Bruno Caron

Episode 138: Sizing the Prize of Institutional Annuities with Martin Powell and Bruno Caron

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We opened our digital papers a few weeks ago to read an article in AM Best News entitled, “Annuity Providers See Growth Opportunity in US Retirement Plan Changes.” Who was quoted but none other than two regular guests – Martin Powell, Head of Annuity Distribution for CUNA Mutual and Bruno Caron Associate Director at AM Best. It’s a big prize. Even converting a small share of the $7.3 trillion in assets in 401(k) plans to annuities would prove transformational for the industry. We decided to “double click” on the article and bring in both experts to continue the discussion.

Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

We hope you enjoy the show.

Links mentioned today:

https://news.ambest.com/newscontent.aspx?refnum=239183&altsrc=114

Martin Powell:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-powell-4790b01a/

Bruno Caron:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruno-caron-68a303/

Thank you to our show sponsor, CUNA Mutual!

Built on the principle of “people helping people,” CUNA Mutual Group is a financially strong insurance, investment and financial services company that believes a brighter financial future should be accessible to everyone. Through our company culture, community engagement, and products and solutions, we are working to create a more equitable financial system that helps to improve the lives of those we serve and our society. For more information, visit cunamutual.com/annuities.

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Transcript

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[Paul Tyler]: Hi, this is Paul Tyler, and welcome to a. another episode of that annuity show

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[Paul Tyler]: and uh, uh, Mark Ramsey, good to see you.

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: as always great being here

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[Ramsey Smith]: Great to be here. Always

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, and uh, you know. every once in a while you know we. we see breaking news

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[Paul Tyler]: and we say Wow, look at this. Our, Our, The Our universes are colliding and Um.

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[Paul Tyler]: in um,

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[Paul Tyler]: uh, A Ms. news actually came across. Uh, recently released an article entitled

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[Paul Tyler]: The annuity providers see growth opportunity in U. S retirement Plan changes. We’ve

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[Paul Tyler]: been talking about the secure act. We’ve been talking about the opportunity in

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[Paul Tyler]: in, uh in in some of the the institutional retirement plans, And who’s ▁quoted.

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[Paul Tyler]: But we have a picture of Bruno Car and Bruno. welcome to a show.

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[Bruno Caron]: thank you great to be back here

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, D, no, lovely and uh, Martin Powell, uh, from CUNA Mutual, who is head of

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[Paul Tyler]: the Unity distribution. Martin, We got you on as well, Martin. Welcome.

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[Martin Powell]: to be back could seeing everybody

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, yeah, glad to have you. So two two regular, uh, guests now, Martin. you’re

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[Paul Tyler]: now regular on the show, Um, we, we’ll put that in our show notes. Um, but uh,

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[Paul Tyler]: uh, real interesting opportunity. thought it was timely to talk about. Only you

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[Paul Tyler]: know W. how big is this market going? How quick is it going to change? And and

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[Paul Tyler]: just generally you know where’s the annuity industry going Toead In the next you

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[Paul Tyler]: know, couple of quarters. Given all the turmoil. Um, so um, Ramsey. How kind ofl

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[Paul Tyler]: have you lead off? This is uh, an important area for you in a lot of focus.

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[Ramsey Smith]: sure,

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[Paul Tyler]: Um, where shall we start

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[Ramsey Smith]: so I think maybe the the biggest potential opportunity in the retirement

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[Ramsey Smith]: income space is with four one plans, so implant annuities and it’s an area

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[Ramsey Smith]: that’s been under developed for a variety of reasons. Part of it that uh

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[Ramsey Smith]: hopefully has been cured by the advent of the secure act, But there’s still

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[Ramsey Smith]: a whole lot more work to do in the space and uh, so I was fascinated when I

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[Ramsey Smith]: saw this article that featured Uh. Bruno and Martin, You know, talking about

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[Ramsey Smith]: where what the potential is there. I think that’s I think it is. Uh. I think

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[Ramsey Smith]: is is the one place that might help to save the retirement income problem

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[Ramsey Smith]: that we have you know across the broadest possible audience. So uh, from my

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[Ramsey Smith]: perspective, this is this is. This may be the most most important mission of

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[Ramsey Smith]: the insurance industry. So Martin and Bruno, you guys are on the front

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[Ramsey Smith]: lines. Uh, and you know you know, Martin, You know you are. You run an annuity

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[Ramsey Smith]: distribution, So you, you know very much. What’s what’s Uh, You know what’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: on the horizon for Cuna Bruno. You have a fantastic perspective across the

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[Ramsey Smith]: industry In your role at a M. best, so we’re just we’re really looking

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[Ramsey Smith]: forward to hearing from both of you One. your perspectives on what you’re

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[Ramsey Smith]: seeing, and too, your perspective on where you think you’d like to see.

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[Ramsey Smith]: You’d like to see things go. So so Martin, why do we start with you and and

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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin? even though you were just on our last show? Please re, introduce

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[Ramsey Smith]: yourself a little bit. because we, we have the the benefit of doing back to

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[Ramsey Smith]: back recordings today, which has been great.

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[Martin Powell]: well thanks thanks for having me back and it’s martin powell i’m responsible for

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[Martin Powell]: annuity distribution for community cut a mutual group historically been focused

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[Martin Powell]: just on credit unions now’ outside with independent and bank broker dealers

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[Martin Powell]: selling our annuity products and uh we’re growing

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[Martin Powell]: to be a top twenty an new distributor in the country and we’re really bullish on

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[Martin Powell]: the annuity market because it really drives at our mission to help people get

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[Martin Powell]: access to a brighter financial future and

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[Martin Powell]: we really see that this

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[Martin Powell]: opportunity

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[Martin Powell]: to continue to grow not only through financial advisers because its annuities

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[Martin Powell]: today are sold through a financial advisor sitting face to face with somebody

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[Martin Powell]: who is near retirement or in retirement talking about income protection

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[Martin Powell]: and as all of us on this call know that annuity is the only product in the world

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[Martin Powell]: that provides a personal pension and the best longevity insurance you can

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[Martin Powell]: get

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[Martin Powell]: but now introducing it to a four hundred one thousand plan it’s just powerful

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[Martin Powell]: especially if you can

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[Martin Powell]: you know similar to what they do now in four hundred one thousand plans they you

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[Martin Powell]: have to opt out

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[Martin Powell]: versus opt in and we’ve seen the numbers change dramatically with four four o one

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[Martin Powell]: k um

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[Martin Powell]: same thing here where you they can opt they need to opt out potentially of

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[Martin Powell]: getting annuity because once again people need this product and their portfolio

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[Martin Powell]: and it’s going to raise the awareness it’s gonna get more people educated

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[Martin Powell]: on protecting

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[Martin Powell]: their income stream and protecting against longevity so i think it’s really

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[Martin Powell]: exciting to see the development and for us as a company to work on our strategy

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[Martin Powell]: to ultimately at some point in time induce space as well to get not just with the

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[Martin Powell]: financial advisers but to ultimately get with the plan sponsors and the ultimate

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[Martin Powell]: employees

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[Martin Powell]: getting opportunities to protect their um retirement

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[Paul Tyler]: and Bruno Ramsey said, I love his declaration. The biggest opportunity that

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[Paul Tyler]: the annuity industry faces

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[Paul Tyler]: the next five to ten years, true or false,

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[Bruno Caron]: true absolutely true

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[Bruno Caron]: and uh you know definitely echoing ah Ramsey and and martin comments uh j just

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[Bruno Caron]: earlier and

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[Martin Powell]: no

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[Bruno Caron]: it it’s is nice for for us as as as rating analysts i mean obviously the the biggest

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[Bruno Caron]: product we offer at the

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[Bruno Caron]: but at the same time it is important for us

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[Bruno Caron]: you know to to always get back to fundamentals

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[Bruno Caron]: and

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: you know we always we always in constant conversations with our colleagues on the

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[Bruno Caron]: on the pnc side and you know this whole concept of risk cooling is so fundamental

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[Bruno Caron]: and the you know most people i know uh will earn more in a year than the value of

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[Bruno Caron]: their car

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[Bruno Caron]: and that that’s just you know you know people who make fifty thousand dollars

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[Bruno Caron]: will most likely have a card that’s worth a little less than that uh a hundred

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[Bruno Caron]: thousand dollars two hundred thousand dollars whatever your number is

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[Bruno Caron]: and yet people risk pool the risk of

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[Bruno Caron]: uh damaging their car if their car you know they have an accident and they have

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[Bruno Caron]: you know the risk pool that that risk through car insurance

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[Bruno Caron]: and

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes

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[Bruno Caron]: you know think about earnings when it make sense to risk pool that the value of

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[Bruno Caron]: earnings you know if you outlive

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[Bruno Caron]: your your your life expectancy by one year

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[Bruno Caron]: two years a decade two decades uh

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[Bruno Caron]: doesn’t it make sense to have that type of risk pooling you know w within your

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[Bruno Caron]: retirement planning and i think the answer is yes i think you know to go back to

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[Bruno Caron]: your question

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[Bruno Caron]: true absolutely true i think it’s a huge opportunity the

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[Bruno Caron]: the insurance industry has you know at at the forefront and there’s been a lot of

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[Bruno Caron]: improvement there’s been a lot of development you mentioned so i think it’s it’s

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[Bruno Caron]: a very very exciting time for for lifetime income

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[Ramsey Smith]: So should we revisit this? this idea of opting versus opt out, because I

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[Ramsey Smith]: think it’s a very importantlynch in in whether or not this works. So so

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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin, you mentioned, Uh, opt out as being part of the future. Um,

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[Ramsey Smith]: how important do you think that is to the success of of impuities?

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[Ramsey Smith]: If if consumers can simply elect or or have to elect in order to get

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[Ramsey Smith]: guaranteed income?

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[Ramsey Smith]: what kind of what kind of take rates would youpo More orders of magnitude,

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[Ramsey Smith]: not’ not looking for specific statistics, But how much of a difference do

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[Ramsey Smith]: you think it makes you know based on your your years of experience,

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[Martin Powell]: it makes a tremendous difference that if people

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[Martin Powell]: have tot out and go their way they’re going to be so much more successful of of

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[Martin Powell]: saving in their four one k plan and take advantage of the benefits of a form one

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[Martin Powell]: k and the same thing here um

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[Martin Powell]: they need to ensure

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[Martin Powell]: their income for your life and

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: alright good morning everybody

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[Martin Powell]: great analogy about car insurance right

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: uh

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[Martin Powell]: there’s no opt out or apt in based on your f i mean many people

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: on

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[Martin Powell]: financially

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: uh one

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[Martin Powell]: they they they have to get car insurance right it’s not you can’t

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[Martin Powell]: go down

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i

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[Martin Powell]: to a state

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[Martin Powell]: so it’s just it’s it’s so important that

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: s

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[Martin Powell]: you know the

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: trees

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[Martin Powell]: the power of insurance

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[Martin Powell]: is is pooling pulling your wrist

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[Martin Powell]: and y you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Martin Powell]: got to educate people on it so i i opted out to me is

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[Martin Powell]: is the game changer here and it really

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[Ramsey Smith]: So

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[Martin Powell]: sobs it solves the

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[Martin Powell]: the uh the pension crisis in this country

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[Paul Tyler]: Yp.

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[Ramsey Smith]: so I, I always like the ask of the question of people. So is social

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[Ramsey Smith]: so I, I always like the ask of the question of people. So is social

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[Ramsey Smith]: security? Is it optrupt out?

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[Ramsey Smith]: security? Is it optrupt out?

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[Ramsey Smith]: Actuallyly, just opt

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[Martin Powell]: that’s right

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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re in. right,

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[Martin Powell]: exactly where in

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[Ramsey Smith]: not optional, right, uh,

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[Ramsey Smith]: the, the the find define pension benefit plans when they existed like you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: know, optional, y or nay,

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[Ramsey Smith]: nay,

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: right

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[Martin Powell]: yes

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[Ramsey Smith]: right.

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,

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[Ramsey Smith]: So arguably those are the two most successful, at least two of the most

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[Ramsey Smith]: successful retirement income. Uh, sort of Uh platforms

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you

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[Ramsey Smith]: right. So D v plans obviously are being phased out, but they have been

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[Ramsey Smith]: successful in their

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: your

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[Ramsey Smith]: lifetime. They have successfully achieved what they’re supposed to do as a

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[Ramsey Smith]: social security. So they, they all have in common is common

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: okay

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[Ramsey Smith]: is that they’re they’re mandatory. And so

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: oh

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know, to your point, Martin, it’s hard to see how how imple annuities

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[Ramsey Smith]: are going to

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[Ramsey Smith]: be successful. I think it’s either going to be binary area, they fail

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[Ramsey Smith]: completely. arere going to be very successful.

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[Ramsey Smith]: And And and it’s probably because they will. They will. precisely this

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[Ramsey Smith]: reason that you’ve highlighted that they will be uh, not optional.

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[Paul Tyler]: well, let’s play it forward, Ramsey.

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[Ramsey Smith]: Mhm,

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[Paul Tyler]: let’s assume a world where

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[Paul Tyler]: it is there’. It’s opt

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: there’s a

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[Paul Tyler]: out or it’s you have no choice. Um, let’s say, let’s let’s say it mirrors the

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[Paul Tyler]: four K. It’s an opt out type situation. I know Marin, Bru, Mark I, what is this

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[Paul Tyler]: do for the individual advisor? Help hurt

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[Paul Tyler]: the the sale of individual anuities,

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i i personally think long term yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: i think it helps all at all else being equal regardless of the shape or form of

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[Bruno Caron]: you know you know the that relationship the conversation whatever it is

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[Bruno Caron]: people will need some sort of advice people will

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[Bruno Caron]: we’ll need

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[Bruno Caron]: advice in one

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: let’s see

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[Bruno Caron]: way or another now this may you know this may challenge you know

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: but yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: the current environment that it may or may it may not it remains to be seen

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[Bruno Caron]: but that that advice that thinking that’s shopping i mean you know

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: what

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[Bruno Caron]: there’s a lot of value added there to to have that that knowledge and the average

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: person doesn’t necessarily have that

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[Bruno Caron]: you know that

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[Bruno Caron]: that knowledge and that goes back to your original you know discussion on opt in

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[Bruno Caron]: opt out you know i always think of myself

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[Bruno Caron]: buying things where i’m not i’m you know i’m not an expert it’s not something i

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[Ramsey Smith]: Think might no buying

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[Bruno Caron]: think about every day

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see

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[Bruno Caron]: and that default option is is very

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[Bruno Caron]: and that default option is is very

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[Ramsey Smith]: every day and

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[Bruno Caron]: is very important

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes

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[Bruno Caron]: and it really

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[Bruno Caron]: you know it really guides without even knowing um but at the end of the day that

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[Ramsey Smith]: guled

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[Bruno Caron]: that that knowledge

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: is

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: he

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[Bruno Caron]: is is is key

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah i agree i mean i think

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, more.

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: the key i think the key is really the educational process going into it because

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: even if you think about outside of the qualified plan marketplace and look at

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: look at the hurdle with advisors in terms of changing the mindset from an

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: accumulation focus strategy to a distribution focus strategy and that challenge

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: still ongoing in terms of you know how to how to put that right structure in

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: place and then you bring it now to the consumer level that it has always looked

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: at four hundred one k plans as purely an accumulation strategy i think the key is

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: really going to be number one educating up front making sure

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that that they understand the value behind that and to Ramsey’s point that the

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[Bruno Caron]: oh

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: successful programs that are you know not opted in and guaranteed you know have

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: been really the the foot sholes of of successful retirement over the years

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i think the other interesting challenge is and it’s always been interesting to to

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see the disconnect that people have as it relates to what the equitable income

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: lifetime income is from an accumulated asset and i think it’s really important to

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: make sure that people understand going into it the value of that in terms of what

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: this projection can generate going down the road and the key is going to be that

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: point of of education up front i think

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, Mar, Martin, I got a friend, Uh, a call from a friend of mine who actually

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: um

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[Paul Tyler]: retired from at life and said, Oh, Paul, uh, you actually made it. He was on the

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[Paul Tyler]: Def Benefit and he got his pension. he said, Oh, I just got this forum telling

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[Paul Tyler]: me how much money I’m going to. This converts into what are? Are you see? Any

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so

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[Paul Tyler]: advisers? Taking advantage of this is an opportunity to go and talk to people

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[Paul Tyler]: about an noities,

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[Martin Powell]: i i had not had any opportunity or or been told by any

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see

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[Martin Powell]: advisor about them

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: never

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[Martin Powell]: take the opportunity to go out but

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that

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[Martin Powell]: when you you think about

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[Martin Powell]: you know ten million households control probably ninety plus percent of the

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[Martin Powell]: wealth in this country right and that’s primarily where financial advisors are

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[Martin Powell]: all right there’s a hundred and thirty million households in this country so this

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[Martin Powell]: think now if they have an annuity

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[Martin Powell]: for more people have four hundred one ks because we’re making them opt out just

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[Martin Powell]: think the need for the

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[Ramsey Smith]: be

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[Martin Powell]: advice one

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[Martin Powell]: now you’re not working anymore and you gotta climb down the mountain with your

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[Martin Powell]: accumulation

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[Martin Powell]: it’s just gonna right raise the tide and need for advice

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[Martin Powell]: so i i just

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[Martin Powell]: it’s it’s just exciting that it’s gonna it’s gonna raise the need for advice

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[Paul Tyler]: Okay, w. one of my first jobs was a management consultant. So Bruno, I’m very

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[Paul Tyler]: good at slides and Marin. I’m really good at spreadsheets. Him. Say anything

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[Bruno Caron]: what specific

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[Paul Tyler]: right, so the article says,

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[Paul Tyler]: Seven point three trillion dollars, or sitting there in the four o one k market

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[Paul Tyler]: Marin. I’ve got a plan to get you to. I’m going to get two percent of that

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[Paul Tyler]: market

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[Bruno Caron]: what

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[Paul Tyler]: for your company. Uh, is this an opportunity when you, when you size this thing

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[Paul Tyler]: out, Is this a a

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[Paul Tyler]: crawl, walk, or or a run imperative for most Uh, nodity companies today you’re

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[Paul Tyler]: not not speaking for Ka, but speaking for you know, your the colleagues, your

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[Paul Tyler]: colls cross the across the country.

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[Martin Powell]: i i i think it’s a initial crawl

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[Martin Powell]: f for us and and its probably part of our

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[Martin Powell]: our dna

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[Martin Powell]: to get to get it right you know just because we’re in the in the business of of

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[Martin Powell]: risk so i think it’ll be a crawl and an acceleration in in

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[Martin Powell]: if you just think about products like somebody’s got to go take the risk and they

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[Martin Powell]: see the success we all come in

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[Martin Powell]: and develop and innovate and bring products and we and then finally it becomes a

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[Martin Powell]: market and we start innovating back and forth between the companies a competitive

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[Martin Powell]: perspective so that’s what i see happening here

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[Paul Tyler]: Ramsey should be a really fast crawl.

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[Martin Powell]: eight

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[Ramsey Smith]: Um. I, I think it should be, but I’m I’m biased. Uh, I think I think there

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[Ramsey Smith]: will be people that are

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[Ramsey Smith]: the

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[Martin Powell]: picture

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[Ramsey Smith]: leaders and the people that are that are fast followers and people that that

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[Ramsey Smith]: are that are happy coming sort of further back and everybody has their own.

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[Ramsey Smith]: You know reasons for that. Uh, I. I. I do think that we

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[Ramsey Smith]: just need to make sure that we have some leaders. Some folks that are that

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[Ramsey Smith]: are getting the Uh. getting the ball rolling be cause. it’s a. It’s actually

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[Ramsey Smith]: a complicated business. It’s way more than just a product. Be cause once as

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[Ramsey Smith]: soon as you bring it into a four o one K. You say All right. Well if I bring

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[Ramsey Smith]: it into a four o one K.

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[Ramsey Smith]: Probably it’s not stand alone. Probably it’s it’s embedded in a in a target

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[Ramsey Smith]: date fund, So all the you know, all the products have been offered so far,

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[Ramsey Smith]: Including the one Martin that you mentioned usually are it’s a. It’s a

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[Ramsey Smith]: guaranteed income product or annuity embedded in a target

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: date fund. Says structure around that. there’s an entire protocol with the

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[Ramsey Smith]: way that the various members of the four one K

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[Ramsey Smith]: ecosystem have to communicate with each other. So record keepers, in this

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and we cg but somebody else

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[Ramsey Smith]: case a carer, An asset manager is probably a fiduciary, or too involved. So

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[Ramsey Smith]: its actually,

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: if you know is there suggested

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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s actually much more than a product sale. It is a

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: like me

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[Ramsey Smith]: platform sale, And that, so, from my perspective is that everybody should be

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[Ramsey Smith]: figuring out the platform part now, because the product parts the easy part.

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,

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[Paul Tyler]: Y platform is really interesting, Ramsy, Bruno. You know how many hundreds of of

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[Paul Tyler]: successful the nody companies are there today, Because you know, we, we sell

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[Paul Tyler]: through thousands of advisers, Right, hundreds of different distribution

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[Paul Tyler]: channels.

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[Paul Tyler]: How many how many players you think can occupy and actually be successful in

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[Paul Tyler]: space? Is that five or ten is twenty? Is it you know? is there a limit?

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[Bruno Caron]: all right

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[Bruno Caron]: the the the markets will dictate those those limits i i think there’s room for a

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[Bruno Caron]: lot you you you

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[Bruno Caron]: mentioned it that seven point three trillion dollars there’s room out there for

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah that’s what i speak

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[Bruno Caron]: you know for for many players

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[Bruno Caron]: for some competition in for for an actual market

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[Bruno Caron]: to Ramsey’s point

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[Bruno Caron]: everything in in retirement planning has to be part of a comprehensive plan and

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[Bruno Caron]: it’s not just about you know market risk longevity risk inflation risk it’s its

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[Bruno Caron]: about all of the above and um you know i i think that you know some of those

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[Bruno Caron]: risks and and some of those uh considerations have been that it have been studied

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[Bruno Caron]: have you know and are available you know to to the consumers

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[Bruno Caron]: it’s that part on on on lifetime income that i believe is lacking currently is it

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[Bruno Caron]: gonna be a fast crawl

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[Bruno Caron]: we we we certainly can hope for it and uh

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: but but but i think it’s it’s it’s on it’s on all of us to to make sure that you

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[Bruno Caron]: know a crisis doesn’t happen in

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[Bruno Caron]: twenty years where you know all all of a sudden you know people just keep on

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[Bruno Caron]: waking up in the morning

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[Bruno Caron]: very old and you just ran out of money

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[Bruno Caron]: we don’t need to wait for that to happen and we can act

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[Bruno Caron]: and i think we can do that as a as an industry

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[Bruno Caron]: but

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[Bruno Caron]: exciting times to say the least

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, well, we’re near the end of our time mark. final last question. thoughts

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[Paul Tyler]: on the topic

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah i guess two thoughts number one bruno have you seen any kind of modeling

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: like allocation modeling programs out there that that individuals can work with

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and second do you think that we’ll see an evolution similar to what we have on

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: the individual annuity side with income writers kind of being the first

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: leg of this but then all all of a sudden you see care benefits coming out of it

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and death benefits coming on to it you think you’ll see the similar evolution

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: from that standpoint

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[Bruno Caron]: on your first question

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[Bruno Caron]: yes there are like th those those tools out there uh you know and i think

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[Bruno Caron]: i i think of of those tools as not necessarily a silver bullett but it it is

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[Bruno Caron]: something that really helps you

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[Bruno Caron]: develop a comprehensive plan

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[Bruno Caron]: ask the right questions

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[Ramsey Smith]: The

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[Bruno Caron]: make sure that as a

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[Bruno Caron]: consumer you don’t get blank

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[Ramsey Smith]: make sure that at

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[Bruno Caron]: sided by something you haven’t thought about so i i definitely

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[Ramsey Smith]: you get like, by and by something.

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[Ramsey Smith]: So I

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[Bruno Caron]: encourage you everyone to use those tools and some of the guests that you’ve had

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[Bruno Caron]: on the on the show have have developed their their own and you know with uh with

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[Bruno Caron]: with with with multiple um

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[Bruno Caron]: other other peers so yes they’re out there and yes i believe

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[Ramsey Smith]: there?

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[Bruno Caron]: there’s going to be uh more uh more more coming and yes they are

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[Bruno Caron]: they are very helpful

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[Bruno Caron]: uh on your

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[Bruno Caron]: you know on on your on your second questions

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[Bruno Caron]: yes i i you know i believe there there is capacity there

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[Bruno Caron]: i do believe that market is going to to to grow and

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[Bruno Caron]: and evolve

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[Bruno Caron]: you know there’s appetite

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[Bruno Caron]: on both sides you know there is appetite for for capital intensive business

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[Bruno Caron]: there is all those fixed income assets that are that are ready to be to be

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[Bruno Caron]: deployed

416
00:22:33,897 –> 00:22:36,857
[Bruno Caron]: so i think everything is is out there for

417
00:22:38,377 –> 00:22:39,897
[Bruno Caron]: for for for success

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00:22:41,308 –> 00:22:42,308
[Mark Fitzgerald]: great thank you

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00:22:42,159 –> 00:22:43,159
[Paul Tyler]: Ramsy.

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00:22:42,468 –> 00:22:43,468
[Mark Fitzgerald]: you

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00:22:44,316 –> 00:22:45,316
[Ramsey Smith]: uh, so yeah,

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00:22:46,696 –> 00:22:49,256
[Ramsey Smith]: I, uh. I’ll say it again. I think this is the. I think

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00:22:48,980 –> 00:22:49,980
[Martin Powell]: one

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00:22:49,416 –> 00:22:54,536
[Ramsey Smith]: this is the biggest opportunity that we have right now. Uh, I think it is an

425
00:22:54,696 –> 00:22:58,376
[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity for the industry, I think is an opportunity for America. Most

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00:22:58,396 –> 00:22:59,396
[Ramsey Smith]: importantly,

427
00:23:00,076 –> 00:23:01,076
[Ramsey Smith]: and

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00:23:01,976 –> 00:23:06,056
[Ramsey Smith]: I, we just need people to of put themselves out there and try and make it

429
00:23:06,136 –> 00:23:10,536
[Ramsey Smith]: work. They’ already, by our count, by our teams, count eight or nine

430
00:23:10,776 –> 00:23:13,576
[Ramsey Smith]: offerings right up up and running. Um,

431
00:23:13,976 –> 00:23:18,056
[Ramsey Smith]: some have made announcements, but uh, not clear that products have been

432
00:23:14,046 –> 00:23:15,166

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00:23:18,136 –> 00:23:23,256
[Ramsey Smith]: filed yet. It’s still early days. It’s still very early days and I think

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00:23:23,196 –> 00:23:24,196
[Ramsey Smith]: that uh

435
00:23:25,576 –> 00:23:28,776
[Ramsey Smith]: people that jump out in front and learn how to navigate what is a very very

436
00:23:28,936 –> 00:23:32,536
[Ramsey Smith]: different distribution channel. Early, Um, will put themselves in a position

437
00:23:32,856 –> 00:23:36,456
[Ramsey Smith]: to succeed in a market to Bruno’s point, That is big enough for a lot of

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00:23:36,116 –> 00:23:37,116
[Ramsey Smith]: players.

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00:23:36,357 –> 00:23:37,357
[Bruno Caron]: it is

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00:23:36,979 –> 00:23:42,499
[Paul Tyler]: Yeah is great, Uh, Martin. thanks for joining us and thanks for sharing your

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00:23:42,579 –> 00:23:45,779
[Paul Tyler]: perspective. If people want to get in touch with what, what’s the best way for

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00:23:45,939 –> 00:23:47,699
[Paul Tyler]: for people to uh, reach out to you?

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00:23:48,240 –> 00:23:51,520
[Martin Powell]: you can reach me martin dpu at kuntu dot com

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00:23:52,879 –> 00:23:53,879
[Paul Tyler]: Excellent. All right,

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00:23:54,296 –> 00:23:55,976
[Ramsey Smith]: Martin. Great to have you back again

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00:23:55,719 –> 00:23:56,719
[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,

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00:23:56,036 –> 00:23:57,036
[Ramsey Smith]: and twice

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00:23:56,080 –> 00:23:57,760
[Martin Powell]: it could be back yes

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00:23:56,797 –> 00:23:57,797
[Bruno Caron]: let’s listen

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00:23:57,016 –> 00:23:58,296
[Ramsey Smith]: double trouble awesome.

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00:23:58,339 –> 00:24:02,579
[Paul Tyler]: thanks and and burn up for you. best way to reach. Uh, reach you.

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00:24:03,257 –> 00:24:06,377
[Bruno Caron]: same emails good linkedin’s good um

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00:24:07,957 –> 00:24:08,957
[Bruno Caron]: so they’re

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00:24:10,137 –> 00:24:16,777
[Bruno Caron]: bruno backing at aves plus the the linkedin’s always there um anytime

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00:24:17,939 –> 00:24:21,939
[Paul Tyler]: Okay. great, and we’ll also put a a link to your book again. Everybody should

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00:24:22,019 –> 00:24:26,739
[Paul Tyler]: buy the book and and read it if they uh want to understand how this market works

457
00:24:26,899 –> 00:24:30,499
[Paul Tyler]: with the opportunity, Thanks so much, Martin Bruno thinks everybody thans our

458
00:24:30,579 –> 00:24:34,819
[Paul Tyler]: listeners, and Uh join Skin next week for another episode of that annuity show.

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00:24:35,426 –> 00:24:36,426

460
00:24:35,717 –> 00:24:36,717
[Bruno Caron]: thank you

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 138: Sizing the Prize of Institutional Annuities with Martin Powell and Bruno Caron
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Episode 86: How To Retire With Strength With Bruno Caron

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How do retirees juggle between between the many unknowns they face, such as longevity and health concerns? Bruno Caron, a Senior Financial Analyst at AM Best offers a great framework for solving the problem in his recently released book, Lifetime Income to Retire with Strength. The book is available on Amazon here.

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nicholas BreniaEpisode 86: How To Retire With Strength With Bruno Caron
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Episode 53: The Future Of Annuities And The Fate Of Our Industry

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Bruno Caron, Senior Financial Analyst at AM Best Company, shared with us his unique perspective on product design and the health of our industry. Bruno is an actuary with more than a decade of experience spanning various sectors of the life and annuity industry: consulting, life insurance company, start-up company, sell-side equity research and credit rating.

 Watch

 Listen

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Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nicholas BreniaEpisode 53: The Future Of Annuities And The Fate Of Our Industry
read more