –> 00:19:23,295
[paul_tyler]: oh

697
00:19:23,466 –> 00:19:23,687
[ramsey_d_smith]: and

698
00:19:24,354 –> 00:19:24,516
[paul_tyler]: yeah

699
00:19:24,588 –> 00:19:26,832
[ramsey_d_smith]: to your point going from eighty to
seventy maybe means

700
00:19:26,713 –> 00:19:27,373
[paul_tyler]: oh

701
00:19:27,273 –> 00:19:27,854
[ramsey_d_smith]: right fewer

702
00:19:27,763 –> 00:19:28,024
[paul_tyler]: oh

703
00:19:27,874 –> 00:19:30,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: trips to the golf course but going
from seventy

704
00:19:30,424 –> 00:19:30,628
[bruno_caron]: oh

705
00:19:30,578 –> 00:19:31,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: to thirty it

706
00:19:31,935 –> 00:19:32,016
[paul_tyler]: ah

707
00:19:31,960 –> 00:19:33,283
[ramsey_d_smith]: means you know a lot more

708
00:19:33,274 –> 00:19:33,294
[bruno_caron]: m

709
00:19:33,303 –> 00:19:33,683
[ramsey_d_smith]: essentials

710
00:19:33,613 –> 00:19:34,393
[paul_tyler]: oh

711
00:19:33,743 –> 00:19:38,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: are you know are at risk um
know we had we had william began on

712
00:19:38,692 –> 00:19:39,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: the show some

713
00:19:39,643 –> 00:19:39,904
[paul_tyler]: yeah

714
00:19:39,653 –> 00:19:40,715
[ramsey_d_smith]: number of months ago and

715
00:19:40,834 –> 00:19:41,734
[bruno_caron]: oh

716
00:19:41,296 –> 00:19:42,999
[ramsey_d_smith]: one of the things that was really
remarkable as i

717
00:19:43,033 –> 00:19:43,274
[paul_tyler]: oh

718
00:19:43,039 –> 00:19:45,303
[ramsey_d_smith]: think that he would find common ground
with you and many of the things

719
00:19:45,283 –> 00:19:45,544
[paul_tyler]: oh

720
00:19:45,343 –> 00:19:47,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: you said he talked about spending

721
00:19:47,053 –> 00:19:47,338
[paul_tyler]: oh

722
00:19:47,306 –> 00:19:52,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: control is sort of a fundamental underlying
element that isn’t talked about enough um the

723
00:19:52,635 –> 00:19:53,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: four percent rule is i think it’s

724
00:19:54,394 –> 00:19:54,878
[paul_tyler]: i test

725
00:19:54,618 –> 00:19:54,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

726
00:19:54,656 –> 00:19:54,677
[michael_finke]: i

727
00:19:54,778 –> 00:19:57,803
[ramsey_d_smith]: view is it’s really good bench mark
and a good place to start a discussion

728
00:19:57,323 –> 00:19:57,504
[paul_tyler]: yeah

729
00:19:59,366 –> 00:20:00,668
[ramsey_d_smith]: and unfortunately

730
00:20:00,232 –> 00:20:00,514
[david_blanchett]: oh

731
00:20:00,768 –> 00:20:02,932
[ramsey_d_smith]: it has been sort of over utilized
as a

732
00:20:02,985 –> 00:20:03,085
[bruno_caron]: is

733
00:20:03,713 –> 00:20:03,914
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

734
00:20:05,674 –> 00:20:05,898
[bruno_caron]: yeah

735
00:20:06,318 –> 00:20:08,989
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s been used dogmatical in a way
i don’t think it was ever actually

736
00:20:08,985 –> 00:20:09,188
[bruno_caron]: yes

737
00:20:09,009 –> 00:20:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: meant to be meant to be applied

738
00:20:12,342 –> 00:20:12,402
[david_blanchett]: so

739
00:20:12,588 –> 00:20:12,709
[paul_tyler]: yeah

740
00:20:12,622 –> 00:20:15,026
[david_blanchett]: i mean real quick i mean all
all it tells you

741
00:20:14,974 –> 00:20:14,994
[bruno_caron]: m

742
00:20:15,647 –> 00:20:19,033
[david_blanchett]: is how much you need to have
saved when you retire it’s really you just

743
00:20:19,073 –> 00:20:20,075
[david_blanchett]: need twenty five times

744
00:20:19,849 –> 00:20:20,509
[michael_finke]: yeah

745
00:20:20,115 –> 00:20:22,980
[david_blanchett]: your income goal that’s all it’s ever
intended to do i think

746
00:20:22,949 –> 00:20:22,969
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

747
00:20:23,420 –> 00:20:23,981
[david_blanchett]: i think that

748
00:20:23,940 –> 00:20:24,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

749
00:20:24,222 –> 00:20:25,304
[david_blanchett]: that advice is still

750
00:20:25,500 –> 00:20:25,641
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

751
00:20:25,564 –> 00:20:27,167
[david_blanchett]: is still a decent rule of thumb

752
00:20:27,258 –> 00:20:27,399
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

753
00:20:27,327 –> 00:20:27,728
[david_blanchett]: i mean it’s

754
00:20:27,760 –> 00:20:27,901
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

755
00:20:27,768 –> 00:20:29,871
[david_blanchett]: obviously not optima for everyone i think

756
00:20:29,700 –> 00:20:29,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

757
00:20:29,991 –> 00:20:32,896
[david_blanchett]: the larger issue as michal points out
are the underling assumptions

758
00:20:32,889 –> 00:20:32,910
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

759
00:20:32,936 –> 00:20:37,364
[david_blanchett]: that have been used in that model
and other models as well they’ll still permeate

760
00:20:37,724 –> 00:20:41,050
[david_blanchett]: the advisors use today and i think
that you know using some of those assumptions

761
00:20:41,130 –> 00:20:41,591
[david_blanchett]: can lead to

762
00:20:41,550 –> 00:20:41,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

763
00:20:41,791 –> 00:20:45,758
[david_blanchett]: radically bad advice for advisors who are
doing these financial plans

764
00:20:45,570 –> 00:20:45,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

765
00:20:45,838 –> 00:20:50,367
[david_blanchett]: for individuals when focus on things like
the probe ability of success that totally ignores

766
00:20:50,407 –> 00:20:51,129
[david_blanchett]: the magnitude of fill

767
00:20:51,360 –> 00:20:51,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

768
00:20:52,794 –> 00:20:55,919
[paul_tyler]: well maybe talk we could talk a
little bit about

769
00:20:56,086 –> 00:20:56,187
[bruno_caron]: ah

770
00:20:56,120 –> 00:21:01,028
[paul_tyler]: you know advice in this period of
time i think of all the rules that

771
00:21:01,308 –> 00:21:01,729
[paul_tyler]: we’ve talked

772
00:21:01,599 –> 00:21:01,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

773
00:21:01,749 –> 00:21:05,736
[paul_tyler]: about things like don’t try to time
the mark well should you try the time

774
00:21:05,776 –> 00:21:07,178
[paul_tyler]: to interest environment

775
00:21:07,209 –> 00:21:07,230
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

776
00:21:07,579 –> 00:21:09,181
[paul_tyler]: right the interest rate and why should
i try

777
00:21:09,229 –> 00:21:09,493
[michael_finke]: my

778
00:21:09,262 –> 00:21:09,342
[paul_tyler]: to

779
00:21:09,579 –> 00:21:09,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

780
00:21:09,983 –> 00:21:16,434
[paul_tyler]: should i try to time the guaranteed
income market i never would have expected we

781
00:21:16,594 –> 00:21:24,988
[paul_tyler]: see such change dave that we talked
about earlier in income interest rates um and

782
00:21:25,068 –> 00:21:26,470
[paul_tyler]: just to give you a little bit
of color

783
00:21:26,169 –> 00:21:26,251
[bruno_caron]: ah

784
00:21:27,212 –> 00:21:27,352
[paul_tyler]: we’ve

785
00:21:27,299 –> 00:21:27,421
[bruno_caron]: is

786
00:21:27,392 –> 00:21:30,056
[paul_tyler]: had so much activity you knows a
car as carriers

787
00:21:30,240 –> 00:21:30,664
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:21:30,637 –> 00:21:34,864
[paul_tyler]: trying to keep up with rates and
deliver now value consumers an agent the same

789
00:21:34,924 –> 00:21:37,108
[paul_tyler]: time agents have used this and advisers

790
00:21:36,630 –> 00:21:36,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

791
00:21:36,810 –> 00:21:37,051
[bruno_caron]: yes

792
00:21:37,168 –> 00:21:40,894
[paul_tyler]: are using this opportunity to go back
and say you know you were in this

793
00:21:40,954 –> 00:21:46,043
[paul_tyler]: product you were in this plan will
move you to hear um carries there’s a

794
00:21:46,063 –> 00:21:48,046
[paul_tyler]: tremendous backlog in carriers

795
00:21:48,930 –> 00:21:49,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

796
00:21:48,988 –> 00:21:53,415
[paul_tyler]: a lot of this a lot of
the money is coming from retirement accounts investment

797
00:21:53,455 –> 00:21:55,579
[paul_tyler]: accounts and they may have started

798
00:21:55,474 –> 00:21:55,836
[bruno_caron]: oh

799
00:21:55,639 –> 00:22:00,156
[paul_tyler]: a conversation with a with their advisor
two months ago the money hasn’t transferred yet

800
00:22:01,097 –> 00:22:02,179
[paul_tyler]: and the balances are down

801
00:22:02,250 –> 00:22:02,970
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

802
00:22:03,141 –> 00:22:07,007
[paul_tyler]: so it’s really this really strange hurry
up and weight

803
00:22:07,020 –> 00:22:07,349
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

804
00:22:07,127 –> 00:22:12,336
[paul_tyler]: i mean what would your advice be
and all as david and michael to advisors

805
00:22:12,436 –> 00:22:14,660
[paul_tyler]: who are in that transition point

806
00:22:14,401 –> 00:22:14,522
[michael_finke]: or

807
00:22:14,800 –> 00:22:19,047
[paul_tyler]: at this moment with a client trying
to move them from a market based you

808
00:22:19,087 –> 00:22:19,488
[paul_tyler]: know from

809
00:22:19,919 –> 00:22:19,999
[michael_finke]: we

810
00:22:20,930 –> 00:22:22,292
[paul_tyler]: equity exposure into it

811
00:22:22,449 –> 00:22:22,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:22:22,474 –> 00:22:22,857
[paul_tyler]: guaranteed

813
00:22:22,661 –> 00:22:22,702
[michael_finke]: a

814
00:22:22,897 –> 00:22:23,502
[paul_tyler]: income space

815
00:22:24,973 –> 00:22:25,293
[david_blanchett]: so the one

816
00:22:25,223 –> 00:22:25,364
[paul_tyler]: yeah

817
00:22:25,313 –> 00:22:25,574
[david_blanchett]: thing that

818
00:22:25,800 –> 00:22:25,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

819
00:22:25,955 –> 00:22:29,142
[david_blanchett]: i think is a bit different now
versus like where we were in early twenty

820
00:22:29,222 –> 00:22:31,287
[david_blanchett]: twenty is that they weren’t necessarily

821
00:22:30,904 –> 00:22:30,924
[bruno_caron]: m

822
00:22:31,327 –> 00:22:34,453
[david_blanchett]: very good you know safe options that
now

823
00:22:34,543 –> 00:22:34,564
[bruno_caron]: m

824
00:22:34,554 –> 00:22:38,460
[david_blanchett]: you can get my guess yielding five
per cent the caps on fees spectacular i

825
00:22:38,520 –> 00:22:43,108
[david_blanchett]: think that you know that i always
worry about investors staying the course right

826
00:22:43,003 –> 00:22:43,227
[paul_tyler]: yes

827
00:22:43,448 –> 00:22:47,956
[david_blanchett]: but it’s always kind of dorbydory or
do i stick with the balance portfolio or

828
00:22:48,016 –> 00:22:50,320
[david_blanchett]: do i move to something else that
may be more secure well now

829
00:22:50,889 –> 00:22:50,910
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

830
00:22:51,281 –> 00:22:54,787
[david_blanchett]: i do think it’s worth having conversations
and say hey you know the markets might

831
00:22:54,847 –> 00:22:57,292
[david_blanchett]: rally they have rallied so far that
they might rally last month

832
00:22:57,189 –> 00:22:57,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

833
00:22:57,393 –> 00:22:58,504
[david_blanchett]: i rally michael down again

834
00:22:58,744 –> 00:22:58,926
[bruno_caron]: oh

835
00:22:59,622 –> 00:23:00,223
[david_blanchett]: how do you feel

836
00:23:00,279 –> 00:23:00,300
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

837
00:23:00,283 –> 00:23:01,485
[david_blanchett]: about your current your current

838
00:23:01,294 –> 00:23:02,134
[bruno_caron]: yeah

839
00:23:01,545 –> 00:23:05,492
[david_blanchett]: strategy and i think that now more
than ever you know it’s worth advisors understanding

840
00:23:05,400 –> 00:23:05,420
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

841
00:23:05,512 –> 00:23:09,238
[david_blanchett]: where these products it because what worries
me is that someone looked at apia you

842
00:23:09,278 –> 00:23:12,346
[david_blanchett]: know a year ago and they hated
it and they don’t real how the market

843
00:23:12,406 –> 00:23:13,652
[david_blanchett]: has evolved radically

844
00:23:13,873 –> 00:23:14,713
[paul_tyler]: yeah

845
00:23:14,174 –> 00:23:14,636
[david_blanchett]: over that last

846
00:23:14,580 –> 00:23:14,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

847
00:23:14,696 –> 00:23:14,837
[david_blanchett]: year

848
00:23:14,983 –> 00:23:16,003
[paul_tyler]: yeah

849
00:23:16,579 –> 00:23:18,911
[michael_finke]: yeah if you’re thinking in terms

850
00:23:18,853 –> 00:23:19,513
[paul_tyler]: yeah

851
00:23:18,971 –> 00:23:23,078
[michael_finke]: of timing interest rates it’s not a
bad idea to look at where the yield

852
00:23:23,158 –> 00:23:26,704
[michael_finke]: curve is right now because the markets
telling you what the expectations

853
00:23:26,550 –> 00:23:26,712
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

854
00:23:26,844 –> 00:23:27,826
[michael_finke]: are for interest

855
00:23:27,703 –> 00:23:27,724
[bruno_caron]: m

856
00:23:27,866 –> 00:23:31,973
[michael_finke]: rates going forward and it is that
they will fall i mean it’s not a

857
00:23:32,053 –> 00:23:32,914
[michael_finke]: perfect predictor

858
00:23:32,910 –> 00:23:33,540
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

859
00:23:32,974 –> 00:23:34,336
[michael_finke]: of interest rates but

860
00:23:34,170 –> 00:23:34,352
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

861
00:23:34,817 –> 00:23:39,465
[michael_finke]: you know the ten year is significantly
lower than the one year or two year

862
00:23:40,467 –> 00:23:41,148
[michael_finke]: treasury so

863
00:23:41,799 –> 00:23:41,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

864
00:23:42,009 –> 00:23:44,513
[michael_finke]: it’s telling you that the market is

865
00:23:44,494 –> 00:23:45,184
[bruno_caron]: yeah

866
00:23:44,594 –> 00:23:46,116
[michael_finke]: expecting this to be a temporary

867
00:23:46,084 –> 00:23:46,326
[bruno_caron]: oh

868
00:23:46,256 –> 00:23:50,704
[michael_finke]: short phenomenon of high interest rates to
sort of flow down the rate of inflation

869
00:23:51,645 –> 00:23:56,233
[michael_finke]: and it’s a retire you can take
vantage fees i mean if i just looked

870
00:23:56,273 –> 00:24:01,021
[michael_finke]: at five year mica yesterday and they
were five point two percent from high quality

871
00:24:01,361 –> 00:24:01,802
[michael_finke]: insures

872
00:24:02,010 –> 00:24:02,532
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

873
00:24:02,303 –> 00:24:05,569
[michael_finke]: if you can lock in your five
year liability

874
00:24:05,400 –> 00:24:06,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

875
00:24:05,669 –> 00:24:10,455
[michael_finke]: is using a five point two per
cent rate retirement income is a lot less

876
00:24:10,555 –> 00:24:11,577
[michael_finke]: expensive than it was

877
00:24:11,610 –> 00:24:11,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

878
00:24:11,777 –> 00:24:12,358
[michael_finke]: a year ago

879
00:24:12,763 –> 00:24:12,784
[bruno_caron]: m

880
00:24:13,314 –> 00:24:13,820
[paul_tyler]: oh

881
00:24:13,399 –> 00:24:17,765
[michael_finke]: you know if it’s good enough if
if that will help you meet your liabilities

882
00:24:17,805 –> 00:24:17,925
[michael_finke]: you’re

883
00:24:17,820 –> 00:24:17,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

884
00:24:17,945 –> 00:24:22,541
[michael_finke]: expected liabilities and retirement at a much
lower cost it might be worth locking those

885
00:24:22,657 –> 00:24:22,738
[paul_tyler]: this

886
00:24:22,781 –> 00:24:22,902
[michael_finke]: in

887
00:24:22,839 –> 00:24:22,960
[paul_tyler]: coup

888
00:24:23,042 –> 00:24:23,362
[michael_finke]: today

889
00:24:23,233 –> 00:24:23,455
[paul_tyler]: yeah

890
00:24:23,523 –> 00:24:25,887
[michael_finke]: who knows none of us know where
interest rates are going to go

891
00:24:26,083 –> 00:24:27,283
[paul_tyler]: oh

892
00:24:26,467 –> 00:24:27,409
[michael_finke]: but this

893
00:24:27,283 –> 00:24:27,973
[paul_tyler]: yeah

894
00:24:27,469 –> 00:24:29,252
[michael_finke]: really is an asset liability

895
00:24:29,070 –> 00:24:29,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

896
00:24:29,312 –> 00:24:31,917
[michael_finke]: match exercise that’s what retirement and come
planning is all about

897
00:24:31,920 –> 00:24:31,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

898
00:24:32,297 –> 00:24:32,718
[michael_finke]: and right now

899
00:24:32,713 –> 00:24:33,373
[paul_tyler]: yeah

900
00:24:32,778 –> 00:24:36,905
[michael_finke]: it takes we’re at to meet those
spending liabilities now the liabilities may have gone

901
00:24:36,965 –> 00:24:38,467
[michael_finke]: up also because of inflation but

902
00:24:38,469 –> 00:24:38,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

903
00:24:39,349 –> 00:24:39,569
[michael_finke]: you know

904
00:24:39,573 –> 00:24:39,759
[paul_tyler]: yes

905
00:24:39,910 –> 00:24:40,070
[michael_finke]: it’s

906
00:24:40,149 –> 00:24:40,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

907
00:24:40,591 –> 00:24:43,937
[michael_finke]: a lot of people have a mix
of inflation adjusted and nominal

908
00:24:43,590 –> 00:24:44,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

909
00:24:43,693 –> 00:24:43,934
[paul_tyler]: yeah

910
00:24:43,977 –> 00:24:47,282
[michael_finke]: liabilities for example texas my property taxes

911
00:24:47,379 –> 00:24:47,400
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:24:47,382 –> 00:24:48,765
[michael_finke]: after after i retire

913
00:24:49,243 –> 00:24:50,383
[paul_tyler]: yeah

914
00:24:49,245 –> 00:24:52,711
[michael_finke]: are going to be fixed so they’re
gonna be held constant that is a nominal

915
00:24:52,560 –> 00:24:52,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:24:52,771 –> 00:24:55,496
[michael_finke]: expense i can get rid of that’s
a nominal liability

917
00:24:55,333 –> 00:24:55,618
[paul_tyler]: oh

918
00:24:55,440 –> 00:24:56,190
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

919
00:24:55,576 –> 00:24:58,440
[michael_finke]: if we get rid of that with
a nominal invent man you know i can

920
00:24:58,480 –> 00:25:01,945
[michael_finke]: delay social security to deal with my
more inflation

921
00:25:01,959 –> 00:25:01,980
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

922
00:25:02,046 –> 00:25:07,054
[michael_finke]: adjusted types of expenses but you know
it is all asset liability matching in the

923
00:25:07,074 –> 00:25:07,815
[michael_finke]: markets giving you a

924
00:25:07,830 –> 00:25:08,790
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

925
00:25:07,855 –> 00:25:10,082
[michael_finke]: lot more these days than it did
in the recent as

926
00:25:12,325 –> 00:25:18,335
[bruno_caron]: well while while we’re on that topic
i know one of the critics to you

927
00:25:18,375 –> 00:25:25,346
[bruno_caron]: know to lifetime income protected lifetime income
is you know is the the inflation protection

928
00:25:26,128 –> 00:25:27,590
[bruno_caron]: um what do you say

929
00:25:27,853 –> 00:25:28,080
[paul_tyler]: yeah

930
00:25:27,890 –> 00:25:35,062
[bruno_caron]: to to those folks who you know
would go against any protected lifetime

931
00:25:34,740 –> 00:25:34,981
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

932
00:25:35,143 –> 00:25:35,463
[bruno_caron]: income

933
00:25:35,653 –> 00:25:36,403
[paul_tyler]: oh

934
00:25:36,148 –> 00:25:36,309
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

935
00:25:36,164 –> 00:25:39,330
[bruno_caron]: uh just based on that that inflation
factor

936
00:25:42,343 –> 00:25:46,490
[david_blanchett]: so i would say that i mean
again it’s different in every country run but

937
00:25:46,570 –> 00:25:46,870
[david_blanchett]: in you

938
00:25:46,804 –> 00:25:47,126
[bruno_caron]: oh

939
00:25:46,910 –> 00:25:50,376
[david_blanchett]: know the u s we have a
asocisecurty system that hat is explicitly linked to

940
00:25:50,436 –> 00:25:54,142
[david_blanchett]: inflation right so and i think that
you have set of

941
00:25:54,313 –> 00:25:54,599
[paul_tyler]: oh

942
00:25:54,964 –> 00:26:00,112
[david_blanchett]: real or inflation adjusted lifetime income to
michael’s point not all of someone’s liabilities have

943
00:26:00,152 –> 00:26:03,618
[david_blanchett]: to be matched to inflation so i
think that yes it isn’t it isn’t like

944
00:26:03,678 –> 00:26:07,324
[david_blanchett]: the best thing in the world but
you can’t buy the explicit inflation hedge with

945
00:26:07,485 –> 00:26:11,892
[david_blanchett]: other guaranteed income but there are there
are emerging set of products that exist today

946
00:26:12,353 –> 00:26:15,879
[david_blanchett]: that do provide at least an implicit
hedgewherethere’s a possibility of a benefit rise of

947
00:26:15,939 –> 00:26:16,720
[david_blanchett]: inflation is higher

948
00:26:16,804 –> 00:26:17,046
[bruno_caron]: oh

949
00:26:17,021 –> 00:26:20,964
[david_blanchett]: but i guess you know if every
if every american didn’t already have

950
00:26:21,030 –> 00:26:22,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

951
00:26:21,265 –> 00:26:22,926
[david_blanchett]: lifetime guaranteed income

952
00:26:22,804 –> 00:26:23,025
[bruno_caron]: oh

953
00:26:23,026 –> 00:26:23,407
[david_blanchett]: explicitly

954
00:26:23,123 –> 00:26:23,184
[paul_tyler]: he

955
00:26:23,427 –> 00:26:26,189
[david_blanchett]: linked to inflation i would be a
lot more worried about it but i think

956
00:26:26,369 –> 00:26:28,011
[david_blanchett]: people make that argument to view

957
00:26:28,929 –> 00:26:28,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:26:29,112 –> 00:26:34,792
[david_blanchett]: the liability the assets in their entirety
versus an isolation m

959
00:26:35,609 –> 00:26:35,869
[michael_finke]: we should

960
00:26:35,713 –> 00:26:36,373
[paul_tyler]: yeah

961
00:26:35,909 –> 00:26:36,089
[michael_finke]: also

962
00:26:36,043 –> 00:26:36,163
[ramsey_d_smith]: all

963
00:26:36,189 –> 00:26:36,449
[michael_finke]: mention

964
00:26:36,223 –> 00:26:36,423
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

965
00:26:36,529 –> 00:26:36,650
[michael_finke]: that

966
00:26:36,544 –> 00:26:36,644
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

967
00:26:36,690 –> 00:26:38,071
[michael_finke]: there is some product

968
00:26:38,006 –> 00:26:38,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead

969
00:26:38,191 –> 00:26:42,495
[michael_finke]: innovation in this space that for example
find g has come out with a fixed

970
00:26:42,575 –> 00:26:48,232
[michael_finke]: indexed annuity that does happen at five
percent inflation increase in the amount of guaranteed

971
00:26:48,292 –> 00:26:48,692
[michael_finke]: income that

972
00:26:48,690 –> 00:26:48,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

973
00:26:48,713 –> 00:26:50,876
[michael_finke]: you can receive so it’s really the
first fixed

974
00:26:50,734 –> 00:26:50,977
[bruno_caron]: oh

975
00:26:50,916 –> 00:26:56,425
[michael_finke]: into excenuity that i’ve seen with some
sort of an inflation linked income benefit guarantee

976
00:26:57,307 –> 00:27:00,104
[michael_finke]: be great to see a it more
innovation in that space i think

977
00:27:02,793 –> 00:27:02,933
[paul_tyler]: yeah

978
00:27:02,985 –> 00:27:03,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: well

979
00:27:03,133 –> 00:27:06,359
[paul_tyler]: it’s very expensive at this point michael
you know to come out with

980
00:27:06,549 –> 00:27:06,672
[michael_finke]: yeah

981
00:27:06,619 –> 00:27:10,486
[paul_tyler]: a product with value you want you
you want to sell when there’s not inflation

982
00:27:12,209 –> 00:27:12,329
[paul_tyler]: it’s

983
00:27:12,604 –> 00:27:13,624
[bruno_caron]: yeah

984
00:27:12,830 –> 00:27:16,699
[paul_tyler]: it’s very expensive one when we’re in
middle of it but your points well taken

985
00:27:16,980 –> 00:27:18,284
[paul_tyler]: so ramsey or does this

986
00:27:18,210 –> 00:27:19,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

987
00:27:18,364 –> 00:27:18,705
[paul_tyler]: leave us

988
00:27:19,881 –> 00:27:24,009
[ramsey_d_smith]: so look this as always this has
been a this has been a great discussion

989
00:27:24,070 –> 00:27:27,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think it would be great to
great to get a sense for you know

990
00:27:27,357 –> 00:27:32,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: where people can see you in the
near term webinar’s appearances

991
00:27:32,728 –> 00:27:32,749
[michael_finke]: m

992
00:27:33,718 –> 00:27:39,708
[ramsey_d_smith]: and you’ve been posting very prolifically on
linked in a lot of important stuff where

993
00:27:39,728 –> 00:27:42,337
[ramsey_d_smith]: should people look to you’re your latest
going forward

994
00:27:45,671 –> 00:27:45,977
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead dave

995
00:27:46,972 –> 00:27:49,036
[david_blanchett]: yeah so i mean i would say
that if you want to want to follow

996
00:27:49,076 –> 00:27:51,440
[david_blanchett]: me like the best place is linked
in i’m pretty active there

997
00:27:52,002 –> 00:27:52,022
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

998
00:27:52,822 –> 00:27:55,787
[david_blanchett]: but yeah so you know i usually
share hot thoughts i’m pretty honest

999
00:27:56,040 –> 00:27:56,342
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:27:56,248 –> 00:27:57,911
[david_blanchett]: always willing to engage in a good
conversation too

1001
00:27:58,414 –> 00:27:58,818
[bruno_caron]: oh

1002
00:27:58,492 –> 00:27:58,846
[david_blanchett]: yeah

1003
00:27:59,983 –> 00:28:00,608
[ramsey_d_smith]: right michael

1004
00:28:00,544 –> 00:28:00,766
[bruno_caron]: oh

1005
00:28:00,769 –> 00:28:05,016
[michael_finke]: i think you ramsey you can follow
me on twitter at bank on finance and

1006
00:28:05,877 –> 00:28:06,839
[michael_finke]: we have a podcast

1007
00:28:06,540 –> 00:28:07,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1008
00:28:06,959 –> 00:28:07,460
[michael_finke]: david and i

1009
00:28:07,870 –> 00:28:07,890
[bruno_caron]: m

1010
00:28:07,940 –> 00:28:08,101
[michael_finke]: and

1011
00:28:08,070 –> 00:28:09,180
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1012
00:28:09,503 –> 00:28:13,332
[michael_finke]: have a league to our podcast both
on lake and twitter you can give it

1013
00:28:13,372 –> 00:28:14,016
[michael_finke]: a lesson if you like

1014
00:28:14,944 –> 00:28:15,934
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1015
00:28:15,083 –> 00:28:15,403
[paul_tyler]: terrific

1016
00:28:15,420 –> 00:28:16,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1017
00:28:15,624 –> 00:28:16,245
[paul_tyler]: we’ll put the links

1018
00:28:16,470 –> 00:28:17,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1019
00:28:16,645 –> 00:28:19,550
[paul_tyler]: to all that in your in the
show notes if you’re

1020
00:28:19,599 –> 00:28:19,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1021
00:28:19,610 –> 00:28:23,857
[paul_tyler]: listening an ant to find david thank
you michael thanks for your time is great

1022
00:28:23,898 –> 00:28:28,686
[paul_tyler]: to have you on here we enjoy
following you your work and dialogue and stuff

1023
00:28:28,726 –> 00:28:32,973
[paul_tyler]: you support in the industry so thanks
for what you’re doing and bruno ramsey thanks

1024
00:28:33,053 –> 00:28:34,235
[paul_tyler]: for thanks

1025
00:28:34,182 –> 00:28:34,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: pleasure

1026
00:28:34,295 –> 00:28:36,238
[paul_tyler]: for hosting this and join

1027
00:28:36,154 –> 00:28:36,335
[bruno_caron]: thank

1028
00:28:36,258 –> 00:28:36,539
[paul_tyler]: us again

1029
00:28:36,396 –> 00:28:36,496
[bruno_caron]: you

1030
00:28:36,579 –> 00:28:40,577
[paul_tyler]: next join us again next week for
another episode of that annuity show

 

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 169: Should Interest Rate Changes Rewrite Retirement Product Recommendations with Dave Blanchett and Michael Finke
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Foldes Financial Announces Tax-Free Retirement

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Newsfile Corp.
October 27, 2022

Las Vegas, Nevada–(Newsfile Corp. – October 27, 2022) – Foldes Financial, a financial services company focused on providing tax-free retirement income, has announced the launch of reiterated Tax-Free Retirement Programs to serve business owners & the special needs community. The initiative led by the company’s Founder Peter Foldes Certified Financial Fiduciary® (CFF), takes its tax-free retirement solutions to the special needs community, with the goal to ensure families are adequately prepared for their retirement.

“Many families with children with special needs never realize the financial freedom they dreamed of. I saw firsthand the struggle parents have to support their child’s needs,” Peter Foldes said. “The special needs community has been a large part of my life, which is why we’re catering our programs ”

Peter Foldes leads the team at Foldes Financial to offer retirement planning, with tax-free growth solutions. Collaborating with a team of tax and law professionals to create systems for families with special needs. The goal of the program is to educate and change families’ futures for generations, working in the community and building partnerships with groups providing similar services.

“One of the reasons I love this work is because these structures can be options for businesses and individuals from all backgrounds. All families should know and understand their options but the reality is often they don’t. Helping the special needs community is at the core of our mission, providing help to those that need it most. If we can make even a small impact in our communities on a daily basis, special needs families across the country will hopefully start to close the gap of information and implementation.”

Foldes Financial has continued to expand its offerings across the nation, in line with the goal of Peter Foldes. Foldes Financial is hosting a free masterclass with world-renowned economist and PBS host Tom Hegna.

About Foldes Financial

Foldes Financial has continued to expand its offerings across the nation, in line with the goal of Peter Foldes. Foldes Financial is hosting a free masterclass with world-renowned economist and PBS host Tom Hegna. As shared with 80 million homes around the world, learn the 3 pillars of building and keeping wealth, sign up now https://bit.ly/tommakesmillionaires.

Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/foldes-financial-announces-tax-free-142300018.html

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherFoldes Financial Announces Tax-Free Retirement
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Ten to Watch in 2023: Dr. Preston Cherry

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Dr. Preston Cherry is the founder of Concurrent Financial Planning, president of the Financial Therapy Association and head of financial planning at the Austin E. Chofrin School of Business and director of the Charles Schwab Center for Personal Financial Planning.

Ali Hibbs
November 1, 2022

As a child, Dr. Preston Cherry’s mother taught him about the value in thinking about financial wellness from a psychological perspective.

“The vulnerability, the compassion, how to deal with shame, how to deal with guilt and regret, being open, being honest with oneself, and all of that,” he said. “My mother introduced that into our home at very early ages.”

This has driven much of Cherry’s recent work, and he maintains that there are metrics for measuring the effects of different psychological approaches to finance.

Ten to Watch: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/people/ten-watch-2023

“We’re talking about stages of change,” he said. “What’s inspiring you? What is your willingness and your readiness to change? And there are stages that influence what type of decisions and changes you’re willing and able to make to accomplish your goals. And you can measure that by your levels of perception, your levels of worry and anxiety. Are they high or low? Your levels of satisfaction. Do you feel you’ve accomplished your goals?”

In an article published by Cherry while earning his doctorate, he said the first three steps to achieving financial wellness involved admitting one’s financial truths, acknowledging the feelings those truths create and then taking action to adjust them where needed in small and achievable ways.

He’s now one of the industry’s leading experts in the nascent field of “financial psychology,” a concept he was introduced to while getting his doctorate in personal financial planning from Texas Tech University.

And it’s one approach to financial planning that has quickly gained a following.

Cherry got his start in banking, but quickly got turned onto financial planning through a mentor at Prairie View A&M University, where he got his bachelor’s degree. He earned a master’s degree in financial planning in 2006, then later returned to Texas Tech to earn his doctorate.

These days, he lives in Green Bay, Wisc., heading up the financial planning department at the University of Wisconsin’s business school and serving as director of the new Charles Schwab Center for Personal Financial Planning on the same campus.

Cherry said his speaking engagements and work to promote awareness of financial psychology, as well as financial literacy, are what’s really driving him.

“The terminology and the empirical research and how it’s being delivered nowadays is so important,” said Cherry, who stressed that helping clients to face hard truths and be vulnerable in their own personal journeys is a big part of helping them to achieve a healthy balance between finances and lifestyle.

“You’re going from trying to understand how we process information and those types of things that behavioral finance was focused on in the beginning to really getting into well-being,” he explained. “We’re now talking about how it may not be an irrational versus rational matter, it may really be more about perspective, cultural experiences or your background and what shaped you.”

Read more: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/people/ten-watch-2023-dr-preston-cherry

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherTen to Watch in 2023: Dr. Preston Cherry
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Retire Inspired

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Join retirement expert Mary Beth Franklin and experts from Athene and The Index Standard for strategies that take the focus off current challenges and put it back on what clients want for their future.

Athene
October 31, 2022

Yes, you can help clients navigate a path toward the retirement they envision, even with the significant headwinds that have emerged. In this season of the Retirement Repair Shop podcast series, experts from Athene and The Index Standard speak with retirement income expert Mary Beth Franklin at smart ways to plan around inflation, strategies for handling the recent increase in market volatility, the threat of recession, and more!

Watch and listen here: https://www.investmentnews.com/retire-inspired-227577

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Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherRetire Inspired
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