Branislav Nikolic

Episode 176: Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic

No comments

# 176 – Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic

Indices continue to proliferate within the fixed indexed annuity market. Yes, choice is good for the client but it can create a complicated environment for the agent or advisor. Laurence Black, Founder of the Index Standard and Branislav Nikolic join us again to talk about how their company makes providing good information easier.

Links mentioned in the show:

 Listen

 Watch

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:02,876 –> 00:00:03,016
[paul_tyler]: hi

2
00:00:03,090 –> 00:00:04,200
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

3
00:00:03,116 –> 00:00:07,890
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show bruno

4
00:00:07,860 –> 00:00:08,730
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

5
00:00:08,613 –> 00:00:08,954
[paul_tyler]: welcome

6
00:00:10,139 –> 00:00:13,725
[bruno_caron]: thank you great to be here and
excited about

7
00:00:13,746 –> 00:00:14,066
[paul_tyler]: tessa

8
00:00:13,765 –> 00:00:14,166
[bruno_caron]: our guests

9
00:00:14,267 –> 00:00:17,934
[paul_tyler]: glad you got your yahyeahtisa good to
see you

10
00:00:18,752 –> 00:00:19,429
[bruno_caron]: yeah

11
00:00:18,828 –> 00:00:19,739
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: to see you good morning

12
00:00:20,266 –> 00:00:21,268
[paul_tyler]: yeah we’ve been

13
00:00:21,238 –> 00:00:21,259
[bruno_caron]: m

14
00:00:21,308 –> 00:00:24,353
[paul_tyler]: busy on a lot of fronts last
few weeks haven’t we

15
00:00:25,320 –> 00:00:25,340
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

16
00:00:25,535 –> 00:00:26,557
[paul_tyler]: and ramsey looks

17
00:00:26,400 –> 00:00:26,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

18
00:00:26,597 –> 00:00:29,722
[paul_tyler]: like you’re i think you’re broadcasting from
an undisclosed location today

19
00:00:30,177 –> 00:00:30,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: indeed

20
00:00:30,343 –> 00:00:30,684
[paul_tyler]: correct

21
00:00:30,698 –> 00:00:32,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: looks kind of like a wine seller
doesn’t it but

22
00:00:33,076 –> 00:00:33,257
[paul_tyler]: yeah

23
00:00:33,756 –> 00:00:33,776
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

24
00:00:34,464 –> 00:00:34,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not

25
00:00:35,585 –> 00:00:36,169
[paul_tyler]: yeah ah

26
00:00:36,387 –> 00:00:37,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very

27
00:00:36,975 –> 00:00:37,016
[paul_tyler]: ah

28
00:00:37,168 –> 00:00:37,389
[ramsey_d_smith]: happy

29
00:00:37,272 –> 00:00:37,416
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

30
00:00:37,449 –> 00:00:43,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: to be here and really excited to
welcome lawrence black in the end standard uh

31
00:00:44,040 –> 00:00:48,247
[ramsey_d_smith]: the the index standard has been our
lead sponsor for the better part of the

32
00:00:48,287 –> 00:00:52,434
[ramsey_d_smith]: last year so we’re really excited to
have them on they’re doing a lot of

33
00:00:52,494 –> 00:01:01,329
[ramsey_d_smith]: very interesting things in and helping the
the index community unpack the best way to

34
00:01:01,429 –> 00:01:06,257
[ramsey_d_smith]: allocate industies and the best way to
understand their role in a broader portfolio so

35
00:01:06,638 –> 00:01:10,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: with that lawrence i want to start
out with you and you also have a

36
00:01:11,227 –> 00:01:13,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: special guest a new addition to your
team you’re going to want to introduce

37
00:01:13,479 –> 00:01:13,500
[branislav_nikolic]: m

38
00:01:13,772 –> 00:01:15,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: as well so i will pass it
on to you for that

39
00:01:15,374 –> 00:01:21,180
[laurence]: indeed so good morning every one it’s
great to join you so as you guys

40
00:01:21,240 –> 00:01:24,285
[laurence]: know it i’ve been with you a
couple of times in the past great to

41
00:01:24,325 –> 00:01:28,913
[laurence]: be back here again and i’m delighted
to introduce brand nicolitch who’s just joined us

42
00:01:29,013 –> 00:01:31,659
[laurence]: from from begpardon let me try a
re

43
00:01:31,749 –> 00:01:31,770
[branislav_nikolic]: m

44
00:01:31,759 –> 00:01:37,289
[laurence]: do that again hey good morning it’s
great to join you i’m delighted to introduce

45
00:01:37,630 –> 00:01:38,732
[laurence]: branslanicolich

46
00:01:38,197 –> 00:01:38,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

47
00:01:38,852 –> 00:01:43,880
[laurence]: who’s just joined us from chanics he
was ahead of research and he was therefore

48
00:01:43,940 –> 00:01:48,527
[laurence]: about almost a decade and the index
standard we’ve got a lot of index expertise

49
00:01:48,627 –> 00:01:51,150
[laurence]: and it’s great to kind of expand
our capabilities

50
00:01:50,542 –> 00:01:50,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

51
00:01:51,250 –> 00:01:54,073
[laurence]: with brand slabs in depth insurance knowledge

52
00:01:56,547 –> 00:01:57,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic

53
00:01:56,846 –> 00:01:57,887
[paul_tyler]: welcome yeah

54
00:01:58,150 –> 00:01:58,936
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you extremely

55
00:01:58,708 –> 00:01:58,908
[paul_tyler]: you want

56
00:01:58,976 –> 00:01:59,661
[branislav_nikolic]: happy to be here

57
00:02:00,529 –> 00:02:02,011
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah tell us

58
00:02:02,137 –> 00:02:02,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

59
00:02:02,611 –> 00:02:05,394
[paul_tyler]: tell us it’s a little bit about
your back story how did how did you

60
00:02:05,434 –> 00:02:07,055
[paul_tyler]: get into the annuity space

61
00:02:08,047 –> 00:02:08,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

62
00:02:08,720 –> 00:02:14,345
[branislav_nikolic]: so my story with annuities was polly
haphazard so old way through school i thought

63
00:02:14,385 –> 00:02:18,049
[branislav_nikolic]: i would end up on a trading
desk somewhere be a proper quant and i

64
00:02:18,389 –> 00:02:23,657
[branislav_nikolic]: had enormous luck to meet motinmilevsky extreme
early in my career and started working for

65
00:02:24,138 –> 00:02:28,465
[branislav_nikolic]: for his start up later joined chanics
which is again an industry leader on data

66
00:02:28,525 –> 00:02:36,578
[branislav_nikolic]: analytics for annuities spent good almost ten
years there leading research and really helping antics

67
00:02:36,699 –> 00:02:42,849
[branislav_nikolic]: build their capabilities in all sorts of
annuities in terms of platforms for exchanges that’s

68
00:02:42,909 –> 00:02:49,059
[branislav_nikolic]: how i lawrence and j and i
really saw the two missions extremely complimentary and

69
00:02:49,540 –> 00:02:54,048
[branislav_nikolic]: i always saw the index as a
fuel to the annuity and i always was

70
00:02:54,088 –> 00:02:55,530
[branislav_nikolic]: saying that it’s important these

71
00:02:55,417 –> 00:02:55,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

72
00:02:55,590 –> 00:02:56,051
[branislav_nikolic]: two things

73
00:02:56,317 –> 00:02:57,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

74
00:02:56,392 –> 00:03:01,042
[branislav_nikolic]: evaluated together so we started talking and
i’m extremely happy to have joined the team

75
00:03:01,183 –> 00:03:03,608
[branislav_nikolic]: and to be side by side with
lawrence and j

76
00:03:04,387 –> 00:03:05,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

77
00:03:04,446 –> 00:03:04,566
[paul_tyler]: ah

78
00:03:04,770 –> 00:03:05,012
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

79
00:03:05,608 –> 00:03:11,217
[paul_tyler]: lawrence so actually we saw each other
in person it was it was tremendous i

80
00:03:11,885 –> 00:03:12,210
[laurence]: indeed

81
00:03:11,978 –> 00:03:16,846
[paul_tyler]: i made the very last minute decision
to tend naa this year and a f

82
00:03:16,987 –> 00:03:20,392
[paul_tyler]: a for those of you who were
wont to look at this up had their

83
00:03:20,432 –> 00:03:26,543
[paul_tyler]: conference in california showed up and lawrence
you were on a great platform talking about

84
00:03:27,104 –> 00:03:32,272
[paul_tyler]: kind of the landscape of product design
and industiesn maybe for our audience you could

85
00:03:32,312 –> 00:03:36,279
[paul_tyler]: just sort of give us talk to
us a little bit more about the problem

86
00:03:36,339 –> 00:03:40,529
[paul_tyler]: you’re solving and you know what’s taking
place in the market today

87
00:03:41,924 –> 00:03:46,531
[laurence]: sure thanks paul because you know a
lot is happening so let me just sort

88
00:03:46,572 –> 00:03:48,415
[laurence]: of give everyone little bit of background
about what we

89
00:03:48,487 –> 00:03:48,729
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

90
00:03:48,595 –> 00:03:52,762
[laurence]: do so at the end of standard
we all know there’s so much complexity in

91
00:03:52,802 –> 00:03:57,287
[laurence]: this market with induces and the pay
offs so what we do at the end

92
00:03:57,347 –> 00:04:04,714
[laurence]: next standard which were really trying to
simplify decode and mystify all this complexity and

93
00:04:04,754 –> 00:04:07,641
[laurence]: we do it in a couple of
ways we’ve got a lot of research

94
00:04:07,490 –> 00:04:07,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: he

95
00:04:07,821 –> 00:04:12,372
[laurence]: that we help people giving them insights
as to what products and industries to select

96
00:04:13,664 –> 00:04:19,880
[laurence]: we also actually rate and evaluate every
single index used in the insurance space we

97
00:04:19,980 –> 00:04:25,751
[laurence]: give it a platinum gold silver bronze
rating and then we actually have some forward

98
00:04:25,791 –> 00:04:29,617
[laurence]: looking forecast to help people think about
the future because we all know the future

99
00:04:29,657 –> 00:04:33,223
[laurence]: is going to be different so we
have some forecast and then we’ve actually on

100
00:04:33,263 –> 00:04:38,853
[laurence]: the of these forecasts we’ve actually launched
some model allications so allicating

101
00:04:38,471 –> 00:04:38,657
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

102
00:04:38,913 –> 00:04:43,420
[laurence]: to an annuity can be really tough
with sort of fifteen crediting lines so we’ve

103
00:04:43,480 –> 00:04:45,343
[laurence]: actually built a tool to help people
with

104
00:04:45,607 –> 00:04:45,767
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

105
00:04:45,746 –> 00:04:51,431
[laurence]: a tough selection now i just want
to give you some background about the index

106
00:04:51,611 –> 00:04:53,816
[laurence]: industry so one interesting

107
00:04:53,616 –> 00:04:53,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

108
00:04:53,936 –> 00:04:58,725
[laurence]: fact it’s actually almost a trillion dollar
industry no one knows about it so i

109
00:04:58,805 –> 00:05:00,268
[laurence]: call it like a niche market

110
00:04:59,892 –> 00:04:59,973
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

111
00:05:00,468 –> 00:05:01,370
[laurence]: that’s a trillion dollars

112
00:05:01,117 –> 00:05:01,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

113
00:05:02,371 –> 00:05:06,739
[laurence]: so you know we see in the
u s insurance space there’s probably is the

114
00:05:06,859 –> 00:05:12,573
[laurence]: bulk of risk control industries probably about
half that but actually risk control industries are

115
00:05:12,734 –> 00:05:13,878
[laurence]: used in germany

116
00:05:14,137 –> 00:05:15,427
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

117
00:05:14,339 –> 00:05:15,142
[laurence]: and in switzerland

118
00:05:15,457 –> 00:05:15,719
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

119
00:05:15,954 –> 00:05:17,139
[laurence]: actually used in the insurance

120
00:05:16,867 –> 00:05:17,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

121
00:05:17,179 –> 00:05:23,507
[laurence]: space they use risk control industries in
mutual funds then another big portion is structure

122
00:05:23,567 –> 00:05:29,236
[laurence]: products we estimate there’s probably two hundred
and fifty billion in instructure products that actually

123
00:05:29,337 –> 00:05:34,084
[laurence]: are linked to these risk control industries
and then actually you have this of bank

124
00:05:34,805 –> 00:05:41,030
[laurence]: market where they’re doing direct transactions with
big institutions that’s probably another two hundred billions

125
00:05:41,090 –> 00:05:44,153
[laurence]: so in total we think it’s around
about a trillion dollar market

126
00:05:46,128 –> 00:05:49,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: so that’s incredible i mean one of
the things though that is

127
00:05:49,410 –> 00:05:50,040
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

128
00:05:49,954 –> 00:05:54,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: that has been interesting about the market
is it’s gotten it’s been characterized by a

129
00:05:54,602 –> 00:05:58,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot more choice and there’s a lot
of value in an adit a choice but

130
00:05:58,949 –> 00:06:04,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: with with those choices becomes many many
more complicated decisions

131
00:06:04,874 –> 00:06:04,997
[laurence]: yeah

132
00:06:04,919 –> 00:06:08,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: and you know so i guess a
question you know that that i have for

133
00:06:09,026 –> 00:06:13,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: you like so what sort of what
are your various target audiences i can see

134
00:06:13,952 –> 00:06:15,934
[ramsey_d_smith]: i can certainly see why retail retail

135
00:06:16,063 –> 00:06:16,084
[laurence]: m

136
00:06:16,194 –> 00:06:23,104
[ramsey_d_smith]: consumers would want to be able to
decode all the choices but i would imagine

137
00:06:23,165 –> 00:06:29,495
[ramsey_d_smith]: that institutions are almost similarly challenged so
what are your target audiences for your product

138
00:06:29,535 –> 00:06:31,535
[ramsey_d_smith]: lines yeah

139
00:06:31,535 –> 00:06:35,002
[laurence]: so we’re actually kind of targeting that
that whole gammit we want

140
00:06:34,921 –> 00:06:35,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

141
00:06:35,042 –> 00:06:41,234
[laurence]: to help organizations with the selection and
due diligence of these industies want to help

142
00:06:41,354 –> 00:06:45,181
[laurence]: organizations who selling them that they can
use our reports to kind of position them

143
00:06:45,842 –> 00:06:49,909
[laurence]: and and in the end consumer i
mean the main reason i’m actually here and

144
00:06:49,989 –> 00:06:53,575
[laurence]: doing this is i want m and
ms smith who are buying these policies to

145
00:06:53,675 –> 00:06:54,456
[laurence]: do better right

146
00:06:54,457 –> 00:06:54,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

147
00:06:54,777 –> 00:06:55,999
[laurence]: by building choosing

148
00:06:55,957 –> 00:06:56,481
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

149
00:06:56,119 –> 00:07:01,768
[laurence]: better industries and building diverse portfolios and
let me just make one quick comment about

150
00:07:01,609 –> 00:07:01,889
[bruno_caron]: oh

151
00:07:01,809 –> 00:07:02,670
[laurence]: the industries because

152
00:07:02,835 –> 00:07:02,856
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

153
00:07:03,031 –> 00:07:06,545
[laurence]: you know i think we hear a
lot about the comp lexity but also on

154
00:07:06,585 –> 00:07:11,813
[laurence]: the sort of flip side is actually
it’s really wonderful because what we’re now

155
00:07:11,917 –> 00:07:11,937
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

156
00:07:11,994 –> 00:07:18,064
[laurence]: seeing is a lot of the users
are actually getting access to techniques that only

157
00:07:18,204 –> 00:07:23,012
[laurence]: used by hedge funds or big pension
funds i can give any example there’s a

158
00:07:23,132 –> 00:07:28,662
[laurence]: technique called mean verace optimization just a
fancy way of saying give me the best

159
00:07:28,782 –> 00:07:33,913
[laurence]: aplication to target a certain level of
risk that was kind of actually harry make

160
00:07:33,993 –> 00:07:37,562
[laurence]: its came up with that technique in
the late fifties he wanted no ball prize

161
00:07:37,642 –> 00:07:41,626
[laurence]: for up until a couple of years
ago you only had big pension funds and

162
00:07:41,686 –> 00:07:47,550
[laurence]: big hedge funds were using that ut
now amazingly that technique is an indusies and

163
00:07:47,610 –> 00:07:52,119
[laurence]: we can all access that so that’s
actually a really wonderful innovation that all of

164
00:07:52,179 –> 00:07:52,980
[laurence]: us can use that

165
00:07:52,890 –> 00:07:53,133
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

166
00:07:53,287 –> 00:07:53,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

167
00:07:53,341 –> 00:07:53,982
[laurence]: to do better

168
00:07:54,028 –> 00:07:55,020
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah m

169
00:07:55,229 –> 00:08:00,498
[bruno_caron]: that’s that’s wonderful and can you talk
you talk a little bit more about those

170
00:08:01,399 –> 00:08:06,728
[bruno_caron]: those actual metrics and in practice what
type of metrics it you used to rate

171
00:08:06,989 –> 00:08:07,029
[bruno_caron]: s

172
00:08:07,567 –> 00:08:07,848
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

173
00:08:07,810 –> 00:08:13,199
[bruno_caron]: h i mean you list plenty in
terms of calculating and measuring those like like

174
00:08:13,279 –> 00:08:16,905
[bruno_caron]: capital risk metric efficiency metric return metric

175
00:08:19,477 –> 00:08:19,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

176
00:08:19,519 –> 00:08:21,783
[bruno_caron]: what are those metrics and what do
they mean

177
00:08:21,607 –> 00:08:21,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

178
00:08:21,943 –> 00:08:24,247
[bruno_caron]: for people who ultimately use them

179
00:08:25,424 –> 00:08:26,646
[laurence]: he great question bruno

180
00:08:26,689 –> 00:08:28,838
[bruno_caron]: yeah

181
00:08:26,806 –> 00:08:29,571
[laurence]: so we actually look at about thirty
five

182
00:08:29,359 –> 00:08:29,500
[bruno_caron]: yeah

183
00:08:29,671 –> 00:08:30,733
[laurence]: metrics and i’m going

184
00:08:30,732 –> 00:08:30,813
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

185
00:08:30,753 –> 00:08:32,536
[laurence]: to loosely break them down into

186
00:08:32,610 –> 00:08:32,871
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

187
00:08:32,756 –> 00:08:35,000
[laurence]: three groups so the first group is

188
00:08:35,119 –> 00:08:35,503
[bruno_caron]: yeah

189
00:08:35,621 –> 00:08:38,048
[laurence]: we really want to look at the
complex city of each

190
00:08:38,029 –> 00:08:38,393
[bruno_caron]: oh

191
00:08:38,189 –> 00:08:44,540
[laurence]: index how it’s designed and the availability
of the rules and who’s calculating that the

192
00:08:44,660 –> 00:08:51,346
[laurence]: key thing is is really that complexity
we’ll look at the dirt the diversification we’ll

193
00:08:51,366 –> 00:08:54,465
[laurence]: look and see if the rules are
available well look and see if there’s an

194
00:08:54,585 –> 00:08:56,308
[laurence]: independent index calculation

195
00:08:56,437 –> 00:08:56,663
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

196
00:08:56,448 –> 00:09:00,555
[laurence]: agent and we like to see those
things and by the way what we prefer

197
00:09:00,615 –> 00:09:04,241
[laurence]: to see when we’re looking at an
index is simpler is better than an index

198
00:09:04,362 –> 00:09:09,047
[laurence]: with lots of no second category is
what you touched on

199
00:09:09,139 –> 00:09:10,219
[bruno_caron]: oh

200
00:09:09,428 –> 00:09:10,710
[laurence]: will look at a lot of

201
00:09:10,736 –> 00:09:11,576
[paul_tyler]: yeah

202
00:09:11,692 –> 00:09:15,939
[laurence]: metrics like such as returns and volatility
but there we want to kind of go

203
00:09:16,119 –> 00:09:20,685
[laurence]: under the hood and we look at
something called v which is v a r

204
00:09:20,986 –> 00:09:24,071
[laurence]: but it’s just simply a metric that
tells you how much you can possibly

205
00:09:23,897 –> 00:09:24,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: what does

206
00:09:24,151 –> 00:09:24,331
[laurence]: lose

207
00:09:24,178 –> 00:09:24,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: that spell

208
00:09:24,431 –> 00:09:24,652
[laurence]: so we

209
00:09:24,700 –> 00:09:24,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: out

210
00:09:24,732 –> 00:09:24,852
[laurence]: want

211
00:09:24,881 –> 00:09:24,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: to

212
00:09:24,892 –> 00:09:25,132
[laurence]: to look

213
00:09:25,182 –> 00:09:25,464
[ramsey_d_smith]: lawrence

214
00:09:25,212 –> 00:09:25,413
[laurence]: at that

215
00:09:25,765 –> 00:09:26,669
[ramsey_d_smith]: for those on our audience

216
00:09:26,374 –> 00:09:26,518
[laurence]: yeah

217
00:09:26,709 –> 00:09:26,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: who don’t

218
00:09:26,844 –> 00:09:26,864
[bruno_caron]: i

219
00:09:26,970 –> 00:09:27,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: know

220
00:09:27,025 –> 00:09:27,045
[bruno_caron]: i

221
00:09:27,090 –> 00:09:27,833
[ramsey_d_smith]: what that spells out

222
00:09:27,810 –> 00:09:28,013
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

223
00:09:27,814 –> 00:09:27,934
[laurence]: we’re

224
00:09:27,914 –> 00:09:27,994
[ramsey_d_smith]: to

225
00:09:27,974 –> 00:09:28,435
[laurence]: going to keep it

226
00:09:28,399 –> 00:09:28,700
[bruno_caron]: oh

227
00:09:28,495 –> 00:09:28,775
[laurence]: simple

228
00:09:28,907 –> 00:09:29,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

229
00:09:29,116 –> 00:09:30,719
[laurence]: we just look under the hood and
we kind

230
00:09:30,627 –> 00:09:30,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

231
00:09:30,759 –> 00:09:32,542
[laurence]: of figure out the max that you
could lose

232
00:09:32,698 –> 00:09:32,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

233
00:09:33,183 –> 00:09:37,531
[laurence]: we also look at you know the
number of months that the index has positive

234
00:09:37,591 –> 00:09:42,640
[laurence]: on negative returns look at another technical
measure that says have you got a propensity

235
00:09:42,720 –> 00:09:43,942
[laurence]: for positive returns

236
00:09:44,077 –> 00:09:44,097
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

237
00:09:44,974 –> 00:09:48,620
[laurence]: we also look at large big outliers
as well to see if you’ve got any

238
00:09:48,800 –> 00:09:53,969
[laurence]: positive or large negative outlines again that
tells us a lot and then the final

239
00:09:54,069 –> 00:09:58,338
[laurence]: categories we actually look forward and we
actually bring in some of our forecast to

240
00:09:58,419 –> 00:10:00,906
[laurence]: try and also have a forward looking
measure

241
00:10:00,956 –> 00:10:01,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

242
00:10:01,247 –> 00:10:04,699
[laurence]: so we score each nex out of
a hundred then we market on a bell

243
00:10:04,759 –> 00:10:11,059
[laurence]: shaped curve when we allocate platinum gold
silver bronze and then we also have watch

244
00:10:11,160 –> 00:10:12,583
[laurence]: and neutral as our worst categories

245
00:10:13,516 –> 00:10:17,723
[paul_tyler]: so lawrence if if i’m an advisor
selling one

246
00:10:17,677 –> 00:10:17,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

247
00:10:17,743 –> 00:10:22,451
[paul_tyler]: of our one of our own companies
products to tsa and i’ve got the materials

248
00:10:22,511 –> 00:10:30,869
[paul_tyler]: in front of my the table because
the virtual table i have a lot of

249
00:10:30,929 –> 00:10:36,458
[paul_tyler]: personal risk at stake here right i
could recommend

250
00:10:35,986 –> 00:10:36,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

251
00:10:36,798 –> 00:10:40,505
[paul_tyler]: induces that creator the next two years

252
00:10:40,354 –> 00:10:41,014
[laurence]: yeah

253
00:10:41,326 –> 00:10:47,296
[paul_tyler]: um i could uh come over the
recommendations that are all kind of bunched up

254
00:10:47,356 –> 00:10:50,702
[paul_tyler]: in one in a couple i may
think i’ve diversified the actual

255
00:10:50,497 –> 00:10:50,780
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

256
00:10:50,802 –> 00:10:57,895
[paul_tyler]: industries when in fact i’ve put all
her retirement into sort of one sector m

257
00:10:58,946 –> 00:11:04,736
[paul_tyler]: sometimes advisers simply default of saying look
tis just pick three or four of these

258
00:11:04,836 –> 00:11:09,624
[paul_tyler]: and let’s divide by that number and
put them in these industries oh and by

259
00:11:09,684 –> 00:11:13,571
[paul_tyler]: the way we now have best interest
standards now coming down the pike what

260
00:11:13,565 –> 00:11:13,686
[laurence]: yeah

261
00:11:13,591 –> 00:11:17,076
[paul_tyler]: does that process look like do i
spend more time with her lawrence do i

262
00:11:17,116 –> 00:11:22,205
[paul_tyler]: have better tools do i go in
with sort of pre set recommendations what does

263
00:11:22,245 –> 00:11:24,060
[paul_tyler]: that this looks like two or three
years from now

264
00:11:25,534 –> 00:11:30,139
[laurence]: you know that’s great let me answer
that in two parts and i would love

265
00:11:30,199 –> 00:11:31,760
[laurence]: to bring in brandon slave to answer

266
00:11:31,627 –> 00:11:31,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

267
00:11:32,641 –> 00:11:38,109
[laurence]: the second part here so you know
let me give you a couple of thoughts

268
00:11:38,350 –> 00:11:42,487
[laurence]: you know firstly i think the future
is going to be different from the past

269
00:11:42,727 –> 00:11:47,555
[laurence]: so always looking at these past historical
returns is probably not going to be optimal

270
00:11:48,216 –> 00:11:53,067
[laurence]: you know and let me give you
some some simple examples right firstly the last

271
00:11:53,168 –> 00:11:55,660
[laurence]: decade we had low inflation

272
00:11:55,627 –> 00:11:57,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye okay

273
00:11:57,074 –> 00:11:59,196
[laurence]: low interest rates no

274
00:11:59,331 –> 00:11:59,553
[ramsey_d_smith]: last

275
00:11:59,416 –> 00:12:00,017
[laurence]: tech

276
00:11:59,654 –> 00:11:59,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: week

277
00:12:00,377 –> 00:12:06,484
[laurence]: tail wins and globalization and it was
a great environment for large cap tech going

278
00:12:06,564 –> 00:12:11,933
[laurence]: forward i think everyone recognizes right we
see higher inflation we see higher rates we

279
00:12:12,074 –> 00:12:16,341
[laurence]: see dglobalization you know and the tech
is being regulated

280
00:12:15,900 –> 00:12:16,163
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

281
00:12:17,423 –> 00:12:23,192
[laurence]: beg pardon a recent big merger just
got blocked between microsopt and activision visit so

282
00:12:23,713 –> 00:12:26,938
[laurence]: that you know the world is going
to be different going forward so you know

283
00:12:26,958 –> 00:12:30,224
[laurence]: i think there are a lot of
people who are just alicating you know hundred

284
00:12:30,284 –> 00:12:34,933
[laurence]: percent to a bench mark index so
we want to encourage people to look forward

285
00:12:35,834 –> 00:12:38,887
[laurence]: so the way we do that at
the end ex standard we actually take the

286
00:12:38,947 –> 00:12:44,929
[laurence]: wisdom of wall street we actually go
and collect about thirty five asset managers and

287
00:12:45,029 –> 00:12:50,406
[laurence]: banks their ten year forward looking returns
and then what we do is we actually

288
00:12:50,446 –> 00:12:53,050
[laurence]: apply these these actual

289
00:12:52,800 –> 00:12:52,820
[branislav_nikolic]: m

290
00:12:53,230 –> 00:12:56,937
[laurence]: expected returns to each index and then
we’re able to produce

291
00:12:57,099 –> 00:12:57,120
[branislav_nikolic]: m

292
00:12:57,117 –> 00:12:59,942
[laurence]: a forward looking forecast for each index

293
00:13:00,330 –> 00:13:00,591
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

294
00:13:00,763 –> 00:13:03,529
[laurence]: so hand of the brands who is
going to talk about one of our latest

295
00:13:03,589 –> 00:13:07,858
[laurence]: innovations on what we’ve been doing around
kind of making that more useful for an

296
00:13:07,978 –> 00:13:09,942
[laurence]: f i a over over to you
brandslep

297
00:13:10,470 –> 00:13:14,477
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you laurence so so again the
key for me and one thing that i’m

298
00:13:14,537 –> 00:13:18,904
[branislav_nikolic]: extremely passionate about is how does this
to your point all get sold or how

299
00:13:18,944 –> 00:13:24,457
[branislav_nikolic]: is this presented over virtual or actual
kitchen table right because again who are the

300
00:13:24,497 –> 00:13:30,322
[branislav_nikolic]: buyers of annuities or pre retires or
early retires and you have two motives when

301
00:13:30,462 –> 00:13:35,871
[branislav_nikolic]: one is guaranteed income for life one
is the accumulation with a protected protected downside

302
00:13:36,252 –> 00:13:41,521
[branislav_nikolic]: either or you are looking for your
index more often than not to provide basis

303
00:13:41,601 –> 00:13:46,048
[branislav_nikolic]: of growth if you’re looking on the
accumulation side obvious if you’re looking on the

304
00:13:46,108 –> 00:13:50,976
[branislav_nikolic]: income side you have more and more
products coming in with the ability to harvest

305
00:13:51,137 –> 00:13:56,184
[branislav_nikolic]: some of that index growth and trans
laded into um cost of living adjustment on

306
00:13:56,244 –> 00:13:59,728
[branislav_nikolic]: your income going forward one way or
the other you have to understand the annuity

307
00:14:00,068 –> 00:14:03,845
[branislav_nikolic]: which i will which i like to
think of as like as an engine or

308
00:14:03,885 –> 00:14:06,993
[branislav_nikolic]: a car and you have to think
of an index which i like to think

309
00:14:07,053 –> 00:14:11,902
[branislav_nikolic]: of as a fuel you can have
like perfect grade fuel you put in a

310
00:14:11,922 –> 00:14:16,908
[branislav_nikolic]: bad engine doesn’t go you have a
perfect car put put a basic gasoline in

311
00:14:16,989 –> 00:14:21,526
[branislav_nikolic]: it sant go either like it starts
to cling you need the best combination and

312
00:14:21,566 –> 00:14:27,315
[branislav_nikolic]: this is where i believe that looking
into forecasts first of all coming from a

313
00:14:28,217 –> 00:14:33,526
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence was mentioning with of all street
transformed into how these indessinduscis will do going

314
00:14:33,586 –> 00:14:38,434
[branislav_nikolic]: forward putting down through the annuities to
achieve something that we call it in stand

315
00:14:38,834 –> 00:14:43,883
[branislav_nikolic]: the net forecast yield basically trying to
what would the annuity with a given crediting

316
00:14:43,963 –> 00:14:49,011
[branislav_nikolic]: strategy on a given index provide over
over the next ten years and then on

317
00:14:49,092 –> 00:14:54,080
[branislav_nikolic]: top of that now look into all
of these options and see which two three

318
00:14:54,260 –> 00:15:00,150
[branislav_nikolic]: five options will give you the highest
expected return going forward so again thinking about

319
00:15:00,410 –> 00:15:05,178
[branislav_nikolic]: the design of the engine whether it’s
a strategy whether it’s a parameters are you

320
00:15:05,238 –> 00:15:09,283
[branislav_nikolic]: paying a fee it or not what
type of index are you putting to it

321
00:15:09,363 –> 00:15:12,926
[branislav_nikolic]: if it’s a bench mark you’re usually
getting a fraction of a return if it’s

322
00:15:12,966 –> 00:15:18,276
[branislav_nikolic]: a volatility control you get a multiple
now let’s say that you get ten per

323
00:15:18,356 –> 00:15:22,591
[branislav_nikolic]: cent return on a bench marine dex
and you get half of it okay ten

324
00:15:22,651 –> 00:15:26,056
[branislav_nikolic]: percent are we going to get ten
per cent next year the year after i

325
00:15:26,097 –> 00:15:30,324
[branislav_nikolic]: don’t know but if you get well
till controlled index and you get two three

326
00:15:30,464 –> 00:15:36,613
[branislav_nikolic]: times of it even if it returns
two three percent you’re already doing doing much

327
00:15:36,653 –> 00:15:40,778
[branislav_nikolic]: better all of this has to be
taken taken into context the other one is

328
00:15:40,838 –> 00:15:48,860
[branislav_nikolic]: that probably the truth lies somewhere in
between looking into the history and seeing high

329
00:15:48,940 –> 00:15:54,562
[branislav_nikolic]: returns are you going to see these
going forward no you’re going to see exactly

330
00:15:54,602 –> 00:15:59,430
[branislav_nikolic]: what’s happening in the forecast probably not
but i think these two are perfect basis

331
00:15:59,470 –> 00:16:03,396
[branislav_nikolic]: for conversation one for legal legal reasons
you got to do it because that’s how

332
00:16:03,437 –> 00:16:08,821
[branislav_nikolic]: you sell the annuity and the other
one is to basically show that up done

333
00:16:08,881 –> 00:16:13,149
[branislav_nikolic]: some thinking outside of the box in
terms of due diligence and what could happen

334
00:16:13,269 –> 00:16:17,536
[branislav_nikolic]: and again use this as a cheat
cheat to show how well you understand the

335
00:16:17,596 –> 00:16:20,672
[branislav_nikolic]: whole car plus the fee on a
race track

336
00:16:24,297 –> 00:16:25,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: so a quick question here

337
00:16:25,596 –> 00:16:26,766
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

338
00:16:26,141 –> 00:16:29,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: so this this makes a lot of
sense right for a variety of

339
00:16:29,580 –> 00:16:30,720
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

340
00:16:29,646 –> 00:16:36,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: reasons and the question is has anybody
done this before has there been has there

341
00:16:36,778 –> 00:16:41,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: been primarily a focus on history and
in particular back testing

342
00:16:42,934 –> 00:16:45,197
[laurence]: yeah i think there’s been such

343
00:16:45,180 –> 00:16:46,440
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

344
00:16:45,278 –> 00:16:50,346
[laurence]: a focus in on the industry and
back testing and listen it has a place

345
00:16:50,506 –> 00:16:50,647
[laurence]: but

346
00:16:50,529 –> 00:16:50,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

347
00:16:51,147 –> 00:16:52,369
[laurence]: what we like to say is

348
00:16:52,448 –> 00:16:52,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

349
00:16:53,071 –> 00:16:57,324
[laurence]: take the back test and take the
all cast and sort of think about the

350
00:16:57,538 –> 00:16:57,619
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

351
00:16:57,625 –> 00:17:01,912
[laurence]: using it together let me give you
like a common sense example that we we’ve

352
00:17:01,952 –> 00:17:07,662
[laurence]: been thinking about so right now some
of the large cap tech industries have the

353
00:17:07,722 –> 00:17:13,595
[laurence]: last ten years historical returns of sixteen
per cent so let’s kind of apply common

354
00:17:13,675 –> 00:17:15,116
[laurence]: logic and let’s take apple

355
00:17:14,910 –> 00:17:15,578
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

356
00:17:15,576 –> 00:17:20,601
[laurence]: apples the largest constituent of a lot
of pig teck industries so apple the market

357
00:17:20,661 –> 00:17:25,256
[laurence]: cap right now is about two point
four trillion so if i take that two

358
00:17:25,316 –> 00:17:29,624
[laurence]: point four trillion and i’m going to
compound it at sixteen percent like many

359
00:17:29,647 –> 00:17:29,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

360
00:17:30,025 –> 00:17:34,858
[laurence]: is shown in the the software illustrations
actually that means in ten years time apple

361
00:17:34,898 –> 00:17:40,558
[laurence]: is going to have to have a
market cap of ten trillion dollars now maybe

362
00:17:40,598 –> 00:17:40,919
[laurence]: that’s going

363
00:17:40,957 –> 00:17:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

364
00:17:40,959 –> 00:17:41,940
[laurence]: to happen but

365
00:17:41,850 –> 00:17:42,630
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

366
00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:42,762
[laurence]: like let me give you some

367
00:17:42,660 –> 00:17:42,942
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

368
00:17:42,802 –> 00:17:49,112
[laurence]: context the german g p is three
point eight trillion so it might happen right

369
00:17:49,413 –> 00:17:50,214
[laurence]: but that’s we

370
00:17:50,280 –> 00:17:50,300
[branislav_nikolic]: m

371
00:17:50,414 –> 00:17:54,842
[laurence]: want to encourage people to be diverse
because you know i was just saying i

372
00:17:54,882 –> 00:17:58,187
[laurence]: think it’s going to be a decade
of discomfort right we’ve seen the end of

373
00:17:58,248 –> 00:18:02,238
[laurence]: globalization is going to be difficult so
i think you want to be diverse right

374
00:18:03,114 –> 00:18:07,821
[laurence]: look at emerging markets there their historic
or returns for the last ten years kind

375
00:18:07,861 –> 00:18:11,326
[laurence]: of like about zero maybe they’re going
to do better right you want to put

376
00:18:11,367 –> 00:18:11,387
[laurence]: a

377
00:18:11,409 –> 00:18:11,430
[branislav_nikolic]: m

378
00:18:11,427 –> 00:18:15,433
[laurence]: little bit of money in there right
now everyone’s so bearish about europe but maybe

379
00:18:15,473 –> 00:18:19,200
[laurence]: you want to sprinkle a little bit
in there too so we just think being

380
00:18:19,260 –> 00:18:26,051
[laurence]: diversified is really important and with our
innovation of helping people to choose across complicated

381
00:18:26,452 –> 00:18:31,360
[laurence]: crediting strategies that brands have just outlined
we take that complicated choice between they say

382
00:18:31,761 –> 00:18:35,669
[laurence]: choosing fifty percent of a bench mark
index or two hundred per cent in a

383
00:18:35,730 –> 00:18:40,530
[laurence]: risk control index just make that into
an apples to apples conversation where we can

384
00:18:40,581 –> 00:18:40,682
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

385
00:18:40,630 –> 00:18:43,718
[laurence]: say maybe you’re gonna get five here
and maybe you goin to get eight here

386
00:18:44,199 –> 00:18:45,782
[laurence]: to build a diversified portfolio

387
00:18:46,560 –> 00:18:50,887
[branislav_nikolic]: one thing lawrence that i would like
to add again lawrence being an expert to

388
00:18:50,927 –> 00:18:54,433
[branislav_nikolic]: what i call fuel and industries again
like its great great insight but again looking

389
00:18:54,493 –> 00:18:59,241
[branislav_nikolic]: into just these strategies that you get
in these annuities strategies they are built to

390
00:18:59,681 –> 00:19:04,469
[branislav_nikolic]: harvest the sharp growth you have strategies
that give you cap return so basically you’re

391
00:19:04,489 –> 00:19:08,316
[branislav_nikolic]: looking for a pause that have some
they’re looking for just positive return and then

392
00:19:08,356 –> 00:19:13,765
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re good you have those they are
looking for consistently positive return without any volatility

393
00:19:13,865 –> 00:19:14,085
[branislav_nikolic]: in them

394
00:19:14,947 –> 00:19:15,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

395
00:19:15,328 –> 00:19:19,094
[branislav_nikolic]: how to know again you can have
your view of the market have your outlook

396
00:19:19,695 –> 00:19:23,782
[branislav_nikolic]: but how exactly you know where to
put on so if your money you don’t

397
00:19:23,822 –> 00:19:27,087
[branislav_nikolic]: have to you don’t have to know
that’s why it’s good to diversify that’s why

398
00:19:27,167 –> 00:19:33,518
[branislav_nikolic]: it’s good to diversify strategies crsindusties and
basically get all of these tools available to

399
00:19:33,578 –> 00:19:37,056
[branislav_nikolic]: you working for the for the end
user which is the most important piece

400
00:19:38,589 –> 00:19:38,710
[paul_tyler]: this

401
00:19:38,745 –> 00:19:38,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: and

402
00:19:38,771 –> 00:19:38,831
[paul_tyler]: is

403
00:19:38,886 –> 00:19:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

404
00:19:38,891 –> 00:19:38,912
[paul_tyler]: a

405
00:19:38,946 –> 00:19:39,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: key

406
00:19:38,972 –> 00:19:39,455
[paul_tyler]: complicated

407
00:19:39,168 –> 00:19:39,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: element of this

408
00:19:39,959 –> 00:19:40,362
[paul_tyler]: problem

409
00:19:42,447 –> 00:19:46,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s gonna say a key element of
this is that um figuring

410
00:19:46,050 –> 00:19:46,736
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

411
00:19:46,433 –> 00:19:50,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: out how diversified you are not a
simple problem right so it’s not just

412
00:19:50,580 –> 00:19:50,863
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

413
00:19:51,241 –> 00:19:52,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: um you know joe the advisor

414
00:19:52,740 –> 00:19:53,610
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

415
00:19:53,144 –> 00:19:57,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: saying i’d like i’d like so i’d
like some europe i’d like like some us

416
00:19:57,331 –> 00:20:02,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: exposure et cetera because there are there
are correlations across those various assets as well

417
00:20:02,440 –> 00:20:04,343
[ramsey_d_smith]: so it’s i think

418
00:20:04,294 –> 00:20:04,520
[laurence]: oh

419
00:20:04,383 –> 00:20:09,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: that folks in the audience that would
they’re using a platform like this it’s important

420
00:20:09,131 –> 00:20:14,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: to understand that that it’s you can’t
really do it properly unless you have a

421
00:20:14,240 –> 00:20:21,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: pretty sophisticated engine under the hood to
be able to capture not just the obvious

422
00:20:21,087 –> 00:20:25,654
[ramsey_d_smith]: sources of diversification but also the less
obvious places where you may be is not

423
00:20:25,694 –> 00:20:26,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: as diversified as you think

424
00:20:27,959 –> 00:20:28,100
[paul_tyler]: yeah

425
00:20:28,795 –> 00:20:29,596
[laurence]: that’s a great point

426
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:29,542
[branislav_nikolic]: ye

427
00:20:29,817 –> 00:20:33,743
[laurence]: and you know we do work with
chanics to get some of the data and

428
00:20:33,843 –> 00:20:39,493
[laurence]: brands joined us from them and actually
on our staff we’ve got mostly quits you

429
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:43,079
[laurence]: know we have j watson who’s one
of our other partners he’s got a quant

430
00:20:43,199 –> 00:20:47,847
[laurence]: background we’ve got trent mckenna who also
has masters in finance j has a ph

431
00:20:47,887 –> 00:20:47,907
[laurence]: d

432
00:20:48,067 –> 00:20:48,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

433
00:20:48,107 –> 00:20:51,232
[laurence]: and brand slave has masters and working
on his ph d so

434
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:51,643
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

435
00:20:51,994 –> 00:20:53,236
[laurence]: i’ve only got an m b a
so i’m

436
00:20:53,160 –> 00:20:53,402
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

437
00:20:53,296 –> 00:20:53,416
[laurence]: like

438
00:20:53,317 –> 00:20:53,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

439
00:20:53,496 –> 00:20:54,999
[laurence]: i feel you know these guys are

440
00:20:55,470 –> 00:20:56,790
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

441
00:20:55,860 –> 00:21:00,187
[laurence]: the smart guys that we have here
and yeahit’it’s very complicated and we spend a

442
00:21:00,368 –> 00:21:00,528
[laurence]: lot

443
00:21:00,476 –> 00:21:01,166
[paul_tyler]: oh

444
00:21:00,568 –> 00:21:04,074
[laurence]: of time modeling that out but the
key thing is we want to make it’s

445
00:21:04,234 –> 00:21:06,095
[laurence]: simple for people and present an

446
00:21:06,057 –> 00:21:06,077
[branislav_nikolic]: m

447
00:21:06,276 –> 00:21:09,659
[laurence]: apples to apples comparison we want to
help people and boil it down just what

448
00:21:09,699 –> 00:21:13,542
[laurence]: do you need to know here’s the
apples to apples comparison and here is a

449
00:21:13,582 –> 00:21:14,303
[laurence]: way to allocate

450
00:21:14,786 –> 00:21:15,071
[paul_tyler]: yeah

451
00:21:15,150 –> 00:21:15,170
[branislav_nikolic]: a

452
00:21:15,164 –> 00:21:16,491
[laurence]: this industry is too complicated

453
00:21:17,110 –> 00:21:17,252
[paul_tyler]: look

454
00:21:17,432 –> 00:21:21,599
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence one thing that you touched on
and i think it’s important in ramsey asked

455
00:21:21,639 –> 00:21:24,944
[branislav_nikolic]: this like has anyone done any of
this before and i think that we are

456
00:21:25,004 –> 00:21:29,712
[branislav_nikolic]: trying basically to raise the tide i
think that this industry requires all the parties

457
00:21:29,772 –> 00:21:34,921
[branislav_nikolic]: to collaborate and i think this is
where we get again great data and some

458
00:21:35,021 –> 00:21:37,645
[branislav_nikolic]: simple calculations for mechanics we have our
our index

459
00:21:38,617 –> 00:21:38,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

460
00:21:38,747 –> 00:21:40,910
[branislav_nikolic]: index forecast we have our

461
00:21:40,826 –> 00:21:40,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

462
00:21:41,010 –> 00:21:42,031
[branislav_nikolic]: model locations

463
00:21:42,343 –> 00:21:42,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

464
00:21:42,431 –> 00:21:45,054
[branislav_nikolic]: we are willing to work with others
because at the end of the day i

465
00:21:45,114 –> 00:21:49,678
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is a tide and i
think that shift has to happen it’s important

466
00:21:49,738 –> 00:21:55,141
[branislav_nikolic]: for it to happen again for again
for the end user it’s the most important

467
00:21:55,181 –> 00:22:01,606
[branislav_nikolic]: that this ship happens and legal point
of view will catch up the illustrations their

468
00:22:01,686 –> 00:22:06,514
[branislav_nikolic]: legal requirements the important part of it
but they don’t tell a full story and

469
00:22:06,594 –> 00:22:11,322
[branislav_nikolic]: we are trying to augment that story
that makes it more palatable and easier to

470
00:22:11,362 –> 00:22:16,751
[branislav_nikolic]: have as a conversation today but two
years from now if things don’t turn out

471
00:22:17,413 –> 00:22:20,397
[branislav_nikolic]: like what was shown in illustration that’s
the most important bit

472
00:22:20,887 –> 00:22:21,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

473
00:22:21,256 –> 00:22:25,924
[paul_tyler]: yea let me talk a little bit
more about what diversity actually means

474
00:22:25,777 –> 00:22:26,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

475
00:22:26,805 –> 00:22:27,266
[paul_tyler]: i like the

476
00:22:27,186 –> 00:22:27,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

477
00:22:27,306 –> 00:22:32,795
[paul_tyler]: fact lawrence you say we encourage people
to look at back tested returns against four

478
00:22:32,956 –> 00:22:36,401
[paul_tyler]: acid returns there’s also a time factor
right because

479
00:22:37,276 –> 00:22:37,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

480
00:22:37,804 –> 00:22:43,874
[paul_tyler]: if you think about possible outcomes you
may have one fund that appears to have

481
00:22:44,490 –> 00:22:44,993
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

482
00:22:44,495 –> 00:22:50,605
[paul_tyler]: highest likelihood or industry of great returns
but there are also some outliers right through

483
00:22:50,665 –> 00:22:51,607
[paul_tyler]: some cases where

484
00:22:51,541 –> 00:22:51,994
[laurence]: hm

485
00:22:52,829 –> 00:22:57,977
[paul_tyler]: wow tsa could get zero she might
get twenty and return she might get a

486
00:22:58,078 –> 00:22:59,700
[paul_tyler]: zero now if she’s

487
00:22:59,677 –> 00:22:59,800
[laurence]: yeah

488
00:22:59,760 –> 00:23:02,785
[paul_tyler]: about to retire two years from now
and start to pull money

489
00:23:02,786 –> 00:23:02,806
[laurence]: a

490
00:23:02,946 –> 00:23:06,331
[paul_tyler]: out how do i factor in the
possibility

491
00:23:05,949 –> 00:23:05,990
[laurence]: a

492
00:23:06,492 –> 00:23:08,575
[paul_tyler]: that there might be a zero here

493
00:23:09,444 –> 00:23:13,871
[laurence]: yeah right there’s so so much in
what you’ve asked me that

494
00:23:13,980 –> 00:23:15,030
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

495
00:23:14,292 –> 00:23:15,333
[laurence]: d love to talk about so

496
00:23:15,300 –> 00:23:15,563
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

497
00:23:16,155 –> 00:23:22,004
[laurence]: you know great thought so the first
thing is i think everyone really expect bench

498
00:23:22,084 –> 00:23:27,089
[laurence]: mark industries to give positive returns right
the last ten years accepted this year we’ve

499
00:23:27,129 –> 00:23:30,692
[laurence]: just seen positive return so people have
been treated and we all have this recency

500
00:23:30,812 –> 00:23:35,409
[laurence]: bias now this year we’re probably going
to see a negative on many of the

501
00:23:35,449 –> 00:23:40,136
[laurence]: major bench marks and next year if
you look at some of the one year

502
00:23:40,237 –> 00:23:43,462
[laurence]: forecasts that some of the investment banks
put out a couple of investment banks are

503
00:23:43,522 –> 00:23:44,644
[laurence]: calling for negative

504
00:23:44,400 –> 00:23:44,420
[branislav_nikolic]: m

505
00:23:44,684 –> 00:23:48,550
[laurence]: returns so i think people are going
to be shocked so what you really want

506
00:23:48,611 –> 00:23:53,058
[laurence]: to do is find industries that ying
and yang when you know one is up

507
00:23:53,358 –> 00:23:56,408
[laurence]: the other one’s down and vice versa
right so that’s what you got to find

508
00:23:56,568 –> 00:23:57,892
[laurence]: industries that yang and yang

509
00:23:58,249 –> 00:23:58,469
[bruno_caron]: oh

510
00:23:59,054 –> 00:24:03,178
[laurence]: then you want to blend them in
now why is this important i got to

511
00:24:03,258 –> 00:24:06,801
[laurence]: tell you i think the most important
thing in finance that we all tend to

512
00:24:06,862 –> 00:24:13,190
[laurence]: forget is compounding compounding is the magic
in finance right just by eking out a

513
00:24:13,230 –> 00:24:18,239
[laurence]: little positive return each year the next
year you’re compounding on a higher number so

514
00:24:18,740 –> 00:24:23,267
[laurence]: if you can get your client even
two or three and versus zero that

515
00:24:23,284 –> 00:24:23,367
[bruno_caron]: ah

516
00:24:23,367 –> 00:24:25,110
[laurence]: next year you’re going to start at
one o three

517
00:24:25,020 –> 00:24:25,890
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

518
00:24:25,711 –> 00:24:27,093
[laurence]: kind of compound that return so

519
00:24:27,480 –> 00:24:27,765
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

520
00:24:27,594 –> 00:24:30,960
[laurence]: compounding is the magic that’s what you
want to do is just get your clients

521
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:34,110
[laurence]: a little positive return and you can
build wealth like that

522
00:24:34,980 –> 00:24:37,484
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence i would like to kind of
add to that a bit and i think

523
00:24:37,504 –> 00:24:40,068
[branislav_nikolic]: this is an important one so when
you look into bench mark industries in the

524
00:24:40,128 –> 00:24:44,355
[branislav_nikolic]: last thirty years let’s say you would
see that we had like periods there will

525
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:47,701
[branislav_nikolic]: last like seven or ten years and
then we have a correction so there was

526
00:24:47,761 –> 00:24:51,908
[branislav_nikolic]: no period of twenty years that you
had like positive high positive return there was

527
00:24:52,028 –> 00:24:56,315
[branislav_nikolic]: always something happening in the middle that
would kind of take us back and then

528
00:24:56,335 –> 00:24:57,657
[branislav_nikolic]: you have like the star

529
00:24:57,709 –> 00:24:57,830
[bruno_caron]: ye

530
00:24:57,738 –> 00:24:59,882
[branislav_nikolic]: grow look at a history of those
industries

531
00:24:59,749 –> 00:25:00,014
[bruno_caron]: oh

532
00:25:00,222 –> 00:25:04,431
[branislav_nikolic]: you had periods in thirties forties fifties
even sixties

533
00:25:04,240 –> 00:25:04,341
[bruno_caron]: ah

534
00:25:04,512 –> 00:25:07,618
[branislav_nikolic]: that they had like a constant seven
percent return so if we are

535
00:25:08,134 –> 00:25:08,154
[laurence]: m

536
00:25:08,490 –> 00:25:10,914
[branislav_nikolic]: we can go back at a time
i think that

537
00:25:11,584 –> 00:25:11,888
[laurence]: oh

538
00:25:11,655 –> 00:25:15,281
[branislav_nikolic]: our conversation today will be obsolete if
you have a index returning seven percent year

539
00:25:15,421 –> 00:25:19,869
[branislav_nikolic]: over here here we are talking about
people thinking of averages but the sequence of

540
00:25:19,929 –> 00:25:23,712
[branislav_nikolic]: returns there’s a lot and then that’s
what i think will lawrence is saying i

541
00:25:23,752 –> 00:25:29,057
[branislav_nikolic]: would try to relate to the annuity
folks a little bit different is basically saying

542
00:25:29,097 –> 00:25:33,346
[branislav_nikolic]: that if you have a seven or
ten year annuity are you better off getting

543
00:25:34,670 –> 00:25:36,954
[branislav_nikolic]: solid returns three five

544
00:25:36,919 –> 00:25:36,939
[bruno_caron]: m

545
00:25:37,014 –> 00:25:41,441
[branislav_nikolic]: or seven out of out of ten
years or you should get positive return in

546
00:25:41,521 –> 00:25:45,107
[branislav_nikolic]: all ten of them and again depending
how these are using the plan if you’re

547
00:25:45,187 –> 00:25:50,236
[branislav_nikolic]: living of interest or or that a
fixed fixed credit you want it every year

548
00:25:50,416 –> 00:25:53,221
[branislav_nikolic]: and you want to be able to
plan so i guess it really matters how

549
00:25:53,301 –> 00:25:58,249
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re putting this into into into the
annuity as well another thing that became apparent

550
00:25:58,005 –> 00:25:58,026
[bruno_caron]: a

551
00:25:58,349 –> 00:25:59,912
[branislav_nikolic]: as ere doing the research for the
model

552
00:25:59,749 –> 00:26:00,010
[bruno_caron]: oh

553
00:25:59,972 –> 00:26:04,820
[branislav_nikolic]: of location was that there are some
strategies when you look on a forecast a

554
00:26:04,900 –> 00:26:08,266
[branislav_nikolic]: basis they don’t even bee to fix
rate again fixed rate a year ago we

555
00:26:08,286 –> 00:26:12,132
[branislav_nikolic]: wouldn’t be even talking about it but
today it is like three or four five

556
00:26:12,212 –> 00:26:12,693
[branislav_nikolic]: percent

557
00:26:13,031 –> 00:26:13,444
[laurence]: hm

558
00:26:13,294 –> 00:26:14,136
[branislav_nikolic]: and you have a strategy

559
00:26:13,789 –> 00:26:14,072
[bruno_caron]: yah

560
00:26:14,216 –> 00:26:15,197
[branislav_nikolic]: they have a forecast that

561
00:26:15,288 –> 00:26:15,349
[bruno_caron]: ah

562
00:26:15,297 –> 00:26:20,807
[branislav_nikolic]: any yield or return less than that
now that begs the question why at all

563
00:26:20,887 –> 00:26:26,674
[branislav_nikolic]: participate why don’t ye some of the
security of the high fixed rates going forward

564
00:26:27,094 –> 00:26:31,579
[branislav_nikolic]: and combine that with some with some
other industries again what five per cent will

565
00:26:32,360 –> 00:26:35,605
[branislav_nikolic]: keep you up with inflation of seven
i don’t think so but i don’t think

566
00:26:35,665 –> 00:26:39,431
[branislav_nikolic]: inflation of seven is going to be
year after year so a lot of a

567
00:26:39,491 –> 00:26:43,618
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of things to unpack and it’s
why i think that locating across everything that’s

568
00:26:43,658 –> 00:26:54,384
[branislav_nikolic]: available within annuity looking into this is
the recification strategy versification banking on historically high

569
00:26:54,765 –> 00:26:58,658
[branislav_nikolic]: rates i think there’s a lot a
lot to consider

570
00:26:59,714 –> 00:27:03,200
[laurence]: and actually barn said there’s also another
complexity you sort of people have the choice

571
00:27:03,260 –> 00:27:06,546
[laurence]: sort i choose a one year point
to point or two year or three year

572
00:27:06,766 –> 00:27:10,933
[laurence]: up to a six year right and
that’s another complexity that we look at and

573
00:27:10,993 –> 00:27:13,821
[laurence]: try figure that out so yeah there’s
a lot going on in these in these

574
00:27:13,881 –> 00:27:14,142
[laurence]: products

575
00:27:16,919 –> 00:27:17,400
[bruno_caron]: a lot’s going

576
00:27:17,377 –> 00:27:17,618
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

577
00:27:17,480 –> 00:27:21,587
[bruno_caron]: on to say the least and i
think there’s a lot of material in what

578
00:27:22,489 –> 00:27:24,292
[bruno_caron]: to unpack and what you just said

579
00:27:25,050 –> 00:27:25,920
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

580
00:27:25,113 –> 00:27:34,108
[bruno_caron]: in terms of decumulation the sequence of
return uh and all that diversification um if

581
00:27:34,268 –> 00:27:39,657
[bruno_caron]: we put all the pieces together you
you mentioned that

582
00:27:39,547 –> 00:27:39,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

583
00:27:39,797 –> 00:27:48,852
[bruno_caron]: yeah you’re launching this the model application
for for f i as um first of

584
00:27:48,893 –> 00:27:53,200
[bruno_caron]: all can you tell us a little
bit of you know some of the uh

585
00:27:53,661 –> 00:28:00,452
[bruno_caron]: the time line behind that and what
does that mean ultimately for for the consumer

586
00:28:00,592 –> 00:28:04,681
[bruno_caron]: and how are they going to be
able to use that that’s past to

587
00:28:06,314 –> 00:28:10,361
[laurence]: thanks bruno so we’ve we’ve been working
on this for the last year it’s taken

588
00:28:10,441 –> 00:28:16,291
[laurence]: us some time to model out more
than three thousand crediting strategies and then figure

589
00:28:16,371 –> 00:28:17,613
[laurence]: out an application so

590
00:28:17,580 –> 00:28:17,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

591
00:28:17,794 –> 00:28:19,837
[laurence]: you’re going to be launching in january

592
00:28:20,169 –> 00:28:20,349
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

593
00:28:20,578 –> 00:28:24,565
[laurence]: um you know we’re starting to tell
people and in fact we’re grateful to be

594
00:28:24,645 –> 00:28:27,910
[laurence]: here on on the on the podcast
right now and that’s part of our mission

595
00:28:27,990 –> 00:28:32,658
[laurence]: to tell people and so through the
course of december we’ll be letting a lot

596
00:28:32,698 –> 00:28:37,727
[laurence]: of our partners insurance carriers know and
then mid mid to end of jane we’ll

597
00:28:37,767 –> 00:28:41,172
[laurence]: be launching formally going to market and
telling everyone about it

598
00:28:41,311 –> 00:28:41,351
[branislav_nikolic]: m

599
00:28:41,633 –> 00:28:42,454
[laurence]: make and available

600
00:28:42,579 –> 00:28:42,600
[branislav_nikolic]: m

601
00:28:42,955 –> 00:28:47,300
[laurence]: we’ve already got one or two partners
who’ve signed on so we’re excited because it

602
00:28:47,340 –> 00:28:49,503
[laurence]: helps our mission we want to see
people do better

603
00:28:52,717 –> 00:28:53,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was

604
00:28:53,160 –> 00:28:53,381
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

605
00:28:53,638 –> 00:29:03,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: i was recently in a conversation with
listen fairly sizable financial institution in you know

606
00:29:03,271 –> 00:29:09,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the advisory space i’ll say and
they were trying to figure out different ways

607
00:29:09,139 –> 00:29:15,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to incorporate more annuities into their
their platform and one of the challenges was

608
00:29:15,570 –> 00:29:21,240
[ramsey_d_smith]: that increasingly the advisors were being asked
less and less to make investment decisions and

609
00:29:21,260 –> 00:29:25,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were more focused on relationship management
and so the implication of that is that

610
00:29:25,687 –> 00:29:25,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

611
00:29:25,944 –> 00:29:26,089
[laurence]: yeah

612
00:29:26,308 –> 00:29:32,703
[ramsey_d_smith]: that the investment strategies the acid application
strategies actually come from a central source right

613
00:29:33,085 –> 00:29:36,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: and the centralized sources need to use

614
00:29:36,157 –> 00:29:36,342
[laurence]: yeah

615
00:29:36,568 –> 00:29:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: rely on models that use a lot
of data and so you think about use

616
00:29:41,717 –> 00:29:47,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: cases what you’re building here lawrence and
brandaslav is that you’re bringing you’re bringing robt

617
00:29:47,748 –> 00:29:53,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: data you know where it didn’t exist
before so that it can potentially be used

618
00:29:53,384 –> 00:29:57,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: at a you know at a sort
of an entity level

619
00:29:57,137 –> 00:29:57,281
[laurence]: kay

620
00:29:57,331 –> 00:30:01,117
[ramsey_d_smith]: if you will i like to call
it factory settings right at an entity level

621
00:30:01,698 –> 00:30:07,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: nd level for larger financial institutions so
that at the end of the day know

622
00:30:07,347 –> 00:30:11,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: the advisor the advisor will be able
to rely on something that’s been fully veded

623
00:30:11,655 –> 00:30:15,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: at an institutional level but in order
for all that to work you know you

624
00:30:15,641 –> 00:30:20,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: have to have reliable data and to
your point earlier it didn’t really didn’t exist

625
00:30:20,469 –> 00:30:27,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: across the whole sort of spectrum of
offerings until guys launch this product so grat

626
00:30:30,174 –> 00:30:34,061
[laurence]: yeah thank you know i’ll make a
remark and then see if brandon has anything

627
00:30:34,121 –> 00:30:38,268
[laurence]: to add you know one of the
things we see having worked for a large

628
00:30:38,328 –> 00:30:42,876
[laurence]: financial institution in my in my prior
life one of the key things is everyone

629
00:30:42,956 –> 00:30:44,920
[laurence]: wants some kind of forecast

630
00:30:45,007 –> 00:30:45,108
[paul_tyler]: ah

631
00:30:45,301 –> 00:30:50,912
[laurence]: expected returns expected volatility what’s the correlation
they need those to plug into their model

632
00:30:52,064 –> 00:30:55,369
[laurence]: and in the annuity space there’s been
nothing now with what we do at the

633
00:30:55,429 –> 00:31:00,758
[laurence]: ende standard we’re able to provide expected
returns expected volatility and we know the correlation

634
00:31:00,838 –> 00:31:06,330
[laurence]: so we can help feel those those
dis sons that these institutions are having we

635
00:31:06,390 –> 00:31:12,104
[laurence]: can provide the imputs and i think
my final observation is this that i think

636
00:31:12,144 –> 00:31:17,473
[laurence]: if you were to use some of
the expect to expected returns we see i

637
00:31:17,553 –> 00:31:21,901
[laurence]: think the annuities would get a bigger
allocation than they have been because you know

638
00:31:21,981 –> 00:31:26,369
[laurence]: they have no downside risking case of
fear arilayouknow it’s kept and some

639
00:31:26,400 –> 00:31:26,640
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

640
00:31:26,409 –> 00:31:30,416
[laurence]: of the expected returns might be three
four five six very consistent so i think

641
00:31:30,437 –> 00:31:33,082
[laurence]: they get a larger allocation and that
would surprise

642
00:31:32,802 –> 00:31:32,967
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

643
00:31:33,142 –> 00:31:34,744
[laurence]: a lot of people brand left

644
00:31:35,852 –> 00:31:40,440
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah i think there’s there’s like to
two levels of this conversation one is how

645
00:31:40,480 –> 00:31:44,667
[branislav_nikolic]: do you incorporate is in the broader
porfolia and when lawrence mentioned knowing what this

646
00:31:44,727 –> 00:31:50,597
[branislav_nikolic]: could return at what level of i
think would make advisors more comfortable again we

647
00:31:50,677 –> 00:31:55,565
[branislav_nikolic]: have a generation of advisors who grew
up in a in a bull market right

648
00:31:55,705 –> 00:32:02,256
[branislav_nikolic]: and would you ever consider an annuity
a safe investment downside when you never had

649
00:32:02,356 –> 00:32:06,183
[branislav_nikolic]: to now i think we are getting
to that realization that that that that’s goin

650
00:32:06,223 –> 00:32:11,652
[branislav_nikolic]: to start happening and again a lot
of great too is available out there a

651
00:32:11,712 –> 00:32:18,643
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of a lot of parties providing
phenomenal either end to end processes or optimal

652
00:32:18,784 –> 00:32:25,398
[branislav_nikolic]: product locations or simulators of how well
you do where you lock should locate your

653
00:32:25,498 –> 00:32:31,701
[branislav_nikolic]: assets the key is that no one
knew how to project ger quotes the annuity

654
00:32:31,781 –> 00:32:32,943
[branislav_nikolic]: going forward and i

655
00:32:33,013 –> 00:32:33,034
[laurence]: m

656
00:32:33,023 –> 00:32:36,487
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is this is important piece
that we that we bring bring bring to

657
00:32:36,547 –> 00:32:36,627
[branislav_nikolic]: the

658
00:32:36,561 –> 00:32:36,643
[paul_tyler]: ah

659
00:32:36,667 –> 00:32:44,366
[branislav_nikolic]: table again something that it’s showing not
only in the retail market but

660
00:32:44,376 –> 00:32:45,516
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

661
00:32:44,447 –> 00:32:49,495
[branislav_nikolic]: more importantly now spilling over into an
institutional market as well the people are adopting

662
00:32:49,555 –> 00:32:55,685
[branislav_nikolic]: these concepts d c pension plan level
that really kind of add the validity to

663
00:32:55,765 –> 00:33:00,493
[branislav_nikolic]: it and it kind of adds to
the eds conversation that if super conservative folks

664
00:33:00,694 –> 00:33:02,637
[branislav_nikolic]: and legal kind of legally aware

665
00:33:03,146 –> 00:33:03,896
[paul_tyler]: oh

666
00:33:04,361 –> 00:33:09,062
[branislav_nikolic]: are considering adding these into the mix
had to be a good thing so so

667
00:33:09,162 –> 00:33:12,846
[branislav_nikolic]: so at a lot a lot is
happening and we we we love to be

668
00:33:13,006 –> 00:33:15,049
[branislav_nikolic]: to be a part of part of
that conversation for sure

669
00:33:14,946 –> 00:33:15,127
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

670
00:33:15,786 –> 00:33:20,534
[paul_tyler]: no i honestly think you could be
the next morning star right in the

671
00:33:20,670 –> 00:33:21,270
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

672
00:33:21,055 –> 00:33:23,919
[paul_tyler]: space i don’t know if that infringes
on cope

673
00:33:23,820 –> 00:33:24,265
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

674
00:33:24,040 –> 00:33:24,540
[paul_tyler]: rites but

675
00:33:24,484 –> 00:33:24,705
[laurence]: oh

676
00:33:25,101 –> 00:33:25,602
[paul_tyler]: lawrence that’s what

677
00:33:25,590 –> 00:33:25,870
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

678
00:33:25,642 –> 00:33:25,983
[paul_tyler]: i call you

679
00:33:26,631 –> 00:33:26,872
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

680
00:33:26,684 –> 00:33:30,711
[paul_tyler]: so you know ve been doing so
much work with you know agents helping themselves

681
00:33:30,791 –> 00:33:31,232
[paul_tyler]: digitally

682
00:33:30,999 –> 00:33:31,200
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

683
00:33:31,312 –> 00:33:33,495
[paul_tyler]: tell a story talking to consumers

684
00:33:33,345 –> 00:33:33,366
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

685
00:33:34,016 –> 00:33:39,525
[paul_tyler]: you know what goes through your mind
when you think about trying explain something this

686
00:33:39,626 –> 00:33:43,439
[paul_tyler]: complex on a website in a brosirt
in a video

687
00:33:43,609 –> 00:33:48,051
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm yeah i mean when i think
lawrence i heard you talk about you know

688
00:33:48,292 –> 00:33:51,196
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the mer and missus smith or the
generic consumer

689
00:33:51,630 –> 00:33:52,710
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

690
00:33:51,757 –> 00:33:57,648
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: are retiring out there thinking about planning
and de mystifying the idea of an annuity

691
00:33:57,709 –> 00:34:04,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: and the complexities of what we’re talking
about how does your presentation or or the

692
00:34:04,933 –> 00:34:08,679
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: educational tools at you’re offering how does
it break it down for them to kind

693
00:34:08,719 –> 00:34:14,849
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of combat the emotional side of the
decision right um you’ve talked about the changing

694
00:34:15,911 –> 00:34:18,896
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: interest rates and inflation and all the
things that are ahead and a lot of

695
00:34:18,936 –> 00:34:23,183
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the unknowns that are on head ahead
how does the tool kind of speak to

696
00:34:23,223 –> 00:34:23,384
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that

697
00:34:23,454 –> 00:34:23,596
[laurence]: yeah

698
00:34:23,564 –> 00:34:26,688
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: emotional side oh i’ll say fear but

699
00:34:27,314 –> 00:34:27,743
[laurence]: damn

700
00:34:27,469 –> 00:34:30,953
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at least sort of that uncertainty that’s
ahead and that agent or advisor bringing him

701
00:34:31,013 –> 00:34:32,875
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: through those conversations

702
00:34:32,190 –> 00:34:33,090
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

703
00:34:34,354 –> 00:34:39,723
[laurence]: i think in a couple ways so
firstly what we do is for each index

704
00:34:39,943 –> 00:34:44,010
[laurence]: we evaluated so we’ll put a platinum
gold and silver

705
00:34:43,746 –> 00:34:43,908
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

706
00:34:44,070 –> 00:34:44,992
[laurence]: and so on so that

707
00:34:45,028 –> 00:34:45,495
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: got reading

708
00:34:45,392 –> 00:34:48,718
[laurence]: you can add glance see what that
index is doing so it

709
00:34:48,722 –> 00:34:49,236
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

710
00:34:48,758 –> 00:34:52,604
[laurence]: might be a little bit unfamiliar but
you get our sort of stamp of whether

711
00:34:52,644 –> 00:34:57,292
[laurence]: we think it’s a robust and well
designed index now the other thing we do

712
00:34:57,733 –> 00:35:03,445
[laurence]: is we all know finance is complex
and people love to use complicated

713
00:35:03,330 –> 00:35:03,596
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

714
00:35:03,505 –> 00:35:04,368
[laurence]: language so we actually

715
00:35:04,290 –> 00:35:05,460
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

716
00:35:04,448 –> 00:35:06,052
[laurence]: have a copy writer on our staff

717
00:35:06,177 –> 00:35:06,360
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

718
00:35:06,714 –> 00:35:10,484
[laurence]: and we try and use straight forward
and clear language so i give you the

719
00:35:10,544 –> 00:35:16,560
[laurence]: example the way we would describe a
risk control index we just say cushions and

720
00:35:16,620 –> 00:35:17,102
[laurence]: it’s smooth

721
00:35:18,369 –> 00:35:18,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

722
00:35:18,504 –> 00:35:22,472
[laurence]: and then the final thing that we
do is we have our forecasting reports

723
00:35:22,800 –> 00:35:23,041
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

724
00:35:23,804 –> 00:35:26,711
[laurence]: and we very clearly show here that
the last ten

725
00:35:26,639 –> 00:35:26,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

726
00:35:26,771 –> 00:35:32,121
[laurence]: years maybe you got let’s say six
per cent and then here is what how

727
00:35:32,201 –> 00:35:35,206
[laurence]: we applied the wisdom of wall street
to that index and maybe you’re gonna get

728
00:35:35,867 –> 00:35:40,415
[laurence]: seven eight or nine or maybe you
got sixteen in history and we think you’re

729
00:35:40,435 –> 00:35:44,181
[laurence]: going to get full but we have
very clear bar chart so we try and

730
00:35:44,261 –> 00:35:52,475
[laurence]: provide people with visual simple language and
easy to understand demonicaswgoald platinum and

731
00:35:52,466 –> 00:35:53,156
[paul_tyler]: yeah

732
00:35:52,535 –> 00:35:52,836
[laurence]: so on

733
00:35:52,827 –> 00:35:53,256
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

734
00:35:53,217 –> 00:35:55,683
[laurence]: to really help people when they’re making
those decisions

735
00:35:55,976 –> 00:35:56,436
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah the gold

736
00:35:56,317 –> 00:35:56,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah

737
00:35:56,476 –> 00:35:58,578
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: silver plate that’s you know those are
the star

738
00:35:58,556 –> 00:35:58,879
[paul_tyler]: oh

739
00:35:58,678 –> 00:35:59,579
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: reviews rights really

740
00:35:59,486 –> 00:35:59,707
[paul_tyler]: oh

741
00:35:59,679 –> 00:36:00,140
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at a glance

742
00:36:00,990 –> 00:36:01,231
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

743
00:36:01,261 –> 00:36:02,662
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: here’s the top middle and maybe

744
00:36:02,899 –> 00:36:03,039
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

745
00:36:03,142 –> 00:36:03,282
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: not

746
00:36:03,326 –> 00:36:03,694
[paul_tyler]: oh

747
00:36:03,382 –> 00:36:04,383
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so good

748
00:36:04,755 –> 00:36:05,159
[laurence]: exactly

749
00:36:05,216 –> 00:36:05,396
[paul_tyler]: yeah

750
00:36:05,700 –> 00:36:06,143
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

751
00:36:05,765 –> 00:36:06,105
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you

752
00:36:06,918 –> 00:36:06,938
[paul_tyler]: i

753
00:36:07,006 –> 00:36:07,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

754
00:36:07,058 –> 00:36:09,320
[paul_tyler]: love it bruno you know we’re close
to the top

755
00:36:09,318 –> 00:36:09,339
[branislav_nikolic]: a

756
00:36:09,360 –> 00:36:09,881
[paul_tyler]: of the hour i mean

757
00:36:09,937 –> 00:36:10,139
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

758
00:36:09,941 –> 00:36:11,622
[paul_tyler]: what are your what

759
00:36:11,557 –> 00:36:11,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

760
00:36:11,662 –> 00:36:11,863
[paul_tyler]: are your

761
00:36:11,860 –> 00:36:11,940
[bruno_caron]: ah

762
00:36:11,883 –> 00:36:13,464
[paul_tyler]: thoughts questions observations

763
00:36:14,324 –> 00:36:14,544
[bruno_caron]: well

764
00:36:14,846 –> 00:36:15,626
[paul_tyler]: oh

765
00:36:15,085 –> 00:36:16,307
[bruno_caron]: number one i think it’s

766
00:36:16,567 –> 00:36:16,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

767
00:36:17,469 –> 00:36:18,391
[bruno_caron]: it’s wonderful

768
00:36:18,307 –> 00:36:18,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

769
00:36:18,511 –> 00:36:23,138
[bruno_caron]: that we’re going back or at least
you guys are going back to some of

770
00:36:23,319 –> 00:36:28,828
[bruno_caron]: basic some of the textbook concepts i
mean we live in a world of headlines

771
00:36:29,189 –> 00:36:29,489
[bruno_caron]: and you

772
00:36:29,460 –> 00:36:29,763
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

773
00:36:29,509 –> 00:36:33,516
[bruno_caron]: know this is going on this is
going to just the fact that you’re framing

774
00:36:33,556 –> 00:36:38,524
[bruno_caron]: it that you’re actually putting it in
to a um some sort of framework some

775
00:36:38,584 –> 00:36:44,494
[bruno_caron]: sort of boundaries and sort of ratings
and in perspective with with the rest of

776
00:36:44,514 –> 00:36:49,242
[bruno_caron]: the economy i think that adds significant
value and i think that’s a that’s a

777
00:36:49,302 –> 00:36:52,386
[bruno_caron]: really that’s a very useful set for
for the industry

778
00:36:52,216 –> 00:36:52,237
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

779
00:36:54,138 –> 00:36:54,499
[paul_tyler]: ramsey

780
00:36:54,205 –> 00:36:54,512
[laurence]: thank you

781
00:36:55,057 –> 00:36:55,341
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

782
00:36:55,112 –> 00:36:55,377
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you

783
00:36:55,423 –> 00:36:56,126
[paul_tyler]: you want you want to bring

784
00:36:56,174 –> 00:36:56,317
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

785
00:36:56,187 –> 00:36:56,448
[paul_tyler]: us some

786
00:36:57,027 –> 00:37:02,195
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah so i wholeheartedly agree this is
this is an area that’s expanded

787
00:37:03,026 –> 00:37:03,312
[paul_tyler]: oh

788
00:37:03,187 –> 00:37:06,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: dramatically and again the choices expanded

789
00:37:06,656 –> 00:37:06,923
[paul_tyler]: oh

790
00:37:06,753 –> 00:37:10,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: much more quickly than the analytical framework
behind it and

791
00:37:10,925 –> 00:37:10,946
[paul_tyler]: m

792
00:37:11,200 –> 00:37:15,447
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know we live in a we
live in an environment where the elytics

793
00:37:15,390 –> 00:37:15,755
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

794
00:37:15,487 –> 00:37:18,112
[ramsey_d_smith]: are important they’re important for legal reasons
they’re important for

795
00:37:18,101 –> 00:37:18,202
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

796
00:37:18,432 –> 00:37:23,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: just helping people make the make the
right decision they’re important for helping people feel

797
00:37:23,921 –> 00:37:30,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: comfortable with their decisions and you know
as as i mentioned before i think it’s

798
00:37:30,592 –> 00:37:36,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: going to be useful certainly at the
consumer level at the advisor level i think

799
00:37:36,742 –> 00:37:42,249
[ramsey_d_smith]: very importantly at the institutional level where
you know the burdens of the burdens of

800
00:37:42,870 –> 00:37:46,513
[ramsey_d_smith]: proof if you will are very high
i think that this is this is this

801
00:37:46,573 –> 00:37:51,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: is going to be very important and
and it’s something that gets asked about a

802
00:37:51,407 –> 00:37:53,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of meetings when you’re if you’re
talking to

803
00:37:53,824 –> 00:37:54,454
[laurence]: oh

804
00:37:53,971 –> 00:37:57,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: larger insurance companies and this is something
that comes up a lot this isn’t this

805
00:37:57,537 –> 00:38:02,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: has been an unanswered question so i
think this is this is this is this

806
00:38:02,325 –> 00:38:03,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a great initiative

807
00:38:05,656 –> 00:38:07,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah lawrence you know you saw

808
00:38:08,107 –> 00:38:08,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

809
00:38:08,180 –> 00:38:08,841
[paul_tyler]: afa on

810
00:38:08,880 –> 00:38:09,750
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

811
00:38:09,602 –> 00:38:10,163
[paul_tyler]: that discussion

812
00:38:10,140 –> 00:38:10,321
[branislav_nikolic]: ye

813
00:38:10,243 –> 00:38:11,926
[paul_tyler]: panel how much

814
00:38:12,157 –> 00:38:12,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

815
00:38:12,780 –> 00:38:13,620
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

816
00:38:13,248 –> 00:38:14,491
[paul_tyler]: independent marketing organizations

817
00:38:14,122 –> 00:38:14,286
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

818
00:38:14,891 –> 00:38:18,577
[paul_tyler]: need this type of tool for their
marketers and for their agent so i think

819
00:38:18,617 –> 00:38:23,382
[paul_tyler]: the time couldn’t be better what’s the
best way for people to find out more

820
00:38:23,462 –> 00:38:26,024
[paul_tyler]: about your product or reach out to
you personally

821
00:38:27,034 –> 00:38:33,965
[laurence]: sure so our website has a lot
of greater information and that’s the index standard

822
00:38:34,025 –> 00:38:38,854
[laurence]: dot com and you can email us
at info at the index standard dot com

823
00:38:39,475 –> 00:38:44,062
[laurence]: i’m also pretty active on linked in
so brandon slab please follow us we also

824
00:38:44,122 –> 00:38:48,229
[laurence]: have linked in at the index standard
follow us and we kind of put some

825
00:38:48,429 –> 00:38:51,786
[laurence]: our insights there and of course our
newsletter as well with with you guys

826
00:38:52,516 –> 00:38:55,721
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right well listen thanks so
much for joining us we

827
00:38:55,770 –> 00:38:56,011
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

828
00:38:55,781 –> 00:39:00,509
[paul_tyler]: want to thank all our listeners and
you know please give us feedback comments and

829
00:39:00,649 –> 00:39:02,412
[paul_tyler]: as long as they’re good bruno i

830
00:39:02,400 –> 00:39:02,701
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

831
00:39:02,492 –> 00:39:02,713
[paul_tyler]: actually

832
00:39:02,644 –> 00:39:02,726
[laurence]: ye

833
00:39:02,733 –> 00:39:04,676
[paul_tyler]: had somebody coming on my audio

834
00:39:04,661 –> 00:39:04,681
[branislav_nikolic]: m

835
00:39:04,796 –> 00:39:05,518
[paul_tyler]: editing skills and

836
00:39:06,319 –> 00:39:09,769
[bruno_caron]: uh

837
00:39:06,720 –> 00:39:06,981
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

838
00:39:07,601 –> 00:39:08,462
[paul_tyler]: a lack thereof

839
00:39:08,688 –> 00:39:08,889
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

840
00:39:09,244 –> 00:39:10,826
[paul_tyler]: so we we welcome all

841
00:39:10,710 –> 00:39:10,930
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

842
00:39:11,067 –> 00:39:13,050
[paul_tyler]: and you know listen join us again
next

843
00:39:13,058 –> 00:39:13,078
[bruno_caron]: h

844
00:39:13,150 –> 00:39:16,316
[paul_tyler]: week for another episode of that annuity

845
00:39:16,419 –> 00:39:16,479
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

846
00:39:16,436 –> 00:39:17,242
[paul_tyler]: show thanks

847
00:39:20,767 –> 00:39:21,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

848
00:39:33,487 –> 00:39:37,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh oh

Nick DesrocherEpisode 176: Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic
read more