Michelle Richter

Episode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2

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The SECURE Act reinvigorated interest in expanding the market for in-plan annuities. However, we need to make many more changes to really drive adoption. In part one of a two part series, Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain of the newly renamed firm, Annuity Research & Consulting, share their roadmap for future success.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-richter/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-chamberlain-33349a14/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show and we’ve

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[paul_tyler]: got our great set up hosts here

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: bruno welcome

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[bruno_caron]: thank

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[bruno_caron]: you

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[paul_tyler]: from canada ramsey

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[paul_tyler]: from atlanta

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[ramsey_d_smith]: always great to be here

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[paul_tyler]: tis and where are you from where
are you

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i am in hartford connecticut today good
morning

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[paul_tyler]: thanks broadcasting from the basement i know

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[bruno_caron]: uh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: basement

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[paul_tyler]: which i’ve

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: boat building

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[bruno_caron]: h

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[paul_tyler]: spacemen of the boat bill and i’m
obviously in just outside new york

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: we have great

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeh

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[paul_tyler]: guests okay in fact record set appearances
by none other and michelle

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: rector co founder founder co founder

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: of nuity research and consultant with her
co founder mark chamberlain michelle and mark welcome

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank

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[michelle_richter]: you

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[mark_chamberlain]: you

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[michelle_richter]: so much

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: for having us

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[paul_tyler]: okay so before we dive

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[michelle_richter]: very exciting

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[paul_tyler]: in

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[michelle_richter]: to be here

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[paul_tyler]: i know you you have a message
i know which will want to get to

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[paul_tyler]: before we do that

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: okay you change your name a

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[mark_chamberlain]: m

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[paul_tyler]: little bit with your firm tell us
what are you doing what’s just maybe a

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[paul_tyler]: thumbnail sketch

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: of your company you’re in your what
you re

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[michelle_richter]: sure

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[paul_tyler]: doing for a lot of good companies

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: we’re doing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: annuity research and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: m so we got really clever with
the name and we

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[mark_chamberlain]: yah

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[michelle_richter]: called it annuity research

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h m

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[michelle_richter]: but like like lame insurance people would

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[michelle_richter]: but but in all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: seriousness you know what what we’re up
to is an intention to bridge the communities

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[michelle_richter]: between plan advisors and between those who
are expert in the insurance space so we

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[michelle_richter]: very much have an intention of education

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: of advocacy and of providing information for
plan

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: advisors to then be able to safely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: recommend solutions that include ensure and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: solutions in plan

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: um and i’d love to let mark
kind of tag

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: along there to add to that thought
about our corporate vision

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[mark_chamberlain]: sure well good morning pleasure to be
with you and i’ve watched many episodes of

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[mark_chamberlain]: this

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: show by the way so i’ve enjoyed

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[paul_tyler]: oh thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: welcome

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank you i got started down this
path in two thousand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: alking with paul just a bit before
the show at the time i had just

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[mark_chamberlain]: joined the ice sirs business before the
launch and

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: went down to san

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: diego to meet with

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: a company called frontier analytics which is
a software

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[mark_chamberlain]: company

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: back then it was providing the asset
class optimization technology for a lot of the

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[mark_chamberlain]: broker dealer you know investment advisory platform

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[michelle_richter]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: and at the time

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: index funds in general weren’t well integrated
into those systems they were primarily selling active

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[mark_chamberlain]: mutual funds and separate account managers and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: e

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: ts weren’t integrated at all so that
was the challenge back then in two thousand

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[mark_chamberlain]: and on the board of that company
was harry marko wits and so i got

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[mark_chamberlain]: to meet him that day and was
invited back for a second meeting and the

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[mark_chamberlain]: topic that day was how do we
integrate annuities and mortality pooling into an acid

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[mark_chamberlain]: application optimization that was two thousand

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[mark_chamberlain]: so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: we are in twenty twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: two in the industry still has not
figured that out and so when black rod

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[mark_chamberlain]: bought the ice sears business in in
well bought all of b in two thus

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[mark_chamberlain]: and nine and a lot of us
who had started the company or started the

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[mark_chamberlain]: business rather

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: parishooted out at that point i was
looking for a similar challenge for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: you know how do we

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: help the industry move forward and what’s
the next place to do that and so

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[mark_chamberlain]: i got started on trying to solve
the innuitization puzzle back in two thousand and

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[mark_chamberlain]: ten

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[mark_chamberlain]: and

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[paul_tyler]: yea

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[mark_chamberlain]: michelle recruited me

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: this past summer we were both presenting
at

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: a at a conference for the new
board it’s the new center for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: board certified feduciaries which is as something
that was begun by a don trone who

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[mark_chamberlain]: originally founded f i three sixty and
the class was on integrating annuities into de

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[mark_chamberlain]: plants and shell and i both taught
classes at that at that at that particular

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: three day conference and she recruited me
to come help her try to try to

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[mark_chamberlain]: start a company to solve the problem

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: so that’s that’s the longer history of
how we got together

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know it’s fascinating this business how
many amazing people touch and and drive so

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[paul_tyler]: many different career paths so yeah mark
wits wow

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[michelle_richter]: ye

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[paul_tyler]: how cool is that so michelle tell
don’t be bashful i know you are

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: just

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[michelle_richter]: complete

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: you are

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[paul_tyler]: not never

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: said no one especially

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[paul_tyler]: no one on linked in ever

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: said that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[paul_tyler]: so all right

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: how should we be looking at the
future of annuities okay future anuities in plan

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[paul_tyler]: futures of annuity you tell

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[michelle_richter]: a

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[paul_tyler]: us

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah so so from from my point
of view what what i’m seeing you know

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[michelle_richter]: uh

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: with part of my time represent the
institutional

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: retirement income council which is think a
non profit think tank operating in the defined

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[michelle_richter]: contribution space

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: and my opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[michelle_richter]: that i express here today are necessarily
my own and not for say comforting with

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[michelle_richter]: those of either the iris or any
of its member companies okay but so in

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[michelle_richter]: this position i hear a lot about
what going on in space and and i

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[michelle_richter]: also facilitate consortion of retirement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: income providers that has been established through

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: broad ridge f three sixty um so
so i have the opportunity to hear a

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[michelle_richter]: lot of what’s going on behind the
scenes as the industry really prepares for what

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[michelle_richter]: is expected to be massive movement towards
annuities and plan some of the attributes that

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[michelle_richter]: i see as necessary right now for
this field to take off include um annuities

218
00:06:52,618 –> 00:06:59,069
[michelle_richter]: need to be included within what in
the qualify or in the d c d

219
00:06:59,189 –> 00:07:01,813
[michelle_richter]: c being defined contribution by the way
space

220
00:07:02,216 –> 00:07:02,297
[paul_tyler]: ah

221
00:07:02,995 –> 00:07:10,427
[michelle_richter]: you know we we need for annuities
to be incorporated into qualified default investment alternatives

222
00:07:10,908 –> 00:07:14,354
[michelle_richter]: for them with offdout provisions of course
for them to

223
00:07:14,405 –> 00:07:14,426
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

224
00:07:14,434 –> 00:07:16,542
[michelle_richter]: have real main stream success

225
00:07:17,735 –> 00:07:17,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

226
00:07:17,946 –> 00:07:21,792
[michelle_richter]: we need data for mat standardization

227
00:07:20,666 –> 00:07:20,686
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

228
00:07:22,113 –> 00:07:23,475
[michelle_richter]: to be undertaken

229
00:07:23,165 –> 00:07:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

230
00:07:24,116 –> 00:07:25,198
[michelle_richter]: by an industry

231
00:07:25,218 –> 00:07:25,519
[bruno_caron]: oh

232
00:07:25,398 –> 00:07:27,021
[michelle_richter]: organization like

233
00:07:26,947 –> 00:07:27,108
[bruno_caron]: yeah

234
00:07:27,201 –> 00:07:34,794
[michelle_richter]: spark for example it is the industry
organization for record keepers and it is in

235
00:07:34,914 –> 00:07:36,757
[michelle_richter]: conversation with libra

236
00:07:37,810 –> 00:07:37,954
[bruno_caron]: yeah

237
00:07:38,039 –> 00:07:38,420
[michelle_richter]: about

238
00:07:38,186 –> 00:07:38,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

239
00:07:38,700 –> 00:07:45,852
[michelle_richter]: how to accomplish some of those jectives
where because historically you know record keepers didn’t

240
00:07:45,972 –> 00:07:50,740
[michelle_richter]: talk to annuity companies and annuity companies
didn’t talk to record keepers so

241
00:07:50,696 –> 00:07:52,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

242
00:07:50,861 –> 00:07:59,735
[michelle_richter]: that to the data connactivitythat is necessary
for reporting annuity elements it benefit elements to

243
00:07:59,876 –> 00:08:03,061
[michelle_richter]: the end participant like that infrastructure

244
00:08:02,816 –> 00:08:03,565
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

245
00:08:03,261 –> 00:08:10,273
[michelle_richter]: isn’t there yet so some of that
is needs to be addressed for there to

246
00:08:10,333 –> 00:08:14,139
[michelle_richter]: be a wide scale and then lastly
fiduciary

247
00:08:13,496 –> 00:08:13,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

248
00:08:14,240 –> 00:08:20,811
[michelle_richter]: concerns need to be satisfied because plan
sponsors and those who advise them serve in

249
00:08:20,851 –> 00:08:29,004
[michelle_richter]: a fiduciary capacity and the concerns that
i’m hearing about how advisors can introduce annuities

250
00:08:29,325 –> 00:08:30,607
[michelle_richter]: plan are

251
00:08:30,695 –> 00:08:30,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

252
00:08:31,328 –> 00:08:39,782
[michelle_richter]: more materially about ongoing monitoring than they
are about initial introduction where there’s there is

253
00:08:39,882 –> 00:08:49,498
[michelle_richter]: certainly a need within the plan advisory
community to get access to basic information about

254
00:08:49,819 –> 00:08:56,227
[michelle_richter]: about products but our product our industries
products but but i am hearing as i

255
00:08:56,287 –> 00:09:00,611
[michelle_richter]: said less concerned about how to get
enough information to be able to make an

256
00:09:00,671 –> 00:09:00,991
[michelle_richter]: initial

257
00:09:00,678 –> 00:09:01,668
[bruno_caron]: yeah

258
00:09:00,866 –> 00:09:01,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

259
00:09:01,051 –> 00:09:02,653
[michelle_richter]: recommendation than i

260
00:09:02,756 –> 00:09:03,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

261
00:09:02,873 –> 00:09:06,778
[michelle_richter]: am about things like how will i
know what renewal

262
00:09:06,746 –> 00:09:06,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

263
00:09:06,898 –> 00:09:08,661
[michelle_richter]: rates on indexinuities

264
00:09:08,546 –> 00:09:08,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

265
00:09:08,861 –> 00:09:14,611
[michelle_richter]: actually turn out to be since i’m
making this recommendation that needs to be monitored

266
00:09:14,671 –> 00:09:19,931
[michelle_richter]: on an ongoing basis so this the
kind of information that’s going to be necessary

267
00:09:20,665 –> 00:09:27,516
[michelle_richter]: within the plan advisory community for our
product lines to take off and it’s looking

268
00:09:27,616 –> 00:09:29,539
[michelle_richter]: to me like that’s going to be
the case

269
00:09:29,868 –> 00:09:29,888
[bruno_caron]: m

270
00:09:30,181 –> 00:09:37,460
[michelle_richter]: so we should all prepare accordingly um
i’d like to let mark pitch you on

271
00:09:37,540 –> 00:09:38,101
[michelle_richter]: why we should

272
00:09:38,126 –> 00:09:38,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

273
00:09:38,161 –> 00:09:39,363
[michelle_richter]: all prepare accordingly

274
00:09:39,146 –> 00:09:40,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

275
00:09:39,543 –> 00:09:44,772
[michelle_richter]: because you know my view is that
you know as it stands right now and

276
00:09:45,192 –> 00:09:46,955
[michelle_richter]: i’ll go deeper on this a couple
of

277
00:09:46,946 –> 00:09:46,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

278
00:09:46,995 –> 00:09:52,384
[michelle_richter]: minutes but you know as the community
stands right now amongst

279
00:09:52,608 –> 00:09:52,871
[bruno_caron]: oh

280
00:09:52,625 –> 00:09:58,935
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors as i mentioned plan advisors
they advise plans d c plans

281
00:09:59,036 –> 00:09:59,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

282
00:09:59,095 –> 00:10:02,838
[michelle_richter]: are inherently accumulation focused it’s never been
the

283
00:10:02,795 –> 00:10:02,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

284
00:10:02,919 –> 00:10:11,668
[michelle_richter]: responsibility of a plan advisor to understand
decumulation because historically plant sponsors did not want

285
00:10:11,768 –> 00:10:12,409
[michelle_richter]: to retain

286
00:10:12,296 –> 00:10:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

287
00:10:12,650 –> 00:10:19,862
[michelle_richter]: assets through participants retirement but that dynamic
has changed dramatically in the last five to

288
00:10:19,922 –> 00:10:25,251
[michelle_richter]: ten years and it’s it in large
part of function of record keeping fee structures

289
00:10:26,413 –> 00:10:31,962
[michelle_richter]: and there being economies of scale to
keeping participants in plan but it also has

290
00:10:32,042 –> 00:10:37,511
[michelle_richter]: to do with some regulatority since um
and it just is the case now that

291
00:10:37,631 –> 00:10:41,939
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors need to become more expert
and how to address the

292
00:10:41,908 –> 00:10:42,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

293
00:10:41,979 –> 00:10:46,049
[michelle_richter]: decumulation phase so this whole um

294
00:10:46,246 –> 00:10:46,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: michele i’ve

295
00:10:46,734 –> 00:10:46,754
[michelle_richter]: m

296
00:10:46,746 –> 00:10:47,207
[ramsey_d_smith]: got a i’ve

297
00:10:47,237 –> 00:10:47,742
[michelle_richter]: community

298
00:10:47,247 –> 00:10:48,369
[ramsey_d_smith]: got i’ve got a quick

299
00:10:48,288 –> 00:10:48,449
[michelle_richter]: yeah

300
00:10:48,429 –> 00:10:48,730
[ramsey_d_smith]: question

301
00:10:48,480 –> 00:10:48,520
[bruno_caron]: a

302
00:10:48,790 –> 00:10:49,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: if if

303
00:10:49,216 –> 00:10:49,318
[michelle_richter]: oh

304
00:10:49,271 –> 00:10:50,192
[ramsey_d_smith]: i may because i think

305
00:10:50,178 –> 00:10:50,441
[bruno_caron]: oh

306
00:10:50,785 –> 00:10:51,027
[michelle_richter]: yes

307
00:10:50,873 –> 00:10:51,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s there’s

308
00:10:51,329 –> 00:10:51,651
[michelle_richter]: please

309
00:10:51,474 –> 00:10:57,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: two interesting elements of what you’ve just
said so one is let’s talk a little

310
00:10:57,144 –> 00:11:00,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: bit about what is it plan advisor
look like right so right

311
00:11:00,759 –> 00:11:00,841
[michelle_richter]: ah

312
00:11:00,770 –> 00:11:00,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: there

313
00:11:00,773 –> 00:11:01,463
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

314
00:11:01,050 –> 00:11:01,491
[ramsey_d_smith]: there there’s

315
00:11:01,476 –> 00:11:01,557
[michelle_richter]: ah

316
00:11:01,531 –> 00:11:06,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: a broad spectrum of four one k
plans the small ones they’re big ones so

317
00:11:07,381 –> 00:11:12,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: we talk about plan advisors we’re talking
about r a are we talking about sort

318
00:11:12,270 –> 00:11:13,713
[ramsey_d_smith]: of large consultancies

319
00:11:13,605 –> 00:11:13,846
[michelle_richter]: yeah

320
00:11:13,813 –> 00:11:15,456
[ramsey_d_smith]: like like like a milliment or

321
00:11:15,814 –> 00:11:15,975
[michelle_richter]: yeah

322
00:11:15,857 –> 00:11:17,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: what is the what is the what
is the scope

323
00:11:18,145 –> 00:11:18,347
[michelle_richter]: yes

324
00:11:18,442 –> 00:11:19,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: people that we’re talking

325
00:11:19,125 –> 00:11:19,289
[michelle_richter]: oh

326
00:11:19,264 –> 00:11:19,444
[ramsey_d_smith]: about

327
00:11:20,666 –> 00:11:21,968
[michelle_richter]: the answer is yes and yes

328
00:11:22,116 –> 00:11:22,136
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

329
00:11:22,409 –> 00:11:23,290
[michelle_richter]: right so the

330
00:11:24,326 –> 00:11:24,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

331
00:11:24,672 –> 00:11:28,158
[michelle_richter]: the people who serve plans can can
be

332
00:11:28,985 –> 00:11:29,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

333
00:11:29,260 –> 00:11:29,701
[michelle_richter]: typically

334
00:11:29,726 –> 00:11:29,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

335
00:11:29,821 –> 00:11:31,764
[michelle_richter]: larger plans work with a

336
00:11:32,006 –> 00:11:32,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:11:32,025 –> 00:11:33,046
[michelle_richter]: sultan that has

338
00:11:33,154 –> 00:11:33,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

339
00:11:33,487 –> 00:11:33,687
[michelle_richter]: home

340
00:11:33,626 –> 00:11:33,909
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:11:33,808 –> 00:11:37,975
[michelle_richter]: office support working for an organization

342
00:11:37,899 –> 00:11:37,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

343
00:11:38,135 –> 00:11:41,320
[michelle_richter]: that is principally focused on plan advisement

344
00:11:42,005 –> 00:11:42,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

345
00:11:42,482 –> 00:11:47,010
[michelle_richter]: whereas retirement and advisors so so you’d
call those people consultants

346
00:11:47,360 –> 00:11:47,381
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

347
00:11:47,651 –> 00:11:48,292
[michelle_richter]: whereas you’d

348
00:11:48,215 –> 00:11:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

349
00:11:48,372 –> 00:11:48,572
[michelle_richter]: call

350
00:11:48,498 –> 00:11:48,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

351
00:11:48,692 –> 00:11:55,404
[michelle_richter]: an advisor a person who probably works
with a smaller shop and may be on

352
00:11:55,464 –> 00:11:59,877
[michelle_richter]: their own um and that always is
performed

353
00:11:59,450 –> 00:11:59,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

354
00:11:59,977 –> 00:12:01,683
[michelle_richter]: through a registered investment advisor

355
00:12:02,327 –> 00:12:03,090
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what would be the

356
00:12:03,026 –> 00:12:05,253
[michelle_richter]: but but they’re not per se wealth
managers

357
00:12:05,236 –> 00:12:09,741
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure and what and what sort of
size of what size of plans would they

358
00:12:09,801 –> 00:12:10,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: be typically

359
00:12:11,475 –> 00:12:11,717
[michelle_richter]: yeah

360
00:12:12,044 –> 00:12:12,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: advising

361
00:12:12,323 –> 00:12:12,444
[michelle_richter]: yeah

362
00:12:13,596 –> 00:12:13,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: a park

363
00:12:14,207 –> 00:12:18,414
[michelle_richter]: so the consultants might be looking in
the billion dollar range

364
00:12:18,299 –> 00:12:18,319
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

365
00:12:18,447 –> 00:12:18,468
[bruno_caron]: m

366
00:12:18,534 –> 00:12:19,916
[michelle_richter]: right and advisors

367
00:12:19,715 –> 00:12:19,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

368
00:12:20,036 –> 00:12:24,884
[michelle_richter]: are you know likely addressing the market
below that i mean that certainly

369
00:12:25,208 –> 00:12:25,432
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

370
00:12:25,405 –> 00:12:27,009
[michelle_richter]: a hard and fast rule but

371
00:12:27,896 –> 00:12:28,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

372
00:12:28,031 –> 00:12:29,233
[michelle_richter]: you know ball park

373
00:12:29,486 –> 00:12:33,453
[ramsey_d_smith]: so so the next next piece is
that i think it’s very interesting following that

374
00:12:33,533 –> 00:12:38,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: is the the it’s it’s it’s an
important business for a lot of r s

375
00:12:39,443 –> 00:12:43,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what you’re saying is that where
before it might have been a business that

376
00:12:43,721 –> 00:12:50,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: was that was limited to sort of
the accumulation phase now there’s this retention opportunity

377
00:12:51,237 –> 00:12:55,524
[ramsey_d_smith]: all the way into retirement it’s an
important business opportunity as well for that for

378
00:12:55,544 –> 00:12:57,111
[ramsey_d_smith]: that aeneisthatis that fair statement

379
00:12:58,806 –> 00:13:03,434
[michelle_richter]: it is a fair statement and it
is half of the reason why i’m here

380
00:13:03,514 –> 00:13:04,796
[michelle_richter]: today it’s because

381
00:13:04,458 –> 00:13:04,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

382
00:13:04,876 –> 00:13:06,599
[michelle_richter]: i believe that my people

383
00:13:06,326 –> 00:13:06,748
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

384
00:13:06,759 –> 00:13:08,642
[michelle_richter]: have a place within this community

385
00:13:08,817 –> 00:13:08,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

386
00:13:09,664 –> 00:13:10,906
[michelle_richter]: it the case that

387
00:13:10,840 –> 00:13:10,860
[bruno_caron]: i

388
00:13:11,627 –> 00:13:15,013
[michelle_richter]: retirement plan advisors don’t know annuities right

389
00:13:15,116 –> 00:13:15,357
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

390
00:13:15,193 –> 00:13:21,864
[michelle_richter]: with everybody certainly knows that that’s the
case and arica does require for experts

391
00:13:21,858 –> 00:13:22,616
[bruno_caron]: ye

392
00:13:22,045 –> 00:13:27,834
[michelle_richter]: who are advising a plan if they
do not have experts in a certain arena

393
00:13:27,914 –> 00:13:33,644
[michelle_richter]: that they think is important for the
plan then an every side adviser is required

394
00:13:33,744 –> 00:13:34,726
[michelle_richter]: to contract with

395
00:13:34,766 –> 00:13:35,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

396
00:13:34,786 –> 00:13:42,158
[michelle_richter]: an outside expert to to give them
guidance on how to review those you know

397
00:13:42,198 –> 00:13:50,212
[michelle_richter]: those solutions so you know from my
view i think that there is a need

398
00:13:50,612 –> 00:13:59,748
[michelle_richter]: for insurance experts to get ready to
help plan advisors to evaluate insurance contract that’s

399
00:13:59,828 –> 00:14:04,015
[michelle_richter]: at the heart of what mark and
i will be doing as early as february

400
00:14:03,995 –> 00:14:04,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

401
00:14:04,776 –> 00:14:06,038
[michelle_richter]: and and i

402
00:14:06,149 –> 00:14:06,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

403
00:14:06,178 –> 00:14:08,202
[michelle_richter]: feel that we will not

404
00:14:08,036 –> 00:14:08,278
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

405
00:14:08,302 –> 00:14:11,347
[michelle_richter]: be able to dress all of the
demand

406
00:14:11,246 –> 00:14:11,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

407
00:14:11,527 –> 00:14:16,375
[michelle_richter]: ourselves for such services because plan advisors
do not

408
00:14:16,304 –> 00:14:16,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:14:16,455 –> 00:14:24,611
[michelle_richter]: have that expertise my imagination is that
building models or that kind of expertise will

410
00:14:24,772 –> 00:14:32,178
[michelle_richter]: be hourly or project based or subscription
based and so if that is the case

411
00:14:32,559 –> 00:14:38,248
[michelle_richter]: here cannot be commissions paid in an
aria context so it seems to me

412
00:14:38,156 –> 00:14:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:14:38,449 –> 00:14:41,113
[michelle_richter]: that the guidance that is going to
be necessary

414
00:14:40,766 –> 00:14:41,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

415
00:14:41,213 –> 00:14:42,375
[michelle_richter]: is going to be livered

416
00:14:42,725 –> 00:14:42,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

417
00:14:42,816 –> 00:14:45,220
[michelle_richter]: v one of the mechanisms i just
described

418
00:14:45,515 –> 00:14:45,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

419
00:14:45,618 –> 00:14:45,699
[paul_tyler]: ay

420
00:14:45,821 –> 00:14:47,764
[michelle_richter]: and to me it appears that the

421
00:14:47,898 –> 00:14:47,918
[bruno_caron]: m

422
00:14:47,964 –> 00:14:50,388
[michelle_richter]: form of entity qualified to do such

423
00:14:50,273 –> 00:14:50,495
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

424
00:14:50,689 –> 00:14:56,539
[michelle_richter]: is an r a m and that’s
the reason why i have used my for

425
00:14:56,579 –> 00:14:59,604
[michelle_richter]: that purpose and and i

426
00:14:59,876 –> 00:15:00,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

427
00:14:59,924 –> 00:15:01,467
[michelle_richter]: think that plan advisers

428
00:15:01,001 –> 00:15:01,084
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

429
00:15:01,607 –> 00:15:06,896
[michelle_richter]: will desire for the counter party that
they interact with to also b fiduciary

430
00:15:07,195 –> 00:15:07,357
[paul_tyler]: yeah

431
00:15:07,838 –> 00:15:14,449
[michelle_richter]: an annuity fediciary for which i applied
for a trade mark because insurance fiduciary is

432
00:15:14,649 –> 00:15:21,082
[michelle_richter]: already trade marked by one man who
will prevent others from using that mark who

433
00:15:21,262 –> 00:15:25,412
[michelle_richter]: did in fact do so with me
which is the reason why my entity is

434
00:15:25,512 –> 00:15:25,933
[michelle_richter]: renamed

435
00:15:26,399 –> 00:15:26,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: other

436
00:15:26,588 –> 00:15:26,772
[paul_tyler]: work

437
00:15:26,620 –> 00:15:28,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: than owning the name does he actually
perform that function

438
00:15:31,406 –> 00:15:32,490
[michelle_richter]: i decline to comment

439
00:15:32,286 –> 00:15:32,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

440
00:15:32,590 –> 00:15:33,293
[michelle_richter]: on the individual

441
00:15:33,749 –> 00:15:33,949
[ramsey_d_smith]: i just

442
00:15:34,067 –> 00:15:34,288
[paul_tyler]: okay

443
00:15:34,350 –> 00:15:34,451
[ramsey_d_smith]: just

444
00:15:34,749 –> 00:15:35,732
[paul_tyler]: well and let me

445
00:15:35,693 –> 00:15:35,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: go

446
00:15:35,773 –> 00:15:35,913
[paul_tyler]: just

447
00:15:35,814 –> 00:15:35,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead

448
00:15:36,475 –> 00:15:38,381
[paul_tyler]: be even a little more specific for
a listener so

449
00:15:38,605 –> 00:15:42,652
[michelle_richter]: i hold a patent my former employer
holds a patent

450
00:15:42,473 –> 00:15:42,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

451
00:15:42,792 –> 00:15:44,135
[michelle_richter]: on intellectual property

452
00:15:44,186 –> 00:15:44,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:15:44,275 –> 00:15:51,908
[michelle_richter]: that i invented imbedding life insurance and
annuities into holistic acid application to challenge mark

454
00:15:52,629 –> 00:15:54,592
[michelle_richter]: who said that it can be done

455
00:15:54,657 –> 00:15:54,678
[bruno_caron]: m

456
00:15:54,732 –> 00:15:55,614
[michelle_richter]: it can be done

457
00:15:55,526 –> 00:15:55,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

458
00:15:56,075 –> 00:16:01,704
[michelle_richter]: it was done and yet i cannot
call myself an insurance fiduciary i can call

459
00:16:01,804 –> 00:16:02,568
[michelle_richter]: myself an annuity

460
00:16:02,594 –> 00:16:03,002
[paul_tyler]: uh

461
00:16:02,628 –> 00:16:03,131
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

462
00:16:04,174 –> 00:16:10,845
[paul_tyler]: well and i’ll say for my experience
providing financial planning

463
00:16:10,826 –> 00:16:11,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

464
00:16:10,986 –> 00:16:14,932
[paul_tyler]: support inside of corporate structure is immensely
complicated only from

465
00:16:14,876 –> 00:16:14,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

466
00:16:14,972 –> 00:16:17,657
[paul_tyler]: a legal perspect but a practical perspective

467
00:16:17,195 –> 00:16:17,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

468
00:16:17,737 –> 00:16:18,558
[paul_tyler]: of working with a

469
00:16:18,623 –> 00:16:18,643
[mark_chamberlain]: m

470
00:16:18,638 –> 00:16:23,406
[paul_tyler]: wide variety of employes so when you
talk about a plan advisor or an annuity

471
00:16:23,526 –> 00:16:30,658
[paul_tyler]: specialist is the client the and sponsor
or is the client the individuals and the

472
00:16:30,698 –> 00:16:33,242
[paul_tyler]: corporation or individuals inside the plan

473
00:16:35,228 –> 00:16:41,754
[michelle_richter]: i it’s a great question i would
argue there’s three clients there is the plan

474
00:16:41,814 –> 00:16:44,619
[michelle_richter]: advisor who makes the determination

475
00:16:44,036 –> 00:16:44,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

476
00:16:44,719 –> 00:16:46,843
[michelle_richter]: of how to select other service providers

477
00:16:46,406 –> 00:16:46,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

478
00:16:47,764 –> 00:16:53,996
[michelle_richter]: there the plan itself and there are
the participants in the plan and the person

479
00:16:54,076 –> 00:16:58,404
[michelle_richter]: who’s giving the guidance has to be
thinking about all of those constituencies

480
00:17:00,266 –> 00:17:01,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

481
00:17:00,914 –> 00:17:05,402
[paul_tyler]: i guess is that is that like
is that possible right i think of the

482
00:17:06,023 –> 00:17:11,111
[paul_tyler]: thou think of the challenge s just
to get the enrollment you mentioned i think

483
00:17:11,351 –> 00:17:13,617
[paul_tyler]: michelle you favor an din into this

484
00:17:13,770 –> 00:17:13,991
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

485
00:17:14,158 –> 00:17:15,221
[paul_tyler]: into the process

486
00:17:15,317 –> 00:17:17,069
[michelle_richter]: yeah i favor

487
00:17:16,828 –> 00:17:17,010
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

488
00:17:17,170 –> 00:17:17,532
[michelle_richter]: up doubt

489
00:17:17,794 –> 00:17:21,735
[paul_tyler]: ped out lopped out perfect world

490
00:17:21,836 –> 00:17:21,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

491
00:17:21,875 –> 00:17:22,336
[paul_tyler]: what’s the

492
00:17:22,648 –> 00:17:24,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm oh

493
00:17:23,818 –> 00:17:24,539
[paul_tyler]: ramsey gives us

494
00:17:24,678 –> 00:17:25,338
[bruno_caron]: yeah

495
00:17:24,720 –> 00:17:25,421
[paul_tyler]: the tuns up on

496
00:17:25,376 –> 00:17:25,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:17:25,461 –> 00:17:25,782
[paul_tyler]: that one

498
00:17:26,298 –> 00:17:26,765
[bruno_caron]: uh

499
00:17:26,885 –> 00:17:26,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

500
00:17:27,384 –> 00:17:27,685
[paul_tyler]: perfect

501
00:17:27,537 –> 00:17:27,558
[bruno_caron]: h

502
00:17:27,785 –> 00:17:28,065
[paul_tyler]: world

503
00:17:28,076 –> 00:17:29,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

504
00:17:28,787 –> 00:17:30,249
[paul_tyler]: what is that number like

505
00:17:30,678 –> 00:17:31,398
[bruno_caron]: yeah

506
00:17:30,730 –> 00:17:31,531
[paul_tyler]: does everybody have

507
00:17:31,673 –> 00:17:31,693
[mark_chamberlain]: m

508
00:17:32,235 –> 00:17:32,457
[michelle_richter]: oh

509
00:17:32,513 –> 00:17:34,276
[paul_tyler]: five percent their assets between thirty

510
00:17:34,233 –> 00:17:34,395
[michelle_richter]: yeah

511
00:17:34,316 –> 00:17:37,661
[paul_tyler]: and forty in this annuity is that
then you get to fifty and sixty you’ve

512
00:17:37,681 –> 00:17:38,022
[paul_tyler]: got ten

513
00:17:38,696 –> 00:17:39,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

514
00:17:39,174 –> 00:17:39,595
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

515
00:17:40,095 –> 00:17:40,438
[michelle_richter]: oh

516
00:17:40,377 –> 00:17:40,538
[paul_tyler]: if you

517
00:17:40,466 –> 00:17:40,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

518
00:17:40,558 –> 00:17:41,280
[paul_tyler]: were righting a lot what

519
00:17:41,185 –> 00:17:41,287
[michelle_richter]: the

520
00:17:41,320 –> 00:17:41,460
[paul_tyler]: would

521
00:17:41,449 –> 00:17:41,753
[michelle_richter]: answer

522
00:17:41,500 –> 00:17:41,701
[paul_tyler]: it be

523
00:17:43,726 –> 00:17:44,787
[michelle_richter]: well i’m actually going to

524
00:17:44,808 –> 00:17:45,072
[bruno_caron]: yeah

525
00:17:44,847 –> 00:17:48,373
[michelle_richter]: have mark answer this because our organization
takes

526
00:17:48,533 –> 00:17:48,901
[mark_chamberlain]: my

527
00:17:48,554 –> 00:17:53,261
[michelle_richter]: a view point around how the stages
that we think you’re supposed to look at

528
00:17:53,742 –> 00:17:55,525
[michelle_richter]: as a plan advisor then

529
00:17:55,886 –> 00:17:56,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

530
00:17:56,327 –> 00:18:02,270
[michelle_richter]: it’s through that lens that you’re supposed
to then think about products all you mark

531
00:18:04,343 –> 00:18:07,807
[mark_chamberlain]: we didn’t see that one coming but
i’ll give

532
00:18:07,695 –> 00:18:07,957
[michelle_richter]: uh

533
00:18:07,867 –> 00:18:08,227
[mark_chamberlain]: it a shot

534
00:18:08,298 –> 00:18:08,579
[bruno_caron]: my

535
00:18:08,644 –> 00:18:08,685
[michelle_richter]: uh

536
00:18:08,945 –> 00:18:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

537
00:18:09,589 –> 00:18:12,945
[mark_chamberlain]: my perspective on all of this is
that

538
00:18:13,835 –> 00:18:13,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

539
00:18:14,913 –> 00:18:22,454
[mark_chamberlain]: open architecture approach to providing institutional quality
diligence and consulting means that

540
00:18:23,366 –> 00:18:23,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

541
00:18:23,395 –> 00:18:29,735
[mark_chamberlain]: there is no best solution there are
only trade offs and one of the possible

542
00:18:30,375 –> 00:18:31,497
[mark_chamberlain]: conclusions that a board

543
00:18:31,526 –> 00:18:31,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

544
00:18:31,597 –> 00:18:34,620
[mark_chamberlain]: can reach is that bringing an annuity
inside the

545
00:18:34,555 –> 00:18:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

546
00:18:34,660 –> 00:18:35,361
[mark_chamberlain]: plan isn’t the

547
00:18:35,366 –> 00:18:35,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

548
00:18:35,421 –> 00:18:38,919
[mark_chamberlain]: best decision for them it has to
be one of the options on the table

549
00:18:38,996 –> 00:18:39,241
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

550
00:18:39,401 –> 00:18:44,218
[mark_chamberlain]: and the consultant has to be ready
to support that and educated in such a

551
00:18:44,278 –> 00:18:45,645
[mark_chamberlain]: way that that’s that’s actually

552
00:18:45,447 –> 00:18:45,528
[michelle_richter]: ah

553
00:18:45,786 –> 00:18:51,448
[mark_chamberlain]: considered oh in an unbiased way so
that’s a little bit

554
00:18:51,408 –> 00:18:51,428
[bruno_caron]: m

555
00:18:51,488 –> 00:18:57,246
[mark_chamberlain]: of a constraint on who’s going to
be considered the outside expert and that gets

556
00:18:57,326 –> 00:18:59,551
[mark_chamberlain]: to the heart of michel’s point of

557
00:19:00,686 –> 00:19:01,110
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

558
00:19:00,693 –> 00:19:04,201
[mark_chamberlain]: the right way to compensate this kind
of an expert isn’t based on a product

559
00:19:04,301 –> 00:19:08,650
[mark_chamberlain]: sale the only way you’re going to
get truly objectivity is if they’re they’re paid

560
00:19:08,730 –> 00:19:10,514
[mark_chamberlain]: a consulting a hard dollar consulting fee

561
00:19:10,695 –> 00:19:10,916
[michelle_richter]: oh

562
00:19:11,476 –> 00:19:19,699
[mark_chamberlain]: so with that said no is it
optimal to try and say to a plant

563
00:19:19,655 –> 00:19:19,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

564
00:19:19,739 –> 00:19:26,971
[mark_chamberlain]: participant you should have ex percent defaulted
into this solution well that gets into the

565
00:19:27,051 –> 00:19:29,785
[mark_chamberlain]: triage what stage is the participant

566
00:19:29,345 –> 00:19:29,366
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

567
00:19:30,007 –> 00:19:34,636
[mark_chamberlain]: in and their financial planning are they
the accumulation

568
00:19:34,556 –> 00:19:34,818
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

569
00:19:34,716 –> 00:19:35,017
[mark_chamberlain]: phase

570
00:19:35,088 –> 00:19:36,198
[bruno_caron]: yeah

571
00:19:35,118 –> 00:19:38,491
[mark_chamberlain]: are they in the near retirement phase
or are they going to retire next year

572
00:19:39,623 –> 00:19:44,651
[mark_chamberlain]: and so that’s probably the first the
first conversation for

573
00:19:44,486 –> 00:19:45,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah m

574
00:19:45,893 –> 00:19:49,599
[mark_chamberlain]: the expert to have with the board
is what stage do you want to solve

575
00:19:49,679 –> 00:19:54,633
[mark_chamberlain]: for in your plan you want to
try and put something in place that will

576
00:19:54,733 –> 00:19:59,181
[mark_chamberlain]: fit those who are in the most
urgent need which are those people that are

577
00:19:59,221 –> 00:20:01,965
[mark_chamberlain]: retiring this year next year the year
after

578
00:20:02,636 –> 00:20:03,299
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

579
00:20:02,847 –> 00:20:09,201
[mark_chamberlain]: and so there are they’ve got some
educational needs about how to think about putting

580
00:20:09,261 –> 00:20:14,124
[mark_chamberlain]: together a retirement income plan that can
not only be secure for them in an

581
00:20:14,224 –> 00:20:19,293
[mark_chamberlain]: inflationary environment but in possibly a deflationary
environment also and you have to be able

582
00:20:19,373 –> 00:20:27,210
[mark_chamberlain]: to do some serious education about where
annuities fit relative systematic withdrawal and then you

583
00:20:27,250 –> 00:20:29,559
[mark_chamberlain]: have to be able to do a
deep dive from there on what kind of

584
00:20:29,639 –> 00:20:35,330
[mark_chamberlain]: ininuuity and if we focus on the
only decumulation then we need to do a

585
00:20:35,390 –> 00:20:40,619
[mark_chamberlain]: deep dive on spes versus riders versus
you know the various ways of generating lifetime

586
00:20:40,699 –> 00:20:45,549
[mark_chamberlain]: income so there is no answer to
the question of you know how do we

587
00:20:45,609 –> 00:20:50,921
[mark_chamberlain]: come up with a one size fits
all solution because it’s much too complicated for

588
00:20:50,961 –> 00:20:51,101
[mark_chamberlain]: that

589
00:20:52,189 –> 00:20:56,115
[bruno_caron]: and that makes perfect sense in terms
of trade off i love the way you

590
00:20:56,195 –> 00:21:00,743
[bruno_caron]: put it in terms of you know
there is no right solution there’s no one

591
00:21:01,825 –> 00:21:06,392
[bruno_caron]: one right answer because quite frankly if
there was we wouldn’t be talking about it

592
00:21:06,432 –> 00:21:06,773
[bruno_caron]: right now

593
00:21:07,553 –> 00:21:07,573
[mark_chamberlain]: m

594
00:21:07,554 –> 00:21:14,546
[bruno_caron]: and my question is have you looked
at or found a way to obviously there’s

595
00:21:14,606 –> 00:21:19,073
[bruno_caron]: a classical measure of you know assets
on their management x per cent of your

596
00:21:19,133 –> 00:21:24,462
[bruno_caron]: your portfolio should be you know allocated
one way one way or the other but

597
00:21:24,743 –> 00:21:30,753
[bruno_caron]: is there a way to to do
that exact same reasoning that exactly framework with

598
00:21:30,913 –> 00:21:32,776
[bruno_caron]: income and how much income

599
00:21:33,905 –> 00:21:33,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:21:34,219 –> 00:21:36,582
[bruno_caron]: on you know the set of all
of your

601
00:21:36,935 –> 00:21:36,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

602
00:21:36,963 –> 00:21:42,233
[bruno_caron]: your your assets would act or your
portfolio would would generate

603
00:21:44,132 –> 00:21:44,274
[mark_chamberlain]: what

604
00:21:44,295 –> 00:21:47,180
[michelle_richter]: i think there are lots of ways
to do that and it’s always going to

605
00:21:47,220 –> 00:21:49,564
[michelle_richter]: be a question and mark you should
disagree

606
00:21:49,166 –> 00:21:49,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

607
00:21:49,624 –> 00:21:54,633
[michelle_richter]: with me if this is not your
opinion but you know mark always tells me

608
00:21:54,833 –> 00:21:57,558
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary is t process right so

609
00:21:57,783 –> 00:21:57,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

610
00:21:57,958 –> 00:22:00,002
[michelle_richter]: there’s a million ways that you can

611
00:22:00,128 –> 00:22:00,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

612
00:22:00,522 –> 00:22:01,164
[michelle_richter]: do exactly

613
00:22:01,145 –> 00:22:01,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

614
00:22:01,204 –> 00:22:01,985
[michelle_richter]: what you’re describing

615
00:22:01,707 –> 00:22:01,728
[bruno_caron]: m

616
00:22:01,917 –> 00:22:01,999
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

617
00:22:02,025 –> 00:22:04,068
[michelle_richter]: brune and as long as when you’re

618
00:22:03,923 –> 00:22:04,105
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

619
00:22:04,128 –> 00:22:05,651
[michelle_richter]: acting in a futiary capacity

620
00:22:05,606 –> 00:22:05,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

621
00:22:05,771 –> 00:22:10,242
[michelle_richter]: as long as you document how you
did it and you did it you’re in

622
00:22:10,302 –> 00:22:10,763
[michelle_richter]: good hands

623
00:22:13,285 –> 00:22:17,898
[mark_chamberlain]: i spent the last ten years working
on a think tank project that i started

624
00:22:17,955 –> 00:22:18,178
[michelle_richter]: yeah

625
00:22:17,978 –> 00:22:22,485
[mark_chamberlain]: in two thousand ten and the objective
was to try and get l d to

626
00:22:22,545 –> 00:22:26,585
[mark_chamberlain]: translate to individuals and l d i
not in the way that the u k

627
00:22:26,865 –> 00:22:30,790
[mark_chamberlain]: used leverage to try and come up
with you now meeting a funding obligation

628
00:22:30,920 –> 00:22:31,021
[bruno_caron]: oh

629
00:22:31,226 –> 00:22:31,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: mark

630
00:22:31,891 –> 00:22:31,931
[mark_chamberlain]: l

631
00:22:31,930 –> 00:22:32,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: can

632
00:22:31,971 –> 00:22:31,991
[mark_chamberlain]: d

633
00:22:32,071 –> 00:22:34,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: you define l d i for the
broader audience

634
00:22:33,948 –> 00:22:34,608
[bruno_caron]: okay

635
00:22:35,433 –> 00:22:36,896
[mark_chamberlain]: liability driven investing

636
00:22:36,425 –> 00:22:36,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

637
00:22:36,888 –> 00:22:37,172
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:22:38,158 –> 00:22:39,841
[mark_chamberlain]: is what the acronym stands for and

639
00:22:40,376 –> 00:22:40,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

640
00:22:40,542 –> 00:22:41,083
[mark_chamberlain]: it’s something

641
00:22:40,878 –> 00:22:41,101
[bruno_caron]: may

642
00:22:41,163 –> 00:22:42,545
[mark_chamberlain]: that the corporate

643
00:22:42,206 –> 00:22:42,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

644
00:22:42,585 –> 00:22:44,048
[mark_chamberlain]: defined benefit plans moved

645
00:22:44,045 –> 00:22:44,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

646
00:22:44,128 –> 00:22:47,293
[mark_chamberlain]: to following basically the moment and really

647
00:22:47,075 –> 00:22:47,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:22:47,353 –> 00:22:52,362
[mark_chamberlain]: increased after the pension protection act in
two thousand six where there was a c

649
00:22:52,582 –> 00:22:52,983
[mark_chamberlain]: change

650
00:22:53,105 –> 00:22:53,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

651
00:22:53,243 –> 00:22:58,231
[mark_chamberlain]: in the funding ratio calculations for d
b plants they could no longer use

652
00:22:58,565 –> 00:22:58,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

653
00:22:58,592 –> 00:23:06,005
[mark_chamberlain]: one discount rate to figure out what
whether they were funded or not and the

654
00:23:06,065 –> 00:23:07,287
[mark_chamberlain]: new rules said that for

655
00:23:07,488 –> 00:23:09,228
[bruno_caron]: yeah

656
00:23:07,928 –> 00:23:08,990
[mark_chamberlain]: those assets that

657
00:23:08,945 –> 00:23:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

658
00:23:09,170 –> 00:23:13,077
[mark_chamberlain]: were the essential assets of the plan
to be fully

659
00:23:13,095 –> 00:23:13,338
[michelle_richter]: yes

660
00:23:13,177 –> 00:23:19,124
[mark_chamberlain]: funded meaning for those retires that are
already in retire that part of the plan

661
00:23:19,204 –> 00:23:21,427
[mark_chamberlain]: had to be fully funded to be
secure

662
00:23:21,348 –> 00:23:22,158
[bruno_caron]: yeah

663
00:23:22,027 –> 00:23:23,429
[mark_chamberlain]: so they said those assets

664
00:23:23,465 –> 00:23:23,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

665
00:23:23,669 –> 00:23:24,530
[mark_chamberlain]: have to use a discount

666
00:23:24,386 –> 00:23:24,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

667
00:23:24,610 –> 00:23:29,267
[mark_chamberlain]: rate that’s basically a risk free rate
a short term you know investment grade bond

668
00:23:29,347 –> 00:23:33,774
[mark_chamberlain]: rate where as he for the employes
that are retiring down the road twenty thirty

669
00:23:33,794 –> 00:23:39,004
[mark_chamberlain]: years out they could use a longer
duration interest rate calculation so they can okay

670
00:23:39,647 –> 00:23:44,786
[mark_chamberlain]: we call a three bucket approach they
segmented the assets of the plan based on

671
00:23:45,026 –> 00:23:51,276
[mark_chamberlain]: how risky the retirement funding need was
and so it’s really an asset liability matching

672
00:23:51,637 –> 00:23:52,358
[mark_chamberlain]: kind of a formula

673
00:23:52,618 –> 00:23:52,638
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

674
00:23:53,179 –> 00:23:55,583
[mark_chamberlain]: so we said why couldn’t that apply
to individuals

675
00:23:56,096 –> 00:23:56,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

676
00:23:56,124 –> 00:24:01,758
[mark_chamberlain]: because if you try and make the
translation in terms of utility what onamous call

677
00:24:02,483 –> 00:24:03,388
[mark_chamberlain]: what’s the utility

678
00:24:03,035 –> 00:24:03,056
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:24:03,489 –> 00:24:03,549
[mark_chamberlain]: of

680
00:24:03,618 –> 00:24:03,881
[bruno_caron]: oh

681
00:24:03,871 –> 00:24:03,971
[mark_chamberlain]: the

682
00:24:03,905 –> 00:24:03,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:24:04,012 –> 00:24:10,317
[mark_chamberlain]: position for that individual the utility of
the essential expenses their food shelter

684
00:24:10,080 –> 00:24:10,101
[michelle_richter]: a

685
00:24:10,397 –> 00:24:16,823
[mark_chamberlain]: and health insurance is different than their
utility for travel and vacation expenses much less

686
00:24:16,903 –> 00:24:20,750
[mark_chamberlain]: essential and so lot of lot of
thinkers in the industry have come up with

687
00:24:20,850 –> 00:24:21,972
[mark_chamberlain]: you know a way of saying let’s

688
00:24:21,894 –> 00:24:21,915
[michelle_richter]: m

689
00:24:22,853 –> 00:24:26,059
[mark_chamberlain]: let’s they’ve use different terms for it
but

690
00:24:26,096 –> 00:24:26,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

691
00:24:27,401 –> 00:24:28,784
[mark_chamberlain]: they basically said let’s about

692
00:24:28,766 –> 00:24:30,386
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

693
00:24:28,945 –> 00:24:30,169
[mark_chamberlain]: using annuities for

694
00:24:30,896 –> 00:24:31,161
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

695
00:24:31,614 –> 00:24:35,764
[mark_chamberlain]: most necessary part of a person’s balance
sheet in retirement

696
00:24:35,295 –> 00:24:35,315
[michelle_richter]: m

697
00:24:35,705 –> 00:24:35,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

698
00:24:36,385 –> 00:24:41,155
[mark_chamberlain]: and get those things funded in a
secure way and we could think about using

699
00:24:41,576 –> 00:24:46,464
[mark_chamberlain]: something that can have more variability for
the expenses that more discretionary

700
00:24:46,290 –> 00:24:46,310
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

701
00:24:47,145 –> 00:24:48,127
[mark_chamberlain]: and we think that applies

702
00:24:47,937 –> 00:24:47,958
[bruno_caron]: m

703
00:24:48,568 –> 00:24:49,449
[mark_chamberlain]: almost on a one to

704
00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:49,460
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

705
00:24:49,549 –> 00:24:56,437
[mark_chamberlain]: one basis just based on economics one
ant and so the idea that corporate pension

706
00:24:56,538 –> 00:25:02,596
[mark_chamberlain]: plans we’re forced to move down this
road in two thousand six but in the

707
00:25:02,956 –> 00:25:03,418
[mark_chamberlain]: personal

708
00:25:03,215 –> 00:25:03,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

709
00:25:03,538 –> 00:25:05,985
[mark_chamberlain]: financial planning world we’re still

710
00:25:06,116 –> 00:25:06,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

711
00:25:06,126 –> 00:25:13,029
[mark_chamberlain]: treating individuals in most software like old
defined benefit plants and we use one discount

712
00:25:13,089 –> 00:25:17,496
[mark_chamberlain]: rate which is usually based on i
didn’t expect to return from risk assets to

713
00:25:17,536 –> 00:25:22,927
[mark_chamberlain]: figure out whether somebody’s fully funded so
i record mentation is that the planning shift

714
00:25:23,288 –> 00:25:26,255
[mark_chamberlain]: to a discussion with participants about let’s
let’s

715
00:25:26,130 –> 00:25:26,150
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

716
00:25:26,515 –> 00:25:28,641
[mark_chamberlain]: have you sit down and figure out
with your spouse

717
00:25:28,826 –> 00:25:30,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

718
00:25:29,523 –> 00:25:30,889
[mark_chamberlain]: what your essential expenses

719
00:25:30,836 –> 00:25:31,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

720
00:25:31,010 –> 00:25:36,425
[mark_chamberlain]: are put those in the bucket number
one bucket number two could be the ones

721
00:25:36,465 –> 00:25:39,508
[mark_chamberlain]: that follow after that in terms of
need and then bucket number three could be

722
00:25:40,049 –> 00:25:43,072
[mark_chamberlain]: you know your your less essential or
your optional expenses

723
00:25:42,618 –> 00:25:42,879
[bruno_caron]: yeah

724
00:25:43,613 –> 00:25:46,341
[mark_chamberlain]: you could think about finding them differently
but for the first bucket

725
00:25:47,028 –> 00:25:47,231
[bruno_caron]: oh

726
00:25:47,134 –> 00:25:48,508
[mark_chamberlain]: should really consider an annuity

727
00:25:49,791 –> 00:25:52,736
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m michel a mark i want to
jump in here so really interesting topic i

728
00:25:53,377 –> 00:25:57,123
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: just to pick it back i want
you just said mark so m the average

729
00:25:57,343 –> 00:26:02,933
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: plan you know participant in particular that
employ that’s maybe approaching retirement this might be

730
00:26:03,053 –> 00:26:07,160
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: like mind blowing concept re thinking how
they’re going to contribute

731
00:26:07,145 –> 00:26:07,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

732
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:11,747
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: into their plan so from an education
perspective in particular bringing up the word annuity

733
00:26:13,398 –> 00:26:13,660
[bruno_caron]: oh

734
00:26:13,890 –> 00:26:16,334
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: now no verb michelle um but bringing
up

735
00:26:16,316 –> 00:26:16,583
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

736
00:26:16,374 –> 00:26:17,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the word annuity

737
00:26:17,325 –> 00:26:17,668
[michelle_richter]: oh

738
00:26:17,576 –> 00:26:18,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: um you know

739
00:26:18,606 –> 00:26:18,808
[michelle_richter]: yeah

740
00:26:19,139 –> 00:26:23,967
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: who’s responsible for that education getting that
plan participant at the sponsor is at the

741
00:26:24,007 –> 00:26:26,815
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: provider combination of both and then i
have follow up question to that

742
00:26:29,517 –> 00:26:33,724
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s going to be everybody
you know so it’s all

743
00:26:33,686 –> 00:26:33,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

744
00:26:33,784 –> 00:26:36,629
[michelle_richter]: of the above and more it’s going
to take

745
00:26:36,506 –> 00:26:37,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

746
00:26:36,769 –> 00:26:42,258
[michelle_richter]: industry organizations like the irikis has begun
working on consumer

747
00:26:42,198 –> 00:26:42,459
[bruno_caron]: oh

748
00:26:42,318 –> 00:26:42,639
[michelle_richter]: facing

749
00:26:42,515 –> 00:26:42,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

750
00:26:42,719 –> 00:26:44,582
[michelle_richter]: materials there is a chance

751
00:26:44,456 –> 00:26:45,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

752
00:26:44,722 –> 00:26:45,924
[michelle_richter]: we may do so together

753
00:26:45,918 –> 00:26:45,938
[bruno_caron]: o

754
00:26:46,064 –> 00:26:46,725
[michelle_richter]: with the alliance

755
00:26:46,646 –> 00:26:47,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

756
00:26:46,805 –> 00:26:50,652
[michelle_richter]: for lifetime income so i think not
only

757
00:26:50,615 –> 00:26:51,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

758
00:26:51,133 –> 00:26:56,542
[michelle_richter]: the categories in cluded are those responsible
for education but more broadly

759
00:26:56,598 –> 00:26:57,288
[bruno_caron]: yeah

760
00:26:56,742 –> 00:26:57,423
[michelle_richter]: the industry

761
00:26:57,162 –> 00:26:57,491
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: did you

762
00:26:58,184 –> 00:27:02,612
[michelle_richter]: needs through dispassionate third party kind of
organizations

763
00:27:01,796 –> 00:27:01,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

764
00:27:03,153 –> 00:27:09,168
[michelle_richter]: as well as through the individual product
providers as well as through record keepers through

765
00:27:09,208 –> 00:27:16,112
[michelle_richter]: the employer themselves the employer is the
person that the plan participant or the entity

766
00:27:16,172 –> 00:27:19,137
[michelle_richter]: that the person the participant feels they
can trust

767
00:27:19,438 –> 00:27:19,950
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

768
00:27:20,079 –> 00:27:23,645
[michelle_richter]: and rightly so so the materials have
to get you

769
00:27:24,236 –> 00:27:24,561
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

770
00:27:24,546 –> 00:27:26,610
[michelle_richter]: playin sponsors but they also have to
get

771
00:27:26,696 –> 00:27:26,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

772
00:27:27,251 –> 00:27:30,336
[michelle_richter]: from there to to the end participants
and that’s never

773
00:27:30,086 –> 00:27:30,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:27:30,436 –> 00:27:30,917
[michelle_richter]: an easy

775
00:27:32,216 –> 00:27:32,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

776
00:27:32,960 –> 00:27:33,461
[michelle_richter]: task to

777
00:27:33,446 –> 00:27:34,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

778
00:27:33,561 –> 00:27:38,069
[michelle_richter]: accomplish because most men gins choose not
to engage with their plans

779
00:27:38,556 –> 00:27:39,030
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

780
00:27:38,830 –> 00:27:39,051
[michelle_richter]: um

781
00:27:39,305 –> 00:27:39,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

782
00:27:39,692 –> 00:27:41,134
[michelle_richter]: and that’s pretty unfortunate

783
00:27:41,298 –> 00:27:41,521
[bruno_caron]: oh

784
00:27:41,334 –> 00:27:44,800
[michelle_richter]: but they choose not to write up
until the point of retirement and then they

785
00:27:44,900 –> 00:27:51,553
[michelle_richter]: experience overwhelm or the perience shame for
not having saved enough and at that point

786
00:27:52,275 –> 00:27:53,918
[michelle_richter]: there’s you know a real challenge

787
00:27:53,816 –> 00:27:54,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:27:54,118 –> 00:27:54,299
[michelle_richter]: to

789
00:27:54,716 –> 00:27:54,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

790
00:27:55,121 –> 00:27:56,383
[michelle_richter]: help them you know when it’s

791
00:27:56,880 –> 00:27:57,660
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

792
00:27:57,185 –> 00:27:57,807
[michelle_richter]: on that last

793
00:27:57,746 –> 00:27:58,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

794
00:27:57,887 –> 00:27:58,930
[michelle_richter]: day before they retire

795
00:27:58,910 –> 00:27:59,072
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

796
00:27:59,030 –> 00:28:00,413
[michelle_richter]: you know it’s much better if

797
00:28:00,671 –> 00:28:00,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

798
00:28:00,895 –> 00:28:01,356
[michelle_richter]: a financial

799
00:28:01,038 –> 00:28:01,340
[bruno_caron]: oh

800
00:28:01,286 –> 00:28:01,572
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:28:01,436 –> 00:28:04,263
[michelle_richter]: professional is in front of that person
sooner than that

802
00:28:04,470 –> 00:28:06,463
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: they kind of set it on auto
pilot so

803
00:28:07,575 –> 00:28:07,818
[michelle_richter]: yeah

804
00:28:07,641 –> 00:28:13,386
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: next question is am i hearing maybe
a new career path or even a talent

805
00:28:13,446 –> 00:28:19,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: opportunity for agents um so the plan
provider i’m just the practicality of how an

806
00:28:19,075 –> 00:28:22,841
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: annuity is sold you know who has
to sign the apple how does this happen

807
00:28:23,002 –> 00:28:23,222
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so i’m

808
00:28:23,225 –> 00:28:23,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

809
00:28:23,262 –> 00:28:28,230
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thinking through where does the role of
the agent plan is the provider hiring agents

810
00:28:28,270 –> 00:28:28,931
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: as consultants

811
00:28:29,165 –> 00:28:29,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:28:29,172 –> 00:28:32,397
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: or or agents going to have employee
opportunities in within plan

813
00:28:32,285 –> 00:28:32,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

814
00:28:32,457 –> 00:28:35,563
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: providers going forward can you speak a
little bit about how you in vision

815
00:28:35,655 –> 00:28:36,804
[michelle_richter]: yeah

816
00:28:35,883 –> 00:28:37,647
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i know we don’t know exactly but
how this

817
00:28:37,599 –> 00:28:37,782
[michelle_richter]: yeah

818
00:28:37,707 –> 00:28:38,148
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: all works

819
00:28:40,106 –> 00:28:40,266
[michelle_richter]: well

820
00:28:40,320 –> 00:28:41,130
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

821
00:28:40,627 –> 00:28:41,248
[michelle_richter]: i’m not sure

822
00:28:41,160 –> 00:28:41,760
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

823
00:28:41,368 –> 00:28:43,652
[michelle_richter]: exactly i just know it’s going a
happen

824
00:28:43,663 –> 00:28:43,864
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

825
00:28:44,093 –> 00:28:47,318
[michelle_richter]: so i think people should prepare for
the fact that it’s going to

826
00:28:47,298 –> 00:28:47,539
[bruno_caron]: oh

827
00:28:47,378 –> 00:28:47,659
[michelle_richter]: happen

828
00:28:47,636 –> 00:28:47,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

829
00:28:48,821 –> 00:28:49,722
[michelle_richter]: and my hope is

830
00:28:49,696 –> 00:28:49,837
[bruno_caron]: yeah

831
00:28:49,822 –> 00:28:52,868
[michelle_richter]: that my hope is that other

832
00:28:52,710 –> 00:28:52,957
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

833
00:28:52,948 –> 00:28:55,312
[michelle_richter]: members of the insurance community

834
00:28:55,424 –> 00:28:56,144
[paul_tyler]: oh

835
00:28:55,452 –> 00:28:55,612
[michelle_richter]: make

836
00:28:55,518 –> 00:28:55,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

837
00:28:55,713 –> 00:28:56,554
[michelle_richter]: the decision to

838
00:28:56,628 –> 00:28:56,890
[bruno_caron]: oh

839
00:28:56,634 –> 00:29:01,242
[michelle_richter]: become insurance advisors where advisors are

840
00:29:01,196 –> 00:29:01,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

841
00:29:01,302 –> 00:29:04,335
[michelle_richter]: verb sellers yeah

842
00:29:04,078 –> 00:29:04,279
[paul_tyler]: verb

843
00:29:04,367 –> 00:29:04,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: but

844
00:29:04,379 –> 00:29:04,741
[paul_tyler]: sellers

845
00:29:04,508 –> 00:29:05,489
[ramsey_d_smith]: can you hang that shingle

846
00:29:05,284 –> 00:29:05,304
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

847
00:29:05,328 –> 00:29:05,836
[bruno_caron]: uh

848
00:29:05,569 –> 00:29:06,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: now i mean it’s it’s

849
00:29:06,427 –> 00:29:06,468
[bruno_caron]: uh

850
00:29:06,551 –> 00:29:08,494
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very so the use case

851
00:29:08,294 –> 00:29:08,559
[paul_tyler]: oh

852
00:29:08,554 –> 00:29:14,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: is very clear in a world where
by the way tis a great questions like

853
00:29:14,358 –> 00:29:14,581
[bruno_caron]: yeah

854
00:29:14,564 –> 00:29:15,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: really getting right the heart

855
00:29:15,566 –> 00:29:15,730
[michelle_richter]: yeah

856
00:29:15,646 –> 00:29:16,227
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the matter there

857
00:29:16,683 –> 00:29:17,185
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thanks ramsey

858
00:29:17,489 –> 00:29:22,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: but so it’s a it’s a business
opportunity is a business opportunity for r as

859
00:29:22,698 –> 00:29:24,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: in this in the d c space
check

860
00:29:24,888 –> 00:29:25,089
[bruno_caron]: oh

861
00:29:25,342 –> 00:29:31,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there is this open knee for
open need for insurance experts in that space

862
00:29:31,795 –> 00:29:39,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: check right but it’s not clear to
me that there’s a there’s there’s a designation

863
00:29:39,728 –> 00:29:43,653
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there’s a what is the you
put up your shingle now what does that

864
00:29:43,713 –> 00:29:44,253
[ramsey_d_smith]: shingle say

865
00:29:44,488 –> 00:29:44,670
[michelle_richter]: yeah

866
00:29:44,994 –> 00:29:45,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

867
00:29:46,115 –> 00:29:47,277
[michelle_richter]: great question it’s

868
00:29:47,186 –> 00:29:48,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

869
00:29:47,337 –> 00:29:51,464
[michelle_richter]: not clear to me either i just
went and got my a if from f

870
00:29:51,565 –> 00:29:54,549
[michelle_richter]: i three sixty so that i could
be an accredited investment

871
00:29:54,326 –> 00:29:54,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

872
00:29:54,590 –> 00:29:55,150
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

873
00:29:55,595 –> 00:29:55,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

874
00:29:56,052 –> 00:30:01,942
[michelle_richter]: even though what i focus on not
so much investments right it’s it’s de cumulation

875
00:30:01,385 –> 00:30:01,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

876
00:30:02,563 –> 00:30:08,773
[michelle_richter]: but but you know so so my
thinking is i went and got my insurance

877
00:30:08,873 –> 00:30:09,314
[michelle_richter]: license

878
00:30:09,386 –> 00:30:09,589
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

879
00:30:09,394 –> 00:30:14,245
[michelle_richter]: fret and i got my have my
r i a set up i have a

880
00:30:14,305 –> 00:30:21,195
[michelle_richter]: sixty five and i am now i
have the a i f so so my

881
00:30:21,275 –> 00:30:25,297
[michelle_richter]: thinking is i’m covered under the umbrella
of those

882
00:30:25,142 –> 00:30:25,163
[mark_chamberlain]: m

883
00:30:25,357 –> 00:30:25,678
[michelle_richter]: things

884
00:30:25,736 –> 00:30:25,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

885
00:30:25,878 –> 00:30:32,449
[michelle_richter]: but i have no clarity whatsoever as
to legally how this domain develops i know

886
00:30:32,670 –> 00:30:33,271
[michelle_richter]: only that

887
00:30:33,464 –> 00:30:33,624
[paul_tyler]: yeah

888
00:30:33,812 –> 00:30:34,593
[michelle_richter]: experts is

889
00:30:34,649 –> 00:30:34,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

890
00:30:34,673 –> 00:30:39,287
[michelle_richter]: needed around inuits delivered to plan advisors

891
00:30:39,566 –> 00:30:39,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

892
00:30:39,567 –> 00:30:42,531
[michelle_richter]: so one of those is going to
be what qualifies

893
00:30:43,066 –> 00:30:43,556
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

894
00:30:43,132 –> 00:30:44,854
[michelle_richter]: mark and me to be able to
do that

895
00:30:44,966 –> 00:30:44,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

896
00:30:45,114 –> 00:30:52,306
[paul_tyler]: well interesting discussion now i think if
i come from the institutional side to say

897
00:30:52,807 –> 00:30:58,061
[paul_tyler]: know ramsey i expect this advisor to
be an r a seems like a very

898
00:30:58,182 –> 00:31:04,999
[paul_tyler]: logical response however you know michelle my
experience has been you know

899
00:31:05,156 –> 00:31:05,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

900
00:31:05,800 –> 00:31:07,641
[paul_tyler]: there’s not such there’s no such thing
as

901
00:31:07,595 –> 00:31:07,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

902
00:31:07,701 –> 00:31:09,203
[paul_tyler]: a good compensation

903
00:31:10,235 –> 00:31:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

904
00:31:10,354 –> 00:31:13,559
[paul_tyler]: perfect compensation planet really what i do
see is that

905
00:31:13,475 –> 00:31:13,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

906
00:31:13,599 –> 00:31:16,083
[paul_tyler]: the compensation has got to match up
with the results

907
00:31:16,016 –> 00:31:16,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

908
00:31:17,205 –> 00:31:18,608
[paul_tyler]: you want um

909
00:31:19,387 –> 00:31:19,689
[michelle_richter]: yes

910
00:31:20,150 –> 00:31:20,711
[paul_tyler]: you know if you think

911
00:31:20,726 –> 00:31:20,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:31:20,771 –> 00:31:25,197
[paul_tyler]: of these companies as as a pyramid
you got some very high

913
00:31:25,256 –> 00:31:25,679
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

914
00:31:25,357 –> 00:31:31,423
[paul_tyler]: earners with probably very large for once
balances at the very top economically a

915
00:31:32,645 –> 00:31:32,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:31:32,724 –> 00:31:33,625
[paul_tyler]: a fiduciary

917
00:31:33,056 –> 00:31:33,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

918
00:31:33,845 –> 00:31:38,369
[paul_tyler]: like uh annual contract probably makes sense
you know it’s it’s you know i’ve got

919
00:31:38,449 –> 00:31:43,493
[paul_tyler]: high end services ramsey remember co i
think you know

920
00:31:45,436 –> 00:31:45,960
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were great

921
00:31:45,734 –> 00:31:50,318
[paul_tyler]: i’ve lost lost track of this service
great service if you happen to be have

922
00:31:50,619 –> 00:31:52,921
[paul_tyler]: an v p title now challenge s
you go

923
00:31:52,973 –> 00:31:53,196
[mark_chamberlain]: uh

924
00:31:52,981 –> 00:32:01,368
[paul_tyler]: down down the pyramid ah they mean
these people be service michelle if if

925
00:32:01,835 –> 00:32:01,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

926
00:32:02,449 –> 00:32:06,915
[paul_tyler]: you know they’re only earning two percent
off of a twenty five thousand dollars throwing

927
00:32:07,176 –> 00:32:07,517
[paul_tyler]: balance

928
00:32:07,406 –> 00:32:07,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

929
00:32:07,597 –> 00:32:08,681
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s the answer there

930
00:32:08,756 –> 00:32:08,997
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

931
00:32:09,216 –> 00:32:11,340
[michelle_richter]: well the answer is

932
00:32:11,495 –> 00:32:11,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

933
00:32:11,501 –> 00:32:14,850
[michelle_richter]: not a um it’s not

934
00:32:15,146 –> 00:32:15,388
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

935
00:32:15,695 –> 00:32:15,876
[michelle_richter]: um

936
00:32:16,166 –> 00:32:16,471
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

937
00:32:16,257 –> 00:32:22,135
[michelle_richter]: in my view so you know i
or at least a um is to me

938
00:32:22,436 –> 00:32:28,446
[michelle_richter]: not my preferred building methodology for the
wealth management domain i do think it’s appropriate

939
00:32:28,486 –> 00:32:32,152
[michelle_richter]: for the asset management domain but that’s
going to get us off on a whole

940
00:32:32,212 –> 00:32:32,372
[michelle_richter]: other

941
00:32:32,256 –> 00:32:32,457
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

942
00:32:32,492 –> 00:32:35,678
[michelle_richter]: track and i still have it i
a tribe to deliver so

943
00:32:35,906 –> 00:32:35,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

944
00:32:36,419 –> 00:32:37,160
[michelle_richter]: um you know

945
00:32:37,343 –> 00:32:38,003
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

946
00:32:37,441 –> 00:32:37,541
[michelle_richter]: but

947
00:32:37,835 –> 00:32:37,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

948
00:32:37,941 –> 00:32:38,282
[michelle_richter]: it does

949
00:32:38,389 –> 00:32:38,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

950
00:32:38,402 –> 00:32:43,170
[michelle_richter]: tie into what i want to talk
about which is the predominance of a um

951
00:32:43,330 –> 00:32:51,170
[michelle_richter]: as a building method it does cause
distortion in thinking that i’m going to elucidate

952
00:32:51,691 –> 00:32:54,741
[michelle_richter]: pretty deeply should i go for it

953
00:32:55,319 –> 00:32:55,861
[ramsey_d_smith]: rock and roll

954
00:32:57,155 –> 00:33:03,385
[michelle_richter]: okay um this you all are get
very excited right now because i’m about to

955
00:33:03,906 –> 00:33:12,404
[michelle_richter]: go bananas and i am going to
issue called arms i’m looking for members of

956
00:33:12,785 –> 00:33:13,607
[michelle_richter]: the society

957
00:33:13,145 –> 00:33:13,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:33:13,647 –> 00:33:21,652
[michelle_richter]: of actuaries nata i r i and
any other industry group that you can think

959
00:33:21,772 –> 00:33:28,443
[michelle_richter]: of that might find this topic of
concern i am about to make a big

960
00:33:28,543 –> 00:33:34,839
[michelle_richter]: bold assert and which i will back
up with three less big assertions so big

961
00:33:34,940 –> 00:33:43,415
[michelle_richter]: bold assertion number one is that non
codification of verb sales and insurance means that

962
00:33:43,595 –> 00:33:46,740
[michelle_richter]: intellectual property cannot have value

963
00:33:46,526 –> 00:33:47,576
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

964
00:33:46,840 –> 00:33:52,992
[michelle_richter]: and insurance i g i will defend
why this is true with the following three

965
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,653
[michelle_richter]: assertions

966
00:33:53,585 –> 00:33:53,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

967
00:33:54,955 –> 00:34:00,785
[michelle_richter]: mark this moment in the podcast so
that you can tag the people that you

968
00:34:00,865 –> 00:34:04,271
[michelle_richter]: know from the industry organizations i just
mentioned

969
00:34:04,406 –> 00:34:04,648
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

970
00:34:04,772 –> 00:34:07,609
[michelle_richter]: and tell them when to start listening
it’s right here

971
00:34:07,463 –> 00:34:07,725
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

972
00:34:08,275 –> 00:34:14,826
[michelle_richter]: a non codification of verb sales and
insurance means i p can’t have value why

973
00:34:15,807 –> 00:34:22,221
[michelle_richter]: well the above mentioned fact is true
because of the intersection between how products

974
00:34:22,136 –> 00:34:22,378
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

975
00:34:22,642 –> 00:34:29,909
[michelle_richter]: sell and how trademark law works i
will explain further in a moment sertion number

976
00:34:29,989 –> 00:34:37,563
[michelle_richter]: three is that intellectual property having value
is fundamental to the functioning of a capitalistic

977
00:34:37,703 –> 00:34:48,360
[michelle_richter]: system assertion number four in a deutalized
world where insurance manufacturing is now entirely vertically

978
00:34:48,481 –> 00:34:57,335
[michelle_richter]: disintegrated from distribution i p can only
come to have value by codifying insurance advisement

979
00:34:57,896 –> 00:35:06,339
[michelle_richter]: as a scalable overseeable nationally regulated discipline
so now i move to proving assertion number

980
00:35:06,539 –> 00:35:08,702
[michelle_richter]: one i p has no value in
my

981
00:35:08,756 –> 00:35:09,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

982
00:35:08,803 –> 00:35:15,634
[michelle_richter]: domain by proving assertions to through four
starting with assertion two part one how to

983
00:35:15,674 –> 00:35:20,671
[michelle_richter]: product sell to understand this we need
first to define the word product and then

984
00:35:20,711 –> 00:35:28,095
[michelle_richter]: the word sell products are nounce in
the context of insurance and financial services products

985
00:35:28,296 –> 00:35:38,092
[michelle_richter]: are issuable containers and their distribution is
highly regulated products are issuable legale contracts within

986
00:35:38,272 –> 00:35:40,936
[michelle_richter]: which intellectual property can be imbedded

987
00:35:41,156 –> 00:35:42,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

988
00:35:41,678 –> 00:35:42,619
[michelle_richter]: and in exchange

989
00:35:42,146 –> 00:35:42,367
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

990
00:35:42,719 –> 00:35:50,633
[michelle_richter]: for the distribution of which compensation can
be paid to a financial professional in respect

991
00:35:50,853 –> 00:35:58,727
[michelle_richter]: of either but never concurrently a or
b a is from inside the noun in

992
00:35:58,847 –> 00:36:03,958
[michelle_richter]: direct respect to sale thereof this refers
to agency and brokerage

993
00:36:04,590 –> 00:36:04,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: her

994
00:36:04,780 –> 00:36:10,870
[michelle_richter]: where as b is charged upon the
a u a or a um there formed

995
00:36:11,411 –> 00:36:12,072
[michelle_richter]: following a

996
00:36:12,056 –> 00:36:12,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

997
00:36:12,192 –> 00:36:18,313
[michelle_richter]: products introduction to an advised portfolio thus
b refers to the r i a channel

998
00:36:19,465 –> 00:36:21,789
[michelle_richter]: now that we know what product means
we move on to sell

999
00:36:21,956 –> 00:36:22,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:36:22,791 –> 00:36:24,494
[michelle_richter]: sell means the exchange

1001
00:36:24,065 –> 00:36:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1002
00:36:24,654 –> 00:36:30,323
[michelle_richter]: of remuneration in direct respect to x
x is a verb in the r a

1003
00:36:30,444 –> 00:36:33,070
[michelle_richter]: channel and it’s a noun in the
agent

1004
00:36:33,019 –> 00:36:33,121
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1005
00:36:33,431 –> 00:36:42,196
[michelle_richter]: broker channels wholesalers are people who so
routinely sell holes that we can describe

1006
00:36:41,857 –> 00:36:41,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1007
00:36:42,256 –> 00:36:47,265
[michelle_richter]: their identity by adding an r to
the end of the verb that they retain

1008
00:36:47,405 –> 00:36:53,947
[michelle_richter]: we perform analogy runners routine ly run
we don’t call someone a runner who once

1009
00:36:54,027 –> 00:36:57,872
[michelle_richter]: ran across across the street so whole
sailors

1010
00:36:58,257 –> 00:36:58,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: now

1011
00:36:58,413 –> 00:37:04,720
[michelle_richter]: sell nouns holes are nouns the human
mind can’t conceive of the premise of a

1012
00:37:04,760 –> 00:37:12,125
[michelle_richter]: whole verb therefore whole sailors are people
who sell holes holes must be nouns and

1013
00:37:12,286 –> 00:37:17,717
[michelle_richter]: non sell only when they have a
whole sailor selling them whole sailors

1014
00:37:17,606 –> 00:37:17,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1015
00:37:17,837 –> 00:37:23,466
[michelle_richter]: work for either a non manufacturer or
a noun seller and organization that sells nouns

1016
00:37:23,907 –> 00:37:29,276
[michelle_richter]: will not switch witch now and it
has its whole sailers focused on selling unless

1017
00:37:29,376 –> 00:37:36,488
[michelle_richter]: the new non is more profitable than
is the incumbent now portfolio that’s the reason

1018
00:37:36,608 –> 00:37:43,700
[michelle_richter]: why a product concept cannot have value
because is valuable about the product the non

1019
00:37:44,381 –> 00:37:52,114
[michelle_richter]: is the sellers prior investment in manufacturing
and or wholesaling infrastructure not the clever intellectual

1020
00:37:52,194 –> 00:37:55,165
[michelle_richter]: prof property that does not deliver a
higher

1021
00:37:55,136 –> 00:37:55,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1022
00:37:55,225 –> 00:38:02,041
[michelle_richter]: profit margin than the incumbent so that’s
the first half of assertion to it goes

1023
00:38:02,181 –> 00:38:04,525
[michelle_richter]: way quicker from here so stick with
me okay

1024
00:38:04,805 –> 00:38:04,826
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1025
00:38:05,046 –> 00:38:06,648
[michelle_richter]: it’s like lightning from here okay

1026
00:38:07,188 –> 00:38:07,289
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1027
00:38:07,971 –> 00:38:14,582
[michelle_richter]: the second half of assertion to is
about tree marking trademark trade marking and the

1028
00:38:14,642 –> 00:38:19,991
[michelle_richter]: application of trade marking is different for
a brand name than it is for intellectual

1029
00:38:20,051 –> 00:38:25,059
[michelle_richter]: property the how you defend a brand
name in court with a trademark it’s really

1030
00:38:25,139 –> 00:38:27,483
[michelle_richter]: easy but defending intellectual property

1031
00:38:27,581 –> 00:38:27,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1032
00:38:27,683 –> 00:38:33,092
[michelle_richter]: the trade mark has more challenge to
it in this case i’m talking about intellectual

1033
00:38:33,173 –> 00:38:41,244
[michelle_richter]: property protection uh it requires the defense
of a trademark requires the intellectual property to

1034
00:38:41,304 –> 00:38:50,117
[michelle_richter]: be now embedable whereas intellectual property that
is service marked requires the i p to

1035
00:38:50,197 –> 00:38:55,924
[michelle_richter]: be verb impedible if you google trademark
definition

1036
00:38:55,916 –> 00:38:57,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah oh

1037
00:38:57,875 –> 00:39:00,419
[michelle_richter]: you see that when applied to intellectual

1038
00:39:00,326 –> 00:39:02,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1039
00:39:00,499 –> 00:39:03,404
[michelle_richter]: property defense as differs from brand defense

1040
00:39:03,596 –> 00:39:03,899
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1041
00:39:04,025 –> 00:39:09,013
[michelle_richter]: that the definition of this word requires
the ip owner to be

1042
00:39:08,975 –> 00:39:08,996
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1043
00:39:09,193 –> 00:39:17,085
[michelle_richter]: able to either manufacture or to sell
remember what sell means from the above the

1044
00:39:17,165 –> 00:39:18,126
[michelle_richter]: non right

1045
00:39:18,591 –> 00:39:18,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

1046
00:39:18,746 –> 00:39:25,412
[michelle_richter]: so product concepts can’t have value because
of the intersection between how product sells and

1047
00:39:25,753 –> 00:39:33,632
[michelle_richter]: how trade mark law is applied okay
insurance is the liability or contra asset minimization

1048
00:39:33,732 –> 00:39:34,013
[michelle_richter]: field

1049
00:39:34,523 –> 00:39:34,788
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1050
00:39:34,745 –> 00:39:38,290
[michelle_richter]: what just stick with me on insurance

1051
00:39:38,396 –> 00:39:38,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1052
00:39:38,411 –> 00:39:40,434
[michelle_richter]: is about minimizing consumers

1053
00:39:40,226 –> 00:39:40,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1054
00:39:40,494 –> 00:39:42,758
[michelle_richter]: liabilities okay and i’m not going

1055
00:39:42,685 –> 00:39:42,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1056
00:39:42,778 –> 00:39:47,326
[michelle_richter]: to bring up the contraascit thing again
super complicated so i mean shorten it by

1057
00:39:47,426 –> 00:39:56,887
[michelle_richter]: saying liability minimization insurance advisor is not
a defined term financial advisor is a defined

1058
00:39:57,027 –> 00:39:58,909
[michelle_richter]: term and it means

1059
00:39:58,954 –> 00:39:59,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1060
00:39:59,330 –> 00:40:06,647
[michelle_richter]: person who holds the authority to sell
verbs this means person has an r a

1061
00:40:06,768 –> 00:40:14,685
[michelle_richter]: affiliation r i s sell verbs only
agents and brokers sell nouns only financial advisers

1062
00:40:14,826 –> 00:40:17,971
[michelle_richter]: provide ongoing asset maximization advising

1063
00:40:18,176 –> 00:40:18,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1064
00:40:18,532 –> 00:40:19,914
[michelle_richter]: and they frequently receive

1065
00:40:19,856 –> 00:40:20,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1066
00:40:19,994 –> 00:40:22,671
[michelle_richter]: thee compensation v a u m

1067
00:40:24,296 –> 00:40:24,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1068
00:40:24,379 –> 00:40:32,051
[michelle_richter]: this asset maximization advising is a service
p imbedded in services for example managed account

1069
00:40:32,212 –> 00:40:33,594
[michelle_richter]: services provided by

1070
00:40:33,626 –> 00:40:35,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1071
00:40:33,754 –> 00:40:38,442
[michelle_richter]: morning star ink are service markable thus
they have been

1072
00:40:38,413 –> 00:40:38,554
[ramsey_d_smith]: sir

1073
00:40:38,602 –> 00:40:46,092
[michelle_richter]: service marked not trade markable and not
trade marked because their verbs which are services

1074
00:40:46,613 –> 00:40:57,288
[michelle_richter]: not none absent codifying insurance advisement so
that insurance professionals can also sell herbs by

1075
00:40:57,368 –> 00:40:57,849
[michelle_richter]: which i am

1076
00:40:57,987 –> 00:40:58,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

1077
00:40:57,989 –> 00:41:04,100
[michelle_richter]: saying absent popularizing ability approach like benefits
under advisement

1078
00:41:04,166 –> 00:41:04,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1079
00:41:04,701 –> 00:41:07,926
[michelle_richter]: or income under advisement there cannot

1080
00:41:07,856 –> 00:41:08,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1081
00:41:08,046 –> 00:41:12,514
[michelle_richter]: be valued to intellectual property in our
field because you cannot

1082
00:41:12,536 –> 00:41:13,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1083
00:41:12,594 –> 00:41:17,842
[michelle_richter]: defend it v s service mark because
there is no framework for scalablyselling services

1084
00:41:17,786 –> 00:41:17,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1085
00:41:17,963 –> 00:41:22,871
[michelle_richter]: in our domain and you can’t sell
it as a noun because an organization can

1086
00:41:23,011 –> 00:41:29,462
[michelle_richter]: only monetize a trade mark and insure
from previous investment in manufacturing and distribution and

1087
00:41:29,542 –> 00:41:35,412
[michelle_richter]: encompant only does this if the product
is more profitable than it’s existing portfolio that’s

1088
00:41:35,512 –> 00:41:36,033
[michelle_richter]: not likely

1089
00:41:35,831 –> 00:41:36,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1090
00:41:36,153 –> 00:41:39,398
[michelle_richter]: in today’s feconte its environment so again
because

1091
00:41:39,386 –> 00:41:40,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1092
00:41:39,458 –> 00:41:40,580
[michelle_richter]: my prior words are true

1093
00:41:41,006 –> 00:41:41,288
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1094
00:41:41,201 –> 00:41:42,884
[michelle_richter]: not having a scale able advisement

1095
00:41:42,902 –> 00:41:42,922
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1096
00:41:42,964 –> 00:41:44,647
[michelle_richter]: frame for liability reduction

1097
00:41:44,952 –> 00:41:44,972
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1098
00:41:45,088 –> 00:41:50,437
[michelle_richter]: means intellectual property that is service marked
in our field also cannot value because it

1099
00:41:50,477 –> 00:41:56,266
[michelle_richter]: cannot be sold so concludes my proof
of assertion to and i’ll move on to

1100
00:41:56,307 –> 00:42:01,316
[michelle_richter]: assertion three and less there are questions
of which i’m sure there are ready oh

1101
00:42:02,944 –> 00:42:04,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is a this is a complex

1102
00:42:04,127 –> 00:42:04,250
[michelle_richter]: ah

1103
00:42:04,446 –> 00:42:06,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: geometric proof you’re taking us through here

1104
00:42:07,475 –> 00:42:08,742
[michelle_richter]: it is i understand that

1105
00:42:08,714 –> 00:42:08,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: europe

1106
00:42:08,842 –> 00:42:10,129
[michelle_richter]: but i’m doing it for a reason

1107
00:42:10,430 –> 00:42:11,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re a mute paul

1108
00:42:11,487 –> 00:42:11,790
[michelle_richter]: i want

1109
00:42:13,257 –> 00:42:13,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1110
00:42:13,325 –> 00:42:18,053
[michelle_richter]: i want the industry organizations that are
or flagged to hear this

1111
00:42:18,446 –> 00:42:18,814
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1112
00:42:18,594 –> 00:42:20,898
[michelle_richter]: re play it they’re gonna have to
play it a lot of times

1113
00:42:20,834 –> 00:42:21,914
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1114
00:42:20,986 –> 00:42:21,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1115
00:42:21,018 –> 00:42:21,719
[michelle_richter]: to get the logic

1116
00:42:22,595 –> 00:42:22,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1117
00:42:22,861 –> 00:42:23,221
[michelle_richter]: and so

1118
00:42:23,156 –> 00:42:23,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1119
00:42:23,522 –> 00:42:24,504
[michelle_richter]: i’m going really

1120
00:42:24,505 –> 00:42:24,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1121
00:42:24,604 –> 00:42:25,786
[michelle_richter]: in depth in what the logic

1122
00:42:25,870 –> 00:42:25,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1123
00:42:25,906 –> 00:42:29,634
[michelle_richter]: is so that it can’t be said
she just at a high level

1124
00:42:29,585 –> 00:42:29,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1125
00:42:29,794 –> 00:42:32,079
[michelle_richter]: said you know something crazy and she’s
always saying

1126
00:42:32,000 –> 00:42:32,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1127
00:42:32,139 –> 00:42:33,602
[michelle_richter]: something crazy so i can just

1128
00:42:33,524 –> 00:42:33,727
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1129
00:42:33,722 –> 00:42:35,807
[michelle_richter]: kind of like whip it off you

1130
00:42:35,745 –> 00:42:35,926
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1131
00:42:35,847 –> 00:42:39,055
[michelle_richter]: know like i’m going deep into it
because my words are true

1132
00:42:39,014 –> 00:42:39,277
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1133
00:42:39,296 –> 00:42:42,243
[michelle_richter]: and they have implications to society more
broadly

1134
00:42:42,334 –> 00:42:44,898
[paul_tyler]: well yeah and i just a couple

1135
00:42:45,596 –> 00:42:45,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1136
00:42:45,779 –> 00:42:46,260
[paul_tyler]: one question

1137
00:42:46,043 –> 00:42:46,284
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1138
00:42:46,360 –> 00:42:46,681
[paul_tyler]: a couple of

1139
00:42:46,685 –> 00:42:46,827
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1140
00:42:46,721 –> 00:42:47,702
[paul_tyler]: observations one is

1141
00:42:47,655 –> 00:42:47,778
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1142
00:42:48,945 –> 00:42:50,728
[paul_tyler]: can we put this in our show
notes or do you have this on a

1143
00:42:50,768 –> 00:42:52,450
[paul_tyler]: website where we can put a link
to it because

1144
00:42:52,355 –> 00:42:52,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1145
00:42:52,490 –> 00:42:53,312
[paul_tyler]: people need to read this

1146
00:42:53,325 –> 00:42:53,468
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1147
00:42:53,773 –> 00:42:54,681
[paul_tyler]: they will have to e is

1148
00:42:54,837 –> 00:42:55,321
[michelle_richter]: i’ll give it to you

1149
00:42:55,374 –> 00:42:56,195
[paul_tyler]: okay good

1150
00:42:56,537 –> 00:42:56,658
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1151
00:42:56,675 –> 00:42:56,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1152
00:42:56,896 –> 00:42:59,060
[paul_tyler]: other observation is you know these words
are

1153
00:42:59,366 –> 00:42:59,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1154
00:43:00,021 –> 00:43:05,591
[paul_tyler]: complicated couple o things i heard in
their agents versus advisors because even more complicated

1155
00:43:05,631 –> 00:43:06,813
[paul_tyler]: michele than that like for instance

1156
00:43:07,717 –> 00:43:07,779
[michelle_richter]: ah

1157
00:43:07,894 –> 00:43:12,562
[paul_tyler]: state of connecticut does not allow us
to talk about agents is that interesting as

1158
00:43:12,662 –> 00:43:17,931
[paul_tyler]: a independent product manufacture we have to
call them independent producers does anybody

1159
00:43:17,912 –> 00:43:17,953
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1160
00:43:17,991 –> 00:43:18,131
[paul_tyler]: know

1161
00:43:18,175 –> 00:43:18,360
[michelle_richter]: huh

1162
00:43:18,192 –> 00:43:19,654
[paul_tyler]: that does anybody under and they

1163
00:43:19,685 –> 00:43:19,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1164
00:43:19,694 –> 00:43:20,616
[paul_tyler]: do consume now

1165
00:43:21,015 –> 00:43:21,137
[michelle_richter]: no

1166
00:43:21,677 –> 00:43:22,960
[paul_tyler]: but that you are an independent

1167
00:43:22,816 –> 00:43:22,918
[michelle_richter]: no

1168
00:43:23,220 –> 00:43:27,988
[paul_tyler]: you know ramsey is an independent producer
so just footnote that there are some very

1169
00:43:28,148 –> 00:43:28,489
[paul_tyler]: strange

1170
00:43:28,195 –> 00:43:28,663
[michelle_richter]: damn

1171
00:43:28,569 –> 00:43:30,732
[paul_tyler]: vagaries in existing

1172
00:43:30,545 –> 00:43:30,786
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1173
00:43:31,193 –> 00:43:31,982
[paul_tyler]: league structures

1174
00:43:32,378 –> 00:43:32,680
[michelle_richter]: and not

1175
00:43:33,164 –> 00:43:33,389
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1176
00:43:33,455 –> 00:43:33,795
[michelle_richter]: that’s the

1177
00:43:33,806 –> 00:43:34,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

1178
00:43:33,855 –> 00:43:37,020
[michelle_richter]: whole point i mean it’s you know
our field is state regulated

1179
00:43:37,004 –> 00:43:37,347
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1180
00:43:37,101 –> 00:43:39,184
[michelle_richter]: and every state has a different impression

1181
00:43:38,904 –> 00:43:38,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1182
00:43:39,324 –> 00:43:40,486
[michelle_richter]: of what our behavior

1183
00:43:40,454 –> 00:43:41,234
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1184
00:43:40,546 –> 00:43:43,972
[michelle_richter]: is supposed to look like and so
because it’s not a nationally

1185
00:43:43,685 –> 00:43:43,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1186
00:43:44,072 –> 00:43:44,633
[michelle_richter]: regulated

1187
00:43:44,497 –> 00:43:44,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1188
00:43:44,733 –> 00:43:46,307
[michelle_richter]: field you can’t get scale able

1189
00:43:46,955 –> 00:43:47,197
[paul_tyler]: right

1190
00:43:48,215 –> 00:43:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1191
00:43:48,425 –> 00:43:52,789
[michelle_richter]: but since but because of demutualization now

1192
00:43:52,856 –> 00:43:52,957
[paul_tyler]: ah

1193
00:43:53,771 –> 00:43:57,898
[michelle_richter]: it’s no longer the case that distribution
and manufacturing are in the same

1194
00:43:57,867 –> 00:43:57,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1195
00:43:57,998 –> 00:43:58,799
[michelle_richter]: organization

1196
00:43:58,946 –> 00:43:59,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1197
00:43:59,480 –> 00:44:02,726
[michelle_richter]: so i’m not sure that the i’m
sure

1198
00:44:02,735 –> 00:44:03,001
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

1199
00:44:02,866 –> 00:44:05,110
[michelle_richter]: that state regulation of products

1200
00:44:04,676 –> 00:44:05,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1201
00:44:05,390 –> 00:44:06,712
[michelle_richter]: is has merit

1202
00:44:06,944 –> 00:44:08,294
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1203
00:44:07,313 –> 00:44:09,337
[michelle_richter]: i’m less certain that state regulation of

1204
00:44:09,335 –> 00:44:09,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1205
00:44:09,374 –> 00:44:09,741
[paul_tyler]: okay

1206
00:44:09,397 –> 00:44:13,964
[michelle_richter]: distribution remains the most meritorious method of
oversight

1207
00:44:14,004 –> 00:44:14,186
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1208
00:44:14,276 –> 00:44:14,517
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1209
00:44:14,727 –> 00:44:19,767
[michelle_richter]: given that those entities no longer live
with each other no

1210
00:44:20,446 –> 00:44:22,109
[paul_tyler]: interesting ay that’s a whole nother podcast

1211
00:44:21,926 –> 00:44:21,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1212
00:44:23,527 –> 00:44:23,729
[michelle_richter]: yes

1213
00:44:24,112 –> 00:44:24,412
[paul_tyler]: the other

1214
00:44:24,301 –> 00:44:24,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1215
00:44:24,553 –> 00:44:25,735
[paul_tyler]: observation i love

1216
00:44:25,685 –> 00:44:25,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1217
00:44:25,815 –> 00:44:29,281
[paul_tyler]: your concept of income under management however

1218
00:44:29,516 –> 00:44:29,819
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1219
00:44:29,521 –> 00:44:33,307
[paul_tyler]: man my head starts to spend because
think of any one of our products g

1220
00:44:33,488 –> 00:44:33,688
[paul_tyler]: is that

1221
00:44:33,656 –> 00:44:34,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1222
00:44:33,708 –> 00:44:38,196
[paul_tyler]: the you know i’m not expecting is
that the guaranteed income off of the product

1223
00:44:38,376 –> 00:44:39,818
[paul_tyler]: is this the potential

1224
00:44:39,875 –> 00:44:40,019
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1225
00:44:39,899 –> 00:44:41,942
[paul_tyler]: income based on you mark you know

1226
00:44:41,985 –> 00:44:43,427
[michelle_richter]: it’s the max of

1227
00:44:43,484 –> 00:44:43,747
[paul_tyler]: yea

1228
00:44:44,008 –> 00:44:52,682
[michelle_richter]: the guaranteed benefit made available through the
product structure or dolls translation metric that was

1229
00:44:53,003 –> 00:44:53,784
[michelle_richter]: interim final

1230
00:44:53,756 –> 00:44:54,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1231
00:44:54,065 –> 00:44:54,185
[michelle_richter]: dan

1232
00:44:54,224 –> 00:44:54,508
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1233
00:44:54,425 –> 00:44:57,891
[michelle_richter]: i think became final guidance on second
quarter twenty twenty

1234
00:44:57,725 –> 00:44:57,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1235
00:44:57,951 –> 00:44:58,692
[michelle_richter]: two statements

1236
00:44:58,346 –> 00:44:58,879
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1237
00:44:59,253 –> 00:44:59,414
[michelle_richter]: that

1238
00:44:59,426 –> 00:44:59,749
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1239
00:44:59,554 –> 00:45:01,337
[michelle_richter]: translated assets to income

1240
00:45:01,706 –> 00:45:02,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1241
00:45:01,838 –> 00:45:04,402
[michelle_richter]: that would be the appropriate method by
which to

1242
00:45:04,405 –> 00:45:04,526
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1243
00:45:04,502 –> 00:45:05,023
[michelle_richter]: accomplish

1244
00:45:04,826 –> 00:45:05,212
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1245
00:45:05,564 –> 00:45:06,206
[michelle_richter]: a building base

1246
00:45:06,146 –> 00:45:06,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1247
00:45:06,306 –> 00:45:07,492
[michelle_richter]: where income under management

1248
00:45:09,566 –> 00:45:09,892
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1249
00:45:12,490 –> 00:45:12,591
[michelle_richter]: so

1250
00:45:12,566 –> 00:45:12,707
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1251
00:45:13,415 –> 00:45:17,582
[michelle_richter]: it should be considered in my view
and in particular it should be considered because

1252
00:45:17,822 –> 00:45:21,909
[michelle_richter]: aria has retirement income in the name
is

1253
00:45:21,837 –> 00:45:21,857
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1254
00:45:22,009 –> 00:45:23,431
[michelle_richter]: not about maximization

1255
00:45:23,045 –> 00:45:23,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1256
00:45:23,491 –> 00:45:24,092
[michelle_richter]: of assets

1257
00:45:23,734 –> 00:45:24,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1258
00:45:24,373 –> 00:45:25,535
[michelle_richter]: everybody complain is

1259
00:45:25,616 –> 00:45:25,778
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1260
00:45:25,635 –> 00:45:29,842
[michelle_richter]: that d c is focused exclusively on
acid accumulation

1261
00:45:29,987 –> 00:45:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1262
00:45:30,343 –> 00:45:35,351
[michelle_richter]: and you want to know why it’s
because of the method by which compensation occurs

1263
00:45:35,852 –> 00:45:36,092
[michelle_richter]: right

1264
00:45:35,936 –> 00:45:36,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1265
00:45:36,934 –> 00:45:41,274
[michelle_richter]: like it always is right everywhere in
humanity

1266
00:45:41,285 –> 00:45:41,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1267
00:45:41,536 –> 00:45:42,261
[michelle_richter]: that’s the truth

1268
00:45:43,085 –> 00:45:43,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1269
00:45:43,425 –> 00:45:47,270
[michelle_richter]: so you know if we want something
different and we continue to do the same

1270
00:45:47,350 –> 00:45:52,367
[michelle_richter]: thing we experience the definition of crazy
so

1271
00:45:52,376 –> 00:45:52,597
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1272
00:45:52,567 –> 00:45:55,519
[michelle_richter]: in order to do to accomplish something
different we must do

1273
00:45:55,526 –> 00:45:56,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1274
00:45:55,639 –> 00:45:56,322
[michelle_richter]: something different

1275
00:45:57,575 –> 00:45:57,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1276
00:45:59,065 –> 00:46:03,672
[michelle_richter]: my third assertion is that the impossibility
of intellectual property

1277
00:46:03,716 –> 00:46:03,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1278
00:46:03,772 –> 00:46:10,504
[michelle_richter]: having value in my field is an
offense about which utter outrage is merited it

1279
00:46:10,564 –> 00:46:10,624
[michelle_richter]: is

1280
00:46:10,646 –> 00:46:10,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1281
00:46:10,844 –> 00:46:18,457
[michelle_richter]: i direct affront to the very principles
of capitalism capitalism as a governing frame relies

1282
00:46:18,637 –> 00:46:25,589
[michelle_richter]: heavily upon intellectual property being protectable and
mont is able so as to encourage invention

1283
00:46:26,186 –> 00:46:26,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1284
00:46:26,390 –> 00:46:30,898
[michelle_richter]: thus i question why is mine the
soul field in this

1285
00:46:30,785 –> 00:46:30,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1286
00:46:30,998 –> 00:46:36,487
[michelle_richter]: country to which capitalism is not permitted
to apply on why are other members of

1287
00:46:36,587 –> 00:46:41,856
[michelle_richter]: my community not apoplectic about my true
words consider the

1288
00:46:41,825 –> 00:46:42,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1289
00:46:41,936 –> 00:46:49,088
[michelle_richter]: implications that not codifying verb sales in
our domain has now that post secure annuities

1290
00:46:49,268 –> 00:46:56,480
[michelle_richter]: are permissible in plans plan advisors like
all other faduciaries in america are inherently taught

1291
00:46:56,580 –> 00:47:04,213
[michelle_richter]: that asset maximization is the only valid
lens through which financial advisement can occur yet

1292
00:47:04,494 –> 00:47:09,843
[michelle_richter]: i believe that financials occur not only
on the left side of the consumer balance

1293
00:47:09,923 –> 00:47:16,173
[michelle_richter]: sheet but all so on their income
statement their statement of net worth their cash

1294
00:47:16,253 –> 00:47:16,434
[michelle_richter]: flow

1295
00:47:16,376 –> 00:47:16,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1296
00:47:16,574 –> 00:47:18,918
[michelle_richter]: statement and the right side

1297
00:47:18,686 –> 00:47:18,948
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1298
00:47:19,018 –> 00:47:20,681
[michelle_richter]: of their balance sheet which

1299
00:47:20,524 –> 00:47:20,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1300
00:47:20,741 –> 00:47:23,225
[michelle_richter]: is where insurance plays plan

1301
00:47:23,156 –> 00:47:24,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1302
00:47:23,366 –> 00:47:25,818
[michelle_richter]: advisors don’t know annuities and vice

1303
00:47:25,676 –> 00:47:26,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1304
00:47:25,919 –> 00:47:31,211
[michelle_richter]: versa advisors can’t even begin to imagine
why we insurance

1305
00:47:30,795 –> 00:47:30,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1306
00:47:31,271 –> 00:47:36,400
[michelle_richter]: people believe our solutions have value because
they are taught to see the world through

1307
00:47:36,440 –> 00:47:38,343
[michelle_richter]: the lens of asset maximization

1308
00:47:37,916 –> 00:47:38,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1309
00:47:38,844 –> 00:47:44,373
[michelle_richter]: in there not taught about liability minimization
as a valid entry point to a consumer

1310
00:47:44,473 –> 00:47:45,395
[michelle_richter]: finance world view

1311
00:47:45,695 –> 00:47:45,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1312
00:47:46,517 –> 00:47:47,959
[michelle_richter]: annuities in d c will

1313
00:47:47,906 –> 00:47:48,152
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1314
00:47:48,140 –> 00:47:51,385
[michelle_richter]: only take off if we band together
to fight for their ace

1315
00:47:51,905 –> 00:47:51,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1316
00:47:52,407 –> 00:47:53,088
[michelle_richter]: actuaries

1317
00:47:52,611 –> 00:47:52,632
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1318
00:47:53,208 –> 00:47:56,053
[michelle_richter]: for example used to have a role
in asset

1319
00:47:56,126 –> 00:47:57,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1320
00:47:56,133 –> 00:47:57,956
[michelle_richter]: liability matching when we

1321
00:47:57,905 –> 00:47:57,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1322
00:47:58,196 –> 00:48:00,941
[michelle_richter]: as a society had defined benefit pension
plans

1323
00:48:00,845 –> 00:48:00,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1324
00:48:01,902 –> 00:48:06,408
[michelle_richter]: but now in d c there isn’t
a natural spot for an actuary in d

1325
00:48:06,628 –> 00:48:06,648
[michelle_richter]: c

1326
00:48:06,905 –> 00:48:06,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1327
00:48:06,968 –> 00:48:07,348
[michelle_richter]: because

1328
00:48:07,556 –> 00:48:07,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1329
00:48:07,809 –> 00:48:14,235
[michelle_richter]: liability consideration is not yet required so
as to advise in d c s d

1330
00:48:14,455 –> 00:48:23,951
[michelle_richter]: c again naturally emphasizes asset maximization so
the society of actuaries nata and iri must

1331
00:48:24,192 –> 00:48:28,879
[michelle_richter]: all strongly consider the possibly ity that
my words might be true and if they

1332
00:48:28,979 –> 00:48:31,723
[michelle_richter]: feel they might be they need to
begin acting

1333
00:48:31,525 –> 00:48:31,646
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1334
00:48:31,983 –> 00:48:34,056
[michelle_richter]: yesterday representatives

1335
00:48:33,866 –> 00:48:34,049
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1336
00:48:34,196 –> 00:48:36,320
[michelle_richter]: of any of these industry organizations

1337
00:48:36,446 –> 00:48:38,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1338
00:48:36,560 –> 00:48:40,507
[michelle_richter]: or other organizations that can help change
the circumstances

1339
00:48:40,316 –> 00:48:40,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1340
00:48:40,627 –> 00:48:43,912
[michelle_richter]: i have just described are invited to
email me at

1341
00:48:44,195 –> 00:48:44,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1342
00:48:44,213 –> 00:48:48,300
[michelle_richter]: m rector f s at g mail
dot com and request a

1343
00:48:48,296 –> 00:48:48,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1344
00:48:48,380 –> 00:48:50,844
[michelle_richter]: death that further explains this perspective

1345
00:48:50,906 –> 00:48:51,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1346
00:48:51,245 –> 00:48:53,689
[michelle_richter]: and the dangers that follow logically therefrom

1347
00:48:54,418 –> 00:48:54,479
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

1348
00:48:54,590 –> 00:48:59,799
[michelle_richter]: lastly for this diatribe i hold and
and advisement should be a national field again

1349
00:48:59,979 –> 00:49:05,268
[michelle_richter]: it is not about the non placement
it is about contextual advisement it is not

1350
00:49:05,348 –> 00:49:11,478
[michelle_richter]: persacorrelated to an individual contract the way
some state insurance law allows annuity consulting to

1351
00:49:11,558 –> 00:49:13,862
[michelle_richter]: a car that does not make sense
to be

1352
00:49:13,886 –> 00:49:14,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1353
00:49:13,942 –> 00:49:20,133
[michelle_richter]: state regulated should be policed similarly to
how r s are overseen achieving this framework

1354
00:49:20,273 –> 00:49:25,822
[michelle_richter]: is my career goal twenty seven years
remain until i begin taking social security at

1355
00:49:25,902 –> 00:49:31,932
[michelle_richter]: age seventy it thus follows logically that
i will not stop truthfully communicating my concerns

1356
00:49:32,013 –> 00:49:34,429
[michelle_richter]: on these matters for at least twenty
seven more years

1357
00:49:34,586 –> 00:49:34,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1358
00:49:35,616 –> 00:49:37,915
[michelle_richter]: or until it’s solved so

1359
00:49:38,036 –> 00:49:38,359
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1360
00:49:38,436 –> 00:49:41,000
[michelle_richter]: i thank you so much for your
patients and listening to me

1361
00:49:40,955 –> 00:49:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1362
00:49:41,080 –> 00:49:41,761
[michelle_richter]: through all of that

1363
00:49:41,748 –> 00:49:43,090
[bruno_caron]: oh

1364
00:49:41,841 –> 00:49:44,586
[michelle_richter]: i know it was a lot and
i know

1365
00:49:44,576 –> 00:49:44,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1366
00:49:44,866 –> 00:49:47,751
[michelle_richter]: you suffered but but i think

1367
00:49:47,726 –> 00:49:48,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1368
00:49:48,092 –> 00:49:49,274
[michelle_richter]: i think my words are true

1369
00:49:49,458 –> 00:49:50,268
[bruno_caron]: oh

1370
00:49:49,534 –> 00:49:50,908
[michelle_richter]: right time scared they might be

1371
00:49:51,318 –> 00:49:51,543
[bruno_caron]: oh

1372
00:49:51,716 –> 00:49:52,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1373
00:49:51,965 –> 00:49:52,911
[michelle_richter]: so i feel that

1374
00:49:53,088 –> 00:49:54,018
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1375
00:49:53,234 –> 00:49:54,261
[michelle_richter]: they should be considered

1376
00:49:54,686 –> 00:49:55,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1377
00:49:55,475 –> 00:49:56,398
[michelle_richter]: thank you for giving me

1378
00:49:56,456 –> 00:49:56,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1379
00:49:56,779 –> 00:49:57,501
[michelle_richter]: the audience to

1380
00:49:57,498 –> 00:49:57,699
[bruno_caron]: oh

1381
00:49:57,541 –> 00:49:58,103
[michelle_richter]: share that with

1382
00:49:59,818 –> 00:50:01,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: well thank you for sharing your thoughts

1383
00:50:01,236 –> 00:50:01,617
[michelle_richter]: esto

1384
00:50:01,538 –> 00:50:01,698
[bruno_caron]: thank

1385
00:50:01,560 –> 00:50:01,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: michelle

1386
00:50:01,778 –> 00:50:01,938
[bruno_caron]: you

1387
00:50:04,966 –> 00:50:05,127
[michelle_richter]: yes

1388
00:50:05,961 –> 00:50:06,082
[bruno_caron]: it’s

1389
00:50:06,086 –> 00:50:07,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1390
00:50:08,624 –> 00:50:08,684
[bruno_caron]: we

1391
00:50:08,685 –> 00:50:08,926
[michelle_richter]: oh

1392
00:50:09,044 –> 00:50:11,326
[bruno_caron]: already knew that there was never a
dull moment with

1393
00:50:11,266 –> 00:50:11,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1394
00:50:11,295 –> 00:50:14,565
[michelle_richter]: oh

1395
00:50:11,386 –> 00:50:11,486
[bruno_caron]: you

1396
00:50:14,600 –> 00:50:16,683
[bruno_caron]: but you prove that once more one
more time

1397
00:50:17,115 –> 00:50:18,348
[michelle_richter]: uh

1398
00:50:17,344 –> 00:50:17,605
[bruno_caron]: uh

1399
00:50:18,035 –> 00:50:18,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: h right

1400
00:50:18,874 –> 00:50:18,915
[michelle_richter]: uh

1401
00:50:19,127 –> 00:50:20,450
[bruno_caron]: i have a feeling we just went

1402
00:50:20,456 –> 00:50:20,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1403
00:50:20,510 –> 00:50:22,894
[bruno_caron]: back to basically college to logic

1404
00:50:22,706 –> 00:50:22,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1405
00:50:22,954 –> 00:50:23,354
[bruno_caron]: classes

1406
00:50:23,415 –> 00:50:25,605
[michelle_richter]: oh

1407
00:50:23,455 –> 00:50:25,618
[bruno_caron]: philosophy cal classes low

1408
00:50:25,445 –> 00:50:25,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1409
00:50:25,738 –> 00:50:26,620
[bruno_caron]: classes math

1410
00:50:26,715 –> 00:50:26,977
[michelle_richter]: oh

1411
00:50:26,720 –> 00:50:29,685
[bruno_caron]: classes accounting classes um

1412
00:50:30,126 –> 00:50:30,247
[michelle_richter]: es

1413
00:50:31,076 –> 00:50:31,583
[mark_chamberlain]: hm

1414
00:50:31,308 –> 00:50:31,388
[bruno_caron]: and

1415
00:50:31,435 –> 00:50:31,803
[michelle_richter]: that’s right

1416
00:50:33,146 –> 00:50:34,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1417
00:50:33,612 –> 00:50:34,012
[bruno_caron]: i always

1418
00:50:34,496 –> 00:50:35,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1419
00:50:34,834 –> 00:50:35,915
[bruno_caron]: i always like the analogy

1420
00:50:35,576 –> 00:50:35,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1421
00:50:35,935 –> 00:50:37,137
[bruno_caron]: between the balance sheet in the end

1422
00:50:37,076 –> 00:50:37,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1423
00:50:37,378 –> 00:50:40,323
[bruno_caron]: statement but you bring it a step
forward

1424
00:50:40,106 –> 00:50:40,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1425
00:50:40,423 –> 00:50:44,550
[bruno_caron]: you know a step further with with
the right hand side of the balance sheet

1426
00:50:44,630 –> 00:50:45,251
[bruno_caron]: the net worth

1427
00:50:45,266 –> 00:50:45,286
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1428
00:50:45,612 –> 00:50:46,233
[bruno_caron]: the cash little

1429
00:50:46,256 –> 00:50:46,419
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1430
00:50:46,273 –> 00:50:46,673
[bruno_caron]: statement

1431
00:50:47,246 –> 00:50:47,488
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1432
00:50:47,915 –> 00:50:53,905
[bruno_caron]: and you know and in such an
eloquent way so i hope the the stake

1433
00:50:53,946 –> 00:50:54,326
[bruno_caron]: holders

1434
00:50:54,729 –> 00:50:54,893
[ramsey_d_smith]: kay

1435
00:50:54,767 –> 00:50:56,690
[bruno_caron]: will make it to the right stake
holders

1436
00:50:56,486 –> 00:50:56,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1437
00:50:57,091 –> 00:50:57,251
[bruno_caron]: and

1438
00:50:57,356 –> 00:50:58,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1439
00:50:58,413 –> 00:50:59,335
[bruno_caron]: we’ll definitely push for that

1440
00:51:00,815 –> 00:51:02,216
[michelle_richter]: thank you thank you

1441
00:51:02,195 –> 00:51:02,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1442
00:51:02,396 –> 00:51:08,683
[michelle_richter]: so much you guys really elevate the
dialogue in our industry i appreciate the work

1443
00:51:08,763 –> 00:51:09,824
[michelle_richter]: that you do so much

1444
00:51:11,336 –> 00:51:13,602
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah all you’re on mute

1445
00:51:13,455 –> 00:51:13,864
[michelle_richter]: oh

1446
00:51:15,509 –> 00:51:15,529
[bruno_caron]: m

1447
00:51:15,836 –> 00:51:16,016
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1448
00:51:16,676 –> 00:51:16,837
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1449
00:51:17,614 –> 00:51:19,938
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m telling it’s two thousand
twenty two is

1450
00:51:19,946 –> 00:51:20,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1451
00:51:20,018 –> 00:51:21,541
[paul_tyler]: almost okay two thousand twenty three

1452
00:51:21,545 –> 00:51:21,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1453
00:51:21,621 –> 00:51:22,262
[paul_tyler]: that will not be

1454
00:51:22,196 –> 00:51:22,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1455
00:51:22,322 –> 00:51:24,666
[paul_tyler]: a word but yeah michell

1456
00:51:24,555 –> 00:51:24,797
[michelle_richter]: uh

1457
00:51:24,846 –> 00:51:24,926
[paul_tyler]: no

1458
00:51:25,343 –> 00:51:25,363
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1459
00:51:25,467 –> 00:51:25,888
[paul_tyler]: no no

1460
00:51:25,865 –> 00:51:25,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1461
00:51:26,008 –> 00:51:26,309
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1462
00:51:26,276 –> 00:51:27,000
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1463
00:51:26,349 –> 00:51:26,389
[paul_tyler]: i

1464
00:51:26,434 –> 00:51:26,475
[michelle_richter]: uh

1465
00:51:26,449 –> 00:51:27,290
[paul_tyler]: think look

1466
00:51:27,785 –> 00:51:27,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1467
00:51:28,292 –> 00:51:28,632
[paul_tyler]: it takes

1468
00:51:28,433 –> 00:51:28,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1469
00:51:28,693 –> 00:51:29,474
[paul_tyler]: a lot to to

1470
00:51:29,541 –> 00:51:29,723
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

1471
00:51:29,634 –> 00:51:30,194
[paul_tyler]: change this

1472
00:51:30,095 –> 00:51:30,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1473
00:51:30,295 –> 00:51:31,716
[paul_tyler]: world and you know your your

1474
00:51:32,546 –> 00:51:32,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1475
00:51:32,997 –> 00:51:33,758
[paul_tyler]: wow to

1476
00:51:34,046 –> 00:51:34,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1477
00:51:34,639 –> 00:51:37,662
[paul_tyler]: provide more retirement security for people especially
the war

1478
00:51:37,646 –> 00:51:37,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1479
00:51:37,762 –> 00:51:38,482
[paul_tyler]: place is

1480
00:51:40,579 –> 00:51:41,539
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah yeah

1481
00:51:42,709 –> 00:51:42,789
[paul_tyler]: it

1482
00:51:43,526 –> 00:51:43,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1483
00:51:44,471 –> 00:51:47,496
[paul_tyler]: requires a lot of different organizations

1484
00:51:47,186 –> 00:51:47,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1485
00:51:47,577 –> 00:51:48,638
[paul_tyler]: and legal structures

1486
00:51:48,206 –> 00:51:48,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1487
00:51:48,739 –> 00:51:50,341
[paul_tyler]: to change to make sense

1488
00:51:51,755 –> 00:51:51,899
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1489
00:51:51,924 –> 00:51:56,912
[paul_tyler]: especially when you think of a typical
company may have employes in all fifty states

1490
00:51:58,014 –> 00:51:59,977
[paul_tyler]: fifty different state laws may apply

1491
00:52:01,565 –> 00:52:01,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1492
00:52:01,969 –> 00:52:02,535
[michelle_richter]: hm

1493
00:52:02,161 –> 00:52:03,563
[paul_tyler]: securities and exchange

1494
00:52:03,239 –> 00:52:04,890
[michelle_richter]: there is no commissions in arica

1495
00:52:04,994 –> 00:52:05,760
[paul_tyler]: uh

1496
00:52:05,216 –> 00:52:05,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1497
00:52:05,815 –> 00:52:07,743
[michelle_richter]: so how are you going to pay
the insurance expert

1498
00:52:07,955 –> 00:52:07,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1499
00:52:08,496 –> 00:52:09,780
[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s this is a challenge

1500
00:52:09,515 –> 00:52:09,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1501
00:52:09,800 –> 00:52:09,860
[paul_tyler]: so

1502
00:52:10,256 –> 00:52:10,461
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1503
00:52:11,216 –> 00:52:11,898
[paul_tyler]: question for you is

1504
00:52:12,185 –> 00:52:12,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1505
00:52:13,284 –> 00:52:17,110
[paul_tyler]: yes we untangle you know the gordian
not here

1506
00:52:17,254 –> 00:52:17,295
[michelle_richter]: uh

1507
00:52:18,392 –> 00:52:23,661
[paul_tyler]: if i’m a typical employe five years
ten years from now how is the experience

1508
00:52:23,741 –> 00:52:26,711
[paul_tyler]: different then it is today

1509
00:52:29,276 –> 00:52:32,441
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s much more likely that
more plans

1510
00:52:32,213 –> 00:52:32,233
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1511
00:52:32,622 –> 00:52:40,615
[michelle_richter]: provide access to a financial professional like
through the employer preveded and financial professional think

1512
00:52:40,695 –> 00:52:40,815
[michelle_richter]: it’s

1513
00:52:41,105 –> 00:52:41,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1514
00:52:41,497 –> 00:52:46,285
[michelle_richter]: that’s already becoming a thing and i
think there’ll be more of that

1515
00:52:46,934 –> 00:52:47,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

1516
00:52:47,707 –> 00:52:52,595
[michelle_richter]: and frankly there a lot of plan
advisors who are interested in entering into wealth

1517
00:52:52,695 –> 00:52:53,937
[michelle_richter]: management domain

1518
00:52:53,876 –> 00:52:53,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1519
00:52:54,098 –> 00:52:55,119
[michelle_richter]: so they’re going to gladly

1520
00:52:54,986 –> 00:52:55,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1521
00:52:55,219 –> 00:52:59,647
[michelle_richter]: provide it and that’s going to be
a threat to my people unless my people

1522
00:53:00,027 –> 00:53:00,268
[michelle_richter]: start

1523
00:53:00,146 –> 00:53:00,449
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1524
00:53:00,648 –> 00:53:01,891
[michelle_richter]: moving towards the d c

1525
00:53:02,015 –> 00:53:02,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1526
00:53:02,111 –> 00:53:06,728
[michelle_richter]: space right and how do they how
to you know have our place set the

1527
00:53:06,768 –> 00:53:07,030
[michelle_richter]: table

1528
00:53:07,354 –> 00:53:07,554
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1529
00:53:07,371 –> 00:53:07,552
[michelle_richter]: right

1530
00:53:08,015 –> 00:53:11,100
[paul_tyler]: well bruno we literally are at the
top of the hour

1531
00:53:12,285 –> 00:53:12,506
[michelle_richter]: uh

1532
00:53:12,703 –> 00:53:12,823
[paul_tyler]: what

1533
00:53:13,414 –> 00:53:13,455
[michelle_richter]: uh

1534
00:53:13,445 –> 00:53:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1535
00:53:14,065 –> 00:53:17,290
[paul_tyler]: last final words observations

1536
00:53:19,259 –> 00:53:19,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

1537
00:53:19,274 –> 00:53:20,264
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1538
00:53:19,860 –> 00:53:20,001
[bruno_caron]: boy

1539
00:53:20,546 –> 00:53:21,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1540
00:53:20,822 –> 00:53:23,627
[bruno_caron]: i have a list of questions i
don’t even go through my notes and some

1541
00:53:23,667 –> 00:53:23,967
[bruno_caron]: of the things

1542
00:53:24,015 –> 00:53:27,034
[michelle_richter]: yea

1543
00:53:24,248 –> 00:53:26,832
[bruno_caron]: i wanted to talk about and i
wrote more

1544
00:53:27,005 –> 00:53:27,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1545
00:53:27,173 –> 00:53:30,097
[bruno_caron]: it’s usually the other way around so
i don’t even know where to start

1546
00:53:29,986 –> 00:53:30,474
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1547
00:53:30,238 –> 00:53:32,321
[bruno_caron]: to even to

1548
00:53:32,295 –> 00:53:32,477
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1549
00:53:32,421 –> 00:53:33,223
[bruno_caron]: even to even

1550
00:53:33,304 –> 00:53:33,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1551
00:53:33,423 –> 00:53:34,966
[bruno_caron]: end this but

1552
00:53:34,995 –> 00:53:35,217
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1553
00:53:35,346 –> 00:53:36,047
[bruno_caron]: i’ll simply say

1554
00:53:36,005 –> 00:53:36,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1555
00:53:36,148 –> 00:53:37,971
[bruno_caron]: thank you and we also

1556
00:53:37,895 –> 00:53:37,916
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1557
00:53:38,071 –> 00:53:38,712
[bruno_caron]: very very

1558
00:53:38,615 –> 00:53:38,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1559
00:53:38,752 –> 00:53:39,373
[bruno_caron]: much appreciate

1560
00:53:39,476 –> 00:53:39,824
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1561
00:53:39,513 –> 00:53:44,682
[bruno_caron]: all all you do for the industry
and such uh passionate and eloquent

1562
00:53:44,595 –> 00:53:44,796
[michelle_richter]: oh

1563
00:53:45,063 –> 00:53:46,906
[bruno_caron]: and rigorous would the

1564
00:53:46,871 –> 00:53:47,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1565
00:53:47,247 –> 00:53:47,347
[bruno_caron]: you

1566
00:53:47,276 –> 00:53:47,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1567
00:53:47,367 –> 00:53:50,874
[bruno_caron]: know kind of a word to you
so thank you

1568
00:53:51,998 –> 00:53:53,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’ll just i’ll just

1569
00:53:53,145 –> 00:53:53,955
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1570
00:53:53,160 –> 00:53:58,428
[ramsey_d_smith]: echo that you know thank you michelle
look you you’re you’re willing to break some

1571
00:53:58,488 –> 00:54:00,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: glass which i think is always important

1572
00:54:01,005 –> 00:54:01,085
[paul_tyler]: ah

1573
00:54:01,512 –> 00:54:02,058
[bruno_caron]: hm

1574
00:54:01,553 –> 00:54:03,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and

1575
00:54:03,285 –> 00:54:04,245
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1576
00:54:04,198 –> 00:54:06,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and i’ll tell the audience like

1577
00:54:06,978 –> 00:54:07,222
[bruno_caron]: oh

1578
00:54:07,503 –> 00:54:12,311
[ramsey_d_smith]: well two things one is a huge
believer i’m a huge believer in the potential

1579
00:54:12,372 –> 00:54:16,759
[ramsey_d_smith]: for implantanuities and in the d the
importance of annuities in the d c space

1580
00:54:16,799 –> 00:54:19,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: to solve the retirement problem and you
know

1581
00:54:20,088 –> 00:54:20,375
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1582
00:54:20,205 –> 00:54:21,046
[ramsey_d_smith]: basically putting my money

1583
00:54:20,958 –> 00:54:21,220
[bruno_caron]: oh

1584
00:54:21,066 –> 00:54:25,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: where my mouth is and you know
as i as i take this journey a

1585
00:54:25,493 –> 00:54:29,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of times when when want to
find out what’s going on one of my

1586
00:54:29,540 –> 00:54:31,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: very first calls is to michelle rector
so

1587
00:54:32,358 –> 00:54:32,559
[bruno_caron]: oh

1588
00:54:32,425 –> 00:54:35,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would say that to anybody in
the audience you would you would do well

1589
00:54:35,931 –> 00:54:39,758
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to reach out to michelle if
you if you want to become

1590
00:54:39,854 –> 00:54:41,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

1591
00:54:40,019 –> 00:54:43,609
[ramsey_d_smith]: more up to speed on on really
what is a very sort of complex space

1592
00:54:43,689 –> 00:54:45,314
[ramsey_d_smith]: so thank you for playing that role
michele

1593
00:54:47,125 –> 00:54:47,246
[michelle_richter]: oh

1594
00:54:47,416 –> 00:54:47,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1595
00:54:47,969 –> 00:54:48,712
[michelle_richter]: thank you so much

1596
00:54:49,119 –> 00:54:50,180
[paul_tyler]: michelle thank you mark

1597
00:54:50,006 –> 00:54:50,936
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1598
00:54:50,281 –> 00:54:50,741
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1599
00:54:51,236 –> 00:54:51,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1600
00:54:51,563 –> 00:54:52,745
[paul_tyler]: hey bruno what i would suggest

1601
00:54:52,766 –> 00:54:52,927
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1602
00:54:52,825 –> 00:54:56,571
[paul_tyler]: doing is let’s put your questions in
the linkedon post once this thing goes alive

1603
00:54:56,730 –> 00:54:56,915
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1604
00:54:56,932 –> 00:54:57,252
[paul_tyler]: michelle

1605
00:54:57,198 –> 00:54:57,622
[bruno_caron]: oh

1606
00:54:57,412 –> 00:54:57,993
[paul_tyler]: let’s let’s conti

1607
00:54:58,106 –> 00:54:58,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1608
00:54:58,414 –> 00:55:00,057
[paul_tyler]: mark let’s continue the discussion there

1609
00:55:00,106 –> 00:55:00,675
[michelle_richter]: absolutely

1610
00:55:00,568 –> 00:55:01,739
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1611
00:55:01,700 –> 00:55:05,646
[paul_tyler]: lot of threads to pull here a
lot of dimensions i think

1612
00:55:05,576 –> 00:55:05,720
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1613
00:55:05,706 –> 00:55:06,207
[paul_tyler]: that we could

1614
00:55:06,605 –> 00:55:06,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1615
00:55:07,021 –> 00:55:07,142
[michelle_richter]: yep

1616
00:55:07,850 –> 00:55:09,993
[paul_tyler]: explore please

1617
00:55:10,446 –> 00:55:14,192
[michelle_richter]: i am an interesting follow on link
down so

1618
00:55:14,155 –> 00:55:17,564
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1619
00:55:14,433 –> 00:55:14,914
[michelle_richter]: consider

1620
00:55:14,716 –> 00:55:15,228
[bruno_caron]: hm

1621
00:55:14,974 –> 00:55:15,054
[michelle_richter]: it

1622
00:55:15,348 –> 00:55:15,671
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1623
00:55:15,716 –> 00:55:15,737
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1624
00:55:16,985 –> 00:55:17,167
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1625
00:55:17,462 –> 00:55:17,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1626
00:55:17,478 –> 00:55:18,500
[michelle_richter]: if any part of this

1627
00:55:18,438 –> 00:55:18,639
[bruno_caron]: oh

1628
00:55:18,605 –> 00:55:18,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1629
00:55:18,620 –> 00:55:19,261
[michelle_richter]: was appealing

1630
00:55:19,286 –> 00:55:19,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1631
00:55:19,321 –> 00:55:19,641
[michelle_richter]: to you

1632
00:55:19,754 –> 00:55:21,014
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1633
00:55:20,403 –> 00:55:20,783
[michelle_richter]: you should

1634
00:55:20,817 –> 00:55:20,838
[bruno_caron]: m

1635
00:55:20,863 –> 00:55:21,324
[michelle_richter]: consider

1636
00:55:20,966 –> 00:55:21,187
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1637
00:55:21,464 –> 00:55:21,864
[paul_tyler]: i agree

1638
00:55:21,726 –> 00:55:22,087
[michelle_richter]: allowing

1639
00:55:21,778 –> 00:55:21,980
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1640
00:55:22,127 –> 00:55:22,489
[michelle_richter]: in linked

1641
00:55:22,405 –> 00:55:22,485
[paul_tyler]: no

1642
00:55:22,529 –> 00:55:22,589
[michelle_richter]: in

1643
00:55:22,626 –> 00:55:23,587
[paul_tyler]: i agree so okay

1644
00:55:23,486 –> 00:55:24,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1645
00:55:23,727 –> 00:55:25,010
[paul_tyler]: continue it there we’ll move this

1646
00:55:24,926 –> 00:55:24,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1647
00:55:25,070 –> 00:55:26,712
[paul_tyler]: from audio to text

1648
00:55:26,516 –> 00:55:26,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1649
00:55:26,833 –> 00:55:27,393
[paul_tyler]: on linked in

1650
00:55:28,128 –> 00:55:28,496
[bruno_caron]: oh

1651
00:55:28,395 –> 00:55:31,420
[paul_tyler]: mark michelle thank you ramsey bruno thank
you michelle

1652
00:55:31,796 –> 00:55:31,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1653
00:55:31,821 –> 00:55:34,265
[paul_tyler]: either sent us a link to what
you just read or send us the text

1654
00:55:34,305 –> 00:55:35,166
[paul_tyler]: and we’ll pop it in the

1655
00:55:35,105 –> 00:55:35,266
[michelle_richter]: yes

1656
00:55:35,227 –> 00:55:35,487
[paul_tyler]: notes

1657
00:55:35,428 –> 00:55:35,650
[michelle_richter]: i will

1658
00:55:36,268 –> 00:55:41,537
[paul_tyler]: uh give us feedback you’re listening thank
you for sticking with us give us feedback

1659
00:55:41,818 –> 00:55:46,486
[paul_tyler]: give us questions give us guess suggestions
we definitely listen and

1660
00:55:47,156 –> 00:55:47,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1661
00:55:47,208 –> 00:55:52,302
[paul_tyler]: gettin next week for another great episode
of that annuity show thanks thanks everybody

1662
00:55:53,738 –> 00:55:54,024
[bruno_caron]: thank you

1663
00:55:53,936 –> 00:55:53,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2
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Are You Selling a Verb or a Noun?

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By David Macchia

Advisor Perspectives welcomes guest contributions. The views presented here do not necessarily represent those of Advisor Perspectives.

Meet a woman driven to change investment regulation and understand why it’s important that she succeeds.

Michelle Richter is a principal at Fiduciary Insurance Services, LLC, and executive director of the Institutional Retirement Income Council, Inc. She is also one of the smartest people I’ve ever met. Richter’s intellect incorporates both dimensions of “smart,” which is why she was placed in charge of a Fortune 100 company’s broker-dealer and RIA.

Richter is driven. Her “cause” is reform of regulation that levels the playing field for insurance through the introduction of a 40 Act-equivalent governing insurance advisement. I fully support this because it will result in better outcomes for investors. It will facilitate commercialization of intellectual property that, today, represents unfulfilled potential. To help the advisory profession understand the regulatory inequality that exists, Richter developed her own lexicon, using the “verbs” and “nouns” construct.

I spoke with Michelle on May 22.

I was surprised and enlightened to learn about the construct of the verbs and nouns. I didn’t know it was an issue. What brought you to the realization that we needed this?

There were a few things, but mainly, it’s because my experience is as a person who believes in creating value as an intellectual property developer, and that’s where I’ve spent my career. I’ve worked on a lot of consumer-liability-minimizing concepts, which were good concepts from good people who had good ideas. It became increasingly evident that those ideas couldn’t be commercialized.

Why is it that all these good ideas from good people cannot reach the market? I kept applying things that I had learned previously to arrive at this point, which relates to guidance that I received when I was working at a Fortune 100 insurance company, serving as both an intellectual property (IP) developer and overseer of that entity’s corporate broker-dealer and RIA. At the time, when we were developing that intellectual property, my IP counsel advised me on something that over the past few years has hit me like a ton of bricks.

It related to my IP counsel’s interpretation of the distinction between how an entity defends a trademark versus how it defends a service mark.

That’s what caused me to realize something important. At that time, 15 years ago, we had developed unique IP, and my counsel advised me that because the IP would not be embedded directly into an issuable container, that it should be service marked rather than trademarked. If you Google “trademark definition,” what you’ll see is the ability to profit from one of two things: issuance or sale. Sale means direct remuneration. If I’m selling you X, I’m getting paid for X. Inherent to the definition of trademark-ability is that you can either issue or distribute intellectual property. If you can’t profit from the product, then that product is a “noun.” If you can’t profit from the product, either by issuing it or by receiving compensation directly for it by selling it, then you have to service-mark the IP, because it is a service.

Was it a planning concept, as opposed to a product?

It was a framework for the embedding of insurance values into an asset allocation architecture, where you can value either a life insurance policy cash value, or you can translate the income value of an annuity into asset-based values. Then the value of assets, or the value of income that can be translated to assets or vice versa, is advised upon within the product. The income or accumulation value within the product can have the attributes of either fixed or variable investments, perhaps multiple asset classes within that framework. But the framework was designed to include insurance values within an asset-allocation architecture.

Would that be more like a business process?

It’s a great question. It can be monetized that way. It can also be monetized within a managed account or managed model services.

You could use the insurance values as part of the managed model values. Plenty of people, 10 years later, were doing exactly that.

When I was working at that organization, we did not permit registered representatives to sell managed accounts services because we viewed them as services, not as accounts. I was advised by my general counsel that RIAs sell “verbs,” whereas agents and brokers sell “nouns.”

With respect to managed account services, I was advised that the value for which the consumer is paying does not derive from the form of custodial account. It derives from the advising that occurs on the account.

Registered reps who are not dually authorized lack an investment adviser license that enables them to sell verbs.

Registered reps lack an investment adviser license. But RIAs, including IARs of an RIA, do.

At that time, the essence of the view communicated to me was that things like managed accounts services were verbs. Following from this logic, I believe that the 40 Act governs verb sales, appearing on the left side of the balance sheet, for two reasons. The first is very easy to explain, which is that the 40 Act is short for “investment adviser’s act.”

Investments are assets. Assets occur on the left side of the balance sheet.

But does anyone disagree with you on that?

There are people who viscerally disagree with me because they have not heard that parlance before. There are also people who feel that the point I am making is very complex, so it is understandable to only a very small audience. They would prefer that I discontinue communicating these points out of fear that I might unintentionally confuse people.

There are also people who feel like I am a nut. That’s a valid viewpoint. But I’ve not yet heard an argument that – from anyone – that says, “No. You’re misunderstanding the world.”

I don’t agree that you’re a “nut.” True passion can come across that way, however.

I concluded that the 40 Act governs verb sales by reviewing how organizations supervise it. They require things like routine, ongoing meetings with the client, because advice can only occur at the end of an advising process. Back in my day, meetings that enabled an advisor to advise had to occur at least annually. Things like that are how we can detect what’s occurring under the 40 Act. Those who have the authority to be an investment adviser are verbs. If we were to look at section 202(a)(11) within the Advisers Act, we’d observe that the words that communicate what an investment adviser does end in “ing.” Because that is the case, we can detect a verb in its present form.

The argument that what financial advisors provide is “advice” (a noun) is logically equivalent to saying that what lawyers provide is “law,” as opposed to “ legal interpreting”.

When we add an “r” to the end of a verb to refer to a person, we are describing the identity of the person who routinely performs an action (a verb). We wouldn’t call a person who once ran across the street a “runner.” We call a person a runner when they routinely run, such that part of their identity can be described by adding an “r” to the end of the verb they routinely perform.

This is another way of saying that an advisor is a person who routinely advises. Professional advising means to give advice in exchange for compensation.

 

The other side of the balance sheet, which is involved with liability management, is where the noun sellers live.

That’s one place where noun sellers live. Registered representatives are also noun sellers. The 40 Act made it so that there could be both noun and verb sales in financial services. I am not a historian, but as a layperson, I have heard it said that prior to the advent of the 40 Act, consumers were experiencing behavioral challenges with respect to financial professional conduct when there was only a noun-sale framework. It’s unfair to my community, those who identify with liability mitigation, that we are all seen as inexpert product shillers, like how used car salespeople are viewed.

There isn’t a verb-sale framework for liability management. The only way that we’ve seen people who have that expertise in insurance to be able to monetize their experience and their viewpoint is through noun sales. We don’t have a 40 Act for the right side of the balance sheet. We do not yet have a regulatory construct for advising on benefits or income under management. That this is messed up.

If there were a regulatory framework that allowed advisement on the insurance types of products, in a practical sense, what would they be advising on?

One good example would be the income base within a variable annuity, or for an FIA with living benefits, or for a SPIA. Any of those constructs that has a value to annuitization, or a value to an income stream that could be indicated from within the product, could support a billing base for an adviser if it were the case that we valued liability management as a verb. Something that could and would occur in the event of such a framework is the creation of inspired-by-tontining services. We do not yet broadly have tontining in the United States. We are behind the rest of the developed world in this development of non-guaranteed longevity risk mitigating products or services because we do not have the required regulatory framework. If we had the correct regulatory framework, we would already have a collective defined contribution tontining product (other than what is available from TIAA). Tontining is non-guaranteed risk-pooling for longevity benefits from which you can’t charge a large fee, because the whole premise is about efficiency. For those organizations that have invested in the noun part, which means issuing and/or distributing authority, successful products occur at the intersection of three things: novel intellectual property, issuing authority, and previous investment in distribution – a whole-saleing architecture.

When either a financial professional or an issuing organization can only profit from the noun in the sphere of liability mitigation in the way I just described, then there’s no value to intellectual property, because the issuing authority has to meet the needs of the previous investment in wholesaling. It would make no sense for an issuing organization that has made this substantial investment in distribution to create, and to promulgate, a noun that’s less profitable than is its incumbent portfolio of nouns. The efficient, low-cost asset managers, like Vanguard and Dimensional, came to exist only after there was a 40 Act, and only in the context of the RIA community. RIAs were not being paid from inside the noun. The service of advising is paid based upon the AUM or based upon notional assets that are advised upon, which is to say, upon which advisory services are delivered by a professional.

RIAs are paid for providing a service to their clients from outside the noun structure. All services are verbs.

Because my words are true, there can be no such thing in my field as valuable intellectual property. I experience offense at that.

Imagine that you had a magic wand, and a new regulatory framework appeared tomorrow for agents selling fixed-index annuities.

There would be no protection whatsoever. No financial institution to stand with them as a co-fiduciary under PTE2020-02 for qualified sales.

Let’s say that it existed. Say an agent working with a family consummated a $250,000 transaction to purchase an FIA. What would the latitude be? What would the compensation scheme look like? What would the responsibilities of advisement be in that scenario?

I believe in sentences. The insurance field has parity with the investment field, meaning that we have access to both noun and verb sales. I want to be clear about the fact that no judgment is occurring upon those of us who earn our compensation from selling nouns.

Let’s imagine it comes to be the case that insurance – liability mitigation orientation – is orchestrated around the advising premise as it differs from the product-sales premise. In this world, the placement of the FIA transaction is not the basis for the remuneration that the insurance liability adviser receives. Another way of thinking about that is what the financial planner receives. The value proposition in this case would be the fact that the adviser, the liability adviser, has worked with the client to understand what their needs are. They may recommend that indexed annuity. They may use today’s regulatory framework and get a commission from that. It could be perfectly appropriate. Alternatively, but never concurrently, as is true in the investment space, in my alternative reality, they could and should be able to charge the client on the value creation of the management of that person’s liabilities, instead of the commission that they could receive from the noun within that advising context. Either, but not both concurrently, should be valid compensation constructs available to financial and insurance professionals.

The broader scope of using that is as a strategic tool to manage a certain set of liabilities that the person or individuals have.

Right. That fits well with the premise of codifying financial planning as a discipline.

In part two of this interview, Richter addresses financial planning, the usage of annuities by RIAs, regulatory implications, and more.

Wealth2k® founder David Macchia is an entrepreneur, author, IP inventor and public speaker whose work involves improving the processes used in retirement income planning. David is the developer of the widely used The Income for Life Model®, and the recently introduced Women And Income®. David has authored many articles on the subjects of retirement income planning and financial communications. He is the author of two books, Constrained Investor®, and Lucky Retiree: How to Create and Keep Your Retirement Income with The Income for Life Model®.

View te full article, here: https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2022/05/30/are-you-selling-a-verb-or-a-noun

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersAre You Selling a Verb or a Noun?
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RIAs Sell Verbs. Agents and Brokers Sell Nouns

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I love the insurance industry. It’s not the puppy love I felt when I leapt headfirst into leading my first insurance business. It’s not the coming-of-age identity struggle I faced as my career progressed and I had to decide whether to focus my energy on operations or strategy. Now, I’m talking mature love. When you love something the way I love the insurance industry, you don’t just care about it in your spare time. You want to see it flourish into the best version of itself. Over and over again.

The insurance industry is in an awkward position. It is plagued by product commoditization, prolonged low-interest rates, regulatory mandates ill-matched with insurance distribution, nontraditional entrants effecting tax and capital arbitrage, and generalized disruption. In advising my insurance company clients about how to innovate our way out of these circumstances, I often empathize with Bill Murray’s character in Groundhog Day. Until we begin to acknowledge, and maybe even embrace, the changes, we will be stuck in an endless loop where insurance is perceived as a commodity and where distribution is expensive (which makes products expensive!). Insurance in this world remains isolated from an increasingly integrated, fintech-driven, fee-conscious, financial advisory community.

State insurance regulation governs the conduct of agents and insurance brokers. It needs to be adapted to govern RIAs as well. Insurance advisement is a premise different from insurance sales, just as there is a big difference between the consumer experience of advice versus sales of securities. While some insurance professionals already consult on or about contracts for consumers, and legally charge a fee for doing so, this model is not mainstream for insurance distribution. Insurance regulation currently occurs at the point of sale and does not contemplate ongoing advice. It should be adapted to do so. Such an adaptation would facilitate a transformation of both insurance, which means liability management, and wealth management as disciplines.

There is no direct corollary to the ’40 Act for insurance. There is no national authority that can define the meaning of the term “insurance advis(o)er.” There is no independent national source upon which financial professionals can rely for accurate annuity conduct, oversight and advice.

We are all receiving a high volume of rapidly changing regulatory guidance. It is not always clear how it applies to the nascent world of “insurance advice.” I empathize with the advisors who tell me that there is not one place they feel they can turn to for definitive guidance about what their responsibilities are for various forms of annuity transactions. To try and assist advisors who feel this way, I have compiled the table below. This is not legal advice, but I hope it gives a starting point for a broader discussion in the industry.

Michelle Richter’s Non-Lawyer Best Guess on Applicability of Various Laws to Different Types of Annuity Transactions. Feedback welcome, especially from financial regulatory lawyers!

Read the rest of the article, here: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/insurance/rias-sell-verbs-agents-and-brokers-sell-nouns 

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Ashley SaundersRIAs Sell Verbs. Agents and Brokers Sell Nouns
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Retirement Plan Participants Need Help With Retirement Income

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By Rebecca Moore

OUTLIVING THEIR ASSETS is cited by individuals as a top fear about retirement in multiple studies throughout the years.

“Eventually people will retire and will need some help with income,” says David Will, senior financial adviser at CAPTRUST in Allentown, Pennsylvania.

From systematic withdrawals from defined contribution plans to annuities that guarantee a certain income stream in retirement, there are a range of options for plan sponsors to help participants create and manage retirement income. Will suggests that, whether considering an in-plan or out-of-plan income solution or not, plan sponsors should proactively change their plan design to allow systematic withdrawals—periodic or installment payments.

“We’re hearing more from plan sponsors about the need for and interest in retirement income solutions,” says Joel Schiffman, head of intermediary distribution at Schroders in New York City. “I think the challenge remains what direction they should go. It seems everyone’s looking but no one is sure of the right method to take.”

In-plan options are getting more attention these days both because of the Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement Act and plan sponsor preference for keeping retirees’ assets in the plan, says Michelle Richter, executive director at the Institutional Retirement Income Council, in New York City. She notes that the preference to retain retiree assets has changed from 10 years ago when most did not want to do so. When recently polled, 70% of plan sponsors indicated they do. “This is one reason plan sponsors are seeing a need to create a retirement tier in their plans,” she says.

Another impetus for retaining retiree assets and offering income solutions for them is the Department of Labor’s point of view on rollovers, according to Richter. “Its establishment of PTE 2020-02 signals it wants to prevent rollovers because participants can access less expensive solutions via the plan, and the DOL said in the last year that retention of assets in-plan is a top priority,” she says.

In-plan retirement income solutions that exist range from guaranteed minimum withdrawal benefits, or GMWBs, which is the most flexible and maintains market participation throughout the investment lifecycle, to qualified longevity annuity contracts, or QLACs, which guarantees a nominal amount of retirement income at a certain age in the future. Richter says the range of in-plan solutions are set by those two limits: a GMWB is the most liquid and offers the greatest level of market participation, and a QLAC is the least liquid and offers the lowest level of market participation.

“The challenge is trying to make sense of the alphabet soup of options,” says Richter. “Plan fiduciaries are going to need to become educated on these solutions and what their responsibilities are.”

To help plan sponsors decide which solution to offer participants, Broadridge Fi360 Solutions, Cannex, and Fiduciary Insurance Services have created a consortium that offers two prongs of activities to enable plan sponsors and advisers to become knowledgeable about the choices, says Richter, who helped to create the consortium. “Education on a monthly basis for at least a year and a half is free to plan sponsors and advisers,” she says.

The second prong is to establish objective metrics around each offering to determine which retirement income solution fits plan participant characteristics, Richter explains. “Whether a workforce has longer tenure employees or shorter tenure employees, skews older or younger, as well as their different saving attributes all matter in the process of evaluation for the appropriate retirement income solution,” she says.

“The objective of the consortium is to relay one appropriate process to evaluate which solution is best for a plan, given its attributes,” Richter adds.

As an example, Richter says one product exists that gives accumulation credits. The longer a participant is in that product, the greater the accrual experience towards the rate at which they can annuitize assets. “The product has a unique design where it is more useful for a plan sponsor that has a workforce that tends to be longer tenure,” she explains.

“Knowing the characteristics of each product will help plan sponsors understand how the product will work for its participants,” she says.

Schiffman notes that since the SECURE Act was passed, there’s been a proliferation of retirement income products, but nothing has really caught on at this point. “There is no silver bullet. I think as products come out and plan sponsors dig deeper, they’ll offer multiple options to plan participants,” he says. “Maybe they’ll offer some combination of guaranteed and not guaranteed solutions. The idea of having insurance doesn’t appeal to everyone, and guarantees sound good, but they are costly and complex.”

Read the Full article, here: https://www.plansponsor.com/in-depth/retirement-plan-participants-need-help-retirement-income/

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersRetirement Plan Participants Need Help With Retirement Income
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Episode 134: Picking Nouns or Verbs In Retirement Planning With Michelle Richter

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Language is powerful. It’s exceptionally powerful in the highly regulated world of retirement planning. Michelle Richter, Principal at Fiduciary Insurance Services joins us today to give us a lesson in regulatory grammar and how recent new rules from the Department of Labor may change them.

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We hope you enjoy the show.

Links mentioned today:

Anatomy of Products

Connect with Michelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-richter/

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/michelle-richter_smaller-firms-may-not-be-ready-for-dol-fiduciary-activity-6894979699173666816-Ymo5

https://fiduciaryinsuranceservices.com/fis-glossary/

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS:

Paul Tyler:

Language is powerful. It’s exceptionally powerful in the highly-regulated world of retirement planning. Michelle Richer, principal at Fiduciary Insurance Services joins us today to give us a lesson in regulatory grammar, and how recent new rules from the Department of Labor may change them. We want to thank our primary sponsor and my employer by day, Nassau Financial Group. We are working harder to be your carrier of choice. We support you with best-in-class service. We seek to keep things simple, and we’ll have your back in years to come. We’re headquartered in Hartford, Connecticut with 19 billion in assets under management, and serve over 400,000 policyholders. We’ve been doing this a long time, 170 years, but remain humble enough to always try to improve. Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter today. We hope you enjoy the show.

Intro:

Welcome to That Annuity Show, the podcast that will make you an expert in explaining annuities to your clients. Give us 30 minutes each week, and we’ll shave hours from your client presentations. Now here’s your host, Paul Tyler.

Paul Tyler:

Hi, this is Paul Tyler, and welcome to another episode of That Annuity Show. Ramsey, how are you?

Ramsey Smith:

Very good. Always glad to be here.

Paul Tyler:

Yeah, lot of talk about today. We’ve had an interesting theme running through some of these conversations around language. Jason, we talked about, how do you frame decisions around when to take social security? We had some great discussion with Cyrus on how to describe protective income, and we’re, I think, in that same vein, we’ve got another great guest, returning guest, to talk about a lot of important topics to our business, but also language and what exactly do labels mean and what labels should we adopt. Ramsey, do you want to do the intro?

Ramsey Smith:

So in terms of policing language, I’ll just say that our next guest, this one goes to 11. Right. So, we’re very pleased to be joined today by my good friend, Michelle Richter. Michelle previously, for many years, had worked for a global actuarial firm, and has broken out on her own in the last year or so, and is doing amazingly well with a whole bunch of new clients. We’re very excited to have her on the show, hear about how her business is developing, but also very importantly, hear more about these various topics, these various linguistic issues that we’re dealing with from a regulatory perspective, and frankly, just from an existential perspective in this industry. So, with that, Michelle. Introduce-

Michelle Richter:

It’s going to go deep, Ramsey, if we’re-

Ramsey Smith:

… Tell us about the name of your new business and how you got it started.

Michelle Richter:

… Sure.

Ramsey Smith:

I mean, it’s a great entrepreneurial journey. You’ve recently taken over a new leadership position in the industry as well, and you are publishing-

Michelle Richter:

Yes.

Ramsey Smith:

… more prolifically than I can ever remember. And it’s been great because you put out a lot of good stuff. So rock and roll.

Michelle Richter:

Thank you. Thank you so much, and it’s oh my goodness, it couldn’t be more of a pleasure to be back here. So thank you so much for having me. And the last time that I was here, I earned one of my favorite clients. Did you [crosstalk 00:03:54] tell you this?

Ramsey Smith:

No. No.

Paul Tyler:

We need these stories. So where-

Ramsey Smith:

Please, tell us.

Michelle Richter:

Yes.

Ramsey Smith:

Go ahead.

Michelle Richter:

Yes. So, I’m now working with RISA profile, who is a previous guest of yours and the relationship started not with the time that I flew to Texas, basically just to meet Wade Pfau, in the middle of the night, that made no impression whatsoever. It was my appearance on That Annuity Show that Alex Maria saw that caused him to reach out and say, “Yeah, we maybe could benefit from working together.”

Paul Tyler:

… Excellent.

Michelle Richter:

But he was right.

Ramsey Smith:

That is fantastic. Look, I think one of the most satisfying things about this show is that… And we always say the guests make the show, Paul and I just are lucky enough to be here. The guests make the-

Paul Tyler:

By the way, I’m just hanging on to Ramsey, that’s all.

Ramsey Smith:

… Not hardly. The guests make the show, but part of it is the guests get to be there… You get to be your best self. And we keep on hearing stories like this, where there’s been a great sort of point of inflection career-wise or otherwise after appearing on the show. So we love these stories and as you develop more from your appearances, share them with us, because we’d love to hear them.

Michelle Richter:

I, on one hand, I hope I get more, but on the other hand, because I’m at capacity not taking new clients until 2024, I kind of hope that doesn’t happen.

Ramsey Smith:

Can I tell you that is such a boss move, right? It’s a boss move. I love this. So Michelle sends a note out. I don’t know whether this is in LinkedIn or elsewhere, and said, “I just want everybody to know I’m booked til 2024. So if you had any designs on working with me, you missed out. See you in 2025.”

Michelle Richter:

It-

Ramsey Smith:

That was such a great move. That was so baller.

Michelle Richter:

… Thank you. Thank you very much. And that’s actually the third time this week I’ve been called that.

Paul Tyler:

All right.

Michelle Richter:

I’m not even kidding.

Ramsey Smith:

Fantastic.

Michelle Richter:

I’m living my best life.

Ramsey Smith:

There you go.

Michelle Richter:

I can’t deny it.

Ramsey Smith:

All right. So for-

Michelle Richter:

Yes, to business.

Ramsey Smith:

… Tell the audience what you’ve been up to.

Michelle Richter:

Yes. So my business is incredibly creatively named Fiduciary Insurance Services, just like any good insurance person would do just name exactly what you’re doing. But to be a little less, not funny, but a little more serious, the way that I saw what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be was fiduciary, which is somebody who takes very seriously their responsibility to their clients and is prepared to represent that they’re the superlative. That they’re the best. So a fiduciary is somebody who’s prepared to represent. I’m giving you my best advice. I’m doing the absolute best and I’m the best in my… Or I’m within the best class of my community. And so insurance because insurance is what I’m obsessed with and services is I do verbs. I sell verbs and I don’t sell nouns.

Ramsey Smith:

So this really at the heart of frankly sort of the way this point of inflection in your career and your life. So we should dig it a little bit deeper. And I told Michelle before the show, I’ve borrowed her nouns versus verbs paradigm for a presentation I’m giving later this week. So thank you for that. And again, full credit to Michelle Richter for that wisdom.

Michelle Richter:

No. I’m so glad it resonated.

Ramsey Smith:

But let’s talk about that. Tell us about the nouns versus verbs paradigm and why you think it’s a way to describe the difference between the traditional fiduciary and what we do on the insurance side.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. And it’s, the amount of information that I’m going to be able to tie back to this premise is going to be pretty incredible. I think when we see at the end of the show. But at this moment, I would expect the audience to be pretty skeptical that it’s going anywhere good. In all seriousness though, insurance is… So I’ve had the great pleasure of having had the opportunity to run a corporate RIA, a multi-billion dollar IA for a fortune 100 insurance company. And I also had the good fortune of being a product developer, or I should say an intellectual property developer, which ultimately was service marked at that time by virtue of the distinction in my mind between nouns and verbs.

Michelle Richter:

And so in running an RIA and in also running an insurance business, I think a person winds up… And a person who sits in the seat of regulatory principle for those entities winds up with a lot of background information on the regulatory frameworks under which either verbs or nouns are compensated. And one incredibly important tenant that I feel doesn’t get communicated to financial professionals well enough is that one does not receive compensation for both at the same time. So one-

Ramsey Smith:

Can you hold on just one second, because I want to make sure the audience understands who sells what? So let’s just start with the basics. And if you said that, I’m sorry I missed it, but-

Michelle Richter:

… No, I didn’t. I didn’t.

Ramsey Smith:

… Okay. Let’s talk about who sells nouns and then who sells verbs.

Michelle Richter:

Agents and brokers.

Ramsey Smith:

Got it. Okay.

Michelle Richter:

RIAs.

Ramsey Smith:

RIAs, sell verbs.

Michelle Richter:

RIAs sell verbs. Correct. And agents and brokers sell nouns. And to the extent that any verbs get provided in the sale of those nouns, they are solely incidental to the noun sale. That’s what the loss is.

Paul Tyler:

Okay. So, sorry. Sorry. Let me go really slow. So I am an insurance agent-

Michelle Richter:

Yeah, let’s go super slow.

Paul Tyler:

… I sell Ramsey and annuity. I’m selling him a noun.

Michelle Richter:

Yes. Yes.

Paul Tyler:

I help Ramsey plan for retirement that possibly could benefit from an annuity. Am I breaking law, because I’m not a licensed planner?

Michelle Richter:

Only if you’re charging for the service.

Paul Tyler:

Okay. So if I’m charging for the verb, it’s a problem. If I’m charging for the noun, I’m okay. Okay.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. That’s right.

Paul Tyler:

I like this.

Michelle Richter:

Right. Because you sell nouns. Sell means receive remuneration and exchange for.

Paul Tyler:

Is that a bad thing?

Michelle Richter:

No, it’s a wonderful thing. I buy nouns all the time. And for me, it’s just really important to know what’s happening right now. Am I buying a noun or am I buying a verb? So when I go to look at a house and I did. The last time I bought a condo, I used a real estate agent and she received a commission for helping me and there was no chance I was going to do all that work on my own, and thank God she was there. Right. But she wouldn’t call herself my real estate advisor. She was my real estate agent. She helped me buy and sell the property, which is a noun.

Ramsey Smith:

Okay. So I think that before long, you’re going to have to turn all this into a schoolhouse rock song.

Paul Tyler:

Yes.

 

Ramsey Smith:

It’s just-

Michelle Richter:

It’s true. But there’s so much obvious… Excuse me, so much confusion. Intentional confusion created around the differentiation between those regulatory frameworks. And that’s why I’m constantly on LinkedIn correcting people for saying things like that.

Paul Tyler:

Sure. Well, and I’m looking at the clock it’s February. February 2021. This was a big month for nouns and verbs in the insurance space. And I don’t know if we get here now or, we Ramsey, we wait a little bit. Because I’m confused. I’m noun and verb confused as are many people in this business.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, so I think, Paul we’re talking about DOL or the Department of Labor’s rollover guidance and how it impacts our community as distinct from how it impacts other pieces of the financial professional ecosystem. And it’s going to be a really challenging time in our space, I think, as we all figure out how it is that we’re supposed to operate under these new expectations. In the past, it was either the DOL took the perspective that a one time transaction, which is what insurance is, because it historically has been.

Michelle Richter:

Now in sales, it’s usually not. Doesn’t meet what DOL calls that five-part test for under ERISA. But since they reinterpreted it and since they’re going to be applying prohibited transaction exemption, 2020-02 and revising an old prohibited transaction exemption, that would have been relied upon by the insurance industry, if they were not revising it, it creates this unbelievably confusing landscape for our industry to be operating in. And we kind of don’t know exactly how so some of these things will shake out as they’re coming before July 1st, as they’re looking into how to enforce this. But it’s going to be impactful to agent business models and in part, because for the fixed noun sellers in our space, there is no regulatory overseer that can serve as financial institution for them.

Ramsey Smith:

… So. All right. Let’s just walk it back here. Right?

Michelle Richter:

Stop. Yeah. Okay.

Ramsey Smith:

So let’s go the life of an agent. Let’s take an agent. Let’s talk about what that means. So I’m an agent, I go out and I have clients, I’m selling my nouns. I come across a client, that’s got money and I want to do a rollover. Let’s go specifically what the day to day experiences for a noun seller, aka an agent.

Paul Tyler:

Right. And it’s one noun versus another noun. If the noun is a qualified noun.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. So if you’re selling qualified nouns now, if you want to qualify for prohibited transaction exemption, 2020-02, you need to have a financial institution that oversees your conduct and that can sign with you, that you are acting in a fiduciary capacity. That’s really new for our world. And it does not fit with demutualization. So meaning it does not fit with not career agents, because the insurance companies will not serve as co-fiduciary. So, because that is how it is panning out, and the fact that the industry had intended instead of allowing agents to use 2020-02 with the insurer as co-fiduciary, they instead indicated that they would use PT8424, which is an old exemption. But labor’s now modifying that. The material difference between those laws or those abilities to roll that money over is 2020-02 requires you to be a fiduciary. Whereas, 8424 just requires disclosure of compensation that it not be unreasonable. And you’re not claiming to be a fiduciary.

Paul Tyler:

Okay. One piece of trivia PTE84, why was it named 84 Ramsey? Do you know?

Ramsey:

I don’t know. The numbers are so different.

Paul Tyler:

It was-

Ramsey:

I don’t know why they’d be so different.

Paul Tyler:

… so creative.

Ramsey:

Do tell.

Paul Tyler:

It was written in 1984. That’s it.

Ramsey:

Right. Was the other one written in 1922?

Paul Tyler:

No.

Ramsey Smith:

So you lost me, man.

 

Paul Tyler:

No, PTE20, 2020. It was written in 2020.

Ramsey Smith:

Oh 2020. Oh, fair enough. Got it. Yeah. We’re in a new century.

Paul Tyler:

Right. Just to help it-

Ramsey Smith:

Go figure.

Paul Tyler:

… It kind of helps you think. Well, it actually, a little bit of trivia actually helps because all the insurance companies are relying on this definition 81984 to protect us right now.

Michelle Richter:

Right. And think about it, it hasn’t been revised since then, because nobody needed to rely upon it, because nobody was tripping up the five-part test in how it was being interpreted before. But now that it’s being interpreted differently, now the industry is needing to rely on one of those PTs. And in the case of an independent agent there isn’t an overseeing. They would oftentimes work with an IMO or FMO to help with marketing, but those organizations aren’t responsible for regulatory oversight. So that places them in an awkward position because they’re going to need to attest for themselves that they have satisfied 81984.

Ramsey Smith:

Well, so let’s talk about that. What should they do? Should they go out and find a financial institution? So the insurance companies won’t help them. The IMOs at this point, aren’t set up to do it. Although, I know that in the previous iteration with the DOL there were some IMOs that were thinking about adding that capacity. But that’s still developing it best, right?

Michelle Richter:

Yes. Developing at best. I hope. I hope it develops.

Ramsey Smith:

Okay. But, what can they do now? Do they have to sit on the sidelines or what can they do?

Michelle Richter:

I think we’re going to find out. I think that’s what’s under negotiation at the moment.

Ramsey Smith:

[crosstalk 00:18:37].

 

Michelle Richter:

Right. So-

 

Paul Tyler:

Yeah. I’ll give you late-breaking, real-time picture. We had a number of our distributors for meeting and talked exactly about this topic. And question from one of our distributors, well, wait a second, if our agent doesn’t… If the agent says they did this and got the client and they have the records, but they don’t, who’s liable here? Michelle, is there a difference between a fiduciary with capital F or a small F in this world?

Michelle Richter:

… So if they’re relying on 8424, then they’re not a fiduciary. I do not know how they’re going to modify the language in 8424, yet. But my hope is that it’s tight. But I think there will be material negotiation that’ll occur around this. I think what is likely at the moment is that there will be an expectation of best interests being met. I don’t think that 8424 is going to go as far as fiduciary or that somebody going to have to rep for that. 2020-02 does do that, but the industry isn’t looking to use it. And the industry is looking to modify 8424, and I think it will come shy of that representation. But it’s still being negotiated.

Paul Tyler:

Well, as an aside, there actually, a lawsuit was filed in Texas to challenge this. And Ramsey, I actually got an inbound, unsolicited inbound of the people wanting to come on our show and talk about their lawsuit. So I don’t know, Michelle, what do you think? Would that-

Michelle Richter:

Tell me more. What lawsuit? What happened?

Paul Tyler:

… There’s a lawsuit challenging this, the DOL rule filed in Texas.

Michelle Richter:

Oh. Oh. Oh, I know what you’re talking about.

Paul Tyler:

Filed in Texas by an industry group. I would suspect there’ll be more. We’ll see more in an effort to better define what does this mean. Verb versus noun. Crazy. Crazy world.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. Well, yes, I think there’s going to be another round of clarifications before anything goes into effect for… As relates to the July 1st deadline. Not as relates obviously to the February 1st deadline. I expect we’re going to see more clarification.

Ramsey Smith:

So first of all, Paul, sure. Why not? We should have them on if they have something to say.

Paul Tyler:

Right. Right.

Ramsey Smith:

But now, so now Michelle, the next piece of this, you developed some very sort of strong opinions and you, right? But no-

Michelle Richter:

Yes.

Ramsey Smith:

…. and you share them and you address some pretty important organizations pretty directly, like FINRA, the SEC. So now, most people do that with some trepidation. You are-

Michelle Richter:

That’s true.

Ramsey Smith:

… You are fearless. And I’m curious have they-

Michelle Richter:

That’s because I’m cracked.

Ramsey Smith:

… Good on you. I mean, so have you ever gotten any response from them yet? Do you expect at some point you might hear-

Michelle Richter:

Not yet.

Paul Tyler:

Interesting.

Michelle Richter:

I hope so, because I’m not tagging them to be silly or to annoy them. I’m tagging them on points that I think are really important for them to consider. And in particular as it relates to the identities of people who distribute insurance, I think there’s insufficient guidance given as it relates to those intersections between how one interacts in an insurance community relative to a wealth managing community.

Ramsey Smith:

… Okay. You gave a good segue there, because we talked about this. We talked about in a world where we all spend a lot of time thinking about identity, sometimes it cuts both ways. Sometimes it’s good. Sometimes, it’s great to some issues obviously in the broader society. But in here, in this space, you came to a really interesting realization about the business you wanted to build and this distinction between services and things. And-

Michelle Richter:

That’s right.

Ramsey Smith:

… And the place, the very unique place you wanted to carve out. So, so tell us about that discovery process and then how you’ve implemented it into a business.

Michelle Richter:

Okay. This is going deep guys. And it’s going to be real fun.

Ramsey Smith:

That’s how we roll.

Michelle Richter:

Okay. All right. So, I fashion myself an intellectual property developer. Okay. That’s how I’ve spent a material portion of my career doing that. Okay. So with intellectual property, you obviously need to have protections for it so that other people don’t copy your work and that you have enough time to build it into a business. So one thing that’s become very apparent to me over the… slowly, but then suddenly… over the last 20 years of developing intellectual property is this realization that the way in which one does business, when one sells verbs is really different from the way that one does business, when one sells nouns. And since the insurance world where I have grown up and spent my whole career and where I am obsessed is where it’s at as an industry is that we do not have a verb based lens to look at insurance through.

Michelle Richter:

Insurance, there’s no 40 Act corollary in the insurance space. Some adaptations around the premise that there are advised assets inside of annuities, for example, on which fees can be charged, creates a little bit of an intersection between those communities. But it’s very ill defined how one could experience insurance through a verb based lens. So the realization that I had, as I said, over a 20 year period of developing IPs, is that the really unique IP developers that have made a low cost investing environment possible we’re able to do so because of the verb based compensation system. So if an advisor, and by advisor I mean person acting in an advice capacity, and by which that means verb provider, so a person providing verbs can weave together, weaves a verb, the products, products are nouns.

Michelle Richter:

So think Vanguard or think Dimensional for people who manage assets on the podcast. These are entities that are really well regarded for being able to provide lower cost, intelligent product noun solutions. They’re popular in the RIA community because the RIA earns money for delivering verbs. There can never come to be a Vanguard or Dimensional in my community because my community only has available to it a noun based compensation system. And because that’s true… Okay. So because my community can only profit from noun sales, the only way in which we develop intellectual property is as nouns. But because products sell in insurance only if there has previously been an investment in both manufacturing and in distribution, it can never be the case that intellectual property on its own can be valuable in insurance.

Michelle Richter:

And because it is so expensive to invest in that issuing authority and distribution infrastructure, there will never be an incentive for a noun based infrastructure to use low cost intellectual property. So because all of these things are true and because my community doesn’t have a verb based understanding, there can be no value to intellectual property in my community, which means there’s no value to me in my community. That’s where I reached the end of the rainbow, if you will.

Ramsey Smith:

This is like the Pythagorean theorem of like… When you first showed it to me I thought this, it reads like a geometric proof.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. Well, it also is a geometric proof. Yeah.

Ramsey Smith:

Okay. There it is.

Michelle Richter:

I did literally QED three dots and a triangle, kind of pull it out. But yeah, back into that logically, like when you have that awareness of your own experience and believe me, it motivates you to the point where you want to just blow up the world or make another world. Another world in which there exists a verb based architecture for my industry.

Ramsey Smith:

Okay.

Paul Tyler:

You know-

Ramsey Smith:

Go ahead, Paul.

Paul Tyler:

… Okay. Well, a lot of layers here, Ramsey. I’m going to tick the first one off, which there’s just kind of a reflection, Michelle. At a prior company, we sold a lot of our nouns through a big association. You know this association because, one of your prior companies sold the very same powerful one. And they actually, their compensation was literally intellectual property charge. Which made no sense because there wasn’t any intellectual… It was truly, they were the verb. They were creating this collection and this community and continually keeping a cohesive community, but their compensation structure was based on something that wasn’t quite descriptive. I’m not saying inaccurate, but it was not descriptive what they were doing.

 

Michelle Richter:

That’s obviously a different regulatory thing. So it would, to be able to be compensated that way and not to be overseen as a noun seller, I imagine was beneficial for them.

Paul Tyler:

Now, are you arguing that there’s… What if I’m a distributor and I’ve come to a carrier and I’ve brought them a wonderful product idea, and I want to get compensated based on an idea brought to them, is that not intellectual property?

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. So they can charge asset based fees on that concept. That concept will be valuable to a manufacturer if and only if it illustrates better than does the incumbent product portfolio that the carrier already has.

Paul Tyler:

It’s Ramsey.

Ramsey Smith:

Paul, you’re letting that sink in. I can tell.

Paul Tyler:

Look labels important. I think back to, again, back to some other companies. I mean, we had whole committees, Ramsey, deciding what noun was appropriate, would we allow our agents to be called. This noun was a suspect noun. This noun is a legitimate noun, or adjective, I guess.

Ramsey Smith:

OR versus ER?

Paul Tyler:

Yes. Certified retirement.

Michelle Richter:

Who has not sat through a two hour long compliance versus distribution dispute on the spelling of that word? Raise your hand if you haven’t.

Paul Tyler:

But this is an important topic. And you’re right, we’re right, framing language over the next six months will be critical for a lot of industries. And Ramsey, great question, who’s liable. You say the IMOs are not really… A lot of the distributors are not set up for… Have giant compliance arm. But they also don’t have, Michelle, one of the other advantages of a noun based company is it has deep pockets so that you have one agent who goes awry or a client who’s just ridiculous in demands or feels upset later. You got money to pull from. From the future. Whereas your distributor, your bank account probably isn’t that big.

Michelle Richter:

100%. So that’s why somebody has to be out there defending the individual distributors because they don’t have… They’re not able to rely a financial institution that oversees them and that helps them to comply with the regulations as they keep getting amended. And frankly, the whole regulatory structure that exists in the insurance space evolved from the fact that insurance companies were mutual at the time when the regulations were established. And because that was true, distribution coexisted with manufacturing. And because that was true, it was important for the insurance companies to train their agents really effectively to understand their products, to explain them well. And all of this is all occurring because of demutualization. Because distribution no longer is controlled by the same entity that issues products. And that creates this disjointed regulatory experience where the individual financial professional, instead of the, as to your point, the giant issuing company, the financial professional is the person who needs people like you guys to be out there communicating with them about what responsibilities really are.

Ramsey Smith:

This is like a philosophy class, like alienation. I feel like I’m back on campus, Paul.

Paul Tyler:

Yes.

Ramsey Smith:

So-

Paul Tyler:

Yeah. I’ll share you my notes after the show, if you trade me yours.

Michelle Richter:

There’s no scale in this class. Everybody’s getting-

Ramsey Smith:

So let’s-

Michelle Richter:

Mark the [crosstalk 00:33:51].

Ramsey Smith:

… There’s two things. One is like, okay demutualization process happened at some point in the history and what are all the sort of knock on effects that were unexpected that happened? That’s a whole discussion. And then there’s-

 

Michelle Richter:

It is.

Ramsey Smith:

… Then there’s a discussion that you having come to this conclusion said, “I’m going to build my own business and I’m going to build one that is relevant in this sort of bizarre construct.” So tell-

Michelle Richter:

Right. Exactly right.

Ramsey Smith:

… So tell-

Michelle Richter:

In my bizarro world where-

Ramsey Smith:

… I didn’t say you were bizarre. I said that-

Michelle Richter:

… No. No, you didn’t. I did.

Ramsey Smith:

… I said it was the situation, and you sort of identified with sort of the unique, and so-

Michelle Richter:

So from my perspective, what I want to do is create meaning behind the term insurance advisor. I view myself as a person who advises institutions and academics and life insurance companies about insurance. But because there’s no meaning to this term yet, I’m kind of going out there trying to claim it. I certainly would prefer somebody else took care of it. But to the extent that it-

Ramsey Smith:

… It’s yours. Keep it.

Michelle Richter:

… But to the extent that that’s not occurring, then that’s important to me to make sure that it occurs, because I do not want to leave the next generation that follows me in the circumstance that my generation was in where there cannot be such a thing as valuable intellectual property in their field. That’s lame.

Ramsey Smith:

All right.

Michelle Richter:

So insurance advisor-

Ramsey Smith:

That’s the sound bite right there.

Paul Tyler:

Yeah.

Ramsey Smith:

We’ve gone through, just this tremendous sort of vocabulary journey and we boiled it down to this is lame.

Michelle Richter:

… Right. Well, it is. But it is, because I mean, I’ve seen so many good product ideas over the years and people not be able to launch them and not know why. Well, here’s the why. Read NCHA, it’s a noun based world and-

Ramsey Smith:

Told you, Paul.

Michelle Richter:

… So there should be a verb based world for my people, because I have a tribe that’s valuable over here and we provide services that are really important to our communities, so you know.

Paul Tyler:

Maybe we could get a gerund that would sort of fit in between. What do you think, Ramsey? Gerund.

Ramsey Smith:

Yeah. I get it. Yeah.

Paul Tyler:

Insurance gerund.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah, exactly. I mean-

Ramsey Smith:

What would it be?

 

 

Michelle Richter:

… But a gerund is a verb. But it’s really, I know that I sound like maniac, but I’m telling you guys the truth. The end result of there being no over-based infrastructure, no over-based regulatory environment is that there are no dimensionals in the insurance base and there can’t ever-

Ramsey Smith:

So here’s another controversial question. So, we talked about how in insurance, there’re state regulators and obviously in securities you’ve got FINRA, SEC, so who is the boss of you right now? In this new-

Michelle Richter:

Nobody.

Ramsey Smith:

… Okay. So, but say that one more time.

Michelle Richter:

Me. Me, I’m the boss of me. My boss is a maniac. She’s a complete lunatic. No, that’s just the thing it’s-

Ramsey Smith:

From a regulatory perspective, I mean.

Michelle Richter:

… I have no regulatory overseer and that’s troublesome. Because we’ve all seen the effects of my conduct. But think about that on LinkedIn, having the complete freedom to just say that which is true. It’s been pretty amazing. But at the same time, I’m a rules follower I’m a rules explainer. I’m maybe a little bit at the edges of rules. Let’s not say breaker, but bender. I jaywalk routinely. And in any case-

Ramsey Smith:

You live in New York, yeah.

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So any case. But the point is, as I was beginning on my journey to figure out what do I want to do with my life and career, and I was trying to figure out under what regulatory framework does one monetize intellectual property, or can one, and there totally is not one. I have a 65, I formed an RIA. I have not yet used that RIA. I haven’t done any business out of it. I provide strategic consulting on an hourly basis and nobody oversees that. And that’s troublesome. There should be a regulator.

Ramsey Smith:

Is there some regulator that thinks they oversee that? The part of it, isn’t just-

Michelle Richter:

No.

Ramsey Smith:

… Sometimes, if it’s enough, if they… Somebody, if an entity or somebody in the government feels that they oversee it, then they can obviously… They have the power to make that happen. Do you think that that’s a… Anybody like that exist thus far?

Michelle Richter:

I would like for that to happen, but no.

Ramsey Smith:

That’s interesting. So You want that, that would be-

Michelle Richter:

Yeah, I do.

Ramsey Smith:

You think it’s a problem that there isn’t somebody that’s thinking about this from a regular bucket.

Michelle Richter:

Yes.

Ramsey Smith:

That’s a very… Because in one sense you’re breaking glass and on the other sense, you’re like, “Okay, but there needs to be somebody. There needs to be a referee here.”

Michelle Richter:

Yeah. Can’t be codified. It can’t be repeated until there’re eyes on it and process to make it verb. You know what I mean?

Paul Tyler:

Okay.

Ramsey Smith:

All right. Well then-

Michelle Richter:

Then it’s not repeatable without that.

Paul Tyler:

Working-

Ramsey Smith:

… Go ahead.

Paul Tyler:

… No. Go.

Michelle Richter:

Then it’s not repeatable without that.

Paul Tyler:

Go ahead. No go, Ramsey.

Ramsey Smith:

We’re at the top of the hour. So I warned, Michelle before we started this, because Michelle who’s always sort of hyper prepared, sent us a whole I’ll call it a treatise because this has been a philosophical conversation. So we had plenty of things to talk about and we said that there’s way more than we can ever cover today. I think, we’ve done… actually, we’ve done a great job covering a lot of things. This has been a great conversation. And, Michelle, this is your third tour here, and you’ll certainly-

Michelle Richter:

That’s right.

Ramsey Smith:

… We’ll certainly have you back again. Have back again this year.

Michelle Richter:

Well, thank you guys.

Paul Tyler:

Absolutely.

Ramsey Smith:

This has been great.

Paul Tyler:

Yeah. Michelle, hey, thanks so much.

Michelle Richter:

Thank you.

Paul Tyler:

I know your solidly booked. So if you’re clients listening to show, don’t call her. Okay. Don’t. But if somebody wanted to find out… Okay, first of all, you’re on LinkedIn. Great. I recommend connecting or following you. Where else? What? Your website. How else should we find you?

Michelle Richter:

Yes. I have a website, fiduciaryinsuranceservices.com. And I also serve as executive director for the Institutional Retirement Income Council, which is a nonprofit think tank in the defined contribution space. And that website is an absolute treasure trove of information for those people who do serve an in-plant community. That’s IRIcouncil.org.

Paul Tyler:

Excellent. Michelle, thanks so much. Ramsey, it was a pleasure and-

Michelle Richter:

A lot of fun.

Paul Tyler:

… as always, listen, we appreciate all our listeners, and of course our guests. But keep ideas coming. People we should pull on and-

Ramsey:

But give us victory stories.

Paul Tyler:

… Yes.

Ramsey Smith:

You came on the show and it, somehow it led to a victory in your life or career. Share that with us. It’s super important.

Paul Tyler:

Yeah. Please. Please. Okay, terrific. Hey, thanks so much and tune in again next week-

Michelle Richter:

Thank you guys.

Paul Tyler:

… for another episode of That Annuity Show.

Outro:

Thanks for listening. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please rate and recommend us on iTunes, Stitcher, Overcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also get more information at thatannuityshow.com.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 134: Picking Nouns or Verbs In Retirement Planning With Michelle Richter
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Episode 102: Readying RIAs to Effectively Offer Annuities (And Many Other Topics) With Michelle Richter

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Michelle Richter, Principal at Fiduciary Insurance Services, joins us again to cover a wide variety of important industry topics. One of many that jumped out in today’s conversation was the need for structural change in how the annuity industry services RIAs in the future. Some of these involve technology, other products, and probably not surprisingly, how we better provide training about how to use insurance in financial plans. However, who will pay for training and how will it be delivered? Join us today for these topics and more.
Also, keep up with news from our guests and sign up for our email list at thatannuityshow.com.

Useful URLs for Retirement Plan Advisers from IRIC include:

https://iricouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IRIC-DC-Income-Product-Program-Compilation-v6.3.21.pdf 
https://iricouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Evaluation-Scorecard-for-Retirement-Income-Products.pdf
https://iricouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/plan-sponsor-guide-to-retirement-income-decision-beleifs-ii.pdf
https://iricouncil.org/evaluation-tools/#1520343622078-7c3a5514-60bf
https://iricouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Debunking_Portability_Myths.pdf

Thank you to our show sponsor, The Index Standard!

Fixed Index Annuities and RILAs are getting more complex and technical just when fiduciary rules are getting stricter. How do you choose the right index and allocate to them?

The Index Standard is your answer. They are an independent provider ratings and forecasts on all indices and ETFs used in the US insurance space. Their process is systematic and unbiased, identifying robust and well-designed indices.

We all know finance is complex and The Index Standard has a clear ratings system and uses approachable language to demystify this complexity. Visit theindexstandard.com for more information.

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 102: Readying RIAs to Effectively Offer Annuities (And Many Other Topics) With Michelle Richter
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Episode 48: How Will The Annuity Landscape Change This Year With Michelle Richter

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Michelle Richter, Managing Director of Retirement Enhancement Solutions at Milliman, joins us to share her insight on changes in product, distribution, and the consumer market.

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Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nicholas BreniaEpisode 48: How Will The Annuity Landscape Change This Year With Michelle Richter
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