Retirement

Episode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2

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The SECURE Act reinvigorated interest in expanding the market for in-plan annuities. However, we need to make many more changes to really drive adoption. In part one of a two part series, Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain of the newly renamed firm, Annuity Research & Consulting, share their roadmap for future success.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-richter/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-chamberlain-33349a14/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show and we’ve

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[paul_tyler]: got our great set up hosts here

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: bruno welcome

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[bruno_caron]: thank

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[bruno_caron]: you

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[paul_tyler]: from canada ramsey

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[paul_tyler]: from atlanta

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[ramsey_d_smith]: always great to be here

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[paul_tyler]: tis and where are you from where
are you

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i am in hartford connecticut today good
morning

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[paul_tyler]: thanks broadcasting from the basement i know

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[bruno_caron]: uh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: basement

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[paul_tyler]: which i’ve

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: boat building

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[bruno_caron]: h

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[paul_tyler]: spacemen of the boat bill and i’m
obviously in just outside new york

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: we have great

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeh

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[paul_tyler]: guests okay in fact record set appearances
by none other and michelle

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: rector co founder founder co founder

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: of nuity research and consultant with her
co founder mark chamberlain michelle and mark welcome

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank

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[michelle_richter]: you

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[mark_chamberlain]: you

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[michelle_richter]: so much

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: for having us

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[paul_tyler]: okay so before we dive

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[michelle_richter]: very exciting

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[paul_tyler]: in

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[michelle_richter]: to be here

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[paul_tyler]: i know you you have a message
i know which will want to get to

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[paul_tyler]: before we do that

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: okay you change your name a

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[mark_chamberlain]: m

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[paul_tyler]: little bit with your firm tell us
what are you doing what’s just maybe a

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[paul_tyler]: thumbnail sketch

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: of your company you’re in your what
you re

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[michelle_richter]: sure

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[paul_tyler]: doing for a lot of good companies

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: we’re doing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: annuity research and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: m so we got really clever with
the name and we

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[mark_chamberlain]: yah

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[michelle_richter]: called it annuity research

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h m

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[michelle_richter]: but like like lame insurance people would

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[michelle_richter]: but but in all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: seriousness you know what what we’re up
to is an intention to bridge the communities

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[michelle_richter]: between plan advisors and between those who
are expert in the insurance space so we

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[michelle_richter]: very much have an intention of education

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: of advocacy and of providing information for
plan

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: advisors to then be able to safely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: recommend solutions that include ensure and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: solutions in plan

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: um and i’d love to let mark
kind of tag

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: along there to add to that thought
about our corporate vision

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[mark_chamberlain]: sure well good morning pleasure to be
with you and i’ve watched many episodes of

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[mark_chamberlain]: this

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: show by the way so i’ve enjoyed

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[paul_tyler]: oh thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: welcome

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank you i got started down this
path in two thousand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: alking with paul just a bit before
the show at the time i had just

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[mark_chamberlain]: joined the ice sirs business before the
launch and

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: went down to san

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: diego to meet with

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: a company called frontier analytics which is
a software

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[mark_chamberlain]: company

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: back then it was providing the asset
class optimization technology for a lot of the

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[mark_chamberlain]: broker dealer you know investment advisory platform

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[michelle_richter]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: and at the time

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: index funds in general weren’t well integrated
into those systems they were primarily selling active

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[mark_chamberlain]: mutual funds and separate account managers and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: e

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: ts weren’t integrated at all so that
was the challenge back then in two thousand

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[mark_chamberlain]: and on the board of that company
was harry marko wits and so i got

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[mark_chamberlain]: to meet him that day and was
invited back for a second meeting and the

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[mark_chamberlain]: topic that day was how do we
integrate annuities and mortality pooling into an acid

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[mark_chamberlain]: application optimization that was two thousand

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[mark_chamberlain]: so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: we are in twenty twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: two in the industry still has not
figured that out and so when black rod

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[mark_chamberlain]: bought the ice sears business in in
well bought all of b in two thus

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[mark_chamberlain]: and nine and a lot of us
who had started the company or started the

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[mark_chamberlain]: business rather

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: parishooted out at that point i was
looking for a similar challenge for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: you know how do we

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: help the industry move forward and what’s
the next place to do that and so

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[mark_chamberlain]: i got started on trying to solve
the innuitization puzzle back in two thousand and

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[mark_chamberlain]: ten

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[mark_chamberlain]: and

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[paul_tyler]: yea

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[mark_chamberlain]: michelle recruited me

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: this past summer we were both presenting
at

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: a at a conference for the new
board it’s the new center for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: board certified feduciaries which is as something
that was begun by a don trone who

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[mark_chamberlain]: originally founded f i three sixty and
the class was on integrating annuities into de

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[mark_chamberlain]: plants and shell and i both taught
classes at that at that at that particular

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: three day conference and she recruited me
to come help her try to try to

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[mark_chamberlain]: start a company to solve the problem

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: so that’s that’s the longer history of
how we got together

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know it’s fascinating this business how
many amazing people touch and and drive so

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[paul_tyler]: many different career paths so yeah mark
wits wow

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[michelle_richter]: ye

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[paul_tyler]: how cool is that so michelle tell
don’t be bashful i know you are

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: just

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[michelle_richter]: complete

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: you are

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[paul_tyler]: not never

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: said no one especially

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[paul_tyler]: no one on linked in ever

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: said that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[paul_tyler]: so all right

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: how should we be looking at the
future of annuities okay future anuities in plan

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[paul_tyler]: futures of annuity you tell

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[michelle_richter]: a

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[paul_tyler]: us

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah so so from from my point
of view what what i’m seeing you know

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[michelle_richter]: uh

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: with part of my time represent the
institutional

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: retirement income council which is think a
non profit think tank operating in the defined

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[michelle_richter]: contribution space

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: and my opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[michelle_richter]: that i express here today are necessarily
my own and not for say comforting with

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[michelle_richter]: those of either the iris or any
of its member companies okay but so in

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[michelle_richter]: this position i hear a lot about
what going on in space and and i

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[michelle_richter]: also facilitate consortion of retirement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: income providers that has been established through

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: broad ridge f three sixty um so
so i have the opportunity to hear a

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[michelle_richter]: lot of what’s going on behind the
scenes as the industry really prepares for what

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[michelle_richter]: is expected to be massive movement towards
annuities and plan some of the attributes that

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[michelle_richter]: i see as necessary right now for
this field to take off include um annuities

218
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[michelle_richter]: need to be included within what in
the qualify or in the d c d

219
00:06:59,189 –> 00:07:01,813
[michelle_richter]: c being defined contribution by the way
space

220
00:07:02,216 –> 00:07:02,297
[paul_tyler]: ah

221
00:07:02,995 –> 00:07:10,427
[michelle_richter]: you know we we need for annuities
to be incorporated into qualified default investment alternatives

222
00:07:10,908 –> 00:07:14,354
[michelle_richter]: for them with offdout provisions of course
for them to

223
00:07:14,405 –> 00:07:14,426
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

224
00:07:14,434 –> 00:07:16,542
[michelle_richter]: have real main stream success

225
00:07:17,735 –> 00:07:17,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

226
00:07:17,946 –> 00:07:21,792
[michelle_richter]: we need data for mat standardization

227
00:07:20,666 –> 00:07:20,686
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

228
00:07:22,113 –> 00:07:23,475
[michelle_richter]: to be undertaken

229
00:07:23,165 –> 00:07:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

230
00:07:24,116 –> 00:07:25,198
[michelle_richter]: by an industry

231
00:07:25,218 –> 00:07:25,519
[bruno_caron]: oh

232
00:07:25,398 –> 00:07:27,021
[michelle_richter]: organization like

233
00:07:26,947 –> 00:07:27,108
[bruno_caron]: yeah

234
00:07:27,201 –> 00:07:34,794
[michelle_richter]: spark for example it is the industry
organization for record keepers and it is in

235
00:07:34,914 –> 00:07:36,757
[michelle_richter]: conversation with libra

236
00:07:37,810 –> 00:07:37,954
[bruno_caron]: yeah

237
00:07:38,039 –> 00:07:38,420
[michelle_richter]: about

238
00:07:38,186 –> 00:07:38,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

239
00:07:38,700 –> 00:07:45,852
[michelle_richter]: how to accomplish some of those jectives
where because historically you know record keepers didn’t

240
00:07:45,972 –> 00:07:50,740
[michelle_richter]: talk to annuity companies and annuity companies
didn’t talk to record keepers so

241
00:07:50,696 –> 00:07:52,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

242
00:07:50,861 –> 00:07:59,735
[michelle_richter]: that to the data connactivitythat is necessary
for reporting annuity elements it benefit elements to

243
00:07:59,876 –> 00:08:03,061
[michelle_richter]: the end participant like that infrastructure

244
00:08:02,816 –> 00:08:03,565
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

245
00:08:03,261 –> 00:08:10,273
[michelle_richter]: isn’t there yet so some of that
is needs to be addressed for there to

246
00:08:10,333 –> 00:08:14,139
[michelle_richter]: be a wide scale and then lastly
fiduciary

247
00:08:13,496 –> 00:08:13,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

248
00:08:14,240 –> 00:08:20,811
[michelle_richter]: concerns need to be satisfied because plan
sponsors and those who advise them serve in

249
00:08:20,851 –> 00:08:29,004
[michelle_richter]: a fiduciary capacity and the concerns that
i’m hearing about how advisors can introduce annuities

250
00:08:29,325 –> 00:08:30,607
[michelle_richter]: plan are

251
00:08:30,695 –> 00:08:30,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

252
00:08:31,328 –> 00:08:39,782
[michelle_richter]: more materially about ongoing monitoring than they
are about initial introduction where there’s there is

253
00:08:39,882 –> 00:08:49,498
[michelle_richter]: certainly a need within the plan advisory
community to get access to basic information about

254
00:08:49,819 –> 00:08:56,227
[michelle_richter]: about products but our product our industries
products but but i am hearing as i

255
00:08:56,287 –> 00:09:00,611
[michelle_richter]: said less concerned about how to get
enough information to be able to make an

256
00:09:00,671 –> 00:09:00,991
[michelle_richter]: initial

257
00:09:00,678 –> 00:09:01,668
[bruno_caron]: yeah

258
00:09:00,866 –> 00:09:01,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

259
00:09:01,051 –> 00:09:02,653
[michelle_richter]: recommendation than i

260
00:09:02,756 –> 00:09:03,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

261
00:09:02,873 –> 00:09:06,778
[michelle_richter]: am about things like how will i
know what renewal

262
00:09:06,746 –> 00:09:06,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

263
00:09:06,898 –> 00:09:08,661
[michelle_richter]: rates on indexinuities

264
00:09:08,546 –> 00:09:08,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

265
00:09:08,861 –> 00:09:14,611
[michelle_richter]: actually turn out to be since i’m
making this recommendation that needs to be monitored

266
00:09:14,671 –> 00:09:19,931
[michelle_richter]: on an ongoing basis so this the
kind of information that’s going to be necessary

267
00:09:20,665 –> 00:09:27,516
[michelle_richter]: within the plan advisory community for our
product lines to take off and it’s looking

268
00:09:27,616 –> 00:09:29,539
[michelle_richter]: to me like that’s going to be
the case

269
00:09:29,868 –> 00:09:29,888
[bruno_caron]: m

270
00:09:30,181 –> 00:09:37,460
[michelle_richter]: so we should all prepare accordingly um
i’d like to let mark pitch you on

271
00:09:37,540 –> 00:09:38,101
[michelle_richter]: why we should

272
00:09:38,126 –> 00:09:38,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

273
00:09:38,161 –> 00:09:39,363
[michelle_richter]: all prepare accordingly

274
00:09:39,146 –> 00:09:40,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

275
00:09:39,543 –> 00:09:44,772
[michelle_richter]: because you know my view is that
you know as it stands right now and

276
00:09:45,192 –> 00:09:46,955
[michelle_richter]: i’ll go deeper on this a couple
of

277
00:09:46,946 –> 00:09:46,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

278
00:09:46,995 –> 00:09:52,384
[michelle_richter]: minutes but you know as the community
stands right now amongst

279
00:09:52,608 –> 00:09:52,871
[bruno_caron]: oh

280
00:09:52,625 –> 00:09:58,935
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors as i mentioned plan advisors
they advise plans d c plans

281
00:09:59,036 –> 00:09:59,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

282
00:09:59,095 –> 00:10:02,838
[michelle_richter]: are inherently accumulation focused it’s never been
the

283
00:10:02,795 –> 00:10:02,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

284
00:10:02,919 –> 00:10:11,668
[michelle_richter]: responsibility of a plan advisor to understand
decumulation because historically plant sponsors did not want

285
00:10:11,768 –> 00:10:12,409
[michelle_richter]: to retain

286
00:10:12,296 –> 00:10:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

287
00:10:12,650 –> 00:10:19,862
[michelle_richter]: assets through participants retirement but that dynamic
has changed dramatically in the last five to

288
00:10:19,922 –> 00:10:25,251
[michelle_richter]: ten years and it’s it in large
part of function of record keeping fee structures

289
00:10:26,413 –> 00:10:31,962
[michelle_richter]: and there being economies of scale to
keeping participants in plan but it also has

290
00:10:32,042 –> 00:10:37,511
[michelle_richter]: to do with some regulatority since um
and it just is the case now that

291
00:10:37,631 –> 00:10:41,939
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors need to become more expert
and how to address the

292
00:10:41,908 –> 00:10:42,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

293
00:10:41,979 –> 00:10:46,049
[michelle_richter]: decumulation phase so this whole um

294
00:10:46,246 –> 00:10:46,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: michele i’ve

295
00:10:46,734 –> 00:10:46,754
[michelle_richter]: m

296
00:10:46,746 –> 00:10:47,207
[ramsey_d_smith]: got a i’ve

297
00:10:47,237 –> 00:10:47,742
[michelle_richter]: community

298
00:10:47,247 –> 00:10:48,369
[ramsey_d_smith]: got i’ve got a quick

299
00:10:48,288 –> 00:10:48,449
[michelle_richter]: yeah

300
00:10:48,429 –> 00:10:48,730
[ramsey_d_smith]: question

301
00:10:48,480 –> 00:10:48,520
[bruno_caron]: a

302
00:10:48,790 –> 00:10:49,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: if if

303
00:10:49,216 –> 00:10:49,318
[michelle_richter]: oh

304
00:10:49,271 –> 00:10:50,192
[ramsey_d_smith]: i may because i think

305
00:10:50,178 –> 00:10:50,441
[bruno_caron]: oh

306
00:10:50,785 –> 00:10:51,027
[michelle_richter]: yes

307
00:10:50,873 –> 00:10:51,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s there’s

308
00:10:51,329 –> 00:10:51,651
[michelle_richter]: please

309
00:10:51,474 –> 00:10:57,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: two interesting elements of what you’ve just
said so one is let’s talk a little

310
00:10:57,144 –> 00:11:00,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: bit about what is it plan advisor
look like right so right

311
00:11:00,759 –> 00:11:00,841
[michelle_richter]: ah

312
00:11:00,770 –> 00:11:00,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: there

313
00:11:00,773 –> 00:11:01,463
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

314
00:11:01,050 –> 00:11:01,491
[ramsey_d_smith]: there there’s

315
00:11:01,476 –> 00:11:01,557
[michelle_richter]: ah

316
00:11:01,531 –> 00:11:06,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: a broad spectrum of four one k
plans the small ones they’re big ones so

317
00:11:07,381 –> 00:11:12,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: we talk about plan advisors we’re talking
about r a are we talking about sort

318
00:11:12,270 –> 00:11:13,713
[ramsey_d_smith]: of large consultancies

319
00:11:13,605 –> 00:11:13,846
[michelle_richter]: yeah

320
00:11:13,813 –> 00:11:15,456
[ramsey_d_smith]: like like like a milliment or

321
00:11:15,814 –> 00:11:15,975
[michelle_richter]: yeah

322
00:11:15,857 –> 00:11:17,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: what is the what is the what
is the scope

323
00:11:18,145 –> 00:11:18,347
[michelle_richter]: yes

324
00:11:18,442 –> 00:11:19,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: people that we’re talking

325
00:11:19,125 –> 00:11:19,289
[michelle_richter]: oh

326
00:11:19,264 –> 00:11:19,444
[ramsey_d_smith]: about

327
00:11:20,666 –> 00:11:21,968
[michelle_richter]: the answer is yes and yes

328
00:11:22,116 –> 00:11:22,136
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

329
00:11:22,409 –> 00:11:23,290
[michelle_richter]: right so the

330
00:11:24,326 –> 00:11:24,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

331
00:11:24,672 –> 00:11:28,158
[michelle_richter]: the people who serve plans can can
be

332
00:11:28,985 –> 00:11:29,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

333
00:11:29,260 –> 00:11:29,701
[michelle_richter]: typically

334
00:11:29,726 –> 00:11:29,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

335
00:11:29,821 –> 00:11:31,764
[michelle_richter]: larger plans work with a

336
00:11:32,006 –> 00:11:32,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:11:32,025 –> 00:11:33,046
[michelle_richter]: sultan that has

338
00:11:33,154 –> 00:11:33,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

339
00:11:33,487 –> 00:11:33,687
[michelle_richter]: home

340
00:11:33,626 –> 00:11:33,909
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:11:33,808 –> 00:11:37,975
[michelle_richter]: office support working for an organization

342
00:11:37,899 –> 00:11:37,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

343
00:11:38,135 –> 00:11:41,320
[michelle_richter]: that is principally focused on plan advisement

344
00:11:42,005 –> 00:11:42,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

345
00:11:42,482 –> 00:11:47,010
[michelle_richter]: whereas retirement and advisors so so you’d
call those people consultants

346
00:11:47,360 –> 00:11:47,381
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

347
00:11:47,651 –> 00:11:48,292
[michelle_richter]: whereas you’d

348
00:11:48,215 –> 00:11:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

349
00:11:48,372 –> 00:11:48,572
[michelle_richter]: call

350
00:11:48,498 –> 00:11:48,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

351
00:11:48,692 –> 00:11:55,404
[michelle_richter]: an advisor a person who probably works
with a smaller shop and may be on

352
00:11:55,464 –> 00:11:59,877
[michelle_richter]: their own um and that always is
performed

353
00:11:59,450 –> 00:11:59,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

354
00:11:59,977 –> 00:12:01,683
[michelle_richter]: through a registered investment advisor

355
00:12:02,327 –> 00:12:03,090
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what would be the

356
00:12:03,026 –> 00:12:05,253
[michelle_richter]: but but they’re not per se wealth
managers

357
00:12:05,236 –> 00:12:09,741
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure and what and what sort of
size of what size of plans would they

358
00:12:09,801 –> 00:12:10,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: be typically

359
00:12:11,475 –> 00:12:11,717
[michelle_richter]: yeah

360
00:12:12,044 –> 00:12:12,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: advising

361
00:12:12,323 –> 00:12:12,444
[michelle_richter]: yeah

362
00:12:13,596 –> 00:12:13,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: a park

363
00:12:14,207 –> 00:12:18,414
[michelle_richter]: so the consultants might be looking in
the billion dollar range

364
00:12:18,299 –> 00:12:18,319
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

365
00:12:18,447 –> 00:12:18,468
[bruno_caron]: m

366
00:12:18,534 –> 00:12:19,916
[michelle_richter]: right and advisors

367
00:12:19,715 –> 00:12:19,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

368
00:12:20,036 –> 00:12:24,884
[michelle_richter]: are you know likely addressing the market
below that i mean that certainly

369
00:12:25,208 –> 00:12:25,432
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

370
00:12:25,405 –> 00:12:27,009
[michelle_richter]: a hard and fast rule but

371
00:12:27,896 –> 00:12:28,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

372
00:12:28,031 –> 00:12:29,233
[michelle_richter]: you know ball park

373
00:12:29,486 –> 00:12:33,453
[ramsey_d_smith]: so so the next next piece is
that i think it’s very interesting following that

374
00:12:33,533 –> 00:12:38,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: is the the it’s it’s it’s an
important business for a lot of r s

375
00:12:39,443 –> 00:12:43,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what you’re saying is that where
before it might have been a business that

376
00:12:43,721 –> 00:12:50,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: was that was limited to sort of
the accumulation phase now there’s this retention opportunity

377
00:12:51,237 –> 00:12:55,524
[ramsey_d_smith]: all the way into retirement it’s an
important business opportunity as well for that for

378
00:12:55,544 –> 00:12:57,111
[ramsey_d_smith]: that aeneisthatis that fair statement

379
00:12:58,806 –> 00:13:03,434
[michelle_richter]: it is a fair statement and it
is half of the reason why i’m here

380
00:13:03,514 –> 00:13:04,796
[michelle_richter]: today it’s because

381
00:13:04,458 –> 00:13:04,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

382
00:13:04,876 –> 00:13:06,599
[michelle_richter]: i believe that my people

383
00:13:06,326 –> 00:13:06,748
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

384
00:13:06,759 –> 00:13:08,642
[michelle_richter]: have a place within this community

385
00:13:08,817 –> 00:13:08,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

386
00:13:09,664 –> 00:13:10,906
[michelle_richter]: it the case that

387
00:13:10,840 –> 00:13:10,860
[bruno_caron]: i

388
00:13:11,627 –> 00:13:15,013
[michelle_richter]: retirement plan advisors don’t know annuities right

389
00:13:15,116 –> 00:13:15,357
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

390
00:13:15,193 –> 00:13:21,864
[michelle_richter]: with everybody certainly knows that that’s the
case and arica does require for experts

391
00:13:21,858 –> 00:13:22,616
[bruno_caron]: ye

392
00:13:22,045 –> 00:13:27,834
[michelle_richter]: who are advising a plan if they
do not have experts in a certain arena

393
00:13:27,914 –> 00:13:33,644
[michelle_richter]: that they think is important for the
plan then an every side adviser is required

394
00:13:33,744 –> 00:13:34,726
[michelle_richter]: to contract with

395
00:13:34,766 –> 00:13:35,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

396
00:13:34,786 –> 00:13:42,158
[michelle_richter]: an outside expert to to give them
guidance on how to review those you know

397
00:13:42,198 –> 00:13:50,212
[michelle_richter]: those solutions so you know from my
view i think that there is a need

398
00:13:50,612 –> 00:13:59,748
[michelle_richter]: for insurance experts to get ready to
help plan advisors to evaluate insurance contract that’s

399
00:13:59,828 –> 00:14:04,015
[michelle_richter]: at the heart of what mark and
i will be doing as early as february

400
00:14:03,995 –> 00:14:04,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

401
00:14:04,776 –> 00:14:06,038
[michelle_richter]: and and i

402
00:14:06,149 –> 00:14:06,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

403
00:14:06,178 –> 00:14:08,202
[michelle_richter]: feel that we will not

404
00:14:08,036 –> 00:14:08,278
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

405
00:14:08,302 –> 00:14:11,347
[michelle_richter]: be able to dress all of the
demand

406
00:14:11,246 –> 00:14:11,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

407
00:14:11,527 –> 00:14:16,375
[michelle_richter]: ourselves for such services because plan advisors
do not

408
00:14:16,304 –> 00:14:16,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:14:16,455 –> 00:14:24,611
[michelle_richter]: have that expertise my imagination is that
building models or that kind of expertise will

410
00:14:24,772 –> 00:14:32,178
[michelle_richter]: be hourly or project based or subscription
based and so if that is the case

411
00:14:32,559 –> 00:14:38,248
[michelle_richter]: here cannot be commissions paid in an
aria context so it seems to me

412
00:14:38,156 –> 00:14:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:14:38,449 –> 00:14:41,113
[michelle_richter]: that the guidance that is going to
be necessary

414
00:14:40,766 –> 00:14:41,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

415
00:14:41,213 –> 00:14:42,375
[michelle_richter]: is going to be livered

416
00:14:42,725 –> 00:14:42,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

417
00:14:42,816 –> 00:14:45,220
[michelle_richter]: v one of the mechanisms i just
described

418
00:14:45,515 –> 00:14:45,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

419
00:14:45,618 –> 00:14:45,699
[paul_tyler]: ay

420
00:14:45,821 –> 00:14:47,764
[michelle_richter]: and to me it appears that the

421
00:14:47,898 –> 00:14:47,918
[bruno_caron]: m

422
00:14:47,964 –> 00:14:50,388
[michelle_richter]: form of entity qualified to do such

423
00:14:50,273 –> 00:14:50,495
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

424
00:14:50,689 –> 00:14:56,539
[michelle_richter]: is an r a m and that’s
the reason why i have used my for

425
00:14:56,579 –> 00:14:59,604
[michelle_richter]: that purpose and and i

426
00:14:59,876 –> 00:15:00,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

427
00:14:59,924 –> 00:15:01,467
[michelle_richter]: think that plan advisers

428
00:15:01,001 –> 00:15:01,084
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

429
00:15:01,607 –> 00:15:06,896
[michelle_richter]: will desire for the counter party that
they interact with to also b fiduciary

430
00:15:07,195 –> 00:15:07,357
[paul_tyler]: yeah

431
00:15:07,838 –> 00:15:14,449
[michelle_richter]: an annuity fediciary for which i applied
for a trade mark because insurance fiduciary is

432
00:15:14,649 –> 00:15:21,082
[michelle_richter]: already trade marked by one man who
will prevent others from using that mark who

433
00:15:21,262 –> 00:15:25,412
[michelle_richter]: did in fact do so with me
which is the reason why my entity is

434
00:15:25,512 –> 00:15:25,933
[michelle_richter]: renamed

435
00:15:26,399 –> 00:15:26,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: other

436
00:15:26,588 –> 00:15:26,772
[paul_tyler]: work

437
00:15:26,620 –> 00:15:28,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: than owning the name does he actually
perform that function

438
00:15:31,406 –> 00:15:32,490
[michelle_richter]: i decline to comment

439
00:15:32,286 –> 00:15:32,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

440
00:15:32,590 –> 00:15:33,293
[michelle_richter]: on the individual

441
00:15:33,749 –> 00:15:33,949
[ramsey_d_smith]: i just

442
00:15:34,067 –> 00:15:34,288
[paul_tyler]: okay

443
00:15:34,350 –> 00:15:34,451
[ramsey_d_smith]: just

444
00:15:34,749 –> 00:15:35,732
[paul_tyler]: well and let me

445
00:15:35,693 –> 00:15:35,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: go

446
00:15:35,773 –> 00:15:35,913
[paul_tyler]: just

447
00:15:35,814 –> 00:15:35,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead

448
00:15:36,475 –> 00:15:38,381
[paul_tyler]: be even a little more specific for
a listener so

449
00:15:38,605 –> 00:15:42,652
[michelle_richter]: i hold a patent my former employer
holds a patent

450
00:15:42,473 –> 00:15:42,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

451
00:15:42,792 –> 00:15:44,135
[michelle_richter]: on intellectual property

452
00:15:44,186 –> 00:15:44,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:15:44,275 –> 00:15:51,908
[michelle_richter]: that i invented imbedding life insurance and
annuities into holistic acid application to challenge mark

454
00:15:52,629 –> 00:15:54,592
[michelle_richter]: who said that it can be done

455
00:15:54,657 –> 00:15:54,678
[bruno_caron]: m

456
00:15:54,732 –> 00:15:55,614
[michelle_richter]: it can be done

457
00:15:55,526 –> 00:15:55,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

458
00:15:56,075 –> 00:16:01,704
[michelle_richter]: it was done and yet i cannot
call myself an insurance fiduciary i can call

459
00:16:01,804 –> 00:16:02,568
[michelle_richter]: myself an annuity

460
00:16:02,594 –> 00:16:03,002
[paul_tyler]: uh

461
00:16:02,628 –> 00:16:03,131
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

462
00:16:04,174 –> 00:16:10,845
[paul_tyler]: well and i’ll say for my experience
providing financial planning

463
00:16:10,826 –> 00:16:11,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

464
00:16:10,986 –> 00:16:14,932
[paul_tyler]: support inside of corporate structure is immensely
complicated only from

465
00:16:14,876 –> 00:16:14,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

466
00:16:14,972 –> 00:16:17,657
[paul_tyler]: a legal perspect but a practical perspective

467
00:16:17,195 –> 00:16:17,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

468
00:16:17,737 –> 00:16:18,558
[paul_tyler]: of working with a

469
00:16:18,623 –> 00:16:18,643
[mark_chamberlain]: m

470
00:16:18,638 –> 00:16:23,406
[paul_tyler]: wide variety of employes so when you
talk about a plan advisor or an annuity

471
00:16:23,526 –> 00:16:30,658
[paul_tyler]: specialist is the client the and sponsor
or is the client the individuals and the

472
00:16:30,698 –> 00:16:33,242
[paul_tyler]: corporation or individuals inside the plan

473
00:16:35,228 –> 00:16:41,754
[michelle_richter]: i it’s a great question i would
argue there’s three clients there is the plan

474
00:16:41,814 –> 00:16:44,619
[michelle_richter]: advisor who makes the determination

475
00:16:44,036 –> 00:16:44,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

476
00:16:44,719 –> 00:16:46,843
[michelle_richter]: of how to select other service providers

477
00:16:46,406 –> 00:16:46,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

478
00:16:47,764 –> 00:16:53,996
[michelle_richter]: there the plan itself and there are
the participants in the plan and the person

479
00:16:54,076 –> 00:16:58,404
[michelle_richter]: who’s giving the guidance has to be
thinking about all of those constituencies

480
00:17:00,266 –> 00:17:01,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

481
00:17:00,914 –> 00:17:05,402
[paul_tyler]: i guess is that is that like
is that possible right i think of the

482
00:17:06,023 –> 00:17:11,111
[paul_tyler]: thou think of the challenge s just
to get the enrollment you mentioned i think

483
00:17:11,351 –> 00:17:13,617
[paul_tyler]: michelle you favor an din into this

484
00:17:13,770 –> 00:17:13,991
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

485
00:17:14,158 –> 00:17:15,221
[paul_tyler]: into the process

486
00:17:15,317 –> 00:17:17,069
[michelle_richter]: yeah i favor

487
00:17:16,828 –> 00:17:17,010
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

488
00:17:17,170 –> 00:17:17,532
[michelle_richter]: up doubt

489
00:17:17,794 –> 00:17:21,735
[paul_tyler]: ped out lopped out perfect world

490
00:17:21,836 –> 00:17:21,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

491
00:17:21,875 –> 00:17:22,336
[paul_tyler]: what’s the

492
00:17:22,648 –> 00:17:24,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm oh

493
00:17:23,818 –> 00:17:24,539
[paul_tyler]: ramsey gives us

494
00:17:24,678 –> 00:17:25,338
[bruno_caron]: yeah

495
00:17:24,720 –> 00:17:25,421
[paul_tyler]: the tuns up on

496
00:17:25,376 –> 00:17:25,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:17:25,461 –> 00:17:25,782
[paul_tyler]: that one

498
00:17:26,298 –> 00:17:26,765
[bruno_caron]: uh

499
00:17:26,885 –> 00:17:26,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

500
00:17:27,384 –> 00:17:27,685
[paul_tyler]: perfect

501
00:17:27,537 –> 00:17:27,558
[bruno_caron]: h

502
00:17:27,785 –> 00:17:28,065
[paul_tyler]: world

503
00:17:28,076 –> 00:17:29,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

504
00:17:28,787 –> 00:17:30,249
[paul_tyler]: what is that number like

505
00:17:30,678 –> 00:17:31,398
[bruno_caron]: yeah

506
00:17:30,730 –> 00:17:31,531
[paul_tyler]: does everybody have

507
00:17:31,673 –> 00:17:31,693
[mark_chamberlain]: m

508
00:17:32,235 –> 00:17:32,457
[michelle_richter]: oh

509
00:17:32,513 –> 00:17:34,276
[paul_tyler]: five percent their assets between thirty

510
00:17:34,233 –> 00:17:34,395
[michelle_richter]: yeah

511
00:17:34,316 –> 00:17:37,661
[paul_tyler]: and forty in this annuity is that
then you get to fifty and sixty you’ve

512
00:17:37,681 –> 00:17:38,022
[paul_tyler]: got ten

513
00:17:38,696 –> 00:17:39,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

514
00:17:39,174 –> 00:17:39,595
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

515
00:17:40,095 –> 00:17:40,438
[michelle_richter]: oh

516
00:17:40,377 –> 00:17:40,538
[paul_tyler]: if you

517
00:17:40,466 –> 00:17:40,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

518
00:17:40,558 –> 00:17:41,280
[paul_tyler]: were righting a lot what

519
00:17:41,185 –> 00:17:41,287
[michelle_richter]: the

520
00:17:41,320 –> 00:17:41,460
[paul_tyler]: would

521
00:17:41,449 –> 00:17:41,753
[michelle_richter]: answer

522
00:17:41,500 –> 00:17:41,701
[paul_tyler]: it be

523
00:17:43,726 –> 00:17:44,787
[michelle_richter]: well i’m actually going to

524
00:17:44,808 –> 00:17:45,072
[bruno_caron]: yeah

525
00:17:44,847 –> 00:17:48,373
[michelle_richter]: have mark answer this because our organization
takes

526
00:17:48,533 –> 00:17:48,901
[mark_chamberlain]: my

527
00:17:48,554 –> 00:17:53,261
[michelle_richter]: a view point around how the stages
that we think you’re supposed to look at

528
00:17:53,742 –> 00:17:55,525
[michelle_richter]: as a plan advisor then

529
00:17:55,886 –> 00:17:56,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

530
00:17:56,327 –> 00:18:02,270
[michelle_richter]: it’s through that lens that you’re supposed
to then think about products all you mark

531
00:18:04,343 –> 00:18:07,807
[mark_chamberlain]: we didn’t see that one coming but
i’ll give

532
00:18:07,695 –> 00:18:07,957
[michelle_richter]: uh

533
00:18:07,867 –> 00:18:08,227
[mark_chamberlain]: it a shot

534
00:18:08,298 –> 00:18:08,579
[bruno_caron]: my

535
00:18:08,644 –> 00:18:08,685
[michelle_richter]: uh

536
00:18:08,945 –> 00:18:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

537
00:18:09,589 –> 00:18:12,945
[mark_chamberlain]: my perspective on all of this is
that

538
00:18:13,835 –> 00:18:13,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

539
00:18:14,913 –> 00:18:22,454
[mark_chamberlain]: open architecture approach to providing institutional quality
diligence and consulting means that

540
00:18:23,366 –> 00:18:23,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

541
00:18:23,395 –> 00:18:29,735
[mark_chamberlain]: there is no best solution there are
only trade offs and one of the possible

542
00:18:30,375 –> 00:18:31,497
[mark_chamberlain]: conclusions that a board

543
00:18:31,526 –> 00:18:31,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

544
00:18:31,597 –> 00:18:34,620
[mark_chamberlain]: can reach is that bringing an annuity
inside the

545
00:18:34,555 –> 00:18:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

546
00:18:34,660 –> 00:18:35,361
[mark_chamberlain]: plan isn’t the

547
00:18:35,366 –> 00:18:35,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

548
00:18:35,421 –> 00:18:38,919
[mark_chamberlain]: best decision for them it has to
be one of the options on the table

549
00:18:38,996 –> 00:18:39,241
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

550
00:18:39,401 –> 00:18:44,218
[mark_chamberlain]: and the consultant has to be ready
to support that and educated in such a

551
00:18:44,278 –> 00:18:45,645
[mark_chamberlain]: way that that’s that’s actually

552
00:18:45,447 –> 00:18:45,528
[michelle_richter]: ah

553
00:18:45,786 –> 00:18:51,448
[mark_chamberlain]: considered oh in an unbiased way so
that’s a little bit

554
00:18:51,408 –> 00:18:51,428
[bruno_caron]: m

555
00:18:51,488 –> 00:18:57,246
[mark_chamberlain]: of a constraint on who’s going to
be considered the outside expert and that gets

556
00:18:57,326 –> 00:18:59,551
[mark_chamberlain]: to the heart of michel’s point of

557
00:19:00,686 –> 00:19:01,110
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

558
00:19:00,693 –> 00:19:04,201
[mark_chamberlain]: the right way to compensate this kind
of an expert isn’t based on a product

559
00:19:04,301 –> 00:19:08,650
[mark_chamberlain]: sale the only way you’re going to
get truly objectivity is if they’re they’re paid

560
00:19:08,730 –> 00:19:10,514
[mark_chamberlain]: a consulting a hard dollar consulting fee

561
00:19:10,695 –> 00:19:10,916
[michelle_richter]: oh

562
00:19:11,476 –> 00:19:19,699
[mark_chamberlain]: so with that said no is it
optimal to try and say to a plant

563
00:19:19,655 –> 00:19:19,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

564
00:19:19,739 –> 00:19:26,971
[mark_chamberlain]: participant you should have ex percent defaulted
into this solution well that gets into the

565
00:19:27,051 –> 00:19:29,785
[mark_chamberlain]: triage what stage is the participant

566
00:19:29,345 –> 00:19:29,366
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

567
00:19:30,007 –> 00:19:34,636
[mark_chamberlain]: in and their financial planning are they
the accumulation

568
00:19:34,556 –> 00:19:34,818
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

569
00:19:34,716 –> 00:19:35,017
[mark_chamberlain]: phase

570
00:19:35,088 –> 00:19:36,198
[bruno_caron]: yeah

571
00:19:35,118 –> 00:19:38,491
[mark_chamberlain]: are they in the near retirement phase
or are they going to retire next year

572
00:19:39,623 –> 00:19:44,651
[mark_chamberlain]: and so that’s probably the first the
first conversation for

573
00:19:44,486 –> 00:19:45,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah m

574
00:19:45,893 –> 00:19:49,599
[mark_chamberlain]: the expert to have with the board
is what stage do you want to solve

575
00:19:49,679 –> 00:19:54,633
[mark_chamberlain]: for in your plan you want to
try and put something in place that will

576
00:19:54,733 –> 00:19:59,181
[mark_chamberlain]: fit those who are in the most
urgent need which are those people that are

577
00:19:59,221 –> 00:20:01,965
[mark_chamberlain]: retiring this year next year the year
after

578
00:20:02,636 –> 00:20:03,299
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

579
00:20:02,847 –> 00:20:09,201
[mark_chamberlain]: and so there are they’ve got some
educational needs about how to think about putting

580
00:20:09,261 –> 00:20:14,124
[mark_chamberlain]: together a retirement income plan that can
not only be secure for them in an

581
00:20:14,224 –> 00:20:19,293
[mark_chamberlain]: inflationary environment but in possibly a deflationary
environment also and you have to be able

582
00:20:19,373 –> 00:20:27,210
[mark_chamberlain]: to do some serious education about where
annuities fit relative systematic withdrawal and then you

583
00:20:27,250 –> 00:20:29,559
[mark_chamberlain]: have to be able to do a
deep dive from there on what kind of

584
00:20:29,639 –> 00:20:35,330
[mark_chamberlain]: ininuuity and if we focus on the
only decumulation then we need to do a

585
00:20:35,390 –> 00:20:40,619
[mark_chamberlain]: deep dive on spes versus riders versus
you know the various ways of generating lifetime

586
00:20:40,699 –> 00:20:45,549
[mark_chamberlain]: income so there is no answer to
the question of you know how do we

587
00:20:45,609 –> 00:20:50,921
[mark_chamberlain]: come up with a one size fits
all solution because it’s much too complicated for

588
00:20:50,961 –> 00:20:51,101
[mark_chamberlain]: that

589
00:20:52,189 –> 00:20:56,115
[bruno_caron]: and that makes perfect sense in terms
of trade off i love the way you

590
00:20:56,195 –> 00:21:00,743
[bruno_caron]: put it in terms of you know
there is no right solution there’s no one

591
00:21:01,825 –> 00:21:06,392
[bruno_caron]: one right answer because quite frankly if
there was we wouldn’t be talking about it

592
00:21:06,432 –> 00:21:06,773
[bruno_caron]: right now

593
00:21:07,553 –> 00:21:07,573
[mark_chamberlain]: m

594
00:21:07,554 –> 00:21:14,546
[bruno_caron]: and my question is have you looked
at or found a way to obviously there’s

595
00:21:14,606 –> 00:21:19,073
[bruno_caron]: a classical measure of you know assets
on their management x per cent of your

596
00:21:19,133 –> 00:21:24,462
[bruno_caron]: your portfolio should be you know allocated
one way one way or the other but

597
00:21:24,743 –> 00:21:30,753
[bruno_caron]: is there a way to to do
that exact same reasoning that exactly framework with

598
00:21:30,913 –> 00:21:32,776
[bruno_caron]: income and how much income

599
00:21:33,905 –> 00:21:33,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:21:34,219 –> 00:21:36,582
[bruno_caron]: on you know the set of all
of your

601
00:21:36,935 –> 00:21:36,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

602
00:21:36,963 –> 00:21:42,233
[bruno_caron]: your your assets would act or your
portfolio would would generate

603
00:21:44,132 –> 00:21:44,274
[mark_chamberlain]: what

604
00:21:44,295 –> 00:21:47,180
[michelle_richter]: i think there are lots of ways
to do that and it’s always going to

605
00:21:47,220 –> 00:21:49,564
[michelle_richter]: be a question and mark you should
disagree

606
00:21:49,166 –> 00:21:49,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

607
00:21:49,624 –> 00:21:54,633
[michelle_richter]: with me if this is not your
opinion but you know mark always tells me

608
00:21:54,833 –> 00:21:57,558
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary is t process right so

609
00:21:57,783 –> 00:21:57,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

610
00:21:57,958 –> 00:22:00,002
[michelle_richter]: there’s a million ways that you can

611
00:22:00,128 –> 00:22:00,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

612
00:22:00,522 –> 00:22:01,164
[michelle_richter]: do exactly

613
00:22:01,145 –> 00:22:01,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

614
00:22:01,204 –> 00:22:01,985
[michelle_richter]: what you’re describing

615
00:22:01,707 –> 00:22:01,728
[bruno_caron]: m

616
00:22:01,917 –> 00:22:01,999
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

617
00:22:02,025 –> 00:22:04,068
[michelle_richter]: brune and as long as when you’re

618
00:22:03,923 –> 00:22:04,105
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

619
00:22:04,128 –> 00:22:05,651
[michelle_richter]: acting in a futiary capacity

620
00:22:05,606 –> 00:22:05,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

621
00:22:05,771 –> 00:22:10,242
[michelle_richter]: as long as you document how you
did it and you did it you’re in

622
00:22:10,302 –> 00:22:10,763
[michelle_richter]: good hands

623
00:22:13,285 –> 00:22:17,898
[mark_chamberlain]: i spent the last ten years working
on a think tank project that i started

624
00:22:17,955 –> 00:22:18,178
[michelle_richter]: yeah

625
00:22:17,978 –> 00:22:22,485
[mark_chamberlain]: in two thousand ten and the objective
was to try and get l d to

626
00:22:22,545 –> 00:22:26,585
[mark_chamberlain]: translate to individuals and l d i
not in the way that the u k

627
00:22:26,865 –> 00:22:30,790
[mark_chamberlain]: used leverage to try and come up
with you now meeting a funding obligation

628
00:22:30,920 –> 00:22:31,021
[bruno_caron]: oh

629
00:22:31,226 –> 00:22:31,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: mark

630
00:22:31,891 –> 00:22:31,931
[mark_chamberlain]: l

631
00:22:31,930 –> 00:22:32,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: can

632
00:22:31,971 –> 00:22:31,991
[mark_chamberlain]: d

633
00:22:32,071 –> 00:22:34,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: you define l d i for the
broader audience

634
00:22:33,948 –> 00:22:34,608
[bruno_caron]: okay

635
00:22:35,433 –> 00:22:36,896
[mark_chamberlain]: liability driven investing

636
00:22:36,425 –> 00:22:36,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

637
00:22:36,888 –> 00:22:37,172
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:22:38,158 –> 00:22:39,841
[mark_chamberlain]: is what the acronym stands for and

639
00:22:40,376 –> 00:22:40,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

640
00:22:40,542 –> 00:22:41,083
[mark_chamberlain]: it’s something

641
00:22:40,878 –> 00:22:41,101
[bruno_caron]: may

642
00:22:41,163 –> 00:22:42,545
[mark_chamberlain]: that the corporate

643
00:22:42,206 –> 00:22:42,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

644
00:22:42,585 –> 00:22:44,048
[mark_chamberlain]: defined benefit plans moved

645
00:22:44,045 –> 00:22:44,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

646
00:22:44,128 –> 00:22:47,293
[mark_chamberlain]: to following basically the moment and really

647
00:22:47,075 –> 00:22:47,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:22:47,353 –> 00:22:52,362
[mark_chamberlain]: increased after the pension protection act in
two thousand six where there was a c

649
00:22:52,582 –> 00:22:52,983
[mark_chamberlain]: change

650
00:22:53,105 –> 00:22:53,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

651
00:22:53,243 –> 00:22:58,231
[mark_chamberlain]: in the funding ratio calculations for d
b plants they could no longer use

652
00:22:58,565 –> 00:22:58,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

653
00:22:58,592 –> 00:23:06,005
[mark_chamberlain]: one discount rate to figure out what
whether they were funded or not and the

654
00:23:06,065 –> 00:23:07,287
[mark_chamberlain]: new rules said that for

655
00:23:07,488 –> 00:23:09,228
[bruno_caron]: yeah

656
00:23:07,928 –> 00:23:08,990
[mark_chamberlain]: those assets that

657
00:23:08,945 –> 00:23:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

658
00:23:09,170 –> 00:23:13,077
[mark_chamberlain]: were the essential assets of the plan
to be fully

659
00:23:13,095 –> 00:23:13,338
[michelle_richter]: yes

660
00:23:13,177 –> 00:23:19,124
[mark_chamberlain]: funded meaning for those retires that are
already in retire that part of the plan

661
00:23:19,204 –> 00:23:21,427
[mark_chamberlain]: had to be fully funded to be
secure

662
00:23:21,348 –> 00:23:22,158
[bruno_caron]: yeah

663
00:23:22,027 –> 00:23:23,429
[mark_chamberlain]: so they said those assets

664
00:23:23,465 –> 00:23:23,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

665
00:23:23,669 –> 00:23:24,530
[mark_chamberlain]: have to use a discount

666
00:23:24,386 –> 00:23:24,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

667
00:23:24,610 –> 00:23:29,267
[mark_chamberlain]: rate that’s basically a risk free rate
a short term you know investment grade bond

668
00:23:29,347 –> 00:23:33,774
[mark_chamberlain]: rate where as he for the employes
that are retiring down the road twenty thirty

669
00:23:33,794 –> 00:23:39,004
[mark_chamberlain]: years out they could use a longer
duration interest rate calculation so they can okay

670
00:23:39,647 –> 00:23:44,786
[mark_chamberlain]: we call a three bucket approach they
segmented the assets of the plan based on

671
00:23:45,026 –> 00:23:51,276
[mark_chamberlain]: how risky the retirement funding need was
and so it’s really an asset liability matching

672
00:23:51,637 –> 00:23:52,358
[mark_chamberlain]: kind of a formula

673
00:23:52,618 –> 00:23:52,638
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

674
00:23:53,179 –> 00:23:55,583
[mark_chamberlain]: so we said why couldn’t that apply
to individuals

675
00:23:56,096 –> 00:23:56,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

676
00:23:56,124 –> 00:24:01,758
[mark_chamberlain]: because if you try and make the
translation in terms of utility what onamous call

677
00:24:02,483 –> 00:24:03,388
[mark_chamberlain]: what’s the utility

678
00:24:03,035 –> 00:24:03,056
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:24:03,489 –> 00:24:03,549
[mark_chamberlain]: of

680
00:24:03,618 –> 00:24:03,881
[bruno_caron]: oh

681
00:24:03,871 –> 00:24:03,971
[mark_chamberlain]: the

682
00:24:03,905 –> 00:24:03,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:24:04,012 –> 00:24:10,317
[mark_chamberlain]: position for that individual the utility of
the essential expenses their food shelter

684
00:24:10,080 –> 00:24:10,101
[michelle_richter]: a

685
00:24:10,397 –> 00:24:16,823
[mark_chamberlain]: and health insurance is different than their
utility for travel and vacation expenses much less

686
00:24:16,903 –> 00:24:20,750
[mark_chamberlain]: essential and so lot of lot of
thinkers in the industry have come up with

687
00:24:20,850 –> 00:24:21,972
[mark_chamberlain]: you know a way of saying let’s

688
00:24:21,894 –> 00:24:21,915
[michelle_richter]: m

689
00:24:22,853 –> 00:24:26,059
[mark_chamberlain]: let’s they’ve use different terms for it
but

690
00:24:26,096 –> 00:24:26,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

691
00:24:27,401 –> 00:24:28,784
[mark_chamberlain]: they basically said let’s about

692
00:24:28,766 –> 00:24:30,386
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

693
00:24:28,945 –> 00:24:30,169
[mark_chamberlain]: using annuities for

694
00:24:30,896 –> 00:24:31,161
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

695
00:24:31,614 –> 00:24:35,764
[mark_chamberlain]: most necessary part of a person’s balance
sheet in retirement

696
00:24:35,295 –> 00:24:35,315
[michelle_richter]: m

697
00:24:35,705 –> 00:24:35,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

698
00:24:36,385 –> 00:24:41,155
[mark_chamberlain]: and get those things funded in a
secure way and we could think about using

699
00:24:41,576 –> 00:24:46,464
[mark_chamberlain]: something that can have more variability for
the expenses that more discretionary

700
00:24:46,290 –> 00:24:46,310
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

701
00:24:47,145 –> 00:24:48,127
[mark_chamberlain]: and we think that applies

702
00:24:47,937 –> 00:24:47,958
[bruno_caron]: m

703
00:24:48,568 –> 00:24:49,449
[mark_chamberlain]: almost on a one to

704
00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:49,460
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

705
00:24:49,549 –> 00:24:56,437
[mark_chamberlain]: one basis just based on economics one
ant and so the idea that corporate pension

706
00:24:56,538 –> 00:25:02,596
[mark_chamberlain]: plans we’re forced to move down this
road in two thousand six but in the

707
00:25:02,956 –> 00:25:03,418
[mark_chamberlain]: personal

708
00:25:03,215 –> 00:25:03,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

709
00:25:03,538 –> 00:25:05,985
[mark_chamberlain]: financial planning world we’re still

710
00:25:06,116 –> 00:25:06,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

711
00:25:06,126 –> 00:25:13,029
[mark_chamberlain]: treating individuals in most software like old
defined benefit plants and we use one discount

712
00:25:13,089 –> 00:25:17,496
[mark_chamberlain]: rate which is usually based on i
didn’t expect to return from risk assets to

713
00:25:17,536 –> 00:25:22,927
[mark_chamberlain]: figure out whether somebody’s fully funded so
i record mentation is that the planning shift

714
00:25:23,288 –> 00:25:26,255
[mark_chamberlain]: to a discussion with participants about let’s
let’s

715
00:25:26,130 –> 00:25:26,150
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

716
00:25:26,515 –> 00:25:28,641
[mark_chamberlain]: have you sit down and figure out
with your spouse

717
00:25:28,826 –> 00:25:30,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

718
00:25:29,523 –> 00:25:30,889
[mark_chamberlain]: what your essential expenses

719
00:25:30,836 –> 00:25:31,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

720
00:25:31,010 –> 00:25:36,425
[mark_chamberlain]: are put those in the bucket number
one bucket number two could be the ones

721
00:25:36,465 –> 00:25:39,508
[mark_chamberlain]: that follow after that in terms of
need and then bucket number three could be

722
00:25:40,049 –> 00:25:43,072
[mark_chamberlain]: you know your your less essential or
your optional expenses

723
00:25:42,618 –> 00:25:42,879
[bruno_caron]: yeah

724
00:25:43,613 –> 00:25:46,341
[mark_chamberlain]: you could think about finding them differently
but for the first bucket

725
00:25:47,028 –> 00:25:47,231
[bruno_caron]: oh

726
00:25:47,134 –> 00:25:48,508
[mark_chamberlain]: should really consider an annuity

727
00:25:49,791 –> 00:25:52,736
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m michel a mark i want to
jump in here so really interesting topic i

728
00:25:53,377 –> 00:25:57,123
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: just to pick it back i want
you just said mark so m the average

729
00:25:57,343 –> 00:26:02,933
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: plan you know participant in particular that
employ that’s maybe approaching retirement this might be

730
00:26:03,053 –> 00:26:07,160
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: like mind blowing concept re thinking how
they’re going to contribute

731
00:26:07,145 –> 00:26:07,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

732
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:11,747
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: into their plan so from an education
perspective in particular bringing up the word annuity

733
00:26:13,398 –> 00:26:13,660
[bruno_caron]: oh

734
00:26:13,890 –> 00:26:16,334
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: now no verb michelle um but bringing
up

735
00:26:16,316 –> 00:26:16,583
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

736
00:26:16,374 –> 00:26:17,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the word annuity

737
00:26:17,325 –> 00:26:17,668
[michelle_richter]: oh

738
00:26:17,576 –> 00:26:18,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: um you know

739
00:26:18,606 –> 00:26:18,808
[michelle_richter]: yeah

740
00:26:19,139 –> 00:26:23,967
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: who’s responsible for that education getting that
plan participant at the sponsor is at the

741
00:26:24,007 –> 00:26:26,815
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: provider combination of both and then i
have follow up question to that

742
00:26:29,517 –> 00:26:33,724
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s going to be everybody
you know so it’s all

743
00:26:33,686 –> 00:26:33,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

744
00:26:33,784 –> 00:26:36,629
[michelle_richter]: of the above and more it’s going
to take

745
00:26:36,506 –> 00:26:37,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

746
00:26:36,769 –> 00:26:42,258
[michelle_richter]: industry organizations like the irikis has begun
working on consumer

747
00:26:42,198 –> 00:26:42,459
[bruno_caron]: oh

748
00:26:42,318 –> 00:26:42,639
[michelle_richter]: facing

749
00:26:42,515 –> 00:26:42,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

750
00:26:42,719 –> 00:26:44,582
[michelle_richter]: materials there is a chance

751
00:26:44,456 –> 00:26:45,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

752
00:26:44,722 –> 00:26:45,924
[michelle_richter]: we may do so together

753
00:26:45,918 –> 00:26:45,938
[bruno_caron]: o

754
00:26:46,064 –> 00:26:46,725
[michelle_richter]: with the alliance

755
00:26:46,646 –> 00:26:47,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

756
00:26:46,805 –> 00:26:50,652
[michelle_richter]: for lifetime income so i think not
only

757
00:26:50,615 –> 00:26:51,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

758
00:26:51,133 –> 00:26:56,542
[michelle_richter]: the categories in cluded are those responsible
for education but more broadly

759
00:26:56,598 –> 00:26:57,288
[bruno_caron]: yeah

760
00:26:56,742 –> 00:26:57,423
[michelle_richter]: the industry

761
00:26:57,162 –> 00:26:57,491
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: did you

762
00:26:58,184 –> 00:27:02,612
[michelle_richter]: needs through dispassionate third party kind of
organizations

763
00:27:01,796 –> 00:27:01,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

764
00:27:03,153 –> 00:27:09,168
[michelle_richter]: as well as through the individual product
providers as well as through record keepers through

765
00:27:09,208 –> 00:27:16,112
[michelle_richter]: the employer themselves the employer is the
person that the plan participant or the entity

766
00:27:16,172 –> 00:27:19,137
[michelle_richter]: that the person the participant feels they
can trust

767
00:27:19,438 –> 00:27:19,950
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

768
00:27:20,079 –> 00:27:23,645
[michelle_richter]: and rightly so so the materials have
to get you

769
00:27:24,236 –> 00:27:24,561
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

770
00:27:24,546 –> 00:27:26,610
[michelle_richter]: playin sponsors but they also have to
get

771
00:27:26,696 –> 00:27:26,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

772
00:27:27,251 –> 00:27:30,336
[michelle_richter]: from there to to the end participants
and that’s never

773
00:27:30,086 –> 00:27:30,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:27:30,436 –> 00:27:30,917
[michelle_richter]: an easy

775
00:27:32,216 –> 00:27:32,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

776
00:27:32,960 –> 00:27:33,461
[michelle_richter]: task to

777
00:27:33,446 –> 00:27:34,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

778
00:27:33,561 –> 00:27:38,069
[michelle_richter]: accomplish because most men gins choose not
to engage with their plans

779
00:27:38,556 –> 00:27:39,030
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

780
00:27:38,830 –> 00:27:39,051
[michelle_richter]: um

781
00:27:39,305 –> 00:27:39,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

782
00:27:39,692 –> 00:27:41,134
[michelle_richter]: and that’s pretty unfortunate

783
00:27:41,298 –> 00:27:41,521
[bruno_caron]: oh

784
00:27:41,334 –> 00:27:44,800
[michelle_richter]: but they choose not to write up
until the point of retirement and then they

785
00:27:44,900 –> 00:27:51,553
[michelle_richter]: experience overwhelm or the perience shame for
not having saved enough and at that point

786
00:27:52,275 –> 00:27:53,918
[michelle_richter]: there’s you know a real challenge

787
00:27:53,816 –> 00:27:54,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:27:54,118 –> 00:27:54,299
[michelle_richter]: to

789
00:27:54,716 –> 00:27:54,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

790
00:27:55,121 –> 00:27:56,383
[michelle_richter]: help them you know when it’s

791
00:27:56,880 –> 00:27:57,660
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

792
00:27:57,185 –> 00:27:57,807
[michelle_richter]: on that last

793
00:27:57,746 –> 00:27:58,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

794
00:27:57,887 –> 00:27:58,930
[michelle_richter]: day before they retire

795
00:27:58,910 –> 00:27:59,072
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

796
00:27:59,030 –> 00:28:00,413
[michelle_richter]: you know it’s much better if

797
00:28:00,671 –> 00:28:00,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

798
00:28:00,895 –> 00:28:01,356
[michelle_richter]: a financial

799
00:28:01,038 –> 00:28:01,340
[bruno_caron]: oh

800
00:28:01,286 –> 00:28:01,572
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:28:01,436 –> 00:28:04,263
[michelle_richter]: professional is in front of that person
sooner than that

802
00:28:04,470 –> 00:28:06,463
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: they kind of set it on auto
pilot so

803
00:28:07,575 –> 00:28:07,818
[michelle_richter]: yeah

804
00:28:07,641 –> 00:28:13,386
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: next question is am i hearing maybe
a new career path or even a talent

805
00:28:13,446 –> 00:28:19,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: opportunity for agents um so the plan
provider i’m just the practicality of how an

806
00:28:19,075 –> 00:28:22,841
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: annuity is sold you know who has
to sign the apple how does this happen

807
00:28:23,002 –> 00:28:23,222
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so i’m

808
00:28:23,225 –> 00:28:23,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

809
00:28:23,262 –> 00:28:28,230
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thinking through where does the role of
the agent plan is the provider hiring agents

810
00:28:28,270 –> 00:28:28,931
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: as consultants

811
00:28:29,165 –> 00:28:29,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:28:29,172 –> 00:28:32,397
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: or or agents going to have employee
opportunities in within plan

813
00:28:32,285 –> 00:28:32,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

814
00:28:32,457 –> 00:28:35,563
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: providers going forward can you speak a
little bit about how you in vision

815
00:28:35,655 –> 00:28:36,804
[michelle_richter]: yeah

816
00:28:35,883 –> 00:28:37,647
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i know we don’t know exactly but
how this

817
00:28:37,599 –> 00:28:37,782
[michelle_richter]: yeah

818
00:28:37,707 –> 00:28:38,148
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: all works

819
00:28:40,106 –> 00:28:40,266
[michelle_richter]: well

820
00:28:40,320 –> 00:28:41,130
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

821
00:28:40,627 –> 00:28:41,248
[michelle_richter]: i’m not sure

822
00:28:41,160 –> 00:28:41,760
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

823
00:28:41,368 –> 00:28:43,652
[michelle_richter]: exactly i just know it’s going a
happen

824
00:28:43,663 –> 00:28:43,864
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

825
00:28:44,093 –> 00:28:47,318
[michelle_richter]: so i think people should prepare for
the fact that it’s going to

826
00:28:47,298 –> 00:28:47,539
[bruno_caron]: oh

827
00:28:47,378 –> 00:28:47,659
[michelle_richter]: happen

828
00:28:47,636 –> 00:28:47,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

829
00:28:48,821 –> 00:28:49,722
[michelle_richter]: and my hope is

830
00:28:49,696 –> 00:28:49,837
[bruno_caron]: yeah

831
00:28:49,822 –> 00:28:52,868
[michelle_richter]: that my hope is that other

832
00:28:52,710 –> 00:28:52,957
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

833
00:28:52,948 –> 00:28:55,312
[michelle_richter]: members of the insurance community

834
00:28:55,424 –> 00:28:56,144
[paul_tyler]: oh

835
00:28:55,452 –> 00:28:55,612
[michelle_richter]: make

836
00:28:55,518 –> 00:28:55,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

837
00:28:55,713 –> 00:28:56,554
[michelle_richter]: the decision to

838
00:28:56,628 –> 00:28:56,890
[bruno_caron]: oh

839
00:28:56,634 –> 00:29:01,242
[michelle_richter]: become insurance advisors where advisors are

840
00:29:01,196 –> 00:29:01,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

841
00:29:01,302 –> 00:29:04,335
[michelle_richter]: verb sellers yeah

842
00:29:04,078 –> 00:29:04,279
[paul_tyler]: verb

843
00:29:04,367 –> 00:29:04,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: but

844
00:29:04,379 –> 00:29:04,741
[paul_tyler]: sellers

845
00:29:04,508 –> 00:29:05,489
[ramsey_d_smith]: can you hang that shingle

846
00:29:05,284 –> 00:29:05,304
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

847
00:29:05,328 –> 00:29:05,836
[bruno_caron]: uh

848
00:29:05,569 –> 00:29:06,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: now i mean it’s it’s

849
00:29:06,427 –> 00:29:06,468
[bruno_caron]: uh

850
00:29:06,551 –> 00:29:08,494
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very so the use case

851
00:29:08,294 –> 00:29:08,559
[paul_tyler]: oh

852
00:29:08,554 –> 00:29:14,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: is very clear in a world where
by the way tis a great questions like

853
00:29:14,358 –> 00:29:14,581
[bruno_caron]: yeah

854
00:29:14,564 –> 00:29:15,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: really getting right the heart

855
00:29:15,566 –> 00:29:15,730
[michelle_richter]: yeah

856
00:29:15,646 –> 00:29:16,227
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the matter there

857
00:29:16,683 –> 00:29:17,185
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thanks ramsey

858
00:29:17,489 –> 00:29:22,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: but so it’s a it’s a business
opportunity is a business opportunity for r as

859
00:29:22,698 –> 00:29:24,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: in this in the d c space
check

860
00:29:24,888 –> 00:29:25,089
[bruno_caron]: oh

861
00:29:25,342 –> 00:29:31,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there is this open knee for
open need for insurance experts in that space

862
00:29:31,795 –> 00:29:39,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: check right but it’s not clear to
me that there’s a there’s there’s a designation

863
00:29:39,728 –> 00:29:43,653
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there’s a what is the you
put up your shingle now what does that

864
00:29:43,713 –> 00:29:44,253
[ramsey_d_smith]: shingle say

865
00:29:44,488 –> 00:29:44,670
[michelle_richter]: yeah

866
00:29:44,994 –> 00:29:45,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

867
00:29:46,115 –> 00:29:47,277
[michelle_richter]: great question it’s

868
00:29:47,186 –> 00:29:48,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

869
00:29:47,337 –> 00:29:51,464
[michelle_richter]: not clear to me either i just
went and got my a if from f

870
00:29:51,565 –> 00:29:54,549
[michelle_richter]: i three sixty so that i could
be an accredited investment

871
00:29:54,326 –> 00:29:54,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

872
00:29:54,590 –> 00:29:55,150
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

873
00:29:55,595 –> 00:29:55,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

874
00:29:56,052 –> 00:30:01,942
[michelle_richter]: even though what i focus on not
so much investments right it’s it’s de cumulation

875
00:30:01,385 –> 00:30:01,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

876
00:30:02,563 –> 00:30:08,773
[michelle_richter]: but but you know so so my
thinking is i went and got my insurance

877
00:30:08,873 –> 00:30:09,314
[michelle_richter]: license

878
00:30:09,386 –> 00:30:09,589
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

879
00:30:09,394 –> 00:30:14,245
[michelle_richter]: fret and i got my have my
r i a set up i have a

880
00:30:14,305 –> 00:30:21,195
[michelle_richter]: sixty five and i am now i
have the a i f so so my

881
00:30:21,275 –> 00:30:25,297
[michelle_richter]: thinking is i’m covered under the umbrella
of those

882
00:30:25,142 –> 00:30:25,163
[mark_chamberlain]: m

883
00:30:25,357 –> 00:30:25,678
[michelle_richter]: things

884
00:30:25,736 –> 00:30:25,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

885
00:30:25,878 –> 00:30:32,449
[michelle_richter]: but i have no clarity whatsoever as
to legally how this domain develops i know

886
00:30:32,670 –> 00:30:33,271
[michelle_richter]: only that

887
00:30:33,464 –> 00:30:33,624
[paul_tyler]: yeah

888
00:30:33,812 –> 00:30:34,593
[michelle_richter]: experts is

889
00:30:34,649 –> 00:30:34,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

890
00:30:34,673 –> 00:30:39,287
[michelle_richter]: needed around inuits delivered to plan advisors

891
00:30:39,566 –> 00:30:39,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

892
00:30:39,567 –> 00:30:42,531
[michelle_richter]: so one of those is going to
be what qualifies

893
00:30:43,066 –> 00:30:43,556
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

894
00:30:43,132 –> 00:30:44,854
[michelle_richter]: mark and me to be able to
do that

895
00:30:44,966 –> 00:30:44,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

896
00:30:45,114 –> 00:30:52,306
[paul_tyler]: well interesting discussion now i think if
i come from the institutional side to say

897
00:30:52,807 –> 00:30:58,061
[paul_tyler]: know ramsey i expect this advisor to
be an r a seems like a very

898
00:30:58,182 –> 00:31:04,999
[paul_tyler]: logical response however you know michelle my
experience has been you know

899
00:31:05,156 –> 00:31:05,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

900
00:31:05,800 –> 00:31:07,641
[paul_tyler]: there’s not such there’s no such thing
as

901
00:31:07,595 –> 00:31:07,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

902
00:31:07,701 –> 00:31:09,203
[paul_tyler]: a good compensation

903
00:31:10,235 –> 00:31:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

904
00:31:10,354 –> 00:31:13,559
[paul_tyler]: perfect compensation planet really what i do
see is that

905
00:31:13,475 –> 00:31:13,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

906
00:31:13,599 –> 00:31:16,083
[paul_tyler]: the compensation has got to match up
with the results

907
00:31:16,016 –> 00:31:16,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

908
00:31:17,205 –> 00:31:18,608
[paul_tyler]: you want um

909
00:31:19,387 –> 00:31:19,689
[michelle_richter]: yes

910
00:31:20,150 –> 00:31:20,711
[paul_tyler]: you know if you think

911
00:31:20,726 –> 00:31:20,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:31:20,771 –> 00:31:25,197
[paul_tyler]: of these companies as as a pyramid
you got some very high

913
00:31:25,256 –> 00:31:25,679
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

914
00:31:25,357 –> 00:31:31,423
[paul_tyler]: earners with probably very large for once
balances at the very top economically a

915
00:31:32,645 –> 00:31:32,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:31:32,724 –> 00:31:33,625
[paul_tyler]: a fiduciary

917
00:31:33,056 –> 00:31:33,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

918
00:31:33,845 –> 00:31:38,369
[paul_tyler]: like uh annual contract probably makes sense
you know it’s it’s you know i’ve got

919
00:31:38,449 –> 00:31:43,493
[paul_tyler]: high end services ramsey remember co i
think you know

920
00:31:45,436 –> 00:31:45,960
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were great

921
00:31:45,734 –> 00:31:50,318
[paul_tyler]: i’ve lost lost track of this service
great service if you happen to be have

922
00:31:50,619 –> 00:31:52,921
[paul_tyler]: an v p title now challenge s
you go

923
00:31:52,973 –> 00:31:53,196
[mark_chamberlain]: uh

924
00:31:52,981 –> 00:32:01,368
[paul_tyler]: down down the pyramid ah they mean
these people be service michelle if if

925
00:32:01,835 –> 00:32:01,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

926
00:32:02,449 –> 00:32:06,915
[paul_tyler]: you know they’re only earning two percent
off of a twenty five thousand dollars throwing

927
00:32:07,176 –> 00:32:07,517
[paul_tyler]: balance

928
00:32:07,406 –> 00:32:07,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

929
00:32:07,597 –> 00:32:08,681
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s the answer there

930
00:32:08,756 –> 00:32:08,997
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

931
00:32:09,216 –> 00:32:11,340
[michelle_richter]: well the answer is

932
00:32:11,495 –> 00:32:11,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

933
00:32:11,501 –> 00:32:14,850
[michelle_richter]: not a um it’s not

934
00:32:15,146 –> 00:32:15,388
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

935
00:32:15,695 –> 00:32:15,876
[michelle_richter]: um

936
00:32:16,166 –> 00:32:16,471
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

937
00:32:16,257 –> 00:32:22,135
[michelle_richter]: in my view so you know i
or at least a um is to me

938
00:32:22,436 –> 00:32:28,446
[michelle_richter]: not my preferred building methodology for the
wealth management domain i do think it’s appropriate

939
00:32:28,486 –> 00:32:32,152
[michelle_richter]: for the asset management domain but that’s
going to get us off on a whole

940
00:32:32,212 –> 00:32:32,372
[michelle_richter]: other

941
00:32:32,256 –> 00:32:32,457
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

942
00:32:32,492 –> 00:32:35,678
[michelle_richter]: track and i still have it i
a tribe to deliver so

943
00:32:35,906 –> 00:32:35,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

944
00:32:36,419 –> 00:32:37,160
[michelle_richter]: um you know

945
00:32:37,343 –> 00:32:38,003
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

946
00:32:37,441 –> 00:32:37,541
[michelle_richter]: but

947
00:32:37,835 –> 00:32:37,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

948
00:32:37,941 –> 00:32:38,282
[michelle_richter]: it does

949
00:32:38,389 –> 00:32:38,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

950
00:32:38,402 –> 00:32:43,170
[michelle_richter]: tie into what i want to talk
about which is the predominance of a um

951
00:32:43,330 –> 00:32:51,170
[michelle_richter]: as a building method it does cause
distortion in thinking that i’m going to elucidate

952
00:32:51,691 –> 00:32:54,741
[michelle_richter]: pretty deeply should i go for it

953
00:32:55,319 –> 00:32:55,861
[ramsey_d_smith]: rock and roll

954
00:32:57,155 –> 00:33:03,385
[michelle_richter]: okay um this you all are get
very excited right now because i’m about to

955
00:33:03,906 –> 00:33:12,404
[michelle_richter]: go bananas and i am going to
issue called arms i’m looking for members of

956
00:33:12,785 –> 00:33:13,607
[michelle_richter]: the society

957
00:33:13,145 –> 00:33:13,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:33:13,647 –> 00:33:21,652
[michelle_richter]: of actuaries nata i r i and
any other industry group that you can think

959
00:33:21,772 –> 00:33:28,443
[michelle_richter]: of that might find this topic of
concern i am about to make a big

960
00:33:28,543 –> 00:33:34,839
[michelle_richter]: bold assert and which i will back
up with three less big assertions so big

961
00:33:34,940 –> 00:33:43,415
[michelle_richter]: bold assertion number one is that non
codification of verb sales and insurance means that

962
00:33:43,595 –> 00:33:46,740
[michelle_richter]: intellectual property cannot have value

963
00:33:46,526 –> 00:33:47,576
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

964
00:33:46,840 –> 00:33:52,992
[michelle_richter]: and insurance i g i will defend
why this is true with the following three

965
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,653
[michelle_richter]: assertions

966
00:33:53,585 –> 00:33:53,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

967
00:33:54,955 –> 00:34:00,785
[michelle_richter]: mark this moment in the podcast so
that you can tag the people that you

968
00:34:00,865 –> 00:34:04,271
[michelle_richter]: know from the industry organizations i just
mentioned

969
00:34:04,406 –> 00:34:04,648
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

970
00:34:04,772 –> 00:34:07,609
[michelle_richter]: and tell them when to start listening
it’s right here

971
00:34:07,463 –> 00:34:07,725
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

972
00:34:08,275 –> 00:34:14,826
[michelle_richter]: a non codification of verb sales and
insurance means i p can’t have value why

973
00:34:15,807 –> 00:34:22,221
[michelle_richter]: well the above mentioned fact is true
because of the intersection between how products

974
00:34:22,136 –> 00:34:22,378
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

975
00:34:22,642 –> 00:34:29,909
[michelle_richter]: sell and how trademark law works i
will explain further in a moment sertion number

976
00:34:29,989 –> 00:34:37,563
[michelle_richter]: three is that intellectual property having value
is fundamental to the functioning of a capitalistic

977
00:34:37,703 –> 00:34:48,360
[michelle_richter]: system assertion number four in a deutalized
world where insurance manufacturing is now entirely vertically

978
00:34:48,481 –> 00:34:57,335
[michelle_richter]: disintegrated from distribution i p can only
come to have value by codifying insurance advisement

979
00:34:57,896 –> 00:35:06,339
[michelle_richter]: as a scalable overseeable nationally regulated discipline
so now i move to proving assertion number

980
00:35:06,539 –> 00:35:08,702
[michelle_richter]: one i p has no value in
my

981
00:35:08,756 –> 00:35:09,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

982
00:35:08,803 –> 00:35:15,634
[michelle_richter]: domain by proving assertions to through four
starting with assertion two part one how to

983
00:35:15,674 –> 00:35:20,671
[michelle_richter]: product sell to understand this we need
first to define the word product and then

984
00:35:20,711 –> 00:35:28,095
[michelle_richter]: the word sell products are nounce in
the context of insurance and financial services products

985
00:35:28,296 –> 00:35:38,092
[michelle_richter]: are issuable containers and their distribution is
highly regulated products are issuable legale contracts within

986
00:35:38,272 –> 00:35:40,936
[michelle_richter]: which intellectual property can be imbedded

987
00:35:41,156 –> 00:35:42,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

988
00:35:41,678 –> 00:35:42,619
[michelle_richter]: and in exchange

989
00:35:42,146 –> 00:35:42,367
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

990
00:35:42,719 –> 00:35:50,633
[michelle_richter]: for the distribution of which compensation can
be paid to a financial professional in respect

991
00:35:50,853 –> 00:35:58,727
[michelle_richter]: of either but never concurrently a or
b a is from inside the noun in

992
00:35:58,847 –> 00:36:03,958
[michelle_richter]: direct respect to sale thereof this refers
to agency and brokerage

993
00:36:04,590 –> 00:36:04,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: her

994
00:36:04,780 –> 00:36:10,870
[michelle_richter]: where as b is charged upon the
a u a or a um there formed

995
00:36:11,411 –> 00:36:12,072
[michelle_richter]: following a

996
00:36:12,056 –> 00:36:12,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

997
00:36:12,192 –> 00:36:18,313
[michelle_richter]: products introduction to an advised portfolio thus
b refers to the r i a channel

998
00:36:19,465 –> 00:36:21,789
[michelle_richter]: now that we know what product means
we move on to sell

999
00:36:21,956 –> 00:36:22,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:36:22,791 –> 00:36:24,494
[michelle_richter]: sell means the exchange

1001
00:36:24,065 –> 00:36:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1002
00:36:24,654 –> 00:36:30,323
[michelle_richter]: of remuneration in direct respect to x
x is a verb in the r a

1003
00:36:30,444 –> 00:36:33,070
[michelle_richter]: channel and it’s a noun in the
agent

1004
00:36:33,019 –> 00:36:33,121
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1005
00:36:33,431 –> 00:36:42,196
[michelle_richter]: broker channels wholesalers are people who so
routinely sell holes that we can describe

1006
00:36:41,857 –> 00:36:41,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1007
00:36:42,256 –> 00:36:47,265
[michelle_richter]: their identity by adding an r to
the end of the verb that they retain

1008
00:36:47,405 –> 00:36:53,947
[michelle_richter]: we perform analogy runners routine ly run
we don’t call someone a runner who once

1009
00:36:54,027 –> 00:36:57,872
[michelle_richter]: ran across across the street so whole
sailors

1010
00:36:58,257 –> 00:36:58,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: now

1011
00:36:58,413 –> 00:37:04,720
[michelle_richter]: sell nouns holes are nouns the human
mind can’t conceive of the premise of a

1012
00:37:04,760 –> 00:37:12,125
[michelle_richter]: whole verb therefore whole sailors are people
who sell holes holes must be nouns and

1013
00:37:12,286 –> 00:37:17,717
[michelle_richter]: non sell only when they have a
whole sailor selling them whole sailors

1014
00:37:17,606 –> 00:37:17,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1015
00:37:17,837 –> 00:37:23,466
[michelle_richter]: work for either a non manufacturer or
a noun seller and organization that sells nouns

1016
00:37:23,907 –> 00:37:29,276
[michelle_richter]: will not switch witch now and it
has its whole sailers focused on selling unless

1017
00:37:29,376 –> 00:37:36,488
[michelle_richter]: the new non is more profitable than
is the incumbent now portfolio that’s the reason

1018
00:37:36,608 –> 00:37:43,700
[michelle_richter]: why a product concept cannot have value
because is valuable about the product the non

1019
00:37:44,381 –> 00:37:52,114
[michelle_richter]: is the sellers prior investment in manufacturing
and or wholesaling infrastructure not the clever intellectual

1020
00:37:52,194 –> 00:37:55,165
[michelle_richter]: prof property that does not deliver a
higher

1021
00:37:55,136 –> 00:37:55,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1022
00:37:55,225 –> 00:38:02,041
[michelle_richter]: profit margin than the incumbent so that’s
the first half of assertion to it goes

1023
00:38:02,181 –> 00:38:04,525
[michelle_richter]: way quicker from here so stick with
me okay

1024
00:38:04,805 –> 00:38:04,826
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1025
00:38:05,046 –> 00:38:06,648
[michelle_richter]: it’s like lightning from here okay

1026
00:38:07,188 –> 00:38:07,289
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1027
00:38:07,971 –> 00:38:14,582
[michelle_richter]: the second half of assertion to is
about tree marking trademark trade marking and the

1028
00:38:14,642 –> 00:38:19,991
[michelle_richter]: application of trade marking is different for
a brand name than it is for intellectual

1029
00:38:20,051 –> 00:38:25,059
[michelle_richter]: property the how you defend a brand
name in court with a trademark it’s really

1030
00:38:25,139 –> 00:38:27,483
[michelle_richter]: easy but defending intellectual property

1031
00:38:27,581 –> 00:38:27,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1032
00:38:27,683 –> 00:38:33,092
[michelle_richter]: the trade mark has more challenge to
it in this case i’m talking about intellectual

1033
00:38:33,173 –> 00:38:41,244
[michelle_richter]: property protection uh it requires the defense
of a trademark requires the intellectual property to

1034
00:38:41,304 –> 00:38:50,117
[michelle_richter]: be now embedable whereas intellectual property that
is service marked requires the i p to

1035
00:38:50,197 –> 00:38:55,924
[michelle_richter]: be verb impedible if you google trademark
definition

1036
00:38:55,916 –> 00:38:57,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah oh

1037
00:38:57,875 –> 00:39:00,419
[michelle_richter]: you see that when applied to intellectual

1038
00:39:00,326 –> 00:39:02,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1039
00:39:00,499 –> 00:39:03,404
[michelle_richter]: property defense as differs from brand defense

1040
00:39:03,596 –> 00:39:03,899
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1041
00:39:04,025 –> 00:39:09,013
[michelle_richter]: that the definition of this word requires
the ip owner to be

1042
00:39:08,975 –> 00:39:08,996
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1043
00:39:09,193 –> 00:39:17,085
[michelle_richter]: able to either manufacture or to sell
remember what sell means from the above the

1044
00:39:17,165 –> 00:39:18,126
[michelle_richter]: non right

1045
00:39:18,591 –> 00:39:18,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

1046
00:39:18,746 –> 00:39:25,412
[michelle_richter]: so product concepts can’t have value because
of the intersection between how product sells and

1047
00:39:25,753 –> 00:39:33,632
[michelle_richter]: how trade mark law is applied okay
insurance is the liability or contra asset minimization

1048
00:39:33,732 –> 00:39:34,013
[michelle_richter]: field

1049
00:39:34,523 –> 00:39:34,788
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1050
00:39:34,745 –> 00:39:38,290
[michelle_richter]: what just stick with me on insurance

1051
00:39:38,396 –> 00:39:38,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1052
00:39:38,411 –> 00:39:40,434
[michelle_richter]: is about minimizing consumers

1053
00:39:40,226 –> 00:39:40,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1054
00:39:40,494 –> 00:39:42,758
[michelle_richter]: liabilities okay and i’m not going

1055
00:39:42,685 –> 00:39:42,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1056
00:39:42,778 –> 00:39:47,326
[michelle_richter]: to bring up the contraascit thing again
super complicated so i mean shorten it by

1057
00:39:47,426 –> 00:39:56,887
[michelle_richter]: saying liability minimization insurance advisor is not
a defined term financial advisor is a defined

1058
00:39:57,027 –> 00:39:58,909
[michelle_richter]: term and it means

1059
00:39:58,954 –> 00:39:59,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1060
00:39:59,330 –> 00:40:06,647
[michelle_richter]: person who holds the authority to sell
verbs this means person has an r a

1061
00:40:06,768 –> 00:40:14,685
[michelle_richter]: affiliation r i s sell verbs only
agents and brokers sell nouns only financial advisers

1062
00:40:14,826 –> 00:40:17,971
[michelle_richter]: provide ongoing asset maximization advising

1063
00:40:18,176 –> 00:40:18,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1064
00:40:18,532 –> 00:40:19,914
[michelle_richter]: and they frequently receive

1065
00:40:19,856 –> 00:40:20,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1066
00:40:19,994 –> 00:40:22,671
[michelle_richter]: thee compensation v a u m

1067
00:40:24,296 –> 00:40:24,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1068
00:40:24,379 –> 00:40:32,051
[michelle_richter]: this asset maximization advising is a service
p imbedded in services for example managed account

1069
00:40:32,212 –> 00:40:33,594
[michelle_richter]: services provided by

1070
00:40:33,626 –> 00:40:35,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1071
00:40:33,754 –> 00:40:38,442
[michelle_richter]: morning star ink are service markable thus
they have been

1072
00:40:38,413 –> 00:40:38,554
[ramsey_d_smith]: sir

1073
00:40:38,602 –> 00:40:46,092
[michelle_richter]: service marked not trade markable and not
trade marked because their verbs which are services

1074
00:40:46,613 –> 00:40:57,288
[michelle_richter]: not none absent codifying insurance advisement so
that insurance professionals can also sell herbs by

1075
00:40:57,368 –> 00:40:57,849
[michelle_richter]: which i am

1076
00:40:57,987 –> 00:40:58,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

1077
00:40:57,989 –> 00:41:04,100
[michelle_richter]: saying absent popularizing ability approach like benefits
under advisement

1078
00:41:04,166 –> 00:41:04,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1079
00:41:04,701 –> 00:41:07,926
[michelle_richter]: or income under advisement there cannot

1080
00:41:07,856 –> 00:41:08,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1081
00:41:08,046 –> 00:41:12,514
[michelle_richter]: be valued to intellectual property in our
field because you cannot

1082
00:41:12,536 –> 00:41:13,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1083
00:41:12,594 –> 00:41:17,842
[michelle_richter]: defend it v s service mark because
there is no framework for scalablyselling services

1084
00:41:17,786 –> 00:41:17,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1085
00:41:17,963 –> 00:41:22,871
[michelle_richter]: in our domain and you can’t sell
it as a noun because an organization can

1086
00:41:23,011 –> 00:41:29,462
[michelle_richter]: only monetize a trade mark and insure
from previous investment in manufacturing and distribution and

1087
00:41:29,542 –> 00:41:35,412
[michelle_richter]: encompant only does this if the product
is more profitable than it’s existing portfolio that’s

1088
00:41:35,512 –> 00:41:36,033
[michelle_richter]: not likely

1089
00:41:35,831 –> 00:41:36,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1090
00:41:36,153 –> 00:41:39,398
[michelle_richter]: in today’s feconte its environment so again
because

1091
00:41:39,386 –> 00:41:40,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1092
00:41:39,458 –> 00:41:40,580
[michelle_richter]: my prior words are true

1093
00:41:41,006 –> 00:41:41,288
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1094
00:41:41,201 –> 00:41:42,884
[michelle_richter]: not having a scale able advisement

1095
00:41:42,902 –> 00:41:42,922
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1096
00:41:42,964 –> 00:41:44,647
[michelle_richter]: frame for liability reduction

1097
00:41:44,952 –> 00:41:44,972
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1098
00:41:45,088 –> 00:41:50,437
[michelle_richter]: means intellectual property that is service marked
in our field also cannot value because it

1099
00:41:50,477 –> 00:41:56,266
[michelle_richter]: cannot be sold so concludes my proof
of assertion to and i’ll move on to

1100
00:41:56,307 –> 00:42:01,316
[michelle_richter]: assertion three and less there are questions
of which i’m sure there are ready oh

1101
00:42:02,944 –> 00:42:04,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is a this is a complex

1102
00:42:04,127 –> 00:42:04,250
[michelle_richter]: ah

1103
00:42:04,446 –> 00:42:06,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: geometric proof you’re taking us through here

1104
00:42:07,475 –> 00:42:08,742
[michelle_richter]: it is i understand that

1105
00:42:08,714 –> 00:42:08,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: europe

1106
00:42:08,842 –> 00:42:10,129
[michelle_richter]: but i’m doing it for a reason

1107
00:42:10,430 –> 00:42:11,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re a mute paul

1108
00:42:11,487 –> 00:42:11,790
[michelle_richter]: i want

1109
00:42:13,257 –> 00:42:13,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1110
00:42:13,325 –> 00:42:18,053
[michelle_richter]: i want the industry organizations that are
or flagged to hear this

1111
00:42:18,446 –> 00:42:18,814
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1112
00:42:18,594 –> 00:42:20,898
[michelle_richter]: re play it they’re gonna have to
play it a lot of times

1113
00:42:20,834 –> 00:42:21,914
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1114
00:42:20,986 –> 00:42:21,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1115
00:42:21,018 –> 00:42:21,719
[michelle_richter]: to get the logic

1116
00:42:22,595 –> 00:42:22,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1117
00:42:22,861 –> 00:42:23,221
[michelle_richter]: and so

1118
00:42:23,156 –> 00:42:23,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1119
00:42:23,522 –> 00:42:24,504
[michelle_richter]: i’m going really

1120
00:42:24,505 –> 00:42:24,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1121
00:42:24,604 –> 00:42:25,786
[michelle_richter]: in depth in what the logic

1122
00:42:25,870 –> 00:42:25,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1123
00:42:25,906 –> 00:42:29,634
[michelle_richter]: is so that it can’t be said
she just at a high level

1124
00:42:29,585 –> 00:42:29,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1125
00:42:29,794 –> 00:42:32,079
[michelle_richter]: said you know something crazy and she’s
always saying

1126
00:42:32,000 –> 00:42:32,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1127
00:42:32,139 –> 00:42:33,602
[michelle_richter]: something crazy so i can just

1128
00:42:33,524 –> 00:42:33,727
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1129
00:42:33,722 –> 00:42:35,807
[michelle_richter]: kind of like whip it off you

1130
00:42:35,745 –> 00:42:35,926
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1131
00:42:35,847 –> 00:42:39,055
[michelle_richter]: know like i’m going deep into it
because my words are true

1132
00:42:39,014 –> 00:42:39,277
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1133
00:42:39,296 –> 00:42:42,243
[michelle_richter]: and they have implications to society more
broadly

1134
00:42:42,334 –> 00:42:44,898
[paul_tyler]: well yeah and i just a couple

1135
00:42:45,596 –> 00:42:45,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1136
00:42:45,779 –> 00:42:46,260
[paul_tyler]: one question

1137
00:42:46,043 –> 00:42:46,284
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1138
00:42:46,360 –> 00:42:46,681
[paul_tyler]: a couple of

1139
00:42:46,685 –> 00:42:46,827
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1140
00:42:46,721 –> 00:42:47,702
[paul_tyler]: observations one is

1141
00:42:47,655 –> 00:42:47,778
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1142
00:42:48,945 –> 00:42:50,728
[paul_tyler]: can we put this in our show
notes or do you have this on a

1143
00:42:50,768 –> 00:42:52,450
[paul_tyler]: website where we can put a link
to it because

1144
00:42:52,355 –> 00:42:52,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1145
00:42:52,490 –> 00:42:53,312
[paul_tyler]: people need to read this

1146
00:42:53,325 –> 00:42:53,468
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1147
00:42:53,773 –> 00:42:54,681
[paul_tyler]: they will have to e is

1148
00:42:54,837 –> 00:42:55,321
[michelle_richter]: i’ll give it to you

1149
00:42:55,374 –> 00:42:56,195
[paul_tyler]: okay good

1150
00:42:56,537 –> 00:42:56,658
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1151
00:42:56,675 –> 00:42:56,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1152
00:42:56,896 –> 00:42:59,060
[paul_tyler]: other observation is you know these words
are

1153
00:42:59,366 –> 00:42:59,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1154
00:43:00,021 –> 00:43:05,591
[paul_tyler]: complicated couple o things i heard in
their agents versus advisors because even more complicated

1155
00:43:05,631 –> 00:43:06,813
[paul_tyler]: michele than that like for instance

1156
00:43:07,717 –> 00:43:07,779
[michelle_richter]: ah

1157
00:43:07,894 –> 00:43:12,562
[paul_tyler]: state of connecticut does not allow us
to talk about agents is that interesting as

1158
00:43:12,662 –> 00:43:17,931
[paul_tyler]: a independent product manufacture we have to
call them independent producers does anybody

1159
00:43:17,912 –> 00:43:17,953
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1160
00:43:17,991 –> 00:43:18,131
[paul_tyler]: know

1161
00:43:18,175 –> 00:43:18,360
[michelle_richter]: huh

1162
00:43:18,192 –> 00:43:19,654
[paul_tyler]: that does anybody under and they

1163
00:43:19,685 –> 00:43:19,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1164
00:43:19,694 –> 00:43:20,616
[paul_tyler]: do consume now

1165
00:43:21,015 –> 00:43:21,137
[michelle_richter]: no

1166
00:43:21,677 –> 00:43:22,960
[paul_tyler]: but that you are an independent

1167
00:43:22,816 –> 00:43:22,918
[michelle_richter]: no

1168
00:43:23,220 –> 00:43:27,988
[paul_tyler]: you know ramsey is an independent producer
so just footnote that there are some very

1169
00:43:28,148 –> 00:43:28,489
[paul_tyler]: strange

1170
00:43:28,195 –> 00:43:28,663
[michelle_richter]: damn

1171
00:43:28,569 –> 00:43:30,732
[paul_tyler]: vagaries in existing

1172
00:43:30,545 –> 00:43:30,786
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1173
00:43:31,193 –> 00:43:31,982
[paul_tyler]: league structures

1174
00:43:32,378 –> 00:43:32,680
[michelle_richter]: and not

1175
00:43:33,164 –> 00:43:33,389
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1176
00:43:33,455 –> 00:43:33,795
[michelle_richter]: that’s the

1177
00:43:33,806 –> 00:43:34,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

1178
00:43:33,855 –> 00:43:37,020
[michelle_richter]: whole point i mean it’s you know
our field is state regulated

1179
00:43:37,004 –> 00:43:37,347
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1180
00:43:37,101 –> 00:43:39,184
[michelle_richter]: and every state has a different impression

1181
00:43:38,904 –> 00:43:38,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1182
00:43:39,324 –> 00:43:40,486
[michelle_richter]: of what our behavior

1183
00:43:40,454 –> 00:43:41,234
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1184
00:43:40,546 –> 00:43:43,972
[michelle_richter]: is supposed to look like and so
because it’s not a nationally

1185
00:43:43,685 –> 00:43:43,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1186
00:43:44,072 –> 00:43:44,633
[michelle_richter]: regulated

1187
00:43:44,497 –> 00:43:44,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1188
00:43:44,733 –> 00:43:46,307
[michelle_richter]: field you can’t get scale able

1189
00:43:46,955 –> 00:43:47,197
[paul_tyler]: right

1190
00:43:48,215 –> 00:43:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1191
00:43:48,425 –> 00:43:52,789
[michelle_richter]: but since but because of demutualization now

1192
00:43:52,856 –> 00:43:52,957
[paul_tyler]: ah

1193
00:43:53,771 –> 00:43:57,898
[michelle_richter]: it’s no longer the case that distribution
and manufacturing are in the same

1194
00:43:57,867 –> 00:43:57,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1195
00:43:57,998 –> 00:43:58,799
[michelle_richter]: organization

1196
00:43:58,946 –> 00:43:59,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1197
00:43:59,480 –> 00:44:02,726
[michelle_richter]: so i’m not sure that the i’m
sure

1198
00:44:02,735 –> 00:44:03,001
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

1199
00:44:02,866 –> 00:44:05,110
[michelle_richter]: that state regulation of products

1200
00:44:04,676 –> 00:44:05,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1201
00:44:05,390 –> 00:44:06,712
[michelle_richter]: is has merit

1202
00:44:06,944 –> 00:44:08,294
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1203
00:44:07,313 –> 00:44:09,337
[michelle_richter]: i’m less certain that state regulation of

1204
00:44:09,335 –> 00:44:09,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1205
00:44:09,374 –> 00:44:09,741
[paul_tyler]: okay

1206
00:44:09,397 –> 00:44:13,964
[michelle_richter]: distribution remains the most meritorious method of
oversight

1207
00:44:14,004 –> 00:44:14,186
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1208
00:44:14,276 –> 00:44:14,517
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1209
00:44:14,727 –> 00:44:19,767
[michelle_richter]: given that those entities no longer live
with each other no

1210
00:44:20,446 –> 00:44:22,109
[paul_tyler]: interesting ay that’s a whole nother podcast

1211
00:44:21,926 –> 00:44:21,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1212
00:44:23,527 –> 00:44:23,729
[michelle_richter]: yes

1213
00:44:24,112 –> 00:44:24,412
[paul_tyler]: the other

1214
00:44:24,301 –> 00:44:24,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1215
00:44:24,553 –> 00:44:25,735
[paul_tyler]: observation i love

1216
00:44:25,685 –> 00:44:25,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1217
00:44:25,815 –> 00:44:29,281
[paul_tyler]: your concept of income under management however

1218
00:44:29,516 –> 00:44:29,819
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1219
00:44:29,521 –> 00:44:33,307
[paul_tyler]: man my head starts to spend because
think of any one of our products g

1220
00:44:33,488 –> 00:44:33,688
[paul_tyler]: is that

1221
00:44:33,656 –> 00:44:34,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1222
00:44:33,708 –> 00:44:38,196
[paul_tyler]: the you know i’m not expecting is
that the guaranteed income off of the product

1223
00:44:38,376 –> 00:44:39,818
[paul_tyler]: is this the potential

1224
00:44:39,875 –> 00:44:40,019
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1225
00:44:39,899 –> 00:44:41,942
[paul_tyler]: income based on you mark you know

1226
00:44:41,985 –> 00:44:43,427
[michelle_richter]: it’s the max of

1227
00:44:43,484 –> 00:44:43,747
[paul_tyler]: yea

1228
00:44:44,008 –> 00:44:52,682
[michelle_richter]: the guaranteed benefit made available through the
product structure or dolls translation metric that was

1229
00:44:53,003 –> 00:44:53,784
[michelle_richter]: interim final

1230
00:44:53,756 –> 00:44:54,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1231
00:44:54,065 –> 00:44:54,185
[michelle_richter]: dan

1232
00:44:54,224 –> 00:44:54,508
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1233
00:44:54,425 –> 00:44:57,891
[michelle_richter]: i think became final guidance on second
quarter twenty twenty

1234
00:44:57,725 –> 00:44:57,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1235
00:44:57,951 –> 00:44:58,692
[michelle_richter]: two statements

1236
00:44:58,346 –> 00:44:58,879
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1237
00:44:59,253 –> 00:44:59,414
[michelle_richter]: that

1238
00:44:59,426 –> 00:44:59,749
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1239
00:44:59,554 –> 00:45:01,337
[michelle_richter]: translated assets to income

1240
00:45:01,706 –> 00:45:02,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1241
00:45:01,838 –> 00:45:04,402
[michelle_richter]: that would be the appropriate method by
which to

1242
00:45:04,405 –> 00:45:04,526
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1243
00:45:04,502 –> 00:45:05,023
[michelle_richter]: accomplish

1244
00:45:04,826 –> 00:45:05,212
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1245
00:45:05,564 –> 00:45:06,206
[michelle_richter]: a building base

1246
00:45:06,146 –> 00:45:06,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1247
00:45:06,306 –> 00:45:07,492
[michelle_richter]: where income under management

1248
00:45:09,566 –> 00:45:09,892
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1249
00:45:12,490 –> 00:45:12,591
[michelle_richter]: so

1250
00:45:12,566 –> 00:45:12,707
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1251
00:45:13,415 –> 00:45:17,582
[michelle_richter]: it should be considered in my view
and in particular it should be considered because

1252
00:45:17,822 –> 00:45:21,909
[michelle_richter]: aria has retirement income in the name
is

1253
00:45:21,837 –> 00:45:21,857
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1254
00:45:22,009 –> 00:45:23,431
[michelle_richter]: not about maximization

1255
00:45:23,045 –> 00:45:23,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1256
00:45:23,491 –> 00:45:24,092
[michelle_richter]: of assets

1257
00:45:23,734 –> 00:45:24,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1258
00:45:24,373 –> 00:45:25,535
[michelle_richter]: everybody complain is

1259
00:45:25,616 –> 00:45:25,778
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1260
00:45:25,635 –> 00:45:29,842
[michelle_richter]: that d c is focused exclusively on
acid accumulation

1261
00:45:29,987 –> 00:45:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1262
00:45:30,343 –> 00:45:35,351
[michelle_richter]: and you want to know why it’s
because of the method by which compensation occurs

1263
00:45:35,852 –> 00:45:36,092
[michelle_richter]: right

1264
00:45:35,936 –> 00:45:36,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1265
00:45:36,934 –> 00:45:41,274
[michelle_richter]: like it always is right everywhere in
humanity

1266
00:45:41,285 –> 00:45:41,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1267
00:45:41,536 –> 00:45:42,261
[michelle_richter]: that’s the truth

1268
00:45:43,085 –> 00:45:43,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1269
00:45:43,425 –> 00:45:47,270
[michelle_richter]: so you know if we want something
different and we continue to do the same

1270
00:45:47,350 –> 00:45:52,367
[michelle_richter]: thing we experience the definition of crazy
so

1271
00:45:52,376 –> 00:45:52,597
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1272
00:45:52,567 –> 00:45:55,519
[michelle_richter]: in order to do to accomplish something
different we must do

1273
00:45:55,526 –> 00:45:56,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1274
00:45:55,639 –> 00:45:56,322
[michelle_richter]: something different

1275
00:45:57,575 –> 00:45:57,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1276
00:45:59,065 –> 00:46:03,672
[michelle_richter]: my third assertion is that the impossibility
of intellectual property

1277
00:46:03,716 –> 00:46:03,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1278
00:46:03,772 –> 00:46:10,504
[michelle_richter]: having value in my field is an
offense about which utter outrage is merited it

1279
00:46:10,564 –> 00:46:10,624
[michelle_richter]: is

1280
00:46:10,646 –> 00:46:10,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1281
00:46:10,844 –> 00:46:18,457
[michelle_richter]: i direct affront to the very principles
of capitalism capitalism as a governing frame relies

1282
00:46:18,637 –> 00:46:25,589
[michelle_richter]: heavily upon intellectual property being protectable and
mont is able so as to encourage invention

1283
00:46:26,186 –> 00:46:26,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1284
00:46:26,390 –> 00:46:30,898
[michelle_richter]: thus i question why is mine the
soul field in this

1285
00:46:30,785 –> 00:46:30,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1286
00:46:30,998 –> 00:46:36,487
[michelle_richter]: country to which capitalism is not permitted
to apply on why are other members of

1287
00:46:36,587 –> 00:46:41,856
[michelle_richter]: my community not apoplectic about my true
words consider the

1288
00:46:41,825 –> 00:46:42,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1289
00:46:41,936 –> 00:46:49,088
[michelle_richter]: implications that not codifying verb sales in
our domain has now that post secure annuities

1290
00:46:49,268 –> 00:46:56,480
[michelle_richter]: are permissible in plans plan advisors like
all other faduciaries in america are inherently taught

1291
00:46:56,580 –> 00:47:04,213
[michelle_richter]: that asset maximization is the only valid
lens through which financial advisement can occur yet

1292
00:47:04,494 –> 00:47:09,843
[michelle_richter]: i believe that financials occur not only
on the left side of the consumer balance

1293
00:47:09,923 –> 00:47:16,173
[michelle_richter]: sheet but all so on their income
statement their statement of net worth their cash

1294
00:47:16,253 –> 00:47:16,434
[michelle_richter]: flow

1295
00:47:16,376 –> 00:47:16,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1296
00:47:16,574 –> 00:47:18,918
[michelle_richter]: statement and the right side

1297
00:47:18,686 –> 00:47:18,948
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1298
00:47:19,018 –> 00:47:20,681
[michelle_richter]: of their balance sheet which

1299
00:47:20,524 –> 00:47:20,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1300
00:47:20,741 –> 00:47:23,225
[michelle_richter]: is where insurance plays plan

1301
00:47:23,156 –> 00:47:24,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1302
00:47:23,366 –> 00:47:25,818
[michelle_richter]: advisors don’t know annuities and vice

1303
00:47:25,676 –> 00:47:26,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1304
00:47:25,919 –> 00:47:31,211
[michelle_richter]: versa advisors can’t even begin to imagine
why we insurance

1305
00:47:30,795 –> 00:47:30,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1306
00:47:31,271 –> 00:47:36,400
[michelle_richter]: people believe our solutions have value because
they are taught to see the world through

1307
00:47:36,440 –> 00:47:38,343
[michelle_richter]: the lens of asset maximization

1308
00:47:37,916 –> 00:47:38,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1309
00:47:38,844 –> 00:47:44,373
[michelle_richter]: in there not taught about liability minimization
as a valid entry point to a consumer

1310
00:47:44,473 –> 00:47:45,395
[michelle_richter]: finance world view

1311
00:47:45,695 –> 00:47:45,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1312
00:47:46,517 –> 00:47:47,959
[michelle_richter]: annuities in d c will

1313
00:47:47,906 –> 00:47:48,152
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1314
00:47:48,140 –> 00:47:51,385
[michelle_richter]: only take off if we band together
to fight for their ace

1315
00:47:51,905 –> 00:47:51,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1316
00:47:52,407 –> 00:47:53,088
[michelle_richter]: actuaries

1317
00:47:52,611 –> 00:47:52,632
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1318
00:47:53,208 –> 00:47:56,053
[michelle_richter]: for example used to have a role
in asset

1319
00:47:56,126 –> 00:47:57,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1320
00:47:56,133 –> 00:47:57,956
[michelle_richter]: liability matching when we

1321
00:47:57,905 –> 00:47:57,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1322
00:47:58,196 –> 00:48:00,941
[michelle_richter]: as a society had defined benefit pension
plans

1323
00:48:00,845 –> 00:48:00,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1324
00:48:01,902 –> 00:48:06,408
[michelle_richter]: but now in d c there isn’t
a natural spot for an actuary in d

1325
00:48:06,628 –> 00:48:06,648
[michelle_richter]: c

1326
00:48:06,905 –> 00:48:06,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1327
00:48:06,968 –> 00:48:07,348
[michelle_richter]: because

1328
00:48:07,556 –> 00:48:07,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1329
00:48:07,809 –> 00:48:14,235
[michelle_richter]: liability consideration is not yet required so
as to advise in d c s d

1330
00:48:14,455 –> 00:48:23,951
[michelle_richter]: c again naturally emphasizes asset maximization so
the society of actuaries nata and iri must

1331
00:48:24,192 –> 00:48:28,879
[michelle_richter]: all strongly consider the possibly ity that
my words might be true and if they

1332
00:48:28,979 –> 00:48:31,723
[michelle_richter]: feel they might be they need to
begin acting

1333
00:48:31,525 –> 00:48:31,646
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1334
00:48:31,983 –> 00:48:34,056
[michelle_richter]: yesterday representatives

1335
00:48:33,866 –> 00:48:34,049
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1336
00:48:34,196 –> 00:48:36,320
[michelle_richter]: of any of these industry organizations

1337
00:48:36,446 –> 00:48:38,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1338
00:48:36,560 –> 00:48:40,507
[michelle_richter]: or other organizations that can help change
the circumstances

1339
00:48:40,316 –> 00:48:40,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1340
00:48:40,627 –> 00:48:43,912
[michelle_richter]: i have just described are invited to
email me at

1341
00:48:44,195 –> 00:48:44,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1342
00:48:44,213 –> 00:48:48,300
[michelle_richter]: m rector f s at g mail
dot com and request a

1343
00:48:48,296 –> 00:48:48,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1344
00:48:48,380 –> 00:48:50,844
[michelle_richter]: death that further explains this perspective

1345
00:48:50,906 –> 00:48:51,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1346
00:48:51,245 –> 00:48:53,689
[michelle_richter]: and the dangers that follow logically therefrom

1347
00:48:54,418 –> 00:48:54,479
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

1348
00:48:54,590 –> 00:48:59,799
[michelle_richter]: lastly for this diatribe i hold and
and advisement should be a national field again

1349
00:48:59,979 –> 00:49:05,268
[michelle_richter]: it is not about the non placement
it is about contextual advisement it is not

1350
00:49:05,348 –> 00:49:11,478
[michelle_richter]: persacorrelated to an individual contract the way
some state insurance law allows annuity consulting to

1351
00:49:11,558 –> 00:49:13,862
[michelle_richter]: a car that does not make sense
to be

1352
00:49:13,886 –> 00:49:14,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1353
00:49:13,942 –> 00:49:20,133
[michelle_richter]: state regulated should be policed similarly to
how r s are overseen achieving this framework

1354
00:49:20,273 –> 00:49:25,822
[michelle_richter]: is my career goal twenty seven years
remain until i begin taking social security at

1355
00:49:25,902 –> 00:49:31,932
[michelle_richter]: age seventy it thus follows logically that
i will not stop truthfully communicating my concerns

1356
00:49:32,013 –> 00:49:34,429
[michelle_richter]: on these matters for at least twenty
seven more years

1357
00:49:34,586 –> 00:49:34,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1358
00:49:35,616 –> 00:49:37,915
[michelle_richter]: or until it’s solved so

1359
00:49:38,036 –> 00:49:38,359
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1360
00:49:38,436 –> 00:49:41,000
[michelle_richter]: i thank you so much for your
patients and listening to me

1361
00:49:40,955 –> 00:49:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1362
00:49:41,080 –> 00:49:41,761
[michelle_richter]: through all of that

1363
00:49:41,748 –> 00:49:43,090
[bruno_caron]: oh

1364
00:49:41,841 –> 00:49:44,586
[michelle_richter]: i know it was a lot and
i know

1365
00:49:44,576 –> 00:49:44,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1366
00:49:44,866 –> 00:49:47,751
[michelle_richter]: you suffered but but i think

1367
00:49:47,726 –> 00:49:48,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1368
00:49:48,092 –> 00:49:49,274
[michelle_richter]: i think my words are true

1369
00:49:49,458 –> 00:49:50,268
[bruno_caron]: oh

1370
00:49:49,534 –> 00:49:50,908
[michelle_richter]: right time scared they might be

1371
00:49:51,318 –> 00:49:51,543
[bruno_caron]: oh

1372
00:49:51,716 –> 00:49:52,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1373
00:49:51,965 –> 00:49:52,911
[michelle_richter]: so i feel that

1374
00:49:53,088 –> 00:49:54,018
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1375
00:49:53,234 –> 00:49:54,261
[michelle_richter]: they should be considered

1376
00:49:54,686 –> 00:49:55,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1377
00:49:55,475 –> 00:49:56,398
[michelle_richter]: thank you for giving me

1378
00:49:56,456 –> 00:49:56,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1379
00:49:56,779 –> 00:49:57,501
[michelle_richter]: the audience to

1380
00:49:57,498 –> 00:49:57,699
[bruno_caron]: oh

1381
00:49:57,541 –> 00:49:58,103
[michelle_richter]: share that with

1382
00:49:59,818 –> 00:50:01,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: well thank you for sharing your thoughts

1383
00:50:01,236 –> 00:50:01,617
[michelle_richter]: esto

1384
00:50:01,538 –> 00:50:01,698
[bruno_caron]: thank

1385
00:50:01,560 –> 00:50:01,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: michelle

1386
00:50:01,778 –> 00:50:01,938
[bruno_caron]: you

1387
00:50:04,966 –> 00:50:05,127
[michelle_richter]: yes

1388
00:50:05,961 –> 00:50:06,082
[bruno_caron]: it’s

1389
00:50:06,086 –> 00:50:07,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1390
00:50:08,624 –> 00:50:08,684
[bruno_caron]: we

1391
00:50:08,685 –> 00:50:08,926
[michelle_richter]: oh

1392
00:50:09,044 –> 00:50:11,326
[bruno_caron]: already knew that there was never a
dull moment with

1393
00:50:11,266 –> 00:50:11,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1394
00:50:11,295 –> 00:50:14,565
[michelle_richter]: oh

1395
00:50:11,386 –> 00:50:11,486
[bruno_caron]: you

1396
00:50:14,600 –> 00:50:16,683
[bruno_caron]: but you prove that once more one
more time

1397
00:50:17,115 –> 00:50:18,348
[michelle_richter]: uh

1398
00:50:17,344 –> 00:50:17,605
[bruno_caron]: uh

1399
00:50:18,035 –> 00:50:18,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: h right

1400
00:50:18,874 –> 00:50:18,915
[michelle_richter]: uh

1401
00:50:19,127 –> 00:50:20,450
[bruno_caron]: i have a feeling we just went

1402
00:50:20,456 –> 00:50:20,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1403
00:50:20,510 –> 00:50:22,894
[bruno_caron]: back to basically college to logic

1404
00:50:22,706 –> 00:50:22,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1405
00:50:22,954 –> 00:50:23,354
[bruno_caron]: classes

1406
00:50:23,415 –> 00:50:25,605
[michelle_richter]: oh

1407
00:50:23,455 –> 00:50:25,618
[bruno_caron]: philosophy cal classes low

1408
00:50:25,445 –> 00:50:25,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1409
00:50:25,738 –> 00:50:26,620
[bruno_caron]: classes math

1410
00:50:26,715 –> 00:50:26,977
[michelle_richter]: oh

1411
00:50:26,720 –> 00:50:29,685
[bruno_caron]: classes accounting classes um

1412
00:50:30,126 –> 00:50:30,247
[michelle_richter]: es

1413
00:50:31,076 –> 00:50:31,583
[mark_chamberlain]: hm

1414
00:50:31,308 –> 00:50:31,388
[bruno_caron]: and

1415
00:50:31,435 –> 00:50:31,803
[michelle_richter]: that’s right

1416
00:50:33,146 –> 00:50:34,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1417
00:50:33,612 –> 00:50:34,012
[bruno_caron]: i always

1418
00:50:34,496 –> 00:50:35,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1419
00:50:34,834 –> 00:50:35,915
[bruno_caron]: i always like the analogy

1420
00:50:35,576 –> 00:50:35,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1421
00:50:35,935 –> 00:50:37,137
[bruno_caron]: between the balance sheet in the end

1422
00:50:37,076 –> 00:50:37,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1423
00:50:37,378 –> 00:50:40,323
[bruno_caron]: statement but you bring it a step
forward

1424
00:50:40,106 –> 00:50:40,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1425
00:50:40,423 –> 00:50:44,550
[bruno_caron]: you know a step further with with
the right hand side of the balance sheet

1426
00:50:44,630 –> 00:50:45,251
[bruno_caron]: the net worth

1427
00:50:45,266 –> 00:50:45,286
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1428
00:50:45,612 –> 00:50:46,233
[bruno_caron]: the cash little

1429
00:50:46,256 –> 00:50:46,419
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1430
00:50:46,273 –> 00:50:46,673
[bruno_caron]: statement

1431
00:50:47,246 –> 00:50:47,488
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1432
00:50:47,915 –> 00:50:53,905
[bruno_caron]: and you know and in such an
eloquent way so i hope the the stake

1433
00:50:53,946 –> 00:50:54,326
[bruno_caron]: holders

1434
00:50:54,729 –> 00:50:54,893
[ramsey_d_smith]: kay

1435
00:50:54,767 –> 00:50:56,690
[bruno_caron]: will make it to the right stake
holders

1436
00:50:56,486 –> 00:50:56,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1437
00:50:57,091 –> 00:50:57,251
[bruno_caron]: and

1438
00:50:57,356 –> 00:50:58,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1439
00:50:58,413 –> 00:50:59,335
[bruno_caron]: we’ll definitely push for that

1440
00:51:00,815 –> 00:51:02,216
[michelle_richter]: thank you thank you

1441
00:51:02,195 –> 00:51:02,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1442
00:51:02,396 –> 00:51:08,683
[michelle_richter]: so much you guys really elevate the
dialogue in our industry i appreciate the work

1443
00:51:08,763 –> 00:51:09,824
[michelle_richter]: that you do so much

1444
00:51:11,336 –> 00:51:13,602
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah all you’re on mute

1445
00:51:13,455 –> 00:51:13,864
[michelle_richter]: oh

1446
00:51:15,509 –> 00:51:15,529
[bruno_caron]: m

1447
00:51:15,836 –> 00:51:16,016
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1448
00:51:16,676 –> 00:51:16,837
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1449
00:51:17,614 –> 00:51:19,938
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m telling it’s two thousand
twenty two is

1450
00:51:19,946 –> 00:51:20,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1451
00:51:20,018 –> 00:51:21,541
[paul_tyler]: almost okay two thousand twenty three

1452
00:51:21,545 –> 00:51:21,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1453
00:51:21,621 –> 00:51:22,262
[paul_tyler]: that will not be

1454
00:51:22,196 –> 00:51:22,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1455
00:51:22,322 –> 00:51:24,666
[paul_tyler]: a word but yeah michell

1456
00:51:24,555 –> 00:51:24,797
[michelle_richter]: uh

1457
00:51:24,846 –> 00:51:24,926
[paul_tyler]: no

1458
00:51:25,343 –> 00:51:25,363
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1459
00:51:25,467 –> 00:51:25,888
[paul_tyler]: no no

1460
00:51:25,865 –> 00:51:25,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1461
00:51:26,008 –> 00:51:26,309
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1462
00:51:26,276 –> 00:51:27,000
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1463
00:51:26,349 –> 00:51:26,389
[paul_tyler]: i

1464
00:51:26,434 –> 00:51:26,475
[michelle_richter]: uh

1465
00:51:26,449 –> 00:51:27,290
[paul_tyler]: think look

1466
00:51:27,785 –> 00:51:27,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1467
00:51:28,292 –> 00:51:28,632
[paul_tyler]: it takes

1468
00:51:28,433 –> 00:51:28,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1469
00:51:28,693 –> 00:51:29,474
[paul_tyler]: a lot to to

1470
00:51:29,541 –> 00:51:29,723
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

1471
00:51:29,634 –> 00:51:30,194
[paul_tyler]: change this

1472
00:51:30,095 –> 00:51:30,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1473
00:51:30,295 –> 00:51:31,716
[paul_tyler]: world and you know your your

1474
00:51:32,546 –> 00:51:32,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1475
00:51:32,997 –> 00:51:33,758
[paul_tyler]: wow to

1476
00:51:34,046 –> 00:51:34,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1477
00:51:34,639 –> 00:51:37,662
[paul_tyler]: provide more retirement security for people especially
the war

1478
00:51:37,646 –> 00:51:37,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1479
00:51:37,762 –> 00:51:38,482
[paul_tyler]: place is

1480
00:51:40,579 –> 00:51:41,539
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah yeah

1481
00:51:42,709 –> 00:51:42,789
[paul_tyler]: it

1482
00:51:43,526 –> 00:51:43,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1483
00:51:44,471 –> 00:51:47,496
[paul_tyler]: requires a lot of different organizations

1484
00:51:47,186 –> 00:51:47,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1485
00:51:47,577 –> 00:51:48,638
[paul_tyler]: and legal structures

1486
00:51:48,206 –> 00:51:48,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1487
00:51:48,739 –> 00:51:50,341
[paul_tyler]: to change to make sense

1488
00:51:51,755 –> 00:51:51,899
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1489
00:51:51,924 –> 00:51:56,912
[paul_tyler]: especially when you think of a typical
company may have employes in all fifty states

1490
00:51:58,014 –> 00:51:59,977
[paul_tyler]: fifty different state laws may apply

1491
00:52:01,565 –> 00:52:01,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1492
00:52:01,969 –> 00:52:02,535
[michelle_richter]: hm

1493
00:52:02,161 –> 00:52:03,563
[paul_tyler]: securities and exchange

1494
00:52:03,239 –> 00:52:04,890
[michelle_richter]: there is no commissions in arica

1495
00:52:04,994 –> 00:52:05,760
[paul_tyler]: uh

1496
00:52:05,216 –> 00:52:05,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1497
00:52:05,815 –> 00:52:07,743
[michelle_richter]: so how are you going to pay
the insurance expert

1498
00:52:07,955 –> 00:52:07,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1499
00:52:08,496 –> 00:52:09,780
[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s this is a challenge

1500
00:52:09,515 –> 00:52:09,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1501
00:52:09,800 –> 00:52:09,860
[paul_tyler]: so

1502
00:52:10,256 –> 00:52:10,461
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1503
00:52:11,216 –> 00:52:11,898
[paul_tyler]: question for you is

1504
00:52:12,185 –> 00:52:12,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1505
00:52:13,284 –> 00:52:17,110
[paul_tyler]: yes we untangle you know the gordian
not here

1506
00:52:17,254 –> 00:52:17,295
[michelle_richter]: uh

1507
00:52:18,392 –> 00:52:23,661
[paul_tyler]: if i’m a typical employe five years
ten years from now how is the experience

1508
00:52:23,741 –> 00:52:26,711
[paul_tyler]: different then it is today

1509
00:52:29,276 –> 00:52:32,441
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s much more likely that
more plans

1510
00:52:32,213 –> 00:52:32,233
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1511
00:52:32,622 –> 00:52:40,615
[michelle_richter]: provide access to a financial professional like
through the employer preveded and financial professional think

1512
00:52:40,695 –> 00:52:40,815
[michelle_richter]: it’s

1513
00:52:41,105 –> 00:52:41,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1514
00:52:41,497 –> 00:52:46,285
[michelle_richter]: that’s already becoming a thing and i
think there’ll be more of that

1515
00:52:46,934 –> 00:52:47,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

1516
00:52:47,707 –> 00:52:52,595
[michelle_richter]: and frankly there a lot of plan
advisors who are interested in entering into wealth

1517
00:52:52,695 –> 00:52:53,937
[michelle_richter]: management domain

1518
00:52:53,876 –> 00:52:53,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1519
00:52:54,098 –> 00:52:55,119
[michelle_richter]: so they’re going to gladly

1520
00:52:54,986 –> 00:52:55,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1521
00:52:55,219 –> 00:52:59,647
[michelle_richter]: provide it and that’s going to be
a threat to my people unless my people

1522
00:53:00,027 –> 00:53:00,268
[michelle_richter]: start

1523
00:53:00,146 –> 00:53:00,449
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1524
00:53:00,648 –> 00:53:01,891
[michelle_richter]: moving towards the d c

1525
00:53:02,015 –> 00:53:02,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1526
00:53:02,111 –> 00:53:06,728
[michelle_richter]: space right and how do they how
to you know have our place set the

1527
00:53:06,768 –> 00:53:07,030
[michelle_richter]: table

1528
00:53:07,354 –> 00:53:07,554
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1529
00:53:07,371 –> 00:53:07,552
[michelle_richter]: right

1530
00:53:08,015 –> 00:53:11,100
[paul_tyler]: well bruno we literally are at the
top of the hour

1531
00:53:12,285 –> 00:53:12,506
[michelle_richter]: uh

1532
00:53:12,703 –> 00:53:12,823
[paul_tyler]: what

1533
00:53:13,414 –> 00:53:13,455
[michelle_richter]: uh

1534
00:53:13,445 –> 00:53:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1535
00:53:14,065 –> 00:53:17,290
[paul_tyler]: last final words observations

1536
00:53:19,259 –> 00:53:19,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

1537
00:53:19,274 –> 00:53:20,264
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1538
00:53:19,860 –> 00:53:20,001
[bruno_caron]: boy

1539
00:53:20,546 –> 00:53:21,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1540
00:53:20,822 –> 00:53:23,627
[bruno_caron]: i have a list of questions i
don’t even go through my notes and some

1541
00:53:23,667 –> 00:53:23,967
[bruno_caron]: of the things

1542
00:53:24,015 –> 00:53:27,034
[michelle_richter]: yea

1543
00:53:24,248 –> 00:53:26,832
[bruno_caron]: i wanted to talk about and i
wrote more

1544
00:53:27,005 –> 00:53:27,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1545
00:53:27,173 –> 00:53:30,097
[bruno_caron]: it’s usually the other way around so
i don’t even know where to start

1546
00:53:29,986 –> 00:53:30,474
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1547
00:53:30,238 –> 00:53:32,321
[bruno_caron]: to even to

1548
00:53:32,295 –> 00:53:32,477
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1549
00:53:32,421 –> 00:53:33,223
[bruno_caron]: even to even

1550
00:53:33,304 –> 00:53:33,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1551
00:53:33,423 –> 00:53:34,966
[bruno_caron]: end this but

1552
00:53:34,995 –> 00:53:35,217
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1553
00:53:35,346 –> 00:53:36,047
[bruno_caron]: i’ll simply say

1554
00:53:36,005 –> 00:53:36,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1555
00:53:36,148 –> 00:53:37,971
[bruno_caron]: thank you and we also

1556
00:53:37,895 –> 00:53:37,916
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1557
00:53:38,071 –> 00:53:38,712
[bruno_caron]: very very

1558
00:53:38,615 –> 00:53:38,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1559
00:53:38,752 –> 00:53:39,373
[bruno_caron]: much appreciate

1560
00:53:39,476 –> 00:53:39,824
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1561
00:53:39,513 –> 00:53:44,682
[bruno_caron]: all all you do for the industry
and such uh passionate and eloquent

1562
00:53:44,595 –> 00:53:44,796
[michelle_richter]: oh

1563
00:53:45,063 –> 00:53:46,906
[bruno_caron]: and rigorous would the

1564
00:53:46,871 –> 00:53:47,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1565
00:53:47,247 –> 00:53:47,347
[bruno_caron]: you

1566
00:53:47,276 –> 00:53:47,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1567
00:53:47,367 –> 00:53:50,874
[bruno_caron]: know kind of a word to you
so thank you

1568
00:53:51,998 –> 00:53:53,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’ll just i’ll just

1569
00:53:53,145 –> 00:53:53,955
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1570
00:53:53,160 –> 00:53:58,428
[ramsey_d_smith]: echo that you know thank you michelle
look you you’re you’re willing to break some

1571
00:53:58,488 –> 00:54:00,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: glass which i think is always important

1572
00:54:01,005 –> 00:54:01,085
[paul_tyler]: ah

1573
00:54:01,512 –> 00:54:02,058
[bruno_caron]: hm

1574
00:54:01,553 –> 00:54:03,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and

1575
00:54:03,285 –> 00:54:04,245
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1576
00:54:04,198 –> 00:54:06,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and i’ll tell the audience like

1577
00:54:06,978 –> 00:54:07,222
[bruno_caron]: oh

1578
00:54:07,503 –> 00:54:12,311
[ramsey_d_smith]: well two things one is a huge
believer i’m a huge believer in the potential

1579
00:54:12,372 –> 00:54:16,759
[ramsey_d_smith]: for implantanuities and in the d the
importance of annuities in the d c space

1580
00:54:16,799 –> 00:54:19,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: to solve the retirement problem and you
know

1581
00:54:20,088 –> 00:54:20,375
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1582
00:54:20,205 –> 00:54:21,046
[ramsey_d_smith]: basically putting my money

1583
00:54:20,958 –> 00:54:21,220
[bruno_caron]: oh

1584
00:54:21,066 –> 00:54:25,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: where my mouth is and you know
as i as i take this journey a

1585
00:54:25,493 –> 00:54:29,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of times when when want to
find out what’s going on one of my

1586
00:54:29,540 –> 00:54:31,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: very first calls is to michelle rector
so

1587
00:54:32,358 –> 00:54:32,559
[bruno_caron]: oh

1588
00:54:32,425 –> 00:54:35,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would say that to anybody in
the audience you would you would do well

1589
00:54:35,931 –> 00:54:39,758
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to reach out to michelle if
you if you want to become

1590
00:54:39,854 –> 00:54:41,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

1591
00:54:40,019 –> 00:54:43,609
[ramsey_d_smith]: more up to speed on on really
what is a very sort of complex space

1592
00:54:43,689 –> 00:54:45,314
[ramsey_d_smith]: so thank you for playing that role
michele

1593
00:54:47,125 –> 00:54:47,246
[michelle_richter]: oh

1594
00:54:47,416 –> 00:54:47,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1595
00:54:47,969 –> 00:54:48,712
[michelle_richter]: thank you so much

1596
00:54:49,119 –> 00:54:50,180
[paul_tyler]: michelle thank you mark

1597
00:54:50,006 –> 00:54:50,936
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1598
00:54:50,281 –> 00:54:50,741
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1599
00:54:51,236 –> 00:54:51,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1600
00:54:51,563 –> 00:54:52,745
[paul_tyler]: hey bruno what i would suggest

1601
00:54:52,766 –> 00:54:52,927
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1602
00:54:52,825 –> 00:54:56,571
[paul_tyler]: doing is let’s put your questions in
the linkedon post once this thing goes alive

1603
00:54:56,730 –> 00:54:56,915
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1604
00:54:56,932 –> 00:54:57,252
[paul_tyler]: michelle

1605
00:54:57,198 –> 00:54:57,622
[bruno_caron]: oh

1606
00:54:57,412 –> 00:54:57,993
[paul_tyler]: let’s let’s conti

1607
00:54:58,106 –> 00:54:58,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1608
00:54:58,414 –> 00:55:00,057
[paul_tyler]: mark let’s continue the discussion there

1609
00:55:00,106 –> 00:55:00,675
[michelle_richter]: absolutely

1610
00:55:00,568 –> 00:55:01,739
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1611
00:55:01,700 –> 00:55:05,646
[paul_tyler]: lot of threads to pull here a
lot of dimensions i think

1612
00:55:05,576 –> 00:55:05,720
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1613
00:55:05,706 –> 00:55:06,207
[paul_tyler]: that we could

1614
00:55:06,605 –> 00:55:06,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1615
00:55:07,021 –> 00:55:07,142
[michelle_richter]: yep

1616
00:55:07,850 –> 00:55:09,993
[paul_tyler]: explore please

1617
00:55:10,446 –> 00:55:14,192
[michelle_richter]: i am an interesting follow on link
down so

1618
00:55:14,155 –> 00:55:17,564
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1619
00:55:14,433 –> 00:55:14,914
[michelle_richter]: consider

1620
00:55:14,716 –> 00:55:15,228
[bruno_caron]: hm

1621
00:55:14,974 –> 00:55:15,054
[michelle_richter]: it

1622
00:55:15,348 –> 00:55:15,671
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1623
00:55:15,716 –> 00:55:15,737
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1624
00:55:16,985 –> 00:55:17,167
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1625
00:55:17,462 –> 00:55:17,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1626
00:55:17,478 –> 00:55:18,500
[michelle_richter]: if any part of this

1627
00:55:18,438 –> 00:55:18,639
[bruno_caron]: oh

1628
00:55:18,605 –> 00:55:18,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1629
00:55:18,620 –> 00:55:19,261
[michelle_richter]: was appealing

1630
00:55:19,286 –> 00:55:19,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1631
00:55:19,321 –> 00:55:19,641
[michelle_richter]: to you

1632
00:55:19,754 –> 00:55:21,014
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1633
00:55:20,403 –> 00:55:20,783
[michelle_richter]: you should

1634
00:55:20,817 –> 00:55:20,838
[bruno_caron]: m

1635
00:55:20,863 –> 00:55:21,324
[michelle_richter]: consider

1636
00:55:20,966 –> 00:55:21,187
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1637
00:55:21,464 –> 00:55:21,864
[paul_tyler]: i agree

1638
00:55:21,726 –> 00:55:22,087
[michelle_richter]: allowing

1639
00:55:21,778 –> 00:55:21,980
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1640
00:55:22,127 –> 00:55:22,489
[michelle_richter]: in linked

1641
00:55:22,405 –> 00:55:22,485
[paul_tyler]: no

1642
00:55:22,529 –> 00:55:22,589
[michelle_richter]: in

1643
00:55:22,626 –> 00:55:23,587
[paul_tyler]: i agree so okay

1644
00:55:23,486 –> 00:55:24,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1645
00:55:23,727 –> 00:55:25,010
[paul_tyler]: continue it there we’ll move this

1646
00:55:24,926 –> 00:55:24,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1647
00:55:25,070 –> 00:55:26,712
[paul_tyler]: from audio to text

1648
00:55:26,516 –> 00:55:26,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1649
00:55:26,833 –> 00:55:27,393
[paul_tyler]: on linked in

1650
00:55:28,128 –> 00:55:28,496
[bruno_caron]: oh

1651
00:55:28,395 –> 00:55:31,420
[paul_tyler]: mark michelle thank you ramsey bruno thank
you michelle

1652
00:55:31,796 –> 00:55:31,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1653
00:55:31,821 –> 00:55:34,265
[paul_tyler]: either sent us a link to what
you just read or send us the text

1654
00:55:34,305 –> 00:55:35,166
[paul_tyler]: and we’ll pop it in the

1655
00:55:35,105 –> 00:55:35,266
[michelle_richter]: yes

1656
00:55:35,227 –> 00:55:35,487
[paul_tyler]: notes

1657
00:55:35,428 –> 00:55:35,650
[michelle_richter]: i will

1658
00:55:36,268 –> 00:55:41,537
[paul_tyler]: uh give us feedback you’re listening thank
you for sticking with us give us feedback

1659
00:55:41,818 –> 00:55:46,486
[paul_tyler]: give us questions give us guess suggestions
we definitely listen and

1660
00:55:47,156 –> 00:55:47,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1661
00:55:47,208 –> 00:55:52,302
[paul_tyler]: gettin next week for another great episode
of that annuity show thanks thanks everybody

1662
00:55:53,738 –> 00:55:54,024
[bruno_caron]: thank you

1663
00:55:53,936 –> 00:55:53,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2
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Episode 171: Helping Canadians Retire From Work, Not Life With Fraser Stark

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Can a mutual fund create new income potential for investors by sharing mortality risk? The answer is “yes”, starting in Canada. Fraser Stark, President of the Longevity Retirement Platform for Purpose Financial joins us to talk about his company’s novel product.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.retirewithlongevity.com/

https://www.purpose-unlimited.com/home

https://www.linkedin.com/in/fstark/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:00,780 –> 00:00:02,861
[paul_tyler]: yeah hi this is paul tyler

2
00:00:02,942 –> 00:00:03,226
[bruno_caron]: yeah

3
00:00:03,062 –> 00:00:07,569
[paul_tyler]: and welcome to another episode of that
annuity show and today

4
00:00:07,232 –> 00:00:08,012
[bruno_caron]: oh

5
00:00:08,250 –> 00:00:14,861
[paul_tyler]: we are talking about a very novel
solution for generating retirement and income in canada

6
00:00:15,743 –> 00:00:19,489
[paul_tyler]: okay so we’re goin t have a
lot of interesting interesting questions here today but

7
00:00:19,810 –> 00:00:20,351
[paul_tyler]: before i jump

8
00:00:20,222 –> 00:00:20,242
[bruno_caron]: m

9
00:00:20,451 –> 00:00:21,493
[paul_tyler]: in i want to introduce

10
00:00:21,332 –> 00:00:22,382
[bruno_caron]: oh

11
00:00:21,573 –> 00:00:25,599
[paul_tyler]: our audience to tessa raban marshall who’s
joining us as a host

12
00:00:25,412 –> 00:00:25,856
[bruno_caron]: oh

13
00:00:26,020 –> 00:00:27,162
[paul_tyler]: you know tis a can you tell

14
00:00:27,009 –> 00:00:27,191
[bruno_caron]: yeah

15
00:00:27,243 –> 00:00:29,166
[paul_tyler]: people just a little bit about

16
00:00:29,102 –> 00:00:29,324
[bruno_caron]: oh

17
00:00:29,567 –> 00:00:30,068
[paul_tyler]: yourself

18
00:00:31,378 –> 00:00:33,682
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: sure thanks paul so

19
00:00:34,020 –> 00:00:34,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

20
00:00:34,464 –> 00:00:38,570
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i have about twenty years experience in
the industry and i currently am working to

21
00:00:38,671 –> 00:00:44,712
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: manage the digital platforms and tools for
our retiring and our agents here at na

22
00:00:44,812 –> 00:00:44,994
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: sah

23
00:00:45,572 –> 00:00:45,857
[bruno_caron]: oh

24
00:00:46,150 –> 00:00:50,134
[paul_tyler]: yeah so anyway welcome thanks for thanks
for getting behind the mike this is great

25
00:00:50,514 –> 00:00:50,794
[paul_tyler]: bruno

26
00:00:51,368 –> 00:00:51,792
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

27
00:00:51,535 –> 00:00:54,658
[paul_tyler]: tell us what’s up and who did
you get for us to come on the

28
00:00:54,878 –> 00:00:56,126
[paul_tyler]: show today oh

29
00:00:56,317 –> 00:01:01,065
[bruno_caron]: sure it will be my my pleasure
to to introduce you to fraser stark who

30
00:01:01,125 –> 00:01:09,980
[bruno_caron]: is the president and of longevity retirement
platform at purpose here in here in toronto

31
00:01:10,160 –> 00:01:19,516
[bruno_caron]: ontario canada m fraser has a very
very interesting background obviously extremely focused on the

32
00:01:20,558 –> 00:01:28,571
[bruno_caron]: on the financial services but not just
on the on the financial services but never

33
00:01:29,012 –> 00:01:32,738
[bruno_caron]: we’re very very excited and very pleased
and fraser welcome

34
00:01:33,635 –> 00:01:34,922
[fraser_stark]: thanks for having me on it’s great
to be here

35
00:01:36,713 –> 00:01:44,760
[bruno_caron]: so you know you know my first
question is obviously is in terms of lifetime

36
00:01:44,820 –> 00:01:53,513
[bruno_caron]: income solutions you have academic major academic
bodies that have that i’ve supported this that

37
00:01:53,554 –> 00:02:00,666
[bruno_caron]: i’ve written about it many entrepreneurs including
myself as try to bring this type of

38
00:02:00,726 –> 00:02:04,063
[bruno_caron]: solution and you guys are the

39
00:02:04,058 –> 00:02:04,285
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

40
00:02:04,103 –> 00:02:07,088
[bruno_caron]: first ones to do it you know
over the entire world

41
00:02:08,232 –> 00:02:08,313
[paul_tyler]: no

42
00:02:08,270 –> 00:02:08,951
[bruno_caron]: how did you do it

43
00:02:09,068 –> 00:02:09,788
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

44
00:02:09,895 –> 00:02:10,197
[fraser_stark]: uh

45
00:02:10,013 –> 00:02:11,295
[bruno_caron]: that’s my that’s my question

46
00:02:10,964 –> 00:02:11,005
[fraser_stark]: uh

47
00:02:11,415 –> 00:02:12,717
[bruno_caron]: how how in this world

48
00:02:12,510 –> 00:02:13,710
[paul_tyler]: oh

49
00:02:13,298 –> 00:02:17,987
[bruno_caron]: you know were you able to successfully
launched this this venture

50
00:02:18,830 –> 00:02:19,230
[paul_tyler]: yeah maybe you

51
00:02:19,217 –> 00:02:19,378
[fraser_stark]: yeah

52
00:02:19,250 –> 00:02:22,896
[paul_tyler]: just tell maybe you could phrase just
tell us what it is that would be

53
00:02:22,956 –> 00:02:23,657
[paul_tyler]: great and then

54
00:02:24,155 –> 00:02:25,016
[fraser_stark]: yeah why don’t

55
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[paul_tyler]: how

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[fraser_stark]: i

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[paul_tyler]: do

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[fraser_stark]: start

59
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[paul_tyler]: you

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[fraser_stark]: with

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[paul_tyler]: do

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[fraser_stark]: what

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[paul_tyler]: it

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[fraser_stark]: it is and then and then how
we did it that that

65
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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[fraser_stark]: sounds that sounds excellent

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: so the longevity pension fund is the
world’s first longevity risk pulling in a mutual

69
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[fraser_stark]: fund this is not a new concept
this idea of a variable lifetime income is

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[fraser_stark]: not new you know it’s existed in
europe as tantins for many years canada has

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[fraser_stark]: been experimenting this with this for decades
australia

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: more recently there’s lots of iterations of
it but we found a way to offer

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[fraser_stark]: investors

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: income for life in a way that
their assets are still invested in the market

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[fraser_stark]: and they’re benefiting from market returns and
yet their risk pooling with the other investors

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[fraser_stark]: so we think it’s a

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: great

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: product that fits along it annuities as
part of

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: the possible offering for someone in retirement

85
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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[fraser_stark]: looking to solve

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: that nastiest hardest problem in finance which
is how do you decumulate assets when there’s

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[fraser_stark]: so much uncertainty including most notable

90
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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[fraser_stark]: that idea that

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[fraser_stark]: there’s a huge range of possibilities for
how long you need the assets to last

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[fraser_stark]: for now the way we did that
as an asset manager is we we looked

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[fraser_stark]: at the mutual fund structure in canada
it’s a little bit different than the u

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[fraser_stark]: s but by and law it’s quite
similar and we said how would you have

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[fraser_stark]: to tweak a mutual fund to imbed
longevity risk pulling into this structure and that’s

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[fraser_stark]: exactly what we did in launch last
june

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[paul_tyler]: so you’re not an insurance company correct

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[fraser_stark]: correct that’s important

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[paul_tyler]: okay but you’re

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[paul_tyler]: pulling mortality

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: and what is different again we have
a lot of listeners in the us what’s

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[paul_tyler]: the difference between what you’re doing and
say oh i’ve heard it before paul is

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[paul_tyler]: tar date fund

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[fraser_stark]: yeah of course know a target they
fund is a great product for mixing

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: the risk and return profile of an
investor as they move through different

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: life stages towards retirement and so target
date fund serve that purpose very effectively what

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[fraser_stark]: they don’t do though is once someone
enters retirement they don’t provide risk pooling that

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[fraser_stark]: idea that you know we like to
say our assets are worth more to us

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[fraser_stark]: than a portion of our that’s are
worth more to us while while we’re alive

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[fraser_stark]: than after we passed away and so
what or what our product inherently does it

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[fraser_stark]: creates a trade off for people between
the estate for whatever assets are put into

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[fraser_stark]: this fund and optimizing for sustainable income
while you’re alive so a target day fund

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[fraser_stark]: is a great product and in fact
i think an investor might very well use

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[fraser_stark]: target date funds and then at retirement
put money into the longevity pension fund to

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[fraser_stark]: secure against that risk that

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: they end up being someone who lives
to be a hundred and four or ninety

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[fraser_stark]: six or a hundred and ten we
just don’t know and effectively investors retires investing

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[fraser_stark]: who hold to balance portfolio almost no
matter what the construction

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:05:06,230 –> 00:05:12,199
[fraser_stark]: is in some ways they’re self insured
against their own longevity risk that idea living

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[fraser_stark]: a long life and we’ve given them
away

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: to you know effectively get a type
of pension you know it’s not a registered

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[fraser_stark]: pension in canada but we use word
pension and the title because it is that

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[fraser_stark]: income for life and all of our
actuarial modeling shows that while it’s very blind

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[fraser_stark]: can go up or down with market
conditions and the experienced mortality of the investor

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[fraser_stark]: pool it will always pay and come
for life and so people can rest assured

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[fraser_stark]: that they’re spending more now more income
from this the application to this fund and

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[fraser_stark]: yet there’s no chance that it runs
out of money which is a real possibility

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[fraser_stark]: of someone you know starts with a
million dollars and spends you know seventy thousand

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[fraser_stark]: dollars

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: a year there’s a chance that if
you live into your nineties or past a

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[fraser_stark]: hundred you could run it

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[paul_tyler]: a

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[bruno_caron]: that’s great can you talk a little
bit about that that structure how is it

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[bruno_caron]: how does it work when you know
discuss maybe a few a few scenarios a

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[bruno_caron]: few triggers

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[fraser_stark]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: if i put in as i said
you know some you know some funds we

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[bruno_caron]: all agree that you know it’s not
there’s no one size fits all solution but

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[bruno_caron]: part of any any retires funds say
a hundred thousand dollars at age sixty five

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[bruno_caron]: what happens under various know scenarios

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[fraser_stark]: ah so

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[paul_tyler]: yea

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[fraser_stark]: essentially the key difference between this fund
most other income funds or or balanced funds

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[fraser_stark]: is that it’s redeemed not for its
nave but rather for the last year of

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[fraser_stark]: it now or unpaid capital so unpaid
capital is the amount put in at sixty

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[fraser_stark]: five lasts the distributions

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

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[fraser_stark]: received today and so you know an
investor who puts in a hundred thousand dollars

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[fraser_stark]: as you said bruno and then let’s
say over three years they received twenty thousand

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[fraser_stark]: back

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: and then if they either passed away
or voluntarily just say i’d like to redeem

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[fraser_stark]: these units and that’s a key to
that key benefit to this fund is the

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[fraser_stark]: redeemability they would get back eighty

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: thousand dollars right not let’s just say
the nave had gone from a hundred thousand

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[fraser_stark]: and because it’s paying out income the
nave is now at ninety three they wouldn’t

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[fraser_stark]: get ninety three they get eighty and
the thirteen thousand difference between it three and

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[fraser_stark]: eighty that’s the longevity credits that flow
in and stay in for the benefit of

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[fraser_stark]: the remaining members of their cohort and
we we construct our cohorts on three birth

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[fraser_stark]: years so our oldest cohort

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: that we have investors from is nineteen
forty five to forty seven in cohort one

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[fraser_stark]: court two is nineteen forty eight to
fifty and so on through people that are

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[fraser_stark]: sixty five today who i believe are
born in nineteen fifty seven and every three

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[fraser_stark]: years we add a new cohort as
people in another block of three birth years

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[fraser_stark]: start turning

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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[fraser_stark]: sixty five but that’s the that’s the
risk pulling right so unlike an annuity which

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[fraser_stark]: sits on an insurance company’s balance heat
and they basically say we’ll take we’ll take

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[fraser_stark]: this risk we’ll take your personal longevity
risk and we’ll take the market risk and

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[fraser_stark]: we’ll guarantee you and there’s obviously a
huge variety of annuity structures can’t address them

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[fraser_stark]: all today but under that structure the
insurance company is accepting both market risk and

185
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[fraser_stark]: longevity risk with the longevity pension fund
we as an asset manager are taking on

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[fraser_stark]: neither what’s happening is the longevity risk
of being pooled among the people the investors

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[fraser_stark]: in the pool based on that that
birth year set and the market risk stays

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[fraser_stark]: with them we’ve got portfolio construction that’s
very conservative designed suitable for someone in retirement

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[fraser_stark]: but the market risk stays with them
which means it’s variable it also means they

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[fraser_stark]: benefit from the market risk premium just
the fact market returns are expected to be

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[fraser_stark]: higher than the risk free interest rates
as i said they pull that mortality risk

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[fraser_stark]: so

193
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[fraser_stark]: it’s a great product for someone who
says i’m comfortable with some very ability in

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[fraser_stark]: my payments in return for more flexibility
a higher starting rate and the expectation and

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[fraser_stark]: design that this should rise over time
so we’ve done a ton of modeling we

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[fraser_stark]: work with life works actuarial team on
the modeling and under a wide range of

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[fraser_stark]: economic scenarios you can see that in
most cases but not all cases and that’s

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[fraser_stark]: important this fund raises its distributions over
time but

200
00:09:21,270 –> 00:09:21,990
[paul_tyler]: yeah

201
00:09:21,403 –> 00:09:25,590
[fraser_stark]: you know an investor in some of
the downside scenarios an investor who’s in a

202
00:09:25,650 –> 00:09:28,995
[fraser_stark]: traditional balance portfolio they’re going to see
that portfolio decline as well

203
00:09:29,010 –> 00:09:29,173
[paul_tyler]: ye

204
00:09:29,055 –> 00:09:33,202
[fraser_stark]: and they’re prbably gonna have to make
some spending reductions and a very similar thing

205
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[fraser_stark]: is likely

206
00:09:33,902 –> 00:09:34,163
[bruno_caron]: oh

207
00:09:34,024 –> 00:09:36,953
[fraser_stark]: to happen with our after in in
a downside economic scenario

208
00:09:38,341 –> 00:09:42,307
[paul_tyler]: i found the cohort concept really interesting
i read the the footnotes

209
00:09:42,325 –> 00:09:44,185
[fraser_stark]: oh

210
00:09:43,409 –> 00:09:43,549
[paul_tyler]: you’re

211
00:09:43,442 –> 00:09:43,524
[bruno_caron]: ye

212
00:09:43,569 –> 00:09:44,010
[paul_tyler]: marketing for

213
00:09:43,919 –> 00:09:44,040
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: eh

214
00:09:44,070 –> 00:09:45,893
[paul_tyler]: sure you know ts laughing

215
00:09:45,911 –> 00:09:45,932
[bruno_caron]: m

216
00:09:45,973 –> 00:09:49,639
[paul_tyler]: because this is what we live for
the foot notes in these products

217
00:09:49,622 –> 00:09:49,642
[bruno_caron]: m

218
00:09:50,094 –> 00:09:50,235
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

219
00:09:50,200 –> 00:09:50,341
[paul_tyler]: um

220
00:09:50,704 –> 00:09:50,725
[fraser_stark]: m

221
00:09:50,901 –> 00:09:51,022
[paul_tyler]: so

222
00:09:51,521 –> 00:09:51,712
[bruno_caron]: h m

223
00:09:51,723 –> 00:09:53,145
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m born between

224
00:09:52,991 –> 00:09:53,012
[bruno_caron]: m

225
00:09:53,546 –> 00:09:56,110
[paul_tyler]: you know this year and that year
um

226
00:09:56,111 –> 00:09:56,132
[bruno_caron]: m

227
00:09:56,491 –> 00:10:01,962
[paul_tyler]: but it’s now twenty twenty seven is
there any point at which i can and

228
00:10:02,772 –> 00:10:03,622
[paul_tyler]: join that cohort

229
00:10:05,596 –> 00:10:09,823
[fraser_stark]: any investor is eligible to invest in
the fund until their eightieth birthday the day

230
00:10:09,863 –> 00:10:10,143
[fraser_stark]: you turn

231
00:10:10,141 –> 00:10:10,366
[paul_tyler]: okay

232
00:10:10,223 –> 00:10:15,773
[fraser_stark]: at you’re no longer eligible and that’s
because of the evolving nature of the longevity

233
00:10:16,113 –> 00:10:21,923
[fraser_stark]: expectations and visibility into it we didn’t
want a situation where someone could join a

234
00:10:21,983 –> 00:10:25,950
[fraser_stark]: cohort at ninety one knowing that they’re
in good health many of the people that

235
00:10:26,390 –> 00:10:26,871
[fraser_stark]: committed to

236
00:10:26,902 –> 00:10:27,084
[paul_tyler]: yeah

237
00:10:26,931 –> 00:10:31,439
[fraser_stark]: that cohort much earlier perhaps are now
in in different states of health and life

238
00:10:31,479 –> 00:10:38,090
[fraser_stark]: expectancy so anyone up to the day
before they turn eighty is eligible you know

239
00:10:38,150 –> 00:10:43,839
[fraser_stark]: most people are investing much earlier in
there late sixties we also have an accumulation

240
00:10:43,940 –> 00:10:47,265
[fraser_stark]: class of this fund so until some
one sixty five they can invest in the

241
00:10:47,305 –> 00:10:52,013
[fraser_stark]: fund the risk pooling doesn’t yet apply
so it is redeemable at nave making it

242
00:10:52,073 –> 00:10:56,943
[fraser_stark]: behave much more a traditional balance fund
it doesn’t pay income it’s going to grow

243
00:10:57,003 –> 00:10:59,288
[fraser_stark]: the assets with market returns but

244
00:10:59,301 –> 00:10:59,361
[paul_tyler]: so

245
00:10:59,729 –> 00:11:00,110
[fraser_stark]: people are

246
00:11:00,166 –> 00:11:00,307
[paul_tyler]: yeah

247
00:11:00,732 –> 00:11:01,293
[fraser_stark]: sorry ill go ahead

248
00:11:01,601 –> 00:11:05,127
[paul_tyler]: oh no i’m just curious so so
it’s these are almost like bottles

249
00:11:05,162 –> 00:11:05,383
[bruno_caron]: oh

250
00:11:05,187 –> 00:11:06,629
[paul_tyler]: of wine you’re collecting

251
00:11:06,505 –> 00:11:06,928
[fraser_stark]: uh

252
00:11:06,850 –> 00:11:07,030
[paul_tyler]: right

253
00:11:06,932 –> 00:11:08,942
[bruno_caron]: uh

254
00:11:06,982 –> 00:11:07,598
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

255
00:11:07,110 –> 00:11:07,410
[paul_tyler]: except you

256
00:11:07,554 –> 00:11:07,615
[fraser_stark]: uh

257
00:11:07,711 –> 00:11:09,474
[paul_tyler]: you’re the flask

258
00:11:09,153 –> 00:11:09,356
[bruno_caron]: okay

259
00:11:09,497 –> 00:11:09,538
[fraser_stark]: we

260
00:11:09,574 –> 00:11:09,654
[paul_tyler]: is

261
00:11:09,638 –> 00:11:09,719
[fraser_stark]: get

262
00:11:09,734 –> 00:11:09,935
[paul_tyler]: not

263
00:11:09,779 –> 00:11:10,947
[fraser_stark]: better as we age that’s right

264
00:11:11,197 –> 00:11:11,317
[paul_tyler]: yeah

265
00:11:11,273 –> 00:11:11,313
[bruno_caron]: m

266
00:11:11,357 –> 00:11:15,464
[paul_tyler]: the vetaras we age but is there
so much transparency

267
00:11:15,071 –> 00:11:15,092
[bruno_caron]: m

268
00:11:15,544 –> 00:11:19,350
[paul_tyler]: that i could if i m going
into that fun i could say go my

269
00:11:19,451 –> 00:11:23,798
[paul_tyler]: group fraser got a lot of sick
people this is a good deal i’m healthy

270
00:11:24,098 –> 00:11:25,461
[paul_tyler]: i run marathon and

271
00:11:25,495 –> 00:11:25,740
[fraser_stark]: uh

272
00:11:25,622 –> 00:11:25,824
[bruno_caron]: oh

273
00:11:25,904 –> 00:11:26,395
[fraser_stark]: huh

274
00:11:26,823 –> 00:11:31,370
[paul_tyler]: i think i’m gonna outlast the that
that group are is that something you can

275
00:11:31,971 –> 00:11:36,459
[paul_tyler]: you know policy holders are wrong terminology
of investors will investors

276
00:11:36,435 –> 00:11:36,557
[fraser_stark]: yeah

277
00:11:36,499 –> 00:11:37,183
[paul_tyler]: be able to do that

278
00:11:38,625 –> 00:11:41,730
[fraser_stark]: well they won’t know who the other
people in the pool are and that’s important

279
00:11:41,831 –> 00:11:47,821
[fraser_stark]: for privacy reasons you know if you
think of the tontine structure much much maligned

280
00:11:49,383 –> 00:11:52,769
[fraser_stark]: there’s this idea i think the simpsons
popularized this a number of years ago this

281
00:11:52,829 –> 00:11:54,692
[fraser_stark]: idea of incentive to

282
00:11:54,662 –> 00:11:54,884
[bruno_caron]: yeah

283
00:11:54,772 –> 00:11:56,275
[fraser_stark]: take out your fellow members

284
00:11:56,237 –> 00:11:56,258
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

285
00:11:56,335 –> 00:12:00,181
[fraser_stark]: and i mean that’s that sort of
a comical approach but but for obvious reasons

286
00:12:00,212 –> 00:12:00,232
[bruno_caron]: m

287
00:12:00,482 –> 00:12:05,370
[fraser_stark]: the investors in the fund are not
publicly that’s not public to two investors you

288
00:12:05,590 –> 00:12:10,458
[fraser_stark]: asked about transparency we are fully transparent
with how the portfolio is invested how many

289
00:12:10,719 –> 00:12:17,470
[fraser_stark]: investors are in someone’s cohort you know
we track and annually issue a report you

290
00:12:17,510 –> 00:12:17,851
[fraser_stark]: know we’re not

291
00:12:17,798 –> 00:12:18,104
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

292
00:12:17,911 –> 00:12:21,457
[fraser_stark]: required to as a mutual fund but
we want to take on as much of

293
00:12:22,158 –> 00:12:25,864
[fraser_stark]: the apparatus of a pension as possible
and so we’re about to publish an annual

294
00:12:25,924 –> 00:12:31,033
[fraser_stark]: report well give the unit holders the
investors a great deal of information but what’s

295
00:12:31,073 –> 00:12:35,620
[fraser_stark]: going on paul i think what you’re
asking about though is this idea of adverse

296
00:12:35,660 –> 00:12:41,007
[fraser_stark]: selection or selection bias which is a
really interest ing concept here any time you’ve

297
00:12:41,047 –> 00:12:45,291
[fraser_stark]: got a group of people that are
opting into something they may behave somewhat differently

298
00:12:45,791 –> 00:12:49,995
[fraser_stark]: than a group of people that were
selected at random and so there’s a couple

299
00:12:50,056 –> 00:12:54,042
[fraser_stark]: of ways that can that can play
out one is is it only the joggers

300
00:12:54,683 –> 00:12:55,164
[fraser_stark]: so to speak

301
00:12:55,058 –> 00:12:55,281
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

302
00:12:55,244 –> 00:12:55,885
[fraser_stark]: who who joined

303
00:12:55,704 –> 00:12:56,190
[paul_tyler]: right

304
00:12:55,925 –> 00:12:56,787
[fraser_stark]: this or people who know

305
00:12:56,670 –> 00:12:56,992
[paul_tyler]: oh

306
00:12:56,867 –> 00:12:57,568
[fraser_stark]: that their parents

307
00:12:57,338 –> 00:12:58,568
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

308
00:12:58,750 –> 00:12:59,251
[fraser_stark]: both lived

309
00:12:59,643 –> 00:12:59,663
[bruno_caron]: m

310
00:13:00,212 –> 00:13:01,435
[fraser_stark]: well into their nineties for exampl

311
00:13:01,650 –> 00:13:01,972
[paul_tyler]: oh

312
00:13:02,035 –> 00:13:05,099
[fraser_stark]: um that’s one type of selection bias
we are assuming we’ll see some degree of

313
00:13:05,139 –> 00:13:11,446
[fraser_stark]: that we’ve done a lot of research
into the degree to which people people’s perceptions

314
00:13:11,527 –> 00:13:15,954
[fraser_stark]: of their own longevity aligned to what
actually plays out and the answer is it’s

315
00:13:16,034 –> 00:13:21,784
[fraser_stark]: neither it’s neither perfectly true nor perfectly
false it falls in between that people have

316
00:13:21,864 –> 00:13:27,854
[fraser_stark]: some of of a sense another type
of adverse selection you know for people that

317
00:13:27,894 –> 00:13:32,381
[fraser_stark]: want to want to play money ball
here with the fund is around birth years

318
00:13:32,682 –> 00:13:33,563
[fraser_stark]: right and so someone

319
00:13:33,580 –> 00:13:33,764
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: kick

320
00:13:33,603 –> 00:13:40,071
[fraser_stark]: who was born in december nineteen forty
seven is a year and a half younger

321
00:13:40,112 –> 00:13:44,439
[fraser_stark]: than the average and three years younger
than someone that was joran born on january

322
00:13:44,519 –> 00:13:49,168
[fraser_stark]: first nineteen forty five and so that’s
something we are able to watch for early

323
00:13:49,288 –> 00:13:54,701
[fraser_stark]: and we’re not yet seeing any clustering
of investors by birth year we suspected we

324
00:13:54,842 –> 00:13:58,749
[fraser_stark]: might see people skewing to the younger
side it’s not the average

325
00:13:58,538 –> 00:13:58,798
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

326
00:13:59,069 –> 00:14:03,717
[fraser_stark]: of our investors falls squarely on that
mid point of the cohorts birth range so

327
00:14:04,518 –> 00:14:09,035
[fraser_stark]: it will be a long time for
this fun before we have visibility in is

328
00:14:09,095 –> 00:14:14,332
[fraser_stark]: there adverse selection happening on that health
or longevity we’ve assumed there will be some

329
00:14:14,412 –> 00:14:19,200
[fraser_stark]: it’s modeled in and we’ve also done
a lot of pressure testing of our model

330
00:14:19,260 –> 00:14:22,946
[fraser_stark]: to say what if we’re off by
a year whatever by two years whatever were

331
00:14:22,986 –> 00:14:23,948
[fraser_stark]: off by four years

332
00:14:24,188 –> 00:14:24,430
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

333
00:14:24,429 –> 00:14:32,121
[fraser_stark]: an a four year extension of mortality
on a group of thousands of retired investors

334
00:14:32,362 –> 00:14:36,333
[fraser_stark]: is you know that is a real
test and what it shows is the fund

335
00:14:36,608 –> 00:14:37,328
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

336
00:14:36,835 –> 00:14:42,369
[fraser_stark]: still accomplishes its goal it’s still pays
income for life it still rises but of

337
00:14:42,430 –> 00:14:48,059
[fraser_stark]: course by definition it would rise less
steeply in the scenario where they live longer

338
00:14:48,099 –> 00:14:50,884
[fraser_stark]: and that’s just because there’s more payments
to make through the life of the fund

339
00:14:52,912 –> 00:14:59,203
[bruno_caron]: that’s a that’s a very interesting um
segu to you the strategy of the structure

340
00:14:59,764 –> 00:15:04,231
[bruno_caron]: i mean i think it starts at
a fairly low level as you mention the

341
00:15:04,592 –> 00:15:11,624
[bruno_caron]: mortality and the investment risk is on
the the participants shoulders but at the same

342
00:15:11,684 –> 00:15:17,333
[bruno_caron]: time you do you do structure it
in a way that payments go up over

343
00:15:17,413 –> 00:15:22,462
[bruno_caron]: time you could have structure in in
a different way can you talk a little

344
00:15:22,502 –> 00:15:25,647
[bruno_caron]: bit about that that strategy and the
mentality behind

345
00:15:25,440 –> 00:15:25,705
[paul_tyler]: oh

346
00:15:25,747 –> 00:15:29,041
[bruno_caron]: that that that structure yeah

347
00:15:28,865 –> 00:15:33,894
[fraser_stark]: yeah we really wanted to be able
to tell investors that while it’s variable and

348
00:15:33,954 –> 00:15:38,702
[fraser_stark]: it’s important that investors know that right
to education is a key element here to

349
00:15:38,862 –> 00:15:39,223
[fraser_stark]: selling

350
00:15:39,000 –> 00:15:39,262
[paul_tyler]: oh

351
00:15:39,643 –> 00:15:44,431
[fraser_stark]: and marketing this and responsibly um but
we wanted it to rise over time and

352
00:15:44,692 –> 00:15:49,901
[fraser_stark]: what we’ve created is a fun that
in our modeled scenarios i believe the average

353
00:15:49,941 –> 00:15:53,126
[fraser_stark]: is about five or five and a
half percent market return with with a lot

354
00:15:53,206 –> 00:15:59,236
[fraser_stark]: of annual deviation from that and in
the average scenario of these two thousand that

355
00:15:59,276 –> 00:16:05,026
[fraser_stark]: we’ve that we’ve modeled the fund increases
its distributions on a its two per cent

356
00:16:05,086 –> 00:16:09,533
[fraser_stark]: a year which right now doesn’t sound
a lot like inflation levels but if we

357
00:16:09,512 –> 00:16:09,754
[bruno_caron]: uh

358
00:16:09,613 –> 00:16:10,575
[fraser_stark]: rewind six months

359
00:16:10,421 –> 00:16:10,442
[bruno_caron]: h

360
00:16:10,615 –> 00:16:14,041
[fraser_stark]: and think about long term targets at
central banks at what it means is this

361
00:16:14,121 –> 00:16:14,341
[fraser_stark]: fund

362
00:16:14,160 –> 00:16:14,262
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

363
00:16:14,421 –> 00:16:19,310
[fraser_stark]: is designed to keep its payment approximately
with long term targets is not index the

364
00:16:19,350 –> 00:16:23,717
[fraser_stark]: way you can you can formally and
firmly index and annuity but it is it

365
00:16:23,777 –> 00:16:26,121
[fraser_stark]: is designed to raise payments with

366
00:16:26,080 –> 00:16:26,181
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

367
00:16:26,181 –> 00:16:31,830
[fraser_stark]: that with inflation um and with market
returns over time you know when we set

368
00:16:31,931 –> 00:16:36,338
[fraser_stark]: the initial distribution level for the fund
so the retirement age cohort started at six

369
00:16:36,438 –> 00:16:41,867
[fraser_stark]: point one five percent cohort for people
born nineteen fifty four to fifty six when

370
00:16:41,907 –> 00:16:43,709
[fraser_stark]: we launched was people about sixty

371
00:16:43,652 –> 00:16:43,672
[bruno_caron]: m

372
00:16:43,749 –> 00:16:44,931
[fraser_stark]: five to sixty seven years old

373
00:16:44,972 –> 00:16:45,194
[bruno_caron]: oh

374
00:16:45,171 –> 00:16:49,116
[fraser_stark]: we started that at six point one
five per cent now one of the decisions

375
00:16:49,357 –> 00:16:52,923
[fraser_stark]: we had to make at launch was
do we start with a number like that

376
00:16:52,963 –> 00:16:54,625
[fraser_stark]: that’s lower and expected to rise

377
00:16:54,968 –> 00:16:55,112
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

378
00:16:55,427 –> 00:16:59,193
[fraser_stark]: and be transparent about that in the
funds perspective or do we start with a

379
00:16:59,213 –> 00:17:04,000
[fraser_stark]: number that’s higher it sort of has
an equal chance of increasing or decreasing as

380
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:10,410
[fraser_stark]: the fun moves forward and we deliberately
chose former to start lower what that meant

381
00:17:10,550 –> 00:17:14,096
[fraser_stark]: is that when we think about this
like a like a defined benefit pension and

382
00:17:14,136 –> 00:17:19,165
[fraser_stark]: we think about the funding level the
fund started with approximately twenty percent over funding

383
00:17:19,625 –> 00:17:23,211
[fraser_stark]: so it was in a twenty percent
over funded position if you compared you know

384
00:17:23,592 –> 00:17:26,937
[fraser_stark]: the assets in the fund with the
present value of all

385
00:17:26,903 –> 00:17:27,085
[bruno_caron]: yeah

386
00:17:26,978 –> 00:17:31,144
[fraser_stark]: future liabilities and you know it’s not
been the year that any of us in

387
00:17:31,545 –> 00:17:35,231
[fraser_stark]: in financial markets wanted to see but
i think it’s been a year that’s really

388
00:17:35,271 –> 00:17:40,340
[fraser_stark]: validated that strategy because going into twenty
twenty three were in the process with our

389
00:17:40,380 –> 00:17:44,106
[fraser_stark]: annual report of defining what are the
distribution rates and i think a lot of

390
00:17:44,146 –> 00:17:48,033
[fraser_stark]: people are expecting that that we may
have to cut those rates we said it

391
00:17:48,053 –> 00:17:51,679
[fraser_stark]: was a variable fund and in years
when markets don’t do well um you know

392
00:17:51,699 –> 00:17:54,503
[fraser_stark]: there will be a decrease because we
deliberately

393
00:17:54,518 –> 00:17:55,268
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

394
00:17:54,543 –> 00:17:59,632
[fraser_stark]: went in with that buffer we’ve used
a good deal of that buffer across the

395
00:18:00,013 –> 00:18:06,083
[fraser_stark]: the five cohorts differs by cohorts but
all cohorts are going to be holding their

396
00:18:06,123 –> 00:18:10,951
[fraser_stark]: distribution level steady which i think is
really powerful to an investor who who’s put

397
00:18:11,031 –> 00:18:15,178
[fraser_stark]: money into this fund knowing the goal
is to create certainty so they can spend

398
00:18:15,218 –> 00:18:19,765
[fraser_stark]: with confidence in retirement and even though
they acknowledge it’s not an annuity with guaranteed

399
00:18:19,845 –> 00:18:25,271
[fraser_stark]: floor and balance sheet of a of
a major corporation backing it it’s really powerful

400
00:18:25,311 –> 00:18:28,694
[fraser_stark]: that it’s been able to hold so
that’s some of our thinking around distribution levels

401
00:18:29,938 –> 00:18:33,744
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hey frinds are i going a jump
in and ask you how are you marketing

402
00:18:33,785 –> 00:18:37,891
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: this and selling this how are you
finding these cohorts are these members investors through

403
00:18:37,951 –> 00:18:41,217
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: agents direct online tell us a little
bit about the marketing

404
00:18:42,165 –> 00:18:45,410
[fraser_stark]: it’s it’s a great question this is
an investment product

405
00:18:45,212 –> 00:18:45,374
[bruno_caron]: ye

406
00:18:45,490 –> 00:18:46,332
[fraser_stark]: and so it’s sold

407
00:18:46,562 –> 00:18:46,787
[bruno_caron]: oh

408
00:18:47,033 –> 00:18:48,836
[fraser_stark]: where people buy other mutual funds

409
00:18:49,472 –> 00:18:50,132
[bruno_caron]: yeah

410
00:18:49,519 –> 00:18:49,704
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

411
00:18:49,617 –> 00:18:51,761
[fraser_stark]: the accounts that they might use to
buy stocks r t

412
00:18:52,022 –> 00:18:52,622
[bruno_caron]: yeah

413
00:18:52,081 –> 00:18:55,169
[fraser_stark]: f so it’s sold through investment dealers
canada the funds available

414
00:18:54,842 –> 00:18:55,063
[bruno_caron]: oh

415
00:18:55,229 –> 00:19:00,351
[fraser_stark]: to any canadian um you know some
dealers have put this fund

416
00:19:00,242 –> 00:19:00,484
[bruno_caron]: oh

417
00:19:00,451 –> 00:19:03,916
[fraser_stark]: on their shelf and others haven’t you
know one of the surprises we’ve seen is

418
00:19:04,497 –> 00:19:10,047
[fraser_stark]: um you it’s been warmly accepted by
people who think a lot about retirement and

419
00:19:10,067 –> 00:19:12,851
[fraser_stark]: the challenges of it banks have taken
you so far

420
00:19:12,752 –> 00:19:13,016
[bruno_caron]: oh

421
00:19:12,992 –> 00:19:17,599
[fraser_stark]: one of two past banks and other
wealth dealers some have approved some have not

422
00:19:17,880 –> 00:19:22,067
[fraser_stark]: know it’s a pretty novel concept this
idea of a fund that doesn’t redeem a

423
00:19:22,107 –> 00:19:23,830
[fraser_stark]: nave which you know

424
00:19:24,311 –> 00:19:24,332
[bruno_caron]: m

425
00:19:24,451 –> 00:19:28,517
[fraser_stark]: my assets aren’t all mine you know
it’s an interesting concept so there’s some of

426
00:19:28,558 –> 00:19:34,027
[fraser_stark]: that you know the decisioning that goes
on around how much come to pay and

427
00:19:34,107 –> 00:19:39,095
[fraser_stark]: the the income policy that we’ve sat
working with life works um you know i

428
00:19:39,155 –> 00:19:41,740
[fraser_stark]: think that some some are still getting
their head around that

429
00:19:41,822 –> 00:19:42,482
[bruno_caron]: oh

430
00:19:42,240 –> 00:19:45,967
[fraser_stark]: but we’ve got we do direct marketing
to investors and so there is a direct

431
00:19:46,027 –> 00:19:47,890
[fraser_stark]: to investor marketing effort

432
00:19:47,717 –> 00:19:47,738
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

433
00:19:47,930 –> 00:19:48,911
[fraser_stark]: here where we’ve

434
00:19:48,891 –> 00:19:49,358
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

435
00:19:48,972 –> 00:19:54,741
[fraser_stark]: got digital adds t v radio raising
awareness for the product driving education a lot

436
00:19:54,781 –> 00:19:58,247
[fraser_stark]: of our investors are do it yourself
the man they’re buying this through an online

437
00:19:58,487 –> 00:19:59,709
[fraser_stark]: account it’s sold

438
00:19:59,558 –> 00:19:59,741
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

439
00:19:59,750 –> 00:20:03,396
[fraser_stark]: as a mutual fund it it’s not
available as an e t f and that’s

440
00:20:03,556 –> 00:20:08,424
[fraser_stark]: because it’s not designed to be traded
the way you can easily buy and sell

441
00:20:08,484 –> 00:20:12,290
[fraser_stark]: an it’s it’s more of a product
that though though an investment

442
00:20:12,317 –> 00:20:12,338
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

443
00:20:12,351 –> 00:20:15,876
[fraser_stark]: product is meant to be bought and
held for years even though you’ve got the

444
00:20:15,916 –> 00:20:21,167
[fraser_stark]: ability to redeem it days weeks months
later for our investors in the d umulation

445
00:20:21,227 –> 00:20:26,127
[fraser_stark]: class pill sixty five its it’s better
to not so it’s both through investors directly

446
00:20:26,327 –> 00:20:31,966
[fraser_stark]: it’s through their wealth advisors and we’re
seeing growing adoption by investment advisors in canada

447
00:20:32,566 –> 00:20:36,190
[fraser_stark]: and then finally it’s now available as
part of workplace programs you know so any

448
00:20:36,270 –> 00:20:42,536
[fraser_stark]: company that’s running a d c and
defined contribution pension plan where the employes at

449
00:20:42,576 –> 00:20:47,985
[fraser_stark]: retirement can can choose you know different
options life works has added this to their

450
00:20:48,046 –> 00:20:53,755
[fraser_stark]: platform on the platform side and consulting
side and so plan sponsors companies ing canada

451
00:20:53,815 –> 00:20:58,603
[fraser_stark]: that run their program through life works
are able to to turn this on and

452
00:20:58,643 –> 00:21:01,268
[fraser_stark]: so we’re now that that went live
last month and we’re now in

453
00:21:01,260 –> 00:21:01,466
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

454
00:21:01,308 –> 00:21:05,655
[fraser_stark]: discussion with plan sponsors who know they
need to understand the fund of course and

455
00:21:05,715 –> 00:21:09,581
[fraser_stark]: what it can mean for their employes
but what a phenomenal way for a company

456
00:21:09,662 –> 00:21:14,169
[fraser_stark]: to show that they care about their
employes outcome even after they’re retired is not

457
00:21:14,229 –> 00:21:14,610
[fraser_stark]: just saying

458
00:21:14,591 –> 00:21:14,612
[bruno_caron]: m

459
00:21:14,650 –> 00:21:17,716
[fraser_stark]: hey you worked with us for twenty
five years you’ve saved up a lot money

460
00:21:17,856 –> 00:21:20,183
[fraser_stark]: you know here it is let us
know where you want to transfer it and

461
00:21:20,585 –> 00:21:23,093
[fraser_stark]: good block figuring out how much to
draw each year its

462
00:21:23,098 –> 00:21:23,240
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

463
00:21:24,175 –> 00:21:28,242
[fraser_stark]: you know you can stay in our
plan and you can have income for life

464
00:21:28,503 –> 00:21:28,843
[fraser_stark]: in a non

465
00:21:28,742 –> 00:21:28,843
[paul_tyler]: ah

466
00:21:28,883 –> 00:21:29,885
[fraser_stark]: guaranteed way way that’s

467
00:21:29,850 –> 00:21:30,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

468
00:21:29,925 –> 00:21:33,050
[fraser_stark]: variable but what what that does that’s
so nice is

469
00:21:33,000 –> 00:21:33,304
[paul_tyler]: oh

470
00:21:33,110 –> 00:21:38,260
[fraser_stark]: it allows that income for life without
the financial infant share responsibility on the corporate

471
00:21:38,280 –> 00:21:43,069
[fraser_stark]: balance set which of course dvpensions have
put put on over the years and is

472
00:21:43,289 –> 00:21:45,313
[fraser_stark]: the main reason why most companies are
moving away

473
00:21:45,209 –> 00:21:45,411
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: is it

474
00:21:46,781 –> 00:21:47,302
[paul_tyler]: in phrase

475
00:21:47,038 –> 00:21:47,321
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you

476
00:21:47,402 –> 00:21:52,470
[paul_tyler]: you got a real interesting background and
because you just came from facebook you worked

477
00:21:52,791 –> 00:22:00,747
[paul_tyler]: with an influence of what lessons did
you learn there that you’re plying into this

478
00:22:00,767 –> 00:22:01,108
[paul_tyler]: space

479
00:22:02,435 –> 00:22:02,595
[fraser_stark]: yeah

480
00:22:02,469 –> 00:22:02,490
[paul_tyler]: m

481
00:22:03,276 –> 00:22:05,440
[fraser_stark]: you know the other part of my
career i started a bann

482
00:22:05,252 –> 00:22:05,374
[bruno_caron]: ye

483
00:22:05,520 –> 00:22:10,007
[fraser_stark]: company as a consultant and my clients
were retail banks in both canada and the

484
00:22:10,067 –> 00:22:12,511
[fraser_stark]: us wealth management

485
00:22:12,480 –> 00:22:13,920
[paul_tyler]: oh

486
00:22:12,551 –> 00:22:18,061
[fraser_stark]: firms as well as one of the
largest canadian pensions and so i’ve worked in

487
00:22:18,101 –> 00:22:21,607
[fraser_stark]: the d b pension side i’ve worked
so i do have a more financial background

488
00:22:22,588 –> 00:22:23,049
[fraser_stark]: after being

489
00:22:22,952 –> 00:22:23,173
[bruno_caron]: oh

490
00:22:23,089 –> 00:22:29,578
[fraser_stark]: though you know influitive and facebook both
tech companies and both really innovative and i

491
00:22:29,610 –> 00:22:30,270
[paul_tyler]: yeah

492
00:22:29,658 –> 00:22:34,402
[fraser_stark]: think that’s what’s what’s happening here is
i was drawn to this role to join

493
00:22:34,522 –> 00:22:37,576
[fraser_stark]: early twenty twenty one because

494
00:22:37,262 –> 00:22:37,544
[bruno_caron]: oh

495
00:22:37,676 –> 00:22:43,205
[fraser_stark]: it’s it’s important innovation and it’s not
going to be easy you know this is

496
00:22:43,326 –> 00:22:44,928
[fraser_stark]: this takes real change in mind

497
00:22:44,762 –> 00:22:45,106
[bruno_caron]: yeah

498
00:22:45,028 –> 00:22:51,018
[fraser_stark]: shift and we’ve got a product here
that solves a the important problem for retires

499
00:22:51,619 –> 00:22:56,628
[fraser_stark]: and yet it looks so different that
getting that getting the product design right and

500
00:22:56,668 –> 00:23:01,295
[fraser_stark]: thinking about it both in financial terms
as well as consumer terms and the you

501
00:23:01,336 –> 00:23:05,783
[fraser_stark]: know the real way that people make
decisions at the kitchen table you know talking

502
00:23:05,823 –> 00:23:10,190
[fraser_stark]: to their advisor talking to their spouse
talking to their kids you know all of

503
00:23:10,250 –> 00:23:15,499
[fraser_stark]: those things it makes it fascinating problem
to solve and it’s it’s been a ton

504
00:23:15,579 –> 00:23:19,045
[fraser_stark]: of fun so far and you know
we can’t wait to see where it goes

505
00:23:19,105 –> 00:23:21,509
[fraser_stark]: but this is what i do in
my career is i think on my linked

506
00:23:21,549 –> 00:23:23,372
[fraser_stark]: in i say i like solving

507
00:23:23,702 –> 00:23:23,926
[bruno_caron]: oh

508
00:23:24,174 –> 00:23:30,284
[fraser_stark]: really challenge problems with technology and you
know this is more financial engineering than you

509
00:23:30,304 –> 00:23:34,911
[fraser_stark]: know data base engineering but none the
less it’s it’s a really cool it’s a

510
00:23:34,932 –> 00:23:36,961
[fraser_stark]: really cool space and i’m loving here

511
00:23:39,312 –> 00:23:44,741
[bruno_caron]: no that there and then i mean
that’s going back to the point you mentioned

512
00:23:44,821 –> 00:23:50,831
[bruno_caron]: earlier on education and that that that
kitchen table sale can you dis some of

513
00:23:50,871 –> 00:23:55,078
[bruno_caron]: the some of the some of the
initiatives that you’ve you’ve had and what some

514
00:23:55,098 –> 00:24:01,128
[bruno_caron]: of the challenges that you’ve had in
terms of bringing the idea of the concept

515
00:24:01,268 –> 00:24:08,079
[bruno_caron]: forward people to individuals or to to
employes as you as you mentioned

516
00:24:08,876 –> 00:24:12,403
[fraser_stark]: yeah you know there are there are
a couple of challenges here you know one

517
00:24:12,523 –> 00:24:15,910
[fraser_stark]: thing is that i have found interesting
an i’s been a bit of a surprise

518
00:24:16,110 –> 00:24:20,212
[fraser_stark]: when you start talking about this fund
a lot of people you see their mental

519
00:24:20,293 –> 00:24:25,347
[fraser_stark]: wheels start turning and they say if
i put all my money into this you

520
00:24:25,387 –> 00:24:29,915
[fraser_stark]: know i’d have i’d be rather a
liquid and and they’re not wrong but we

521
00:24:29,995 –> 00:24:32,820
[fraser_stark]: sort of say well who said anything
about putting all your money into this i

522
00:24:32,880 –> 00:24:37,347
[fraser_stark]: mean that that sort of true of
of any product is it’s not right for

523
00:24:37,488 –> 00:24:42,997
[fraser_stark]: for everything you know so so that
education what i’m getting at there is sometimes

524
00:24:43,057 –> 00:24:49,089
[fraser_stark]: we bring in our preconceived notions on
on products and when you talk about a

525
00:24:49,129 –> 00:24:52,579
[fraser_stark]: product like this people jump to all
of it and we say absolutely not you

526
00:24:52,619 –> 00:24:56,007
[fraser_stark]: know this isn’t right for everyone and
even the people it’s right for it’s not

527
00:24:56,067 –> 00:24:59,032
[fraser_stark]: right for all of their assents one
thing we’re seeing is a lot of our

528
00:24:59,072 –> 00:25:04,161
[fraser_stark]: investors actually already have a d b
pension or they already have annuities in their

529
00:25:04,201 –> 00:25:09,730
[fraser_stark]: portfolio and what they’re doing is there
they’re compartmentalizing the income in retirement and saying

530
00:25:09,750 –> 00:25:12,935
[fraser_stark]: there’s a there’s a portion that’s absolute
base line you know in canada we have

531
00:25:13,216 –> 00:25:18,324
[fraser_stark]: we have pretty good government supports which
is which is great and some people buy

532
00:25:18,425 –> 00:25:24,955
[fraser_stark]: nuits to create more guaranteed income at
a fixed level this allows them to have

533
00:25:25,436 –> 00:25:29,382
[fraser_stark]: income for life at a variable level
and we show them that it will vary

534
00:25:29,463 –> 00:25:33,910
[fraser_stark]: but it shouldn’t dramatically because of the
way we manage it so that’s one thing

535
00:25:33,990 –> 00:25:39,762
[fraser_stark]: on the on the education side it’s
been really interesting the other is just because

536
00:25:39,822 –> 00:25:44,033
[fraser_stark]: this product looks and sounds like an
annuity in some ways a lot of people

537
00:25:45,350 –> 00:25:49,691
[fraser_stark]: you know we have people ask us
well well how can you say it’s guaranteed

538
00:25:50,132 –> 00:25:53,639
[fraser_stark]: and we say we didn’t say it
was guaranteed right we said it’s income for

539
00:25:53,719 –> 00:25:57,105
[fraser_stark]: life at a variable level and that’s
an that’s clear but they’re bringing in that

540
00:25:57,165 –> 00:26:00,530
[fraser_stark]: notion that because it’s ncome for life
and the only income for life people have

541
00:26:00,570 –> 00:26:04,797
[fraser_stark]: ever seen is a d b pensioner
an ane they’re they’re bringing that in as

542
00:26:04,837 –> 00:26:09,585
[fraser_stark]: well and the final example in that
sphere is that this is it ties to

543
00:26:09,645 –> 00:26:14,013
[fraser_stark]: a single person there’s no spousal component
to it that’s an innovation we could we

544
00:26:14,073 –> 00:26:18,718
[fraser_stark]: could do further there’s trade off to
it of course because a couple lives longer

545
00:26:18,778 –> 00:26:22,402
[fraser_stark]: than a person the distribution levels would
be lower and that could be the right

546
00:26:22,462 –> 00:26:28,319
[fraser_stark]: trade off but a lot of times
people say you know well my my spouse

547
00:26:28,379 –> 00:26:32,005
[fraser_stark]: and i you know both need income
and i want like they feel as though

548
00:26:32,045 –> 00:26:37,494
[fraser_stark]: the product is designed against their interests
by not being spousal and and we have

549
00:26:37,514 –> 00:26:41,281
[fraser_stark]: a nversation and point out and generally
we we get them there that well you

550
00:26:41,321 –> 00:26:45,628
[fraser_stark]: can buy some in each person’s name
and in fact that actually lets you create

551
00:26:46,810 –> 00:26:51,998
[fraser_stark]: a very effective income flow before and
after first member of a couple has passed

552
00:26:52,059 –> 00:26:57,648
[fraser_stark]: away you can actually engineer it really
brilliantly because again this this allocation let’s say

553
00:26:57,708 –> 00:27:02,095
[fraser_stark]: a couple with a million dollars who
put four hundred thousand into longevity two hundred

554
00:27:02,135 –> 00:27:08,165
[fraser_stark]: in each person’s name they’ve created a
very nicely aline stream of income to their

555
00:27:08,205 –> 00:27:13,756
[fraser_stark]: needs before and after the first member
passes away but these are what i’m in

556
00:27:13,877 –> 00:27:21,070
[fraser_stark]: out is that we carry a lot
of preconceived notions in i think financial education

557
00:27:21,151 –> 00:27:28,349
[fraser_stark]: among the general population varies from high
to quite low and it’s important for everyone

558
00:27:28,589 –> 00:27:33,154
[fraser_stark]: you know to think through these issues
so i think the same issues that that

559
00:27:33,715 –> 00:27:38,683
[fraser_stark]: an agent would would struggle with or
might struggle with explaining a more complex annuity

560
00:27:38,763 –> 00:27:42,710
[fraser_stark]: to a family i think some of
that exists here but people are really resonating

561
00:27:42,730 –> 00:27:47,690
[fraser_stark]: with this message of you still benefit
from market return have the confidence to spend

562
00:27:48,375 –> 00:27:52,241
[fraser_stark]: it’s still assets that you can think
of in your portfolio because they are there

563
00:27:52,381 –> 00:27:56,027
[fraser_stark]: for you and when you pass away
a portion is left in or after a

564
00:27:56,047 –> 00:27:59,733
[fraser_stark]: number of years it’s all left in
but those are some of the challenges bruno

565
00:27:59,814 –> 00:28:00,799
[fraser_stark]: that we’re facing

566
00:28:07,552 –> 00:28:12,780
[bruno_caron]: wonderful and i mean i know we
kind of touched on it a little bit

567
00:28:14,243 –> 00:28:18,470
[bruno_caron]: but you know you mentioned you know
some of those those preconceived ideas some of

568
00:28:18,510 –> 00:28:18,590
[bruno_caron]: the

569
00:28:19,675 –> 00:28:21,055
[fraser_stark]: yeah

570
00:28:19,892 –> 00:28:26,043
[bruno_caron]: the guarantees um any other parallel within
you know with

571
00:28:25,890 –> 00:28:26,610
[paul_tyler]: yeah

572
00:28:26,083 –> 00:28:33,094
[bruno_caron]: your comparable peers and i e annuities
in any any other differences you’d like to

573
00:28:33,615 –> 00:28:38,383
[bruno_caron]: highlight and maybe perhaps on the on
the investment side we didn’t discuss too much

574
00:28:38,543 –> 00:28:41,989
[bruno_caron]: but any anything in that in that
particular area

575
00:28:42,685 –> 00:28:47,773
[fraser_stark]: yeah yeah you know the investment side
is it’s our our c i o purpose

576
00:28:48,354 –> 00:28:54,685
[fraser_stark]: greg taylor who manages the portfolio with
no one but they’ve created a truly diversive

577
00:28:54,805 –> 00:28:57,389
[fraser_stark]: i m portfolio across geography

578
00:28:57,450 –> 00:28:59,580
[paul_tyler]: yeah

579
00:28:57,529 –> 00:29:01,596
[fraser_stark]: sect or strategy you know it’s a
mix a fixed income and equities we use

580
00:29:01,756 –> 00:29:08,247
[fraser_stark]: hedging overlaid to further reduce risk there’s
about nineteen percent out casion to alternatives which

581
00:29:08,307 –> 00:29:13,235
[fraser_stark]: we invest in through through liquid alternative
funds which gives access

582
00:29:13,800 –> 00:29:14,063
[paul_tyler]: yeah

583
00:29:14,317 –> 00:29:19,907
[fraser_stark]: to real estate to energy to precious
metals base metals et cetera that portion of

584
00:29:19,927 –> 00:29:22,431
[fraser_stark]: the portfolio has been really great this
year when we’ve

585
00:29:22,380 –> 00:29:23,280
[paul_tyler]: oh

586
00:29:22,471 –> 00:29:26,738
[fraser_stark]: been so challenged in markets with with
this inflationary environment the

587
00:29:26,820 –> 00:29:27,870
[paul_tyler]: oh

588
00:29:27,058 –> 00:29:32,949
[fraser_stark]: portfolio is targeting a return of only
around five percent you know it’s deliberately seeking

589
00:29:33,029 –> 00:29:37,197
[fraser_stark]: return with minimum volatility this isn’t about
ou know a lot of d b pensions

590
00:29:37,067 –> 00:29:37,150
[bruno_caron]: ah

591
00:29:37,277 –> 00:29:43,368
[fraser_stark]: actually strive for eight to nine percent
annually they almost need hit that in over

592
00:29:43,408 –> 00:29:48,136
[fraser_stark]: the long term in order to in
order to make their make all their payments

593
00:29:48,216 –> 00:29:52,964
[fraser_stark]: but we’ve we’ve set this up to
work on a on a low return basis

594
00:29:53,100 –> 00:29:53,443
[paul_tyler]: oh

595
00:29:53,765 –> 00:29:57,732
[fraser_stark]: that said it’s very different than an
annuity because there it’s an investment fund there’s

596
00:29:57,792 –> 00:30:01,739
[fraser_stark]: no capital reserve requirements where we’re able
to benefit from

597
00:30:01,770 –> 00:30:02,017
[paul_tyler]: oh

598
00:30:01,779 –> 00:30:07,207
[fraser_stark]: that market risk premium and i think
that i think that’s that’s really powerful and

599
00:30:07,267 –> 00:30:11,112
[fraser_stark]: as much as in these early days
there’s a lot of education with investors going

600
00:30:11,252 –> 00:30:11,673
[fraser_stark]: on that

601
00:30:11,708 –> 00:30:11,928
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

602
00:30:12,090 –> 00:30:12,930
[paul_tyler]: oh

603
00:30:13,855 –> 00:30:17,481
[fraser_stark]: you know sometimes it goes very well
sometimes the product

604
00:30:17,427 –> 00:30:17,588
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

605
00:30:17,562 –> 00:30:22,129
[fraser_stark]: is still too foreign to people and
that’s okay but i see this over the

606
00:30:22,169 –> 00:30:25,475
[fraser_stark]: long term getting to a place where
it’s much easier to explain than a the

607
00:30:25,555 –> 00:30:26,459
[fraser_stark]: annuity constructions

608
00:30:26,310 –> 00:30:27,000
[paul_tyler]: my

609
00:30:26,920 –> 00:30:30,132
[fraser_stark]: and the transparency is powerful when someone
passes away

610
00:30:31,220 –> 00:30:31,321
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

611
00:30:31,755 –> 00:30:33,238
[fraser_stark]: purpose investments does not

612
00:30:33,210 –> 00:30:33,840
[paul_tyler]: oh

613
00:30:33,318 –> 00:30:36,864
[fraser_stark]: benefit from that in any way if
you think about where those mortality credits go

614
00:30:36,924 –> 00:30:41,030
[fraser_stark]: it always flows to the pool you
know we receive a management fee as investment

615
00:30:41,051 –> 00:30:46,019
[fraser_stark]: managers do on every fund that’s taken
nelly is a percentage of the assets but

616
00:30:46,059 –> 00:30:52,770
[fraser_stark]: the residual left in the pool always
benefits the surviving investors and i think that’s

617
00:30:52,910 –> 00:30:55,314
[fraser_stark]: that’s really powerful people are funny about

618
00:30:55,157 –> 00:30:55,178
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

619
00:30:55,334 –> 00:30:59,802
[fraser_stark]: that concept of fairness right things that
don’t really seem to affect us we still

620
00:30:59,882 –> 00:31:03,909
[fraser_stark]: care about a lot and there’s a
there’s reams of psychological research into how important

621
00:31:03,989 –> 00:31:07,795
[fraser_stark]: fairness is and that’s one of the
elements that really resonates with invest when we

622
00:31:07,835 –> 00:31:10,720
[fraser_stark]: speak to them is that idea that
the

623
00:31:09,810 –> 00:31:10,620
[paul_tyler]: oh

624
00:31:10,820 –> 00:31:16,109
[fraser_stark]: corporation is not benefiting you know if
they if they passed away early you know

625
00:31:16,149 –> 00:31:20,478
[fraser_stark]: the other big tether huge difference from
an annuity is really around that idea i

626
00:31:20,538 –> 00:31:24,349
[fraser_stark]: touched on at the beginning that an
investor can choose to redeem this and i

627
00:31:24,389 –> 00:31:25,833
[fraser_stark]: think that’s that’s really powerful

628
00:31:26,610 –> 00:31:26,953
[paul_tyler]: oh

629
00:31:26,745 –> 00:31:30,431
[fraser_stark]: of course many annuities will either keep
paying or lump some out to the estate

630
00:31:30,511 –> 00:31:35,760
[fraser_stark]: of some one who passes away but
your your voluntary redeemability is typically quite low

631
00:31:36,040 –> 00:31:41,449
[fraser_stark]: depending on the structure with this fund
we never treated any differently whether you’ve passed

632
00:31:41,509 –> 00:31:45,256
[fraser_stark]: away or are simply asking you to
have your money back and i think that’s

633
00:31:45,276 –> 00:31:50,545
[fraser_stark]: really powerful it means no one ever
has an incentive to live or to die

634
00:31:50,685 –> 00:31:51,026
[fraser_stark]: if you think

635
00:31:51,041 –> 00:31:51,206
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

636
00:31:51,067 –> 00:31:54,943
[fraser_stark]: about it financially it’s it’s i think
that’s a powerful benefit

637
00:31:55,890 –> 00:31:58,474
[paul_tyler]: for sure i think we just lost
a brutal unfortunately

638
00:31:58,369 –> 00:31:58,670
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: but yeah

639
00:31:58,875 –> 00:31:58,995
[paul_tyler]: but

640
00:31:59,067 –> 00:31:59,293
[fraser_stark]: okay

641
00:31:59,236 –> 00:32:00,237
[paul_tyler]: tsa tis now

642
00:32:00,229 –> 00:32:00,249
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

643
00:32:00,257 –> 00:32:00,999
[paul_tyler]: you had a question

644
00:32:01,678 –> 00:32:04,423
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah i wanted to jump in so
i agree with you sort of that power

645
00:32:04,543 –> 00:32:12,135
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of fairness and choice but i wanted
to go back you in your background mentioned

646
00:32:12,656 –> 00:32:18,145
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you innovation and tech that thread throughout
the positions that you’ve held so i heard

647
00:32:18,185 –> 00:32:22,212
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you talk a little bit about technology
infused into the financial modeling but i was

648
00:32:22,312 –> 00:32:26,800
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: curious if there’s any tech or innovation
you could share and whether it’s you know

649
00:32:26,880 –> 00:32:31,428
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: user experience sort of what investors might
be empowered to do through managing their assets

650
00:32:31,508 –> 00:32:36,095
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: on your platform or any other type
of infusions of tech for the actual benefit

651
00:32:36,155 –> 00:32:37,698
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the investor um

652
00:32:37,908 –> 00:32:38,333
[fraser_stark]: great question

653
00:32:38,100 –> 00:32:38,220
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that

654
00:32:38,373 –> 00:32:38,555
[fraser_stark]: tis

655
00:32:38,461 –> 00:32:39,565
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you guys might make considering

656
00:32:40,445 –> 00:32:45,293
[fraser_stark]: yeah you know right now because it
sold as a mutual fund the client experience

657
00:32:45,353 –> 00:32:49,480
[fraser_stark]: is typically between the deal or whether
that’s an online

658
00:32:49,324 –> 00:32:49,838
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

659
00:32:49,520 –> 00:32:53,346
[fraser_stark]: brokerage or an advisor someone works with
or the life works platform for someone who

660
00:32:53,386 –> 00:32:57,633
[fraser_stark]: manage this manages this as part of
their workplace savings program so

661
00:32:57,758 –> 00:32:58,898
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: mhm

662
00:32:57,994 –> 00:32:58,174
[fraser_stark]: that

663
00:32:58,140 –> 00:32:58,366
[paul_tyler]: oh

664
00:32:58,254 –> 00:32:59,216
[fraser_stark]: experience is

665
00:32:59,220 –> 00:33:00,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

666
00:32:59,296 –> 00:33:04,685
[fraser_stark]: today controlled there you know we have
bold ambitions to play in different parts this

667
00:33:05,106 –> 00:33:05,707
[fraser_stark]: but what i can

668
00:33:05,910 –> 00:33:06,750
[paul_tyler]: oh

669
00:33:05,947 –> 00:33:11,416
[fraser_stark]: what i can tell you is our
website retire with longevity dot com has two

670
00:33:11,476 –> 00:33:17,967
[fraser_stark]: calculators there visualize ones as a simple
visualizer of income someone can expect the others

671
00:33:18,027 –> 00:33:22,234
[fraser_stark]: a bit more of a of a
picture a canadian retired investors

672
00:33:21,701 –> 00:33:22,208
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

673
00:33:23,236 –> 00:33:28,284
[fraser_stark]: income profile you know when i look
and i see calculators you know that exist

674
00:33:28,425 –> 00:33:32,097
[fraser_stark]: online in different places often they’re very
complex

675
00:33:32,340 –> 00:33:32,582
[paul_tyler]: oh

676
00:33:32,835 –> 00:33:38,183
[fraser_stark]: i think they may be in some
cases designed to make the person showing it

677
00:33:38,224 –> 00:33:42,791
[fraser_stark]: to the client look smart or you
know it’s more about showing complexity than the

678
00:33:42,891 –> 00:33:47,878
[fraser_stark]: simplicity and we want to with that
i mean our investors are very intelligent but

679
00:33:48,179 –> 00:33:54,186
[fraser_stark]: but this is not the they’re not
actuaries they’re not financial know ph d s

680
00:33:54,547 –> 00:33:59,453
[fraser_stark]: and so the more you can show
someone simplicity i think and and so we’ve

681
00:33:59,473 –> 00:34:04,840
[fraser_stark]: got some calculators today where where i
can see us going with this is you

682
00:34:04,880 –> 00:34:05,281
[fraser_stark]: know too

683
00:34:05,379 –> 00:34:05,400
[paul_tyler]: m

684
00:34:05,481 –> 00:34:10,930
[fraser_stark]: often we we go to averages planners
often say well you know the average person

685
00:34:11,030 –> 00:34:13,855
[fraser_stark]: is sixty five can expect to live
to be eighty seven eighty eight you know

686
00:34:13,955 –> 00:34:18,162
[fraser_stark]: depending on country and gender and so
forth so let’s build you a plan of

687
00:34:18,202 –> 00:34:23,932
[fraser_stark]: ninety right but averages are always dangerous
i go back to that that that fable

688
00:34:23,972 –> 00:34:27,798
[fraser_stark]: you know would you you walk across
the fast flowing river if i told you

689
00:34:28,019 –> 00:34:31,184
[fraser_stark]: on average it was only two feet
deep well if it’s eight feet deep in

690
00:34:31,204 –> 00:34:34,790
[fraser_stark]: the middle you’ll you’ll get washed away
and i think the same thing is exactly

691
00:34:34,850 –> 00:34:39,723
[fraser_stark]: what exists for investors so i could
s in the next year building tools that

692
00:34:40,767 –> 00:34:47,941
[fraser_stark]: that make monte carlo simulations readily accessible
in a real way to investors and i

693
00:34:47,981 –> 00:34:53,110
[fraser_stark]: think monte carlo is the thing and
stocastic fancy greek word or latin word for

694
00:34:53,150 –> 00:34:57,617
[fraser_stark]: it these are terms that just sound
like a lot of sophistication went in on

695
00:34:57,637 –> 00:35:01,844
[fraser_stark]: the back end but i’d love to
show investors that there’s a wide range of

696
00:35:01,904 –> 00:35:07,814
[fraser_stark]: possibilities and what you need to do
is optimize you need to optimize your situation

697
00:35:07,854 –> 00:35:11,080
[fraser_stark]: work gardless of what happens right it’s
what we do when we insure things it’s

698
00:35:11,100 –> 00:35:16,629
[fraser_stark]: what an annuity does right an nuities
great annuities are great products but but that

699
00:35:16,729 –> 00:35:20,996
[fraser_stark]: idea you know it’s not easy and
these things are complex in the back end

700
00:35:21,076 –> 00:35:24,322
[fraser_stark]: how do you turn it into something
that’s visually quite simple you know i think

701
00:35:24,722 –> 00:35:28,248
[fraser_stark]: know my experience at facebook for a
couple of years you know is a great

702
00:35:28,308 –> 00:35:32,696
[fraser_stark]: example of a platform that takes you
know the amount of information lowing through that

703
00:35:32,856 –> 00:35:37,083
[fraser_stark]: the you know whether you think about
our user experience and being able to you

704
00:35:37,143 –> 00:35:40,449
[fraser_stark]: know to attend events and see that
our friends are going that is that is

705
00:35:40,489 –> 00:35:45,417
[fraser_stark]: a tremendous amount of information that’s simplified
and really consumable ay by people of all

706
00:35:45,477 –> 00:35:50,245
[fraser_stark]: ages it’s become a controversial platform social
media itself is a controversial topic these days

707
00:35:50,640 –> 00:35:51,690
[paul_tyler]: oh

708
00:35:51,387 –> 00:35:54,492
[fraser_stark]: but likewise if you think about what
what happens i was on the on the

709
00:35:54,572 –> 00:35:59,480
[fraser_stark]: ads team at facebook if you think
what happens there the amount of data that

710
00:35:59,540 –> 00:36:03,587
[fraser_stark]: is going in to determining that that
i see and add you know advertising a

711
00:36:03,627 –> 00:36:07,834
[fraser_stark]: certain car brand or you know sneakers
that they want me to buy it’s immense

712
00:36:07,934 –> 00:36:14,787
[fraser_stark]: amounts information going in so that’s where
i see a lot of education that’s really

713
00:36:14,907 –> 00:36:17,031
[fraser_stark]: helpful to investors you know i think

714
00:36:16,950 –> 00:36:17,438
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

715
00:36:17,191 –> 00:36:22,352
[fraser_stark]: our legacy should be we’d love to
to really help investors in canada and around

716
00:36:22,392 –> 00:36:31,189
[fraser_stark]: the world understand the challenge of the
accumulation and and you know if that’s what

717
00:36:31,229 –> 00:36:35,897
[fraser_stark]: we create however they choose to solve
that great and i think our fund will

718
00:36:36,357 –> 00:36:38,341
[fraser_stark]: we’ll ride that wave of course

719
00:36:39,050 –> 00:36:39,518
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

720
00:36:39,222 –> 00:36:44,231
[fraser_stark]: but i think it’s just so important
people you people are suffering and and lots

721
00:36:44,251 –> 00:36:47,376
[fraser_stark]: of investors are doing really well but
we hear from canadians every day who are

722
00:36:47,476 –> 00:36:50,160
[fraser_stark]: really hit by what’s going on in
markets and you know

723
00:36:50,151 –> 00:36:50,678
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

724
00:36:50,201 –> 00:36:54,911
[fraser_stark]: they’ve not got enough money to last
them forever at their current rate of spend

725
00:36:55,252 –> 00:36:57,780
[fraser_stark]: and so being able to articulate that
is

726
00:36:57,780 –> 00:36:58,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

727
00:36:57,820 –> 00:36:58,863
[fraser_stark]: where i’d love to contribute

728
00:36:59,540 –> 00:37:00,886
[paul_tyler]: okay so your fund

729
00:37:01,238 –> 00:37:01,382
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

730
00:37:01,308 –> 00:37:09,623
[paul_tyler]: versus annuities is it does your product
replace annuities if i’m an investor reward is

731
00:37:09,663 –> 00:37:14,253
[paul_tyler]: a compliment would i ever own your
fund and have an annuity at the same

732
00:37:14,334 –> 00:37:14,575
[paul_tyler]: time

733
00:37:15,705 –> 00:37:18,450
[fraser_stark]: many of our investors do and when
we speak with the com know we do

734
00:37:18,530 –> 00:37:22,697
[fraser_stark]: market research and talk to investors we
welcome them to the community we’re building um

735
00:37:23,097 –> 00:37:23,177
[fraser_stark]: you

736
00:37:23,139 –> 00:37:23,160
[paul_tyler]: m

737
00:37:23,198 –> 00:37:26,483
[fraser_stark]: know and and a surprising number of
them do say you know i have annuities

738
00:37:26,543 –> 00:37:28,967
[fraser_stark]: and i heard about this fun and
and i understood

739
00:37:28,530 –> 00:37:28,813
[paul_tyler]: oh

740
00:37:29,007 –> 00:37:33,114
[fraser_stark]: the differences you know i like the
shelf analogy and you think about you know

741
00:37:33,174 –> 00:37:36,880
[fraser_stark]: a shelf at a store and the
two products side by side on the shelf

742
00:37:36,900 –> 00:37:41,170
[fraser_stark]: they each have different different trade offs
and benefits um and i think that’s that’s

743
00:37:41,210 –> 00:37:44,862
[fraser_stark]: very true here you know there are
investors who will look at our fund and

744
00:37:44,942 –> 00:37:50,021
[fraser_stark]: say what i’m actually after is an
annuity i need that guarantee i’m willing to

745
00:37:50,102 –> 00:37:55,070
[fraser_stark]: accept less you know what i say
about guarantees we we’ve got to blog post

746
00:37:55,130 –> 00:37:57,674
[fraser_stark]: on our website about guarantees they’re wonderful

747
00:37:57,510 –> 00:37:58,380
[paul_tyler]: oh

748
00:37:58,096 –> 00:38:01,518
[fraser_stark]: but they come at a cost and
you may or may not choose to take

749
00:38:01,538 –> 00:38:04,843
[fraser_stark]: that cost i mean do you do
you buy the insurance when you get a

750
00:38:04,903 –> 00:38:08,957
[fraser_stark]: new smart phone you know that means
if you if you drop it and smash

751
00:38:09,037 –> 00:38:11,960
[fraser_stark]: it the company some people do some
people don’t they’re making the right decision for

752
00:38:12,000 –> 00:38:17,710
[fraser_stark]: themselves in the guarantee against market risk
that comes with an annuity is right for

753
00:38:17,770 –> 00:38:21,718
[fraser_stark]: some people and not right for others
and the research shows we’ve got an amazing

754
00:38:21,798 –> 00:38:24,182
[fraser_stark]: advisory committee on this fund one of
whom

755
00:38:24,210 –> 00:38:24,539
[paul_tyler]: oh

756
00:38:24,582 –> 00:38:31,133
[fraser_stark]: jim leech ran ontario teachers pension plan
and and others bonny macdonald’s leading academic what

757
00:38:31,254 –> 00:38:35,340
[fraser_stark]: each of our our advisory members has
told us in different ways is that investors

758
00:38:35,441 –> 00:38:42,292
[fraser_stark]: are actually able to manage variability and
income it think about our lives if i

759
00:38:42,392 –> 00:38:46,669
[fraser_stark]: get a raise at work i’m gonna
i’m going to change my spending in slight

760
00:38:46,709 –> 00:38:50,676
[fraser_stark]: ways it may mean more saving but
it may also mean slightly different spending patterns

761
00:38:50,756 –> 00:38:54,383
[fraser_stark]: likewise if i take a different job
at a lower pay level i’m not i’m

762
00:38:54,423 –> 00:39:00,506
[fraser_stark]: not absolutely you know devastate it in
a irrecoverable way we can adjust to those

763
00:39:00,546 –> 00:39:05,428
[fraser_stark]: things and so when you say to
someone you know i’ll guarantee you i don’t

764
00:39:05,468 –> 00:39:10,556
[fraser_stark]: know x per cent or or i
can offer you one and a half times

765
00:39:10,636 –> 00:39:14,041
[fraser_stark]: that as a return but knowing that
there are scenarios where it could go down

766
00:39:14,102 –> 00:39:15,564
[fraser_stark]: to less than whatever that x was

767
00:39:16,170 –> 00:39:16,560
[paul_tyler]: oh

768
00:39:16,926 –> 00:39:20,792
[fraser_stark]: and you know people rightly ask a
lot of questions about that well how likely

769
00:39:20,852 –> 00:39:24,779
[fraser_stark]: is it to do these different things
and that’s what we’ve been so transparent with

770
00:39:24,899 –> 00:39:28,004
[fraser_stark]: our with our reporting and the annual
report we’re putting out in a couple of

771
00:39:28,024 –> 00:39:32,049
[fraser_stark]: weeks to show you know the update
on all that but that’s that’s really how

772
00:39:32,089 –> 00:39:36,553
[fraser_stark]: to think of it against an annuity
and that idea of compartmentalizing our income sources

773
00:39:36,598 –> 00:39:36,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

774
00:39:36,613 –> 00:39:39,118
[fraser_stark]: in retirement most most

775
00:39:39,162 –> 00:39:39,263
[paul_tyler]: ah

776
00:39:39,218 –> 00:39:43,488
[fraser_stark]: investors in canada do not own annuities
and i think if someone says they’ve looked

777
00:39:43,397 –> 00:39:43,418
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

778
00:39:43,528 –> 00:39:45,192
[fraser_stark]: at longevity and are going to

779
00:39:45,197 –> 00:39:45,218
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

780
00:39:46,675 –> 00:39:51,523
[fraser_stark]: are going to buy an annuity i
think that’s fantastic you’re you’re protecting yourself against

781
00:39:51,563 –> 00:39:55,349
[fraser_stark]: longevity risk someone says i’ve looked at
longevity and i think i’m just going to

782
00:39:55,369 –> 00:39:58,254
[fraser_stark]: keep my assets in a balanced fund

783
00:39:58,560 –> 00:39:58,822
[paul_tyler]: oh

784
00:39:59,014 –> 00:40:04,483
[fraser_stark]: m i think okay but you’ve left
yourself you’ve left yourself self insured effectively and

785
00:40:04,924 –> 00:40:08,710
[fraser_stark]: what you have to do then as
an investor s decide how do i balance

786
00:40:08,810 –> 00:40:13,196
[fraser_stark]: the risk of running out of money
at some state which is which is a

787
00:40:13,256 –> 00:40:18,685
[fraser_stark]: possibility unless you unless you stretch your
portfolio to last until your dean fifteen you

788
00:40:18,725 –> 00:40:22,291
[fraser_stark]: know the oldest canadian ever live to
be ned seventeen and a half but i

789
00:40:22,331 –> 00:40:26,798
[fraser_stark]: think a hunderd and fifteen will cover
you know basically everyone if you do that

790
00:40:26,978 –> 00:40:27,298
[fraser_stark]: you have

791
00:40:27,180 –> 00:40:27,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah

792
00:40:27,759 –> 00:40:33,194
[fraser_stark]: you have a very high degree of
certainty of understanding and leaving a lot of

793
00:40:33,275 –> 00:40:37,051
[fraser_stark]: money your estate and that’s it’s great
for your state but

794
00:40:37,269 –> 00:40:37,290
[paul_tyler]: m

795
00:40:37,775 –> 00:40:40,803
[fraser_stark]: that’s that that’s the trade off and
so that’s how we think about it

796
00:40:42,189 –> 00:40:42,210
[paul_tyler]: m

797
00:40:43,049 –> 00:40:45,152
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so fraser few times

798
00:40:45,188 –> 00:40:45,289
[fraser_stark]: to

799
00:40:45,433 –> 00:40:50,201
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i’ve i’ve heard you sort of hint
at i think a bigger why i’ve heard

800
00:40:50,241 –> 00:40:53,787
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you talk about sort of the power
of the product and a little bit about

801
00:40:53,827 –> 00:40:54,287
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the legs

802
00:40:54,115 –> 00:40:55,285
[fraser_stark]: yeah

803
00:40:54,528 –> 00:40:59,136
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the company so my question for
you is it feels like there’s maybe an

804
00:40:59,236 –> 00:41:06,147
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: intention to shift the investors mindset about
retirement could you comment a little bit on

805
00:41:06,688 –> 00:41:10,297
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: kind of that bigger why or what
you hope to do and shifting people’s attitudes

806
00:41:10,358 –> 00:41:13,866
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: about retirement their attitudes around outliving their
assets

807
00:41:15,465 –> 00:41:20,574
[fraser_stark]: yeah it’s a great question to send
and you know our mantra at purpose and

808
00:41:20,955 –> 00:41:25,001
[fraser_stark]: on the longevity team his ambition never
retires i think we’re driven by a sense

809
00:41:25,322 –> 00:41:26,564
[fraser_stark]: of this

810
00:41:26,580 –> 00:41:26,786
[paul_tyler]: yeah

811
00:41:26,644 –> 00:41:30,951
[fraser_stark]: can be an amazing third act in
people’s lives people are spending more time in

812
00:41:31,011 –> 00:41:34,477
[fraser_stark]: retirement as retirement age you now it
varies we call

813
00:41:34,350 –> 00:41:34,551
[paul_tyler]: oh

814
00:41:34,537 –> 00:41:35,559
[fraser_stark]: it sixty five of course

815
00:41:35,468 –> 00:41:36,278
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

816
00:41:35,699 –> 00:41:37,642
[fraser_stark]: not every one retires at sixty five
we sort of

817
00:41:37,651 –> 00:41:38,138
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

818
00:41:37,702 –> 00:41:39,571
[fraser_stark]: use that as a cliche

819
00:41:40,350 –> 00:41:41,559
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah

820
00:41:41,855 –> 00:41:44,339
[fraser_stark]: it can be such a powerful time
in life

821
00:41:44,184 –> 00:41:44,266
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

822
00:41:44,700 –> 00:41:48,626
[fraser_stark]: but if you’re stressed about running out
of money it may not be or it

823
00:41:48,646 –> 00:41:50,770
[fraser_stark]: may not live up to its full
potential because

824
00:41:50,678 –> 00:41:51,818
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: mhm

825
00:41:51,270 –> 00:41:52,372
[fraser_stark]: you know doing these things

826
00:41:52,478 –> 00:41:53,678
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

827
00:41:52,593 –> 00:41:58,082
[fraser_stark]: going to see family who live in
a different province or state pursuing hobbies whether

828
00:41:58,142 –> 00:42:03,010
[fraser_stark]: it’s the sort of cliche of golf
or some artistic endeavor or you know even

829
00:42:03,090 –> 00:42:07,978
[fraser_stark]: giving back to your community you know
like a board member volunteer these things they

830
00:42:08,038 –> 00:42:08,179
[fraser_stark]: take

831
00:42:08,212 –> 00:42:08,233
[paul_tyler]: a

832
00:42:08,239 –> 00:42:08,760
[fraser_stark]: resources

833
00:42:08,390 –> 00:42:08,798
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

834
00:42:09,441 –> 00:42:09,701
[fraser_stark]: they don’t

835
00:42:09,591 –> 00:42:09,998
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

836
00:42:09,741 –> 00:42:15,050
[fraser_stark]: take they don’t take huge amounts of
assets but they take income to be able

837
00:42:15,110 –> 00:42:18,215
[fraser_stark]: to know that you can do these
things that you can know gas in the

838
00:42:18,255 –> 00:42:22,282
[fraser_stark]: car pay the rent et cetera and
so you know that

839
00:42:22,200 –> 00:42:22,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

840
00:42:22,382 –> 00:42:28,693
[fraser_stark]: that’s what drives us is this idea
that you know it’s there’s so much research

841
00:42:28,753 –> 00:42:33,661
[fraser_stark]: into into how society doesn’t value the
elderly the way that it

842
00:42:33,601 –> 00:42:34,088
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

843
00:42:33,701 –> 00:42:34,783
[fraser_stark]: should and there’s organization s

844
00:42:34,764 –> 00:42:35,198
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

845
00:42:34,823 –> 00:42:39,771
[fraser_stark]: great advocacy organizations like carp here in
canada really pushing for that but but we

846
00:42:39,912 –> 00:42:43,859
[fraser_stark]: see that as important as well and
want to as a we’re a financial company

847
00:42:44,120 –> 00:42:49,118
[fraser_stark]: we’re an asset manager we want to
help people make the most out of their

848
00:42:49,198 –> 00:42:52,843
[fraser_stark]: assets and so that’s really what drives
us but but we love that saying ambition

849
00:42:52,943 –> 00:42:53,564
[fraser_stark]: never retires

850
00:42:54,158 –> 00:42:54,338
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that’s

851
00:42:54,230 –> 00:42:54,654
[paul_tyler]: ambition

852
00:42:54,398 –> 00:42:54,559
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: great

853
00:42:54,856 –> 00:42:55,118
[paul_tyler]: never

854
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:55,380
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

855
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:55,824
[paul_tyler]: retires

856
00:42:55,460 –> 00:42:58,245
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: was kind of repeating that as you
were speaking ambition never

857
00:42:58,242 –> 00:42:58,422
[paul_tyler]: that’s

858
00:42:58,305 –> 00:42:58,685
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: retires

859
00:42:58,502 –> 00:43:03,530
[paul_tyler]: great that’s great listen you have a
great tag line helping canadians retire from work

860
00:43:03,971 –> 00:43:05,955
[paul_tyler]: not life this is this

861
00:43:05,945 –> 00:43:06,087
[fraser_stark]: right

862
00:43:06,015 –> 00:43:09,941
[paul_tyler]: is good this is more than a
mutual fund stock ticker right think fraser you’ve

863
00:43:09,981 –> 00:43:16,011
[paul_tyler]: got going to your company which is
terrific and um i don’t want to ask

864
00:43:16,292 –> 00:43:17,313
[paul_tyler]: too hard you know we’re

865
00:43:17,288 –> 00:43:17,592
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

866
00:43:17,354 –> 00:43:22,522
[paul_tyler]: right up to the hour here you
talk about your focuses on can tiens how

867
00:43:22,582 –> 00:43:25,147
[paul_tyler]: big of a lift is this to
take your product and put it into the

868
00:43:25,287 –> 00:43:28,732
[paul_tyler]: u s is it really a matter
of just putting resources or do you have

869
00:43:28,773 –> 00:43:32,298
[paul_tyler]: to get some laws changed to do
something like this in the

870
00:43:32,336 –> 00:43:32,537
[fraser_stark]: yeah

871
00:43:32,359 –> 00:43:33,242
[paul_tyler]: states oh

872
00:43:33,097 –> 00:43:37,104
[fraser_stark]: you know it’s a great question and
we see this is applicable around the world

873
00:43:37,946 –> 00:43:43,034
[fraser_stark]: one of the things that that i’ve
been really pleasantly surprised by is just how

874
00:43:43,114 –> 00:43:47,842
[fraser_stark]: many people around the world are all
working towards the same goal here of giving

875
00:43:47,922 –> 00:43:52,810
[fraser_stark]: people security and retirement and i think
there’s applicability of this in the u s

876
00:43:53,051 –> 00:43:54,573
[fraser_stark]: as well as other countries

877
00:43:54,210 –> 00:43:54,534
[paul_tyler]: yeah

878
00:43:55,395 –> 00:44:01,164
[fraser_stark]: you know places in europe are going
through transitions with their pension structure australia has

879
00:44:01,224 –> 00:44:04,790
[fraser_stark]: built an incredible pension system but its
been rally focused on accumulation and not as

880
00:44:04,850 –> 00:44:11,061
[fraser_stark]: much yet on decumulation you know law
is changed i would say is too strong

881
00:44:11,141 –> 00:44:15,208
[fraser_stark]: a wording is what we needed here
in canada was to work with our regulators

882
00:44:15,889 –> 00:44:20,256
[fraser_stark]: to have some exemptions to the way
you know the rules and guidelines that cover

883
00:44:20,597 –> 00:44:26,106
[fraser_stark]: mutual funds you know this idea of
a fund that redeems at less than its

884
00:44:26,166 –> 00:44:29,592
[fraser_stark]: current value it raises eyebrows and we
needed

885
00:44:29,577 –> 00:44:30,090
[paul_tyler]: hm

886
00:44:29,632 –> 00:44:33,338
[fraser_stark]: to show the regulators first of i
was an important problem we’re solving that we

887
00:44:33,378 –> 00:44:37,825
[fraser_stark]: were doing this for reasons that that
to to give us exemptive relief on that

888
00:44:37,926 –> 00:44:41,391
[fraser_stark]: issue allowed us to create a really
powerful product and in that process took a

889
00:44:41,431 –> 00:44:45,678
[fraser_stark]: couple of years but as soon as
they stood the problem and understood that our

890
00:44:45,759 –> 00:44:49,725
[fraser_stark]: structure and the transparency and how we
would use it was powerful they became not

891
00:44:49,805 –> 00:44:55,595
[fraser_stark]: only open to it but actually champions
and ambassadors for us around the country was

892
00:44:55,856 –> 00:44:58,726
[fraser_stark]: which was great you know in the
u s i think similar things would need

893
00:44:58,766 –> 00:45:03,688
[fraser_stark]: to be true and you know you
have regulators who who take really

894
00:45:03,540 –> 00:45:03,844
[paul_tyler]: may

895
00:45:03,768 –> 00:45:10,299
[fraser_stark]: strong investor protection focus as they should
as ours do here and you know we’re

896
00:45:10,480 –> 00:45:15,614
[fraser_stark]: looking to opportunities bring this to the
u s and markets but it really has

897
00:45:15,654 –> 00:45:21,901
[fraser_stark]: to fit within every country’s you know
the structure around how they manage investment funds

898
00:45:22,221 –> 00:45:26,448
[fraser_stark]: and you now we’re so proud of
what we’ve built in canada to see the

899
00:45:26,689 –> 00:45:31,837
[fraser_stark]: attraction it’s getting to be on a
on an institution a record keeping platform this

900
00:45:31,918 –> 00:45:35,003
[fraser_stark]: early in its existence i think is
really really

901
00:45:34,950 –> 00:45:35,135
[paul_tyler]: ye

902
00:45:35,083 –> 00:45:39,951
[fraser_stark]: powerful and the press we’ve gotten around
the world has been has been you know

903
00:45:40,532 –> 00:45:45,079
[fraser_stark]: incredibly encouraging and and wonderful so

904
00:45:45,320 –> 00:45:45,461
[paul_tyler]: yeah

905
00:45:45,560 –> 00:45:48,185
[fraser_stark]: yes they tune stay tuned on on
the us we’d love

906
00:45:48,090 –> 00:45:48,333
[paul_tyler]: oh

907
00:45:48,325 –> 00:45:53,353
[fraser_stark]: to know we’d love to bring a
similar product to the u s and it’s

908
00:45:53,433 –> 00:45:58,783
[fraser_stark]: choice for invest or right and as
i say annuities are great but the guarantees

909
00:45:59,044 –> 00:46:02,069
[fraser_stark]: come on to costs that’s right for
some investors and and not right for others

910
00:46:02,169 –> 00:46:04,514
[fraser_stark]: and i think this belongs on the
shelf beside products like that

911
00:46:05,620 –> 00:46:10,470
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right listen fraser thanks so
much for your time tessa thank you

912
00:46:11,063 –> 00:46:12,706
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you thanks paul thanks fraser

913
00:46:12,594 –> 00:46:18,444
[paul_tyler]: and listen fraser we’ll put your website
in the show notes any other

914
00:46:18,698 –> 00:46:19,298
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

915
00:46:19,105 –> 00:46:24,123
[paul_tyler]: places people should go to learn more
about your company product or reach you

916
00:46:25,228 –> 00:46:29,475
[fraser_stark]: i think the website’s great the contact
information is there for anyone interested reach out

917
00:46:29,555 –> 00:46:34,584
[fraser_stark]: and our team will get notes to
me as appropriate purpose invest dot com is

918
00:46:34,664 –> 00:46:39,068
[fraser_stark]: the parent company’s website if people are
interested in purpose but retire with longevity dot

919
00:46:39,108 –> 00:46:40,089
[fraser_stark]: com is really

920
00:46:39,990 –> 00:46:40,590
[paul_tyler]: oh

921
00:46:40,730 –> 00:46:45,694
[fraser_stark]: a great a great resource with with
lots of articles and helpful tools

922
00:46:46,390 –> 00:46:50,135
[paul_tyler]: all right good all right hey thanks
so much thanks our listeners and join us

923
00:46:50,155 –> 00:46:53,259
[paul_tyler]: again next week for another episode of
that annuity show

924
00:46:54,326 –> 00:46:55,345
[fraser_stark]: all right thanks for having me

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 171: Helping Canadians Retire From Work, Not Life With Fraser Stark
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Episode 170: The Future of Advice With Paul Blanco

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What will the future of face-to-face distribution look like in the coming years? Today, we talk with Paul Blanco, Founder and CEO of Barnum Financial, about the future of advisors, insurance agencies, wealth management and technology.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://barnumfinancialgroup.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulblanco/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,519 –> 00:00:06,627
[paul_tyler]: i this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show we’ve

2
00:00:06,667 –> 00:00:11,275
[paul_tyler]: got a really interesting guest on this
show i’ll tell you in a minute ramsey

3
00:00:11,375 –> 00:00:11,796
[paul_tyler]: how are you

4
00:00:12,600 –> 00:00:13,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: great always glad to be here

5
00:00:14,288 –> 00:00:17,954
[paul_tyler]: okay a lot of news coming out
on in plan annuities are you feeling really

6
00:00:18,014 –> 00:00:19,357
[paul_tyler]: bullish about that space right now

7
00:00:19,700 –> 00:00:20,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: hundred percent

8
00:00:20,978 –> 00:00:21,559
[paul_tyler]: unde per cent

9
00:00:21,761 –> 00:00:21,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

10
00:00:23,144 –> 00:00:27,939
[paul_tyler]: bruno from canada you didn’t have an
election last night did you

11
00:00:29,697 –> 00:00:30,198
[bruno_caron]: it’s as if

12
00:00:31,150 –> 00:00:31,290
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’re

13
00:00:31,173 –> 00:00:31,355
[paul_tyler]: yeah

14
00:00:31,350 –> 00:00:31,691
[ramsey_d_smith]: in georgia

15
00:00:31,521 –> 00:00:31,681
[bruno_caron]: but

16
00:00:31,731 –> 00:00:32,011
[ramsey_d_smith]: were still

17
00:00:31,882 –> 00:00:32,002
[bruno_caron]: it’s

18
00:00:32,031 –> 00:00:32,993
[ramsey_d_smith]: electing here in georgia

19
00:00:33,264 –> 00:00:35,304
[bruno_caron]: oh

20
00:00:33,268 –> 00:00:33,829
[paul_tyler]: that’s right

21
00:00:33,934 –> 00:00:34,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is going to

22
00:00:34,330 –> 00:00:34,470
[paul_tyler]: it’s

23
00:00:34,355 –> 00:00:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: be a run

24
00:00:34,550 –> 00:00:34,690
[paul_tyler]: not

25
00:00:34,695 –> 00:00:34,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: off

26
00:00:34,770 –> 00:00:34,910
[paul_tyler]: over

27
00:00:34,876 –> 00:00:35,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: probably

28
00:00:34,991 –> 00:00:35,171
[paul_tyler]: with

29
00:00:35,216 –> 00:00:35,997
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yeah

30
00:00:35,872 –> 00:00:36,353
[paul_tyler]: yeah so

31
00:00:36,594 –> 00:00:36,614
[bruno_caron]: m

32
00:00:36,734 –> 00:00:40,279
[paul_tyler]: so i think everybody probably needs a
little bit break from politics at this point

33
00:00:40,404 –> 00:00:40,566
[bruno_caron]: oh

34
00:00:40,420 –> 00:00:44,787
[paul_tyler]: as i think we all deserve and
so anyway with us today is an old

35
00:00:44,867 –> 00:00:50,076
[paul_tyler]: friend from you know way back when
another couple of companies ago um a guy

36
00:00:50,116 –> 00:00:53,942
[paul_tyler]: who almost needs no introduction if you’re
in this space but paul blanco who is

37
00:00:54,443 –> 00:00:58,442
[paul_tyler]: the c o and founder of barn
financial paul welcome

38
00:01:09,858 –> 00:01:13,183
[paul_tyler]: ah well thank you paul you know
who know you know walking down a street

39
00:01:13,223 –> 00:01:16,829
[paul_tyler]: and at a street cafe would pull
us back together so this is great so

40
00:01:16,884 –> 00:01:18,144
[bruno_caron]: oh

41
00:01:16,970 –> 00:01:17,150
[paul_tyler]: you know

42
00:01:17,199 –> 00:01:17,220
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

43
00:01:17,210 –> 00:01:22,238
[paul_tyler]: for those who don’t know you know
aren’t like in the north east who tell

44
00:01:22,258 –> 00:01:27,887
[paul_tyler]: us about barnum financial what is it
you know size product focus you know etcetera

45
00:02:15,429 –> 00:02:15,450
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

46
00:02:42,362 –> 00:02:42,563
[paul_tyler]: yeah

47
00:02:53,280 –> 00:02:53,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

48
00:03:15,699 –> 00:03:22,830
[paul_tyler]: let’s see i knew you win and
even then your footprint was pretty enormous but

49
00:03:22,890 –> 00:03:27,982
[paul_tyler]: like where did this start so paul
you just got this big office and right

50
00:03:28,043 –> 00:03:29,249
[paul_tyler]: that’s that’s the back story

51
00:04:21,800 –> 00:04:25,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: so to talk a little bit about
that that evolution in the business you started

52
00:04:26,046 –> 00:04:31,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: out very insurance focused and really you
know there’s a there’s a lot of power

53
00:04:31,239 –> 00:04:36,134
[ramsey_d_smith]: in integrating the discussion with a client
you know the insurance discussion with a client

54
00:04:36,375 –> 00:04:43,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: with sort of a wholistic discussion around
planning and andndvcv sort of investment opportunities how

55
00:04:43,947 –> 00:04:47,594
[ramsey_d_smith]: did you how did you sort of
execute that because part of that is finding

56
00:04:47,634 –> 00:04:52,223
[ramsey_d_smith]: the right people part of that’s finding
the right platforms did you build did you

57
00:04:52,303 –> 00:04:55,168
[ramsey_d_smith]: buy tell us about that that entreprenerial
journey

58
00:04:58,934 –> 00:04:58,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

59
00:05:08,962 –> 00:05:11,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

60
00:05:12,174 –> 00:05:12,417
[bruno_caron]: oh

61
00:05:33,039 –> 00:05:33,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

62
00:05:56,520 –> 00:05:57,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

63
00:06:03,579 –> 00:06:03,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

64
00:06:50,274 –> 00:06:50,534
[bruno_caron]: oh

65
00:06:50,409 –> 00:06:50,430
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

66
00:06:56,073 –> 00:06:56,214
[bruno_caron]: yeah

67
00:07:26,074 –> 00:07:32,265
[bruno_caron]: that’s really interesting and that’s kind of
where my my follow up is how do

68
00:07:32,325 –> 00:07:38,115
[bruno_caron]: you marry the two how do you
marry the insurance and the investment and it’s

69
00:07:38,175 –> 00:07:43,624
[bruno_caron]: not just the products it’s also the
mentalities and everything that that comes that comes

70
00:07:43,724 –> 00:07:49,994
[bruno_caron]: with it i think everyone agrees that
it’s not one or the other you have

71
00:07:50,054 –> 00:07:55,524
[bruno_caron]: to have you have to have both
m how do you how do you convey

72
00:07:55,604 –> 00:08:03,437
[bruno_caron]: that message too your clients to the
audience to general public as to how the

73
00:08:03,517 –> 00:08:11,210
[bruno_caron]: two are interconnected and how to know
ultimately use both in terms of in terms

74
00:08:11,270 –> 00:08:12,392
[bruno_caron]: of planning

75
00:08:20,168 –> 00:08:20,249
[paul_tyler]: ah

76
00:08:28,809 –> 00:08:28,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

77
00:08:38,319 –> 00:08:38,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

78
00:08:51,030 –> 00:08:51,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

79
00:09:10,114 –> 00:09:10,154
[bruno_caron]: m

80
00:09:26,784 –> 00:09:26,925
[bruno_caron]: yeah

81
00:09:32,799 –> 00:09:32,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

82
00:09:47,968 –> 00:09:52,696
[paul_tyler]: yeah and maybe you know i give
you a question to go a little bit

83
00:09:52,716 –> 00:09:56,182
[paul_tyler]: more to the infrastructure you know we’re
living in a world of extremes and if

84
00:09:56,282 –> 00:10:00,709
[paul_tyler]: i ask you know people at some
of these conferences what’s the future tribution depend

85
00:10:00,749 –> 00:10:06,199
[paul_tyler]: on the conference one is okay it’s
all going to be roll ups acquisitions you

86
00:10:06,239 –> 00:10:10,606
[paul_tyler]: know i gonna we’re gonna create mega
agencies by buying these things up the other

87
00:10:10,646 –> 00:10:14,513
[paul_tyler]: hand will be now paul it’s all
digital you’re gonna be selling stuff on the

88
00:10:14,553 –> 00:10:18,951
[paul_tyler]: web we’re still going to figure the
stuff out talk to us about your view

89
00:10:19,232 –> 00:10:23,426
[paul_tyler]: you know where’s growth coming from here
and how does it work

90
00:10:31,208 –> 00:10:31,373
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

91
00:11:34,269 –> 00:11:34,290
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

92
00:12:05,949 –> 00:12:05,970
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

93
00:12:54,991 –> 00:12:59,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: so then these are like internal internal
whole sailors for you sort of specific product

94
00:13:00,026 –> 00:13:00,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: specialists

95
00:13:03,639 –> 00:13:03,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

96
00:13:07,212 –> 00:13:08,834
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

97
00:13:16,783 –> 00:13:17,310
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

98
00:13:34,260 –> 00:13:34,525
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

99
00:13:52,620 –> 00:13:54,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m hm

100
00:14:16,560 –> 00:14:16,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

101
00:14:24,030 –> 00:14:32,222
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah so who do you see
is like your competitors are peers because as

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00:14:32,262 –> 00:14:35,047
[ramsey_d_smith]: you as you talk about your business
i can see on one hand it could

103
00:14:35,107 –> 00:14:39,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: be it could be wirehouses because you’re
trying to bring that complete set of services

104
00:14:39,675 –> 00:14:44,624
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the way that they do it
could be it could be other as it

105
00:14:44,644 –> 00:14:48,712
[ramsey_d_smith]: could be lots of different things like
where do you you typically run into people

106
00:14:48,772 –> 00:14:52,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: i guess in terms of you know
you are competitively

107
00:14:56,730 –> 00:14:56,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

108
00:15:00,639 –> 00:15:01,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

109
00:15:07,062 –> 00:15:07,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

110
00:15:12,753 –> 00:15:13,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

111
00:15:31,580 –> 00:15:31,721
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:15:56,922 –> 00:15:57,104
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:15:57,080 –> 00:15:57,520
[ramsey_d_smith]: so you have

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00:15:57,408 –> 00:15:57,489
[paul_tyler]: you

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00:15:57,580 –> 00:16:01,524
[ramsey_d_smith]: in there just just so there’s henry’s
what hirnderis not not rich

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00:16:01,388 –> 00:16:01,988
[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:16:01,584 –> 00:16:01,724
[ramsey_d_smith]: yet

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00:16:02,438 –> 00:16:03,128
[paul_tyler]: yeah

119
00:16:02,725 –> 00:16:06,148
[ramsey_d_smith]: and then there’s and then there’s the
mass affluent and there’s high net worth you

120
00:16:06,208 –> 00:16:09,085
[ramsey_d_smith]: can cover all three of those categories
m

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00:16:15,579 –> 00:16:15,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:16:46,989 –> 00:16:47,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:16:49,199 –> 00:16:53,907
[paul_tyler]: yeah you know over the last couple
of episodes we had some really discussion good

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00:16:53,947 –> 00:16:57,513
[paul_tyler]: discussions about in plan annuities you know
where where this will had secure act to

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00:16:57,573 –> 00:16:57,733
[paul_tyler]: open

126
00:16:57,699 –> 00:16:57,720
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

127
00:16:57,793 –> 00:17:02,301
[paul_tyler]: up some opportunities paul you’ve been in
this space in the work space for a

128
00:17:02,341 –> 00:17:06,649
[paul_tyler]: long time you mentioned you know the
change in you know being

129
00:17:06,576 –> 00:17:06,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

130
00:17:06,669 –> 00:17:14,873
[paul_tyler]: able to communicate with people virtually what’s
happening in in your mind with you know

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00:17:15,634 –> 00:17:21,183
[paul_tyler]: changing how people are working with the
opportunities or the changes in working with companies

132
00:17:21,264 –> 00:17:23,731
[paul_tyler]: to bring financial planning through their employ
or

133
00:18:12,480 –> 00:18:13,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

134
00:18:17,310 –> 00:18:18,120
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

135
00:19:15,300 –> 00:19:15,960
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

136
00:19:21,210 –> 00:19:22,140
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

137
00:19:56,124 –> 00:19:56,364
[bruno_caron]: yah

138
00:20:01,733 –> 00:20:01,893
[bruno_caron]: yah

139
00:20:08,910 –> 00:20:18,153
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yeah do you do any work
helping with setting up plans like setting up

140
00:20:18,233 –> 00:20:19,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: for one c plans

141
00:20:24,065 –> 00:20:24,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

142
00:20:30,733 –> 00:20:31,260
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

143
00:20:47,700 –> 00:20:48,540
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

144
00:21:05,566 –> 00:21:13,437
[bruno_caron]: so while we’re on that that topic
of inplananuities um obviously we talked about the

145
00:21:13,497 –> 00:21:18,061
[bruno_caron]: comprehensive nature of you know your firm
your business and your your

146
00:21:18,099 –> 00:21:18,120
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

147
00:21:18,181 –> 00:21:18,762
[bruno_caron]: background

148
00:21:20,349 –> 00:21:20,370
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

149
00:21:21,044 –> 00:21:25,451
[bruno_caron]: assets on their management that’s a fairly
fairly easy concept for all of us to

150
00:21:25,551 –> 00:21:26,052
[bruno_caron]: understand

151
00:21:27,336 –> 00:21:27,499
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

152
00:21:27,414 –> 00:21:32,883
[bruno_caron]: but how how do you generate income
how do you see income being generated through

153
00:21:33,324 –> 00:21:38,914
[bruno_caron]: um you know through retirement how do
you view it obviously in this in this

154
00:21:38,994 –> 00:21:43,121
[bruno_caron]: particular environment where things have become a
little a little harder so

155
00:21:43,320 –> 00:21:43,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

156
00:21:44,924 –> 00:21:49,589
[bruno_caron]: how do you how do you advise
your clients to to you know decumulate and

157
00:21:50,410 –> 00:21:52,452
[bruno_caron]: generate income through through retirement

158
00:22:10,500 –> 00:22:10,763
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

159
00:22:22,200 –> 00:22:23,119
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

160
00:22:44,670 –> 00:22:48,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yah we

161
00:23:10,748 –> 00:23:10,808
[paul_tyler]: ah

162
00:23:22,538 –> 00:23:23,198
[paul_tyler]: oh

163
00:23:26,887 –> 00:23:27,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

164
00:23:30,180 –> 00:23:30,424
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

165
00:24:07,948 –> 00:24:08,109
[paul_tyler]: yeah

166
00:24:08,010 –> 00:24:08,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

167
00:24:08,189 –> 00:24:12,336
[paul_tyler]: well you mentioned scale paul and i
think this is kind of an advantage of

168
00:24:12,436 –> 00:24:17,083
[paul_tyler]: scale because you know i ally have
five clients it’s going to be those are

169
00:24:17,524 –> 00:24:22,497
[paul_tyler]: to be some pretty empty tiles um
now i remember again back to you know

170
00:24:22,858 –> 00:24:27,480
[paul_tyler]: two thousand this is ramsey bruno i
won’t name names you can imagine

171
00:24:27,210 –> 00:24:27,334
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

172
00:24:27,580 –> 00:24:27,961
[paul_tyler]: paul this

173
00:24:27,900 –> 00:24:29,040
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

174
00:24:28,001 –> 00:24:33,510
[paul_tyler]: was god can you believe some some
agency manager wants to do his own thing

175
00:24:33,590 –> 00:24:39,660
[paul_tyler]: he’s got this software c m outside
company he wants to put in here and

176
00:24:39,720 –> 00:24:46,812
[paul_tyler]: not do what we want what’s it
called sales force you know so you’ve been

177
00:24:47,253 –> 00:24:51,600
[paul_tyler]: you’ve been in sure tech before insure
tech is ed what kind of scale do

178
00:24:51,660 –> 00:24:57,770
[paul_tyler]: you have to have in order to
make those algorithm you know feed enough you

179
00:24:57,831 –> 00:25:01,437
[paul_tyler]: know agents so that your calls to
make

180
00:25:15,720 –> 00:25:15,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

181
00:25:47,877 –> 00:25:48,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

182
00:25:53,880 –> 00:25:54,122
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

183
00:25:57,180 –> 00:25:57,990
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

184
00:26:14,019 –> 00:26:15,852
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

185
00:26:43,560 –> 00:26:47,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh

186
00:27:05,910 –> 00:27:06,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

187
00:27:13,023 –> 00:27:13,125
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

188
00:27:32,289 –> 00:27:32,310
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

189
00:27:48,542 –> 00:27:54,337
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah right so so i’ve got sort
of one one parting question because we’re pretty

190
00:27:54,357 –> 00:27:58,064
[ramsey_d_smith]: much at the unfortunately i would love
to have you back because it’s actually more

191
00:27:58,124 –> 00:28:02,531
[ramsey_d_smith]: to talk about here but you know
so you have you’ve got in a fantastic

192
00:28:02,591 –> 00:28:07,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of growth growth goals you know
he said between now and twenty thirty m

193
00:28:08,681 –> 00:28:16,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul tyler had mentioned earlier of the
consolidation agregation we’re seeing in the business i

194
00:28:16,195 –> 00:28:17,698
[ramsey_d_smith]: think you’re still independent at this point

195
00:28:23,800 –> 00:28:23,961
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

196
00:28:39,751 –> 00:28:45,680
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i just it’s i can see
a world where you’re an acquirer or you

197
00:28:45,721 –> 00:28:49,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: can be either way sounds like with
the business you built you have a lot

198
00:28:49,347 –> 00:28:53,912
[ramsey_d_smith]: of option so um it’s probably a
bit of an impertinent question so i apologize

199
00:28:54,012 –> 00:28:59,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: but you know but very interested to
see you know how this progresses for you

200
00:28:59,698 –> 00:29:00,239
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the coming years

201
00:29:07,440 –> 00:29:08,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

202
00:29:19,479 –> 00:29:19,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

203
00:29:28,752 –> 00:29:28,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

204
00:29:37,448 –> 00:29:39,015
[paul_tyler]: yeah

205
00:30:00,174 –> 00:30:00,454
[bruno_caron]: yeah

206
00:30:06,763 –> 00:30:06,903
[bruno_caron]: yeah

207
00:30:10,089 –> 00:30:10,798
[paul_tyler]: oh this is great

208
00:30:10,814 –> 00:30:11,795
[bruno_caron]: paul tyler there’s a

209
00:30:11,819 –> 00:30:11,960
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:11,835 –> 00:30:15,438
[bruno_caron]: new podcast if i saw it correctly
coming up on

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00:30:15,758 –> 00:30:16,568
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:15,899 –> 00:30:17,320
[bruno_caron]: that exact topic if

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00:30:17,279 –> 00:30:17,420
[paul_tyler]: that’s

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00:30:17,480 –> 00:30:17,500
[bruno_caron]: i

215
00:30:17,520 –> 00:30:17,741
[paul_tyler]: right

216
00:30:18,862 –> 00:30:19,502
[bruno_caron]: if i saw it right

217
00:30:20,849 –> 00:30:25,638
[paul_tyler]: the prime life you know i’ll send
you a link it’s were our first for

218
00:30:25,858 –> 00:30:31,951
[paul_tyler]: palante doing a little more on the
consumer side um you know now trying to

219
00:30:31,991 –> 00:30:35,204
[paul_tyler]: reach the sixty plus group so i’ll
send you link

220
00:30:41,032 –> 00:30:41,192
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:44,277 –> 00:30:48,845
[paul_tyler]: yeah listen to hey it’s that’s you
know you never stopped learning write or experimenting

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00:30:49,286 –> 00:30:49,947
[paul_tyler]: you know paul so

223
00:31:09,969 –> 00:31:11,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

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00:31:18,750 –> 00:31:18,971
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

225
00:31:38,118 –> 00:31:41,484
[paul_tyler]: hey paul listen thank you so much
for your time you’re doing great stuff in

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00:31:41,524 –> 00:31:45,390
[paul_tyler]: the business and as ramsey said love
to have you back let’s

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00:31:45,804 –> 00:31:46,064
[bruno_caron]: yah

228
00:31:45,991 –> 00:31:51,380
[paul_tyler]: we’ll reach out and a lot more
to talk about bruno ramsey thanks so much

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00:31:51,680 –> 00:31:52,621
[paul_tyler]: and paul what’s

230
00:31:52,603 –> 00:31:52,743
[bruno_caron]: yah

231
00:31:52,661 –> 00:31:56,566
[paul_tyler]: the best way for people to either
learn more about barnum or get in touch

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00:31:56,606 –> 00:32:00,518
[paul_tyler]: with you oh

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00:32:06,438 –> 00:32:07,982
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right listen thanks

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00:32:07,944 –> 00:32:09,474
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:32:08,062 –> 00:32:11,550
[paul_tyler]: everybody thanks for our listeners hey thanks
paul

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00:32:13,644 –> 00:32:13,965
[bruno_caron]: oh

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00:32:15,188 –> 00:32:15,568
[paul_tyler]: hey thanks

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00:32:15,560 –> 00:32:16,309
[ramsey_d_smith]: much appreciated

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00:32:15,969 –> 00:32:16,870
[paul_tyler]: listen we really

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00:32:16,714 –> 00:32:16,895
[bruno_caron]: thank

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00:32:16,890 –> 00:32:16,970
[paul_tyler]: do

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00:32:16,935 –> 00:32:17,076
[bruno_caron]: you

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00:32:17,010 –> 00:32:23,076
[paul_tyler]: appreciate it thanks and listen join us
again next week for another episode of that

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00:32:23,156 –> 00:32:24,277
[paul_tyler]: annuity show thanks

 

 

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 170: The Future of Advice With Paul Blanco
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Episode 169: Should Interest Rate Changes Rewrite Retirement Product Recommendations with Dave Blanchett and Michael Finke

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For those of us in the business, it feels like interest rates have been rising every two weeks. Fixed rates and guaranteed income have gone up. However, other competing fixed income options have risen as well. How does this new environment reshape how we evaluate recommendations for our clients? We explore this topic and more with Michael Finke, Professor at The American College and David Blanchett, Head of Retirement Research at PGIM.

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:02,113 –> 00:00:06,062
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show get a

2
00:00:06,102 –> 00:00:10,051
[paul_tyler]: great great program some great guests bruno
welcome from canada

3
00:00:11,667 –> 00:00:13,210
[bruno_caron]: thank you good to be here

4
00:00:13,440 –> 00:00:13,842
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s your new

5
00:00:13,835 –> 00:00:13,938
[paul_tyler]: don

6
00:00:13,942 –> 00:00:14,184
[ramsey_d_smith]: office

7
00:00:13,999 –> 00:00:14,121
[paul_tyler]: hat

8
00:00:14,244 –> 00:00:14,485
[ramsey_d_smith]: bruno

9
00:00:15,354 –> 00:00:15,594
[bruno_caron]: it is

10
00:00:15,951 –> 00:00:16,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: nice

11
00:00:16,943 –> 00:00:17,206
[paul_tyler]: nice

12
00:00:17,116 –> 00:00:21,020
[bruno_caron]: people typically congratulate me on my plan
but you can do that it’s okay

13
00:00:20,953 –> 00:00:21,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: alright

14
00:00:23,214 –> 00:00:25,523
[paul_tyler]: all right ramsey tell us who do

15
00:00:25,461 –> 00:00:25,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: p

16
00:00:25,563 –> 00:00:27,550
[paul_tyler]: we have and what are we going
to talk about today

17
00:00:28,040 –> 00:00:32,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right paul thank you always glad
to be here so we are we’re very

18
00:00:32,206 –> 00:00:38,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: fortunate to be rejoined by two of
the most important voices in the retirement space

19
00:00:38,237 –> 00:00:39,719
[ramsey_d_smith]: david blanch shet and michael

20
00:00:39,403 –> 00:00:39,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

21
00:00:39,799 –> 00:00:42,203
[ramsey_d_smith]: fink so both of both of them
have we’ve been fortunate

22
00:00:42,103 –> 00:00:42,387
[paul_tyler]: oh

23
00:00:42,243 –> 00:00:44,607
[ramsey_d_smith]: to have them on the each of
them on the show at least once or

24
00:00:44,667 –> 00:00:50,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: twice and they can be seen very
frequently on linked in

25
00:00:50,173 –> 00:00:50,833
[paul_tyler]: yeah

26
00:00:50,337 –> 00:00:53,642
[ramsey_d_smith]: and in many other venues and in
webinars and and

27
00:00:53,803 –> 00:00:54,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

28
00:00:54,624 –> 00:00:55,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’ll hear at the end what

29
00:00:55,513 –> 00:00:55,754
[paul_tyler]: yeah

30
00:00:55,605 –> 00:00:57,929
[ramsey_d_smith]: the sort of heir next appearances will
be

31
00:00:58,003 –> 00:00:58,753
[paul_tyler]: yeah

32
00:00:59,191 –> 00:01:03,178
[ramsey_d_smith]: we we wanted to ring the back
on the show primarily because they’ve been posting

33
00:01:03,679 –> 00:01:09,509
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot lately about the different trends
in the space and so with that want

34
00:01:09,549 –> 00:01:14,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: to welcome david who is the head
of retirement research at p g i m

35
00:01:15,250 –> 00:01:20,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: and michael who is professor of wealth
and man both management rather at the american

36
00:01:20,939 –> 00:01:26,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: college of financial services so welcome back
to both you and let’s let’s just get

37
00:01:26,248 –> 00:01:28,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: into it you’ve posted on so many
things

38
00:01:29,314 –> 00:01:29,534
[bruno_caron]: yes

39
00:01:30,132 –> 00:01:33,836
[ramsey_d_smith]: what are the what are the two
or three areas that you think or getting

40
00:01:33,876 –> 00:01:33,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

41
00:01:33,937 –> 00:01:34,020
[bruno_caron]: ah

42
00:01:34,016 –> 00:01:37,519
[ramsey_d_smith]: most intense or should get the most
intense scrutiny right now in the retirement space

43
00:01:39,260 –> 00:01:40,011
[ramsey_d_smith]: david will start with you

44
00:01:40,732 –> 00:01:41,274
[david_blanchett]: but i was going to

45
00:01:41,305 –> 00:01:41,406
[michael_finke]: i’m

46
00:01:41,314 –> 00:01:41,495
[david_blanchett]: say you

47
00:01:41,446 –> 00:01:41,547
[michael_finke]: going

48
00:01:41,515 –> 00:01:41,595
[david_blanchett]: know

49
00:01:41,587 –> 00:01:41,627
[michael_finke]: to

50
00:01:41,635 –> 00:01:41,695
[david_blanchett]: the

51
00:01:41,667 –> 00:01:41,728
[michael_finke]: go

52
00:01:41,715 –> 00:01:41,916
[david_blanchett]: one thing

53
00:01:41,849 –> 00:01:41,909
[michael_finke]: and

54
00:01:41,936 –> 00:01:42,980
[david_blanchett]: that i’ve been

55
00:01:43,849 –> 00:01:45,019
[michael_finke]: ah

56
00:01:45,750 –> 00:01:46,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right

57
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[david_blanchett]: i gotta go first call on me
thank our plan

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: you’re just a knocking over each other
and the

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: right

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[ramsey_d_smith]: all

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[michael_finke]: go ahead

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[ramsey_d_smith]: right sorry

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[michael_finke]: go ahead david i’m the more voracious
one

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: so

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[paul_tyler]: ye

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[david_blanchett]: the one thing that i would just
say

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: is that we’re taking about

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[david_blanchett]: this before we started is just the
impact that the rise and bonyiels are having

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00:02:01,582 –> 00:02:01,702
[david_blanchett]: on

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00:02:01,666 –> 00:02:01,811
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:02:02,163 –> 00:02:05,929
[david_blanchett]: products across the net landscape just because
you know if you think about the way

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[david_blanchett]: that a lot of these products are
built it’s built using

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:02:08,634 –> 00:02:14,063
[david_blanchett]: bonils’there’s more there but so when we’ve
seen this dramatic rise and rates there’s just

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00:02:14,203 –> 00:02:14,584
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:02:14,363 –> 00:02:17,809
[david_blanchett]: dramatic improvement and change and kind of
the efficacy of products and so

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:02:18,290 –> 00:02:19,973
[david_blanchett]: i did a lot of research about
like

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00:02:20,293 –> 00:02:20,579
[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: riles and fees and just a whole
host of products last year it’s kind of

86
00:02:23,518 –> 00:02:26,523
[david_blanchett]: irrelevant now like i need a kind
of dust off everything i used to do

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00:02:26,684 –> 00:02:30,710
[david_blanchett]: because like the marginal value of a
lot of these a lot of these products

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[david_blanchett]: issued by life insures

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00:02:32,173 –> 00:02:32,421
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:02:32,173 –> 00:02:33,835
[david_blanchett]: really have i think a lot

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[paul_tyler]: i

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[david_blanchett]: better a lot

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: sexyerethan he

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[paul_tyler]: i

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00:02:36,679 –> 00:02:37,040
[david_blanchett]: were say

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: even a year ago

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: michael

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[michael_finke]: david let’s talk about fixed inexinuities because
this is something that i’ve

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[david_blanchett]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: been giving some thought to recently

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: and that is that you and i
have boated on research on fa basically the

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[michael_finke]: long term for or man resembles

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: that of a corporate

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: bond

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: over time it is we both have
discussed the fact that he is are in

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[michael_finke]: some sense like a bond substitute within
a portfolio this year really illustrated a unique

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[michael_finke]: aspect of f but i don’t think
people really

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: have given enough thought to and that
is that although they

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: capture much of that term premium and
a little bit of the credit premium over

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[michael_finke]: time that you would get from corporate
bonds they don’t suffer the same losses the

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[michael_finke]: corporate bond suffer so let’s just take
a moment and reflect on how well for

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[michael_finke]: example

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: the long term corporate

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: bond van guard f has

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: done in two thousand twenty two if

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: at the very beginning of the year
you decided hey interestrats are really low i’m

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[michael_finke]: going to try to eke out a
little bit of extra return for my bond

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: portfolio by taking term risk maybe also
gonna take a little bit of credit risk

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[michael_finke]: down thirty per cent in fact that
t f is down down more than thirty

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[michael_finke]: per cent and two thousand twenty two

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: if you

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: had instead decided to use a tea
as a bond alternative the guarantee would have

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00:04:04,929 –> 00:04:10,429
[michael_finke]: looked similar to the expected return on
those bond t f but

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: you have that principal protection aspect now
why is it that you get the principal

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[michael_finke]: protection aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michael_finke]: well the insurance company is investing in
those bonds and so the insurance

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: company in its general count has experienced
a mark to market loss in that

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[paul_tyler]: as

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[michael_finke]: bond portfolio

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: that you don’t have to

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: bear in fact

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: the insurance company has taken some of
that volatility

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: of the bond portfolio off your plate
while still

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: offering in the long term similar performance
the bond portion of your portfolio that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: fact that the insurance company is willing
to bear that risk

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[paul_tyler]: a

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[michael_finke]: and not transfer it to you as
the holder of the fixed in

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: extenuity that is a significant portfoli o
benefit and incorporating f

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: s versus using um you know using
them as a substitute for longer duration bonds

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[michael_finke]: than a portfolio

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[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s been i will tell you
this has been

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[michael_finke]: it

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: a wild ride and even if i
looked at you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: know what was the

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[bruno_caron]: ay

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[paul_tyler]: story the first or second

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

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[paul_tyler]: quarter versus third and fourth

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h

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[paul_tyler]: you know david michel has been so
different you know a lot of a lot

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[paul_tyler]: of products put in as you know
low volatility industries sort of do even the

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[paul_tyler]: best or the best hey we’re goin
t give you a steady return or better

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[paul_tyler]: then the market over a period of
time and not provide those bumps now of

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[paul_tyler]: course the markets were very be very
differently you know in the last eighteen eighteen

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[paul_tyler]: months going into sort of first or
second quarter because the most volatile stocks were

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[paul_tyler]: the ones that were producing biggest returns
they were taking out a lot of these

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[paul_tyler]: these ball control so i personally took
a lot calls and chats from from clients

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[paul_tyler]: who started to look at the statement
he said wait a second s m p

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[paul_tyler]: s gone up this much and this
much you’re only giving me this much and

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[paul_tyler]: we’re all sort of rubbing our hands
together saying what are we going to do

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[paul_tyler]: now the minute the market crashed michael
those calls stopped and in fact i know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[paul_tyler]: go on a bike ride and find
somebody i know from a long time ago

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[paul_tyler]: says paul i love my annuity

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: i love my annuity of the market
going down so it really has reenforced huge

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[paul_tyler]: you know part of the value prop
of a fixed and eccinuity i guess my

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[paul_tyler]: question will be is this temporary

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: or is this you know a more
permanent shift than how

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:06:31,850 –> 00:06:32,972
[paul_tyler]: people are looking at these products

202
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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[paul_tyler]: david

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[ramsey_d_smith]: mean

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[paul_tyler]: what’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: what

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[paul_tyler]: your

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[ramsey_d_smith]: do you

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[paul_tyler]: what’s your yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead

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[david_blanchett]: i think it depends upon where rates
headed you know

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00:06:40,560 –> 00:06:41,280
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: i have have no clue if you
told me

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[paul_tyler]: the

215
00:06:42,518 –> 00:06:44,722
[david_blanchett]: we’d have rats where they are right
now a year ago i would have laughed

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[david_blanchett]: in your

217
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:06:44,943 –> 00:06:47,687
[david_blanchett]: face like that’s that’s absurd i think
that the one thing that i think is

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00:06:47,747 –> 00:06:50,832
[david_blanchett]: interesting right now is this is to
michael’s point is like people are

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: really negative about surrender penalties and

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: things like that well insures are as
long as the insure can hold those bonds

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[david_blanchett]: that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: they use to hedge he risk to

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00:06:58,830 –> 00:06:59,012
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: maturity that’s okay right

229
00:07:00,810 –> 00:07:01,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

230
00:07:00,869 –> 00:07:04,535
[david_blanchett]: are like like you know enders we
they’rerally not like they allow individuals to

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00:07:04,680 –> 00:07:04,700
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:07:04,756 –> 00:07:06,218
[david_blanchett]: have access to certain premiums

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00:07:05,833 –> 00:07:08,293
[paul_tyler]: yeah

234
00:07:06,238 –> 00:07:07,079
[david_blanchett]: they couldn’t access

235
00:07:06,840 –> 00:07:06,860
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

236
00:07:07,180 –> 00:07:10,485
[david_blanchett]: otherwise so know michael is talking about
fixing news what about

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00:07:10,488 –> 00:07:10,508
[paul_tyler]: i

238
00:07:10,525 –> 00:07:13,710
[david_blanchett]: a mica i mean a mica is
just like a bond that you know maybe

239
00:07:13,891 –> 00:07:15,133
[david_blanchett]: s offering or four percent

240
00:07:15,000 –> 00:07:15,203
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

241
00:07:15,473 –> 00:07:18,418
[david_blanchett]: it didn’t get marked to market so
i think that you know a lot of

242
00:07:18,438 –> 00:07:22,926
[david_blanchett]: the aspects people might not like love
about annuities historically are really maybe going to

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[david_blanchett]: change i hope we’re in a a
longer rate environment for ever becase it’s a

244
00:07:26,572 –> 00:07:29,640
[david_blanchett]: lot of a lot of really cool
products lot of interesting

245
00:07:29,419 –> 00:07:29,522
[michael_finke]: ye

246
00:07:29,660 –> 00:07:32,247
[david_blanchett]: innovation moving forward that we wouldn’t have
if we’re in a lower ate environment

247
00:07:33,558 –> 00:07:34,139
[bruno_caron]: hey while we’re on

248
00:07:34,189 –> 00:07:34,370
[michael_finke]: yeah

249
00:07:34,200 –> 00:07:37,144
[bruno_caron]: that topic david can you discuss a
little bit about

250
00:07:38,124 –> 00:07:38,306
[paul_tyler]: yeah

251
00:07:38,427 –> 00:07:39,268
[bruno_caron]: the value of

252
00:07:39,883 –> 00:07:40,107
[paul_tyler]: yes

253
00:07:40,370 –> 00:07:45,399
[bruno_caron]: the lifetime income features on every single
one of those vehicles and the impact that

254
00:07:45,419 –> 00:07:46,602
[bruno_caron]: the market has had on

255
00:07:47,389 –> 00:07:47,632
[michael_finke]: oh

256
00:07:47,704 –> 00:07:50,951
[bruno_caron]: those particular on those particular writers and
benefits

257
00:07:52,133 –> 00:07:56,640
[david_blanchett]: so it’s complicated right so i think
that like certain certain annuities that provide live

258
00:07:56,660 –> 00:08:00,046
[david_blanchett]: time income more market responsive so like
sp is i’ve got a piece

259
00:07:59,983 –> 00:08:00,344
[paul_tyler]: yeah

260
00:08:00,066 –> 00:08:03,511
[david_blanchett]: of research in working rghtnowcanact you know
like looking at like how pay out rat

261
00:08:03,652 –> 00:08:05,795
[david_blanchett]: fespesandds evolve over time like

262
00:08:05,683 –> 00:08:05,931
[paul_tyler]: yes

263
00:08:05,855 –> 00:08:06,697
[david_blanchett]: very market responsive

264
00:08:06,313 –> 00:08:06,613
[paul_tyler]: yeah

265
00:08:06,757 –> 00:08:10,042
[david_blanchett]: right you know other products maybe a
little bit less but like collectively it should

266
00:08:10,062 –> 00:08:12,486
[david_blanchett]: all go up now what’s interesting about
about the

267
00:08:12,523 –> 00:08:13,213
[paul_tyler]: yeah

268
00:08:12,547 –> 00:08:16,894
[david_blanchett]: value of guaranteed income is that it
actually it’s worth the higher interest rates are

269
00:08:16,934 –> 00:08:21,642
[david_blanchett]: versus self annuitizing right because you can
actually generate more income from just holding tips

270
00:08:21,702 –> 00:08:24,526
[david_blanchett]: today just for example right but the
thing is i think that that

271
00:08:24,529 –> 00:08:24,714
[michael_finke]: yes

272
00:08:24,587 –> 00:08:29,475
[david_blanchett]: is actually outweighed by the behavioral benefit
that you get today from buying annuities that

273
00:08:29,655 –> 00:08:31,799
[david_blanchett]: pay out much higher i think a
lot of people were saying i’m going to

274
00:08:31,859 –> 00:08:35,044
[david_blanchett]: wait to buy an annuity until rates
are higher you know when michael and i

275
00:08:35,084 –> 00:08:38,049
[david_blanchett]: were telling everyone is telling a story
they’re actually worth more when rates are lower

276
00:08:38,410 –> 00:08:41,415
[david_blanchett]: no one could buy them but i
think now we have actually entered a space

277
00:08:41,475 –> 00:08:42,356
[david_blanchett]: where technically

278
00:08:41,940 –> 00:08:42,142
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

279
00:08:42,497 –> 00:08:47,486
[david_blanchett]: technically the value of the guarantee is
less but there’s less behavioral barriers to actually

280
00:08:47,586 –> 00:08:51,862
[david_blanchett]: buy the annuity because because payorachare is
so much more attractive ye

281
00:08:51,240 –> 00:08:51,930
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

282
00:08:53,530 –> 00:08:54,531
[michael_finke]: i mean the other aspect

283
00:08:54,595 –> 00:08:54,695
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

284
00:08:54,912 –> 00:08:58,959
[michael_finke]: bruno is if you would have retired
as a lot of people did at the

285
00:08:59,039 –> 00:09:00,341
[michael_finke]: end of two thousand twenty one

286
00:09:00,463 –> 00:09:00,978
[paul_tyler]: ye

287
00:09:00,601 –> 00:09:02,224
[michael_finke]: and you had some sort of a
lifetime

288
00:09:02,283 –> 00:09:02,465
[paul_tyler]: yeah

289
00:09:02,324 –> 00:09:03,366
[michael_finke]: income benefit

290
00:09:03,433 –> 00:09:05,323
[paul_tyler]: yeah

291
00:09:04,027 –> 00:09:05,329
[michael_finke]: on a variable note product

292
00:09:05,563 –> 00:09:05,885
[paul_tyler]: oh

293
00:09:05,690 –> 00:09:05,930
[michael_finke]: then

294
00:09:06,810 –> 00:09:07,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

295
00:09:07,092 –> 00:09:09,575
[michael_finke]: imagine someone who didn’t have that benefit

296
00:09:09,450 –> 00:09:09,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

297
00:09:10,056 –> 00:09:10,517
[michael_finke]: how they would

298
00:09:10,543 –> 00:09:11,323
[paul_tyler]: yeah

299
00:09:10,577 –> 00:09:12,870
[michael_finke]: be thinking about what to withdraw

300
00:09:13,003 –> 00:09:13,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

301
00:09:13,050 –> 00:09:16,095
[michael_finke]: from their investment tooartfolio over the course
of two thousand twenty

302
00:09:15,943 –> 00:09:16,603
[paul_tyler]: yeah

303
00:09:16,176 –> 00:09:16,316
[michael_finke]: two

304
00:09:17,053 –> 00:09:17,356
[paul_tyler]: oh

305
00:09:17,077 –> 00:09:20,623
[michael_finke]: if their investments are down by twenty
per cent and they have already been

306
00:09:20,623 –> 00:09:21,313
[paul_tyler]: yeah

307
00:09:20,683 –> 00:09:22,246
[michael_finke]: withdrawing save a million dollar

308
00:09:22,063 –> 00:09:22,753
[paul_tyler]: oh

309
00:09:22,326 –> 00:09:26,358
[michael_finke]: portfolio you started with a million box
you know maybe now you

310
00:09:26,400 –> 00:09:26,721
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

311
00:09:26,418 –> 00:09:30,841
[michael_finke]: have seven hundred and seventy five thousand
dollars maybe laugh you hoped that you could

312
00:09:30,921 –> 00:09:33,425
[michael_finke]: withdraw fifty thousand dollars a year from
your million dollar

313
00:09:33,210 –> 00:09:34,260
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

314
00:09:33,465 –> 00:09:39,776
[michael_finke]: portfolio now you’re significantly lower the risk
of withdrawing that fifty thousand dollars a year

315
00:09:39,916 –> 00:09:43,582
[michael_finke]: is significantly higher than it was at
the beginning of the year will you cut

316
00:09:43,682 –> 00:09:47,449
[michael_finke]: back well you go back now to
forty five thousand or forty thousand dollars thanks

317
00:09:47,569 –> 00:09:50,073
[michael_finke]: the true risk of not having that
income benefit

318
00:09:49,980 –> 00:09:50,221
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

319
00:09:50,133 –> 00:09:51,175
[michael_finke]: if you have the income benefit

320
00:09:50,893 –> 00:09:51,216
[paul_tyler]: yeah

321
00:09:51,215 –> 00:09:52,798
[michael_finke]: you know have to worry about it
i’m just going to

322
00:09:52,813 –> 00:09:53,115
[paul_tyler]: oh

323
00:09:52,838 –> 00:09:53,178
[michael_finke]: keep with

324
00:09:53,280 –> 00:09:53,502
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

325
00:09:53,539 –> 00:09:57,240
[michael_finke]: fifty thousand dollars from that investment portfolio
in the face

326
00:09:57,103 –> 00:09:57,431
[paul_tyler]: yeah

327
00:09:57,380 –> 00:10:02,388
[michael_finke]: of whatever head head wins i’m you
know experiencing all investors are experiencing and

328
00:10:02,328 –> 00:10:02,492
[paul_tyler]: yes

329
00:10:02,448 –> 00:10:06,295
[michael_finke]: it may mean that i deplete my
account faster but that’s okay that’s what that

330
00:10:06,335 –> 00:10:09,400
[michael_finke]: money is there for and that’s why
i also think it’s in ably important at

331
00:10:09,420 –> 00:10:13,787
[michael_finke]: the beginning of retirement to establish how
much of your portfolio you want to use

332
00:10:13,847 –> 00:10:17,694
[michael_finke]: for life style because then you don’t
feel bad about the fact that you’ve depleted

333
00:10:17,734 –> 00:10:20,759
[michael_finke]: the account if you have a lifetime
income benefit it’s just part of the did

334
00:10:20,819 –> 00:10:24,266
[michael_finke]: you and the question is you know
if you’re not you don’t have that then

335
00:10:24,327 –> 00:10:28,295
[michael_finke]: if it what does that imply in
terms of life style volatility

336
00:10:28,140 –> 00:10:28,860
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:10:28,355 –> 00:10:29,558
[michael_finke]: you have to be very flexible

338
00:10:31,744 –> 00:10:32,625
[bruno_caron]: i mean that makes

339
00:10:32,940 –> 00:10:33,223
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

340
00:10:33,006 –> 00:10:36,011
[bruno_caron]: a lot of sense i mean the
two of you have very vocal on the

341
00:10:36,331 –> 00:10:43,303
[bruno_caron]: sequence of return risk which is basically
what you just what you just explain how

342
00:10:43,804 –> 00:10:49,009
[bruno_caron]: how should you new retires view this
this risk in the light

343
00:10:49,050 –> 00:10:49,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

344
00:10:49,169 –> 00:10:51,912
[bruno_caron]: of you know this new economical context

345
00:10:53,646 –> 00:10:53,727
[paul_tyler]: ah

346
00:10:54,562 –> 00:10:56,766
[david_blanchett]: well i think we’ll be able to
take the answer to that about thirty years

347
00:10:56,806 –> 00:10:57,047
[david_blanchett]: from now

348
00:10:57,013 –> 00:10:57,617
[paul_tyler]: uh

349
00:10:57,087 –> 00:10:57,688
[david_blanchett]: right i think that there’s

350
00:10:57,630 –> 00:10:57,650
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

351
00:10:57,708 –> 00:10:58,208
[david_blanchett]: been a lot of great

352
00:10:58,222 –> 00:10:58,243
[paul_tyler]: h

353
00:10:58,269 –> 00:10:58,549
[david_blanchett]: studies

354
00:10:58,375 –> 00:10:58,537
[bruno_caron]: that’s

355
00:10:58,609 –> 00:11:00,352
[david_blanchett]: done using historical long term talking about

356
00:11:00,309 –> 00:11:00,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

357
00:11:00,372 –> 00:11:00,612
[david_blanchett]: you know

358
00:11:00,635 –> 00:11:00,817
[bruno_caron]: hello

359
00:11:00,660 –> 00:11:00,964
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

360
00:11:00,853 –> 00:11:01,933
[paul_tyler]: oh

361
00:11:00,973 –> 00:11:03,557
[david_blanchett]: i mean here’s the man we don’t
know we don’t know where markets

362
00:11:03,390 –> 00:11:04,080
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

363
00:11:03,597 –> 00:11:05,841
[david_blanchett]: are head i en maybe michael does
because he’s like really smart

364
00:11:06,106 –> 00:11:06,127
[paul_tyler]: i

365
00:11:06,282 –> 00:11:06,643
[david_blanchett]: i don’t know

366
00:11:06,604 –> 00:11:07,027
[bruno_caron]: oh

367
00:11:06,853 –> 00:11:07,843
[paul_tyler]: oh

368
00:11:07,023 –> 00:11:07,925
[david_blanchett]: and so what if this is just

369
00:11:07,933 –> 00:11:07,954
[bruno_caron]: h

370
00:11:07,965 –> 00:11:08,926
[david_blanchett]: the beginning what if what if

371
00:11:09,013 –> 00:11:09,613
[paul_tyler]: yeah

372
00:11:09,027 –> 00:11:10,249
[david_blanchett]: equities just go down for a

373
00:11:10,303 –> 00:11:11,476
[paul_tyler]: ye

374
00:11:10,309 –> 00:11:12,953
[david_blanchett]: decade right like this literally could be
the

375
00:11:13,119 –> 00:11:13,140
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

376
00:11:13,133 –> 00:11:17,320
[david_blanchett]: perfect post your child for sequence risk
and that bonds are down stocks are down

377
00:11:17,380 –> 00:11:21,247
[david_blanchett]: inflations of can’t pick a worse environment
like okay there’ve been periods where

378
00:11:20,970 –> 00:11:21,990
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

379
00:11:21,688 –> 00:11:25,374
[david_blanchett]: sixty forty portfolio does has done worse
but it’s hard to find an environment where

380
00:11:25,474 –> 00:11:28,018
[david_blanchett]: inflation has been where it is right
now and stocks

381
00:11:27,819 –> 00:11:27,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

382
00:11:28,058 –> 00:11:29,601
[david_blanchett]: and bonds are both down so i
think that

383
00:11:29,893 –> 00:11:30,787
[paul_tyler]: yeah

384
00:11:30,442 –> 00:11:33,067
[david_blanchett]: to me one thing i have to
this is kind of a check i think

385
00:11:33,107 –> 00:11:34,128
[david_blanchett]: for a lot of retires

386
00:11:34,153 –> 00:11:35,293
[paul_tyler]: yeah

387
00:11:34,208 –> 00:11:36,472
[david_blanchett]: where you know maybe if you haven’t
enjoyed

388
00:11:36,211 –> 00:11:36,354
[michael_finke]: yes

389
00:11:36,512 –> 00:11:39,778
[david_blanchett]: your experience so far things would always
get worse i’m not convinced that you

390
00:11:39,779 –> 00:11:39,800
[paul_tyler]: a

391
00:11:39,818 –> 00:11:42,582
[david_blanchett]: know normally i would say we’ll stay
the course but i don’t know only i

392
00:11:42,623 –> 00:11:42,883
[david_blanchett]: do know

393
00:11:42,819 –> 00:11:42,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

394
00:11:42,923 –> 00:11:44,826
[david_blanchett]: is that you know if you’re an
advisor out there listening

395
00:11:44,940 –> 00:11:45,247
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

396
00:11:45,227 –> 00:11:47,230
[david_blanchett]: you’ve got clients that have not enjoyed
you know

397
00:11:47,113 –> 00:11:47,863
[paul_tyler]: yeah

398
00:11:47,330 –> 00:11:50,876
[david_blanchett]: twenty twenty two so far maybe it’s
time to ask this question well is it

399
00:11:50,936 –> 00:11:52,819
[david_blanchett]: worth insuring part of what’s left

400
00:11:53,217 –> 00:11:53,237
[paul_tyler]: a

401
00:11:53,260 –> 00:11:58,249
[david_blanchett]: to insure things you get worse that
my clients have locked in now today a

402
00:11:58,309 –> 00:12:00,172
[david_blanchett]: lot higher income right so there is
this effect

403
00:11:59,893 –> 00:12:00,973
[paul_tyler]: oh

404
00:12:00,212 –> 00:12:01,314
[david_blanchett]: where if you buy bonds you

405
00:12:01,273 –> 00:12:01,963
[paul_tyler]: yeah

406
00:12:01,374 –> 00:12:01,835
[david_blanchett]: kind of hedge

407
00:12:01,680 –> 00:12:01,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

408
00:12:01,895 –> 00:12:05,360
[david_blanchett]: the income and that when bonds go
down interest payots go up

409
00:12:05,985 –> 00:12:06,086
[paul_tyler]: ah

410
00:12:06,202 –> 00:12:07,964
[david_blanchett]: now as the time it’s worth reassessing

411
00:12:07,874 –> 00:12:08,035
[paul_tyler]: yeah

412
00:12:08,925 –> 00:12:10,788
[david_blanchett]: is a investment driven strategy working

413
00:12:10,825 –> 00:12:11,736
[paul_tyler]: yeah

414
00:12:10,948 –> 00:12:12,870
[david_blanchett]: if not what other options are out
there

415
00:12:13,990 –> 00:12:15,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: so how are your various audiences

416
00:12:15,804 –> 00:12:15,968
[michael_finke]: yeah

417
00:12:16,153 –> 00:12:16,903
[paul_tyler]: yeah

418
00:12:16,372 –> 00:12:17,533
[ramsey_d_smith]: responding to that so

419
00:12:17,593 –> 00:12:17,975
[paul_tyler]: yeah

420
00:12:18,014 –> 00:12:19,135
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know you both you

421
00:12:19,333 –> 00:12:19,534
[paul_tyler]: oh

422
00:12:19,335 –> 00:12:23,018
[ramsey_d_smith]: re are out speaking at conference s
you’ve got webinars

423
00:12:24,253 –> 00:12:24,853
[paul_tyler]: yeah

424
00:12:24,960 –> 00:12:25,421
[ramsey_d_smith]: typically

425
00:12:25,235 –> 00:12:25,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

426
00:12:25,721 –> 00:12:27,885
[ramsey_d_smith]: like the composition of those audiences

427
00:12:27,523 –> 00:12:27,807
[paul_tyler]: yeah

428
00:12:27,965 –> 00:12:28,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: is it more

429
00:12:29,263 –> 00:12:30,463
[paul_tyler]: yeah

430
00:12:30,129 –> 00:12:31,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: insurance agents is it more

431
00:12:32,083 –> 00:12:32,345
[paul_tyler]: yeah

432
00:12:32,454 –> 00:12:34,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: is it more fenuciadvisors

433
00:12:33,900 –> 00:12:34,062
[paul_tyler]: yeah

434
00:12:35,950 –> 00:12:39,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: who are the sort of the whore
the various consistent with constituencies you talked to

435
00:12:39,540 –> 00:12:44,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: and how are they responding to these
to these changes anyway i assume i sum

436
00:12:44,382 –> 00:12:44,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: it comes

437
00:12:44,570 –> 00:12:44,953
[michael_finke]: ramsey

438
00:12:44,682 –> 00:12:45,003
[ramsey_d_smith]: out in the q

439
00:12:45,114 –> 00:12:45,255
[michael_finke]: just

440
00:12:45,224 –> 00:12:45,264
[ramsey_d_smith]: n

441
00:12:45,336 –> 00:12:45,356
[michael_finke]: a

442
00:12:45,344 –> 00:12:45,364
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

443
00:12:45,396 –> 00:12:45,719
[michael_finke]: week and a

444
00:12:45,705 –> 00:12:45,865
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

445
00:12:45,779 –> 00:12:46,202
[michael_finke]: half ago

446
00:12:47,108 –> 00:12:47,228
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

447
00:12:47,709 –> 00:12:53,347
[michael_finke]: i presented two presentations at napa which
is a fee only adviser conference

448
00:12:53,361 –> 00:12:53,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: yep

449
00:12:54,109 –> 00:12:59,202
[michael_finke]: i presented at napa maybe four years
ago i had some similar messageting in both

450
00:12:59,262 –> 00:13:03,630
[michael_finke]: presentations and i will tell you there
has been a sea change and openness towards

451
00:13:03,710 –> 00:13:05,633
[michael_finke]: the use of annuities among

452
00:13:05,652 –> 00:13:05,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:13:06,013 –> 00:13:06,474
[michael_finke]: fee only

454
00:13:06,459 –> 00:13:06,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

455
00:13:06,594 –> 00:13:08,518
[michael_finke]: advisers there’s an increasing

456
00:13:08,109 –> 00:13:08,130
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

457
00:13:08,598 –> 00:13:11,683
[michael_finke]: recogna and that if they’re going to
be a fiduciary they at least have to

458
00:13:11,723 –> 00:13:14,668
[michael_finke]: consider the use of annuities it’s not
just something that they can

459
00:13:14,739 –> 00:13:14,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

460
00:13:14,748 –> 00:13:19,055
[michael_finke]: exclude and feel like they’re always going
to be making a decision in the benefit

461
00:13:19,376 –> 00:13:24,524
[michael_finke]: of the client by exclude inganuities um
you know and then i also see statements

462
00:13:24,805 –> 00:13:30,194
[michael_finke]: such as i was just going on
line to a certain famous investment advisors site

463
00:13:30,715 –> 00:13:31,316
[michael_finke]: and he had

464
00:13:31,200 –> 00:13:31,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

465
00:13:31,376 –> 00:13:36,431
[michael_finke]: to quote on his site that there’s
nothing that you can do with annuities that

466
00:13:36,591 –> 00:13:39,922
[michael_finke]: i can’t do with investments and there
is not

467
00:13:39,962 –> 00:13:40,063
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

468
00:13:39,982 –> 00:13:44,496
[michael_finke]: a single economist who studies retirement income
planning who would agree with that state and

469
00:13:44,473 –> 00:13:44,696
[paul_tyler]: yeah

470
00:13:44,557 –> 00:13:45,910
[michael_finke]: it’s just demonstrably

471
00:13:45,343 –> 00:13:45,666
[paul_tyler]: yeah

472
00:13:45,789 –> 00:13:45,810
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

473
00:13:46,030 –> 00:13:46,390
[michael_finke]: false

474
00:13:46,736 –> 00:13:46,837
[paul_tyler]: it

475
00:13:47,152 –> 00:13:48,213
[michael_finke]: that attitude

476
00:13:47,944 –> 00:13:48,144
[bruno_caron]: yeah

477
00:13:48,514 –> 00:13:49,175
[michael_finke]: pervaded

478
00:13:49,355 –> 00:13:49,436
[paul_tyler]: ah

479
00:13:49,456 –> 00:13:49,736
[michael_finke]: i think

480
00:13:49,950 –> 00:13:50,191
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

481
00:13:50,197 –> 00:13:50,279
[paul_tyler]: ah

482
00:13:50,437 –> 00:13:50,998
[michael_finke]: this industry

483
00:13:50,743 –> 00:13:54,253
[paul_tyler]: yeah

484
00:13:51,078 –> 00:13:52,661
[michael_finke]: in many cases especially with the only

485
00:13:52,663 –> 00:13:52,804
[bruno_caron]: yeah

486
00:13:52,741 –> 00:13:56,487
[michael_finke]: industry that attitude has gone away as
far as i am concerned you know i’m

487
00:13:56,527 –> 00:14:00,254
[michael_finke]: not giving these intations i’m seeing a
new level of open it and it is

488
00:14:00,514 –> 00:14:04,140
[michael_finke]: really reassuring to see i think you
know both david and i come from a

489
00:14:04,220 –> 00:14:06,203
[michael_finke]: background where we have

490
00:14:06,043 –> 00:14:06,853
[paul_tyler]: yeah

491
00:14:06,324 –> 00:14:09,229
[michael_finke]: worked with investment advisors who are compensated

492
00:14:09,241 –> 00:14:09,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

493
00:14:09,309 –> 00:14:10,811
[michael_finke]: they on sieve we do

494
00:14:10,869 –> 00:14:10,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

495
00:14:10,891 –> 00:14:16,120
[michael_finke]: have a very fiduciary mind set the
word but we want to make sure that

496
00:14:16,441 –> 00:14:20,307
[michael_finke]: when advisors are making decisions that they’re
making decisions that are going to be in

497
00:14:20,347 –> 00:14:24,193
[michael_finke]: the best interest of it clint and
we’ve been arguing obviously for a long time

498
00:14:24,274 –> 00:14:26,016
[michael_finke]: that getting rid of this ideosandcradic

499
00:14:25,693 –> 00:14:26,773
[paul_tyler]: yeah

500
00:14:26,157 –> 00:14:30,223
[michael_finke]: engevity risk is an important part of
retirement income planning people can live better if

501
00:14:30,264 –> 00:14:36,212
[michael_finke]: they do it that way i’m seeing
a change frankly it’s reassuring and it’s great

502
00:14:36,293 –> 00:14:39,897
[michael_finke]: that the message is getting out there
but it’s also a message that needs to

503
00:14:39,957 –> 00:14:45,822
[michael_finke]: be couch and it’s something that you
know i think the insurance industry and i’m

504
00:14:45,862 –> 00:14:46,744
[michael_finke]: sure we’ve talked

505
00:14:46,634 –> 00:14:48,853
[paul_tyler]: right

506
00:14:46,784 –> 00:14:50,211
[michael_finke]: about this in the past but to
the extent that there can

507
00:14:50,203 –> 00:14:52,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

508
00:14:50,272 –> 00:14:54,479
[michael_finke]: be consistency in terms of sale practices
and messaging

509
00:14:54,330 –> 00:14:54,651
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

510
00:14:54,939 –> 00:14:56,422
[michael_finke]: i’m also seeing in the insurance

511
00:14:56,370 –> 00:14:56,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

512
00:14:56,462 –> 00:15:00,128
[michael_finke]: industry that they are hiring people who
deal with these types of advisors who are

513
00:15:00,168 –> 00:15:05,617
[michael_finke]: really or on how to use annuity
product efficiently for a client but i think

514
00:15:05,637 –> 00:15:12,088
[michael_finke]: that the industry as a whole really
has harmed itself in many ways by not

515
00:15:12,228 –> 00:15:16,033
[michael_finke]: rain and some of the more abusive
sales practices that we continue to see and

516
00:15:16,694 –> 00:15:19,738
[michael_finke]: it’s going to continue to color people’s
impressions of the industry

517
00:15:21,113 –> 00:15:23,698
[david_blanchett]: i mean so i would say i’m
seeing this as michael and

518
00:15:23,803 –> 00:15:24,063
[paul_tyler]: oh

519
00:15:23,818 –> 00:15:24,880
[david_blanchett]: the one point that i make to

520
00:15:24,832 –> 00:15:24,933
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

521
00:15:25,501 –> 00:15:26,302
[david_blanchett]: people when i talk about

522
00:15:26,494 –> 00:15:27,394
[bruno_caron]: yeah

523
00:15:26,502 –> 00:15:26,663
[david_blanchett]: anne

524
00:15:26,520 –> 00:15:26,932
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

525
00:15:26,593 –> 00:15:26,834
[paul_tyler]: yeah

526
00:15:26,763 –> 00:15:28,145
[david_blanchett]: use is like i’m not suggesting that

527
00:15:28,204 –> 00:15:28,466
[bruno_caron]: oh

528
00:15:28,205 –> 00:15:28,566
[david_blanchett]: all of your

529
00:15:28,620 –> 00:15:29,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

530
00:15:28,626 –> 00:15:29,868
[david_blanchett]: clients need an annuity

531
00:15:29,944 –> 00:15:30,145
[bruno_caron]: yeah

532
00:15:29,948 –> 00:15:31,471
[david_blanchett]: or maybe it’s less than like five
percent

533
00:15:31,723 –> 00:15:32,353
[paul_tyler]: oh

534
00:15:31,751 –> 00:15:33,274
[david_blanchett]: but it’s not zero and i think
that far

535
00:15:33,278 –> 00:15:33,298
[paul_tyler]: i

536
00:15:33,374 –> 00:15:34,295
[david_blanchett]: too many advisors

537
00:15:33,973 –> 00:15:35,173
[paul_tyler]: oh

538
00:15:34,396 –> 00:15:37,621
[david_blanchett]: that are doing retirement income planning is

539
00:15:37,560 –> 00:15:37,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

540
00:15:38,142 –> 00:15:38,222
[david_blanchett]: the

541
00:15:38,224 –> 00:15:38,944
[bruno_caron]: oh

542
00:15:38,282 –> 00:15:39,163
[david_blanchett]: number of their clients

543
00:15:39,060 –> 00:15:40,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

544
00:15:39,184 –> 00:15:41,748
[david_blanchett]: that have any kind of product that
provides guaranteed lifetime

545
00:15:41,533 –> 00:15:41,793
[paul_tyler]: yeah

546
00:15:41,828 –> 00:15:44,553
[david_blanchett]: income is zero and so i think
the goal to kind of get

547
00:15:44,593 –> 00:15:44,917
[paul_tyler]: yeah

548
00:15:44,613 –> 00:15:49,341
[david_blanchett]: them to kind of more actively considerate
and i do feel like we’re making positive

549
00:15:49,292 –> 00:15:49,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

550
00:15:49,381 –> 00:15:50,743
[david_blanchett]: steps but you know to be

551
00:15:50,745 –> 00:15:50,846
[paul_tyler]: ah

552
00:15:50,803 –> 00:15:54,129
[david_blanchett]: honest we haven’t made the steps thought
we would have five years ago hopefully the

553
00:15:54,169 –> 00:15:56,109
[david_blanchett]: next five years is better oh

554
00:15:57,681 –> 00:16:01,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right so before the call we
we touched briefly

555
00:16:00,856 –> 00:16:00,876
[bruno_caron]: m

556
00:16:01,267 –> 00:16:04,873
[ramsey_d_smith]: on the on the four percent rule
and that’s a that

557
00:16:04,804 –> 00:16:05,644
[bruno_caron]: oh

558
00:16:04,933 –> 00:16:05,113
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a

559
00:16:05,623 –> 00:16:06,150
[paul_tyler]: oh

560
00:16:05,854 –> 00:16:08,499
[ramsey_d_smith]: that discussion is a very regular refrain
on this

561
00:16:08,708 –> 00:16:08,810
[bruno_caron]: yes

562
00:16:09,100 –> 00:16:13,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: on this show so wanted to get
a sense first of what your what you’re

563
00:16:13,647 –> 00:16:17,033
[ramsey_d_smith]: both of your recent thoughts are on
the four percent role and it’s and it’s

564
00:16:17,674 –> 00:16:21,122
[ramsey_d_smith]: and it’s it’s rolled in the in
the personal financial man but

565
00:16:21,103 –> 00:16:21,447
[paul_tyler]: oh

566
00:16:21,163 –> 00:16:21,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: discussion

567
00:16:22,423 –> 00:16:23,383
[paul_tyler]: yeah

568
00:16:24,382 –> 00:16:24,644
[david_blanchett]: oh

569
00:16:24,560 –> 00:16:24,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’ll start with

570
00:16:24,909 –> 00:16:25,231
[michael_finke]: ramsey

571
00:16:25,002 –> 00:16:25,404
[ramsey_d_smith]: you michael

572
00:16:26,007 –> 00:16:26,170
[bruno_caron]: yes

573
00:16:27,029 –> 00:16:27,109
[michael_finke]: you

574
00:16:27,064 –> 00:16:27,346
[bruno_caron]: yah

575
00:16:27,149 –> 00:16:27,770
[michael_finke]: know i just gave

576
00:16:27,630 –> 00:16:28,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: yea

577
00:16:27,830 –> 00:16:28,772
[michael_finke]: a presentation

578
00:16:29,542 –> 00:16:29,683
[bruno_caron]: yah

579
00:16:29,914 –> 00:16:31,516
[michael_finke]: at tim co and

580
00:16:31,534 –> 00:16:31,756
[bruno_caron]: yeah

581
00:16:32,839 –> 00:16:34,662
[michael_finke]: at the very beginning of the presentation

582
00:16:34,376 –> 00:16:34,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

583
00:16:35,202 –> 00:16:40,592
[michael_finke]: there was an introduction by richard taylor
of the topic the four percent rule and

584
00:16:40,913 –> 00:16:41,113
[michael_finke]: his

585
00:16:41,164 –> 00:16:41,466
[bruno_caron]: my

586
00:16:41,354 –> 00:16:47,447
[michael_finke]: introduction was well everybody knows that the
four per cent rule is dumb you know

587
00:16:47,667 –> 00:16:51,203
[michael_finke]: ted richard taylor by the way is
a novel lariayouknow the father

588
00:16:50,970 –> 00:16:51,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

589
00:16:51,263 –> 00:16:53,467
[michael_finke]: of behavioral finance and his impression

590
00:16:53,115 –> 00:16:53,156
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

591
00:16:53,547 –> 00:16:53,848
[michael_finke]: of the four

592
00:16:53,829 –> 00:16:53,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

593
00:16:53,928 –> 00:16:55,791
[michael_finke]: percent rule is pretty much consistent with

594
00:16:55,650 –> 00:16:55,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

595
00:16:56,292 –> 00:16:56,572
[michael_finke]: the way a

596
00:16:56,554 –> 00:16:56,776
[bruno_caron]: oh

597
00:16:56,632 –> 00:16:59,457
[michael_finke]: lot of us have thought about it
for a long time it’s not so much

598
00:16:59,477 –> 00:16:59,577
[michael_finke]: that

599
00:16:59,619 –> 00:16:59,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:16:59,637 –> 00:16:59,677
[michael_finke]: it

601
00:16:59,674 –> 00:16:59,694
[bruno_caron]: m

602
00:16:59,717 –> 00:16:59,838
[michael_finke]: would

603
00:16:59,730 –> 00:16:59,971
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

604
00:17:00,439 –> 00:17:01,600
[michael_finke]: the original conception

605
00:17:01,241 –> 00:17:01,404
[paul_tyler]: yeah

606
00:17:01,741 –> 00:17:02,181
[michael_finke]: was dumb

607
00:17:02,149 –> 00:17:02,250
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

608
00:17:02,203 –> 00:17:02,953
[paul_tyler]: yeah

609
00:17:02,241 –> 00:17:02,802
[michael_finke]: in fact they made

610
00:17:02,674 –> 00:17:02,916
[bruno_caron]: oh

611
00:17:02,842 –> 00:17:03,503
[michael_finke]: a very good

612
00:17:03,422 –> 00:17:03,544
[bruno_caron]: yeah

613
00:17:03,644 –> 00:17:05,767
[michael_finke]: point bill began when he wrote the
paper and that

614
00:17:05,644 –> 00:17:05,664
[bruno_caron]: m

615
00:17:05,867 –> 00:17:11,837
[michael_finke]: is you can’t simply rely on average
returns to estimate what is safe with roll

616
00:17:11,764 –> 00:17:11,784
[bruno_caron]: m

617
00:17:11,897 –> 00:17:13,319
[michael_finke]: rated so you use historical

618
00:17:13,024 –> 00:17:13,044
[bruno_caron]: m

619
00:17:13,560 –> 00:17:18,708
[michael_finke]: united states returns et cetera and one
aspect of the four percent rule that got

620
00:17:18,788 –> 00:17:21,544
[michael_finke]: take up with this idea of a
fixed

621
00:17:21,960 –> 00:17:22,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

622
00:17:22,259 –> 00:17:27,544
[michael_finke]: spending amount from a volatile portfoltha ou
simply can’t do that can’t have a fixed

623
00:17:27,624 –> 00:17:29,345
[michael_finke]: spending amount from a volatile

624
00:17:28,959 –> 00:17:28,980
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

625
00:17:29,385 –> 00:17:31,407
[michael_finke]: portfolio because the portfolio rise

626
00:17:31,389 –> 00:17:31,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

627
00:17:31,467 –> 00:17:33,520
[michael_finke]: and fall over time and if it
falls

628
00:17:33,360 –> 00:17:33,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

629
00:17:33,600 –> 00:17:38,027
[michael_finke]: over time and you get a decade
for example like the one retires may be

630
00:17:38,107 –> 00:17:41,853
[michael_finke]: facing they’ve retired in two thousand twenty
one the reality is that they’re going to

631
00:17:41,893 –> 00:17:43,396
[michael_finke]: have to cut back on their spending

632
00:17:43,054 –> 00:17:43,294
[bruno_caron]: oh

633
00:17:43,539 –> 00:17:43,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

634
00:17:44,358 –> 00:17:44,638
[michael_finke]: in that

635
00:17:44,739 –> 00:17:44,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

636
00:17:45,139 –> 00:17:46,621
[michael_finke]: to some different variants

637
00:17:46,269 –> 00:17:47,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

638
00:17:46,681 –> 00:17:46,722
[michael_finke]: of

639
00:17:46,703 –> 00:17:46,864
[bruno_caron]: yeah

640
00:17:46,782 –> 00:17:48,164
[michael_finke]: the four percent rule that

641
00:17:48,150 –> 00:17:49,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

642
00:17:48,224 –> 00:17:50,748
[michael_finke]: created guard rails to allow clients

643
00:17:50,469 –> 00:17:50,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

644
00:17:50,848 –> 00:17:52,712
[michael_finke]: to adjust their spending upward or downward

645
00:17:52,645 –> 00:17:52,787
[paul_tyler]: what

646
00:17:53,052 –> 00:17:56,338
[michael_finke]: that’s probably a more realistic approach to
trying to develop a spending

647
00:17:56,319 –> 00:17:56,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:17:56,398 –> 00:18:02,628
[michael_finke]: plan from volatile portfolio but again it
also doesn’t address this idea of umlaungevity risk

649
00:18:03,129 –> 00:18:08,558
[michael_finke]: and it doesn’t really say anything about
what happens when you fail you know people

650
00:18:08,638 –> 00:18:12,489
[michael_finke]: run then marti carlo analysis and maybe
you have an eighty percent chance of success

651
00:18:12,509 –> 00:18:17,662
[michael_finke]: but there’s no information about how bad
things can get when you experience when you’re

652
00:18:17,762 –> 00:18:21,368
[michael_finke]: one of those twenty percent of retires
to experience failure and so i kind of

653
00:18:21,428 –> 00:18:27,318
[michael_finke]: is type like to us something called
a utility analysis where it recognizes that

654
00:18:27,274 –> 00:18:29,824
[bruno_caron]: yeah

655
00:18:28,019 –> 00:18:30,744
[michael_finke]: you know if you fail to spend
eight thousand dollars

656
00:18:30,810 –> 00:18:31,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

657
00:18:30,844 –> 00:18:31,104
[michael_finke]: a year

658
00:18:30,924 –> 00:18:30,985
[bruno_caron]: ah

659
00:18:31,645 –> 00:18:32,486
[michael_finke]: but the downside

660
00:18:32,313 –> 00:18:32,374
[bruno_caron]: ah

661
00:18:32,547 –> 00:18:33,749
[michael_finke]: is that you’re spending seventy thousand

662
00:18:33,570 –> 00:18:33,855
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

663
00:18:33,789 –> 00:18:38,416
[michael_finke]: dollars a year that’s okay that’s that’s
a much better failure than having to go

664
00:18:38,496 –> 00:18:40,099
[michael_finke]: from eight thousand to thirty thousand

665
00:18:40,059 –> 00:18:40,080
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

666
00:18:40,139 –> 00:18:41,201
[michael_finke]: dollars a year and live off

667
00:18:41,203 –> 00:18:41,504
[paul_tyler]: oh

668
00:18:41,261 –> 00:18:42,603
[michael_finke]: social security so

669
00:18:43,043 –> 00:18:43,590
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

670
00:18:43,264 –> 00:18:45,087
[michael_finke]: the gradation of life style

671
00:18:45,249 –> 00:18:45,270
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

672
00:18:45,548 –> 00:18:46,650
[michael_finke]: is what is captured

673
00:18:46,499 –> 00:18:46,561
[paul_tyler]: ay

674
00:18:46,710 –> 00:18:48,173
[michael_finke]: by using a utility analysis

675
00:18:47,788 –> 00:18:47,871
[paul_tyler]: ah

676
00:18:47,919 –> 00:18:47,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

677
00:18:48,233 –> 00:18:49,314
[michael_finke]: but it’s a little bit less

678
00:18:49,560 –> 00:18:49,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:18:49,815 –> 00:18:53,722
[michael_finke]: easy for advisors to understand output it
can optimize

680
00:18:53,319 –> 00:18:53,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

681
00:18:53,802 –> 00:18:58,971
[michael_finke]: but it can’t necessarily show you a
very compelling a vocative statistics like a failure

682
00:18:59,011 –> 00:18:59,752
[michael_finke]: rate but that

683
00:18:59,635 –> 00:18:59,656
[bruno_caron]: i

684
00:18:59,832 –> 00:19:00,353
[michael_finke]: failure rate

685
00:19:00,450 –> 00:19:01,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

686
00:19:00,814 –> 00:19:05,711
[michael_finke]: really neglects a lot of important information
and that should go into the retirement

687
00:19:05,353 –> 00:19:06,632
[paul_tyler]: oh

688
00:19:05,751 –> 00:19:06,495
[michael_finke]: planning process

689
00:19:07,303 –> 00:19:08,173
[paul_tyler]: oh

690
00:19:07,980 –> 00:19:12,368
[ramsey_d_smith]: well it seems to me that like
the way that the rule is used and

691
00:19:13,590 –> 00:19:16,054
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m being this is a rough rough
way of putting it but

692
00:19:16,505 –> 00:19:17,562
[paul_tyler]: yea

693
00:19:16,595 –> 00:19:19,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: it sort of described in a very
linear way and what you’re talking about is

694
00:19:19,483 –> 00:19:19,704
[paul_tyler]: yeah

695
00:19:19,720 –> 00:19:23,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: right has right the utility function as
a curve to it right

696
00:19:23,053 –> 00:19:23,295
[paul_tyler]: oh

697
00:19:23,466 –> 00:19:23,687
[ramsey_d_smith]: and

698
00:19:24,354 –> 00:19:24,516
[paul_tyler]: yeah

699
00:19:24,588 –> 00:19:26,832
[ramsey_d_smith]: to your point going from eighty to
seventy maybe means

700
00:19:26,713 –> 00:19:27,373
[paul_tyler]: oh

701
00:19:27,273 –> 00:19:27,854
[ramsey_d_smith]: right fewer

702
00:19:27,763 –> 00:19:28,024
[paul_tyler]: oh

703
00:19:27,874 –> 00:19:30,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: trips to the golf course but going
from seventy

704
00:19:30,424 –> 00:19:30,628
[bruno_caron]: oh

705
00:19:30,578 –> 00:19:31,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: to thirty it

706
00:19:31,935 –> 00:19:32,016
[paul_tyler]: ah

707
00:19:31,960 –> 00:19:33,283
[ramsey_d_smith]: means you know a lot more

708
00:19:33,274 –> 00:19:33,294
[bruno_caron]: m

709
00:19:33,303 –> 00:19:33,683
[ramsey_d_smith]: essentials

710
00:19:33,613 –> 00:19:34,393
[paul_tyler]: oh

711
00:19:33,743 –> 00:19:38,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: are you know are at risk um
know we had we had william began on

712
00:19:38,692 –> 00:19:39,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: the show some

713
00:19:39,643 –> 00:19:39,904
[paul_tyler]: yeah

714
00:19:39,653 –> 00:19:40,715
[ramsey_d_smith]: number of months ago and

715
00:19:40,834 –> 00:19:41,734
[bruno_caron]: oh

716
00:19:41,296 –> 00:19:42,999
[ramsey_d_smith]: one of the things that was really
remarkable as i

717
00:19:43,033 –> 00:19:43,274
[paul_tyler]: oh

718
00:19:43,039 –> 00:19:45,303
[ramsey_d_smith]: think that he would find common ground
with you and many of the things

719
00:19:45,283 –> 00:19:45,544
[paul_tyler]: oh

720
00:19:45,343 –> 00:19:47,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: you said he talked about spending

721
00:19:47,053 –> 00:19:47,338
[paul_tyler]: oh

722
00:19:47,306 –> 00:19:52,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: control is sort of a fundamental underlying
element that isn’t talked about enough um the

723
00:19:52,635 –> 00:19:53,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: four percent rule is i think it’s

724
00:19:54,394 –> 00:19:54,878
[paul_tyler]: i test

725
00:19:54,618 –> 00:19:54,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

726
00:19:54,656 –> 00:19:54,677
[michael_finke]: i

727
00:19:54,778 –> 00:19:57,803
[ramsey_d_smith]: view is it’s really good bench mark
and a good place to start a discussion

728
00:19:57,323 –> 00:19:57,504
[paul_tyler]: yeah

729
00:19:59,366 –> 00:20:00,668
[ramsey_d_smith]: and unfortunately

730
00:20:00,232 –> 00:20:00,514
[david_blanchett]: oh

731
00:20:00,768 –> 00:20:02,932
[ramsey_d_smith]: it has been sort of over utilized
as a

732
00:20:02,985 –> 00:20:03,085
[bruno_caron]: is

733
00:20:03,713 –> 00:20:03,914
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

734
00:20:05,674 –> 00:20:05,898
[bruno_caron]: yeah

735
00:20:06,318 –> 00:20:08,989
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s been used dogmatical in a way
i don’t think it was ever actually

736
00:20:08,985 –> 00:20:09,188
[bruno_caron]: yes

737
00:20:09,009 –> 00:20:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: meant to be meant to be applied

738
00:20:12,342 –> 00:20:12,402
[david_blanchett]: so

739
00:20:12,588 –> 00:20:12,709
[paul_tyler]: yeah

740
00:20:12,622 –> 00:20:15,026
[david_blanchett]: i mean real quick i mean all
all it tells you

741
00:20:14,974 –> 00:20:14,994
[bruno_caron]: m

742
00:20:15,647 –> 00:20:19,033
[david_blanchett]: is how much you need to have
saved when you retire it’s really you just

743
00:20:19,073 –> 00:20:20,075
[david_blanchett]: need twenty five times

744
00:20:19,849 –> 00:20:20,509
[michael_finke]: yeah

745
00:20:20,115 –> 00:20:22,980
[david_blanchett]: your income goal that’s all it’s ever
intended to do i think

746
00:20:22,949 –> 00:20:22,969
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

747
00:20:23,420 –> 00:20:23,981
[david_blanchett]: i think that

748
00:20:23,940 –> 00:20:24,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

749
00:20:24,222 –> 00:20:25,304
[david_blanchett]: that advice is still

750
00:20:25,500 –> 00:20:25,641
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

751
00:20:25,564 –> 00:20:27,167
[david_blanchett]: is still a decent rule of thumb

752
00:20:27,258 –> 00:20:27,399
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

753
00:20:27,327 –> 00:20:27,728
[david_blanchett]: i mean it’s

754
00:20:27,760 –> 00:20:27,901
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

755
00:20:27,768 –> 00:20:29,871
[david_blanchett]: obviously not optima for everyone i think

756
00:20:29,700 –> 00:20:29,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

757
00:20:29,991 –> 00:20:32,896
[david_blanchett]: the larger issue as michal points out
are the underling assumptions

758
00:20:32,889 –> 00:20:32,910
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

759
00:20:32,936 –> 00:20:37,364
[david_blanchett]: that have been used in that model
and other models as well they’ll still permeate

760
00:20:37,724 –> 00:20:41,050
[david_blanchett]: the advisors use today and i think
that you know using some of those assumptions

761
00:20:41,130 –> 00:20:41,591
[david_blanchett]: can lead to

762
00:20:41,550 –> 00:20:41,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

763
00:20:41,791 –> 00:20:45,758
[david_blanchett]: radically bad advice for advisors who are
doing these financial plans

764
00:20:45,570 –> 00:20:45,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

765
00:20:45,838 –> 00:20:50,367
[david_blanchett]: for individuals when focus on things like
the probe ability of success that totally ignores

766
00:20:50,407 –> 00:20:51,129
[david_blanchett]: the magnitude of fill

767
00:20:51,360 –> 00:20:51,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

768
00:20:52,794 –> 00:20:55,919
[paul_tyler]: well maybe talk we could talk a
little bit about

769
00:20:56,086 –> 00:20:56,187
[bruno_caron]: ah

770
00:20:56,120 –> 00:21:01,028
[paul_tyler]: you know advice in this period of
time i think of all the rules that

771
00:21:01,308 –> 00:21:01,729
[paul_tyler]: we’ve talked

772
00:21:01,599 –> 00:21:01,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

773
00:21:01,749 –> 00:21:05,736
[paul_tyler]: about things like don’t try to time
the mark well should you try the time

774
00:21:05,776 –> 00:21:07,178
[paul_tyler]: to interest environment

775
00:21:07,209 –> 00:21:07,230
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

776
00:21:07,579 –> 00:21:09,181
[paul_tyler]: right the interest rate and why should
i try

777
00:21:09,229 –> 00:21:09,493
[michael_finke]: my

778
00:21:09,262 –> 00:21:09,342
[paul_tyler]: to

779
00:21:09,579 –> 00:21:09,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

780
00:21:09,983 –> 00:21:16,434
[paul_tyler]: should i try to time the guaranteed
income market i never would have expected we

781
00:21:16,594 –> 00:21:24,988
[paul_tyler]: see such change dave that we talked
about earlier in income interest rates um and

782
00:21:25,068 –> 00:21:26,470
[paul_tyler]: just to give you a little bit
of color

783
00:21:26,169 –> 00:21:26,251
[bruno_caron]: ah

784
00:21:27,212 –> 00:21:27,352
[paul_tyler]: we’ve

785
00:21:27,299 –> 00:21:27,421
[bruno_caron]: is

786
00:21:27,392 –> 00:21:30,056
[paul_tyler]: had so much activity you knows a
car as carriers

787
00:21:30,240 –> 00:21:30,664
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:21:30,637 –> 00:21:34,864
[paul_tyler]: trying to keep up with rates and
deliver now value consumers an agent the same

789
00:21:34,924 –> 00:21:37,108
[paul_tyler]: time agents have used this and advisers

790
00:21:36,630 –> 00:21:36,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

791
00:21:36,810 –> 00:21:37,051
[bruno_caron]: yes

792
00:21:37,168 –> 00:21:40,894
[paul_tyler]: are using this opportunity to go back
and say you know you were in this

793
00:21:40,954 –> 00:21:46,043
[paul_tyler]: product you were in this plan will
move you to hear um carries there’s a

794
00:21:46,063 –> 00:21:48,046
[paul_tyler]: tremendous backlog in carriers

795
00:21:48,930 –> 00:21:49,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

796
00:21:48,988 –> 00:21:53,415
[paul_tyler]: a lot of this a lot of
the money is coming from retirement accounts investment

797
00:21:53,455 –> 00:21:55,579
[paul_tyler]: accounts and they may have started

798
00:21:55,474 –> 00:21:55,836
[bruno_caron]: oh

799
00:21:55,639 –> 00:22:00,156
[paul_tyler]: a conversation with a with their advisor
two months ago the money hasn’t transferred yet

800
00:22:01,097 –> 00:22:02,179
[paul_tyler]: and the balances are down

801
00:22:02,250 –> 00:22:02,970
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

802
00:22:03,141 –> 00:22:07,007
[paul_tyler]: so it’s really this really strange hurry
up and weight

803
00:22:07,020 –> 00:22:07,349
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

804
00:22:07,127 –> 00:22:12,336
[paul_tyler]: i mean what would your advice be
and all as david and michael to advisors

805
00:22:12,436 –> 00:22:14,660
[paul_tyler]: who are in that transition point

806
00:22:14,401 –> 00:22:14,522
[michael_finke]: or

807
00:22:14,800 –> 00:22:19,047
[paul_tyler]: at this moment with a client trying
to move them from a market based you

808
00:22:19,087 –> 00:22:19,488
[paul_tyler]: know from

809
00:22:19,919 –> 00:22:19,999
[michael_finke]: we

810
00:22:20,930 –> 00:22:22,292
[paul_tyler]: equity exposure into it

811
00:22:22,449 –> 00:22:22,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:22:22,474 –> 00:22:22,857
[paul_tyler]: guaranteed

813
00:22:22,661 –> 00:22:22,702
[michael_finke]: a

814
00:22:22,897 –> 00:22:23,502
[paul_tyler]: income space

815
00:22:24,973 –> 00:22:25,293
[david_blanchett]: so the one

816
00:22:25,223 –> 00:22:25,364
[paul_tyler]: yeah

817
00:22:25,313 –> 00:22:25,574
[david_blanchett]: thing that

818
00:22:25,800 –> 00:22:25,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

819
00:22:25,955 –> 00:22:29,142
[david_blanchett]: i think is a bit different now
versus like where we were in early twenty

820
00:22:29,222 –> 00:22:31,287
[david_blanchett]: twenty is that they weren’t necessarily

821
00:22:30,904 –> 00:22:30,924
[bruno_caron]: m

822
00:22:31,327 –> 00:22:34,453
[david_blanchett]: very good you know safe options that
now

823
00:22:34,543 –> 00:22:34,564
[bruno_caron]: m

824
00:22:34,554 –> 00:22:38,460
[david_blanchett]: you can get my guess yielding five
per cent the caps on fees spectacular i

825
00:22:38,520 –> 00:22:43,108
[david_blanchett]: think that you know that i always
worry about investors staying the course right

826
00:22:43,003 –> 00:22:43,227
[paul_tyler]: yes

827
00:22:43,448 –> 00:22:47,956
[david_blanchett]: but it’s always kind of dorbydory or
do i stick with the balance portfolio or

828
00:22:48,016 –> 00:22:50,320
[david_blanchett]: do i move to something else that
may be more secure well now

829
00:22:50,889 –> 00:22:50,910
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

830
00:22:51,281 –> 00:22:54,787
[david_blanchett]: i do think it’s worth having conversations
and say hey you know the markets might

831
00:22:54,847 –> 00:22:57,292
[david_blanchett]: rally they have rallied so far that
they might rally last month

832
00:22:57,189 –> 00:22:57,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

833
00:22:57,393 –> 00:22:58,504
[david_blanchett]: i rally michael down again

834
00:22:58,744 –> 00:22:58,926
[bruno_caron]: oh

835
00:22:59,622 –> 00:23:00,223
[david_blanchett]: how do you feel

836
00:23:00,279 –> 00:23:00,300
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

837
00:23:00,283 –> 00:23:01,485
[david_blanchett]: about your current your current

838
00:23:01,294 –> 00:23:02,134
[bruno_caron]: yeah

839
00:23:01,545 –> 00:23:05,492
[david_blanchett]: strategy and i think that now more
than ever you know it’s worth advisors understanding

840
00:23:05,400 –> 00:23:05,420
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

841
00:23:05,512 –> 00:23:09,238
[david_blanchett]: where these products it because what worries
me is that someone looked at apia you

842
00:23:09,278 –> 00:23:12,346
[david_blanchett]: know a year ago and they hated
it and they don’t real how the market

843
00:23:12,406 –> 00:23:13,652
[david_blanchett]: has evolved radically

844
00:23:13,873 –> 00:23:14,713
[paul_tyler]: yeah

845
00:23:14,174 –> 00:23:14,636
[david_blanchett]: over that last

846
00:23:14,580 –> 00:23:14,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

847
00:23:14,696 –> 00:23:14,837
[david_blanchett]: year

848
00:23:14,983 –> 00:23:16,003
[paul_tyler]: yeah

849
00:23:16,579 –> 00:23:18,911
[michael_finke]: yeah if you’re thinking in terms

850
00:23:18,853 –> 00:23:19,513
[paul_tyler]: yeah

851
00:23:18,971 –> 00:23:23,078
[michael_finke]: of timing interest rates it’s not a
bad idea to look at where the yield

852
00:23:23,158 –> 00:23:26,704
[michael_finke]: curve is right now because the markets
telling you what the expectations

853
00:23:26,550 –> 00:23:26,712
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

854
00:23:26,844 –> 00:23:27,826
[michael_finke]: are for interest

855
00:23:27,703 –> 00:23:27,724
[bruno_caron]: m

856
00:23:27,866 –> 00:23:31,973
[michael_finke]: rates going forward and it is that
they will fall i mean it’s not a

857
00:23:32,053 –> 00:23:32,914
[michael_finke]: perfect predictor

858
00:23:32,910 –> 00:23:33,540
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

859
00:23:32,974 –> 00:23:34,336
[michael_finke]: of interest rates but

860
00:23:34,170 –> 00:23:34,352
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

861
00:23:34,817 –> 00:23:39,465
[michael_finke]: you know the ten year is significantly
lower than the one year or two year

862
00:23:40,467 –> 00:23:41,148
[michael_finke]: treasury so

863
00:23:41,799 –> 00:23:41,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

864
00:23:42,009 –> 00:23:44,513
[michael_finke]: it’s telling you that the market is

865
00:23:44,494 –> 00:23:45,184
[bruno_caron]: yeah

866
00:23:44,594 –> 00:23:46,116
[michael_finke]: expecting this to be a temporary

867
00:23:46,084 –> 00:23:46,326
[bruno_caron]: oh

868
00:23:46,256 –> 00:23:50,704
[michael_finke]: short phenomenon of high interest rates to
sort of flow down the rate of inflation

869
00:23:51,645 –> 00:23:56,233
[michael_finke]: and it’s a retire you can take
vantage fees i mean if i just looked

870
00:23:56,273 –> 00:24:01,021
[michael_finke]: at five year mica yesterday and they
were five point two percent from high quality

871
00:24:01,361 –> 00:24:01,802
[michael_finke]: insures

872
00:24:02,010 –> 00:24:02,532
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

873
00:24:02,303 –> 00:24:05,569
[michael_finke]: if you can lock in your five
year liability

874
00:24:05,400 –> 00:24:06,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

875
00:24:05,669 –> 00:24:10,455
[michael_finke]: is using a five point two per
cent rate retirement income is a lot less

876
00:24:10,555 –> 00:24:11,577
[michael_finke]: expensive than it was

877
00:24:11,610 –> 00:24:11,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

878
00:24:11,777 –> 00:24:12,358
[michael_finke]: a year ago

879
00:24:12,763 –> 00:24:12,784
[bruno_caron]: m

880
00:24:13,314 –> 00:24:13,820
[paul_tyler]: oh

881
00:24:13,399 –> 00:24:17,765
[michael_finke]: you know if it’s good enough if
if that will help you meet your liabilities

882
00:24:17,805 –> 00:24:17,925
[michael_finke]: you’re

883
00:24:17,820 –> 00:24:17,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

884
00:24:17,945 –> 00:24:22,541
[michael_finke]: expected liabilities and retirement at a much
lower cost it might be worth locking those

885
00:24:22,657 –> 00:24:22,738
[paul_tyler]: this

886
00:24:22,781 –> 00:24:22,902
[michael_finke]: in

887
00:24:22,839 –> 00:24:22,960
[paul_tyler]: coup

888
00:24:23,042 –> 00:24:23,362
[michael_finke]: today

889
00:24:23,233 –> 00:24:23,455
[paul_tyler]: yeah

890
00:24:23,523 –> 00:24:25,887
[michael_finke]: who knows none of us know where
interest rates are going to go

891
00:24:26,083 –> 00:24:27,283
[paul_tyler]: oh

892
00:24:26,467 –> 00:24:27,409
[michael_finke]: but this

893
00:24:27,283 –> 00:24:27,973
[paul_tyler]: yeah

894
00:24:27,469 –> 00:24:29,252
[michael_finke]: really is an asset liability

895
00:24:29,070 –> 00:24:29,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

896
00:24:29,312 –> 00:24:31,917
[michael_finke]: match exercise that’s what retirement and come
planning is all about

897
00:24:31,920 –> 00:24:31,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

898
00:24:32,297 –> 00:24:32,718
[michael_finke]: and right now

899
00:24:32,713 –> 00:24:33,373
[paul_tyler]: yeah

900
00:24:32,778 –> 00:24:36,905
[michael_finke]: it takes we’re at to meet those
spending liabilities now the liabilities may have gone

901
00:24:36,965 –> 00:24:38,467
[michael_finke]: up also because of inflation but

902
00:24:38,469 –> 00:24:38,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

903
00:24:39,349 –> 00:24:39,569
[michael_finke]: you know

904
00:24:39,573 –> 00:24:39,759
[paul_tyler]: yes

905
00:24:39,910 –> 00:24:40,070
[michael_finke]: it’s

906
00:24:40,149 –> 00:24:40,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

907
00:24:40,591 –> 00:24:43,937
[michael_finke]: a lot of people have a mix
of inflation adjusted and nominal

908
00:24:43,590 –> 00:24:44,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

909
00:24:43,693 –> 00:24:43,934
[paul_tyler]: yeah

910
00:24:43,977 –> 00:24:47,282
[michael_finke]: liabilities for example texas my property taxes

911
00:24:47,379 –> 00:24:47,400
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:24:47,382 –> 00:24:48,765
[michael_finke]: after after i retire

913
00:24:49,243 –> 00:24:50,383
[paul_tyler]: yeah

914
00:24:49,245 –> 00:24:52,711
[michael_finke]: are going to be fixed so they’re
gonna be held constant that is a nominal

915
00:24:52,560 –> 00:24:52,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:24:52,771 –> 00:24:55,496
[michael_finke]: expense i can get rid of that’s
a nominal liability

917
00:24:55,333 –> 00:24:55,618
[paul_tyler]: oh

918
00:24:55,440 –> 00:24:56,190
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

919
00:24:55,576 –> 00:24:58,440
[michael_finke]: if we get rid of that with
a nominal invent man you know i can

920
00:24:58,480 –> 00:25:01,945
[michael_finke]: delay social security to deal with my
more inflation

921
00:25:01,959 –> 00:25:01,980
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

922
00:25:02,046 –> 00:25:07,054
[michael_finke]: adjusted types of expenses but you know
it is all asset liability matching in the

923
00:25:07,074 –> 00:25:07,815
[michael_finke]: markets giving you a

924
00:25:07,830 –> 00:25:08,790
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

925
00:25:07,855 –> 00:25:10,082
[michael_finke]: lot more these days than it did
in the recent as

926
00:25:12,325 –> 00:25:18,335
[bruno_caron]: well while while we’re on that topic
i know one of the critics to you

927
00:25:18,375 –> 00:25:25,346
[bruno_caron]: know to lifetime income protected lifetime income
is you know is the the inflation protection

928
00:25:26,128 –> 00:25:27,590
[bruno_caron]: um what do you say

929
00:25:27,853 –> 00:25:28,080
[paul_tyler]: yeah

930
00:25:27,890 –> 00:25:35,062
[bruno_caron]: to to those folks who you know
would go against any protected lifetime

931
00:25:34,740 –> 00:25:34,981
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

932
00:25:35,143 –> 00:25:35,463
[bruno_caron]: income

933
00:25:35,653 –> 00:25:36,403
[paul_tyler]: oh

934
00:25:36,148 –> 00:25:36,309
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

935
00:25:36,164 –> 00:25:39,330
[bruno_caron]: uh just based on that that inflation
factor

936
00:25:42,343 –> 00:25:46,490
[david_blanchett]: so i would say that i mean
again it’s different in every country run but

937
00:25:46,570 –> 00:25:46,870
[david_blanchett]: in you

938
00:25:46,804 –> 00:25:47,126
[bruno_caron]: oh

939
00:25:46,910 –> 00:25:50,376
[david_blanchett]: know the u s we have a
asocisecurty system that hat is explicitly linked to

940
00:25:50,436 –> 00:25:54,142
[david_blanchett]: inflation right so and i think that
you have set of

941
00:25:54,313 –> 00:25:54,599
[paul_tyler]: oh

942
00:25:54,964 –> 00:26:00,112
[david_blanchett]: real or inflation adjusted lifetime income to
michael’s point not all of someone’s liabilities have

943
00:26:00,152 –> 00:26:03,618
[david_blanchett]: to be matched to inflation so i
think that yes it isn’t it isn’t like

944
00:26:03,678 –> 00:26:07,324
[david_blanchett]: the best thing in the world but
you can’t buy the explicit inflation hedge with

945
00:26:07,485 –> 00:26:11,892
[david_blanchett]: other guaranteed income but there are there
are emerging set of products that exist today

946
00:26:12,353 –> 00:26:15,879
[david_blanchett]: that do provide at least an implicit
hedgewherethere’s a possibility of a benefit rise of

947
00:26:15,939 –> 00:26:16,720
[david_blanchett]: inflation is higher

948
00:26:16,804 –> 00:26:17,046
[bruno_caron]: oh

949
00:26:17,021 –> 00:26:20,964
[david_blanchett]: but i guess you know if every
if every american didn’t already have

950
00:26:21,030 –> 00:26:22,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

951
00:26:21,265 –> 00:26:22,926
[david_blanchett]: lifetime guaranteed income

952
00:26:22,804 –> 00:26:23,025
[bruno_caron]: oh

953
00:26:23,026 –> 00:26:23,407
[david_blanchett]: explicitly

954
00:26:23,123 –> 00:26:23,184
[paul_tyler]: he

955
00:26:23,427 –> 00:26:26,189
[david_blanchett]: linked to inflation i would be a
lot more worried about it but i think

956
00:26:26,369 –> 00:26:28,011
[david_blanchett]: people make that argument to view

957
00:26:28,929 –> 00:26:28,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:26:29,112 –> 00:26:34,792
[david_blanchett]: the liability the assets in their entirety
versus an isolation m

959
00:26:35,609 –> 00:26:35,869
[michael_finke]: we should

960
00:26:35,713 –> 00:26:36,373
[paul_tyler]: yeah

961
00:26:35,909 –> 00:26:36,089
[michael_finke]: also

962
00:26:36,043 –> 00:26:36,163
[ramsey_d_smith]: all

963
00:26:36,189 –> 00:26:36,449
[michael_finke]: mention

964
00:26:36,223 –> 00:26:36,423
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

965
00:26:36,529 –> 00:26:36,650
[michael_finke]: that

966
00:26:36,544 –> 00:26:36,644
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

967
00:26:36,690 –> 00:26:38,071
[michael_finke]: there is some product

968
00:26:38,006 –> 00:26:38,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead

969
00:26:38,191 –> 00:26:42,495
[michael_finke]: innovation in this space that for example
find g has come out with a fixed

970
00:26:42,575 –> 00:26:48,232
[michael_finke]: indexed annuity that does happen at five
percent inflation increase in the amount of guaranteed

971
00:26:48,292 –> 00:26:48,692
[michael_finke]: income that

972
00:26:48,690 –> 00:26:48,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

973
00:26:48,713 –> 00:26:50,876
[michael_finke]: you can receive so it’s really the
first fixed

974
00:26:50,734 –> 00:26:50,977
[bruno_caron]: oh

975
00:26:50,916 –> 00:26:56,425
[michael_finke]: into excenuity that i’ve seen with some
sort of an inflation linked income benefit guarantee

976
00:26:57,307 –> 00:27:00,104
[michael_finke]: be great to see a it more
innovation in that space i think

977
00:27:02,793 –> 00:27:02,933
[paul_tyler]: yeah

978
00:27:02,985 –> 00:27:03,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: well

979
00:27:03,133 –> 00:27:06,359
[paul_tyler]: it’s very expensive at this point michael
you know to come out with

980
00:27:06,549 –> 00:27:06,672
[michael_finke]: yeah

981
00:27:06,619 –> 00:27:10,486
[paul_tyler]: a product with value you want you
you want to sell when there’s not inflation

982
00:27:12,209 –> 00:27:12,329
[paul_tyler]: it’s

983
00:27:12,604 –> 00:27:13,624
[bruno_caron]: yeah

984
00:27:12,830 –> 00:27:16,699
[paul_tyler]: it’s very expensive one when we’re in
middle of it but your points well taken

985
00:27:16,980 –> 00:27:18,284
[paul_tyler]: so ramsey or does this

986
00:27:18,210 –> 00:27:19,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

987
00:27:18,364 –> 00:27:18,705
[paul_tyler]: leave us

988
00:27:19,881 –> 00:27:24,009
[ramsey_d_smith]: so look this as always this has
been a this has been a great discussion

989
00:27:24,070 –> 00:27:27,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think it would be great to
great to get a sense for you know

990
00:27:27,357 –> 00:27:32,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: where people can see you in the
near term webinar’s appearances

991
00:27:32,728 –> 00:27:32,749
[michael_finke]: m

992
00:27:33,718 –> 00:27:39,708
[ramsey_d_smith]: and you’ve been posting very prolifically on
linked in a lot of important stuff where

993
00:27:39,728 –> 00:27:42,337
[ramsey_d_smith]: should people look to you’re your latest
going forward

994
00:27:45,671 –> 00:27:45,977
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead dave

995
00:27:46,972 –> 00:27:49,036
[david_blanchett]: yeah so i mean i would say
that if you want to want to follow

996
00:27:49,076 –> 00:27:51,440
[david_blanchett]: me like the best place is linked
in i’m pretty active there

997
00:27:52,002 –> 00:27:52,022
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

998
00:27:52,822 –> 00:27:55,787
[david_blanchett]: but yeah so you know i usually
share hot thoughts i’m pretty honest

999
00:27:56,040 –> 00:27:56,342
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:27:56,248 –> 00:27:57,911
[david_blanchett]: always willing to engage in a good
conversation too

1001
00:27:58,414 –> 00:27:58,818
[bruno_caron]: oh

1002
00:27:58,492 –> 00:27:58,846
[david_blanchett]: yeah

1003
00:27:59,983 –> 00:28:00,608
[ramsey_d_smith]: right michael

1004
00:28:00,544 –> 00:28:00,766
[bruno_caron]: oh

1005
00:28:00,769 –> 00:28:05,016
[michael_finke]: i think you ramsey you can follow
me on twitter at bank on finance and

1006
00:28:05,877 –> 00:28:06,839
[michael_finke]: we have a podcast

1007
00:28:06,540 –> 00:28:07,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1008
00:28:06,959 –> 00:28:07,460
[michael_finke]: david and i

1009
00:28:07,870 –> 00:28:07,890
[bruno_caron]: m

1010
00:28:07,940 –> 00:28:08,101
[michael_finke]: and

1011
00:28:08,070 –> 00:28:09,180
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1012
00:28:09,503 –> 00:28:13,332
[michael_finke]: have a league to our podcast both
on lake and twitter you can give it

1013
00:28:13,372 –> 00:28:14,016
[michael_finke]: a lesson if you like

1014
00:28:14,944 –> 00:28:15,934
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1015
00:28:15,083 –> 00:28:15,403
[paul_tyler]: terrific

1016
00:28:15,420 –> 00:28:16,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1017
00:28:15,624 –> 00:28:16,245
[paul_tyler]: we’ll put the links

1018
00:28:16,470 –> 00:28:17,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1019
00:28:16,645 –> 00:28:19,550
[paul_tyler]: to all that in your in the
show notes if you’re

1020
00:28:19,599 –> 00:28:19,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1021
00:28:19,610 –> 00:28:23,857
[paul_tyler]: listening an ant to find david thank
you michael thanks for your time is great

1022
00:28:23,898 –> 00:28:28,686
[paul_tyler]: to have you on here we enjoy
following you your work and dialogue and stuff

1023
00:28:28,726 –> 00:28:32,973
[paul_tyler]: you support in the industry so thanks
for what you’re doing and bruno ramsey thanks

1024
00:28:33,053 –> 00:28:34,235
[paul_tyler]: for thanks

1025
00:28:34,182 –> 00:28:34,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: pleasure

1026
00:28:34,295 –> 00:28:36,238
[paul_tyler]: for hosting this and join

1027
00:28:36,154 –> 00:28:36,335
[bruno_caron]: thank

1028
00:28:36,258 –> 00:28:36,539
[paul_tyler]: us again

1029
00:28:36,396 –> 00:28:36,496
[bruno_caron]: you

1030
00:28:36,579 –> 00:28:40,577
[paul_tyler]: next join us again next week for
another episode of that annuity show

 

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 169: Should Interest Rate Changes Rewrite Retirement Product Recommendations with Dave Blanchett and Michael Finke
read more

Episode 168: The Year Of In-Plan Annuities with Matt Wolniewicz

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Many people will experience shock when they open their 401(k) statements this year. Will the growing awareness of market risk open the doors for more in-plan annuity offerings in 2023? Today, we explore the challenges and opportunities of creating income protection inside 401(k) plans with Matt Wolniewicz, President at Income America.

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,350 –> 00:00:06,357
[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

2
00:00:06,417 –> 00:00:07,559
[paul_tyler]: good to see you here this morning

3
00:00:08,395 –> 00:00:09,098
[ramsey_d_smith]: ways glad to be here

4
00:00:09,610 –> 00:00:16,682
[paul_tyler]: uh boy this is you know we’re
end of october right and fourth quarter ramsey

5
00:00:16,405 –> 00:00:16,728
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

6
00:00:16,742 –> 00:00:20,328
[paul_tyler]: i will tell you on our company
side it is short stroke time to get

7
00:00:20,388 –> 00:00:25,817
[paul_tyler]: to the end of the year what
a crazy year it’s been i mean interest

8
00:00:25,897 –> 00:00:31,026
[paul_tyler]: rates going up like think i guess
you know how many times in history have

9
00:00:31,146 –> 00:00:37,316
[paul_tyler]: have bonds bonds on and the stock
market falling at the same time this is

10
00:00:37,716 –> 00:00:38,638
[paul_tyler]: an unusual time

11
00:00:40,265 –> 00:00:46,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes well it highlights uh it highlights
a lot of risks in retirement portfolios that

12
00:00:47,016 –> 00:00:49,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think were under appreciated

13
00:00:49,261 –> 00:00:49,485
[paul_tyler]: yes

14
00:00:50,341 –> 00:00:51,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: there was always this presumption that

15
00:00:52,320 –> 00:00:52,523
[paul_tyler]: oh

16
00:00:52,345 –> 00:00:55,771
[ramsey_d_smith]: that that stocks with the risky part
of your portfolio and bonds were

17
00:00:55,800 –> 00:00:55,881
[paul_tyler]: ah

18
00:00:55,831 –> 00:00:55,931
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

19
00:00:56,164 –> 00:00:56,224
[matt]: no

20
00:00:57,133 –> 00:01:01,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: low risk part and in fact you
know we’re suffering on both sides which actually

21
00:01:02,221 –> 00:01:09,233
[ramsey_d_smith]: makes a great segue in today’s guests
today we’re joined by matt wallnewitts who is

22
00:01:09,293 –> 00:01:16,565
[ramsey_d_smith]: the president of income america one of
the one of the leading leading institutions in

23
00:01:16,605 –> 00:01:21,874
[ramsey_d_smith]: the space of inplananuities and i will
confess that’s an area of particularly high interest

24
00:01:22,435 –> 00:01:27,103
[ramsey_d_smith]: for me and my own company so
really excited to hear what what matt has

25
00:01:27,183 –> 00:01:32,689
[ramsey_d_smith]: to say today think a very very
important development in uh in the retirement industry

26
00:01:32,809 –> 00:01:36,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: so with that matt tell us tell
us a bit more about yourself and about

27
00:01:36,833 –> 00:01:38,174
[ramsey_d_smith]: income america in particular

28
00:01:39,033 –> 00:01:42,579
[matt]: i’d be glad thanks for thanks for
having me today paul and ramsey it’s it’s

29
00:01:42,659 –> 00:01:43,741
[matt]: always good to get a chance to

30
00:01:43,705 –> 00:01:43,969
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

31
00:01:43,801 –> 00:01:49,150
[matt]: talk with you to you know just
real quick background on me i have been

32
00:01:49,170 –> 00:01:53,257
[matt]: the president in merica for the past
two years prior to that i was the

33
00:01:53,317 –> 00:01:58,145
[matt]: president at f i through sixty the
firm that was really leaving the charge on

34
00:01:58,185 –> 00:02:04,074
[matt]: the tradiciary standard and then prior to
that i had been at morning star for

35
00:02:04,415 –> 00:02:09,010
[matt]: for quite a long period and so
it’s been an interesting journey and evolution for

36
00:02:09,050 –> 00:02:14,450
[matt]: me i certainly always have the end
investor at heart and you know i’ve got

37
00:02:14,510 –> 00:02:17,395
[matt]: a particularly personal story about my dad
who

38
00:02:17,365 –> 00:02:17,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

39
00:02:17,495 –> 00:02:19,919
[matt]: actually went into retirement in the second

40
00:02:19,723 –> 00:02:19,885
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

41
00:02:19,959 –> 00:02:25,309
[matt]: quarter of two thousand and eight the
last great bull market and so i’d be

42
00:02:25,349 –> 00:02:29,597
[matt]: glad to share some of that but
i’ve been really excited about income america you

43
00:02:29,637 –> 00:02:33,918
[matt]: know i think two years ago when
we launched we were really on the cutting

44
00:02:34,099 –> 00:02:42,420
[matt]: edge of bringing in plan or when
k retirement income solutions to the market and

45
00:02:42,921 –> 00:02:48,650
[matt]: it’s been really interesting for how the
how the conversations have changed over the past

46
00:02:48,730 –> 00:02:53,038
[matt]: two years because two years ago there
was a question about whether there was really

47
00:02:53,178 –> 00:02:55,462
[matt]: even a need for ramsey um you

48
00:02:55,469 –> 00:02:56,035
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

49
00:02:55,502 –> 00:02:59,168
[matt]: know and i think some of that
was just legacy where there had been solutions

50
00:02:59,208 –> 00:03:00,190
[matt]: that had been introduced

51
00:03:00,090 –> 00:03:00,392
[paul_tyler]: yeah

52
00:03:00,730 –> 00:03:01,692
[matt]: ten or twelve years ago

53
00:03:01,920 –> 00:03:02,180
[paul_tyler]: yeah

54
00:03:02,033 –> 00:03:05,418
[matt]: to be honest they just hadn’t had
a lot of take up on the participant

55
00:03:05,478 –> 00:03:07,762
[matt]: side so it’s been really interesting to
see how

56
00:03:07,749 –> 00:03:07,869
[paul_tyler]: yeah

57
00:03:07,782 –> 00:03:11,749
[matt]: the conversation has changed you know certainly
like paul talking about the change in the

58
00:03:11,789 –> 00:03:16,780
[matt]: markets you know that that’s really had
a big impact and for me yesterday i

59
00:03:16,841 –> 00:03:20,330
[matt]: was in philadelphia and i was happy
to spend some time with a friend who’s

60
00:03:20,431 –> 00:03:25,999
[matt]: a really good institutional consult and we
were talking about how the markets have held

61
00:03:26,080 –> 00:03:27,682
[matt]: up to their traditional correlations

62
00:03:28,260 –> 00:03:29,610
[paul_tyler]: oh

63
00:03:28,373 –> 00:03:28,433
[matt]: he

64
00:03:28,384 –> 00:03:28,405
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

65
00:03:28,553 –> 00:03:32,645
[matt]: said that they’ve actually had more interest
in the alternative space and i said well

66
00:03:32,705 –> 00:03:35,737
[matt]: even the altar getting killed and he
said yeah but there’s some areas that have

67
00:03:35,777 –> 00:03:36,601
[matt]: added some values

68
00:03:36,967 –> 00:03:37,088
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

69
00:03:37,183 –> 00:03:39,730
[matt]: he mentioned a word that i hadn’t
heard in a long time and that was

70
00:03:39,770 –> 00:03:40,903
[matt]: hedge funds so

71
00:03:41,537 –> 00:03:41,577
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

72
00:03:41,724 –> 00:03:42,565
[matt]: it really is it

73
00:03:42,565 –> 00:03:42,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

74
00:03:42,625 –> 00:03:46,951
[matt]: really is hard times right now especially
again for an investor who’s worked their whole

75
00:03:47,011 –> 00:03:51,336
[matt]: life and really made the sacrifices to
make sure that they can have a comfortable

76
00:03:51,396 –> 00:03:56,402
[matt]: retirement these challenges just couldn’t be they
couldn’t be any tougher to navigate right now

77
00:03:58,096 –> 00:04:00,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: so wow so much to unpack there

78
00:04:00,963 –> 00:04:01,164
[matt]: yeah

79
00:04:01,381 –> 00:04:05,668
[ramsey_d_smith]: a quick comment in the last piece
sort of the alt piece so again big

80
00:04:05,748 –> 00:04:11,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: believer in the role of altsandin retirement
portfolios over time i think that that at

81
00:04:11,438 –> 00:04:16,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: the same time though als ultimately are
correlated with public markets over the long hall

82
00:04:16,246 –> 00:04:20,533
[ramsey_d_smith]: right if credit spreads are widening then
credit spreads and private private credit should widen

83
00:04:20,833 –> 00:04:24,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: and and the like and if there
are there the stock market is doing well

84
00:04:24,680 –> 00:04:29,708
[ramsey_d_smith]: and that means fewer exit strategies for
for for equity and private equity investment so

85
00:04:30,229 –> 00:04:34,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not sooner or later that you
know there is there’s going to be a

86
00:04:34,136 –> 00:04:38,563
[ramsey_d_smith]: correlation there but i wanted to want
to back up and go back to the

87
00:04:38,623 –> 00:04:40,226
[ramsey_d_smith]: personal story you cited

88
00:04:40,253 –> 00:04:40,396
[matt]: yeah

89
00:04:40,486 –> 00:04:43,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: and like it’s really like if you
think about it like all of us there’s

90
00:04:43,611 –> 00:04:50,200
[ramsey_d_smith]: some usually some personal catalog that you
know ultimately translates into right shaping an entire

91
00:04:50,280 –> 00:04:53,304
[ramsey_d_smith]: career and it sounds like you have
one of these please share more about that

92
00:04:54,133 –> 00:04:57,659
[matt]: i do you know my dad was
somebody who who really worked hard his whole

93
00:04:57,699 –> 00:05:02,166
[matt]: life i mean you know always made
always made sure that me and my three

94
00:05:02,206 –> 00:05:06,354
[matt]: younger sisters had enough but he worked
hard and he never really had the benefit

95
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[matt]: of a pension so him and my
mom you know were really diligent savers and

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[matt]: i’ll never forget as he

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: began to think about retiring asked me
to go and sit with his financial advisor

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[matt]: and we went into the financial advisor
just asked a really simple question i said

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[matt]: hey jim what is your philosophy about
asset allocation as my dad goes into retirement

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[matt]: and i’ll never forget this for the
rest of my life i asked him that

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[matt]: question literally sweat started popping up on
his forehead he looked at me and he

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[matt]: said i’ll be right back he got
up and left the room and my dad

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[matt]: stuck his hand on my lap and
he said mack i settled down he said

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[matt]: you know this is jim we’ve been

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: friends for a long time and i
said i asked him a lay up question

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: right and he

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: came back and he ultimately stuck on
the desk a book that was about two

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[matt]: hundred pages long and it was his
firm view and asked application and i said

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[matt]: no jim tell me about ascidalication for
my dad so as we were leaving i

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[matt]: said to my dad i said hey
dad listen we’ve got to find a new

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[matt]: financial adviser and he said oh man
but he’s grady takes me out to play

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[matt]: golf and gives me golf balls and
i said

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: exactly that and so you know when
my

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: father did finally make the decision to
retire was a second quarter of two thousand

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[matt]: and eight we were in one of
the biggest bull markets in history and he

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[matt]: couldn’t have been any more excited

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: when he i retire and as that
year began to progress as we all remember

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[matt]: through the summer it started to get
a little bit worse and then once the

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[matt]: fall hit it really started to fall
he would literally call me at the end

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[matt]: of the close of market every single
day

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: which is two o’clock in chicago screaming
at me telling me that he was getting

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[matt]: me out of the market and you
know a short story is luckily i convinced

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[matt]: him the park enough money on the
side for a year so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: that they had cash to meet their
minimum obligations but the worst

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: they ever i think it was

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: march ninth of two thousand and nine
um you know that was i believe that

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[matt]: that was the very bottom the market
cycle two o’clock in one second with the

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[matt]: headline news that financial news blaring in
the background i get a call from my

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[matt]: dad saying i’m selling everything i said

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: dad don’t

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: you

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: you will you will never be able
to make up from that and luckily i

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[matt]: was able to state to keep him
convinced stay fully invested and i can only

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[matt]: imagine what would have happened had they
sold out when the market was down fifty

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[matt]: six percent we all know the you
know the catastrophe that’s associated with that so

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[matt]: for me ramsey i have always been
cast on the end investor having my dad

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[matt]: go through a situation like that had
he not had some guidance i am really

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[matt]: convinced that he would have sold out
at the very bottom

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[paul_tyler]: well is

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: interesting you know there’s a lot there
matt so one first you are every vyse’s

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[paul_tyler]: worst nightmare you were the kid

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[matt]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: who disrupted the relationship but for a
good reason i think the other part is

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[paul_tyler]: what what is the role of should
an advisor really be should it be somebody

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[paul_tyler]: who’s picking stocks or should it be
somebody who is helping manage behavior and it

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[paul_tyler]: sounds like that’s what you did with
your dad

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[matt]: you know that’s a great question paul
because

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: you know if we if we just
look at things statistically and analytically

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: most of the active managers can’t beat
the bench back if they can beat their

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[matt]: bench mark in a single year they
certainly can’t do it over a five or

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[matt]: ten year period so it’s interesting when
i look at my career and the way

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[matt]: that the financial advice side of the
business is really more you see more and

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[matt]: more advisors either using models or some
type tamp solution and i really do think

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[matt]: and ramsey we were talking earlier about
my buddy david bland chat you know he

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[matt]: talks a lot about the advisor alpha
that they added really is on the behavioral

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[matt]: finance side i mean even if we
just on a really recent basis even if

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[matt]: we look at the down turn that
happened at the beginning of covid the first

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[matt]: quarter of two thousand one even in
the target date market and you can say

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[matt]: whatever everybody has their own opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: on that too paul but even in
the target date market the number of people

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[matt]: that sold out in march of twenty
twenty it was pretty scary and so this

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[matt]: idea that a financial advisor is um
you know i like what joe durant calls

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[matt]: it like a life coach right somebody
who can really help on a behavior in

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[matt]: an side there’s no doubt that that
that investors especially those that are close to

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[matt]: retirement they

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: really do need that help and guidance

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so in the hierarchy like the behavioal
piece is probably the most important one so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: agree with you there the investment advice
is of some value but it is actually

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[ramsey_d_smith]: something that’s readily vailable and commoditized if
done right using

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[matt]: great

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[ramsey_d_smith]: industries and the last pieces you know
playing golf and getting free fall which which

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[ramsey_d_smith]: it seems like your dad’s advisor was

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[matt]: a

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[ramsey_d_smith]: over index to that and probably

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[matt]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: earning hundred basis

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: points a year for that and that’s
you

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[matt]: more

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[ramsey_d_smith]: know

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: or more or more god forbid right
and that is that is that is precisely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the problem there so all right so

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[matt]: hey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: here

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[matt]: ramsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: one other thing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: i just have to mention to because
when i just think about you know my

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[matt]: dad’s journey you know the other thing
that you have to remember it was just

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[matt]: him and i that met

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: with the financial adviser and my father
ultimately passed away before my mother and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[matt]: i can tell you that my mother
had no

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: relationship at all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: with that advisor

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: and again as i just think about
you know couples i don’t know what the

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[matt]: stats are exactly but i think that
a high number widows end up changing advisors

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[matt]: and practices simply because they don’t have
any relationship with the advisor and that’s that’s

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[matt]: too bad for everybody but i think
that it really is an unfortunate fact that

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[matt]: happens a lot

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[paul_tyler]: well ramsey’s going to go ramsey’s got
some good topics here to go into but

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[paul_tyler]: just to stick on this because i
think the topic were we’re discussing is so

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[paul_tyler]: relevant for advisors you know right now
at you talk the other aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you just mentioned was

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: frequency so the markets going down you’re
having daily conversations with you your dad i

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[paul_tyler]: got this question ramsey from a journalist

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[paul_tyler]: yesterday how frequently should people m revise
or take a look at their retirement plan

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[paul_tyler]: and i was kind of stuck man
on that one which was well probably you

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[paul_tyler]: know at least once a year but
you know was that check in really what

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[paul_tyler]: you just described was that almost like
a daily re affirmation that the plan is

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[paul_tyler]: still working it sounds like you made
some changes reposition cash you know for your

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[paul_tyler]: dad you know if we fast forward
to this environment how frequently should pe be

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[paul_tyler]: looking at their at their retirement plans
you know if you were answering that question

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[matt]: yeah that’s that’s a great question because
when my family calls me with questions i

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: tell them just to throw away their
statements

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: honestly

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: because you know listen it’s not like
you’re looking to retire today you’ve got at

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[matt]: least ten years and so the chances
of the market having a full recovery that

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[matt]: time are pretty great but you know
paul it is interesting because you know my

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[matt]: advisor personally will contact me at least
one supporter to meet with me and she’s

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[matt]: very very good about sending out kind
of updates when there’s big swings in the

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[matt]: market even though it’s via email i
don’t mind consuming content that way

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[matt]: in fact i’m a lot more likely
to read that that i am to take

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[matt]: a phone call so i don’t think
it’s i don’t think it’s certainly not an

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[matt]: every week thing but in these turbulent
markets i don’t think that there’s any problem

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[matt]: touched in base with a client once
a month just to see how they’re doing

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[matt]: and to make sure again i think
you hit on the real thing to make

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[matt]: sure that they’re still committed to their
plan and nothing has changed in their life

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[matt]: that may be too much especially from
a retirement plan but i would certainly think

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[matt]: on the private wealth side you know
that would be pretty appropriate

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[paul_tyler]: m s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: m done

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[ramsey_d_smith]: all right well that’s a look that’s
that’s an important conversation

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[paul_tyler]: eh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so all right so here we are
in here we are in two thousand twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: two and well we haven’t had sort
of a sudden severity that we saw in

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in two thousand eight or we have
different reasons i should say for now for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the market suffering we’re still in the
situation where you know again stocks are down

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[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot bonds are also down so
all much of the same pain that somebody

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[ramsey_d_smith]: retiring in two thousand eight would have
had people that are retiring in two thousand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: twenty two are having

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[matt]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: right now and so you know what
are some

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[matt]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: of the lessons we can learn from
that and how you know how how does

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00:14:06,189 –> 00:14:10,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: inplantanuity that does the inplantanuity opportunity play
into that sort of i would say going

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[ramsey_d_smith]: forward so you know if people had

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[matt]: oh

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00:14:13,261 –> 00:14:14,904
[ramsey_d_smith]: bought into inplantanuities twenty years

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00:14:14,801 –> 00:14:14,943
[matt]: yeah

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00:14:14,944 –> 00:14:16,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: ago would they be now versus

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[matt]: yeah

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00:14:16,754 –> 00:14:17,398
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know where they are

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[matt]: it’s a really fair question mamsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:14:20,424 –> 00:14:23,889
[matt]: i mean i think you know and
again conversation i was having yesterday with the

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[matt]: institutional consultant is how the sixty forty
portfolio and these market conditions it hasn’t held

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[matt]: up and i haven’t taken a look
at

296
00:14:31,765 –> 00:14:31,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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00:14:31,770 –> 00:14:34,835
[matt]: the numbers to see how that worked
back in two thousand and eight

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:14:35,596 –> 00:14:43,085
[matt]: but you know certainly with a retirement
account again on the behavioral finance side knowing

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[matt]: that a participant has enough income to
at least make their basic needs irrespective of

301
00:14:50,108 –> 00:14:56,629
[matt]: market performance on the behavior finance side
that’s just something that it’s really important and

302
00:14:56,690 –> 00:15:01,924
[matt]: it’s interesting because not only is it
important to that end participant you know right

303
00:15:02,004 –> 00:15:07,092
[matt]: now in this war for talent amongst
companies it’s crazy how the market is performed

304
00:15:07,112 –> 00:15:10,057
[matt]: and you have the job market has
really head up and held up

305
00:15:10,076 –> 00:15:10,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

306
00:15:10,137 –> 00:15:11,339
[matt]: and so you know the

307
00:15:11,381 –> 00:15:11,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

308
00:15:11,420 –> 00:15:17,309
[matt]: idea of the great resignation or the
quitting all these professionals are looking for benefits

309
00:15:17,410 –> 00:15:18,091
[matt]: that are unique

310
00:15:18,420 –> 00:15:19,075
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

311
00:15:19,273 –> 00:15:25,443
[matt]: to hold and retain employees and so
certainly the you know the benefits like the

312
00:15:25,503 –> 00:15:31,433
[matt]: four one plan those are definitely benefits
that need to be competitive and having some

313
00:15:31,473 –> 00:15:37,099
[matt]: retirement income in there certainly is different
than some of the other some of the

314
00:15:37,159 –> 00:15:43,688
[matt]: other areas and it may be more
important now for those that are um you

315
00:15:43,728 –> 00:15:45,110
[matt]: know near retirement but also

316
00:15:45,625 –> 00:15:45,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

317
00:15:45,832 –> 00:15:49,539
[matt]: any of the young people that are
going to live through this market cycle i

318
00:15:49,659 –> 00:15:54,027
[matt]: have to believe that yes they like
bit coin and all these other things but

319
00:15:54,068 –> 00:15:54,308
[matt]: i have

320
00:15:54,295 –> 00:15:54,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

321
00:15:54,348 –> 00:15:57,876
[matt]: to believe that at least in the
short term they’re going to be pretty adverse

322
00:15:58,016 –> 00:16:00,661
[matt]: to to take in on these risky
bets

323
00:16:02,316 –> 00:16:06,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: so part of what were you know
what we’re sort of dealing with here is

324
00:16:06,563 –> 00:16:10,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of a a culture a culture
that’s focused on stocks and bonds target date

325
00:16:11,031 –> 00:16:17,559
[ramsey_d_smith]: funds et cetera and so ah coming
from that to to a market that is

326
00:16:17,839 –> 00:16:23,709
[ramsey_d_smith]: where there is a greater penetration presence
of inplanetannuities what do you think it takes

327
00:16:23,769 –> 00:16:26,634
[ramsey_d_smith]: to get there like who are the
people that need to be brought over the

328
00:16:26,674 –> 00:16:29,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: line who are the stake holders like
so there’s plan sponsors their

329
00:16:30,113 –> 00:16:30,873
[matt]: yeah

330
00:16:30,407 –> 00:16:31,251
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan participants

331
00:16:31,593 –> 00:16:32,343
[matt]: oh

332
00:16:32,305 –> 00:16:35,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: what do we need to do bring
them over the line and and and are

333
00:16:35,116 –> 00:16:36,462
[ramsey_d_smith]: we seeing movement there in your view

334
00:16:37,733 –> 00:16:39,178
[matt]: so so to answer your question about

335
00:16:39,130 –> 00:16:39,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

336
00:16:39,258 –> 00:16:45,175
[matt]: movement yes and i would say that
it’s accelerated greatly in the past six months

337
00:16:45,356 –> 00:16:45,556
[matt]: look

338
00:16:45,427 –> 00:16:45,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

339
00:16:46,238 –> 00:16:46,679
[matt]: the market

340
00:16:46,675 –> 00:16:47,039
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:16:46,759 –> 00:16:52,063
[matt]: certainly helps annuities right i mean all
the stas that i’ve seen say that now

342
00:16:52,263 –> 00:16:58,133
[matt]: all the all the annuities are you
know setting records for for quarterly sales so

343
00:16:58,193 –> 00:17:02,340
[matt]: we know that market volatility definitely drives
interest in that but you know on the

344
00:17:02,420 –> 00:17:05,994
[matt]: in plan side i think that we
really have to look back to the scare

345
00:17:06,074 –> 00:17:11,102
[matt]: act when that passed unfortunately that happened
just before the covid crisis came through and

346
00:17:11,202 –> 00:17:15,333
[matt]: so one of the challenges for the
plan sponsors in the past had been now

347
00:17:15,535 –> 00:17:18,370
[matt]: if something happens with the insurance company
and they fail

348
00:17:18,655 –> 00:17:19,023
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

349
00:17:18,953 –> 00:17:20,657
[matt]: who is on the hook for the
obligation

350
00:17:21,055 –> 00:17:21,301
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

351
00:17:21,179 –> 00:17:27,193
[matt]: for all of these participant benefits that
the participants have been paying for everybody can

352
00:17:27,274 –> 00:17:31,018
[matt]: tell me you know insurance companies never
fail and again all we have to do

353
00:17:31,078 –> 00:17:34,824
[matt]: is look back to two thousand and
think about a i g and without a

354
00:17:34,884 –> 00:17:37,669
[matt]: government bail out there would have been
a lot of trouble and pain there so

355
00:17:38,190 –> 00:17:42,056
[matt]: the kerak provided a safe harbor for
the plan sponsor so that as long as

356
00:17:42,097 –> 00:17:44,882
[matt]: they went through due diligence process

357
00:17:45,145 –> 00:17:46,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

358
00:17:46,013 –> 00:17:47,134
[matt]: they could have a safe harbor

359
00:17:47,095 –> 00:17:47,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

360
00:17:47,214 –> 00:17:51,820
[matt]: there and so you know that was
certainly one thing ramsey but again i think

361
00:17:51,860 –> 00:17:57,838
[matt]: that in a raging bull market it’s
hard to have that conversation with participant about

362
00:17:57,858 –> 00:18:00,843
[matt]: the benefit of a guaranteed income because
they think the market is going to go

363
00:18:00,943 –> 00:18:08,924
[matt]: up like that forever so some market
volatility has definitely brought it back or the

364
00:18:08,984 –> 00:18:14,985
[matt]: participants but the other thing is the
retirement plan adviser and the consultants that community

365
00:18:15,225 –> 00:18:20,233
[matt]: definitely has more interest in the in
plan solutions really for two reasons

366
00:18:20,758 –> 00:18:21,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

367
00:18:20,895 –> 00:18:27,433
[matt]: one if the participant rolls out of
the plan than those professions s have um

368
00:18:27,874 –> 00:18:31,420
[matt]: you know little impact there isn’t much
that they can do to make a difference

369
00:18:31,480 –> 00:18:32,441
[matt]: for those participants

370
00:18:32,725 –> 00:18:32,745
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

371
00:18:32,922 –> 00:18:37,550
[matt]: and so it’s interesting that sponsors now
in the past i would say they might

372
00:18:37,610 –> 00:18:42,387
[matt]: be indifferent to maybe hope in a
participant left the plan i feel like now

373
00:18:42,528 –> 00:18:46,816
[matt]: that’s changed and you know typically the
people that are leaving the plan have the

374
00:18:46,836 –> 00:18:48,058
[matt]: higher balances and so

375
00:18:48,123 –> 00:18:48,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

376
00:18:48,138 –> 00:18:49,802
[matt]: it’s to the plan sponsors benefit

377
00:18:50,146 –> 00:18:50,328
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

378
00:18:50,453 –> 00:18:55,555
[matt]: those higher balances stay in plan because
then they get some leverage over the providers

379
00:18:56,096 –> 00:19:01,224
[matt]: so it’s been real interesting that the
institutional community has begun to warm up to

380
00:19:01,304 –> 00:19:02,366
[matt]: and embrace this idea

381
00:19:02,575 –> 00:19:03,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

382
00:19:02,827 –> 00:19:07,194
[matt]: the other thing is those consultants are
always looking for a reason to have a

383
00:19:07,234 –> 00:19:08,877
[matt]: conversation with a new prospect

384
00:19:09,425 –> 00:19:09,895
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

385
00:19:09,919 –> 00:19:15,609
[matt]: on the plan sponsor side and so
the guaranteed income in plan is definitely something

386
00:19:15,649 –> 00:19:17,933
[matt]: that they can take out the prospects
and

387
00:19:17,959 –> 00:19:18,445
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

388
00:19:17,973 –> 00:19:22,317
[matt]: if the existing consulting her advisors and
talking to him about it it’s a great

389
00:19:22,417 –> 00:19:28,022
[matt]: way to gain some leverage and some
trust and some credibility from the plan sponsor

390
00:19:29,296 –> 00:19:32,882
[ramsey_d_smith]: so you you you introduced a third
sort of stake holder that i

391
00:19:33,074 –> 00:19:33,135
[matt]: ah

392
00:19:33,142 –> 00:19:33,643
[ramsey_d_smith]: that i missed

393
00:19:33,570 –> 00:19:33,810
[paul_tyler]: yeah

394
00:19:33,683 –> 00:19:36,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: which was the retirement plan advisor right
so you’ve got the plan

395
00:19:36,293 –> 00:19:37,113
[matt]: yeah

396
00:19:36,528 –> 00:19:42,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: sponsors you got the plan participants but
retire plan advisor is particularly in the small

397
00:19:43,179 –> 00:19:50,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: medium business segment are super super important
and so i know you know you are

398
00:19:50,451 –> 00:19:56,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: out in the road at conferences talking
you talking to this this segment very very

399
00:19:56,366 –> 00:20:03,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: very frequently is it you seeing traction
are you seeing movement do they under how

400
00:20:03,641 –> 00:20:07,808
[ramsey_d_smith]: much is it do they understand the
value proposition how much do yu have to

401
00:20:07,868 –> 00:20:10,833
[ramsey_d_smith]: explain it like i guess i’m trying
to get sense for how receptive are they

402
00:20:11,053 –> 00:20:15,462
[ramsey_d_smith]: maybe they’re getting there they’re being nudged
or are they receptive so far

403
00:20:16,564 –> 00:20:18,450
[matt]: it’s it’s really changed a lot i
would

404
00:20:18,385 –> 00:20:19,105
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

405
00:20:18,510 –> 00:20:21,439
[matt]: say over the course of this year
i was telling paul early i’ve done over

406
00:20:21,540 –> 00:20:23,395
[matt]: forty speaking events

407
00:20:23,275 –> 00:20:23,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

408
00:20:23,435 –> 00:20:28,109
[matt]: this year so i dedicated myself to
just being out on the road and providing

409
00:20:28,169 –> 00:20:28,731
[matt]: education

410
00:20:28,385 –> 00:20:28,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

411
00:20:29,293 –> 00:20:30,114
[matt]: and i would say that

412
00:20:30,445 –> 00:20:30,752
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:20:31,276 –> 00:20:36,164
[matt]: that again through the year and again
i mean there’s definitely correlation to the market

414
00:20:36,264 –> 00:20:36,465
[matt]: right

415
00:20:36,887 –> 00:20:37,048
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

416
00:20:36,925 –> 00:20:43,805
[matt]: and so there has been more and
more interest but i still when i talked

417
00:20:43,845 –> 00:20:47,092
[matt]: to my friends that are advisors and
i mentioned in plan

418
00:20:47,245 –> 00:20:47,995
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

419
00:20:47,533 –> 00:20:49,938
[matt]: or i mentioned guaranteed income right the
first thing that

420
00:20:49,975 –> 00:20:51,055
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

421
00:20:49,978 –> 00:20:51,521
[matt]: they say is oh that’s an annuity

422
00:20:51,917 –> 00:20:51,957
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

423
00:20:52,283 –> 00:20:53,008
[matt]: i’m like yes

424
00:20:53,095 –> 00:20:53,875
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

425
00:20:54,093 –> 00:20:57,379
[matt]: that’s the only way that you’re going
to get any guaranteed income right is with

426
00:20:57,248 –> 00:20:57,775
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

427
00:20:57,459 –> 00:21:01,906
[matt]: an annuity and they say oh you
know those those don’t work no good they’re

428
00:21:01,946 –> 00:21:05,733
[matt]: too expensive and so i just feel
ramsey that you know again in the educate

429
00:21:05,853 –> 00:21:09,344
[matt]: and there’s one thing in talking about
it a plan

430
00:21:09,629 –> 00:21:09,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

431
00:21:09,825 –> 00:21:14,474
[matt]: there’s another idea of just talking about
the benefits of it because everybody’s got a

432
00:21:14,514 –> 00:21:19,983
[matt]: bad experience with a retail annuity either
personally or with a client and so talking

433
00:21:20,043 –> 00:21:23,549
[matt]: them through the nuances and the difference
and really the benefits

434
00:21:23,160 –> 00:21:23,790
[paul_tyler]: yeah

435
00:21:23,629 –> 00:21:28,661
[matt]: of an institutional offering it’s pretty interesting
where that conversation ends up at the end

436
00:21:29,140 –> 00:21:29,221
[paul_tyler]: so

437
00:21:29,185 –> 00:21:30,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

438
00:21:29,361 –> 00:21:33,107
[paul_tyler]: for ams and i we’re gon t
trade mark this thing before it goes out

439
00:21:33,888 –> 00:21:37,815
[paul_tyler]: if we were to form the national
association of in plan annuities

440
00:21:37,735 –> 00:21:37,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

441
00:21:38,997 –> 00:21:41,521
[paul_tyler]: and start a lobby uh

442
00:21:41,365 –> 00:21:41,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

443
00:21:41,741 –> 00:21:42,643
[paul_tyler]: different individuals

444
00:21:42,805 –> 00:21:43,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

445
00:21:43,665 –> 00:21:48,713
[paul_tyler]: would you tell us to focus first
on trying to almost get annuities in plan

446
00:21:48,773 –> 00:21:49,895
[paul_tyler]: annuities set as a default

447
00:21:50,043 –> 00:21:50,369
[matt]: oh

448
00:21:50,055 –> 00:21:54,225
[paul_tyler]: option like ex percent of your plan
for employes should default into that would that

449
00:21:54,286 –> 00:21:56,152
[paul_tyler]: be our number one objective to really

450
00:21:56,725 –> 00:21:56,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

451
00:21:56,875 –> 00:21:59,413
[paul_tyler]: you now drive activity in the marketplace

452
00:22:01,513 –> 00:22:03,695
[matt]: i think it’s a great question i
think there’s

453
00:22:03,745 –> 00:22:03,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

454
00:22:03,855 –> 00:22:07,439
[matt]: one a and one b i think
that one a is the idea that in

455
00:22:07,539 –> 00:22:13,812
[matt]: plan annuities can be a q d
a and then one b would be at

456
00:22:13,972 –> 00:22:19,554
[matt]: what age is it appropriate to put
somebody in as a q d is it

457
00:22:19,634 –> 00:22:24,475
[matt]: really appropriate for twenty two year old
should it be for a fifty five year

458
00:22:24,515 –> 00:22:29,399
[matt]: old um or is it somewhere in
between i think that those are i think

459
00:22:29,439 –> 00:22:34,938
[matt]: that those are two of the really
key topics um and again especially in the

460
00:22:34,958 –> 00:22:39,750
[matt]: institutional consultant community there’s a lot of
questions there over those two topics

461
00:22:40,385 –> 00:22:44,191
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’m glad you answered that question
mat because you did it was way more

462
00:22:44,291 –> 00:22:47,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: nuance than what my answer was going
to be which

463
00:22:47,423 –> 00:22:47,503
[matt]: what

464
00:22:47,456 –> 00:22:47,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: is

465
00:22:47,543 –> 00:22:48,625
[matt]: was yours gonna be ramsey

466
00:22:48,318 –> 00:22:49,279
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes yes

467
00:22:49,371 –> 00:22:49,712
[paul_tyler]: yes

468
00:22:50,582 –> 00:22:56,371
[ramsey_d_smith]: your answer is yes yes we should
lobby to lobby to make them the qualified

469
00:22:56,411 –> 00:23:00,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: default investment alternative as often as possible
into the broadest possible audience

470
00:23:00,911 –> 00:23:01,135
[paul_tyler]: okay

471
00:23:00,919 –> 00:23:04,365
[ramsey_d_smith]: um and ye so well said matt
m

472
00:23:04,773 –> 00:23:05,943
[matt]: yeh

473
00:23:05,283 –> 00:23:06,565
[paul_tyler]: okay the other question which which

474
00:23:06,513 –> 00:23:06,614
[matt]: what

475
00:23:06,805 –> 00:23:07,566
[paul_tyler]: which raises this

476
00:23:07,705 –> 00:23:09,025
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

477
00:23:07,727 –> 00:23:13,556
[paul_tyler]: educational question base man i get all
the questions like no surprise you know you’re

478
00:23:13,637 –> 00:23:16,181
[paul_tyler]: answering these all day long which is
these annuities

479
00:23:15,993 –> 00:23:16,216
[matt]: oh

480
00:23:16,221 –> 00:23:17,763
[paul_tyler]: the hint the fees

481
00:23:17,785 –> 00:23:18,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

482
00:23:17,824 –> 00:23:20,187
[paul_tyler]: are high the r is low and
i tell him no

483
00:23:20,073 –> 00:23:20,295
[matt]: oh

484
00:23:20,468 –> 00:23:22,992
[paul_tyler]: it’s it’s not an investment an insurance

485
00:23:22,594 –> 00:23:22,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

486
00:23:24,094 –> 00:23:24,274
[paul_tyler]: and

487
00:23:24,445 –> 00:23:25,255
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

488
00:23:24,614 –> 00:23:25,419
[matt]: right that’s right

489
00:23:25,436 –> 00:23:28,481
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s your in the house
now when you when i think of the

490
00:23:28,561 –> 00:23:31,927
[paul_tyler]: process at the employe level and i’m
going through

491
00:23:31,773 –> 00:23:32,096
[matt]: oh

492
00:23:31,967 –> 00:23:37,036
[paul_tyler]: making my choice you know all those
forms are kind of getting my head lined

493
00:23:37,076 –> 00:23:39,339
[paul_tyler]: around an investment oriented process

494
00:23:40,493 –> 00:23:40,574
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

495
00:23:40,790 –> 00:23:44,200
[paul_tyler]: what’s it going to take i mean
to get people to think about oh

496
00:23:44,605 –> 00:23:44,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:23:44,913 –> 00:23:45,154
[matt]: oh

498
00:23:45,122 –> 00:23:46,967
[paul_tyler]: what do i a between

499
00:23:47,163 –> 00:23:47,424
[matt]: oh

500
00:23:48,400 –> 00:23:55,302
[paul_tyler]: my equity my bonds and by the
way you know annuities are bond like protection

501
00:23:55,382 –> 00:24:00,253
[paul_tyler]: their insurance what’s the what do we
need here changing forms in this business is

502
00:24:00,333 –> 00:24:01,756
[paul_tyler]: hard really hard

503
00:24:03,793 –> 00:24:08,242
[matt]: yeah that topic paul is is m
s you know i think that one of

504
00:24:08,262 –> 00:24:09,385
[matt]: the most abused terms

505
00:24:09,745 –> 00:24:10,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

506
00:24:09,986 –> 00:24:15,736
[matt]: in the financial services industry today is
financial wellness everybody has a different definition everybody

507
00:24:15,897 –> 00:24:19,844
[matt]: thinks that it means something else there’s
all kinds of software out there and the

508
00:24:19,884 –> 00:24:24,312
[matt]: bottom line is that the participants rarely
engage in that unless

509
00:24:24,685 –> 00:24:25,435
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

510
00:24:24,893 –> 00:24:31,223
[matt]: somebody comes out meets with them and
really talks about their specific situation and so

511
00:24:31,303 –> 00:24:37,356
[matt]: it becomes a challenge to to do
education broadly at the participant level see that’s

512
00:24:37,417 –> 00:24:38,908
[matt]: why i like the d a

513
00:24:39,912 –> 00:24:40,465
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

514
00:24:40,003 –> 00:24:44,531
[matt]: you know we’ve done a really good
job on the on the accumulation side of

515
00:24:44,891 –> 00:24:51,522
[matt]: retirement savings with auto enrolment autoescalation you
know things like that where to the end

516
00:24:51,623 –> 00:24:54,730
[matt]: investor it’s kind of painless because it’s
small incremental changes

517
00:24:54,521 –> 00:24:55,075
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

518
00:24:54,810 –> 00:25:01,385
[matt]: over time but it’s really disappointing that
once somebody has worked and accumulated the assets

519
00:25:01,425 –> 00:25:05,947
[matt]: and we all know that all investors
under saved that when they get to retirement

520
00:25:06,913 –> 00:25:11,180
[matt]: there’s no way to help them with
that going forward and typically if you’re sixty

521
00:25:11,260 –> 00:25:15,588
[matt]: five and you’ve got a nest egg
and you’re getting ready to retire um

522
00:25:15,445 –> 00:25:15,769
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

523
00:25:16,088 –> 00:25:19,374
[matt]: you know you might know what your
fixed expenses are but if you’re left on

524
00:25:19,414 –> 00:25:23,101
[matt]: your own to navigate that and if
we look at the vast majority of investors

525
00:25:23,149 –> 00:25:23,845
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

526
00:25:23,903 –> 00:25:31,090
[matt]: they don’t have enough in acids qualify
to really be serviced by a financial advisor

527
00:25:31,270 –> 00:25:36,559
[matt]: and so there’s a humungus gap out
there in the market today um and again

528
00:25:36,800 –> 00:25:40,325
[matt]: that’s that’s a reason why i believe
that p d i a is such a

529
00:25:40,385 –> 00:25:44,992
[matt]: great alternative for the vast majority of
retirement savers

530
00:25:46,066 –> 00:25:51,034
[ramsey_d_smith]: that is such an important point because
it right it enhances the accumulation phase by

531
00:25:51,695 –> 00:25:57,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: by stabilizing stabilizing account value is a
clear path into into retirement with us stable

532
00:25:58,126 –> 00:26:03,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of foundational income but then i
think this is a really critical point and

533
00:26:03,655 –> 00:26:07,181
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think the industry still needs to
figure out what this looks like but this

534
00:26:07,261 –> 00:26:12,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: notion of staying in plan through now
through a post retirement um i think it’s

535
00:26:12,790 –> 00:26:17,298
[ramsey_d_smith]: really important and to your you made
the point earlier it means more assets retained

536
00:26:17,358 –> 00:26:23,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: by by plan sponsor so that’s more
cost efficiencies purp i pen that’s great um

537
00:26:23,627 –> 00:26:27,052
[ramsey_d_smith]: i do think and actually and the
other thing is that it means not rolling

538
00:26:27,152 –> 00:26:33,892
[ramsey_d_smith]: over into you know expensive you know
an expensive alternative that might mar may not

539
00:26:33,952 –> 00:26:36,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: be you know managed by an r
a or some other

540
00:26:36,204 –> 00:26:36,387
[matt]: that’s

541
00:26:36,416 –> 00:26:36,837
[ramsey_d_smith]: platform

542
00:26:36,469 –> 00:26:36,631
[matt]: right

543
00:26:37,718 –> 00:26:40,803
[ramsey_d_smith]: um but here’s the thing in order
to make that work

544
00:26:40,833 –> 00:26:41,583
[matt]: yeah

545
00:26:41,585 –> 00:26:46,697
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan sponsors or their you know the
vendors have to have a post retirement platform

546
00:26:47,279 –> 00:26:53,481
[ramsey_d_smith]: that replaces some of those services are
provided right now by that that advisor that

547
00:26:53,521 –> 00:26:56,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: takes the role over like those are
those are those are this real value added

548
00:26:56,726 –> 00:27:02,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: services in there even if they’re sometimes
expensive there’s real value added services so what

549
00:27:02,156 –> 00:27:04,684
[ramsey_d_smith]: are your thoughts instead of where now
where

550
00:27:04,563 –> 00:27:04,766
[matt]: oh

551
00:27:04,804 –> 00:27:10,771
[ramsey_d_smith]: we are is an industry instead of
offering those post retirement services sort of in

552
00:27:11,353 –> 00:27:14,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan is that a lot more work
to come or you think we’re head in

553
00:27:15,002 –> 00:27:15,062
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

554
00:27:15,015 –> 00:27:15,056
[matt]: i

555
00:27:15,082 –> 00:27:15,202
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

556
00:27:15,178 –> 00:27:15,361
[matt]: think

557
00:27:15,222 –> 00:27:15,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: direction

558
00:27:16,313 –> 00:27:19,718
[matt]: i think that we’re still in the
in the picture warming up on the mound

559
00:27:19,818 –> 00:27:20,119
[matt]: before

560
00:27:20,305 –> 00:27:21,085
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

561
00:27:20,480 –> 00:27:25,107
[matt]: they take the mound in the first
inning i mean you know ramsey it’s crazy

562
00:27:25,147 –> 00:27:25,768
[matt]: when you think about

563
00:27:25,705 –> 00:27:26,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

564
00:27:25,828 –> 00:27:30,416
[matt]: again all the debate about financial welles
or are ways to get people to save

565
00:27:30,496 –> 00:27:35,585
[matt]: more i feel like that’s where more
of the conversation is than you know now

566
00:27:35,645 –> 00:27:40,533
[matt]: that somebody’s reached retirement how do we
help them going forward and again i feel

567
00:27:40,593 –> 00:27:45,374
[matt]: like that’s a topic that’s just really
starting to gain momentum i know that there’s

568
00:27:45,434 –> 00:27:47,457
[matt]: some things in secure act to ow

569
00:27:47,665 –> 00:27:47,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

570
00:27:48,098 –> 00:27:52,946
[matt]: that may help with that but i
really do feel that on the legislative side

571
00:27:53,527 –> 00:28:01,836
[matt]: that the legislators are becoming more interested
and the retirement outcome certainly because you know

572
00:28:01,956 –> 00:28:07,165
[matt]: say what you will about so security
but you know we’ve got to figure out

573
00:28:07,205 –> 00:28:08,888
[matt]: a way to refill that trust fund
too

574
00:28:08,875 –> 00:28:08,895
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

575
00:28:09,048 –> 00:28:13,560
[matt]: and so there’s only so many ways
that we can do that and so yeah

576
00:28:13,660 –> 00:28:18,426
[matt]: i think that the i really think
that the next focus from the financial services

577
00:28:18,487 –> 00:28:18,928
[matt]: community

578
00:28:18,934 –> 00:28:18,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

579
00:28:19,208 –> 00:28:23,740
[matt]: is going to be on you know
post accumulation and how we help people going

580
00:28:23,800 –> 00:28:24,121
[matt]: forward

581
00:28:26,147 –> 00:28:30,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: i agree and i think it’s great
and i think we need to come up

582
00:28:30,253 –> 00:28:36,764
[ramsey_d_smith]: with an institutionally priced and scaleable solution
that it reaches like all consumers who need

583
00:28:36,804 –> 00:28:38,595
[ramsey_d_smith]: it just the wealthy so that’s i
think it’s

584
00:28:38,574 –> 00:28:38,654
[matt]: and

585
00:28:38,636 –> 00:28:39,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic

586
00:28:38,875 –> 00:28:43,328
[matt]: ramsey he brought up something that i
is again very near and dear to my

587
00:28:43,429 –> 00:28:43,689
[matt]: heart

588
00:28:44,117 –> 00:28:44,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

589
00:28:44,883 –> 00:28:48,879
[matt]: now that’s the fiduciary standard and the
benefit by keeping people in plan

590
00:28:48,805 –> 00:28:49,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

591
00:28:49,140 –> 00:28:49,300
[matt]: is

592
00:28:49,733 –> 00:28:49,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

593
00:28:49,883 –> 00:28:52,531
[matt]: those are those are fiduciary accounts by
default

594
00:28:52,766 –> 00:28:52,889
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

595
00:28:53,233 –> 00:28:56,805
[matt]: so you’ve got a fediciary that’s sitting
on top of that is for the participants

596
00:28:57,547 –> 00:29:04,391
[matt]: sole benefit that that plan exists and
if somebody takes their their roll over and

597
00:29:04,552 –> 00:29:09,780
[matt]: they’re not financially save that’s when people
can really get into trouble and that’s

598
00:29:09,840 –> 00:29:10,082
[paul_tyler]: oh

599
00:29:10,021 –> 00:29:13,307
[matt]: that’s where all those horses he’s come
from so yeah i think that that’s another

600
00:29:13,347 –> 00:29:16,032
[matt]: benefit of keeping people in plan

601
00:29:16,455 –> 00:29:16,637
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

602
00:29:16,710 –> 00:29:23,141
[paul_tyler]: so so maker question from the annuity
space you and ramsey are wild in the

603
00:29:23,361 –> 00:29:27,488
[paul_tyler]: industry is wildly successful and let’s say
it know ramsey what what’s a

604
00:29:27,543 –> 00:29:27,748
[matt]: oh

605
00:29:27,568 –> 00:29:30,436
[paul_tyler]: big number five per cent i mean
if we were to look back and say

606
00:29:30,496 –> 00:29:34,407
[paul_tyler]: wow this is this was wildly successful
or five percent of

607
00:29:34,863 –> 00:29:35,127
[matt]: yeah

608
00:29:35,610 –> 00:29:40,310
[paul_tyler]: kferinkasset’s in annuity is ten percent you
have a view m

609
00:29:40,736 –> 00:29:43,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: ten per cent would be seven hundred
billion dollars

610
00:29:43,460 –> 00:29:43,602
[paul_tyler]: yeah

611
00:29:43,686 –> 00:29:45,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: so that would be d be a
nice start

612
00:29:45,400 –> 00:29:45,720
[paul_tyler]: huge

613
00:29:46,113 –> 00:29:46,958
[matt]: it’d be a good start

614
00:29:47,002 –> 00:29:47,123
[paul_tyler]: yeah

615
00:29:47,335 –> 00:29:47,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

616
00:29:47,363 –> 00:29:51,570
[paul_tyler]: let’s cut it back and say so
five percent um you know at what what

617
00:29:51,650 –> 00:29:52,872
[paul_tyler]: does this mean for

618
00:29:52,848 –> 00:29:52,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

619
00:29:53,293 –> 00:30:00,104
[paul_tyler]: the ou know independent agent independent advisor
doing you know inganuities today because does it

620
00:30:00,204 –> 00:30:00,425
[paul_tyler]: just

621
00:30:00,205 –> 00:30:00,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

622
00:30:01,487 –> 00:30:06,355
[paul_tyler]: if you delivered annuity you’ve educated public
to the point where they understand and they

623
00:30:06,435 –> 00:30:10,823
[paul_tyler]: love them and the market stays or
de s roll overs go down and so

624
00:30:11,184 –> 00:30:14,250
[paul_tyler]: you know we’re kind of it’s a
water bed the market

625
00:30:15,503 –> 00:30:19,166
[matt]: really really two questions there right one
is what does it do to the advisor

626
00:30:19,186 –> 00:30:22,669
[matt]: who’s focused on annuities and then the
other one is a really common question that

627
00:30:22,709 –> 00:30:23,170
[matt]: i get is

628
00:30:23,455 –> 00:30:24,535
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

629
00:30:23,610 –> 00:30:27,294
[matt]: why would i do an i plan
guarantee because i’m not going to get any

630
00:30:27,334 –> 00:30:31,038
[matt]: roll over business so those are like
two separate questions but i believe that for

631
00:30:31,118 –> 00:30:37,965
[matt]: the for the financial professional who’s focused
on annuities having inplananuities will be a big

632
00:30:38,025 –> 00:30:42,569
[matt]: lift to their business because again i
would say that you know most practicipants don’t

633
00:30:42,609 –> 00:30:43,569
[matt]: even read their statement

634
00:30:43,410 –> 00:30:43,957
[paul_tyler]: oh

635
00:30:44,310 –> 00:30:50,767
[matt]: and they certainly don’t understand fees or
disclosure so there’s a reluctance for investors to

636
00:30:50,807 –> 00:30:54,914
[matt]: look at some of these solutions is
they just don’t understand them and so if

637
00:30:54,974 –> 00:30:59,141
[matt]: the average participant in a plan could
understand that they are protected with a guarantee

638
00:31:00,103 –> 00:31:03,829
[matt]: everybody has held away assets that are
outside the plan so i think that that

639
00:31:03,869 –> 00:31:08,617
[matt]: would be that would make the story
much easier for those people that are really

640
00:31:08,697 –> 00:31:13,385
[matt]: focused on providing guaranteed income solutions under
wealth man inside because again you’re just going

641
00:31:13,405 –> 00:31:19,014
[matt]: to have a population that’s more educated
the other thing is when a population is

642
00:31:19,094 –> 00:31:23,822
[matt]: more educated it brings more transparency to
the market and that’s good for everybody that’s

643
00:31:23,842 –> 00:31:24,263
[matt]: god for the

644
00:31:24,205 –> 00:31:25,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

645
00:31:24,843 –> 00:31:29,408
[matt]: the advisors that are focused on that
it’s good for the end investors um so

646
00:31:29,488 –> 00:31:33,092
[matt]: that that’s one segment of it paul
the other question that i get asked often

647
00:31:33,172 –> 00:31:38,335
[matt]: is advisers just going to kill my
roll over business and you know if that’s

648
00:31:38,355 –> 00:31:40,318
[matt]: what you built your business on again
i

649
00:31:40,320 –> 00:31:40,562
[paul_tyler]: oh

650
00:31:40,358 –> 00:31:44,525
[matt]: would just challenge that advisor to look
at the demographics of a plan because whether

651
00:31:44,565 –> 00:31:50,755
[matt]: it’s the old eighty twenty rule or
ninety ten the people have sophisticated planning needs

652
00:31:51,295 –> 00:31:55,300
[matt]: they most likely again have outside assets
that they’re going to need help with and

653
00:31:55,320 –> 00:31:59,330
[matt]: they’re still going to look to that
advisor for that the for somebody who’s worked

654
00:31:59,370 –> 00:32:03,584
[matt]: in the plan and they’ve got you
know forty thousand dollars

655
00:32:03,510 –> 00:32:04,110
[paul_tyler]: yeah

656
00:32:04,005 –> 00:32:08,753
[matt]: most likely the advisor um you know
is going to push them into a managed

657
00:32:08,793 –> 00:32:13,421
[matt]: portfolio or you know they may not
even have the time to meet somebody like

658
00:32:13,481 –> 00:32:19,090
[matt]: that so um you know i think
that the in plan is good because again

659
00:32:19,150 –> 00:32:24,459
[matt]: it brings visibility to the idea of
guaranteed income and secondly those individuals with more

660
00:32:24,519 –> 00:32:28,298
[matt]: sophisticated needs they’re going to be lookin
for financial professional help anyways

661
00:32:30,726 –> 00:32:34,933
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right so we we were supposed
to also talk about the four percent rule

662
00:32:34,993 –> 00:32:36,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: but where we’re hitting the

663
00:32:36,783 –> 00:32:37,431
[matt]: yeah

664
00:32:36,896 –> 00:32:40,983
[ramsey_d_smith]: the end of time here so i
know there’s if there’s any any quick comments

665
00:32:41,003 –> 00:32:41,103
[ramsey_d_smith]: you

666
00:32:41,034 –> 00:32:41,280
[matt]: yeah

667
00:32:41,163 –> 00:32:44,073
[ramsey_d_smith]: want to make on or we can
have you come back to to talk about

668
00:32:44,114 –> 00:32:46,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: that sometimes soon as well

669
00:32:47,073 –> 00:32:47,213
[matt]: i’d

670
00:32:47,150 –> 00:32:47,291
[paul_tyler]: yeah

671
00:32:47,233 –> 00:32:50,839
[matt]: love to come back i could do
i could i could beat michell’s record for

672
00:32:50,879 –> 00:32:52,863
[matt]: being on the shows i got so
much to talk about

673
00:32:52,710 –> 00:32:53,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

674
00:32:52,963 –> 00:32:53,123
[matt]: but

675
00:32:53,325 –> 00:32:54,475
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

676
00:32:54,005 –> 00:32:56,489
[matt]: you know you guys just have to
you guys just have to rain me in

677
00:32:56,869 –> 00:32:56,929
[matt]: you

678
00:32:56,875 –> 00:32:57,263
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

679
00:32:56,969 –> 00:33:02,423
[matt]: know i just think you know i
met with all of our partners yesterday and

680
00:33:02,604 –> 00:33:10,565
[matt]: the optimism around in plan has never
been higher i think that the portability question

681
00:33:10,645 –> 00:33:12,368
[matt]: is still a big issue that

682
00:33:12,325 –> 00:33:12,345
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:33:12,408 –> 00:33:14,592
[matt]: lingers out there both at

684
00:33:14,584 –> 00:33:14,605
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

685
00:33:14,632 –> 00:33:16,836
[matt]: the plan level and at the participant
level

686
00:33:17,695 –> 00:33:19,004
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

687
00:33:18,258 –> 00:33:23,773
[matt]: and at the same time you know
it’s the record keeping community that really needs

688
00:33:23,833 –> 00:33:27,835
[matt]: to make a decision in a commitment
to commit to these and i think that

689
00:33:27,915 –> 00:33:33,225
[matt]: twenty twenty three is going to be
a very interesting year to see what happens

690
00:33:33,445 –> 00:33:39,656
[matt]: in that regard and to see what
solutions these record keepers begin to select so

691
00:33:40,337 –> 00:33:43,282
[matt]: i think that the twenty three is
really going to be an interesting year for

692
00:33:43,362 –> 00:33:44,770
[matt]: the the plan market

693
00:33:45,631 –> 00:33:51,520
[paul_tyler]: yeah i this this was wonderful and
you know what you offered we’ll pull you

694
00:33:51,560 –> 00:33:53,203
[paul_tyler]: back to talk

695
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,173
[ramsey_d_smith]: ay

696
00:33:53,323 –> 00:33:53,564
[paul_tyler]: more

697
00:33:53,494 –> 00:33:53,837
[matt]: awesome

698
00:33:54,045 –> 00:33:54,465
[paul_tyler]: so i

699
00:33:54,535 –> 00:33:55,555
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

700
00:33:54,545 –> 00:34:00,615
[paul_tyler]: guess my last question for you matt
i looked back in twenty twenty twenty one

701
00:34:00,756 –> 00:34:04,101
[paul_tyler]: i think it was the year of
life insurance you know covid happened

702
00:34:03,835 –> 00:34:04,735
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

703
00:34:04,181 –> 00:34:08,629
[paul_tyler]: people said i’m like oh oh maybe
i could die and maybe i need insurance

704
00:34:09,371 –> 00:34:09,551
[paul_tyler]: we saw

705
00:34:09,573 –> 00:34:09,796
[matt]: oh

706
00:34:09,611 –> 00:34:14,265
[paul_tyler]: a big spike do you think twenty
two is the year of the annuity when

707
00:34:14,305 –> 00:34:20,470
[paul_tyler]: people say my fork dropped thirty percent
wow i’d had it this an annuity yeah

708
00:34:21,212 –> 00:34:24,882
[paul_tyler]: maybe this wouldn’t happened or at least
i wouldn’t because i wouldn’t be looking at

709
00:34:24,922 –> 00:34:26,286
[paul_tyler]: my statement like i’m looking today

710
00:34:28,976 –> 00:34:30,040
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know go ahead man

711
00:34:30,823 –> 00:34:33,948
[matt]: i was just going to say i
agree i think whether or not twenty two

712
00:34:34,088 –> 00:34:39,698
[matt]: is it definitely opens up the conversation
for literally every investor i also think it’s

713
00:34:39,718 –> 00:34:42,313
[matt]: a good time for financial advisors be

714
00:34:42,369 –> 00:34:42,390
[paul_tyler]: m

715
00:34:42,373 –> 00:34:45,496
[matt]: on the hunt for new clients i
know that they’re really worried about pretension now

716
00:34:45,656 –> 00:34:46,477
[matt]: but when the

717
00:34:46,479 –> 00:34:46,500
[paul_tyler]: m

718
00:34:46,497 –> 00:34:48,059
[matt]: market drops twenty five percent

719
00:34:48,060 –> 00:34:48,443
[paul_tyler]: oh

720
00:34:48,599 –> 00:34:51,202
[matt]: it’s not fair to blame your advisor
but i think a lot of people do

721
00:34:53,076 –> 00:34:56,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was just going to mention
that you know we recently put together a

722
00:34:56,682 –> 00:35:01,129
[ramsey_d_smith]: slide that showed five year performance of
target date funds and it was across all

723
00:35:01,530 –> 00:35:06,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: called the six top providers and the
five year return is about just just under

724
00:35:06,700 –> 00:35:11,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: five percent for most of them so
you know that’s five per cent from you

725
00:35:11,248 –> 00:35:11,389
[ramsey_d_smith]: know

726
00:35:11,340 –> 00:35:11,564
[paul_tyler]: oh

727
00:35:11,889 –> 00:35:13,312
[ramsey_d_smith]: in an at risk situation

728
00:35:13,883 –> 00:35:14,291
[matt]: that’s right

729
00:35:14,454 –> 00:35:18,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: and so the compare the comparison starts
look a lot more

730
00:35:18,390 –> 00:35:18,715
[paul_tyler]: oh

731
00:35:19,162 –> 00:35:20,283
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot more interesting for sure

732
00:35:21,410 –> 00:35:22,233
[paul_tyler]: yeah well listen

733
00:35:22,364 –> 00:35:23,108
[matt]: yeah you know what

734
00:35:24,942 –> 00:35:25,705
[paul_tyler]: go ahead matt please

735
00:35:25,606 –> 00:35:27,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead matt you have the stage

736
00:35:27,864 –> 00:35:29,667
[matt]: you guys you guys let me talk
all day long

737
00:35:29,805 –> 00:35:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

738
00:35:30,107 –> 00:35:33,413
[matt]: i was just going to say you
know another really quick personal story i have

739
00:35:33,453 –> 00:35:35,977
[matt]: a friend of mine that worked for
a t and t for thirty two years

740
00:35:36,358 –> 00:35:36,518
[matt]: and

741
00:35:36,489 –> 00:35:36,510
[paul_tyler]: m

742
00:35:37,039 –> 00:35:43,556
[matt]: he was thinking about retiring last december
and he didn’t and he just recently retired

743
00:35:43,976 –> 00:35:48,722
[matt]: um but if you think about the
difference between retiring in december

744
00:35:49,315 –> 00:35:49,762
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

745
00:35:49,493 –> 00:35:51,356
[matt]: of twenty one versus

746
00:35:51,055 –> 00:35:51,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

747
00:35:51,477 –> 00:35:56,377
[matt]: retiring in october of twenty two and
the hit that you’re for when k is

748
00:35:56,437 –> 00:36:00,726
[matt]: taken now again he has enough cash
on the side that he can wait for

749
00:36:00,886 –> 00:36:04,864
[matt]: the market to recover which is great
but if he didn’t you know from an

750
00:36:05,064 –> 00:36:07,890
[matt]: income standpoint ramsey on a monthly basis

751
00:36:07,705 –> 00:36:07,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

752
00:36:07,930 –> 00:36:10,634
[matt]: going forward those you know those

753
00:36:11,065 –> 00:36:11,755
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

754
00:36:12,117 –> 00:36:14,501
[matt]: those consequences are pretty severe and so
you’re right

755
00:36:14,670 –> 00:36:15,450
[paul_tyler]: yeah

756
00:36:15,273 –> 00:36:19,720
[matt]: if it’s five percent over the past
five years wouldn’t you rather have that guaranteed

757
00:36:20,185 –> 00:36:20,205
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

758
00:36:20,602 –> 00:36:24,748
[matt]: with maybe some upside is to oppose
to losing twenty five per cent

759
00:36:24,714 –> 00:36:24,796
[paul_tyler]: ah

760
00:36:24,769 –> 00:36:27,092
[matt]: of your value as you get to
enter into retirement

761
00:36:26,905 –> 00:36:26,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

762
00:36:27,533 –> 00:36:30,561
[matt]: um that’s a pretty tricky situation for
most investors

763
00:36:32,746 –> 00:36:37,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right matt it has been a
real pleasure o thank you for thank you

764
00:36:37,090 –> 00:36:39,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: for joining us and then you know
i echo

765
00:36:39,330 –> 00:36:39,611
[paul_tyler]: oh

766
00:36:39,432 –> 00:36:42,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul’s desire to have you come back
on sometime soon

767
00:36:43,313 –> 00:36:43,937
[matt]: on good thank you

768
00:36:43,970 –> 00:36:44,311
[paul_tyler]: excellent

769
00:36:43,997 –> 00:36:44,239
[matt]: fellows

770
00:36:44,510 –> 00:36:44,531
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

771
00:36:44,572 –> 00:36:48,582
[paul_tyler]: he thanks man thanks to our listeners
join us again next week for another great

772
00:36:48,682 –> 00:36:50,126
[paul_tyler]: episode of that annuity

773
00:36:50,035 –> 00:36:50,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:36:50,207 –> 00:36:50,788
[paul_tyler]: show thanks

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 168: The Year Of In-Plan Annuities with Matt Wolniewicz
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Episode 167: Answering Social Security Questions in Today’s Environment with Martha Shedden

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Social Security remains the starting point for many client conversations. It takes a lot of work to stay current with the changes in rules. Martha Shedden, Co-founder, President at NARSSA, joins us today to talk about the tools agents can use. In addition, we cover answers to many common retirement questions that clients are asking today.

Links mentioned:https://www.linkedin.com/in/marthashedden/https://narssa.org/

NARSSA provides education and resources to Social Security experts to help clients maximize their Social Security benefits. (246 kB)

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,580 –> 00:00:06,968
[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show bruno

2
00:00:07,068 –> 00:00:07,408
[paul_tyler]: welcome

3
00:00:08,685 –> 00:00:09,127
[bruno_caron]: thank you

4
00:00:10,100 –> 00:00:11,201
[paul_tyler]: okay i’m glad

5
00:00:11,293 –> 00:00:11,314
[martha_shedden]: m

6
00:00:11,502 –> 00:00:17,211
[paul_tyler]: you’re you’re now an official co host
and look forward to have you on a

7
00:00:17,292 –> 00:00:17,392
[paul_tyler]: lot

8
00:00:17,325 –> 00:00:17,586
[bruno_caron]: yeah

9
00:00:17,452 –> 00:00:19,756
[paul_tyler]: of these discussions adding your perspective

10
00:00:20,508 –> 00:00:20,570
[bruno_caron]: ah

11
00:00:20,677 –> 00:00:21,138
[paul_tyler]: you’re coming to

12
00:00:21,145 –> 00:00:21,245
[bruno_caron]: it’s

13
00:00:21,198 –> 00:00:21,258
[paul_tyler]: us

14
00:00:21,285 –> 00:00:21,325
[bruno_caron]: a

15
00:00:21,298 –> 00:00:21,418
[paul_tyler]: from

16
00:00:21,385 –> 00:00:22,328
[bruno_caron]: pleasure and an honor

17
00:00:22,704 –> 00:00:24,495
[paul_tyler]: and you’re coming to us from canada
correct

18
00:00:25,376 –> 00:00:25,717
[bruno_caron]: correct

19
00:00:26,420 –> 00:00:26,681
[paul_tyler]: okay

20
00:00:26,720 –> 00:00:27,082
[bruno_caron]: correct

21
00:00:27,805 –> 00:00:28,246
[paul_tyler]: so what

22
00:00:28,326 –> 00:00:28,688
[bruno_caron]: recently

23
00:00:30,370 –> 00:00:34,237
[paul_tyler]: yeah new job new role same same

24
00:00:34,125 –> 00:00:34,145
[bruno_caron]: m

25
00:00:34,297 –> 00:00:35,079
[paul_tyler]: local correct

26
00:00:36,645 –> 00:00:44,838
[bruno_caron]: correct correct recently moved and very excited
about my en you roll in of course

27
00:00:44,919 –> 00:00:47,503
[bruno_caron]: it’s very topical for

28
00:00:47,670 –> 00:00:48,360
[paul_tyler]: yeah

29
00:00:48,064 –> 00:00:49,068
[bruno_caron]: for the pot so

30
00:00:49,240 –> 00:00:49,424
[paul_tyler]: yeah

31
00:00:49,249 –> 00:00:50,555
[bruno_caron]: i’m very excited about that

32
00:00:50,971 –> 00:00:54,837
[paul_tyler]: yeah well ramsen forcing couldn’t be on
here he’s actually traveling he’s been driving a

33
00:00:54,897 –> 00:00:57,582
[paul_tyler]: lot so this is one of the
few episodes in a long time that he’s

34
00:00:57,662 –> 00:01:04,233
[paul_tyler]: missed but hopefully have im on back
next next next week um today listen we

35
00:01:04,273 –> 00:01:09,582
[paul_tyler]: got a really great guest for you
and our guest is martha she any may

36
00:01:09,622 –> 00:01:12,667
[paul_tyler]: have heard of her and i actually
got to know her as

37
00:01:12,684 –> 00:01:12,705
[bruno_caron]: m

38
00:01:13,468 –> 00:01:18,096
[paul_tyler]: she was kind enough invite me on
as a guest of her podcast and

39
00:01:18,225 –> 00:01:18,245
[bruno_caron]: m

40
00:01:19,117 –> 00:01:24,727
[paul_tyler]: martha’s got a really interesting you know
life story you know where she was how

41
00:01:24,767 –> 00:01:33,936
[paul_tyler]: she got into this business and currently
she is co founder and president of narsa

42
00:01:34,517 –> 00:01:36,619
[paul_tyler]: martha did i say that narsa

43
00:01:37,576 –> 00:01:38,359
[martha_shedden]: refer to yes

44
00:01:38,230 –> 00:01:42,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah and so tell us about
it tell us about your your organization tell

45
00:01:42,460 –> 00:01:44,606
[paul_tyler]: us about who your what what do
you do

46
00:01:47,455 –> 00:01:56,090
[martha_shedden]: well we in a short and a
short statement we educate and train financial professionals

47
00:01:56,511 –> 00:01:57,853
[martha_shedden]: on social security

48
00:01:57,330 –> 00:01:57,594
[paul_tyler]: oh

49
00:01:58,774 –> 00:01:59,958
[martha_shedden]: and claiming

50
00:02:00,240 –> 00:02:00,523
[paul_tyler]: yah

51
00:02:00,340 –> 00:02:02,086
[martha_shedden]: rules and strategy so that they

52
00:02:02,079 –> 00:02:02,100
[paul_tyler]: h

53
00:02:02,146 –> 00:02:11,270
[martha_shedden]: can help their clients make optimal claiming
decision and i can back up a little

54
00:02:11,310 –> 00:02:12,234
[martha_shedden]: bit about how i got

55
00:02:12,280 –> 00:02:12,460
[paul_tyler]: yeah

56
00:02:12,415 –> 00:02:15,417
[martha_shedden]: started back in yeah i have

57
00:02:15,329 –> 00:02:15,590
[paul_tyler]: how did

58
00:02:15,518 –> 00:02:15,538
[martha_shedden]: a

59
00:02:15,630 –> 00:02:15,711
[paul_tyler]: you

60
00:02:15,779 –> 00:02:15,940
[martha_shedden]: kind

61
00:02:15,831 –> 00:02:16,052
[paul_tyler]: end up

62
00:02:16,000 –> 00:02:16,041
[martha_shedden]: of

63
00:02:16,112 –> 00:02:17,476
[paul_tyler]: in this crazy world of ours

64
00:02:17,535 –> 00:02:17,756
[bruno_caron]: uh

65
00:02:18,774 –> 00:02:19,856
[martha_shedden]: it is crazy

66
00:02:19,384 –> 00:02:19,425
[bruno_caron]: uh

67
00:02:19,680 –> 00:02:19,862
[paul_tyler]: yeah

68
00:02:20,176 –> 00:02:20,276
[bruno_caron]: ah

69
00:02:20,197 –> 00:02:21,519
[martha_shedden]: but the story is crazy

70
00:02:21,704 –> 00:02:21,765
[bruno_caron]: ah

71
00:02:21,759 –> 00:02:21,779
[martha_shedden]: i

72
00:02:22,170 –> 00:02:22,433
[paul_tyler]: yeah

73
00:02:23,402 –> 00:02:24,744
[martha_shedden]: trained as a civil engineer

74
00:02:24,765 –> 00:02:24,968
[bruno_caron]: oh

75
00:02:24,985 –> 00:02:25,766
[martha_shedden]: i was working as

76
00:02:25,770 –> 00:02:26,034
[paul_tyler]: yeah

77
00:02:25,846 –> 00:02:27,769
[martha_shedden]: a civil engineer back in two thousand
and eleve

78
00:02:27,735 –> 00:02:27,755
[bruno_caron]: m

79
00:02:27,809 –> 00:02:31,135
[martha_shedden]: and i did that for about thirty
two years and a financial

80
00:02:31,155 –> 00:02:31,175
[bruno_caron]: m

81
00:02:31,235 –> 00:02:31,756
[martha_shedden]: advisor

82
00:02:31,800 –> 00:02:31,965
[paul_tyler]: ye

83
00:02:32,678 –> 00:02:36,624
[martha_shedden]: that i know here locally asked me
to help him with a a project he

84
00:02:36,704 –> 00:02:38,306
[martha_shedden]: had on social security i started

85
00:02:38,265 –> 00:02:38,506
[bruno_caron]: oh

86
00:02:38,406 –> 00:02:38,746
[martha_shedden]: reading

87
00:02:38,460 –> 00:02:38,701
[paul_tyler]: oh

88
00:02:38,806 –> 00:02:41,509
[martha_shedden]: books and researching i’m right in the
middle

89
00:02:41,318 –> 00:02:41,520
[paul_tyler]: yeah

90
00:02:42,170 –> 00:02:44,432
[martha_shedden]: excuse me of the baby boomers and
i was

91
00:02:44,310 –> 00:02:44,532
[paul_tyler]: oh

92
00:02:44,652 –> 00:02:44,793
[martha_shedden]: so

93
00:02:45,720 –> 00:02:45,984
[paul_tyler]: oh

94
00:02:45,794 –> 00:02:48,977
[martha_shedden]: shocked at what i didn’t know what
i didn’t understand

95
00:02:48,465 –> 00:02:48,485
[bruno_caron]: m

96
00:02:49,578 –> 00:02:53,002
[martha_shedden]: how much money is at stake for
our lifetime

97
00:02:53,040 –> 00:02:53,364
[paul_tyler]: yeah

98
00:02:53,062 –> 00:02:57,195
[martha_shedden]: amounts and i became quite

99
00:02:57,240 –> 00:02:57,564
[paul_tyler]: yes

100
00:02:57,496 –> 00:02:58,597
[martha_shedden]: fanatical about it

101
00:02:59,265 –> 00:02:59,507
[bruno_caron]: oh

102
00:02:59,298 –> 00:03:03,463
[martha_shedden]: and i decided to go through the
chartered retirement planning councillor program

103
00:03:03,390 –> 00:03:03,673
[paul_tyler]: oh

104
00:03:04,384 –> 00:03:06,630
[martha_shedden]: i had the opportunity to teach a

105
00:03:06,855 –> 00:03:07,116
[bruno_caron]: oh

106
00:03:07,192 –> 00:03:08,956
[martha_shedden]: online course on the basics of

107
00:03:08,925 –> 00:03:09,189
[bruno_caron]: yeah

108
00:03:09,057 –> 00:03:18,332
[martha_shedden]: social security which led to further courses
and that was for mostly for c p

109
00:03:18,533 –> 00:03:22,941
[martha_shedden]: as so i did that through three
different providers and that’s how i met my

110
00:03:23,062 –> 00:03:28,297
[martha_shedden]: current co founder and business partner michael
rosedale who’s a c p a in new

111
00:03:28,357 –> 00:03:32,554
[martha_shedden]: york and i’m in california and we
founded narsa in

112
00:03:32,499 –> 00:03:32,520
[paul_tyler]: m

113
00:03:32,634 –> 00:03:40,128
[martha_shedden]: two thousand seventeen he saw the need
excuse me he saw the need and he

114
00:03:40,309 –> 00:03:42,877
[martha_shedden]: saw the opportunity for

115
00:03:42,795 –> 00:03:42,999
[bruno_caron]: oh

116
00:03:42,978 –> 00:03:49,722
[martha_shedden]: tax professionals to use this as an
addition to their services because the way i

117
00:03:50,383 –> 00:03:55,111
[martha_shedden]: i had started my own business and
what i was doing was offering client analyses

118
00:03:55,231 –> 00:04:02,378
[martha_shedden]: for a fixed fee and that seemed
to deal well with the tax profession as

119
00:04:02,478 –> 00:04:08,408
[martha_shedden]: another service they could offer and it
has expanded beyond that so we

120
00:04:08,340 –> 00:04:08,704
[paul_tyler]: oh

121
00:04:08,745 –> 00:04:08,927
[bruno_caron]: ye

122
00:04:08,809 –> 00:04:15,288
[martha_shedden]: created the five module training corps um
we are very unique in that the fifth

123
00:04:15,429 –> 00:04:21,308
[martha_shedden]: module is training using our software to
do the client analysis so someone who goes

124
00:04:21,368 –> 00:04:26,012
[martha_shedden]: through the course passes the final exam
then is an r s s a register

125
00:04:26,092 –> 00:04:27,193
[martha_shedden]: so security analyst

126
00:04:27,075 –> 00:04:27,258
[bruno_caron]: oh

127
00:04:27,273 –> 00:04:35,298
[martha_shedden]: and they are equipped to with our
support to help their clients with that claiming

128
00:04:35,338 –> 00:04:35,701
[martha_shedden]: decision

129
00:04:36,872 –> 00:04:46,465
[paul_tyler]: got it and just since you’re so
focused on this and question around trajectories for

130
00:04:47,007 –> 00:04:50,837
[paul_tyler]: client conversations and please correct me if
i’m wrong you know were in the middle

131
00:04:50,857 –> 00:04:56,777
[paul_tyler]: of medicare openrolment we sell medicare supplement
surance so we’re starting those calls

132
00:04:56,535 –> 00:04:57,002
[bruno_caron]: oh

133
00:04:56,857 –> 00:05:02,526
[paul_tyler]: and and there clearly is part of
the population that sort of starts that retirement

134
00:05:02,586 –> 00:05:05,752
[paul_tyler]: conversation with health care because people or
work until they’re

135
00:05:05,764 –> 00:05:06,008
[martha_shedden]: yes

136
00:05:05,792 –> 00:05:08,256
[paul_tyler]: sixty five then they must file and
that sort of triggers

137
00:05:08,096 –> 00:05:08,297
[bruno_caron]: yeah

138
00:05:08,296 –> 00:05:13,565
[paul_tyler]: a lot of decisions they haven’t made
um some think in advance some retire early

139
00:05:13,645 –> 00:05:13,865
[paul_tyler]: need to

140
00:05:14,235 –> 00:05:14,255
[bruno_caron]: m

141
00:05:14,466 –> 00:05:17,531
[paul_tyler]: start with retirement early or your

142
00:05:17,404 –> 00:05:17,605
[martha_shedden]: oh

143
00:05:17,631 –> 00:05:24,262
[paul_tyler]: planners social security seems like very critical
track the other direction is housing you know

144
00:05:24,523 –> 00:05:26,546
[paul_tyler]: i got this big house my kids
moved out

145
00:05:27,015 –> 00:05:27,795
[bruno_caron]: oh

146
00:05:27,388 –> 00:05:31,374
[paul_tyler]: where do i live that sort of
says well what are my expenses what the

147
00:05:31,935 –> 00:05:35,862
[paul_tyler]: how do i cut my costs what
do you do with my house where i

148
00:05:35,902 –> 00:05:39,288
[paul_tyler]: put the money are those the three
primary

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[bruno_caron]: yeh

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[paul_tyler]: victors for retirement

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: planning where does social security fit is
that the social security the starting point for

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[paul_tyler]: eighty percent of decisions ninety do you
have a sense

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[martha_shedden]: you know

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[martha_shedden]: i strongly feel personally it should be
the very first decision

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: um m

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[martha_shedden]: we’re eligible at age sixty two with
the technology we have

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: we can help people start planning

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: for retirement in their fifties

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: um so security

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: to me

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: is like an annuity it is a
guaranteed monthly amount with a cost of living

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[martha_shedden]: adjustment we’ve been paying into that program
all of our working lives and um m

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[martha_shedden]: that is something we can build all
the other retirement pieces around there’s not too

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[martha_shedden]: many other unless you have defined benefit
pensions but it is smart to get that

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[martha_shedden]: set and then if you’re trying to
delay collecting what other funds what other

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[martha_shedden]: assets can you use um m so
it’s a puzzle bruno and i were talking

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[martha_shedden]: about that it is

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: a very very tricky puzzle to um
set up those lifetime income streams and so

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[martha_shedden]: that you are withdrawing from your funds
possibly using equity in your home paul like

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[martha_shedden]: you you mentioned m to create the
most tax efficient um

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[martha_shedden]: m level of of finances people people
are looking for that security that that monthly

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[martha_shedden]: check and that security that they’re going
to be okay throughout the retirement years that’s

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[martha_shedden]: i feel it’s really the starting point

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[bruno_caron]: wonderful i mean if you were to
start let’s say with a very basic case

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[bruno_caron]: sixty five year old couple they want
to retire they have assets and to paul’s

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[bruno_caron]: point i mean they all you know
think about their housing health care and and

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[bruno_caron]: all of those other very important buckets
how do frame social security in terms of

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[bruno_caron]: the big considerations you mentioned money you
kind of leave on the table you know

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[bruno_caron]: that inflation protection what are those those
major considerations or in other words how do

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[bruno_caron]: you frame the problem for them in
terms of you now making that the decision

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[bruno_caron]: on when to elect so security

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[martha_shedden]: yeah well i think a lot of
people um do not realize how much money

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[martha_shedden]: is at

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: stake over their lifetimes that

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[martha_shedden]: was

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[martha_shedden]: the biggest thing that

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[bruno_caron]: yes

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[martha_shedden]: hit me when i first started learning
about it i mean the average recipient this

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[martha_shedden]: year we’ll receive about twenty thousand a
year they live another twenty or thirty years

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[martha_shedden]: it’s three to five hundred six hundred
thousand

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: we commonly

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: work with couples who are

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[martha_shedden]: collecting in the millions so this is
it should be thought of as an asset

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00:09:06,034 –> 00:09:14,680
[martha_shedden]: it is many people’s it’s the bulk
of many retires income and retirement and it’s

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[martha_shedden]: often more than they may even have
currently in their investment portfolios so um that

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[martha_shedden]: claiming age especially with couples uno you
mentioned that

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[bruno_caron]: hm

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[martha_shedden]: couples need to plan this decision together
because there are opportunities for spouses m if

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[martha_shedden]: one has significantly lower based benefit amount
they would be collecting based on their spouses

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[martha_shedden]: earnings rather than their own they would
collect the higher of the two their all

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[martha_shedden]: spouses are eligible to collect the spousal
benefit that’s up to fifty percent of your

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[martha_shedden]: spouses

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: p i a their base amount so
the other critical aspect for or couples and

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00:10:08,265 –> 00:10:15,302
[martha_shedden]: this comes into life insurance is that
survivor benefit the survivor of a couple inherits

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[martha_shedden]: larger of the two benefits so really
critical for people

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[martha_shedden]: approaching

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[martha_shedden]: their

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[paul_tyler]: a

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[martha_shedden]: sixties to plan for this i can’t
emphasize how you need to plan for it

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[martha_shedden]: early it’s commonly you know the full
retirement age is between six and sixty seven

235
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[martha_shedden]: but as you probably understand a lot
of people think their full retirement age

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00:10:39,975 –> 00:10:41,085
[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: when they would get one hundred per
cent of their benefit is sixty five because

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00:10:44,424 –> 00:10:49,751
[martha_shedden]: they equate that with with medic care
um but the most you get is not

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00:10:49,851 –> 00:10:56,076
[martha_shedden]: until seventy so there’s there’s a lot
of decision making that that can allow you

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[martha_shedden]: to optimize that income

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[paul_tyler]: martha how do you feel about factoring
and health care

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00:11:02,205 –> 00:11:02,225
[bruno_caron]: m

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00:11:02,618 –> 00:11:07,446
[paul_tyler]: or say say health span use somebody
else’s language health

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00:11:07,284 –> 00:11:07,446
[martha_shedden]: oh

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00:11:07,746 –> 00:11:15,013
[paul_tyler]: health span of a cup when timing
the one they take retirement when the

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00:11:15,144 –> 00:11:15,285
[martha_shedden]: well

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00:11:15,295 –> 00:11:15,436
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:11:15,325 –> 00:11:15,486
[martha_shedden]: that

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00:11:16,770 –> 00:11:17,118
[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:11:16,904 –> 00:11:18,807
[martha_shedden]: that’s a really good question paul because

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00:11:18,885 –> 00:11:19,111
[bruno_caron]: oh

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00:11:18,927 –> 00:11:26,602
[martha_shedden]: the and we consider maximum life expectancy
so we work with our clients to really

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[martha_shedden]: zero

254
00:11:27,855 –> 00:11:27,875
[bruno_caron]: m

255
00:11:28,021 –> 00:11:30,365
[martha_shedden]: in on you want

256
00:11:30,435 –> 00:11:30,636
[bruno_caron]: oh

257
00:11:30,505 –> 00:11:31,467
[martha_shedden]: to plan

258
00:11:31,604 –> 00:11:31,725
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:11:31,607 –> 00:11:36,355
[martha_shedden]: for the maximum age you can live
you don’t want to run

260
00:11:36,219 –> 00:11:36,240
[paul_tyler]: m

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00:11:36,435 –> 00:11:42,936
[martha_shedden]: out of money from any of your
sources that longevity risk is what you’re trying

262
00:11:43,057 –> 00:11:48,211
[martha_shedden]: to you know watch out for and
so

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00:11:49,365 –> 00:11:50,715
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:11:49,914 –> 00:11:52,017
[martha_shedden]: the analysis we provide

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00:11:52,005 –> 00:11:52,605
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[martha_shedden]: takes into account it can look at

267
00:11:55,140 –> 00:11:55,401
[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:11:55,380 –> 00:12:01,708
[martha_shedden]: it can examine many different combinations of
life expectancy

269
00:12:01,785 –> 00:12:01,805
[bruno_caron]: m

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00:12:01,848 –> 00:12:10,399
[martha_shedden]: for couples and it’s not it’s not
average you don’t you don’t want to underestimate

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:12:10,419 –> 00:12:12,261
[martha_shedden]: your life expectancy you may not

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00:12:12,264 –> 00:12:12,285
[bruno_caron]: m

274
00:12:12,501 –> 00:12:15,045
[martha_shedden]: die when you think you’re going to
die so

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[paul_tyler]: and if i die how long

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00:12:16,605 –> 00:12:16,625
[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: do i plan to stay dead yes

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

279
00:12:19,354 –> 00:12:22,198
[martha_shedden]: oh yeah

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[paul_tyler]: you’re

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00:12:23,524 –> 00:12:23,726
[martha_shedden]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: right martha

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[martha_shedden]: i you know a lot

284
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[bruno_caron]: uh

285
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[martha_shedden]: of people

286
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[bruno_caron]: m

287
00:12:28,110 –> 00:12:28,890
[paul_tyler]: oh

288
00:12:28,349 –> 00:12:28,830
[martha_shedden]: they want

289
00:12:28,734 –> 00:12:28,755
[bruno_caron]: h

290
00:12:29,011 –> 00:12:29,953
[martha_shedden]: a break even

291
00:12:29,895 –> 00:12:30,057
[bruno_caron]: oh

292
00:12:30,390 –> 00:12:30,831
[paul_tyler]: oh

293
00:12:30,935 –> 00:12:33,381
[martha_shedden]: we’re struggling with this on our software
because

294
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[bruno_caron]: yeah

295
00:12:34,380 –> 00:12:34,683
[paul_tyler]: oh

296
00:12:35,214 –> 00:12:38,239
[martha_shedden]: you know you see those charges for
if i start at sixty two i’m going

297
00:12:38,279 –> 00:12:42,806
[martha_shedden]: to get this for this long i’m
started seventy it’ll be this but that’s not

298
00:12:42,926 –> 00:12:51,124
[martha_shedden]: really an accurate decision making point for
so security that’s only one person one lifetime

299
00:12:51,030 –> 00:12:51,414
[paul_tyler]: yeah

300
00:12:51,244 –> 00:12:51,885
[martha_shedden]: for couples

301
00:12:51,615 –> 00:12:51,902
[bruno_caron]: oh

302
00:12:51,985 –> 00:12:57,330
[martha_shedden]: there’s so much more involved um and
i haven’t even mentioned you know couples with

303
00:12:57,410 –> 00:12:59,673
[martha_shedden]: a younger spouse there there

304
00:12:59,520 –> 00:13:00,510
[paul_tyler]: oh

305
00:12:59,753 –> 00:13:03,478
[martha_shedden]: are ple where one spouse is may
be ten years younger and they may have

306
00:13:03,558 –> 00:13:09,979
[martha_shedden]: minor children when they retire so there
are so many personal rules and strategies that

307
00:13:10,059 –> 00:13:11,322
[martha_shedden]: affect that decision

308
00:13:11,640 –> 00:13:11,820
[paul_tyler]: yeah

309
00:13:11,985 –> 00:13:13,065
[bruno_caron]: yeah

310
00:13:12,201 –> 00:13:15,128
[paul_tyler]: martha i know a few people in
that category not

311
00:13:15,195 –> 00:13:15,375
[bruno_caron]: um

312
00:13:15,348 –> 00:13:16,150
[paul_tyler]: thankfully not me

313
00:13:16,136 –> 00:13:18,068
[martha_shedden]: he oh

314
00:13:18,444 –> 00:13:18,465
[bruno_caron]: m

315
00:13:18,816 –> 00:13:19,177
[paul_tyler]: thankfully

316
00:13:19,176 –> 00:13:19,216
[bruno_caron]: a

317
00:13:19,217 –> 00:13:19,397
[paul_tyler]: not me

318
00:13:21,975 –> 00:13:29,728
[bruno_caron]: so you mentioned longevity risk which you
know is definitely a topic that comes up

319
00:13:29,928 –> 00:13:37,801
[bruno_caron]: on many of our many of our
our episode um how how do you how

320
00:13:37,841 –> 00:13:42,349
[bruno_caron]: do you view this how do you
explain that to you know to individuals or

321
00:13:42,829 –> 00:13:49,981
[bruno_caron]: couples who are in the midst of
free tiring and explaining that whole that whole

322
00:13:50,682 –> 00:13:55,871
[bruno_caron]: longevity risk and that longevity aspect because
you just you just mentioned that you know

323
00:13:56,071 –> 00:14:00,599
[bruno_caron]: a return on investment is one way
to look at it but that’s that’s that’s

324
00:14:00,679 –> 00:14:04,746
[bruno_caron]: not necessarily the dynamic here there’s an
unknown

325
00:14:04,617 –> 00:14:04,637
[martha_shedden]: h

326
00:14:04,926 –> 00:14:09,915
[bruno_caron]: element how do you deal with that
and how do you explain that to two

327
00:14:10,879 –> 00:14:12,527
[bruno_caron]: your clients and other retires

328
00:14:13,664 –> 00:14:19,695
[martha_shedden]: well it’s all it’s all about showing
them the numbers and that’s

329
00:14:19,515 –> 00:14:19,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

330
00:14:20,236 –> 00:14:24,643
[martha_shedden]: one of the aspects that i love
so much i’m such a number person and

331
00:14:24,723 –> 00:14:34,105
[martha_shedden]: such a problem solver and there is
nothing more satisfying than helping helping people make

332
00:14:34,165 –> 00:14:42,118
[martha_shedden]: this large financial decision with the software
and the analysis and the charts and tables

333
00:14:42,219 –> 00:14:48,114
[martha_shedden]: our software creates we can show them
they can ask us any question at if

334
00:14:48,335 –> 00:14:52,451
[martha_shedden]: i live this long and my spouse
dies at this age what does that look

335
00:14:52,551 –> 00:14:58,079
[martha_shedden]: like we can show them the difference
in lifetime amount the difference in annual and

336
00:14:58,139 –> 00:15:06,245
[martha_shedden]: monthly amount and they and those comparisons
then they’re able to make that decision is

337
00:15:06,325 –> 00:15:12,868
[martha_shedden]: this worth it to me is it
worth it too to wait so i feel

338
00:15:13,049 –> 00:15:20,066
[martha_shedden]: like the visual and the review of
the output from the analysis is what really

339
00:15:20,166 –> 00:15:25,439
[martha_shedden]: really brings that home because they can
see it in dollars in today’s dollars

340
00:15:25,875 –> 00:15:26,359
[bruno_caron]: he’s in

341
00:15:26,444 –> 00:15:31,481
[martha_shedden]: and they can ask themselves how much
does that matter to me is it worth

342
00:15:31,562 –> 00:15:31,622
[martha_shedden]: it

343
00:15:37,095 –> 00:15:39,045
[bruno_caron]: oh

344
00:15:38,241 –> 00:15:39,624
[paul_tyler]: we we as an industry martha are

345
00:15:39,555 –> 00:15:39,761
[bruno_caron]: oh

346
00:15:39,664 –> 00:15:46,125
[paul_tyler]: always kind of focused on and people
to delay retirement have you ever recommended to

347
00:15:46,185 –> 00:15:48,948
[paul_tyler]: file early maybe you tell us a
story or two if you if you have

348
00:15:49,008 –> 00:15:49,329
[paul_tyler]: done that

349
00:15:52,246 –> 00:15:57,518
[martha_shedden]: yes there are often that’s a really
good question there are many many people who

350
00:15:57,639 –> 00:15:59,062
[martha_shedden]: need to file early

351
00:15:59,190 –> 00:15:59,313
[paul_tyler]: ye

352
00:16:00,435 –> 00:16:06,628
[martha_shedden]: they are not able to keep working
they may have helped real health issues that

353
00:16:07,002 –> 00:16:07,164
[paul_tyler]: ah

354
00:16:07,069 –> 00:16:14,654
[martha_shedden]: do indicate a shorter life span so
that’s why we talk about making the optimal

355
00:16:14,734 –> 00:16:21,439
[martha_shedden]: decision it’s not all about maximizing your
lifetime income it’s making the optimal decision for

356
00:16:21,519 –> 00:16:31,415
[martha_shedden]: your circumstances um m so it’s i
don’t know that i’ve ever recommended it but

357
00:16:31,758 –> 00:16:41,255
[martha_shedden]: it’s it’s all about understanding your personal
circumstances don’t just claim early because you’re neighbor

358
00:16:41,656 –> 00:16:46,009
[martha_shedden]: your cousin you know people said take
the money invest it you can get more

359
00:16:45,870 –> 00:16:46,112
[paul_tyler]: yeah

360
00:16:46,089 –> 00:16:51,531
[martha_shedden]: on your returns if you take the
money and invest i mean become educated and

361
00:16:51,671 –> 00:17:01,327
[martha_shedden]: know what your now what your personal
rules and options are i think i

362
00:17:01,425 –> 00:17:01,607
[bruno_caron]: oh

363
00:17:01,447 –> 00:17:08,660
[martha_shedden]: just read yesterday that over half of
retires collect before their full retirement age which

364
00:17:08,740 –> 00:17:19,103
[martha_shedden]: is sixty six to sixty seven and
um m i think quarter of men collect

365
00:17:19,184 –> 00:17:19,948
[martha_shedden]: at sixty two

366
00:17:20,979 –> 00:17:21,000
[paul_tyler]: m

367
00:17:21,764 –> 00:17:25,889
[martha_shedden]: that fifty percent a quarter of the
men collected sixty two and about a third

368
00:17:25,969 –> 00:17:31,289
[martha_shedden]: of the women collected sixty two now
that’s changing it as people become more and

369
00:17:31,330 –> 00:17:36,672
[martha_shedden]: more aware they’re waiting but still only
i think five percent of men and seven

370
00:17:36,712 –> 00:17:42,460
[martha_shedden]: percent of women actually wait till seventy
but many many can’t many can’t afford to

371
00:17:42,540 –> 00:17:42,761
[martha_shedden]: wake

372
00:17:43,300 –> 00:17:43,321
[paul_tyler]: a

373
00:17:45,024 –> 00:17:45,045
[martha_shedden]: o

374
00:17:45,321 –> 00:17:50,951
[paul_tyler]: those those are really interesting stats so
you know we’ve got a society

375
00:17:50,745 –> 00:17:50,967
[bruno_caron]: yes

376
00:17:51,812 –> 00:17:51,832
[paul_tyler]: i

377
00:17:51,855 –> 00:17:52,078
[bruno_caron]: oh

378
00:17:51,912 –> 00:17:58,710
[paul_tyler]: know bruno collectively making the optimally bad
decision um martha i mean how many what

379
00:17:58,770 –> 00:18:03,982
[paul_tyler]: percent do you think are correctly making
that early option to early making early

380
00:18:03,904 –> 00:18:04,534
[martha_shedden]: yeah

381
00:18:04,022 –> 00:18:10,889
[paul_tyler]: decision what per cent just don’t understand
and then what per cent just got bad

382
00:18:10,949 –> 00:18:11,349
[paul_tyler]: advice

383
00:18:13,964 –> 00:18:19,595
[martha_shedden]: i think the majority i mean we’ve
there statistics that show that ninety six percent

384
00:18:19,755 –> 00:18:21,779
[martha_shedden]: of retires have not made the

385
00:18:21,864 –> 00:18:21,885
[bruno_caron]: m

386
00:18:21,880 –> 00:18:25,785
[martha_shedden]: optima claiming decision only about four per
cent have

387
00:18:25,558 –> 00:18:26,445
[bruno_caron]: m m

388
00:18:26,446 –> 00:18:29,069
[martha_shedden]: meaning that they’re they’re leaving money on
the table

389
00:18:29,055 –> 00:18:29,300
[bruno_caron]: oh

390
00:18:29,189 –> 00:18:31,171
[martha_shedden]: an average of over a hundred and
ten

391
00:18:31,155 –> 00:18:32,175
[bruno_caron]: oh

392
00:18:31,271 –> 00:18:40,605
[martha_shedden]: thousand dollars per household over their lifetimes
um m o i that is that’s one

393
00:18:40,665 –> 00:18:45,230
[martha_shedden]: of my biggest passions is to get
the word out there that there is help

394
00:18:45,471 –> 00:18:49,719
[martha_shedden]: to be had for this we not
only train advisors

395
00:18:49,425 –> 00:18:49,445
[bruno_caron]: m

396
00:18:50,140 –> 00:18:55,169
[martha_shedden]: to help their clients but we also
have in house r s sas to do

397
00:18:55,250 –> 00:19:03,212
[martha_shedden]: analysis and it it’s so much worth
your time and effort to

398
00:19:03,795 –> 00:19:04,097
[bruno_caron]: yes

399
00:19:04,214 –> 00:19:09,741
[martha_shedden]: reach out and and have find someone
who’s you know educated on social

400
00:19:09,585 –> 00:19:09,605
[bruno_caron]: m

401
00:19:09,781 –> 00:19:10,763
[martha_shedden]: security to help you

402
00:19:13,036 –> 00:19:18,184
[bruno_caron]: at makes that makes perfect sense and
it gets me to my kind of next

403
00:19:18,264 –> 00:19:25,937
[bruno_caron]: topic which is very very current is
is inflation and think that a lot of

404
00:19:27,500 –> 00:19:35,854
[bruno_caron]: you know a lot of lot of
the headlines are around inflation and in trance

405
00:19:35,914 –> 00:19:44,248
[bruno_caron]: carriers are a little shy of hovering
any lifetime income that is inflation protected or

406
00:19:44,889 –> 00:19:51,399
[bruno_caron]: has some some inflation feature which led
just to you now as individuals probably the

407
00:19:51,520 –> 00:20:00,595
[bruno_caron]: only lever or mechanism that we or
option available is is social security how do

408
00:20:00,655 –> 00:20:04,463
[bruno_caron]: you how do you view this how
do you address this and how do you

409
00:20:04,804 –> 00:20:08,070
[bruno_caron]: how do you strategize this for for
individuals

410
00:20:10,374 –> 00:20:16,324
[martha_shedden]: um well you’re you’re so correct it
is really the one of the few that

411
00:20:16,464 –> 00:20:21,071
[martha_shedden]: is still inflation adjusted and there’s a
good and the bad side to that i

412
00:20:21,132 –> 00:20:22,033
[martha_shedden]: mean as we just saw

413
00:20:22,065 –> 00:20:22,226
[bruno_caron]: yah

414
00:20:22,153 –> 00:20:23,436
[martha_shedden]: that week the current

415
00:20:23,214 –> 00:20:23,235
[bruno_caron]: h

416
00:20:23,816 –> 00:20:29,969
[martha_shedden]: the new upcoming cost delivering adjustment is
eight point seven cent but that means inflation

417
00:20:30,069 –> 00:20:32,484
[martha_shedden]: is going up and um

418
00:20:32,505 –> 00:20:32,727
[bruno_caron]: yeah

419
00:20:33,085 –> 00:20:37,411
[martha_shedden]: and there are you know there are
those that don’t feel the way that cost

420
00:20:37,511 –> 00:20:45,091
[martha_shedden]: of living adjustment is calculated accurately reflects
the costs of retiring but given all of

421
00:20:45,151 –> 00:20:51,586
[martha_shedden]: that it’s still better than nothing and
i will

422
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:52,230
[paul_tyler]: oh

423
00:20:51,707 –> 00:20:58,546
[martha_shedden]: take advantage of that question bruno to
to make a clarification that people misunderstand about

424
00:20:58,586 –> 00:21:06,447
[martha_shedden]: that cost of living adjustment um m
that was released last week and it will

425
00:21:06,547 –> 00:21:13,098
[martha_shedden]: start applying to individuals benefits in january
of twenty twenty three now that does not

426
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:17,676
[martha_shedden]: mean you should race to start collecting
so you miss out on it

427
00:21:18,548 –> 00:21:18,568
[bruno_caron]: h

428
00:21:18,794 –> 00:21:19,576
[martha_shedden]: in reality

429
00:21:19,674 –> 00:21:19,695
[bruno_caron]: m

430
00:21:19,957 –> 00:21:25,030
[martha_shedden]: once you turn sixty two the cost
of living adjustment is applied to

431
00:21:25,095 –> 00:21:25,336
[bruno_caron]: oh

432
00:21:25,150 –> 00:21:29,882
[martha_shedden]: your base benefit every year whether you
are collecting or not

433
00:21:30,285 –> 00:21:30,570
[bruno_caron]: oh

434
00:21:30,824 –> 00:21:32,265
[martha_shedden]: don’t use that

435
00:21:32,424 –> 00:21:32,947
[bruno_caron]: m yeah

436
00:21:33,286 –> 00:21:34,147
[martha_shedden]: that desperate

437
00:21:33,885 –> 00:21:33,905
[bruno_caron]: m

438
00:21:34,207 –> 00:21:37,251
[martha_shedden]: you know and then i’m going to
take advantage and get that eight point seven

439
00:21:37,291 –> 00:21:39,213
[martha_shedden]: per cent you will get that eventually

440
00:21:38,715 –> 00:21:38,957
[bruno_caron]: yeah

441
00:21:42,045 –> 00:21:42,368
[martha_shedden]: waiting

442
00:21:42,677 –> 00:21:42,882
[bruno_caron]: yeah

443
00:21:43,294 –> 00:21:44,988
[martha_shedden]: as well as collecting now

444
00:21:45,082 –> 00:21:46,705
[paul_tyler]: so it’s interesting

445
00:21:46,635 –> 00:21:46,856
[bruno_caron]: oh

446
00:21:47,386 –> 00:21:50,171
[paul_tyler]: at least the last i think martha
you’re

447
00:21:49,935 –> 00:21:50,257
[bruno_caron]: oh

448
00:21:50,191 –> 00:21:55,379
[paul_tyler]: the expert i think the last five
or ten years of c p i adjustments

449
00:21:55,560 –> 00:21:55,900
[paul_tyler]: ave been

450
00:21:55,815 –> 00:21:56,016
[bruno_caron]: oh

451
00:21:56,201 –> 00:21:56,842
[paul_tyler]: related to

452
00:21:57,165 –> 00:21:57,945
[bruno_caron]: yeah

453
00:21:57,643 –> 00:22:02,271
[paul_tyler]: or driven i believe by health rising
health care cost which is going to really

454
00:22:02,311 –> 00:22:02,872
[paul_tyler]: hit seniors

455
00:22:02,715 –> 00:22:02,959
[bruno_caron]: oh

456
00:22:03,152 –> 00:22:09,583
[paul_tyler]: right so and immediately you know you
got one or two percent increase your midicare

457
00:22:09,623 –> 00:22:13,349
[paul_tyler]: premiums went up the same okay what
it really matter this time this time it

458
00:22:13,389 –> 00:22:20,180
[paul_tyler]: sounds like medicarepremiums are going to stay
flat um because inflations hitting other parts of

459
00:22:20,200 –> 00:22:23,404
[paul_tyler]: the economy do you think this is
going to wash out is still neutral for

460
00:22:23,484 –> 00:22:26,306
[paul_tyler]: seniors or do you think it’s it’ll
actually

461
00:22:26,115 –> 00:22:26,135
[bruno_caron]: m

462
00:22:26,387 –> 00:22:28,629
[paul_tyler]: will be a little bit of a
benefit here

463
00:22:29,965 –> 00:22:36,244
[martha_shedden]: i think i think most retires are
going to see this it’s quite significant now

464
00:22:37,888 –> 00:22:38,008
[martha_shedden]: over

465
00:22:37,995 –> 00:22:38,075
[bruno_caron]: oh

466
00:22:38,068 –> 00:22:39,732
[martha_shedden]: the last forty years i mean when

467
00:22:40,785 –> 00:22:41,047
[bruno_caron]: oh

468
00:22:40,964 –> 00:22:43,992
[martha_shedden]: i’ve been working in this field for
about twelve years

469
00:22:43,995 –> 00:22:44,399
[bruno_caron]: oh

470
00:22:44,092 –> 00:22:50,284
[martha_shedden]: and there were several years of zero
cost of living adjustment but m to that

471
00:22:50,404 –> 00:22:56,615
[martha_shedden]: topic specifically you know last year the
medic are premiums went up so high and

472
00:22:56,655 –> 00:23:05,457
[martha_shedden]: that was basically based on one individual
drug that was over wasn’t calculated quite correctly

473
00:23:06,138 –> 00:23:06,739
[martha_shedden]: this year

474
00:23:06,915 –> 00:23:07,116
[bruno_caron]: oh

475
00:23:07,080 –> 00:23:09,934
[martha_shedden]: the premium is going down and i’ve

476
00:23:09,840 –> 00:23:10,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

477
00:23:10,014 –> 00:23:16,101
[martha_shedden]: never heard of that happening before so
not only are retires getting that cost of

478
00:23:16,161 –> 00:23:23,427
[martha_shedden]: living adjustment from sol security their medic
are premiums are usually deducted from their

479
00:23:23,307 –> 00:23:23,451
[bruno_caron]: yeah

480
00:23:23,587 –> 00:23:29,572
[martha_shedden]: socurity benefit so that’s going to increase
to because it went down instead of up

481
00:23:29,673 –> 00:23:36,817
[martha_shedden]: this year but yes the health care
costs that’s the biggest unknown

482
00:23:36,840 –> 00:23:37,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah

483
00:23:36,957 –> 00:23:39,482
[martha_shedden]: for retires and that’s the scariest

484
00:23:40,020 –> 00:23:40,261
[paul_tyler]: yeah

485
00:23:40,484 –> 00:23:48,802
[martha_shedden]: topic talk to deal with so whatever
you can do to get that guaranteed income

486
00:23:49,424 –> 00:23:55,180
[martha_shedden]: i mean we we look at all
kinds of different avenues for that you mentioned

487
00:23:55,882 –> 00:24:03,603
[martha_shedden]: m real estate paul and m we’re
partner with the national reverse mortgage lenders association

488
00:24:03,764 –> 00:24:13,405
[martha_shedden]: because i have a good friend and
those two go hand in hand i reverse

489
00:24:13,485 –> 00:24:14,668
[martha_shedden]: mortgages or home

490
00:24:14,685 –> 00:24:14,705
[bruno_caron]: m

491
00:24:14,808 –> 00:24:22,520
[martha_shedden]: equity conversion mortgages are another topic that
retiring should be educated on it

492
00:24:22,575 –> 00:24:22,797
[bruno_caron]: oh

493
00:24:22,620 –> 00:24:25,568
[martha_shedden]: could be a wonderful option

494
00:24:25,610 –> 00:24:25,651
[bruno_caron]: h

495
00:24:25,708 –> 00:24:26,471
[martha_shedden]: for many people

496
00:24:26,364 –> 00:24:26,385
[bruno_caron]: h

497
00:24:26,571 –> 00:24:30,502
[martha_shedden]: with the rising costs and the equity
that many people have in there

498
00:24:30,867 –> 00:24:30,969
[bruno_caron]: ah

499
00:24:31,264 –> 00:24:32,232
[martha_shedden]: their homes and there’s

500
00:24:32,204 –> 00:24:32,265
[bruno_caron]: ah

501
00:24:32,292 –> 00:24:35,037
[martha_shedden]: a lot of ways to to use
that equity

502
00:24:38,665 –> 00:24:43,613
[bruno_caron]: no thank you that that makes that
makes perfect sense and i think on on

503
00:24:43,753 –> 00:24:45,176
[bruno_caron]: that note on the whole

504
00:24:45,630 –> 00:24:45,951
[paul_tyler]: yeah

505
00:24:46,137 –> 00:24:48,261
[bruno_caron]: you know he heal care expense

506
00:24:48,079 –> 00:24:48,219
[paul_tyler]: yeah

507
00:24:48,341 –> 00:24:54,832
[bruno_caron]: is i think we i agree it’s
a it’s a major unknown for four retires

508
00:24:55,673 –> 00:25:00,241
[bruno_caron]: um and i really want to underscore
one of

509
00:25:00,450 –> 00:25:00,714
[paul_tyler]: oh

510
00:25:00,722 –> 00:25:05,810
[bruno_caron]: the things you just said in your
ens was that because of that unknown you

511
00:25:05,870 –> 00:25:07,914
[bruno_caron]: want to maximize that

512
00:25:08,104 –> 00:25:08,325
[martha_shedden]: yeah

513
00:25:08,575 –> 00:25:11,740
[bruno_caron]: lifetime income or that income from from
social security

514
00:25:11,370 –> 00:25:12,390
[paul_tyler]: yeah

515
00:25:12,514 –> 00:25:12,534
[martha_shedden]: m

516
00:25:12,702 –> 00:25:12,885
[paul_tyler]: yes

517
00:25:12,962 –> 00:25:13,283
[bruno_caron]: which is

518
00:25:14,640 –> 00:25:15,300
[paul_tyler]: yeah

519
00:25:15,552 –> 00:25:23,585
[bruno_caron]: sometimes other advisers or other professionals would
use lifetime income the other way around where

520
00:25:23,725 –> 00:25:27,211
[bruno_caron]: you would say you know lifetime income
is not liquid therefore it’s

521
00:25:27,150 –> 00:25:27,840
[paul_tyler]: yeah

522
00:25:27,311 –> 00:25:32,740
[bruno_caron]: not good for for health gave but
i really like the way you portrait it

523
00:25:32,820 –> 00:25:37,809
[bruno_caron]: and you put it out there is
you know the more income you have h

524
00:25:38,049 –> 00:25:41,855
[bruno_caron]: ou know the more you can deal
with health care expenses and not just that

525
00:25:42,216 –> 00:25:46,723
[bruno_caron]: one health care expense but health care
expenses through the rest of your life and

526
00:25:46,804 –> 00:25:47,144
[bruno_caron]: on top

527
00:25:47,137 –> 00:25:47,321
[martha_shedden]: right

528
00:25:47,204 –> 00:25:47,525
[bruno_caron]: of that

529
00:25:47,901 –> 00:25:48,084
[paul_tyler]: yeah

530
00:25:48,306 –> 00:25:52,112
[bruno_caron]: having more income allows you to rely
less on

531
00:25:52,080 –> 00:25:52,282
[paul_tyler]: ye

532
00:25:52,753 –> 00:25:58,024
[bruno_caron]: the rest of you portfolio to know
so that when you know when when that

533
00:25:59,186 –> 00:26:06,460
[bruno_caron]: catastrophe happens you’re in a bed and
position to to deal with it um so

534
00:26:07,802 –> 00:26:13,071
[bruno_caron]: do you want to expend a little
more on you know value on income within

535
00:26:13,171 –> 00:26:16,503
[bruno_caron]: that health care expend context

536
00:26:17,194 –> 00:26:25,267
[martha_shedden]: yes it’s it’s so critical that’s i
think that’s most retire is biggest fear and

537
00:26:25,327 –> 00:26:30,956
[martha_shedden]: it’s what our clients worry about so
much and so like you just stated anything

538
00:26:31,016 –> 00:26:39,387
[martha_shedden]: you can do to maximize that monthly
dream of income i mean remember we’re just

539
00:26:39,448 –> 00:26:46,831
[martha_shedden]: talking about it’s like an annuity um
m there are ole planning for retirement should

540
00:26:47,974 –> 00:26:50,356
[martha_shedden]: looking for all avenues

541
00:26:50,025 –> 00:26:50,230
[bruno_caron]: oh

542
00:26:50,476 –> 00:26:55,521
[martha_shedden]: that they can they can use for
that many people don’t have long term care

543
00:26:55,701 –> 00:26:57,803
[martha_shedden]: medic hair doesn’t doesn’t cover that

544
00:26:58,680 –> 00:26:58,700
[paul_tyler]: m

545
00:26:58,764 –> 00:27:03,710
[martha_shedden]: ah and it’s just a horrible thought
to reach you know the end of our

546
00:27:03,830 –> 00:27:05,333
[martha_shedden]: years and be faced with

547
00:27:05,850 –> 00:27:07,059
[paul_tyler]: oh yeah

548
00:27:07,306 –> 00:27:09,792
[martha_shedden]: extremely high costs in

549
00:27:10,224 –> 00:27:10,245
[bruno_caron]: m

550
00:27:10,794 –> 00:27:16,067
[martha_shedden]: be thinking ahead where can i where
can i turn if i need that at

551
00:27:16,107 –> 00:27:19,472
[martha_shedden]: that time and that’s why i that’s
why i kind of veered off track and

552
00:27:19,532 –> 00:27:26,564
[martha_shedden]: mentioned that home equity conversion workes because
there are ways to plan for these really

553
00:27:26,684 –> 00:27:31,633
[martha_shedden]: extraordinary health you know and medical costs
that could hit us later

554
00:27:32,350 –> 00:27:32,532
[paul_tyler]: yeah

555
00:27:32,924 –> 00:27:34,595
[martha_shedden]: it’s very it’s very scary

556
00:27:35,700 –> 00:27:41,049
[paul_tyler]: i was at a risk management medi
offsite yesterday it was interesting i don’t know

557
00:27:42,151 –> 00:27:42,391
[paul_tyler]: there’s

558
00:27:42,615 –> 00:27:42,898
[bruno_caron]: oh

559
00:27:42,952 –> 00:27:45,416
[paul_tyler]: there’s a downer of meeting now

560
00:27:46,185 –> 00:27:47,835
[bruno_caron]: oh

561
00:27:47,179 –> 00:27:47,740
[paul_tyler]: this is it it’s

562
00:27:48,465 –> 00:27:48,485
[bruno_caron]: m

563
00:27:48,601 –> 00:27:54,291
[paul_tyler]: re living in some very unique times
and i may butcher the statistics but something

564
00:27:54,371 –> 00:28:00,102
[paul_tyler]: like i think this is one of
three years in the last hunt or hunter

565
00:28:00,162 –> 00:28:08,163
[paul_tyler]: plus where stocks equities down hundred i’m
trying to think that what was stock i

566
00:28:08,203 –> 00:28:10,225
[paul_tyler]: guess it was a stock market hundred
years ago sure

567
00:28:12,375 –> 00:28:12,637
[bruno_caron]: yeah

568
00:28:12,687 –> 00:28:12,807
[paul_tyler]: the

569
00:28:12,828 –> 00:28:12,849
[martha_shedden]: i

570
00:28:13,368 –> 00:28:14,429
[paul_tyler]: this is like one of the

571
00:28:14,895 –> 00:28:15,180
[bruno_caron]: oh

572
00:28:15,410 –> 00:28:20,058
[paul_tyler]: three years where both stocks and bonds
have gone down at the same time wait

573
00:28:20,098 –> 00:28:24,265
[paul_tyler]: a second you know you know we’ve
been telling our clients everything about our retirement

574
00:28:24,325 –> 00:28:28,211
[paul_tyler]: planning most of it comes down to
not stock comes down as a location

575
00:28:28,395 –> 00:28:28,597
[bruno_caron]: yeah

576
00:28:28,552 –> 00:28:31,016
[paul_tyler]: seventy ve don’t know seventy

577
00:28:30,914 –> 00:28:31,055
[martha_shedden]: yeah

578
00:28:31,076 –> 00:28:32,098
[paul_tyler]: thirty sixty forty

579
00:28:31,965 –> 00:28:31,985
[bruno_caron]: m

580
00:28:32,138 –> 00:28:32,959
[paul_tyler]: what is it that’s the big

581
00:28:32,925 –> 00:28:33,106
[bruno_caron]: yeah

582
00:28:33,059 –> 00:28:38,629
[paul_tyler]: paul s the biggest decision you can
make um arguably you know one camp can

583
00:28:38,709 –> 00:28:46,802
[paul_tyler]: say look inflation is today we’re experiencing
it’s it’s caused by two unique exogets events

584
00:28:46,882 –> 00:28:48,966
[paul_tyler]: we had this worldwide pandemic and now
we’ve got this

585
00:28:48,885 –> 00:28:48,905
[bruno_caron]: m

586
00:28:49,046 –> 00:28:54,393
[paul_tyler]: crazy country you know trying to like
blow you know bomb a country out of

587
00:28:54,433 –> 00:28:56,374
[paul_tyler]: existence okay and shut down the oil

588
00:28:56,235 –> 00:28:56,397
[martha_shedden]: right

589
00:28:56,454 –> 00:29:02,701
[paul_tyler]: fields there’s another campesisyou know the supply
chain crisis is big

590
00:29:02,595 –> 00:29:02,615
[bruno_caron]: m

591
00:29:03,623 –> 00:29:03,823
[paul_tyler]: you know

592
00:29:03,855 –> 00:29:04,082
[bruno_caron]: oh

593
00:29:03,863 –> 00:29:09,773
[paul_tyler]: we have a lot of demographic changes
across the world where people are retiring out

594
00:29:09,813 –> 00:29:18,024
[paul_tyler]: of critical positions and inflation continue m
what point martha do you start to reset

595
00:29:18,204 –> 00:29:24,094
[paul_tyler]: your the calculus behind those optimizational factors
like does this have to persist six months

596
00:29:24,174 –> 00:29:28,984
[paul_tyler]: twelve months eighteen months before you say
you know i did these plans for you

597
00:29:29,024 –> 00:29:32,857
[paul_tyler]: bruno but let’s let’s re think your
plan

598
00:29:35,154 –> 00:29:37,640
[martha_shedden]: well that’s a really good question and
again

599
00:29:37,496 –> 00:29:37,577
[bruno_caron]: oh

600
00:29:37,720 –> 00:29:45,777
[martha_shedden]: that comes back to the ability to
do these analysis as i mentioned we work

601
00:29:45,837 –> 00:29:50,496
[martha_shedden]: with people in their fifties to plan
the best security

602
00:29:50,130 –> 00:29:50,393
[paul_tyler]: oh

603
00:29:50,797 –> 00:29:52,624
[martha_shedden]: and tax strategy withdrawal

604
00:29:52,170 –> 00:29:52,950
[paul_tyler]: yeah

605
00:29:52,745 –> 00:29:53,387
[martha_shedden]: strategies

606
00:29:54,930 –> 00:29:55,174
[paul_tyler]: oh

607
00:29:55,405 –> 00:29:56,656
[martha_shedden]: and then

608
00:29:57,249 –> 00:29:57,270
[paul_tyler]: m

609
00:29:57,855 –> 00:30:05,005
[martha_shedden]: we can re evaluate that very very
easily along the way until they reach whatever

610
00:30:05,165 –> 00:30:11,449
[martha_shedden]: age it is they’re going to start
collecting and so an advisor out there who

611
00:30:11,770 –> 00:30:17,204
[martha_shedden]: takes this really listic comprehensive view

612
00:30:17,085 –> 00:30:17,347
[bruno_caron]: oh

613
00:30:18,086 –> 00:30:23,454
[martha_shedden]: a retirement plan it’s not a one
time deal it’s something you do at least

614
00:30:23,695 –> 00:30:33,945
[martha_shedden]: annually if not more given today’s circumstances
and you able to it no go in

615
00:30:34,005 –> 00:30:41,717
[martha_shedden]: a slightly different direction if you need
to so it’s um m the financial professionals

616
00:30:41,878 –> 00:30:43,801
[martha_shedden]: out there who understand

617
00:30:43,665 –> 00:30:43,867
[bruno_caron]: yeah

618
00:30:44,342 –> 00:30:51,829
[martha_shedden]: how complicated retirement financial planning is and
are taking this on are those who can

619
00:30:52,130 –> 00:30:56,989
[martha_shedden]: really really help their clients and give
them that peace of mind i think um

620
00:30:57,703 –> 00:31:02,391
[martha_shedden]: m stay with them you know along
the way it’s not a one of one

621
00:31:02,451 –> 00:31:02,972
[martha_shedden]: shot deal

622
00:31:03,707 –> 00:31:06,969
[bruno_caron]: yeah as opposed to social security election

623
00:31:07,380 –> 00:31:07,882
[paul_tyler]: uh

624
00:31:07,690 –> 00:31:08,171
[bruno_caron]: that that

625
00:31:08,063 –> 00:31:08,083
[paul_tyler]: h

626
00:31:08,291 –> 00:31:09,833
[bruno_caron]: is you know a one

627
00:31:09,744 –> 00:31:09,906
[martha_shedden]: yeah

628
00:31:09,894 –> 00:31:11,156
[bruno_caron]: shot deal and

629
00:31:11,619 –> 00:31:11,640
[paul_tyler]: h

630
00:31:12,057 –> 00:31:18,987
[bruno_caron]: hence you know the value of your
your services where i mean you have to

631
00:31:19,487 –> 00:31:23,491
[bruno_caron]: you know you have one chance you
have to think about all of those things

632
00:31:23,571 –> 00:31:31,373
[bruno_caron]: through before you elect how do you
how do you go about you know explaining

633
00:31:31,453 –> 00:31:34,501
[bruno_caron]: that the dynamic to to your clients

634
00:31:35,794 –> 00:31:36,034
[martha_shedden]: well

635
00:31:36,015 –> 00:31:36,035
[bruno_caron]: m

636
00:31:36,134 –> 00:31:43,687
[martha_shedden]: there’s there’s actually two options bruno where
if someone and this is particularly

637
00:31:43,665 –> 00:31:43,846
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:31:43,847 –> 00:31:49,189
[martha_shedden]: pertinent given the last couple of years
in the pandemic and end shift in everyone’s

639
00:31:49,395 –> 00:31:49,621
[bruno_caron]: oh

640
00:31:50,985 –> 00:31:51,647
[martha_shedden]: employment

641
00:31:51,330 –> 00:31:51,572
[paul_tyler]: oh

642
00:31:52,128 –> 00:31:55,577
[martha_shedden]: and how we’re all working now so

643
00:31:55,905 –> 00:31:56,126
[bruno_caron]: oh

644
00:31:56,399 –> 00:31:57,062
[martha_shedden]: once you when

645
00:31:57,094 –> 00:31:57,195
[bruno_caron]: yeah

646
00:31:57,122 –> 00:31:58,546
[martha_shedden]: you first claim

647
00:31:58,590 –> 00:31:59,550
[paul_tyler]: yeah

648
00:31:59,088 –> 00:32:06,216
[martha_shedden]: and you start collecting you have twelve
months to withdraw that application if something changes

649
00:32:06,297 –> 00:32:12,716
[martha_shedden]: or you change your mind you pay
back what you’ve received but without any interest

650
00:32:13,559 –> 00:32:20,783
[martha_shedden]: and then you get the slates wipe
clean you can claim later at any time

651
00:32:20,655 –> 00:32:20,856
[bruno_caron]: oh

652
00:32:21,684 –> 00:32:23,367
[martha_shedden]: um i have a really

653
00:32:23,370 –> 00:32:23,673
[paul_tyler]: oh

654
00:32:23,407 –> 00:32:23,587
[martha_shedden]: good

655
00:32:23,526 –> 00:32:23,546
[bruno_caron]: h

656
00:32:23,748 –> 00:32:25,030
[martha_shedden]: story about that

657
00:32:24,834 –> 00:32:24,855
[bruno_caron]: m

658
00:32:25,110 –> 00:32:26,052
[martha_shedden]: that i’ll share but i

659
00:32:26,055 –> 00:32:26,255
[bruno_caron]: oh

660
00:32:26,172 –> 00:32:29,138
[martha_shedden]: want to touch on this second option
that people don’t know

661
00:32:29,445 –> 00:32:29,686
[bruno_caron]: oh

662
00:32:30,161 –> 00:32:32,948
[martha_shedden]: is if you claimed early between sixty

663
00:32:32,805 –> 00:32:33,106
[bruno_caron]: oh

664
00:32:33,028 –> 00:32:36,598
[martha_shedden]: two and your full retirement age and
you reach your full

665
00:32:36,585 –> 00:32:36,605
[bruno_caron]: m

666
00:32:36,658 –> 00:32:37,621
[martha_shedden]: retirement age

667
00:32:38,325 –> 00:32:38,570
[bruno_caron]: oh

668
00:32:38,744 –> 00:32:41,894
[martha_shedden]: you can you can voluntarily ask the
social

669
00:32:41,715 –> 00:32:41,735
[bruno_caron]: m

670
00:32:41,954 –> 00:32:44,562
[martha_shedden]: security administration to suspend your benefit

671
00:32:44,355 –> 00:32:44,658
[bruno_caron]: oh

672
00:32:45,424 –> 00:32:46,967
[martha_shedden]: and it will start growing

673
00:32:46,815 –> 00:32:46,977
[bruno_caron]: oh

674
00:32:47,108 –> 00:32:51,659
[martha_shedden]: from those delayed retirement credits we haven’t
gotten into many of the details about slow

675
00:32:51,820 –> 00:32:55,606
[martha_shedden]: security but your benefit our benefits increase

676
00:32:55,485 –> 00:32:55,686
[bruno_caron]: oh

677
00:32:55,826 –> 00:32:56,607
[martha_shedden]: every month we

678
00:32:56,854 –> 00:32:56,955
[bruno_caron]: yeah

679
00:32:57,187 –> 00:32:58,068
[martha_shedden]: wait to claim

680
00:32:57,825 –> 00:32:58,067
[bruno_caron]: yah

681
00:32:58,228 –> 00:32:59,610
[martha_shedden]: and from full retirement age

682
00:32:59,683 –> 00:32:59,805
[bruno_caron]: yah

683
00:32:59,750 –> 00:33:00,731
[martha_shedden]: to seventy that

684
00:33:00,765 –> 00:33:01,147
[bruno_caron]: oh

685
00:33:01,171 –> 00:33:02,913
[martha_shedden]: totals up to eight per cent a
year

686
00:33:03,585 –> 00:33:03,605
[bruno_caron]: m

687
00:33:04,064 –> 00:33:07,096
[martha_shedden]: someone who claimed at sixty two spends

688
00:33:06,765 –> 00:33:06,966
[bruno_caron]: yah

689
00:33:07,196 –> 00:33:08,241
[martha_shedden]: at their full retirement

690
00:33:08,274 –> 00:33:08,295
[bruno_caron]: h

691
00:33:08,341 –> 00:33:09,948
[martha_shedden]: age and is able financially

692
00:33:09,405 –> 00:33:09,627
[bruno_caron]: oh

693
00:33:10,029 –> 00:33:11,554
[martha_shedden]: to do that they can

694
00:33:11,985 –> 00:33:12,427
[bruno_caron]: oh

695
00:33:12,136 –> 00:33:15,163
[martha_shedden]: potentially get a thirty two to twenty
four per

696
00:33:15,255 –> 00:33:15,536
[bruno_caron]: oh

697
00:33:15,263 –> 00:33:18,290
[martha_shedden]: cent increase in their benefit by waiting
to collect

698
00:33:18,315 –> 00:33:18,335
[bruno_caron]: m

699
00:33:18,370 –> 00:33:19,232
[martha_shedden]: again til seventy

700
00:33:19,644 –> 00:33:19,665
[bruno_caron]: m

701
00:33:20,094 –> 00:33:21,004
[martha_shedden]: um m

702
00:33:21,165 –> 00:33:21,447
[bruno_caron]: oh

703
00:33:21,384 –> 00:33:22,766
[martha_shedden]: i have a group of women

704
00:33:23,003 –> 00:33:23,145
[bruno_caron]: yeah

705
00:33:24,069 –> 00:33:24,750
[martha_shedden]: that i’m friends

706
00:33:24,495 –> 00:33:24,778
[bruno_caron]: oh

707
00:33:24,813 –> 00:33:24,916
[paul_tyler]: ah

708
00:33:24,850 –> 00:33:29,117
[martha_shedden]: with and one of them had started
collecting she heard me talking about

709
00:33:29,004 –> 00:33:29,025
[bruno_caron]: m

710
00:33:29,198 –> 00:33:30,901
[martha_shedden]: all the nuances of

711
00:33:30,915 –> 00:33:31,316
[bruno_caron]: oh

712
00:33:31,081 –> 00:33:36,704
[martha_shedden]: spousal and there was a rule at
sed

713
00:33:36,675 –> 00:33:36,855
[bruno_caron]: oh

714
00:33:36,865 –> 00:33:39,633
[martha_shedden]: out but she met the age requirement

715
00:33:39,345 –> 00:33:41,295
[bruno_caron]: oh

716
00:33:39,713 –> 00:33:44,928
[martha_shedden]: for that rule and she withdrew her
application

717
00:33:45,795 –> 00:33:45,815
[bruno_caron]: m

718
00:33:45,984 –> 00:33:51,033
[martha_shedden]: she was collecting on her own benefit
paid back the money that she had collected

719
00:33:51,755 –> 00:33:57,438
[martha_shedden]: and was able to collect a spousal
benefit based on her husband’s earnings for four

720
00:33:57,598 –> 00:34:05,328
[martha_shedden]: years and due to a combination of
waiting and the delay credit and the work

721
00:34:05,409 –> 00:34:11,619
[martha_shedden]: that she’s doing now she has her
own coffee business her benefit is going to

722
00:34:11,839 –> 00:34:20,256
[martha_shedden]: increase threefold from what she it’s getting
when she first started that’s those are the

723
00:34:20,276 –> 00:34:21,661
[martha_shedden]: kind of things that are just so

724
00:34:22,272 –> 00:34:22,434
[bruno_caron]: yes

725
00:34:22,644 –> 00:34:23,545
[martha_shedden]: misunderstood

726
00:34:23,175 –> 00:34:23,195
[bruno_caron]: m

727
00:34:23,646 –> 00:34:27,033
[martha_shedden]: and so hidden that that we try
to help people with

728
00:34:27,495 –> 00:34:27,779
[bruno_caron]: oh

729
00:34:28,001 –> 00:34:32,087
[paul_tyler]: i have two last questions for you
and one for from an advisor perspective

730
00:34:31,764 –> 00:34:31,785
[bruno_caron]: m

731
00:34:32,168 –> 00:34:38,037
[paul_tyler]: one from a i guess client perspective
from advisor sectiveyoue got an interesting practice martha

732
00:34:38,097 –> 00:34:42,704
[paul_tyler]: so you’ve got a podcast right got
an association you do a lot of training

733
00:34:43,205 –> 00:34:50,678
[paul_tyler]: you have a team behind you if
i’m trying to really focus on being a

734
00:34:50,738 –> 00:34:54,085
[paul_tyler]: social security expert in this field what
should i do to be

735
00:34:54,045 –> 00:34:54,226
[bruno_caron]: oh

736
00:34:54,125 –> 00:34:55,788
[paul_tyler]: successful over the next five years

737
00:34:57,914 –> 00:35:04,740
[martha_shedden]: well we’re trying to make that as
easy as possible for our analyst because many

738
00:35:04,800 –> 00:35:10,501
[martha_shedden]: people go through our course they become
an r s s but like i was

739
00:35:10,561 –> 00:35:15,592
[martha_shedden]: saying to bruno before it’s a full
time effort to stay up on this topic

740
00:35:16,264 –> 00:35:18,588
[martha_shedden]: and to know all the nuances and
be

741
00:35:18,654 –> 00:35:18,675
[bruno_caron]: m

742
00:35:18,668 –> 00:35:19,349
[martha_shedden]: doing the

743
00:35:19,395 –> 00:35:19,415
[bruno_caron]: m

744
00:35:19,610 –> 00:35:22,876
[martha_shedden]: analysis so we offer a back office

745
00:35:22,905 –> 00:35:22,925
[bruno_caron]: m

746
00:35:22,996 –> 00:35:29,358
[martha_shedden]: support not only to our analyst but
to any inancial professional out there who wants

747
00:35:29,459 –> 00:35:30,040
[martha_shedden]: help with their

748
00:35:29,925 –> 00:35:30,146
[bruno_caron]: oh

749
00:35:30,120 –> 00:35:32,816
[martha_shedden]: clients so security cases

750
00:35:33,165 –> 00:35:33,915
[bruno_caron]: oh

751
00:35:33,624 –> 00:35:35,951
[martha_shedden]: and we do that we partner with

752
00:35:36,675 –> 00:35:36,695
[bruno_caron]: m

753
00:35:37,274 –> 00:35:44,597
[martha_shedden]: advisers in any way that makes the
most sense financially and you know just if

754
00:35:44,657 –> 00:35:51,298
[martha_shedden]: they want us to actually um working
with the client individually if they want to

755
00:35:51,358 –> 00:35:54,924
[martha_shedden]: be involved they’re not so and then
for our analysts

756
00:35:55,082 –> 00:35:55,183
[paul_tyler]: ah

757
00:35:55,084 –> 00:35:59,712
[martha_shedden]: who are registered members the annual fee
includes our

758
00:35:59,850 –> 00:36:00,070
[paul_tyler]: oh

759
00:35:59,852 –> 00:36:01,222
[martha_shedden]: software and clouds

760
00:36:02,025 –> 00:36:02,267
[bruno_caron]: oh

761
00:36:02,154 –> 00:36:02,835
[martha_shedden]: resources

762
00:36:02,239 –> 00:36:02,280
[paul_tyler]: ah

763
00:36:02,915 –> 00:36:05,701
[martha_shedden]: continuing education marketing tools

764
00:36:05,325 –> 00:36:06,315
[bruno_caron]: oh

765
00:36:07,394 –> 00:36:09,940
[martha_shedden]: podcasts the know so just

766
00:36:11,445 –> 00:36:11,465
[bruno_caron]: m

767
00:36:11,927 –> 00:36:14,200
[martha_shedden]: we’re trying to make it a one
stop shop

768
00:36:14,895 –> 00:36:15,177
[bruno_caron]: oh

769
00:36:15,134 –> 00:36:18,091
[martha_shedden]: or anyone advisors and clients

770
00:36:17,805 –> 00:36:17,825
[bruno_caron]: m

771
00:36:19,376 –> 00:36:23,472
[martha_shedden]: are consumers i should say anybody who
needs help so security

772
00:36:24,180 –> 00:36:27,826
[paul_tyler]: okay then just sort of got advice

773
00:36:27,724 –> 00:36:27,744
[martha_shedden]: m

774
00:36:28,367 –> 00:36:28,587
[paul_tyler]: okay

775
00:36:28,695 –> 00:36:28,715
[bruno_caron]: m

776
00:36:29,389 –> 00:36:31,873
[paul_tyler]: to people who like my wife

777
00:36:32,025 –> 00:36:32,895
[bruno_caron]: oh

778
00:36:32,073 –> 00:36:35,739
[paul_tyler]: opened the for one case statement say
what happened

779
00:36:35,346 –> 00:36:35,446
[bruno_caron]: so

780
00:36:36,642 –> 00:36:37,484
[paul_tyler]: call fidelity

781
00:36:38,595 –> 00:36:38,839
[bruno_caron]: uh

782
00:36:38,787 –> 00:36:40,912
[paul_tyler]: final what went wrong

783
00:36:40,960 –> 00:36:40,981
[bruno_caron]: h

784
00:36:40,992 –> 00:36:41,213
[paul_tyler]: here

785
00:36:41,454 –> 00:36:44,115
[bruno_caron]: m oh oh

786
00:36:44,284 –> 00:36:50,934
[martha_shedden]: that’s don’t panic it’s hard it’s difficult
then i’m

787
00:36:50,985 –> 00:36:51,206
[bruno_caron]: oh

788
00:36:50,994 –> 00:36:58,797
[martha_shedden]: right there with with her i mean
it’s and i just i’m grateful for the

789
00:36:58,857 –> 00:37:04,937
[martha_shedden]: understanding i have of the options i
have personally it just makes me even more

790
00:37:05,137 –> 00:37:05,658
[martha_shedden]: desperate

791
00:37:05,655 –> 00:37:05,675
[bruno_caron]: m

792
00:37:05,799 –> 00:37:10,649
[martha_shedden]: to spread the word of making the
most of your self security

793
00:37:12,285 –> 00:37:14,925
[bruno_caron]: oh

794
00:37:12,393 –> 00:37:19,065
[martha_shedden]: looking at other financial instruments you can
use like we said my fall back is

795
00:37:19,125 –> 00:37:23,550
[martha_shedden]: the equity in my home i mean
i’m in california and i know that years

796
00:37:23,630 –> 00:37:30,855
[martha_shedden]: from now if i need that i’ll
have that so that gives me comfort being

797
00:37:30,945 –> 00:37:31,815
[bruno_caron]: oh

798
00:37:31,015 –> 00:37:36,690
[martha_shedden]: educated and informed takes away a lot
of the anxiety we have such a sense

799
00:37:36,910 –> 00:37:43,838
[martha_shedden]: of relief and appreciation and just you
know people know what they’re going to collect

800
00:37:43,879 –> 00:37:51,740
[martha_shedden]: from social security they can move on
from there um it’s a very very powerful

801
00:37:52,664 –> 00:37:55,412
[martha_shedden]: decision that they’re making and that we’re
helping them with

802
00:37:56,744 –> 00:37:58,994
[paul_tyler]: bruno any final thoughts final questions

803
00:38:00,100 –> 00:38:08,113
[bruno_caron]: no other than an thank you i
think the entire aspect on on income probably

804
00:38:08,133 –> 00:38:10,256
[bruno_caron]: you mentioned it oh my wife’s opening
my

805
00:38:10,260 –> 00:38:10,963
[paul_tyler]: oh

806
00:38:10,557 –> 00:38:16,046
[bruno_caron]: four one case statement what’s going on
here and you know how much you have

807
00:38:16,266 –> 00:38:16,747
[bruno_caron]: how much you’re

808
00:38:16,710 –> 00:38:17,012
[paul_tyler]: yes

809
00:38:16,867 –> 00:38:17,148
[bruno_caron]: worth

810
00:38:18,360 –> 00:38:18,541
[paul_tyler]: yeah

811
00:38:18,590 –> 00:38:24,755
[bruno_caron]: that’s one side of the story how
much ink does that generate that’s n now

812
00:38:25,095 –> 00:38:30,264
[bruno_caron]: that’s an aspect as if not more
important than how much how much you have

813
00:38:30,384 –> 00:38:38,820
[bruno_caron]: and how do you juggle the two
are extremely extremely it’s extremely important so so

814
00:38:38,941 –> 00:38:42,630
[bruno_caron]: no definitely appreciate the discussion martha

815
00:38:43,110 –> 00:38:44,051
[paul_tyler]: yeah martha

816
00:38:43,885 –> 00:38:44,026
[martha_shedden]: oh

817
00:38:44,292 –> 00:38:47,837
[paul_tyler]: we’ll put the show put the show
on you now links is but where should

818
00:38:48,318 –> 00:38:52,185
[paul_tyler]: people want to reach out to advisors
want to reach out to learn about more

819
00:38:52,445 –> 00:38:54,208
[paul_tyler]: about your offering

820
00:38:54,094 –> 00:38:54,318
[martha_shedden]: oh

821
00:38:54,408 –> 00:38:55,995
[paul_tyler]: or follow what’s the best way

822
00:38:58,105 –> 00:39:01,213
[martha_shedden]: well i’ll give you three emails

823
00:39:01,575 –> 00:39:01,779
[bruno_caron]: oh

824
00:39:02,155 –> 00:39:03,879
[martha_shedden]: if you want to reach out to
me personally

825
00:39:03,405 –> 00:39:03,425
[bruno_caron]: m

826
00:39:04,179 –> 00:39:06,765
[martha_shedden]: it’s martha nara

827
00:39:06,885 –> 00:39:07,905
[bruno_caron]: my

828
00:39:07,026 –> 00:39:09,391
[martha_shedden]: dot org n a r f

829
00:39:09,645 –> 00:39:09,867
[bruno_caron]: oh

830
00:39:09,752 –> 00:39:13,040
[martha_shedden]: a dot org and then for information

831
00:39:12,690 –> 00:39:12,890
[paul_tyler]: yeah

832
00:39:13,240 –> 00:39:15,099
[martha_shedden]: on our course as

833
00:39:15,479 –> 00:39:15,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

834
00:39:15,555 –> 00:39:15,756
[bruno_caron]: oh

835
00:39:15,796 –> 00:39:24,437
[martha_shedden]: um imply in fo at r s
s a dot com and for help with

836
00:39:24,577 –> 00:39:31,686
[martha_shedden]: client cases that’s help r s s
a dot com um you can go to

837
00:39:31,767 –> 00:39:37,356
[martha_shedden]: narcadotorg or r s s a dot
com and learn a lot more there’s a

838
00:39:37,436 –> 00:39:38,378
[martha_shedden]: lot of resources

839
00:39:37,905 –> 00:39:38,127
[bruno_caron]: oh

840
00:39:38,538 –> 00:39:40,762
[martha_shedden]: on their frequently ask questions

841
00:39:41,205 –> 00:39:41,486
[bruno_caron]: oh

842
00:39:42,535 –> 00:39:46,460
[martha_shedden]: just reach out to us whatever questions
or information you need

843
00:39:46,800 –> 00:39:46,981
[paul_tyler]: okay

844
00:39:47,625 –> 00:39:47,826
[bruno_caron]: oh

845
00:39:47,664 –> 00:39:49,975
[paul_tyler]: excellent look at the notes will have
the links to click on

846
00:39:50,835 –> 00:39:52,755
[bruno_caron]: oh

847
00:39:52,630 –> 00:39:55,875
[paul_tyler]: no thank you martha thanks so much
enjoyed

848
00:39:55,695 –> 00:39:57,378
[bruno_caron]: m oh

849
00:39:57,618 –> 00:40:00,603
[paul_tyler]: enjoyed being on your show and thank
you for coming and joining us

850
00:40:00,585 –> 00:40:00,807
[bruno_caron]: oh

851
00:40:01,064 –> 00:40:03,889
[paul_tyler]: and again thank our listeners for you
know all your

852
00:40:03,984 –> 00:40:04,005
[bruno_caron]: m

853
00:40:04,149 –> 00:40:09,404
[paul_tyler]: support feed back keep it coming and
join us again next week for another episode

854
00:40:09,465 –> 00:40:11,525
[paul_tyler]: of that annuity show thanks

855
00:40:13,224 –> 00:40:13,591
[martha_shedden]: thank you

856
00:40:13,955 –> 00:40:14,238
[bruno_caron]: thank you

Nick DesrocherEpisode 167: Answering Social Security Questions in Today’s Environment with Martha Shedden
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Episode 166: Keeping Annuity Regulations Rational with Kim O’Brien

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As is often the case in this industry, what is new is old. Today, we’re seeing regulation re-emerge that the industry successfully challenged over 10 years ago. Kim O’Brien, Chief Executive Officer of the Federation of Americans for Consumer Choice joins us to talk about the new regs and court challenges her group currently leads. We also take the opportunity to get her perspective on a number of industry trends.

Links mentioned:

https://facchoice.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-o-brien-4483a55/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,155 –> 00:00:06,122
[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to a nother episode of that annuity show

2
00:00:06,302 –> 00:00:07,344
[paul_tyler]: ramsey good to see you

3
00:00:08,169 –> 00:00:08,993
[ramsey_d_smith]: always glad to be here

4
00:00:09,415 –> 00:00:10,881
[paul_tyler]: an you tell us where you are
today

5
00:00:11,987 –> 00:00:12,928
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m in new york city

6
00:00:13,315 –> 00:00:13,596
[paul_tyler]: new york

7
00:00:13,448 –> 00:00:13,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

8
00:00:13,676 –> 00:00:13,897
[paul_tyler]: city

9
00:00:13,729 –> 00:00:14,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: back back

10
00:00:14,641 –> 00:00:14,862
[paul_tyler]: okay

11
00:00:14,810 –> 00:00:16,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: in my back and my adopted home
town

12
00:00:17,235 –> 00:00:18,156
[paul_tyler]: all right well

13
00:00:18,900 –> 00:00:20,186
[kim_o_brien]: start reading the news

14
00:00:20,195 –> 00:00:20,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

15
00:00:21,061 –> 00:00:22,584
[paul_tyler]: well it was a cut in california

16
00:00:22,027 –> 00:00:23,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

17
00:00:22,804 –> 00:00:28,393
[paul_tyler]: this morning but i’m now in new
york you know the after due i had

18
00:00:28,474 –> 00:00:34,924
[paul_tyler]: night fun in the middle row on
a red eye so i’m here but wouldn’t

19
00:00:34,964 –> 00:00:39,812
[paul_tyler]: miss this for the world we’ve got
just a great guest who’s had a tremendous

20
00:00:39,872 –> 00:00:44,620
[paul_tyler]: impact in the industry on like six
or seven different fronts and you know sometimes

21
00:00:44,661 –> 00:00:48,908
[paul_tyler]: ramsay i think why don’t we get
these people earlier but we do this today

22
00:00:48,948 –> 00:00:55,678
[paul_tyler]: we have kimobrian who’s chief executive officer
at the federation of americans for consumer choice

23
00:00:55,718 –> 00:00:58,663
[paul_tyler]: so kim welcome and maybe tell

24
00:00:58,700 –> 00:00:58,862
[kim_o_brien]: thank

25
00:00:58,703 –> 00:00:58,803
[paul_tyler]: us

26
00:00:58,922 –> 00:00:59,023
[kim_o_brien]: you

27
00:01:00,545 –> 00:01:04,432
[paul_tyler]: who you are what you’re doing and
then maybe give people your your back story

28
00:01:05,214 –> 00:01:10,143
[paul_tyler]: and i think stuff you’ve had really
fascinating career in this industry

29
00:01:11,680 –> 00:01:13,001
[kim_o_brien]: i’ve had a long one i don’t
know

30
00:01:13,245 –> 00:01:13,446
[paul_tyler]: uh

31
00:01:13,541 –> 00:01:14,923
[kim_o_brien]: it’s a fascinating

32
00:01:14,514 –> 00:01:14,535
[paul_tyler]: h

33
00:01:15,023 –> 00:01:15,143
[kim_o_brien]: but

34
00:01:15,075 –> 00:01:15,341
[paul_tyler]: oh

35
00:01:15,984 –> 00:01:18,946
[kim_o_brien]: when you get enough time in you
know you’ve got a lot of stuff going

36
00:01:19,086 –> 00:01:21,108
[kim_o_brien]: on but we have

37
00:01:21,016 –> 00:01:21,096
[paul_tyler]: ah

38
00:01:22,900 –> 00:01:24,763
[kim_o_brien]: he federation is very

39
00:01:24,885 –> 00:01:25,126
[paul_tyler]: yeah

40
00:01:24,903 –> 00:01:25,243
[kim_o_brien]: very

41
00:01:25,973 –> 00:01:26,115
[paul_tyler]: yeah

42
00:01:26,726 –> 00:01:33,337
[kim_o_brien]: absolutely focused on making sure that there’s
a level playing field for independent distribution that

43
00:01:33,417 –> 00:01:40,990
[kim_o_brien]: includes marketing organize ation that includes agencies
and agents we just believe fully that without

44
00:01:41,150 –> 00:01:42,332
[kim_o_brien]: a level playing field

45
00:01:42,315 –> 00:01:42,558
[paul_tyler]: oh

46
00:01:42,552 –> 00:01:45,738
[kim_o_brien]: you know the security people are wonderful
they

47
00:01:45,765 –> 00:01:45,785
[paul_tyler]: m

48
00:01:45,818 –> 00:01:50,025
[kim_o_brien]: all do a good job they do
what they do well but there are non

49
00:01:50,125 –> 00:01:56,055
[kim_o_brien]: security people out there that really understand
the insurance market and the insurance market and

50
00:01:56,095 –> 00:02:02,262
[kim_o_brien]: what we do is the fixed gare
ante products and the federation of americans for

51
00:02:02,322 –> 00:02:10,035
[kim_o_brien]: consumer choice really focuses on annuities fixed
annuities fixed life insurance and fixed long term

52
00:02:10,155 –> 00:02:13,887
[kim_o_brien]: care especially the long term care its
that are attached

53
00:02:14,445 –> 00:02:14,686
[paul_tyler]: oh

54
00:02:14,610 –> 00:02:21,167
[kim_o_brien]: the former two products so that is
what our focuses at the federation and we

55
00:02:21,247 –> 00:02:26,997
[kim_o_brien]: just want to make sure the consumers
have access to that insurance expert tis that

56
00:02:27,097 –> 00:02:33,987
[kim_o_brien]: agents have that is unique and and
probably not seen often enough in the securities

57
00:02:34,968 –> 00:02:39,816
[kim_o_brien]: industry and we want to make sure
that consumers have the choice of the advisor

58
00:02:39,917 –> 00:02:41,399
[kim_o_brien]: or the agent they want to work
with

59
00:02:46,472 –> 00:02:46,594
[paul_tyler]: yeah

60
00:02:46,770 –> 00:02:48,334
[kim_o_brien]: want me to give you a little
background

61
00:02:47,715 –> 00:02:48,258
[paul_tyler]: oh

62
00:02:48,474 –> 00:02:49,797
[kim_o_brien]: or add to that

63
00:02:49,826 –> 00:02:54,173
[paul_tyler]: well yeah i would say choice is
an interesting word it’s loaded right

64
00:02:54,170 –> 00:02:54,292
[kim_o_brien]: yeah

65
00:02:54,453 –> 00:03:00,263
[paul_tyler]: and um you know i just came
out and you didn’t say you were sort

66
00:03:00,303 –> 00:03:08,337
[paul_tyler]: of a leader in the industry the
last time the industry faced significant you know

67
00:03:08,417 –> 00:03:15,136
[paul_tyler]: regulatory changes in because was that was
that two thout thousand nine thousand ten came

68
00:03:15,237 –> 00:03:15,558
[paul_tyler]: correct

69
00:03:17,380 –> 00:03:22,188
[kim_o_brien]: well two thousand and nine and two
thousand and ten was the suit the first

70
00:03:22,509 –> 00:03:27,417
[kim_o_brien]: suitability model that was trying to replicate
the fine model

71
00:03:27,255 –> 00:03:27,945
[paul_tyler]: yeah

72
00:03:27,958 –> 00:03:32,265
[kim_o_brien]: and we were instrument and making sure
that it understood and it was informed

73
00:03:31,824 –> 00:03:31,845
[paul_tyler]: m

74
00:03:32,786 –> 00:03:38,796
[kim_o_brien]: and worked for the insurance side because
fine of course works very well for the

75
00:03:38,876 –> 00:03:43,768
[kim_o_brien]: security side so that started and then
we got hit with one fifty

76
00:03:43,845 –> 00:03:44,107
[paul_tyler]: yeah

77
00:03:43,909 –> 00:03:47,520
[kim_o_brien]: one a from the s c and
twenty ten yeah

78
00:03:46,606 –> 00:03:51,794
[paul_tyler]: yeah mammoth challenged in the in industry
and you were head of napa at that

79
00:03:51,854 –> 00:03:56,322
[paul_tyler]: point in time and it really you
brought i think the industry

80
00:03:56,197 –> 00:03:56,598
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

81
00:03:56,522 –> 00:04:05,739
[paul_tyler]: together and sort of one voice had
really you know had significant you know significant

82
00:04:05,859 –> 00:04:12,039
[paul_tyler]: impact on what the business looks like
today now fast forward to today it feels

83
00:04:12,119 –> 00:04:17,068
[paul_tyler]: like it’s a repeat of you know
that that two thousand nine to two thousand

84
00:04:17,148 –> 00:04:21,998
[paul_tyler]: leven time periods so i guess what’s
similar what’s different with the rogue tory structure

85
00:04:22,360 –> 00:04:24,870
[paul_tyler]: regulatory environment that you see today

86
00:04:27,140 –> 00:04:31,788
[kim_o_brien]: what’s different about the regulatory environment today
both at the state level and the federal

87
00:04:31,848 –> 00:04:36,375
[kim_o_brien]: level but i’ll stick with your point
paul about the federal level is that we

88
00:04:36,475 –> 00:04:44,669
[kim_o_brien]: have now another agency the third time
has inserted itself during one fifty one a

89
00:04:45,070 –> 00:04:50,801
[kim_o_brien]: it was the s c who wanted
fixed indexed annuities at the time they were

90
00:04:50,841 –> 00:04:53,887
[kim_o_brien]: called equity indextenuities and that was

91
00:04:53,895 –> 00:04:54,241
[paul_tyler]: yeah

92
00:04:54,588 –> 00:04:56,371
[kim_o_brien]: what my industry

93
00:04:56,115 –> 00:04:56,904
[paul_tyler]: ye

94
00:04:56,852 –> 00:05:00,237
[kim_o_brien]: we did wrong we called them equity
index and they really aren’t

95
00:05:00,353 –> 00:05:00,495
[paul_tyler]: yah

96
00:05:00,678 –> 00:05:07,069
[kim_o_brien]: equity index there because there’s not just
you know equity in there but we we

97
00:05:07,269 –> 00:05:09,092
[kim_o_brien]: we we to the fixed indexed

98
00:05:08,796 –> 00:05:08,897
[paul_tyler]: ah

99
00:05:09,172 –> 00:05:13,600
[kim_o_brien]: annuity and that was another movement just
to get the name changed so to get

100
00:05:13,660 –> 00:05:15,483
[kim_o_brien]: that understanding about the

101
00:05:15,504 –> 00:05:15,525
[paul_tyler]: m

102
00:05:15,583 –> 00:05:19,029
[kim_o_brien]: fixed aspect that guaranteed insurance aspect of
the product

103
00:05:19,644 –> 00:05:19,665
[paul_tyler]: m

104
00:05:19,870 –> 00:05:25,459
[kim_o_brien]: at the time it was the s
c that wanted to make sure that these

105
00:05:25,540 –> 00:05:30,928
[kim_o_brien]: were considered securities and that’s what we
fought and successfully won we fought it on

106
00:05:30,989 –> 00:05:35,456
[kim_o_brien]: many play and this is very similar
to the department of labor issue that we’re

107
00:05:35,496 –> 00:05:40,685
[kim_o_brien]: fighting right now at one fifty one
a we fought it both at the legislative

108
00:05:40,985 –> 00:05:49,378
[kim_o_brien]: level and also through the courts and
also through just individual impact from agents and

109
00:05:49,478 –> 00:05:53,224
[kim_o_brien]: agencies throughout the industry but we actually
want it

110
00:05:53,865 –> 00:05:54,090
[paul_tyler]: oh

111
00:05:54,105 –> 00:05:59,915
[kim_o_brien]: on the legislative front which was where
napa took the lead with many carriers that

112
00:05:59,975 –> 00:06:05,645
[kim_o_brien]: were very supportive of the effort and
assisted us all along the way but we

113
00:06:05,765 –> 00:06:11,740
[kim_o_brien]: ended up getting as you know the
harken amendment in the dad frank bill which

114
00:06:12,120 –> 00:06:12,941
[kim_o_brien]: declaratively

115
00:06:12,555 –> 00:06:13,305
[paul_tyler]: oh

116
00:06:13,102 –> 00:06:15,284
[kim_o_brien]: said that fixed indexed annuities were not

117
00:06:15,340 –> 00:06:15,582
[bruno_caron]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: securities so that was a huge wind
fast forward to the department they probably we’ve

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[kim_o_brien]: been dealing with this

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: the department since twenty ten on this
this is their third iteration um and on

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[kim_o_brien]: this front we’re suing fact suing

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: the department of labor but we also
have other trades that are working on efforts

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: on the legislative front as well and
we promote those and we you know totally

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[kim_o_brien]: support those but we felt it was
important to file and file a law suit

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[kim_o_brien]: now one because we felt it was
important to let the doll know that we

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[kim_o_brien]: felt that they have overreached their authority
as an agency they were not given this

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[kim_o_brien]: authority from congress

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: through orissa which is required and we
also felt that the removal of what’s called

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[kim_o_brien]: the desert ladder which was a letter
that declaratively said that an

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: agent insurance agent who sells an annuity

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: is not to be considered i’m shortening
it all down but it’s not to be

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[kim_o_brien]: considered an investment advisor or fiduciary and
we felt it was important to just step

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[kim_o_brien]: out early and get the d l
to under dan that they’ve got a law

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[kim_o_brien]: suit pending and we’re going to be
fighting them

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[paul_tyler]: excellent bruno carne our host just joined
us bruno welcome

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hey bruno

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[bruno_caron]: thank you

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[paul_tyler]: yeah and so

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[kim_o_brien]: bruno

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[paul_tyler]: yeah so

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[bruno_caron]: thank you

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[paul_tyler]: so

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[bruno_caron]: welcome

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[paul_tyler]: so so maybe we just dial in
a little bit on the last suit because

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[paul_tyler]: that’s one of the things i’ve been
read and following in the paper maybe tell

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[paul_tyler]: us about what you’re challenging where and
where is the law suit in terms of

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[paul_tyler]: challenging the federal federal regulations that been
enacted

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[kim_o_brien]: well we

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: we filed in texas we incorporated

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: ourselves in texas in anticipation of this

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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[kim_o_brien]: because we knew the doll was not
going to quit even

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: after twenty sixteen fifth circuit decision um
the same staff has been there

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: since twenty ten the same staff we
meet with every time

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: and they

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: you know

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: kept coming forward with new rules and
so we knew that this was probably goin

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[kim_o_brien]: be likely so even though i’m situated
in phoenix we incorporated in texas uh understanding

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[kim_o_brien]: that we would probably be here

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: today and we are so we filed
we have submitted our brief we have three

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[kim_o_brien]: briefing three briefing scheduled

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: um and then an oral argument and
right now we’ve we’ve put our first brief

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[kim_o_brien]: in the d l has filed their
response brief um we get to file another

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[kim_o_brien]: brief they get to fill another brief
oh i misstated there’s only four briefs and

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[kim_o_brien]: then we have oral arguments and ural
arguments have now been pushed

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: out they originally scheduled for december fourteenth

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: but the d l has requested a
delay and everybody’s agreed and the magistrate has

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[kim_o_brien]: agreed so we’re now at liettaorl arguments
in january january eleventh

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[paul_tyler]: so so so the path to do
this i mean i’m a i am an

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[paul_tyler]: attorney but i don’t claim to be
one

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[kim_o_brien]: i’m not a lawyer

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[paul_tyler]: but

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[kim_o_brien]: either so

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[paul_tyler]: but i think

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[kim_o_brien]: i’m

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[paul_tyler]: here

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[kim_o_brien]: just

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[paul_tyler]: at

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[kim_o_brien]: not

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[paul_tyler]: this point so so you file state
i guess trial level is that right

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[kim_o_brien]: yes they call it

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[paul_tyler]: magistrate

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[kim_o_brien]: a magistrate

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[paul_tyler]: um

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[kim_o_brien]: right

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[paul_tyler]: you know i’m sure you’ll win it
gets a p

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[kim_o_brien]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: l at the pellet level in texas

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[kim_o_brien]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: goes to their supreme

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[kim_o_brien]: a

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[paul_tyler]: court and then i guess i will
go straight to the u s supreme court

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[paul_tyler]: is that correct

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[kim_o_brien]: that’s correct

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[paul_tyler]: and

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[kim_o_brien]: that’s the path um

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: we

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: we feel strongly on that will win
and i mentioned early before we recorded as

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: a ex year leader

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: i just got to believe in the
victory but if we don’t we know either

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[kim_o_brien]: party at the magistrate level will appeal

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: so we will be at the apellat
court right after the decision by the magistrate

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[paul_tyler]: and like you know again this is
asking a hard question you know or you

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[paul_tyler]: know eric would give you some rmarnrrgeneral
council would come up with a pretty clever

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[paul_tyler]: answer this how long do you think
this process runs is this a one year

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[paul_tyler]: two year three year process oh

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[kim_o_brien]: that is a good question and it’s
very hard courts are very hard on the

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[kim_o_brien]: magistrate we have and that our legal

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: litigation council understands because our litigation council
that we hired in dallas texas is very

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[kim_o_brien]: familiar with the texas court system and
they’re very familiar with this particular magistrate um

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: this magistrate

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: does not like to

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: you know slow down he’s a very
efficient uh judicial judge and we think that

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[kim_o_brien]: we’ll get a decision out him i’ve
heard the lawyers tell us it probably expected

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[kim_o_brien]: in april is then we were in
appeal paul and that’s goin take so i

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[kim_o_brien]: think we’re in it for easily another
two years

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so can i ask a quick question
like what are the what are the differences

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in the the issues that are being
contested in this lawsuit versus the prior ones

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that you mentioned is is just is
it a full re play or or there

246
00:12:06,591 –> 00:12:09,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: some fundamental differences since since the prior
rounds

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[kim_o_brien]: yes i think so ramsey

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: that was an excellent question we believe
that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: what they did when they were told
what they couldn’t do with the fifth circuit

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[kim_o_brien]: decision they just pretty much rearranged the
deck chairs on the titan and put this

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[kim_o_brien]: preamble in place that essentially

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[paul_tyler]: i

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[kim_o_brien]: re interpreted

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: new interpretation what they call a final
interpretation of the five part test which essentially

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[kim_o_brien]: makes everybody a fiduciary if they have
any expectation of a continued relationship with the

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[kim_o_brien]: client and totally disregarded the fifth circuit
decision which was that in order to have

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[kim_o_brien]: that expectation you have to have you
know a plan and play so contract with

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[kim_o_brien]: your with your client um and they
buy passed all that and said just any

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[kim_o_brien]: expectation a continued relationship so their new
interpretation of the five parts

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: test is the source of our argument

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[paul_tyler]: yeah well it’s

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[kim_o_brien]: then you combine that if i just
add on if you combine that with the

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[kim_o_brien]: removal of the desert love letter which
excluded the insurance transactions that removal

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: all with the new interpretation

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: of the five par test those two
points the problem with this new rule that

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[kim_o_brien]: the dol says is really not you
know we’re really doing everything that the court

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[kim_o_brien]: told us to do in the fifth
circuit decision and they’re really not it’s just

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[kim_o_brien]: a obviscation

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: i was go ahead ramsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i say thanks for that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: the help

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[paul_tyler]: yeah it helps so i guess we’ll
stay tuned you know and good luck with

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[paul_tyler]: your with a suit now i was
at the napa conference

283
00:14:18,730 –> 00:14:18,970
[bruno_caron]: my

284
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[paul_tyler]: for two

285
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[kim_o_brien]: a

286
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[paul_tyler]: days at my i’m seeing bruno first
time i’ve been there bruno i don’t know

287
00:14:23,020 –> 00:14:26,916
[paul_tyler]: if you haf you been to napa
no it was it was

288
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[bruno_caron]: i

289
00:14:26,976 –> 00:14:27,216
[paul_tyler]: great

290
00:14:27,003 –> 00:14:27,144
[bruno_caron]: never

291
00:14:27,256 –> 00:14:30,839
[paul_tyler]: you know we talked a little bit
about bout this before him and certainly regulatory

292
00:14:30,919 –> 00:14:34,422
[paul_tyler]: issues were way up to the fore
front of a lot of questions in the

293
00:14:34,522 –> 00:14:41,572
[paul_tyler]: in the carrier round table i guess
you know this business a lot of this

294
00:14:41,613 –> 00:14:46,381
[paul_tyler]: business just stay is the same and
a few things

295
00:14:46,300 –> 00:14:46,320
[bruno_caron]: m

296
00:14:46,521 –> 00:14:50,447
[paul_tyler]: change i mean if you if you
looked at the landscape the industry landscape today

297
00:14:50,628 –> 00:14:57,676
[paul_tyler]: versus ten years ago you know kim
what oh you know is is it a

298
00:14:57,736 –> 00:15:02,744
[paul_tyler]: cession the same industry or you know
what do you see that’s that may be

299
00:15:02,825 –> 00:15:07,813
[paul_tyler]: different at this point in terms of
product distribution how we’re marketing technology what are

300
00:15:07,833 –> 00:15:13,220
[paul_tyler]: the what are the major changes that
that you think are the most you know

301
00:15:13,380 –> 00:15:16,424
[paul_tyler]: biggest drivers you know for the next
few years

302
00:15:18,890 –> 00:15:26,456
[kim_o_brien]: well on the product side i think
i’ll go three elements run product one distribution

303
00:15:26,857 –> 00:15:31,474
[kim_o_brien]: and third carrier um on the

304
00:15:31,515 –> 00:15:33,885
[paul_tyler]: oh

305
00:15:31,534 –> 00:15:37,023
[kim_o_brien]: product side we’re having a lot more
entry into the market place there there when

306
00:15:37,103 –> 00:15:39,167
[kim_o_brien]: i started i think i counted

307
00:15:39,354 –> 00:15:39,375
[paul_tyler]: m

308
00:15:40,248 –> 00:15:40,549
[kim_o_brien]: forty

309
00:15:40,455 –> 00:15:41,745
[paul_tyler]: yeah

310
00:15:40,649 –> 00:15:43,213
[kim_o_brien]: four uh fixed indexenuities

311
00:15:42,405 –> 00:15:42,547
[paul_tyler]: ye

312
00:15:43,294 –> 00:15:47,280
[kim_o_brien]: and about i don’t know you know
take out the immediate there’s tons

313
00:15:47,064 –> 00:15:47,085
[paul_tyler]: m

314
00:15:47,340 –> 00:15:49,123
[kim_o_brien]: of those but if you just go
with the

315
00:15:49,335 –> 00:15:49,557
[paul_tyler]: oh

316
00:15:49,484 –> 00:15:54,416
[kim_o_brien]: what we used to call traditional annuities
there is about twelve hundred and now that

317
00:15:54,536 –> 00:16:00,113
[kim_o_brien]: fixed index annuity a slot has exponentially
increased and the premium

318
00:15:59,754 –> 00:15:59,775
[paul_tyler]: m

319
00:16:00,314 –> 00:16:03,199
[kim_o_brien]: i mean when again when we hit
two million

320
00:16:02,925 –> 00:16:03,247
[paul_tyler]: oh

321
00:16:03,659 –> 00:16:06,023
[kim_o_brien]: in premium production in nineteen

322
00:16:05,724 –> 00:16:05,745
[paul_tyler]: m

323
00:16:06,083 –> 00:16:07,886
[kim_o_brien]: ninety eight we thought that was huge

324
00:16:07,965 –> 00:16:08,865
[paul_tyler]: yeah

325
00:16:08,387 –> 00:16:10,511
[kim_o_brien]: and now we’re at what a hundred
forty billion

326
00:16:10,326 –> 00:16:10,467
[paul_tyler]: yeah

327
00:16:11,673 –> 00:16:18,164
[kim_o_brien]: expected so i think on the product
side we have a lot more product availability

328
00:16:18,264 –> 00:16:24,935
[kim_o_brien]: which is another key to the independent
adviser and agent because they can offer more

329
00:16:24,995 –> 00:16:29,262
[kim_o_brien]: products and we also have much more
innovation on the products

330
00:16:29,475 –> 00:16:29,495
[paul_tyler]: m

331
00:16:29,683 –> 00:16:31,526
[kim_o_brien]: with these different industries

332
00:16:31,614 –> 00:16:31,635
[paul_tyler]: m

333
00:16:31,626 –> 00:16:34,210
[kim_o_brien]: i think we mentioned before we went
here

334
00:16:34,005 –> 00:16:35,085
[paul_tyler]: oh

335
00:16:35,052 –> 00:16:37,856
[kim_o_brien]: there’s so many more industries out there
that

336
00:16:37,914 –> 00:16:37,935
[paul_tyler]: m

337
00:16:37,957 –> 00:16:43,345
[kim_o_brien]: customers can choose from and the diversification
that they can put into their fixed index

338
00:16:44,187 –> 00:16:49,794
[kim_o_brien]: portfolio is is much more broader and
and deeper into the

339
00:16:50,505 –> 00:16:50,830
[paul_tyler]: oh

340
00:16:50,595 –> 00:16:59,307
[kim_o_brien]: index marketplace on the distribution side what
we’re seeing very much is the consolidation

341
00:16:58,880 –> 00:16:58,981
[bruno_caron]: ah

342
00:16:59,807 –> 00:17:08,602
[kim_o_brien]: of independent personally owned privately owned businesses
and we see three major conglomerates that are

343
00:17:08,942 –> 00:17:10,124
[kim_o_brien]: you know moving

344
00:17:09,915 –> 00:17:10,197
[paul_tyler]: oh

345
00:17:10,204 –> 00:17:16,411
[kim_o_brien]: people into into the consolidation market um
m that’s that’s

346
00:17:16,215 –> 00:17:16,680
[paul_tyler]: oh

347
00:17:16,552 –> 00:17:18,254
[kim_o_brien]: new we still have

348
00:17:19,005 –> 00:17:19,785
[paul_tyler]: my

349
00:17:19,096 –> 00:17:20,518
[kim_o_brien]: we count about a hundred and

350
00:17:20,771 –> 00:17:20,853
[paul_tyler]: ah

351
00:17:20,959 –> 00:17:22,922
[kim_o_brien]: forty individual modes

352
00:17:22,755 –> 00:17:23,059
[paul_tyler]: yes

353
00:17:22,982 –> 00:17:28,592
[kim_o_brien]: that are still family owned family run
businesses um if add life and long term

354
00:17:28,692 –> 00:17:32,458
[kim_o_brien]: care into that we’re up at about
two fifty to sixty so there’s still a

355
00:17:32,518 –> 00:17:38,708
[kim_o_brien]: lot of small businesses that are are
not you know sold and owned by these

356
00:17:39,069 –> 00:17:48,693
[kim_o_brien]: large corporations and they are corporations um
so we think very importantly those are important

357
00:17:48,973 –> 00:17:52,319
[kim_o_brien]: people get to make their choice of
of how they run their

358
00:17:52,305 –> 00:17:52,325
[paul_tyler]: m

359
00:17:52,399 –> 00:17:59,611
[kim_o_brien]: business but the small folks that are
running their smaller and mid sized mos also

360
00:18:00,593 –> 00:18:03,898
[kim_o_brien]: need an avenue and need a voice
and an advocate to

361
00:18:03,894 –> 00:18:03,914
[paul_tyler]: a

362
00:18:03,958 –> 00:18:09,127
[kim_o_brien]: protect their businesses and then the third
element is the carrier element we’re seeing new

363
00:18:09,207 –> 00:18:09,708
[kim_o_brien]: carriers

364
00:18:10,005 –> 00:18:10,287
[paul_tyler]: yeah

365
00:18:10,149 –> 00:18:13,912
[kim_o_brien]: coming in there’s the names are

366
00:18:14,288 –> 00:18:14,528
[paul_tyler]: right

367
00:18:14,914 –> 00:18:19,541
[kim_o_brien]: when we changed our name from the
mutual group to cleric i thought it sounds

368
00:18:19,455 –> 00:18:20,374
[paul_tyler]: ye

369
00:18:19,621 –> 00:18:20,623
[kim_o_brien]: like you know a nasal

370
00:18:20,805 –> 00:18:21,705
[paul_tyler]: yeah

371
00:18:21,685 –> 00:18:21,945
[kim_o_brien]: drug

372
00:18:22,065 –> 00:18:22,995
[paul_tyler]: yeah

373
00:18:22,126 –> 00:18:23,828
[kim_o_brien]: but these names

374
00:18:23,685 –> 00:18:23,705
[paul_tyler]: m

375
00:18:23,869 –> 00:18:25,251
[kim_o_brien]: that are coming in the market

376
00:18:25,395 –> 00:18:27,195
[paul_tyler]: oh

377
00:18:25,712 –> 00:18:29,899
[kim_o_brien]: there’s a new one that just entered
i think about last year and there’s another

378
00:18:30,059 –> 00:18:31,702
[kim_o_brien]: one i talked to a good

379
00:18:31,614 –> 00:18:31,635
[paul_tyler]: m

380
00:18:31,762 –> 00:18:37,991
[kim_o_brien]: friend who’s an i m very long
in the industry and he’s actually been tapped

381
00:18:38,272 –> 00:18:42,957
[kim_o_brien]: to run this new carrier so we’re
seeing new and smaller

382
00:18:42,705 –> 00:18:43,464
[paul_tyler]: yah

383
00:18:43,057 –> 00:18:48,895
[kim_o_brien]: carriers come in so those are the
three things that i see changing on that

384
00:18:48,975 –> 00:18:49,576
[kim_o_brien]: last note if

385
00:18:49,554 –> 00:18:49,575
[paul_tyler]: m

386
00:18:49,636 –> 00:18:55,978
[kim_o_brien]: i may just add an shut me
up if you need to the smaller companies

387
00:18:56,018 –> 00:19:03,205
[kim_o_brien]: that are coming in and they’re really
drive you know the big carriers we used

388
00:19:03,245 –> 00:19:04,768
[kim_o_brien]: to call them the big three as

389
00:19:04,785 –> 00:19:05,610
[paul_tyler]: uh

390
00:19:06,070 –> 00:19:06,450
[kim_o_brien]: that run

391
00:19:06,354 –> 00:19:06,375
[paul_tyler]: h

392
00:19:06,510 –> 00:19:06,991
[kim_o_brien]: the annuity

393
00:19:06,825 –> 00:19:07,695
[paul_tyler]: yeah

394
00:19:07,051 –> 00:19:13,562
[kim_o_brien]: marketplace um they still have a good
market handle on on the production but the

395
00:19:13,642 –> 00:19:14,424
[kim_o_brien]: smaller carriers

396
00:19:14,415 –> 00:19:14,638
[paul_tyler]: oh

397
00:19:14,484 –> 00:19:16,567
[kim_o_brien]: are really making a difference and

398
00:19:16,485 –> 00:19:16,505
[paul_tyler]: m

399
00:19:16,667 –> 00:19:17,569
[kim_o_brien]: some of these smaller

400
00:19:17,625 –> 00:19:17,846
[paul_tyler]: oh

401
00:19:17,629 –> 00:19:19,993
[kim_o_brien]: carriers and their product innovation

402
00:19:19,995 –> 00:19:20,317
[paul_tyler]: oh

403
00:19:20,454 –> 00:19:24,701
[kim_o_brien]: are really new and different when i
talk to our i m o and i

404
00:19:24,822 –> 00:19:30,562
[kim_o_brien]: talked to him all the time they
really like some of the quick to market

405
00:19:30,435 –> 00:19:30,657
[paul_tyler]: oh

406
00:19:31,023 –> 00:19:35,673
[kim_o_brien]: new innovative products that are coming out
of these smaller carriers and some of these

407
00:19:35,713 –> 00:19:36,495
[kim_o_brien]: smaller carriers

408
00:19:36,075 –> 00:19:36,825
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:19:36,575 –> 00:19:42,365
[kim_o_brien]: start out in there there be rated
you know they’re lower rated because their brand

410
00:19:42,445 –> 00:19:47,033
[kim_o_brien]: new um and they don’t have the
history and the reserving and all that stuff

411
00:19:48,115 –> 00:19:49,217
[kim_o_brien]: so that

412
00:19:49,005 –> 00:19:49,246
[paul_tyler]: oh

413
00:19:49,718 –> 00:19:55,428
[kim_o_brien]: that’s an important piece of our puzzle
because i think as they grow and we’ve

414
00:19:55,468 –> 00:20:02,854
[kim_o_brien]: seen this time and time again and
your company nassau is a great example as

415
00:20:02,934 –> 00:20:05,843
[kim_o_brien]: it grows their rating grows and

416
00:20:06,825 –> 00:20:07,845
[paul_tyler]: yeah

417
00:20:07,350 –> 00:20:12,515
[kim_o_brien]: you get more distribution you get more
innovation you get more productivity by blah blah

418
00:20:12,856 –> 00:20:15,739
[kim_o_brien]: and it just keeps going and i
think that’s a very positive thing

419
00:20:18,989 –> 00:20:22,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: well we’re quite fortunate that we have
we have on the call somebody

420
00:20:22,000 –> 00:20:22,690
[bruno_caron]: oh

421
00:20:22,136 –> 00:20:23,119
[ramsey_d_smith]: used to give those scores

422
00:20:22,810 –> 00:20:23,200
[bruno_caron]: yes

423
00:20:23,685 –> 00:20:23,967
[paul_tyler]: oh

424
00:20:26,774 –> 00:20:27,355
[bruno_caron]: it definitely

425
00:20:27,705 –> 00:20:28,575
[paul_tyler]: my

426
00:20:28,437 –> 00:20:30,400
[bruno_caron]: definitely sparked some many conversations

427
00:20:30,217 –> 00:20:30,501
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

428
00:20:30,500 –> 00:20:33,866
[bruno_caron]: in my in the last five years
to say the least

429
00:20:33,915 –> 00:20:34,605
[paul_tyler]: oh

430
00:20:33,926 –> 00:20:34,267
[bruno_caron]: so i

431
00:20:34,327 –> 00:20:34,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

432
00:20:34,387 –> 00:20:45,171
[bruno_caron]: definitely agree and concur with you that
those new carriers are definitely making their way

433
00:20:45,271 –> 00:20:50,436
[bruno_caron]: into into the industry fairly fairly fast
adding up on top of that you have

434
00:20:50,536 –> 00:20:54,440
[bruno_caron]: some of the the re insures that
are there to that that we you know

435
00:20:54,782 –> 00:20:56,088
[bruno_caron]: that are less on the forefront

436
00:20:56,355 –> 00:20:56,556
[paul_tyler]: oh

437
00:20:57,221 –> 00:21:04,136
[bruno_caron]: but the play major piece in terms
of capital allocation and supporting some of those

438
00:21:04,719 –> 00:21:09,288
[bruno_caron]: of those carriers so well agree more
on the on that point

439
00:21:09,525 –> 00:21:09,665
[paul_tyler]: yeah

440
00:21:09,769 –> 00:21:09,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

441
00:21:10,386 –> 00:21:14,333
[paul_tyler]: i’m an optimist for the change i
mean i think the change is very positive

442
00:21:14,413 –> 00:21:20,122
[paul_tyler]: but you know he’s there’s a in
some great discussions on the on the panel

443
00:21:20,864 –> 00:21:24,390
[paul_tyler]: the im discussion with some of the
leading mos

444
00:21:24,580 –> 00:21:25,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

445
00:21:25,531 –> 00:21:29,959
[paul_tyler]: kim just hit on all those factors
like wow they like the new characters coming

446
00:21:30,059 –> 00:21:31,942
[paul_tyler]: in because they were quick to

447
00:21:32,536 –> 00:21:32,556
[kim_o_brien]: i

448
00:21:32,723 –> 00:21:34,386
[paul_tyler]: come up with me product designs

449
00:21:34,143 –> 00:21:34,348
[kim_o_brien]: okay

450
00:21:34,426 –> 00:21:39,555
[paul_tyler]: and they’re building them on new technology
new platforms that where you don’t have to

451
00:21:39,615 –> 00:21:44,964
[paul_tyler]: wait you know ramsey twelve months to
get a new index into a product which

452
00:21:45,004 –> 00:21:47,408
[paul_tyler]: i think a lot of us are
kind of you know locked the cycle that

453
00:21:47,468 –> 00:21:51,054
[paul_tyler]: a lot of us are locked into
you know the downside as well you know

454
00:21:51,114 –> 00:21:55,862
[paul_tyler]: do you know kim do they really
understand the business right because you can also

455
00:21:56,683 –> 00:21:59,448
[paul_tyler]: have price decisions you know made by
people

456
00:21:59,410 –> 00:22:00,370
[bruno_caron]: yeah

457
00:21:59,548 –> 00:22:05,518
[paul_tyler]: who sort of carry the industry into
places we don’t want to go so i

458
00:22:05,538 –> 00:22:09,345
[paul_tyler]: think we’ll hopefully these people are who
are you know leading a lot of these

459
00:22:09,445 –> 00:22:14,176
[paul_tyler]: isutivesare are cautious and bring some some
people who’ve you know got experience in this

460
00:22:14,256 –> 00:22:17,042
[paul_tyler]: industry in put them in the helm

461
00:22:18,710 –> 00:22:20,655
[kim_o_brien]: well that was a good point an
excellent

462
00:22:20,424 –> 00:22:20,445
[paul_tyler]: m

463
00:22:20,735 –> 00:22:22,098
[kim_o_brien]: point and i’ll use it

464
00:22:23,115 –> 00:22:23,397
[paul_tyler]: yeah

465
00:22:23,531 –> 00:22:26,938
[kim_o_brien]: shout out our platform and why we
think

466
00:22:26,779 –> 00:22:26,800
[bruno_caron]: m

467
00:22:26,998 –> 00:22:34,763
[kim_o_brien]: the d l is unnecessary because we
have unbelievable regulatory regime in our state insurance

468
00:22:35,525 –> 00:22:40,253
[kim_o_brien]: and they’re watching reserves they’re watching valuations
they’re watching

469
00:22:39,945 –> 00:22:40,230
[paul_tyler]: oh

470
00:22:40,333 –> 00:22:46,482
[kim_o_brien]: you know and i’m i’m on a
number of different an i c calls related

471
00:22:46,642 –> 00:22:55,204
[kim_o_brien]: to illustration modeling valuation reserving and i’m
not an actuary so i don’t understand it

472
00:22:55,264 –> 00:22:55,384
[kim_o_brien]: all

473
00:22:55,425 –> 00:22:56,505
[paul_tyler]: oh

474
00:22:55,504 –> 00:22:56,806
[kim_o_brien]: but we’re paying attention

475
00:22:57,165 –> 00:22:57,185
[paul_tyler]: m

476
00:22:57,708 –> 00:23:04,199
[kim_o_brien]: to see if it has any impact
on independent distribution but i just really and

477
00:23:04,259 –> 00:23:13,196
[kim_o_brien]: we know this from historical averages this
history that we rarely have a carrier that

478
00:23:14,350 –> 00:23:15,191
[kim_o_brien]: defaults or

479
00:23:15,218 –> 00:23:15,279
[paul_tyler]: hm

480
00:23:15,291 –> 00:23:16,593
[kim_o_brien]: goes into insolvency

481
00:23:16,614 –> 00:23:16,635
[paul_tyler]: m

482
00:23:17,395 –> 00:23:18,817
[kim_o_brien]: in the words of the n i
c

483
00:23:19,215 –> 00:23:19,995
[paul_tyler]: yeah

484
00:23:19,498 –> 00:23:25,488
[kim_o_brien]: and the few that we’ve had that
have gone into insolvency all the contracts have

485
00:23:25,528 –> 00:23:30,056
[kim_o_brien]: been purchased by another insurance company and
those contracts have been honored

486
00:23:30,137 –> 00:23:30,218
[paul_tyler]: ah

487
00:23:30,477 –> 00:23:37,368
[kim_o_brien]: and those consumers have been protected so
our regulatory regime is very robust and very

488
00:23:37,809 –> 00:23:43,434
[kim_o_brien]: strong and so i welcome these new
companies because you know that they’re going to

489
00:23:43,494 –> 00:23:49,039
[kim_o_brien]: get the oversight of of the regulators
in their states and in the states they

490
00:23:49,179 –> 00:23:49,619
[kim_o_brien]: operate

491
00:23:49,786 –> 00:23:50,247
[paul_tyler]: yeah you know

492
00:23:50,390 –> 00:23:51,072
[bruno_caron]: and to your point

493
00:23:51,451 –> 00:23:51,712
[paul_tyler]: go ahead

494
00:23:52,134 –> 00:23:58,580
[bruno_caron]: to your point i think the management
quality and ability to build and execute i

495
00:23:58,640 –> 00:24:03,567
[bruno_caron]: can state for a fact that it
is a consideration in terms of in terms

496
00:24:03,627 –> 00:24:04,529
[bruno_caron]: of ratings in general

497
00:24:05,876 –> 00:24:06,140
[kim_o_brien]: want it

498
00:24:06,265 –> 00:24:08,517
[bruno_caron]: especially for those those new carriers

499
00:24:09,760 –> 00:24:11,262
[kim_o_brien]: sorry i get so excited one

500
00:24:11,320 –> 00:24:11,340
[bruno_caron]: m

501
00:24:11,322 –> 00:24:12,444
[kim_o_brien]: of the things we’re working

502
00:24:12,289 –> 00:24:12,310
[bruno_caron]: m

503
00:24:12,384 –> 00:24:12,405
[paul_tyler]: m

504
00:24:12,564 –> 00:24:13,025
[kim_o_brien]: on at the

505
00:24:13,009 –> 00:24:13,030
[bruno_caron]: m

506
00:24:13,646 –> 00:24:17,413
[kim_o_brien]: fact is we want to change the
guarantee fund law

507
00:24:17,454 –> 00:24:17,475
[paul_tyler]: m

508
00:24:18,074 –> 00:24:23,463
[kim_o_brien]: and right now we think the guarantee
fund now is of the guarantee fund you

509
00:24:23,604 –> 00:24:24,946
[kim_o_brien]: all know that

510
00:24:25,390 –> 00:24:25,636
[bruno_caron]: oh

511
00:24:25,545 –> 00:24:25,791
[paul_tyler]: oh

512
00:24:25,668 –> 00:24:28,413
[kim_o_brien]: work in the industry that you will
have to say this

513
00:24:28,425 –> 00:24:28,690
[paul_tyler]: yes

514
00:24:28,473 –> 00:24:30,457
[kim_o_brien]: is not f d i c insured

515
00:24:31,240 –> 00:24:31,503
[bruno_caron]: oh

516
00:24:31,550 –> 00:24:33,753
[kim_o_brien]: but you can’t say to the customer

517
00:24:33,345 –> 00:24:33,365
[paul_tyler]: m

518
00:24:33,640 –> 00:24:33,660
[bruno_caron]: m

519
00:24:34,114 –> 00:24:35,777
[kim_o_brien]: but it is secondary

520
00:24:35,694 –> 00:24:35,715
[paul_tyler]: m

521
00:24:35,877 –> 00:24:38,201
[kim_o_brien]: insurance i always say annuities

522
00:24:38,055 –> 00:24:38,321
[paul_tyler]: oh

523
00:24:38,341 –> 00:24:44,234
[kim_o_brien]: and life insurance already come wrapped in
an insurance wrapper they don’t need f d

524
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:46,226
[kim_o_brien]: i c like a bank does but

525
00:24:46,485 –> 00:24:47,595
[paul_tyler]: oh

526
00:24:47,360 –> 00:24:52,128
[kim_o_brien]: in addition of course we all know
that there is the secondary insurance of the

527
00:24:52,168 –> 00:24:58,859
[kim_o_brien]: guarantee fund but you can’t talk about
that until the client has committed their money

528
00:24:58,905 –> 00:24:59,207
[paul_tyler]: oh

529
00:24:59,380 –> 00:25:01,884
[kim_o_brien]: received their contract from the insurer

530
00:25:02,475 –> 00:25:02,737
[paul_tyler]: oh

531
00:25:02,865 –> 00:25:07,593
[kim_o_brien]: and i got a call back in
twenty when was that a i g issue

532
00:25:09,136 –> 00:25:15,026
[kim_o_brien]: i don’t know whatever year it was
when everybody was concerned because of the aigs

533
00:25:15,607 –> 00:25:16,628
[kim_o_brien]: financial issues

534
00:25:16,575 –> 00:25:16,595
[paul_tyler]: m

535
00:25:16,889 –> 00:25:17,330
[kim_o_brien]: even though

536
00:25:17,650 –> 00:25:17,934
[bruno_caron]: uh

537
00:25:17,650 –> 00:25:19,874
[kim_o_brien]: america in general the insurance arm

538
00:25:19,815 –> 00:25:20,040
[paul_tyler]: oh

539
00:25:20,134 –> 00:25:25,523
[kim_o_brien]: was not impacted whatsoever i got a
call from woman in florida and she was

540
00:25:25,684 –> 00:25:26,024
[kim_o_brien]: very

541
00:25:25,895 –> 00:25:26,470
[bruno_caron]: kay

542
00:25:26,175 –> 00:25:26,457
[paul_tyler]: oh

543
00:25:26,385 –> 00:25:31,353
[kim_o_brien]: worried and very concerned because she had
you know five hundred thousand in an a

544
00:25:31,613 –> 00:25:37,503
[kim_o_brien]: g contract american general contract and she
was worried that was in trouble and

545
00:25:37,695 –> 00:25:37,997
[paul_tyler]: oh

546
00:25:37,944 –> 00:25:44,735
[kim_o_brien]: again if she had known early in
her decision making process that florida at the

547
00:25:44,775 –> 00:25:45,136
[kim_o_brien]: time

548
00:25:45,015 –> 00:25:46,065
[paul_tyler]: oh

549
00:25:45,216 –> 00:25:53,511
[kim_o_brien]: two under fifty blah blah she could
have diversified that choice between annuity contracts between

550
00:25:53,571 –> 00:25:58,941
[kim_o_brien]: annuity carriers whatever she wanted to do
if she had been aware ahead of time

551
00:25:59,355 –> 00:26:00,045
[paul_tyler]: yeah

552
00:25:59,442 –> 00:26:03,029
[kim_o_brien]: so what we’re working on at fact
is earlier disclosure

553
00:26:02,955 –> 00:26:03,197
[paul_tyler]: oh

554
00:26:04,060 –> 00:26:09,749
[kim_o_brien]: the whole reason we have the guarantee
fund disclosure rule in place is because

555
00:26:09,705 –> 00:26:10,905
[paul_tyler]: oh

556
00:26:11,011 –> 00:26:16,600
[kim_o_brien]: carriers were concerned that high rated carriers
were concerned that low rated care yours would

557
00:26:16,641 –> 00:26:16,821
[kim_o_brien]: just

558
00:26:17,085 –> 00:26:17,307
[paul_tyler]: oh

559
00:26:17,101 –> 00:26:21,689
[kim_o_brien]: you know say don’t worry about it
or be rated just by you’re protected by

560
00:26:21,749 –> 00:26:27,879
[kim_o_brien]: the guarantee fund so they are worried
about you know the slugging off the rating

561
00:26:28,200 –> 00:26:33,609
[kim_o_brien]: and and just promising the customer a
guarantee fund back up but we can do

562
00:26:33,989 –> 00:26:34,050
[kim_o_brien]: we

563
00:26:34,005 –> 00:26:34,246
[paul_tyler]: oh

564
00:26:34,110 –> 00:26:34,951
[kim_o_brien]: can do a better job

565
00:26:35,000 –> 00:26:35,241
[bruno_caron]: okay

566
00:26:35,051 –> 00:26:37,856
[kim_o_brien]: in disclosure and we can make sure
they understand

567
00:26:37,365 –> 00:26:37,647
[paul_tyler]: oh

568
00:26:38,357 –> 00:26:41,861
[kim_o_brien]: the rating aspect of it as well
as let them know

569
00:26:41,814 –> 00:26:41,835
[paul_tyler]: m

570
00:26:41,942 –> 00:26:46,807
[kim_o_brien]: ahead of time so they can make
important choices that will help them down the

571
00:26:46,867 –> 00:26:47,808
[kim_o_brien]: road should there be

572
00:26:47,934 –> 00:26:47,955
[paul_tyler]: m

573
00:26:48,128 –> 00:26:48,949
[kim_o_brien]: an insolvency

574
00:26:49,515 –> 00:26:53,201
[paul_tyler]: yeah i agree with you and we
had a great discussion with you know one

575
00:26:53,221 –> 00:26:56,427
[paul_tyler]: of your friends harry stout on that
topic and

576
00:26:57,480 –> 00:26:58,285
[kim_o_brien]: as harry out there

577
00:26:58,630 –> 00:27:01,916
[paul_tyler]: yeah he was he was now he
was not there he was on our show

578
00:27:02,557 –> 00:27:02,777
[paul_tyler]: maybe

579
00:27:03,370 –> 00:27:03,633
[kim_o_brien]: oh

580
00:27:03,538 –> 00:27:07,305
[paul_tyler]: two months ago now miss terry he
would have been a great addition to the

581
00:27:07,545 –> 00:27:09,348
[paul_tyler]: to the conference yeah

582
00:27:09,322 –> 00:27:09,342
[kim_o_brien]: i

583
00:27:09,388 –> 00:27:09,528
[paul_tyler]: well

584
00:27:09,564 –> 00:27:09,866
[kim_o_brien]: profess

585
00:27:09,849 –> 00:27:12,313
[paul_tyler]: if we were just sort o talk
about products for a minute because you know

586
00:27:12,634 –> 00:27:17,304
[paul_tyler]: we talked about that the distribution the
there’s a lot of discussion around induces ramsey

587
00:27:17,384 –> 00:27:19,990
[paul_tyler]: this will be a real

588
00:27:19,897 –> 00:27:20,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

589
00:27:20,090 –> 00:27:26,081
[paul_tyler]: interesting you know point of discussion for
you a lot of a lot of debate

590
00:27:26,182 –> 00:27:33,113
[paul_tyler]: everybody of course had very different opinions
on okay industries or industry index strategies i

591
00:27:33,153 –> 00:27:38,054
[paul_tyler]: think there as something like hunder fifty
industies inside cares right now now is that

592
00:27:38,094 –> 00:27:39,960
[paul_tyler]: too much too little

593
00:27:39,928 –> 00:27:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m surprised there aren’t more

594
00:27:41,986 –> 00:27:42,207
[paul_tyler]: well

595
00:27:42,340 –> 00:27:42,360
[bruno_caron]: m

596
00:27:43,108 –> 00:27:43,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s a lot

597
00:27:43,550 –> 00:27:43,851
[paul_tyler]: that was

598
00:27:43,770 –> 00:27:44,312
[ramsey_d_smith]: but you know

599
00:27:44,272 –> 00:27:44,433
[paul_tyler]: that

600
00:27:44,773 –> 00:27:45,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would have guessed

601
00:27:45,345 –> 00:27:45,365
[paul_tyler]: m

602
00:27:45,395 –> 00:27:48,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would have actually guessed more it’s
been it’s been a booming industry for a

603
00:27:48,544 –> 00:27:48,765
[ramsey_d_smith]: while

604
00:27:49,836 –> 00:27:53,022
[paul_tyler]: yeah and and so you know came
to your point there were a lot of

605
00:27:53,082 –> 00:27:53,442
[paul_tyler]: arguments

606
00:27:53,086 –> 00:27:53,107
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

607
00:27:53,503 –> 00:27:58,471
[paul_tyler]: to say well there’s too many it’s
too confusing then people were saying look the

608
00:27:58,511 –> 00:28:02,658
[paul_tyler]: best ones haven’t been invented yet you
know we’re actually just kind of getting going

609
00:28:02,998 –> 00:28:05,963
[paul_tyler]: and you know potentially offering even

610
00:28:06,010 –> 00:28:06,970
[bruno_caron]: oh

611
00:28:06,204 –> 00:28:11,693
[paul_tyler]: sort of better diversity of protections for
you know the retirement savings and nest egs

612
00:28:11,793 –> 00:28:15,357
[paul_tyler]: mean where where do you follow you
saw the beginning of the industry

613
00:28:16,339 –> 00:28:16,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

614
00:28:16,759 –> 00:28:20,103
[paul_tyler]: and you know i think right now
it’s yeah

615
00:28:23,790 –> 00:28:29,019
[kim_o_brien]: my thoughts are always choice i think
choice is a great thing and and one

616
00:28:29,606 –> 00:28:29,707
[paul_tyler]: ah

617
00:28:29,860 –> 00:28:30,321
[kim_o_brien]: back in

618
00:28:30,713 –> 00:28:30,874
[paul_tyler]: yes

619
00:28:31,022 –> 00:28:36,291
[kim_o_brien]: napa days i was called by an
agent to tell me that should shut down

620
00:28:36,672 –> 00:28:39,476
[kim_o_brien]: this product product a product

621
00:28:39,932 –> 00:28:40,095
[paul_tyler]: yeah

622
00:28:39,977 –> 00:28:43,804
[kim_o_brien]: was bad product a allowed this it
shouldn’t it shouldn’t be

623
00:28:43,935 –> 00:28:44,198
[paul_tyler]: oh

624
00:28:44,024 –> 00:28:48,554
[kim_o_brien]: you shouldn’t be promoting this product you
should shed it now

625
00:28:48,444 –> 00:28:48,465
[paul_tyler]: m

626
00:28:48,675 –> 00:28:56,235
[kim_o_brien]: this product happened to go through the
normal valuation all the aspects and the filing

627
00:28:56,295 –> 00:29:01,063
[kim_o_brien]: and the requirements from the state and
they had to meet all of the filing

628
00:29:01,183 –> 00:29:07,714
[kim_o_brien]: requirements to become a quote product and
once that happens and you know the state

629
00:29:07,665 –> 00:29:07,869
[paul_tyler]: oh

630
00:29:07,774 –> 00:29:16,048
[kim_o_brien]: is very every state has a very
difficult product development and product compliance and product

631
00:29:16,168 –> 00:29:21,838
[kim_o_brien]: submission process that’s half of the time
that it takes to develop a product is

632
00:29:21,918 –> 00:29:27,046
[kim_o_brien]: getting it approved by the state um
and and it’s a very very robust and

633
00:29:27,086 –> 00:29:33,433
[kim_o_brien]: a very thorough process so i felt
strongly that now as long as it was

634
00:29:33,473 –> 00:29:38,904
[kim_o_brien]: approved by the state and went through
this very very heavy betting um that it

635
00:29:38,984 –> 00:29:45,204
[kim_o_brien]: was a product and at napa when
i was there it was the national association

636
00:29:45,365 –> 00:29:52,375
[kim_o_brien]: for fixed annuity so we were for
it go to your question directly all these

637
00:29:52,455 –> 00:29:59,306
[kim_o_brien]: induscties and what not i think that’s
great it’s it’s it’s an innovation it’s helpful

638
00:30:00,669 –> 00:30:04,916
[kim_o_brien]: agents have to now step up i
think a little harder

639
00:30:04,725 –> 00:30:04,986
[paul_tyler]: oh

640
00:30:05,056 –> 00:30:09,223
[kim_o_brien]: because it’s more more information more education

641
00:30:09,015 –> 00:30:09,316
[paul_tyler]: oh

642
00:30:09,383 –> 00:30:16,241
[kim_o_brien]: more awareness more understanding of these industies
and they’ve been used to but i think

643
00:30:16,281 –> 00:30:21,008
[kim_o_brien]: the carriers do an excellent job of
doing that so

644
00:30:21,045 –> 00:30:21,286
[paul_tyler]: oh

645
00:30:21,991 –> 00:30:22,354
[kim_o_brien]: choice

646
00:30:22,875 –> 00:30:22,895
[paul_tyler]: m

647
00:30:22,939 –> 00:30:24,890
[kim_o_brien]: i’m for it m

648
00:30:25,636 –> 00:30:25,957
[paul_tyler]: bruno

649
00:30:26,430 –> 00:30:26,855
[bruno_caron]: wonderful

650
00:30:26,778 –> 00:30:27,178
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

651
00:30:27,460 –> 00:30:28,180
[bruno_caron]: yeah

652
00:30:29,442 –> 00:30:30,043
[paul_tyler]: what’s your take

653
00:30:29,832 –> 00:30:29,852
[bruno_caron]: i

654
00:30:30,103 –> 00:30:31,667
[paul_tyler]: on this oh

655
00:30:31,670 –> 00:30:32,894
[bruno_caron]: well no you know

656
00:30:33,915 –> 00:30:34,058
[paul_tyler]: ye

657
00:30:36,250 –> 00:30:38,755
[bruno_caron]: like every every other business more choice

658
00:30:39,204 –> 00:30:39,225
[paul_tyler]: m

659
00:30:39,256 –> 00:30:39,737
[bruno_caron]: is usually

660
00:30:40,605 –> 00:30:40,807
[paul_tyler]: oh

661
00:30:40,859 –> 00:30:41,641
[bruno_caron]: usually a good thing

662
00:30:41,565 –> 00:30:41,849
[paul_tyler]: oh

663
00:30:41,921 –> 00:30:43,585
[bruno_caron]: so i think that’s

664
00:30:44,385 –> 00:30:44,709
[paul_tyler]: oh

665
00:30:44,627 –> 00:30:49,794
[bruno_caron]: i would agree with that but i
wanted to come to a to a point

666
00:30:49,854 –> 00:30:56,292
[bruno_caron]: where where kim you mentioned that your
your un speech at you know

667
00:30:56,535 –> 00:30:57,285
[paul_tyler]: oh

668
00:30:57,096 –> 00:31:03,520
[bruno_caron]: investments and annuities it’s none in either
or and you know there is this you

669
00:31:03,560 –> 00:31:08,302
[bruno_caron]: know this popular saying out there where
people in our world

670
00:31:08,595 –> 00:31:08,859
[paul_tyler]: oh

671
00:31:08,622 –> 00:31:10,303
[bruno_caron]: you know completely understand

672
00:31:09,945 –> 00:31:09,965
[paul_tyler]: m

673
00:31:10,424 –> 00:31:12,045
[bruno_caron]: and agree with that but there seems

674
00:31:12,045 –> 00:31:12,307
[paul_tyler]: oh

675
00:31:12,125 –> 00:31:15,769
[bruno_caron]: to be some you know some some
train some philosophy

676
00:31:16,005 –> 00:31:17,265
[paul_tyler]: my

677
00:31:16,730 –> 00:31:17,212
[bruno_caron]: you know within

678
00:31:17,355 –> 00:31:17,581
[paul_tyler]: oh

679
00:31:17,432 –> 00:31:19,137
[bruno_caron]: the investment community that you know

680
00:31:19,275 –> 00:31:20,265
[paul_tyler]: yeah

681
00:31:19,397 –> 00:31:21,663
[bruno_caron]: investments are sufficient

682
00:31:21,474 –> 00:31:21,495
[paul_tyler]: m

683
00:31:21,723 –> 00:31:21,984
[bruno_caron]: enough

684
00:31:22,335 –> 00:31:22,617
[paul_tyler]: yeah

685
00:31:22,425 –> 00:31:30,244
[bruno_caron]: and annuities are not not necessary and
of course i used the word annuity in

686
00:31:30,425 –> 00:31:30,645
[bruno_caron]: very

687
00:31:30,555 –> 00:31:30,938
[paul_tyler]: oh

688
00:31:31,006 –> 00:31:32,308
[bruno_caron]: broad term we all

689
00:31:32,235 –> 00:31:33,105
[paul_tyler]: yeah

690
00:31:32,328 –> 00:31:34,351
[bruno_caron]: know they come in multiple flavors

691
00:31:34,230 –> 00:31:34,491
[kim_o_brien]: oh

692
00:31:35,874 –> 00:31:38,278
[bruno_caron]: but paul mentioned the young in the
end

693
00:31:38,265 –> 00:31:38,689
[paul_tyler]: oh

694
00:31:38,458 –> 00:31:43,190
[bruno_caron]: earlier how do you how do you
marry that how how do you get

695
00:31:43,245 –> 00:31:43,486
[paul_tyler]: oh

696
00:31:43,571 –> 00:31:43,912
[bruno_caron]: into

697
00:31:45,255 –> 00:31:46,455
[paul_tyler]: oh

698
00:31:45,657 –> 00:31:48,771
[bruno_caron]: to people from all the spectrum

699
00:31:48,856 –> 00:31:49,018
[paul_tyler]: yes

700
00:31:48,951 –> 00:31:53,359
[bruno_caron]: of financial services and agree that there’s
there’s some sort of balance and some sort

701
00:31:53,419 –> 00:31:59,369
[bruno_caron]: of equilibrium between between those those offerings
and those financial vehicles

702
00:32:00,045 –> 00:32:00,307
[paul_tyler]: oh

703
00:32:01,312 –> 00:32:05,560
[kim_o_brien]: well that was a very good question
and anna very

704
00:32:05,625 –> 00:32:05,645
[paul_tyler]: m

705
00:32:05,660 –> 00:32:15,102
[kim_o_brien]: broad question bruno but i’ve always felt
and in fact feel strongly that so the

706
00:32:15,202 –> 00:32:16,305
[kim_o_brien]: differentiation

707
00:32:15,645 –> 00:32:15,665
[paul_tyler]: m

708
00:32:16,445 –> 00:32:16,886
[kim_o_brien]: between

709
00:32:16,485 –> 00:32:16,789
[paul_tyler]: oh

710
00:32:16,966 –> 00:32:18,029
[kim_o_brien]: these two products

711
00:32:18,375 –> 00:32:19,515
[paul_tyler]: oh

712
00:32:18,970 –> 00:32:19,110
[kim_o_brien]: and

713
00:32:19,935 –> 00:32:20,895
[paul_tyler]: yeah

714
00:32:19,971 –> 00:32:26,672
[kim_o_brien]: regulators call annuities investments all the time
and it drives me crazy because annuities aren’t

715
00:32:26,792 –> 00:32:33,544
[kim_o_brien]: investments they are insurance first and foremost
yes we have wonderful products that can provide

716
00:32:33,604 –> 00:32:40,955
[kim_o_brien]: additional gain and additional money on top
the guarantees that’s great but at the end

717
00:32:41,015 –> 00:32:47,740
[kim_o_brien]: of the day it’s for the customer
the portion of their money whether it’s and

718
00:32:47,780 –> 00:32:51,964
[kim_o_brien]: we know we have many all of
our carriers that we work with have limitations

719
00:32:52,044 –> 00:32:56,949
[kim_o_brien]: on how much you can put in
to your annuity but however much they want

720
00:32:57,109 –> 00:33:02,477
[kim_o_brien]: to up to the carrier requirements that
they want protected

721
00:33:02,025 –> 00:33:02,045
[paul_tyler]: m

722
00:33:02,837 –> 00:33:07,365
[kim_o_brien]: or they want a guaranteed income stream
from a writer or from the contract

723
00:33:06,975 –> 00:33:07,095
[paul_tyler]: oh

724
00:33:07,485 –> 00:33:14,767
[kim_o_brien]: itself even without a writer they should
be allowed to make that decision and they

725
00:33:15,740 –> 00:33:16,421
[kim_o_brien]: your question

726
00:33:16,515 –> 00:33:16,535
[paul_tyler]: m

727
00:33:16,542 –> 00:33:21,454
[kim_o_brien]: goes deeper and i think it’s a
very good one in that it’s how do

728
00:33:21,534 –> 00:33:21,915
[kim_o_brien]: we get

729
00:33:22,125 –> 00:33:23,064
[paul_tyler]: yeah

730
00:33:22,336 –> 00:33:31,414
[kim_o_brien]: advisors recognize that value the customer for
the customer how do we get the investment

731
00:33:31,614 –> 00:33:40,088
[kim_o_brien]: biased if you will to recognize that
um and and that’s that’s a harder nut

732
00:33:40,369 –> 00:33:50,065
[kim_o_brien]: i think because they do have a
bias towards the investment accumulation but today in

733
00:33:50,145 –> 00:33:58,151
[kim_o_brien]: today’s world and why annuity sales flying
right now is because of the security of

734
00:33:58,211 –> 00:33:59,032
[kim_o_brien]: the marketplace

735
00:33:58,965 –> 00:33:59,227
[paul_tyler]: oh

736
00:33:59,553 –> 00:34:04,822
[kim_o_brien]: and the insecurity of the political climate
right now and so sales have just been

737
00:34:04,882 –> 00:34:05,603
[kim_o_brien]: booming because

738
00:34:05,505 –> 00:34:06,495
[paul_tyler]: yes

739
00:34:05,764 –> 00:34:08,929
[kim_o_brien]: obviously consumers are choosing protection

740
00:34:08,805 –> 00:34:09,027
[paul_tyler]: oh

741
00:34:09,410 –> 00:34:10,016
[kim_o_brien]: guarantees

742
00:34:10,845 –> 00:34:16,735
[paul_tyler]: yeah well there was a great discussion
on the panel and these were not cares

743
00:34:16,775 –> 00:34:20,261
[paul_tyler]: these are im o talking about where
should product

744
00:34:20,031 –> 00:34:20,640
[kim_o_brien]: don’t do that

745
00:34:20,481 –> 00:34:28,154
[paul_tyler]: designs head and you know kim there
was one voice very strongly saying that these

746
00:34:28,194 –> 00:34:33,984
[paul_tyler]: are contracts they’re not investments you know
there’s no reason why we have this regulatory

747
00:34:34,064 –> 00:34:39,393
[paul_tyler]: structure and the zero is our hero
you know in this business and you know

748
00:34:39,433 –> 00:34:45,363
[paul_tyler]: then we had another voice on the
on the discussion saying you know we should

749
00:34:45,683 –> 00:34:52,595
[paul_tyler]: actually you know takes take stock what’s
happening to rilla market and maybe we should

750
00:34:52,895 –> 00:34:56,642
[paul_tyler]: have protections up to a certain point
and that’s not it’s not a slippery slope

751
00:34:56,722 –> 00:35:02,031
[paul_tyler]: leading us into investments i mean do
you have any strong opinion about where the

752
00:35:02,091 –> 00:35:09,904
[paul_tyler]: industry should head should we say where
we’re about protecting principle full stop or start

753
00:35:09,964 –> 00:35:14,073
[paul_tyler]: to compete in the independent space a
little more with where the ryle designs are

754
00:35:14,093 –> 00:35:17,595
[paul_tyler]: headed yeah

755
00:35:18,311 –> 00:35:24,406
[kim_o_brien]: i’m not sure i understood that question
paul exactly but let me take a stab

756
00:35:24,446 –> 00:35:29,736
[kim_o_brien]: and if i miss the mark you
can correct me back but i do think

757
00:35:29,565 –> 00:35:29,912
[paul_tyler]: oh

758
00:35:30,137 –> 00:35:37,708
[kim_o_brien]: that we don’t many a many agents
don’t do as good of a job of

759
00:35:37,908 –> 00:35:44,856
[kim_o_brien]: talking about the protections and the guarantees
they really try to sell the gain

760
00:35:45,228 –> 00:35:45,795
[paul_tyler]: hm

761
00:35:45,660 –> 00:35:47,002
[kim_o_brien]: now this product could do

762
00:35:46,929 –> 00:35:47,094
[paul_tyler]: yes

763
00:35:47,783 –> 00:35:53,793
[kim_o_brien]: you know five percent six percent well
our target when we built them back in

764
00:35:53,893 –> 00:35:58,142
[kim_o_brien]: nineteen ninety five was we wanted to
and the reason the whole end ex market

765
00:35:58,222 –> 00:36:00,050
[kim_o_brien]: became into being was because we

766
00:36:00,105 –> 00:36:00,125
[paul_tyler]: m

767
00:36:00,150 –> 00:36:07,005
[kim_o_brien]: wanted to get a little more out
of the fixed you know portfolio of the

768
00:36:07,065 –> 00:36:11,893
[kim_o_brien]: carrier we wanted to squeeze a little
bit more interest out of that fix the

769
00:36:12,013 –> 00:36:18,424
[kim_o_brien]: carrier portfolio and so that’s how the
index product was born and we always built

770
00:36:18,484 –> 00:36:20,568
[kim_o_brien]: them so that they could probably provide

771
00:36:20,544 –> 00:36:20,565
[paul_tyler]: m

772
00:36:20,628 –> 00:36:25,596
[kim_o_brien]: and they have historically provided one and
a half to two percent more than a

773
00:36:25,676 –> 00:36:26,397
[kim_o_brien]: straight fixed

774
00:36:26,385 –> 00:36:27,105
[paul_tyler]: oh

775
00:36:26,498 –> 00:36:31,876
[kim_o_brien]: if you will traditional fixed or whatever
you want to call it um and even

776
00:36:31,936 –> 00:36:38,066
[kim_o_brien]: the magas um and and i think
they’re still hitting that mark so i can’t

777
00:36:38,167 –> 00:36:41,793
[kim_o_brien]: i don’t think we can oversell the
gain part um and

778
00:36:41,775 –> 00:36:41,795
[paul_tyler]: m

779
00:36:41,833 –> 00:36:43,015
[kim_o_brien]: i think sometimes we

780
00:36:43,005 –> 00:36:43,188
[paul_tyler]: oh

781
00:36:43,115 –> 00:36:46,060
[kim_o_brien]: do as an industry um and we

782
00:36:46,035 –> 00:36:46,357
[paul_tyler]: oh

783
00:36:46,180 –> 00:36:49,726
[kim_o_brien]: really do need to get back to
the elements of you know all

784
00:36:49,575 –> 00:36:50,535
[paul_tyler]: yeah

785
00:36:49,786 –> 00:36:55,380
[kim_o_brien]: of the reasons people buy insurance for
the protection of their home their car you

786
00:36:55,420 –> 00:37:01,552
[kim_o_brien]: know this is to protect their retirement
their income stream in retirement or if they

787
00:37:01,612 –> 00:37:05,796
[kim_o_brien]: have enough income dream from that investment
then this is to protect that

788
00:37:05,715 –> 00:37:06,615
[paul_tyler]: oh

789
00:37:05,936 –> 00:37:13,404
[kim_o_brien]: legacy gift that they’re leaving behind so
protection we think is the whole element of

790
00:37:13,684 –> 00:37:18,289
[kim_o_brien]: our market place and really should be
at the forefront of the sale

791
00:37:19,706 –> 00:37:20,507
[paul_tyler]: yeah well this is

792
00:37:20,774 –> 00:37:20,794
[kim_o_brien]: i

793
00:37:21,329 –> 00:37:21,489
[paul_tyler]: yeah

794
00:37:21,640 –> 00:37:21,882
[kim_o_brien]: answer

795
00:37:21,689 –> 00:37:26,497
[paul_tyler]: yeah and i think the discussion was
well you know should we say you’re not

796
00:37:26,537 –> 00:37:29,302
[paul_tyler]: going to lose any of your principle
or is it okay to say we’ll guarantee

797
00:37:29,382 –> 00:37:32,447
[paul_tyler]: that you’re not going to lose ninety
percent of you principle right so i mean

798
00:37:32,507 –> 00:37:38,157
[paul_tyler]: it’s splitting hairs but i’m with you
cam i like the insurance guarantees rams you

799
00:37:38,197 –> 00:37:39,299
[paul_tyler]: were we’re getting close to

800
00:37:39,937 –> 00:37:40,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:37:40,020 –> 00:37:41,983
[paul_tyler]: ahead of time actually i’ll start with
you bruno

802
00:37:41,820 –> 00:37:41,964
[kim_o_brien]: yes

803
00:37:42,083 –> 00:37:46,096
[paul_tyler]: any last questions or thoughts for kim
oh

804
00:37:46,560 –> 00:37:47,364
[bruno_caron]: no i think we

805
00:37:48,045 –> 00:37:48,226
[paul_tyler]: yah

806
00:37:48,466 –> 00:37:48,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

807
00:37:48,492 –> 00:37:48,512
[kim_o_brien]: a

808
00:37:49,830 –> 00:37:50,311
[bruno_caron]: brought it all

809
00:37:50,204 –> 00:37:50,265
[paul_tyler]: ah

810
00:37:50,772 –> 00:37:51,293
[bruno_caron]: all home with

811
00:37:51,705 –> 00:37:52,251
[paul_tyler]: oh

812
00:37:52,736 –> 00:37:56,905
[bruno_caron]: your last question so that that makes
makes perfect sense but thank you i think

813
00:37:56,925 –> 00:38:01,756
[bruno_caron]: that was that was that was great
keep keep the work up i think that’s

814
00:38:02,097 –> 00:38:05,887
[bruno_caron]: you’re doing great great service for all
of us

815
00:38:07,140 –> 00:38:07,482
[kim_o_brien]: bet ya

816
00:38:07,665 –> 00:38:07,968
[paul_tyler]: ramsey

817
00:38:08,197 –> 00:38:08,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

818
00:38:08,566 –> 00:38:10,434
[kim_o_brien]: i get to talk to the regulators
that’s

819
00:38:10,480 –> 00:38:10,500
[bruno_caron]: m

820
00:38:10,514 –> 00:38:10,936
[kim_o_brien]: my fun

821
00:38:11,317 –> 00:38:11,577
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

822
00:38:11,985 –> 00:38:12,247
[paul_tyler]: oh

823
00:38:12,218 –> 00:38:12,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: so well

824
00:38:13,069 –> 00:38:13,812
[bruno_caron]: m oh

825
00:38:13,379 –> 00:38:15,082
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’ll be we’ll be watching with

826
00:38:15,139 –> 00:38:15,160
[bruno_caron]: h

827
00:38:15,142 –> 00:38:15,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: great

828
00:38:15,345 –> 00:38:15,365
[paul_tyler]: m

829
00:38:15,400 –> 00:38:15,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

830
00:38:15,422 –> 00:38:17,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: interest as you as you proceed with
your

831
00:38:17,895 –> 00:38:18,099
[paul_tyler]: oh

832
00:38:18,887 –> 00:38:20,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: various suits and negotiations

833
00:38:21,165 –> 00:38:22,485
[paul_tyler]: yeah

834
00:38:21,200 –> 00:38:21,384
[bruno_caron]: okay

835
00:38:21,351 –> 00:38:24,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: with you know i mean it’s true
like there’s

836
00:38:24,216 –> 00:38:24,398
[paul_tyler]: yeah

837
00:38:24,376 –> 00:38:27,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s all these different bureaucracies that want
to regulate the

838
00:38:27,435 –> 00:38:27,455
[paul_tyler]: m

839
00:38:27,481 –> 00:38:29,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: industry and it’s already got fifty states
to deal

840
00:38:29,574 –> 00:38:29,595
[paul_tyler]: m

841
00:38:29,665 –> 00:38:32,082
[ramsey_d_smith]: with right minute ah it’s a

842
00:38:32,475 –> 00:38:32,838
[paul_tyler]: oh

843
00:38:33,331 –> 00:38:33,959
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s a big burden

844
00:38:34,970 –> 00:38:38,716
[kim_o_brien]: it’s a big burden and what we’re
working on just so i can make sure

845
00:38:38,756 –> 00:38:42,242
[kim_o_brien]: that we’re not just on the federal
we’re trying to make sure that the n

846
00:38:42,522 –> 00:38:45,607
[kim_o_brien]: c model that we worked so hard
on to make sure there

847
00:38:45,615 –> 00:38:45,635
[paul_tyler]: m

848
00:38:45,627 –> 00:38:47,270
[kim_o_brien]: were elements that we key

849
00:38:47,475 –> 00:38:47,756
[paul_tyler]: oh

850
00:38:47,591 –> 00:38:54,262
[kim_o_brien]: and core to independent distributors and carriers
at support independent distribution we want to make

851
00:38:54,302 –> 00:38:54,442
[kim_o_brien]: sure

852
00:38:54,405 –> 00:38:54,506
[paul_tyler]: yah

853
00:38:54,522 –> 00:38:57,687
[kim_o_brien]: those states adopt them as we wrote

854
00:38:57,550 –> 00:38:58,300
[bruno_caron]: yeah

855
00:38:57,747 –> 00:39:02,997
[kim_o_brien]: them you know an i see so
we deal state by state by tate and

856
00:39:03,057 –> 00:39:07,605
[kim_o_brien]: it’s important and real quick paul on
the one hundred per cent of your money

857
00:39:07,685 –> 00:39:08,887
[kim_o_brien]: is protected versus

858
00:39:08,857 –> 00:39:08,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

859
00:39:08,967 –> 00:39:14,356
[kim_o_brien]: the ninety the only way you lose
money if you leave early

860
00:39:14,517 –> 00:39:14,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

861
00:39:15,780 –> 00:39:16,563
[kim_o_brien]: and the surrender

862
00:39:16,155 –> 00:39:16,457
[paul_tyler]: oh

863
00:39:16,643 –> 00:39:23,074
[kim_o_brien]: period i’ve always argued surrender chart is
the fairest way to the customer

864
00:39:22,935 –> 00:39:23,805
[paul_tyler]: oh

865
00:39:23,554 –> 00:39:24,155
[kim_o_brien]: to charge

866
00:39:24,375 –> 00:39:24,700
[paul_tyler]: oh

867
00:39:24,496 –> 00:39:30,967
[kim_o_brien]: for leaving early because other ways you
could charge through fees through every product this

868
00:39:31,207 –> 00:39:34,145
[kim_o_brien]: only hits the customer chooses to leave
early

869
00:39:34,715 –> 00:39:35,257
[paul_tyler]: i like that

870
00:39:35,210 –> 00:39:36,723
[kim_o_brien]: every other way in which you

871
00:39:36,802 –> 00:39:36,942
[paul_tyler]: yeah

872
00:39:38,200 –> 00:39:39,481
[kim_o_brien]: you build a product

873
00:39:39,075 –> 00:39:40,014
[paul_tyler]: yeh

874
00:39:40,402 –> 00:39:41,783
[kim_o_brien]: every other actuarial way

875
00:39:41,865 –> 00:39:42,129
[paul_tyler]: yeah

876
00:39:41,924 –> 00:39:43,445
[kim_o_brien]: to put money in to protect

877
00:39:43,425 –> 00:39:43,445
[paul_tyler]: m

878
00:39:43,525 –> 00:39:50,701
[kim_o_brien]: the carrier from leaving early hits everybody
surrender charges only hits the person that leaves

879
00:39:50,862 –> 00:39:52,408
[kim_o_brien]: and chooses to leave early

880
00:39:53,305 –> 00:39:56,791
[paul_tyler]: i like that well thanks so much
for joining we obviously gonna have to have

881
00:39:56,811 –> 00:39:59,155
[paul_tyler]: you back especially as some of

882
00:39:59,153 –> 00:39:59,314
[kim_o_brien]: love

883
00:39:59,175 –> 00:39:59,315
[paul_tyler]: these

884
00:39:59,374 –> 00:39:59,434
[kim_o_brien]: it

885
00:39:59,596 –> 00:40:06,207
[paul_tyler]: yeah as events progress what’s the best
way for people find out more about your

886
00:40:06,227 –> 00:40:10,314
[paul_tyler]: organization follow it may be supported if
you’re an independent agent

887
00:40:12,270 –> 00:40:16,395
[kim_o_brien]: we’re at fact choice so it’s w
w w dot f a c

888
00:40:16,545 –> 00:40:17,295
[paul_tyler]: oh

889
00:40:17,156 –> 00:40:22,326
[kim_o_brien]: choice spelled out dot com i’m kim
fact choice dot com

890
00:40:22,355 –> 00:40:26,141
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right hey bruno thanks ramsey
thanks and

891
00:40:26,190 –> 00:40:26,513
[bruno_caron]: thank you

892
00:40:26,810 –> 00:40:27,580
[kim_o_brien]: nice to see you

893
00:40:27,503 –> 00:40:33,393
[paul_tyler]: yeah i got some great feedback in
request for future guests at kim out at

894
00:40:33,433 –> 00:40:36,999
[paul_tyler]: the conference send it to us you
know the people you’d like to get on

895
00:40:37,560 –> 00:40:40,785
[paul_tyler]: send us notes and well we’ll make
it happen all right hey thanks so much

896
00:40:40,846 –> 00:40:41,066
[paul_tyler]: on join

897
00:40:40,980 –> 00:40:41,100
[kim_o_brien]: you

898
00:40:41,106 –> 00:40:41,326
[paul_tyler]: us again

899
00:40:41,341 –> 00:40:41,382
[kim_o_brien]: if

900
00:40:41,386 –> 00:40:41,547
[paul_tyler]: next

901
00:40:41,442 –> 00:40:42,787
[kim_o_brien]: you need any help let me know

902
00:40:42,709 –> 00:40:48,041
[paul_tyler]: okay m i will take you up
on that so listen thanks for listening join

903
00:40:48,102 –> 00:40:51,012
[paul_tyler]: us again next week for another episode
of that annuity show

904
00:40:50,947 –> 00:40:53,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah yah

Nick DesrocherEpisode 166: Keeping Annuity Regulations Rational with Kim O’Brien
read more

Episode 165: How I Built this Practice from Facebook with Andy Panko

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We usually have a good idea of where our interviews will head. However, sometimes we discover a more interesting story the longer we talk. That happened today. We thought we would be discussing advisory fee structures. Instead, we learned how Andy Panko, owner and financial planner at Tenon Financial built a half million dollar a year practice starting with a private Facebook group in 2019 and a strong commitment to fair pricing. Take good notes!

Links mentioned:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andypanko/

https://tenonfinancial.com/

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Episode Transcript

1
00:00:02,066 –> 00:00:02,828
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler

2
00:00:02,705 –> 00:00:02,948
[bruno_caron]: oh

3
00:00:02,968 –> 00:00:07,257
[paul_tyler]: and welcome to another episode of the
nuit show and we’re goin to have an

4
00:00:07,317 –> 00:00:10,103
[paul_tyler]: interesting discussion around one of our

5
00:00:10,405 –> 00:00:10,505
[bruno_caron]: ah

6
00:00:11,636 –> 00:00:13,482
[paul_tyler]: passion topics fees

7
00:00:13,616 –> 00:00:13,656
[bruno_caron]: hm

8
00:00:13,904 –> 00:00:16,413
[paul_tyler]: and value that consumers

9
00:00:16,325 –> 00:00:16,345
[bruno_caron]: m

10
00:00:17,497 –> 00:00:19,731
[paul_tyler]: clients received from it ramsey welcome

11
00:00:19,470 –> 00:00:19,754
[andy_panko]: oh

12
00:00:20,555 –> 00:00:20,781
[bruno_caron]: oh

13
00:00:20,750 –> 00:00:21,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul great to be here

14
00:00:22,106 –> 00:00:22,327
[paul_tyler]: it looks

15
00:00:22,175 –> 00:00:22,985
[bruno_caron]: yeah

16
00:00:22,347 –> 00:00:25,102
[paul_tyler]: like you’re not in your usual location

17
00:00:25,594 –> 00:00:26,415
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m not in atlanta

18
00:00:26,055 –> 00:00:26,155
[bruno_caron]: ah

19
00:00:26,696 –> 00:00:29,822
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m an an undisclosed location here in
manhattan

20
00:00:30,396 –> 00:00:32,059
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right well hopefully we can

21
00:00:31,985 –> 00:00:32,645
[bruno_caron]: yeah

22
00:00:32,119 –> 00:00:32,900
[paul_tyler]: connect we’ve we’ve

23
00:00:32,915 –> 00:00:33,336
[bruno_caron]: oh

24
00:00:32,940 –> 00:00:34,223
[paul_tyler]: been going back and forth and

25
00:00:34,184 –> 00:00:34,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

26
00:00:34,383 –> 00:00:35,645
[paul_tyler]: be great to see ou actually in
person

27
00:00:35,735 –> 00:00:37,205
[bruno_caron]: yeah

28
00:00:36,086 –> 00:00:40,214
[paul_tyler]: bruno welcome as as a regular host
of our

29
00:00:40,206 –> 00:00:40,835
[bruno_caron]: okay

30
00:00:40,294 –> 00:00:40,474
[paul_tyler]: show

31
00:00:41,645 –> 00:00:43,449
[bruno_caron]: thank you it’s a pleasure and an
honor

32
00:00:43,432 –> 00:00:43,595
[andy_panko]: yeah

33
00:00:44,447 –> 00:00:48,682
[paul_tyler]: and yeah congratulations on your our new
role so tell us you know what you’re

34
00:00:48,702 –> 00:00:49,264
[paul_tyler]: doing these days

35
00:00:50,326 –> 00:00:52,690
[bruno_caron]: thank you appreciate it and now i
started a

36
00:00:53,104 –> 00:00:53,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

37
00:00:53,271 –> 00:01:01,665
[bruno_caron]: role as a principle at life works
it’s an employee benefit consulting firm in in

38
00:01:01,654 –> 00:01:02,344
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

39
00:01:01,765 –> 00:01:07,835
[bruno_caron]: canada and i’m very happy to say
that i joined a very talented team and

40
00:01:08,760 –> 00:01:09,420
[andy_panko]: oh

41
00:01:09,057 –> 00:01:14,907
[bruno_caron]: the whole story on on retirement income
continues i’ll be involved and some of pension

42
00:01:14,987 –> 00:01:23,441
[bruno_caron]: risk transfer transactions as well as some
new retirements last lifetime income solutions so so

43
00:01:23,542 –> 00:01:25,787
[bruno_caron]: very happy to to in that team

44
00:01:26,746 –> 00:01:30,492
[paul_tyler]: excellent and i was i was actually
out in las vegas for four days last

45
00:01:30,573 –> 00:01:31,614
[paul_tyler]: week at insure tech

46
00:01:31,904 –> 00:01:31,925
[bruno_caron]: m

47
00:01:32,195 –> 00:01:32,776
[paul_tyler]: connect and

48
00:01:33,254 –> 00:01:33,497
[bruno_caron]: m oh

49
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: it’s really interesting a lot

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[ramsey_d_smith]: no

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[paul_tyler]: of the people

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: we’ve been talking to over the last
you know couple of years were out there

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[paul_tyler]: and you know

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: it was tremendous to see the energy
going

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: into the retirement plan in arena from
a technology standpoint

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: from a

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: um

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: from an advisor standpoint a lot of
advisors out there you know talking about the

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: startups they’ve launched in stuff

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: and

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: hey listen today we’re lucky enough to
have another guest

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: who is

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: it’s got a

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: really interesting background

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: and bring this

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: kind of a wealth of experience to
both clients and

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: advisors and i think well to our
listeners as well

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[andy_panko]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: and i’d like to welcome

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: andy

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: paco

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: who is the

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[paul_tyler]: owner and financial

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[andy_panko]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: planner

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: of tennant financial

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[andy_panko]: ye

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[paul_tyler]: in new jersey and welcome

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: hi hey guys thanks for having me

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: and can you just tell people a
little bit about you know who you are

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[paul_tyler]: and what you do

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[andy_panko]: sure i am a solo

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: r i a operation based in new

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: jersey firm name is ten in financial
i do financial planning

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: and investment management all togeter and one
combined offering specifically

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: working with people traditional interne retirement folks

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: um my my differentiator is really strong
tax knowledge

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: tax focus and get very hands on
it in the weeds with

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[andy_panko]: tax planning around distributions medic are sure
charges affordable care at credits if people are

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: on affordable care act roth conversions et
cetera

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: and and tie it all together

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[andy_panko]: and do it all for at fee
that is not just percent of assets

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[paul_tyler]: okay flat fee that’s

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: not just a percentage of assets ramsey

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[andy_panko]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: what do you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: think of that

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i think

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s an important business model for the
future and in financial planning you know one

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[ramsey_d_smith]: of the

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: one of the things that that we
that we face certainly s as folks that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: are in

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[bruno_caron]: yes

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the insurance industry is that you know
a lot of the

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot of the products and solutions

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that we provide to people umouknowdon’t they
compensate way many financial planners or financial advisers

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[ramsey_d_smith]: are used to getting compensated

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in leaden without getting into the debate
over

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[andy_panko]: right

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[ramsey_d_smith]: commissions versus

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: versus

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: w a u m p s which

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: more with les is just different

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and you know a a flat feet
structure brings

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: with it the potential for like pure

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ure objectivity

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and from my perspective in a world
where

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: we’re looking for

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: for

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: for incentive structures

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[andy_panko]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that that allow for the possibility

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: of best interest

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: advising

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[andy_panko]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: think flat fees are marvellous for that
big fan

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: thank you and that was my thoughts
as well and one of the reasons why

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[andy_panko]: when i set out and started this
business in twenty

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: nineteen and i was planning it for
about three years prior so i really thought

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[andy_panko]: through with intention what i wanted to
be how i wanted to charge what i

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[andy_panko]: wanted to offer who i wanted to
work

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: with et cetera i just i couldn’t
make sense of percent of assets i know

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[andy_panko]: the majority industry does that um

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[andy_panko]: and it’s just

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[andy_panko]: i worked in institutional investments in banking
for the better part of twenty years prior

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[andy_panko]: to doing this and was in and
around the percent of asset model and just

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[andy_panko]: saw i knew enough to know that
the amount of work

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[andy_panko]: or effort or resources or experts or
complexity involved in managing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: three million dollars versus one

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: just it’s not close linear an asset
size

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: is a terribly random indicator of the

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[andy_panko]: value provided the experts needed this resources
the time et cetera et cetera so so

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[andy_panko]: my thought was

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: i have a very clear focus of
who i want to work with what my

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[andy_panko]: services are going

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[bruno_caron]: yes

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[andy_panko]: to be i’m going to intentionally

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: turn away anyone

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: that’s outside this sort of

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: custom crafted avatar if

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[andy_panko]: you will of the scenario and client
type i want to work with they’re all

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[andy_panko]: going no more or less want and
need the same services have the same general

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[andy_panko]: paying

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: points and planning opportunities et cetera

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: asset size

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: frankly has nothing to do with it
so why charge on that let me come

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[andy_panko]: up with a fee that i think
is fair for what i do what i

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[andy_panko]: provide it’s loosely based on hours

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh i

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[andy_panko]: also kind of roughly bench marked to
what would they be paying my typical ideal

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[andy_panko]: client would be paying under percent of
assets model so make sure i’m not straying

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[andy_panko]: too far from that and thats what
i came up with and it’s been

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: a it’s working out really well clients

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[andy_panko]: like it i like it it does
it’s not conflict free you know i’ll be

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[andy_panko]: the first to say no

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: fee model is conflict free

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: but i feel it’s a lot more
logical and mutually fair

250
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[bruno_caron]: oh

251
00:06:03,124 –> 00:06:03,344
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[andy_panko]: and has less flaws and less conflict
than something like percent of assets

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so i actually want to touch on

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[bruno_caron]: may

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that if we could because what are
i think the first thing you said which

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[ramsey_d_smith]: is that there’s no there’s

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[andy_panko]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: no version of compensation that doesn’t have
some kind of conflict

259
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[andy_panko]: right

260
00:06:19,445 –> 00:06:19,627
[bruno_caron]: yeah

261
00:06:19,791 –> 00:06:22,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: right so in this model what do

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you see is the conflict and how
do you how do you address

264
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[bruno_caron]: oh

265
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[ramsey_d_smith]: them

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[andy_panko]: the conflict is you know i charge
now eighty four hundred a year for single

267
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[andy_panko]: folks ninety six hundred from married

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[andy_panko]: i

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[andy_panko]: can in theory just sit with my
feet up on the

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[andy_panko]: desk and the money’s come and now
the client is always free to fire me

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[andy_panko]: and go separate way so they can

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

276
00:06:42,256 –> 00:06:45,983
[andy_panko]: always if they feel they’re not getting
enough value out of me or they feel

277
00:06:46,083 –> 00:06:49,108
[andy_panko]: i am messing around and not doing
anything then they

278
00:06:48,995 –> 00:06:49,217
[bruno_caron]: oh

279
00:06:49,168 –> 00:06:55,822
[andy_panko]: can simply cut ties and start paying
me um but you know that’s sort of

280
00:06:55,842 –> 00:06:59,606
[andy_panko]: the conflict where the money is always
coming in unless i really herentically fail

281
00:06:59,645 –> 00:06:59,866
[bruno_caron]: yeah

282
00:06:59,646 –> 00:07:02,008
[andy_panko]: the client by some way in which
case then they’re gonna leave

283
00:07:02,430 –> 00:07:02,553
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

284
00:07:02,645 –> 00:07:02,866
[bruno_caron]: oh

285
00:07:03,210 –> 00:07:05,695
[andy_panko]: so not to say it doesn’t incentivize
me to work i mean there’s always the

286
00:07:05,755 –> 00:07:07,158
[andy_panko]: incentive you want to work you want

287
00:07:07,175 –> 00:07:07,459
[bruno_caron]: yeah

288
00:07:07,198 –> 00:07:10,204
[andy_panko]: to provide value you want to show
the client you’re doing something for them so

289
00:07:10,264 –> 00:07:11,286
[andy_panko]: i still have that but

290
00:07:11,585 –> 00:07:11,605
[bruno_caron]: m

291
00:07:12,108 –> 00:07:14,946
[andy_panko]: um now just to be fair that
there’s the conflict

292
00:07:14,675 –> 00:07:14,978
[bruno_caron]: yah

293
00:07:14,986 –> 00:07:15,448
[andy_panko]: that the

294
00:07:15,436 –> 00:07:15,577
[paul_tyler]: ye

295
00:07:15,468 –> 00:07:16,311
[andy_panko]: fee is the fee it’s always

296
00:07:16,214 –> 00:07:16,235
[bruno_caron]: h

297
00:07:16,331 –> 00:07:17,396
[andy_panko]: going to show up until they fire
me

298
00:07:17,684 –> 00:07:17,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

299
00:07:18,065 –> 00:07:18,266
[bruno_caron]: oh

300
00:07:18,104 –> 00:07:20,649
[ramsey_d_smith]: well i think you’re being you’re being
modest generous

301
00:07:20,585 –> 00:07:20,906
[bruno_caron]: oh

302
00:07:20,769 –> 00:07:20,790
[andy_panko]: m

303
00:07:21,109 –> 00:07:21,250
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

304
00:07:21,390 –> 00:07:21,954
[andy_panko]: uh

305
00:07:22,492 –> 00:07:23,473
[ramsey_d_smith]: being a bit modest in that

306
00:07:23,421 –> 00:07:23,622
[bruno_caron]: yeah

307
00:07:23,814 –> 00:07:24,054
[ramsey_d_smith]: the end of

308
00:07:24,009 –> 00:07:24,030
[andy_panko]: h

309
00:07:24,074 –> 00:07:26,238
[ramsey_d_smith]: the day you’re you’re justifying an explicit

310
00:07:25,895 –> 00:07:26,116
[bruno_caron]: oh

311
00:07:26,318 –> 00:07:27,841
[ramsey_d_smith]: fee every year and there’s a

312
00:07:27,870 –> 00:07:28,215
[andy_panko]: oh

313
00:07:27,901 –> 00:07:31,751
[ramsey_d_smith]: conversation it sounds like a m p
s just sort of slip

314
00:07:31,595 –> 00:07:31,798
[bruno_caron]: oh

315
00:07:31,851 –> 00:07:32,172
[ramsey_d_smith]: into the

316
00:07:32,160 –> 00:07:32,381
[andy_panko]: yeah

317
00:07:32,474 –> 00:07:32,935
[ramsey_d_smith]: returns

318
00:07:32,735 –> 00:07:33,037
[bruno_caron]: oh

319
00:07:33,457 –> 00:07:33,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and

320
00:07:33,864 –> 00:07:33,965
[bruno_caron]: yeah

321
00:07:33,979 –> 00:07:34,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: sometimes aren’t

322
00:07:34,500 –> 00:07:34,520
[andy_panko]: m

323
00:07:34,541 –> 00:07:34,802
[ramsey_d_smith]: all that

324
00:07:35,345 –> 00:07:35,365
[bruno_caron]: m

325
00:07:35,535 –> 00:07:35,999
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s visible

326
00:07:35,751 –> 00:07:35,852
[andy_panko]: it’s

327
00:07:36,282 –> 00:07:36,363
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

328
00:07:37,150 –> 00:07:37,390
[andy_panko]: yeah

329
00:07:37,325 –> 00:07:38,015
[bruno_caron]: yeah

330
00:07:37,811 –> 00:07:39,293
[andy_panko]: and mpesargoof

331
00:07:38,314 –> 00:07:39,687
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah oh

332
00:07:39,414 –> 00:07:40,475
[andy_panko]: in a lot of way so

333
00:07:40,925 –> 00:07:41,207
[bruno_caron]: oh

334
00:07:41,217 –> 00:07:42,298
[andy_panko]: advisors get more

335
00:07:42,694 –> 00:07:42,795
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

336
00:07:43,300 –> 00:07:46,005
[andy_panko]: let’s call it what it is advisors
vast join advisors don’t

337
00:07:46,004 –> 00:07:46,025
[bruno_caron]: m

338
00:07:46,025 –> 00:07:49,691
[andy_panko]: have any special modo or secret sauce
when it comes to picking vestments and out

339
00:07:49,711 –> 00:07:51,514
[andy_panko]: performing the markets we all know that
there’s

340
00:07:51,425 –> 00:07:51,605
[bruno_caron]: oh

341
00:07:51,834 –> 00:07:52,095
[andy_panko]: endless

342
00:07:51,836 –> 00:07:51,857
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

343
00:07:52,315 –> 00:07:52,976
[andy_panko]: amounts of research

344
00:07:52,693 –> 00:07:52,714
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

345
00:07:53,317 –> 00:07:53,798
[andy_panko]: that show that

346
00:07:54,755 –> 00:07:55,955
[bruno_caron]: oh

347
00:07:55,661 –> 00:07:56,883
[andy_panko]: yet when markets go

348
00:07:57,005 –> 00:07:57,251
[bruno_caron]: yeah

349
00:07:57,103 –> 00:08:00,008
[andy_panko]: up advisors make more all else equal
simply

350
00:07:59,975 –> 00:08:00,279
[bruno_caron]: oh

351
00:08:00,068 –> 00:08:00,930
[andy_panko]: because the market went up

352
00:08:00,995 –> 00:08:01,217
[bruno_caron]: oh

353
00:08:01,230 –> 00:08:05,037
[andy_panko]: it’s just bata it’s not advisor magic
it’s not advisor special service it’s simply bata

354
00:08:06,540 –> 00:08:08,343
[andy_panko]: and oftentimes when markets are good

355
00:08:08,294 –> 00:08:08,315
[bruno_caron]: m

356
00:08:08,383 –> 00:08:11,369
[andy_panko]: and chugging along people don’t have problems
you know clients

357
00:08:11,255 –> 00:08:11,275
[bruno_caron]: m

358
00:08:11,389 –> 00:08:13,332
[andy_panko]: aren’t reaching out oh my god what
we’re going to do et cetera

359
00:08:13,865 –> 00:08:13,885
[bruno_caron]: m

360
00:08:14,154 –> 00:08:16,418
[andy_panko]: now is the opposite now markets down
twenty thirty

361
00:08:16,264 –> 00:08:16,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

362
00:08:16,518 –> 00:08:16,899
[andy_panko]: per cent

363
00:08:17,375 –> 00:08:17,618
[bruno_caron]: oh

364
00:08:17,800 –> 00:08:18,721
[andy_panko]: advisers getting paid

365
00:08:18,573 –> 00:08:18,695
[bruno_caron]: yeah

366
00:08:18,801 –> 00:08:20,384
[andy_panko]: all s equal you now twenty to
thirty per cent

367
00:08:20,435 –> 00:08:20,757
[bruno_caron]: oh

368
00:08:20,484 –> 00:08:23,629
[andy_panko]: less clients are more on edge reaching
out

369
00:08:23,495 –> 00:08:23,762
[bruno_caron]: oh

370
00:08:24,110 –> 00:08:27,716
[andy_panko]: now if nothing else there’s more calls
and emails you have to feel to talk

371
00:08:27,725 –> 00:08:27,826
[bruno_caron]: ah

372
00:08:27,776 –> 00:08:28,878
[andy_panko]: with clients and you know

373
00:08:29,374 –> 00:08:29,435
[bruno_caron]: ah

374
00:08:29,419 –> 00:08:34,848
[andy_panko]: welcome alleged things like that and there’s
more planning opportunities like tax lost harvesting and

375
00:08:34,868 –> 00:08:38,454
[andy_panko]: doing roth conversion with things redowa so
there’s a real strong

376
00:08:38,465 –> 00:08:38,708
[bruno_caron]: oh

377
00:08:38,514 –> 00:08:42,741
[andy_panko]: argument logical argument to be made that
advisors work more do more ovide more value

378
00:08:43,643 –> 00:08:45,506
[andy_panko]: when assets are down ad they’re getting
paid less

379
00:08:45,665 –> 00:08:46,685
[bruno_caron]: oh

380
00:08:46,287 –> 00:08:47,930
[andy_panko]: than the opposite so

381
00:08:47,975 –> 00:08:48,296
[bruno_caron]: oh

382
00:08:48,351 –> 00:08:51,015
[andy_panko]: you know for that amongst a host
of other reasons just percent

383
00:08:50,836 –> 00:08:51,946
[paul_tyler]: yeah

384
00:08:51,035 –> 00:08:51,400
[bruno_caron]: oh

385
00:08:51,055 –> 00:08:52,738
[andy_panko]: of assets is such a goofy

386
00:08:52,846 –> 00:08:52,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

387
00:08:52,918 –> 00:08:53,219
[andy_panko]: silly

388
00:08:54,125 –> 00:08:54,386
[bruno_caron]: oh

389
00:08:54,221 –> 00:08:58,154
[andy_panko]: um arbitrary almost backward way to charge
in my opinion for the reasons

390
00:08:58,120 –> 00:08:58,223
[bruno_caron]: ah

391
00:08:58,194 –> 00:08:58,576
[andy_panko]: i mentioned

392
00:09:00,016 –> 00:09:03,562
[paul_tyler]: fascinatin so ah it’s the more more
phone

393
00:09:03,476 –> 00:09:03,576
[bruno_caron]: ah

394
00:09:03,602 –> 00:09:03,823
[paul_tyler]: calls

395
00:09:03,630 –> 00:09:03,913
[andy_panko]: oh

396
00:09:03,903 –> 00:09:05,405
[paul_tyler]: come in the less you less you
make

397
00:09:05,345 –> 00:09:05,666
[bruno_caron]: oh

398
00:09:05,626 –> 00:09:05,766
[paul_tyler]: um

399
00:09:06,400 –> 00:09:06,522
[andy_panko]: yep

400
00:09:07,008 –> 00:09:09,512
[paul_tyler]: commission structures are fascening you know i
ran

401
00:09:09,395 –> 00:09:09,555
[bruno_caron]: yeah

402
00:09:09,612 –> 00:09:11,195
[paul_tyler]: commissions for an insurance company for

403
00:09:11,304 –> 00:09:11,405
[bruno_caron]: yeah

404
00:09:11,576 –> 00:09:12,177
[paul_tyler]: year and a half that

405
00:09:12,125 –> 00:09:12,365
[bruno_caron]: oh

406
00:09:12,217 –> 00:09:15,483
[paul_tyler]: was two years that was an interesting
experience i mean to learn a lot

407
00:09:15,399 –> 00:09:15,420
[andy_panko]: m

408
00:09:15,545 –> 00:09:15,849
[bruno_caron]: oh

409
00:09:17,046 –> 00:09:17,966
[paul_tyler]: you have an institutional

410
00:09:17,461 –> 00:09:17,561
[andy_panko]: ah

411
00:09:18,047 –> 00:09:19,668
[paul_tyler]: background tell us a little bit about
that and

412
00:09:19,715 –> 00:09:19,916
[bruno_caron]: yeah

413
00:09:20,209 –> 00:09:22,451
[paul_tyler]: how does that how is that shaped

414
00:09:22,444 –> 00:09:23,224
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

415
00:09:22,625 –> 00:09:22,845
[bruno_caron]: yah

416
00:09:23,672 –> 00:09:25,554
[paul_tyler]: your practice with individuals

417
00:09:25,814 –> 00:09:25,835
[bruno_caron]: h

418
00:09:26,402 –> 00:09:27,063
[andy_panko]: sure so

419
00:09:27,044 –> 00:09:27,065
[bruno_caron]: m

420
00:09:27,504 –> 00:09:28,746
[andy_panko]: all of my experience

421
00:09:29,285 –> 00:09:30,185
[bruno_caron]: oh

422
00:09:29,487 –> 00:09:31,210
[andy_panko]: and experiences that almost have it didn’t

423
00:09:31,025 –> 00:09:31,354
[bruno_caron]: oh

424
00:09:31,531 –> 00:09:35,898
[andy_panko]: shaped my views my practice what i
do now so going all the way back

425
00:09:35,958 –> 00:09:36,780
[andy_panko]: i graduate to college

426
00:09:36,725 –> 00:09:36,968
[bruno_caron]: oh

427
00:09:36,880 –> 00:09:39,825
[andy_panko]: two thousand went to school for finance
wanted to

428
00:09:39,754 –> 00:09:40,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

429
00:09:39,865 –> 00:09:40,065
[andy_panko]: be an

430
00:09:40,055 –> 00:09:40,356
[bruno_caron]: oh

431
00:09:40,125 –> 00:09:41,848
[andy_panko]: advisor not knowing what it was just
wanted

432
00:09:41,884 –> 00:09:42,005
[bruno_caron]: yeah

433
00:09:41,888 –> 00:09:44,032
[andy_panko]: to help people with money you know
is that simple

434
00:09:43,835 –> 00:09:44,143
[bruno_caron]: oh

435
00:09:44,913 –> 00:09:45,073
[andy_panko]: um

436
00:09:45,260 –> 00:09:45,342
[bruno_caron]: ah

437
00:09:46,115 –> 00:09:46,676
[andy_panko]: i interviewed

438
00:09:46,625 –> 00:09:46,886
[bruno_caron]: yeah

439
00:09:46,736 –> 00:09:48,399
[andy_panko]: at a lot of the large places
who were

440
00:09:48,494 –> 00:09:48,614
[bruno_caron]: yeah

441
00:09:48,679 –> 00:09:54,289
[andy_panko]: on campus namely large insurance companies and
the big wire houses and quickly got turned

442
00:09:54,389 –> 00:09:54,529
[andy_panko]: off

443
00:09:54,755 –> 00:09:54,775
[bruno_caron]: m

444
00:09:55,230 –> 00:09:58,235
[andy_panko]: this was again twenty something years ago
there was much more of a perverse

445
00:09:58,265 –> 00:09:58,508
[bruno_caron]: yeah

446
00:09:58,355 –> 00:09:59,017
[andy_panko]: sales culture

447
00:09:59,583 –> 00:09:59,705
[bruno_caron]: yeah

448
00:09:59,918 –> 00:10:01,421
[andy_panko]: a um gathering called or sell this

449
00:10:01,445 –> 00:10:01,649
[bruno_caron]: oh

450
00:10:01,501 –> 00:10:02,603
[andy_panko]: loaded mutual fund culture

451
00:10:02,555 –> 00:10:03,134
[bruno_caron]: yea

452
00:10:02,923 –> 00:10:05,347
[andy_panko]: then than there is now and you
know

453
00:10:05,345 –> 00:10:06,095
[bruno_caron]: yeah

454
00:10:05,387 –> 00:10:08,272
[andy_panko]: the common denominator with all those things
i was interviewed for was just sell else

455
00:10:08,345 –> 00:10:08,566
[bruno_caron]: oh

456
00:10:08,973 –> 00:10:12,018
[andy_panko]: and i never wanted to do sales
in the traditional sense so

457
00:10:12,065 –> 00:10:12,388
[bruno_caron]: oh

458
00:10:12,098 –> 00:10:14,171
[andy_panko]: i i got turned of by that
and gave up in the idea of being

459
00:10:14,211 –> 00:10:16,011
[andy_panko]: an advisor stumbled

460
00:10:15,905 –> 00:10:16,168
[bruno_caron]: yah

461
00:10:16,051 –> 00:10:17,353
[andy_panko]: into an actuarial job at

462
00:10:17,384 –> 00:10:17,405
[bruno_caron]: h

463
00:10:17,433 –> 00:10:19,657
[andy_panko]: a major insure you know on the
corporate side

464
00:10:19,535 –> 00:10:19,940
[bruno_caron]: oh

465
00:10:19,797 –> 00:10:20,438
[andy_panko]: not advising at

466
00:10:20,405 –> 00:10:20,628
[bruno_caron]: oh

467
00:10:20,498 –> 00:10:24,104
[andy_panko]: all and it was cool did that
i was

468
00:10:24,185 –> 00:10:24,409
[bruno_caron]: yeah

469
00:10:24,224 –> 00:10:27,209
[andy_panko]: at a major insurance company in the
us for for four years

470
00:10:27,695 –> 00:10:28,565
[bruno_caron]: oh

471
00:10:27,931 –> 00:10:29,533
[andy_panko]: put myself on my own rotation while

472
00:10:29,435 –> 00:10:29,719
[bruno_caron]: oh

473
00:10:29,553 –> 00:10:31,296
[andy_panko]: i was there i wanted to see
and do different things

474
00:10:31,184 –> 00:10:31,205
[bruno_caron]: m

475
00:10:31,316 –> 00:10:32,979
[andy_panko]: you know super young and eager and
wanted to learn

476
00:10:32,855 –> 00:10:33,097
[bruno_caron]: oh

477
00:10:34,021 –> 00:10:35,543
[andy_panko]: so in the four years i was
there

478
00:10:35,585 –> 00:10:35,846
[bruno_caron]: oh

479
00:10:35,704 –> 00:10:39,730
[andy_panko]: i had four different roles one was
an actuary role one

480
00:10:39,648 –> 00:10:39,668
[bruno_caron]: m

481
00:10:39,830 –> 00:10:44,779
[andy_panko]: was helping manage a general account one
was securities lending and the fourth

482
00:10:44,585 –> 00:10:44,806
[bruno_caron]: yes

483
00:10:44,919 –> 00:10:47,844
[andy_panko]: one was private placement credit research so
saw

484
00:10:47,885 –> 00:10:48,109
[bruno_caron]: yeah

485
00:10:48,024 –> 00:10:52,792
[andy_panko]: dramatically different areas of the insurance world
but learned boat load in that relatively short

486
00:10:52,852 –> 00:10:54,815
[andy_panko]: time about insurance and investments

487
00:10:54,815 –> 00:10:55,057
[bruno_caron]: yeah

488
00:10:54,876 –> 00:10:59,363
[andy_panko]: and etcetera um got my m b
a while i was there i went part

489
00:10:59,443 –> 00:11:02,648
[andy_panko]: time the company i was at paid
for they paid ninety percent so

490
00:11:02,585 –> 00:11:02,826
[bruno_caron]: yes

491
00:11:03,350 –> 00:11:05,530
[andy_panko]: is working while going to school with

492
00:11:05,555 –> 00:11:06,155
[bruno_caron]: yeah

493
00:11:05,690 –> 00:11:09,497
[andy_panko]: m b a in hand i left
there was no requirement to stay even though

494
00:11:09,517 –> 00:11:09,857
[andy_panko]: they paid for

495
00:11:09,854 –> 00:11:09,875
[bruno_caron]: m

496
00:11:09,877 –> 00:11:10,578
[andy_panko]: the majority of it

497
00:11:11,195 –> 00:11:11,420
[bruno_caron]: oh

498
00:11:11,440 –> 00:11:13,664
[andy_panko]: so i left went to a large

499
00:11:14,045 –> 00:11:14,326
[bruno_caron]: oh

500
00:11:14,084 –> 00:11:20,695
[andy_panko]: japanese global bank to do counterpart derivative
credit research so basically

501
00:11:21,245 –> 00:11:21,448
[bruno_caron]: oh

502
00:11:21,376 –> 00:11:25,964
[andy_panko]: the bank was trading for in exchange
interest rate derivatives and credit the fault swaps

503
00:11:26,305 –> 00:11:27,106
[andy_panko]: with other banks

504
00:11:27,785 –> 00:11:28,349
[bruno_caron]: oh

505
00:11:27,887 –> 00:11:32,295
[andy_panko]: hedge funds and do the analysis of
how much risk and exposure are

506
00:11:32,254 –> 00:11:33,481
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

507
00:11:32,315 –> 00:11:36,381
[andy_panko]: we comfortable taking to the banks and
these hedge funds with these derivative products were

508
00:11:36,402 –> 00:11:41,531
[andy_panko]: trading did that for a few years
move to market risk analyzing the risk of

509
00:11:41,855 –> 00:11:42,157
[bruno_caron]: oh

510
00:11:41,993 –> 00:11:43,239
[andy_panko]: those same products interest rate

511
00:11:43,265 –> 00:11:43,530
[bruno_caron]: oh

512
00:11:43,279 –> 00:11:48,374
[andy_panko]: derivatives for in exchange credit the fault
um and then bounced around a few other

513
00:11:49,025 –> 00:11:49,287
[bruno_caron]: oh

514
00:11:49,155 –> 00:11:52,902
[andy_panko]: large banks all more or less doing
the same sort of counter

515
00:11:52,625 –> 00:11:52,829
[bruno_caron]: yeah

516
00:11:52,982 –> 00:11:53,703
[andy_panko]: party credit

517
00:11:53,675 –> 00:11:54,335
[bruno_caron]: yeah

518
00:11:54,063 –> 00:11:58,471
[andy_panko]: analysis where majority of my career was
we would do to if trades

519
00:11:58,324 –> 00:11:58,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

520
00:11:58,631 –> 00:12:02,077
[andy_panko]: end or lend money through prime brokerage
to hedge funds private equity funds

521
00:12:02,615 –> 00:12:02,919
[bruno_caron]: oh

522
00:12:03,139 –> 00:12:03,880
[andy_panko]: finance like

523
00:12:03,835 –> 00:12:04,058
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

524
00:12:04,100 –> 00:12:06,184
[andy_panko]: activist position trades and all sorts of
funky

525
00:12:06,065 –> 00:12:06,287
[bruno_caron]: yeah

526
00:12:06,304 –> 00:12:13,175
[andy_panko]: equity trades and foreign exchange and rate
derivatives so in all that got tremendous exposure

527
00:12:13,316 –> 00:12:14,277
[andy_panko]: to you know

528
00:12:15,005 –> 00:12:15,206
[bruno_caron]: yeah

529
00:12:15,760 –> 00:12:21,690
[andy_panko]: working with investment managers doing due diligence
on their traders their portfolio managers there financing

530
00:12:21,770 –> 00:12:22,492
[andy_panko]: desks or treasury

531
00:12:22,295 –> 00:12:22,597
[bruno_caron]: yeah

532
00:12:22,552 –> 00:12:24,297
[andy_panko]: desks or operations and just

533
00:12:24,273 –> 00:12:24,455
[bruno_caron]: yeah

534
00:12:24,317 –> 00:12:27,988
[andy_panko]: really learned the inner workings of investing
in the products behind it

535
00:12:28,654 –> 00:12:28,876
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

536
00:12:28,900 –> 00:12:29,901
[andy_panko]: couple that with the insurance

537
00:12:29,614 –> 00:12:29,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

538
00:12:29,921 –> 00:12:34,085
[andy_panko]: experience i had where i saw how
the sausage is made in managing the general

539
00:12:33,904 –> 00:12:34,205
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

540
00:12:34,125 –> 00:12:39,281
[andy_panko]: accounts and how actuaries price and create
things and so all that

541
00:12:39,623 –> 00:12:39,763
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

542
00:12:39,762 –> 00:12:39,982
[andy_panko]: helped

543
00:12:39,875 –> 00:12:40,117
[bruno_caron]: oh

544
00:12:40,123 –> 00:12:43,428
[andy_panko]: form this sort of deeper level of
knowledge and understanding about

545
00:12:43,444 –> 00:12:44,494
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

546
00:12:43,468 –> 00:12:47,395
[andy_panko]: a lot of the products and strategies
belying retail financial advising

547
00:12:47,825 –> 00:12:48,109
[bruno_caron]: oh

548
00:12:48,196 –> 00:12:53,222
[andy_panko]: so coming back full circle it was
twenty fifteen or sixteen still doing the institutional

549
00:12:53,302 –> 00:12:59,116
[andy_panko]: thing long commute in and out of
mid town manhattan long hours stressful days i

550
00:12:59,177 –> 00:13:02,223
[andy_panko]: was like i don’t i don’t at
to do this other twenty years made good

551
00:13:02,263 –> 00:13:02,443
[andy_panko]: money

552
00:13:03,095 –> 00:13:03,115
[bruno_caron]: m

553
00:13:03,184 –> 00:13:04,847
[andy_panko]: worked with some great folks saw some

554
00:13:04,804 –> 00:13:05,404
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

555
00:13:04,907 –> 00:13:09,715
[andy_panko]: incredibly cool funky things but just i
don’t want to do this you know

556
00:13:09,725 –> 00:13:10,027
[bruno_caron]: oh

557
00:13:10,036 –> 00:13:12,680
[andy_panko]: that much longer i always had this
itch work

558
00:13:12,605 –> 00:13:12,828
[bruno_caron]: yeah

559
00:13:12,760 –> 00:13:15,786
[andy_panko]: with with individuals directly you know thought
that’d be more fulfilling and

560
00:13:15,755 –> 00:13:15,998
[bruno_caron]: yes

561
00:13:15,847 –> 00:13:20,124
[andy_panko]: satisfying as opposed to helping a hedge
fun make more money in the trade you

562
00:13:20,164 –> 00:13:22,668
[andy_panko]: now i want to help individuals make
meaningful decisions

563
00:13:22,625 –> 00:13:22,645
[bruno_caron]: m

564
00:13:22,689 –> 00:13:25,113
[andy_panko]: in their lives so i don’t

565
00:13:25,115 –> 00:13:25,382
[bruno_caron]: yeah

566
00:13:25,153 –> 00:13:30,221
[andy_panko]: know exactly how but i came across
the x y planning that works podcast and

567
00:13:30,261 –> 00:13:33,687
[andy_panko]: that blew the lid off for me
that’s where they started interviewing you know every

568
00:13:33,787 –> 00:13:37,854
[andy_panko]: week a different financial visor who’s focusing
on working with gnxragen

569
00:13:37,446 –> 00:13:37,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

570
00:13:38,495 –> 00:13:44,084
[andy_panko]: and has alternate fee structures service models
they do early service um et cetera it’s

571
00:13:44,184 –> 00:13:48,311
[andy_panko]: not just sell product that’s not just
gather assets is where i’m going and hearing

572
00:13:48,431 –> 00:13:52,598
[andy_panko]: other people’s stories that yeah wow you
can do advising and planning the way you

573
00:13:52,618 –> 00:13:56,645
[andy_panko]: think it should be done that was
it like i was hooked that then re

574
00:13:56,705 –> 00:14:01,233
[andy_panko]: invigorated me to be like yeh let
me revisit this financial advising thing

575
00:14:01,415 –> 00:14:02,795
[bruno_caron]: oh

576
00:14:02,014 –> 00:14:04,558
[andy_panko]: but let me do it on my
terms you know i want to work for

577
00:14:04,598 –> 00:14:07,809
[andy_panko]: myself i don’t want get a big
place anymore i did that for twenty years

578
00:14:07,670 –> 00:14:07,690
[bruno_caron]: a

579
00:14:07,849 –> 00:14:08,511
[andy_panko]: i dont want to commute

580
00:14:09,095 –> 00:14:09,358
[bruno_caron]: oh

581
00:14:09,234 –> 00:14:10,257
[andy_panko]: i want to work with individuals

582
00:14:10,895 –> 00:14:11,825
[bruno_caron]: oh

583
00:14:11,040 –> 00:14:14,225
[andy_panko]: but work with people i want to
work with provide services i want to provide

584
00:14:15,106 –> 00:14:17,651
[andy_panko]: charge how i want to charge i
don’t want to be hamstrung to have to

585
00:14:17,691 –> 00:14:22,218
[andy_panko]: do percent of assets or only cell
product and it all sort of came together

586
00:14:22,338 –> 00:14:25,147
[andy_panko]: with with launching my business twenty nineteen

587
00:14:26,554 –> 00:14:27,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

588
00:14:26,590 –> 00:14:28,453
[andy_panko]: how i want to do it with
who i want to do how i want

589
00:14:28,493 –> 00:14:32,140
[andy_panko]: to charge and it’s thankfully but everything
i thought it would be in the what

590
00:14:32,200 –> 00:14:35,906
[andy_panko]: are we almost three years now so
i dropped a lot on you i’ll leave

591
00:14:35,946 –> 00:14:36,427
[andy_panko]: it there for now

592
00:14:36,956 –> 00:14:37,037
[bruno_caron]: so

593
00:14:37,176 –> 00:14:38,198
[paul_tyler]: no that’s that’s that’s

594
00:14:38,160 –> 00:14:38,504
[andy_panko]: oh

595
00:14:38,499 –> 00:14:38,840
[paul_tyler]: i mean it’s

596
00:14:38,765 –> 00:14:38,992
[bruno_caron]: yeah

597
00:14:39,020 –> 00:14:40,784
[paul_tyler]: an interesting journey right and i think

598
00:14:41,229 –> 00:14:41,250
[andy_panko]: m

599
00:14:42,065 –> 00:14:42,287
[bruno_caron]: oh

600
00:14:42,767 –> 00:14:43,810
[paul_tyler]: i think your your clients

601
00:14:43,680 –> 00:14:44,790
[andy_panko]: yeah

602
00:14:43,850 –> 00:14:44,631
[paul_tyler]: are lucky to have you

603
00:14:45,305 –> 00:14:45,325
[bruno_caron]: m

604
00:14:45,710 –> 00:14:45,971
[andy_panko]: thank you

605
00:14:45,954 –> 00:14:46,054
[paul_tyler]: have

606
00:14:45,964 –> 00:14:46,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: i mean

607
00:14:46,094 –> 00:14:46,194
[paul_tyler]: that

608
00:14:46,204 –> 00:14:47,025
[ramsey_d_smith]: i got to say like

609
00:14:47,266 –> 00:14:47,286
[paul_tyler]: m

610
00:14:47,366 –> 00:14:48,488
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh that is a

611
00:14:48,496 –> 00:14:49,846
[paul_tyler]: yeah

612
00:14:48,748 –> 00:14:50,892
[ramsey_d_smith]: very there’s a very

613
00:14:50,758 –> 00:14:50,839
[paul_tyler]: ah

614
00:14:51,072 –> 00:14:51,433
[ramsey_d_smith]: broad

615
00:14:51,240 –> 00:14:51,441
[andy_panko]: yeah

616
00:14:51,533 –> 00:14:54,758
[ramsey_d_smith]: background and a lot of depth and
a lot of areas and so

617
00:14:54,815 –> 00:14:54,835
[bruno_caron]: m

618
00:14:54,859 –> 00:14:54,879
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

619
00:14:56,557 –> 00:14:56,597
[bruno_caron]: m

620
00:14:56,625 –> 00:14:56,687
[andy_panko]: ah

621
00:14:57,002 –> 00:14:58,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: ran a derivative deb for twenty

622
00:14:58,560 –> 00:14:59,160
[andy_panko]: yeah

623
00:14:58,725 –> 00:15:00,328
[ramsey_d_smith]: years so i had conversations

624
00:14:59,751 –> 00:14:59,915
[andy_panko]: okay

625
00:15:00,428 –> 00:15:02,071
[ramsey_d_smith]: with someone in that role

626
00:15:03,462 –> 00:15:03,623
[andy_panko]: yeah

627
00:15:03,505 –> 00:15:03,526
[paul_tyler]: m

628
00:15:04,034 –> 00:15:04,495
[ramsey_d_smith]: discussing

629
00:15:04,216 –> 00:15:04,461
[paul_tyler]: yeah

630
00:15:04,385 –> 00:15:05,465
[bruno_caron]: oh

631
00:15:04,555 –> 00:15:06,618
[ramsey_d_smith]: capacity like every day so

632
00:15:06,856 –> 00:15:07,756
[paul_tyler]: oh

633
00:15:07,310 –> 00:15:07,430
[andy_panko]: t was

634
00:15:07,460 –> 00:15:07,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

635
00:15:07,490 –> 00:15:07,571
[andy_panko]: me

636
00:15:07,640 –> 00:15:07,880
[ramsey_d_smith]: much of

637
00:15:08,075 –> 00:15:08,095
[bruno_caron]: u

638
00:15:08,461 –> 00:15:08,762
[ramsey_d_smith]: so much

639
00:15:08,780 –> 00:15:08,800
[bruno_caron]: h

640
00:15:08,802 –> 00:15:09,323
[ramsey_d_smith]: of what you did

641
00:15:09,404 –> 00:15:09,425
[bruno_caron]: h

642
00:15:09,563 –> 00:15:11,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know very strong understanding and understanding

643
00:15:11,490 –> 00:15:11,510
[andy_panko]: m

644
00:15:11,687 –> 00:15:12,889
[ramsey_d_smith]: like what it what it takes

645
00:15:12,785 –> 00:15:12,805
[bruno_caron]: m

646
00:15:12,929 –> 00:15:15,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to be good at that and
like so i think about like

647
00:15:15,425 –> 00:15:15,707
[bruno_caron]: oh

648
00:15:16,394 –> 00:15:17,717
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think about all you’ve done

649
00:15:18,256 –> 00:15:18,499
[paul_tyler]: yes

650
00:15:18,598 –> 00:15:18,778
[ramsey_d_smith]: pless

651
00:15:18,755 –> 00:15:19,078
[bruno_caron]: oh

652
00:15:18,818 –> 00:15:22,044
[ramsey_d_smith]: you said you know you’re focus on
tax like you walk to

653
00:15:21,970 –> 00:15:22,500
[andy_panko]: what

654
00:15:22,145 –> 00:15:23,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: a planning conversation

655
00:15:23,211 –> 00:15:23,271
[andy_panko]: to

656
00:15:24,574 –> 00:15:29,643
[ramsey_d_smith]: with with someone with with just way
more tools than your average

657
00:15:29,490 –> 00:15:29,752
[andy_panko]: yeah

658
00:15:30,124 –> 00:15:30,945
[ramsey_d_smith]: planner is going to have

659
00:15:30,905 –> 00:15:31,148
[bruno_caron]: yes

660
00:15:31,466 –> 00:15:31,827
[ramsey_d_smith]: and because

661
00:15:32,465 –> 00:15:33,605
[bruno_caron]: my

662
00:15:32,588 –> 00:15:34,391
[ramsey_d_smith]: they don’t teach all that stuff in
the c f p right

663
00:15:35,015 –> 00:15:35,297
[bruno_caron]: oh

664
00:15:35,280 –> 00:15:35,380
[andy_panko]: no

665
00:15:35,395 –> 00:15:35,416
[paul_tyler]: m

666
00:15:35,874 –> 00:15:36,014
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

667
00:15:35,883 –> 00:15:36,446
[andy_panko]: definitely not

668
00:15:36,875 –> 00:15:36,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

669
00:15:37,231 –> 00:15:37,372
[andy_panko]: yeah

670
00:15:37,817 –> 00:15:41,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: so guess two questions like how do
you how do you

671
00:15:42,095 –> 00:15:42,319
[bruno_caron]: yeah

672
00:15:42,416 –> 00:15:45,220
[ramsey_d_smith]: how are you leveraging that to get
you know i guess to sort of beat

673
00:15:45,260 –> 00:15:46,042
[ramsey_d_smith]: out the competition

674
00:15:45,780 –> 00:15:46,063
[andy_panko]: oh

675
00:15:46,142 –> 00:15:47,644
[ramsey_d_smith]: given that you’ve got these extra tools

676
00:15:48,215 –> 00:15:48,439
[bruno_caron]: oh

677
00:15:48,225 –> 00:15:50,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: and the other piece and this is
sort of one of the things that i

678
00:15:50,169 –> 00:15:51,731
[ramsey_d_smith]: always wonder when you got when one
goes

679
00:15:51,720 –> 00:15:51,924
[andy_panko]: yah

680
00:15:51,771 –> 00:15:59,471
[ramsey_d_smith]: from institutional too the individual do you
know is do the individuals kind of understand

681
00:16:00,121 –> 00:16:00,242
[andy_panko]: ah

682
00:16:00,876 –> 00:16:00,977
[ramsey_d_smith]: how

683
00:16:00,890 –> 00:16:01,385
[bruno_caron]: oh

684
00:16:01,017 –> 00:16:02,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: much depth you have how do you
sort of

685
00:16:02,883 –> 00:16:03,066
[andy_panko]: oh

686
00:16:03,894 –> 00:16:05,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: communicate to them that you know stuff

687
00:16:05,670 –> 00:16:06,690
[andy_panko]: oh

688
00:16:05,838 –> 00:16:06,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: that like the

689
00:16:07,565 –> 00:16:07,585
[bruno_caron]: m

690
00:16:07,645 –> 00:16:07,666
[paul_tyler]: m

691
00:16:08,160 –> 00:16:08,321
[andy_panko]: yeah

692
00:16:08,224 –> 00:16:09,649
[ramsey_d_smith]: so many other people just would never

693
00:16:09,556 –> 00:16:09,804
[paul_tyler]: oh

694
00:16:09,689 –> 00:16:11,073
[ramsey_d_smith]: have had the opportunity to touch

695
00:16:11,190 –> 00:16:11,471
[andy_panko]: oh

696
00:16:11,555 –> 00:16:12,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s one of the toughest things

697
00:16:12,545 –> 00:16:13,010
[bruno_caron]: oh

698
00:16:12,759 –> 00:16:13,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: in my view that i’ve seen

699
00:16:14,720 –> 00:16:18,286
[andy_panko]: yeah and the that’s a million dollar
question for advisors

700
00:16:17,844 –> 00:16:18,634
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

701
00:16:18,366 –> 00:16:20,350
[andy_panko]: how do you market how do you
get in front of people you

702
00:16:20,294 –> 00:16:20,415
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

703
00:16:20,390 –> 00:16:23,455
[andy_panko]: can be the best most technically proficient

704
00:16:24,065 –> 00:16:24,085
[bruno_caron]: m

705
00:16:24,376 –> 00:16:25,738
[andy_panko]: most perfect adviser there is

706
00:16:26,375 –> 00:16:26,679
[bruno_caron]: oh

707
00:16:26,780 –> 00:16:28,163
[andy_panko]: if you can’t get front of people
it doesn’t matter

708
00:16:28,474 –> 00:16:28,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

709
00:16:28,643 –> 00:16:29,425
[andy_panko]: you have no business

710
00:16:30,005 –> 00:16:30,246
[bruno_caron]: oh

711
00:16:30,426 –> 00:16:33,471
[andy_panko]: um i i sort of got lucky
sort of had

712
00:16:33,515 –> 00:16:34,295
[bruno_caron]: yeah

713
00:16:33,531 –> 00:16:37,037
[andy_panko]: some intention in how i got my
exposure and myself

714
00:16:36,785 –> 00:16:37,007
[bruno_caron]: yes

715
00:16:37,117 –> 00:16:39,841
[andy_panko]: in front of people was through a
facebook group

716
00:16:39,905 –> 00:16:40,126
[bruno_caron]: oh

717
00:16:39,942 –> 00:16:40,482
[andy_panko]: i created

718
00:16:40,726 –> 00:16:40,746
[paul_tyler]: m

719
00:16:41,584 –> 00:16:46,673
[andy_panko]: called taxes in retirement and so i
started my business november twenty nineteen i was

720
00:16:46,713 –> 00:16:47,394
[andy_panko]: doing traditional

721
00:16:47,165 –> 00:16:47,328
[bruno_caron]: yeah

722
00:16:47,454 –> 00:16:51,160
[andy_panko]: marketing stuff local library seminars taken centers
influence

723
00:16:50,915 –> 00:16:51,160
[bruno_caron]: oh

724
00:16:51,201 –> 00:16:53,966
[andy_panko]: out to lunch um trying to get
published

725
00:16:53,855 –> 00:16:54,098
[bruno_caron]: yeah

726
00:16:54,026 –> 00:16:58,295
[andy_panko]: in some o us news articles and
things like that and none of those really

727
00:16:58,294 –> 00:16:58,656
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

728
00:16:58,475 –> 00:17:02,031
[andy_panko]: seem to click or at least not
immediately and then pandemic happened a few months

729
00:17:02,051 –> 00:17:06,355
[andy_panko]: later and world stopped an there’s no
more in person lunches or seminars or whatever

730
00:17:07,436 –> 00:17:10,639
[andy_panko]: and so i’m like a right now
what so i started this facebook group just

731
00:17:11,530 –> 00:17:13,593
[andy_panko]: nothing else to do i was locked
in my house i was like let me

732
00:17:13,673 –> 00:17:17,720
[andy_panko]: just get online try to get exposure
to people by way of a group invite

733
00:17:17,760 –> 00:17:23,831
[andy_panko]: people to join answer their questions i’d
share helpful and sightful things about retire planning

734
00:17:23,851 –> 00:17:28,843
[andy_panko]: with a tax focus to it and
ramsey to your point like i try to

735
00:17:29,014 –> 00:17:29,257
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

736
00:17:29,163 –> 00:17:32,309
[andy_panko]: be modest but i know i know
my stuff really well from a technical perspective

737
00:17:32,349 –> 00:17:35,714
[andy_panko]: i know i have this depth from
my previous career that the vast majority

738
00:17:35,585 –> 00:17:36,066
[bruno_caron]: oh

739
00:17:35,774 –> 00:17:38,419
[andy_panko]: of retail advisors don’t and probably never
will

740
00:17:38,746 –> 00:17:39,796
[paul_tyler]: oh

741
00:17:39,341 –> 00:17:39,823
[andy_panko]: so so i know

742
00:17:39,794 –> 00:17:39,995
[bruno_caron]: yeah

743
00:17:39,863 –> 00:17:43,141
[andy_panko]: the knowledge is there and i know
i could explain and

744
00:17:43,146 –> 00:17:43,247
[bruno_caron]: ah

745
00:17:43,262 –> 00:17:47,888
[andy_panko]: educate well even these technical concepts so
i thought a facebook group could be a

746
00:17:47,968 –> 00:17:48,208
[andy_panko]: great

747
00:17:48,496 –> 00:17:48,800
[paul_tyler]: yeah

748
00:17:48,588 –> 00:17:51,883
[andy_panko]: outlet for me to do that because
it’s this sort of

749
00:17:51,874 –> 00:17:52,324
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

750
00:17:52,084 –> 00:17:58,014
[andy_panko]: iterative collaborative people show up i’m there
you ask questions i answer blahblablah and that’s

751
00:17:58,034 –> 00:18:01,960
[andy_panko]: what happened so people would ask questions
about whatever roth conversions or me care or

752
00:18:02,020 –> 00:18:02,381
[andy_panko]: something

753
00:18:02,159 –> 00:18:02,199
[bruno_caron]: m

754
00:18:02,782 –> 00:18:02,942
[andy_panko]: and i

755
00:18:02,954 –> 00:18:02,975
[bruno_caron]: m

756
00:18:03,002 –> 00:18:07,469
[andy_panko]: would give this really long super thorough
detailed answer not crossing the line i’ve never

757
00:18:07,529 –> 00:18:09,653
[andy_panko]: given specific advice like i’m not recommending
investments

758
00:18:10,115 –> 00:18:10,715
[bruno_caron]: oh

759
00:18:10,414 –> 00:18:14,987
[andy_panko]: but answering questions about how taxation works
on this or that ther um

760
00:18:15,485 –> 00:18:16,145
[bruno_caron]: yeah

761
00:18:15,490 –> 00:18:16,656
[andy_panko]: that’s what i did and

762
00:18:17,536 –> 00:18:17,698
[paul_tyler]: ye

763
00:18:18,010 –> 00:18:22,397
[andy_panko]: people would frequently respond like wow he
that that was a quicker response than ever

764
00:18:22,437 –> 00:18:27,145
[andy_panko]: got from my adviser and be my
adviser doesn’t even know that and i’m like

765
00:18:27,746 –> 00:18:30,915
[andy_panko]: and i’m giving it away for free
and i’m so i’m on to something here

766
00:18:31,056 –> 00:18:32,604
[andy_panko]: and so people more more people kept

767
00:18:32,554 –> 00:18:33,514
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

768
00:18:32,645 –> 00:18:32,946
[andy_panko]: joining

769
00:18:33,815 –> 00:18:33,835
[bruno_caron]: m

770
00:18:34,050 –> 00:18:36,193
[andy_panko]: more more questions were asked me more
questions i answered

771
00:18:36,568 –> 00:18:36,629
[paul_tyler]: ah

772
00:18:37,055 –> 00:18:40,621
[andy_panko]: and i started doing live videos every
wednesday night at eight p m eastern in

773
00:18:41,442 –> 00:18:43,666
[andy_panko]: june twenty twenty about different topics

774
00:18:44,285 –> 00:18:44,305
[bruno_caron]: m

775
00:18:44,727 –> 00:18:45,729
[andy_panko]: now retirement related with a tax

776
00:18:45,777 –> 00:18:46,324
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

777
00:18:45,829 –> 00:18:48,021
[andy_panko]: book s and more

778
00:18:47,975 –> 00:18:48,319
[bruno_caron]: oh

779
00:18:48,101 –> 00:18:51,226
[andy_panko]: people started showing up live to watch
those that ask me live q and i’d

780
00:18:51,326 –> 00:18:51,607
[andy_panko]: answer on

781
00:18:51,635 –> 00:18:51,796
[bruno_caron]: oh

782
00:18:51,667 –> 00:18:56,495
[andy_panko]: the fly and i think that level
of engagement and just seeing people just randomly

783
00:18:56,555 –> 00:19:00,121
[andy_panko]: pepper me with questions and me knowing
most of the answers sometimes you no if

784
00:19:00,141 –> 00:19:00,802
[andy_panko]: i don’t i’ll tell them

785
00:19:01,385 –> 00:19:02,615
[bruno_caron]: yeah

786
00:19:01,724 –> 00:19:04,648
[andy_panko]: and just seeing my thought process and
how i articulate and elaborate and how i

787
00:19:04,729 –> 00:19:09,356
[andy_panko]: explain to anser your question that’s how
i got in front of people and because

788
00:19:09,416 –> 00:19:14,886
[andy_panko]: it’s facebook it’s got this national global
reach but it’s not bound by being in

789
00:19:14,926 –> 00:19:17,991
[andy_panko]: a certain geography or however many people
are you know butts and seeds at the

790
00:19:18,031 –> 00:19:22,238
[andy_panko]: library something i’m doing it’s facebook there’s
now thirty plus thousand people in this group

791
00:19:22,298 –> 00:19:24,601
[andy_panko]: and growing by the week so that’s
where

792
00:19:24,526 –> 00:19:25,756
[paul_tyler]: yeah

793
00:19:24,621 –> 00:19:25,882
[andy_panko]: i got my exposure and that was
a

794
00:19:25,906 –> 00:19:26,536
[paul_tyler]: oh

795
00:19:25,982 –> 00:19:29,165
[andy_panko]: perfect outlet for me in my strong
suits of

796
00:19:29,075 –> 00:19:29,418
[bruno_caron]: oh

797
00:19:29,605 –> 00:19:31,607
[andy_panko]: answering questions demonstrating what i know

798
00:19:32,465 –> 00:19:32,731
[bruno_caron]: yeah

799
00:19:32,487 –> 00:19:33,949
[andy_panko]: and just helping share information with

800
00:19:33,886 –> 00:19:34,329
[paul_tyler]: oh

801
00:19:34,009 –> 00:19:34,229
[andy_panko]: folks

802
00:19:34,566 –> 00:19:35,230
[ramsey_d_smith]: thirty thousand

803
00:19:35,676 –> 00:19:35,898
[paul_tyler]: okay

804
00:19:36,524 –> 00:19:36,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: well

805
00:19:36,614 –> 00:19:36,635
[bruno_caron]: m

806
00:19:36,741 –> 00:19:36,841
[andy_panko]: it’s

807
00:19:36,747 –> 00:19:36,949
[ramsey_d_smith]: done

808
00:19:36,861 –> 00:19:38,023
[andy_panko]: like thirty three but

809
00:19:38,056 –> 00:19:38,217
[paul_tyler]: yeah

810
00:19:38,063 –> 00:19:38,845
[andy_panko]: yeah who’s counting

811
00:19:38,875 –> 00:19:39,099
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

812
00:19:39,045 –> 00:19:39,205
[andy_panko]: yes

813
00:19:41,124 –> 00:19:41,444
[ramsey_d_smith]: bravo

814
00:19:41,138 –> 00:19:41,941
[paul_tyler]: okay so so

815
00:19:42,120 –> 00:19:42,320
[andy_panko]: yeah

816
00:19:42,202 –> 00:19:44,451
[paul_tyler]: so okay this kind of reframes every
okay

817
00:19:44,612 –> 00:19:44,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s

818
00:19:44,651 –> 00:19:44,772
[paul_tyler]: so

819
00:19:44,833 –> 00:19:46,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot there paul it there’s like

820
00:19:46,205 –> 00:19:46,386
[bruno_caron]: oh

821
00:19:46,276 –> 00:19:46,376
[paul_tyler]: so

822
00:19:46,958 –> 00:19:47,159
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s

823
00:19:47,158 –> 00:19:47,398
[paul_tyler]: story

824
00:19:47,219 –> 00:19:47,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: so many layers

825
00:19:47,618 –> 00:19:48,039
[paul_tyler]: about this

826
00:19:47,880 –> 00:19:51,429
[andy_panko]: uh

827
00:19:47,881 –> 00:19:48,181
[ramsey_d_smith]: to this

828
00:19:48,881 –> 00:19:51,665
[paul_tyler]: now now just to kind of level
because we talked a little bit about your

829
00:19:51,705 –> 00:19:52,607
[paul_tyler]: practice beforehand

830
00:19:52,414 –> 00:19:52,657
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

831
00:19:52,627 –> 00:19:53,548
[paul_tyler]: and you know i’ve seen you

832
00:19:53,555 –> 00:19:53,798
[bruno_caron]: oh

833
00:19:53,608 –> 00:19:54,891
[paul_tyler]: in there you know like kind of
interesting

834
00:19:54,690 –> 00:19:55,980
[andy_panko]: yeah

835
00:19:55,051 –> 00:19:56,032
[paul_tyler]: like on

836
00:19:56,015 –> 00:19:56,522
[bruno_caron]: my

837
00:19:56,093 –> 00:19:58,961
[paul_tyler]: linked in and you know i’m acting
linked in it’s kind of you get this

838
00:19:59,190 –> 00:19:59,431
[andy_panko]: yeah

839
00:19:59,202 –> 00:20:02,029
[paul_tyler]: sort of squirrel right in se your
name

840
00:20:01,983 –> 00:20:02,144
[andy_panko]: yeah

841
00:20:02,109 –> 00:20:04,252
[paul_tyler]: pop up and okay he’s in here
you know

842
00:20:04,355 –> 00:20:05,285
[bruno_caron]: oh

843
00:20:04,553 –> 00:20:07,959
[paul_tyler]: okay talk to sarah grillo you know
she’s been a couple of

844
00:20:07,940 –> 00:20:08,080
[andy_panko]: yeah

845
00:20:07,979 –> 00:20:08,359
[paul_tyler]: times i’ve

846
00:20:08,374 –> 00:20:08,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

847
00:20:08,379 –> 00:20:08,479
[paul_tyler]: seen

848
00:20:08,765 –> 00:20:08,966
[bruno_caron]: yeah

849
00:20:09,301 –> 00:20:09,481
[paul_tyler]: going

850
00:20:09,514 –> 00:20:09,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

851
00:20:09,521 –> 00:20:11,985
[paul_tyler]: back and forth on here so twenty
nineteen

852
00:20:11,794 –> 00:20:12,058
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

853
00:20:12,226 –> 00:20:14,820
[paul_tyler]: a pandemic hits you’re just starting your
practice

854
00:20:14,850 –> 00:20:15,091
[andy_panko]: yeah

855
00:20:14,900 –> 00:20:15,222
[paul_tyler]: correct

856
00:20:15,905 –> 00:20:16,146
[bruno_caron]: yeah

857
00:20:16,099 –> 00:20:16,200
[andy_panko]: yeah

858
00:20:16,328 –> 00:20:16,549
[paul_tyler]: okay

859
00:20:16,370 –> 00:20:16,532
[andy_panko]: yes

860
00:20:16,831 –> 00:20:18,338
[paul_tyler]: so now you get on

861
00:20:18,365 –> 00:20:18,995
[bruno_caron]: yeah

862
00:20:18,439 –> 00:20:18,982
[paul_tyler]: facebook

863
00:20:19,745 –> 00:20:21,665
[bruno_caron]: oh

864
00:20:19,806 –> 00:20:24,233
[paul_tyler]: build this thirty thousand thirty three thousand
member facebook

865
00:20:24,210 –> 00:20:25,320
[andy_panko]: yeah

866
00:20:24,293 –> 00:20:27,078
[paul_tyler]: page and now fast forward to twenty
twenty two

867
00:20:27,420 –> 00:20:27,704
[andy_panko]: yah

868
00:20:27,939 –> 00:20:28,961
[paul_tyler]: tell me this is correct you’re

869
00:20:29,855 –> 00:20:30,101
[bruno_caron]: oh

870
00:20:30,003 –> 00:20:31,385
[paul_tyler]: you’re charging eight thousand

871
00:20:31,050 –> 00:20:31,710
[andy_panko]: yeah

872
00:20:31,465 –> 00:20:34,857
[paul_tyler]: on bridge but eight or nine thousand
dollars per plan and you don’t you can’t

873
00:20:34,897 –> 00:20:36,221
[paul_tyler]: take any more clients is that

874
00:20:36,210 –> 00:20:37,320
[andy_panko]: oh

875
00:20:36,282 –> 00:20:36,603
[paul_tyler]: correct

876
00:20:37,572 –> 00:20:38,036
[andy_panko]: i don’t want to

877
00:20:38,104 –> 00:20:38,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

878
00:20:38,238 –> 00:20:40,695
[andy_panko]: take more clients so

879
00:20:42,076 –> 00:20:42,357
[paul_tyler]: yeah

880
00:20:44,224 –> 00:20:46,648
[andy_panko]: when when i set out had a
very clear goal of what

881
00:20:46,606 –> 00:20:47,626
[paul_tyler]: oh

882
00:20:46,688 –> 00:20:48,050
[andy_panko]: i wanted this business to look like

883
00:20:48,046 –> 00:20:48,066
[paul_tyler]: m

884
00:20:48,070 –> 00:20:51,035
[andy_panko]: what i wanted my personal life to
look like as it relates to the business

885
00:20:52,096 –> 00:20:52,756
[paul_tyler]: oh

886
00:20:52,117 –> 00:20:52,778
[andy_panko]: coming from

887
00:20:52,594 –> 00:20:52,977
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

888
00:20:53,239 –> 00:20:58,247
[andy_panko]: to deck it’s of the rat race
grind again big commute shackle to an office

889
00:20:58,728 –> 00:21:03,716
[andy_panko]: you know chair from eight to six
every day super stressful days i didn’t want

890
00:21:03,756 –> 00:21:08,105
[andy_panko]: that i wanted the antithesis of that
so i wanted to create a solo practice

891
00:21:08,385 –> 00:21:10,870
[andy_panko]: some would call it a lifestyle i’m
hesitant to use that word ecusetht

892
00:21:10,685 –> 00:21:10,988
[bruno_caron]: oh

893
00:21:10,910 –> 00:21:16,563
[andy_panko]: as negative connotations by people who don’t
understand what a lifestyle practice means lifestyle practice

894
00:21:16,603 –> 00:21:20,837
[andy_panko]: where i have forty to fifty clients
ongoing clients that

895
00:21:21,346 –> 00:21:22,276
[paul_tyler]: oh

896
00:21:21,750 –> 00:21:26,790
[andy_panko]: i like hopefully they like me hopefully
i serve well and that’s it

897
00:21:26,984 –> 00:21:27,005
[bruno_caron]: m

898
00:21:27,291 –> 00:21:29,895
[andy_panko]: you can do the math on the
money you know how much i’m grossing for

899
00:21:29,915 –> 00:21:30,697
[andy_panko]: that many clients

900
00:21:30,514 –> 00:21:30,899
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

901
00:21:30,757 –> 00:21:33,041
[andy_panko]: and my expenses are about thirty grand
all in

902
00:21:33,665 –> 00:21:33,685
[bruno_caron]: m

903
00:21:33,942 –> 00:21:40,333
[andy_panko]: so i’m making plenty good enough money
i enjoy what i do i’m not overburden

904
00:21:40,393 –> 00:21:43,799
[andy_panko]: distress there’s a handful of times throughout
the year i do semi annual meeting so

905
00:21:43,879 –> 00:21:46,203
[andy_panko]: in those months that i do my
my meeting cluster

906
00:21:45,995 –> 00:21:46,835
[bruno_caron]: yeah

907
00:21:46,283 –> 00:21:48,587
[andy_panko]: together i’m busier then than otherwise

908
00:21:49,085 –> 00:21:49,105
[bruno_caron]: m

909
00:21:49,588 –> 00:21:50,370
[andy_panko]: but i have very

910
00:21:50,354 –> 00:21:50,375
[bruno_caron]: m

911
00:21:50,490 –> 00:21:55,876
[andy_panko]: flexible good life good work life balance
i enjoy my personal life my professional life

912
00:21:55,956 –> 00:21:59,242
[andy_panko]: i get paid plenty well enough you
know i’m not motivated by money be nice

913
00:21:59,302 –> 00:22:03,128
[andy_panko]: if people gave me more but that’s
not what i’m out for so i don’t

914
00:22:03,228 –> 00:22:05,741
[andy_panko]: want more clint i can accommodate another

915
00:22:06,916 –> 00:22:08,326
[paul_tyler]: oh

916
00:22:07,330 –> 00:22:10,235
[andy_panko]: and you know if i wanted to
but i’m cool where i’m at i got

917
00:22:10,295 –> 00:22:14,281
[andy_panko]: forty five clients it’s another two or
three suspect will trickle in over the next

918
00:22:14,321 –> 00:22:17,527
[andy_panko]: handful of months people that i’ve had
calls and talks with over the past year

919
00:22:18,508 –> 00:22:20,432
[andy_panko]: if they do great they don’t i’m
still

920
00:22:20,285 –> 00:22:20,548
[bruno_caron]: oh

921
00:22:20,452 –> 00:22:22,796
[andy_panko]: all right so so i’m good like
my business is

922
00:22:22,737 –> 00:22:22,960
[paul_tyler]: okay

923
00:22:22,816 –> 00:22:23,296
[andy_panko]: done growing

924
00:22:23,284 –> 00:22:23,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

925
00:22:23,897 –> 00:22:27,003
[andy_panko]: i know what it takes to hire
to grow and i know one that’s a

926
00:22:27,063 –> 00:22:27,944
[andy_panko]: bell that can’t be un wrong

927
00:22:28,084 –> 00:22:28,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

928
00:22:28,185 –> 00:22:32,752
[andy_panko]: once you hire people you then need
to give them focus and career development and

929
00:22:32,812 –> 00:22:38,341
[andy_panko]: motivation and at track and you know
increasing wages throughout time me i do flat

930
00:22:38,402 –> 00:22:42,228
[andy_panko]: fee if i lose a client and
i lose nine grand of revenue i’m okay

931
00:22:42,408 –> 00:22:45,994
[andy_panko]: right i don’t feel to back vill
if i have employees i can’t have

932
00:22:45,957 –> 00:22:46,038
[bruno_caron]: ah

933
00:22:46,014 –> 00:22:49,660
[andy_panko]: that attitude like then it needs to
be about money to some extent because i

934
00:22:49,720 –> 00:22:54,128
[andy_panko]: need to pay them and so make
myself something in return so i’m just at

935
00:22:54,148 –> 00:22:57,701
[andy_panko]: this point i don’t want to hire
it out grow i’m freely giving away all

936
00:22:57,721 –> 00:23:01,225
[andy_panko]: additional prospects right on my business website
i have a list of referrals to like

937
00:23:01,265 –> 00:23:04,168
[andy_panko]: twenty five other advisors who are all
flat fee retirement focused

938
00:23:04,364 –> 00:23:04,485
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

939
00:23:04,928 –> 00:23:05,409
[andy_panko]: just freely

940
00:23:06,305 –> 00:23:06,669
[bruno_caron]: oh

941
00:23:06,520 –> 00:23:10,907
[andy_panko]: i have this big funnel of prospects
and people finding me through facebook through youtube

942
00:23:10,947 –> 00:23:15,675
[andy_panko]: now as well but i’m close to
business so here you go i’m just giving

943
00:23:15,695 –> 00:23:18,462
[andy_panko]: them away to other folks who are
on this flat fee journey yeah

944
00:23:18,446 –> 00:23:19,527
[paul_tyler]: okay i’m gonna give bruno

945
00:23:19,357 –> 00:23:19,479
[andy_panko]: yeah

946
00:23:19,607 –> 00:23:19,908
[paul_tyler]: a chance

947
00:23:19,770 –> 00:23:20,093
[andy_panko]: yeah

948
00:23:19,948 –> 00:23:21,971
[paul_tyler]: here in a second so i just
got just to so

949
00:23:22,145 –> 00:23:22,347
[bruno_caron]: yeah

950
00:23:22,680 –> 00:23:22,881
[andy_panko]: yeah

951
00:23:22,833 –> 00:23:27,809
[paul_tyler]: people think facebook hey who’s selling you
know

952
00:23:28,633 –> 00:23:28,796
[andy_panko]: yeah

953
00:23:28,911 –> 00:23:29,532
[paul_tyler]: on facebook i’m

954
00:23:29,550 –> 00:23:29,812
[andy_panko]: yeah

955
00:23:29,612 –> 00:23:31,936
[paul_tyler]: selling stretch pants what’s the company

956
00:23:31,865 –> 00:23:32,674
[bruno_caron]: uh

957
00:23:32,016 –> 00:23:33,639
[paul_tyler]: that had a netflix documentary

958
00:23:33,570 –> 00:23:33,853
[andy_panko]: spanks

959
00:23:33,699 –> 00:23:34,721
[paul_tyler]: about it now

960
00:23:34,860 –> 00:23:35,081
[andy_panko]: oh

961
00:23:34,901 –> 00:23:34,961
[paul_tyler]: it

962
00:23:34,996 –> 00:23:35,157
[bruno_caron]: hah

963
00:23:35,041 –> 00:23:35,201
[paul_tyler]: was

964
00:23:35,314 –> 00:23:35,334
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

965
00:23:36,240 –> 00:23:36,526
[andy_panko]: oh

966
00:23:36,303 –> 00:23:36,624
[paul_tyler]: lulu

967
00:23:36,541 –> 00:23:36,964
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

968
00:23:37,385 –> 00:23:37,673
[bruno_caron]: yeah

969
00:23:37,400 –> 00:23:37,821
[andy_panko]: lu lemon

970
00:23:37,735 –> 00:23:37,996
[ramsey_d_smith]: luther

971
00:23:38,006 –> 00:23:38,106
[paul_tyler]: no

972
00:23:38,057 –> 00:23:38,358
[ramsey_d_smith]: lemon

973
00:23:38,522 –> 00:23:38,763
[andy_panko]: yes

974
00:23:39,027 –> 00:23:41,450
[paul_tyler]: was it lulu no it’s it’s it’s

975
00:23:41,405 –> 00:23:41,607
[bruno_caron]: oh

976
00:23:41,651 –> 00:23:42,672
[paul_tyler]: it’s somehnghat sounds like that

977
00:23:42,570 –> 00:23:43,470
[andy_panko]: yeah

978
00:23:42,752 –> 00:23:43,553
[paul_tyler]: but it’s it’s like a

979
00:23:44,950 –> 00:23:45,955
[andy_panko]: multi level lula ro

980
00:23:45,956 –> 00:23:46,176
[paul_tyler]: level

981
00:23:46,094 –> 00:23:46,115
[bruno_caron]: m

982
00:23:46,597 –> 00:23:47,599
[paul_tyler]: lulu row right

983
00:23:47,650 –> 00:23:48,439
[andy_panko]: yes okay yeah

984
00:23:48,681 –> 00:23:48,901
[paul_tyler]: okay

985
00:23:48,827 –> 00:23:48,968
[bruno_caron]: wow

986
00:23:49,422 –> 00:23:50,444
[paul_tyler]: people seen facebook

987
00:23:50,217 –> 00:23:50,237
[bruno_caron]: a

988
00:23:50,250 –> 00:23:50,493
[andy_panko]: oh

989
00:23:50,564 –> 00:23:52,807
[paul_tyler]: live i think lulu ro but

990
00:23:53,174 –> 00:23:53,236
[andy_panko]: ah

991
00:23:53,228 –> 00:23:53,388
[paul_tyler]: yet

992
00:23:53,405 –> 00:23:54,485
[bruno_caron]: oh

993
00:23:53,509 –> 00:23:55,272
[paul_tyler]: you like did

994
00:23:55,230 –> 00:23:56,310
[andy_panko]: yeah

995
00:23:55,237 –> 00:23:55,257
[bruno_caron]: m

996
00:23:55,332 –> 00:23:56,053
[paul_tyler]: most of your clients

997
00:23:56,134 –> 00:23:56,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

998
00:23:56,153 –> 00:24:00,160
[paul_tyler]: find you through facebook or did they
find them from people on facebook who recommended

999
00:24:00,240 –> 00:24:00,340
[paul_tyler]: you

1000
00:24:00,390 –> 00:24:01,080
[andy_panko]: my

1001
00:24:00,420 –> 00:24:04,126
[paul_tyler]: and is there anything in common with
these people like geography

1002
00:24:03,737 –> 00:24:03,902
[bruno_caron]: yes

1003
00:24:04,507 –> 00:24:05,509
[paul_tyler]: or are they just tell

1004
00:24:05,375 –> 00:24:05,597
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1005
00:24:05,569 –> 00:24:05,949
[paul_tyler]: us kind of

1006
00:24:05,940 –> 00:24:07,890
[andy_panko]: yah

1007
00:24:06,070 –> 00:24:08,153
[paul_tyler]: like what does your cantal generally

1008
00:24:08,135 –> 00:24:08,402
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1009
00:24:08,193 –> 00:24:08,614
[paul_tyler]: look like

1010
00:24:09,215 –> 00:24:09,235
[bruno_caron]: m

1011
00:24:09,832 –> 00:24:13,458
[andy_panko]: um yes the vast majority of the
forty five clients i

1012
00:24:13,474 –> 00:24:13,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1013
00:24:13,559 –> 00:24:15,322
[andy_panko]: have found me through facebook

1014
00:24:15,706 –> 00:24:16,207
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1015
00:24:16,904 –> 00:24:20,811
[andy_panko]: some aren’t on facebook and they found
me through youtube because a lot of videos

1016
00:24:20,871 –> 00:24:24,799
[andy_panko]: i did weekly on facebook i dropped
the re plays on to my youtube channel

1017
00:24:24,939 –> 00:24:28,967
[andy_panko]: after the fact so some people have
two clients i found three that found me

1018
00:24:28,987 –> 00:24:34,380
[andy_panko]: through youtube i’m also a you’re familiar
it roger

1019
00:24:34,415 –> 00:24:34,656
[bruno_caron]: oh

1020
00:24:34,421 –> 00:24:36,723
[andy_panko]: whitney av you heard of him the
retirement answer man podcast

1021
00:24:36,926 –> 00:24:37,027
[paul_tyler]: no

1022
00:24:36,964 –> 00:24:37,144
[andy_panko]: okay

1023
00:24:37,865 –> 00:24:37,885
[bruno_caron]: m

1024
00:24:37,891 –> 00:24:38,404
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1025
00:24:37,985 –> 00:24:43,812
[andy_panko]: he’s got a really large retirement podcast
he’s got a paid membership group called the

1026
00:24:43,833 –> 00:24:46,076
[andy_panko]: rock retirement club where i’m

1027
00:24:46,055 –> 00:24:46,256
[bruno_caron]: yes

1028
00:24:46,196 –> 00:24:50,624
[andy_panko]: one of the sort of adjuncts slash
coaches in there so some of the members

1029
00:24:50,664 –> 00:24:51,065
[andy_panko]: from there

1030
00:24:51,244 –> 00:24:51,450
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1031
00:24:52,186 –> 00:24:55,093
[andy_panko]: have ultimately hired me but otherwise

1032
00:24:55,114 –> 00:24:56,194
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1033
00:24:55,133 –> 00:24:56,236
[andy_panko]: yeah i mean facebook really

1034
00:24:56,255 –> 00:24:56,516
[bruno_caron]: oh

1035
00:24:56,437 –> 00:24:58,344
[andy_panko]: is the nexus of

1036
00:24:58,336 –> 00:24:58,584
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1037
00:24:58,405 –> 00:24:59,955
[andy_panko]: where all my business and exposure came
from

1038
00:24:59,855 –> 00:25:00,117
[bruno_caron]: oh

1039
00:25:00,536 –> 00:25:01,380
[paul_tyler]: wow bruno

1040
00:25:03,066 –> 00:25:03,466
[bruno_caron]: wonderful

1041
00:25:03,378 –> 00:25:03,540
[andy_panko]: right

1042
00:25:03,475 –> 00:25:03,496
[paul_tyler]: m

1043
00:25:04,348 –> 00:25:04,708
[bruno_caron]: yeah i know

1044
00:25:04,816 –> 00:25:05,476
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1045
00:25:04,989 –> 00:25:06,451
[bruno_caron]: well well done and

1046
00:25:06,436 –> 00:25:06,578
[paul_tyler]: ye

1047
00:25:06,531 –> 00:25:06,712
[bruno_caron]: that’s

1048
00:25:06,750 –> 00:25:06,972
[andy_panko]: thank you

1049
00:25:07,453 –> 00:25:14,805
[bruno_caron]: that’s great i want to take the
discussion where in a place where a lot

1050
00:25:14,825 –> 00:25:18,211
[bruno_caron]: of people don’t don’t focus too much
don’t talk about too much

1051
00:25:18,630 –> 00:25:18,914
[andy_panko]: yeah

1052
00:25:19,092 –> 00:25:22,318
[bruno_caron]: you know in the context of retirement
and planning longevity

1053
00:25:22,141 –> 00:25:22,282
[andy_panko]: yeah

1054
00:25:22,919 –> 00:25:23,219
[bruno_caron]: and that’s

1055
00:25:23,203 –> 00:25:23,224
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1056
00:25:23,380 –> 00:25:28,869
[bruno_caron]: bequest like how do you how do
you view bequest how do you advise your

1057
00:25:28,949 –> 00:25:31,012
[bruno_caron]: clients on bequest you advise them

1058
00:25:31,003 –> 00:25:31,126
[andy_panko]: yeah

1059
00:25:31,072 –> 00:25:33,597
[bruno_caron]: on having having a certain goal

1060
00:25:33,480 –> 00:25:33,723
[andy_panko]: oh

1061
00:25:33,837 –> 00:25:35,460
[bruno_caron]: or just be that

1062
00:25:35,505 –> 00:25:35,669
[andy_panko]: yeah

1063
00:25:35,660 –> 00:25:36,501
[bruno_caron]: that wild

1064
00:25:36,334 –> 00:25:36,555
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1065
00:25:36,580 –> 00:25:36,681
[andy_panko]: oh

1066
00:25:36,582 –> 00:25:38,966
[bruno_caron]: card that is out there um

1067
00:25:38,760 –> 00:25:39,084
[andy_panko]: oh

1068
00:25:39,226 –> 00:25:39,466
[bruno_caron]: you know

1069
00:25:40,024 –> 00:25:40,224
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1070
00:25:40,288 –> 00:25:40,789
[bruno_caron]: my follow up

1071
00:25:40,764 –> 00:25:40,867
[andy_panko]: oh

1072
00:25:40,829 –> 00:25:44,635
[bruno_caron]: is definitely going to be on you
know you know on the tax consequences and

1073
00:25:44,935 –> 00:25:45,817
[bruno_caron]: how do you strategize

1074
00:25:45,812 –> 00:25:46,014
[andy_panko]: sure

1075
00:25:45,897 –> 00:25:48,782
[bruno_caron]: there just conceptually how

1076
00:25:48,840 –> 00:25:49,022
[andy_panko]: oh

1077
00:25:48,842 –> 00:25:53,408
[bruno_caron]: does that conversation go you’re your clients
and and there

1078
00:25:53,510 –> 00:25:53,690
[andy_panko]: eh

1079
00:25:53,668 –> 00:25:58,613
[bruno_caron]: there you know they’re their desires towards
towards bequest

1080
00:25:58,619 –> 00:26:01,456
[andy_panko]: what towards legacy planning and leaving people
stuff

1081
00:26:01,936 –> 00:26:02,159
[paul_tyler]: oh

1082
00:26:02,660 –> 00:26:02,840
[andy_panko]: uh

1083
00:26:02,776 –> 00:26:03,337
[bruno_caron]: or or not

1084
00:26:03,304 –> 00:26:03,525
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1085
00:26:03,457 –> 00:26:04,340
[bruno_caron]: i’m not saying that you

1086
00:26:04,365 –> 00:26:04,545
[andy_panko]: right

1087
00:26:04,400 –> 00:26:06,485
[bruno_caron]: know they should or not but you
know how

1088
00:26:06,454 –> 00:26:07,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1089
00:26:06,525 –> 00:26:07,528
[bruno_caron]: does that conversation go

1090
00:26:08,370 –> 00:26:10,153
[andy_panko]: i find a lot of it or
not actually

1091
00:26:10,054 –> 00:26:10,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1092
00:26:10,974 –> 00:26:15,301
[andy_panko]: maybe it’s coincidence but when i meet
with people even as part of the prospect

1093
00:26:15,361 –> 00:26:19,889
[andy_panko]: process one of th things i ask
because you have any legacy goals you now

1094
00:26:19,949 –> 00:26:26,861
[andy_panko]: design eres requirements to leave money to
family friends charities whatever and vast majority of

1095
00:26:26,881 –> 00:26:30,787
[andy_panko]: my clients the answer is no it’s
like my primary goal is to not run

1096
00:26:30,907 –> 00:26:31,809
[andy_panko]: out whatever i have left

1097
00:26:31,895 –> 00:26:32,118
[bruno_caron]: oh

1098
00:26:31,989 –> 00:26:34,614
[andy_panko]: great my kids can have it or
you know i leave it to a charity

1099
00:26:35,796 –> 00:26:37,458
[andy_panko]: i only have a few

1100
00:26:37,625 –> 00:26:37,870
[bruno_caron]: oh

1101
00:26:37,739 –> 00:26:44,049
[andy_panko]: clients of my forty five where there
is some sort of meaningful legacy or questo

1102
00:26:44,250 –> 00:26:44,430
[andy_panko]: with

1103
00:26:44,285 –> 00:26:44,975
[bruno_caron]: oh

1104
00:26:44,550 –> 00:26:46,452
[andy_panko]: whatever i know who’re talking about but
you know leaving

1105
00:26:46,325 –> 00:26:46,647
[bruno_caron]: legacy

1106
00:26:46,632 –> 00:26:47,032
[andy_panko]: leaving money

1107
00:26:46,903 –> 00:26:46,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1108
00:26:47,132 –> 00:26:50,596
[andy_panko]: like i say yeah one of them
is a special needs case where they have

1109
00:26:50,636 –> 00:26:53,859
[andy_panko]: a second to die life insurance policy
that’s going to fund a special needs trust

1110
00:26:55,421 –> 00:27:00,028
[andy_panko]: another one is charitably inclined and we
worked to set up a downer advise fund

1111
00:27:00,088 –> 00:27:03,113
[andy_panko]: as part of it and that really
legacy a hat’s given away money during life

1112
00:27:03,214 –> 00:27:07,220
[andy_panko]: but i really don’t have a lot
now i guess

1113
00:27:07,426 –> 00:27:07,689
[paul_tyler]: yes

1114
00:27:07,501 –> 00:27:10,446
[andy_panko]: if someone did have a strong burning
desire you know there a few

1115
00:27:10,366 –> 00:27:10,386
[paul_tyler]: m

1116
00:27:10,526 –> 00:27:13,591
[andy_panko]: things you can do you can do
like you know cash value life our whole

1117
00:27:13,611 –> 00:27:17,537
[andy_panko]: life policy to make sure it’s there
you can simply just ear mark it put

1118
00:27:17,718 –> 00:27:20,403
[andy_panko]: an account that you don’t touch kind
of take it out of the financial planning

1119
00:27:20,443 –> 00:27:22,266
[andy_panko]: considerations um

1120
00:27:24,403 –> 00:27:24,566
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1121
00:27:24,730 –> 00:27:26,240
[andy_panko]: i mean those are the main ones
i suppose

1122
00:27:27,435 –> 00:27:33,085
[bruno_caron]: so basically you come up with a
dynamic where you know if people are you

1123
00:27:33,125 –> 00:27:33,806
[bruno_caron]: know retiring

1124
00:27:34,530 –> 00:27:34,755
[andy_panko]: yeah

1125
00:27:35,088 –> 00:27:35,930
[bruno_caron]: if they die very

1126
00:27:35,692 –> 00:27:35,773
[andy_panko]: no

1127
00:27:36,090 –> 00:27:38,554
[bruno_caron]: early they’ll leave you know significant

1128
00:27:39,076 –> 00:27:39,217
[andy_panko]: yeah

1129
00:27:39,295 –> 00:27:44,364
[bruno_caron]: um significant legacy behind them and if
they die

1130
00:27:44,380 –> 00:27:44,521
[andy_panko]: so

1131
00:27:44,684 –> 00:27:45,866
[bruno_caron]: very late they may leave

1132
00:27:46,756 –> 00:27:46,776
[paul_tyler]: m

1133
00:27:46,928 –> 00:27:47,248
[bruno_caron]: nothing

1134
00:27:47,246 –> 00:27:47,326
[andy_panko]: no

1135
00:27:47,570 –> 00:27:47,590
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

1136
00:27:48,390 –> 00:27:49,352
[bruno_caron]: and you know

1137
00:27:49,461 –> 00:27:49,523
[andy_panko]: you

1138
00:27:49,552 –> 00:27:49,733
[bruno_caron]: there’s

1139
00:27:49,564 –> 00:27:49,666
[andy_panko]: know

1140
00:27:50,113 –> 00:27:59,344
[bruno_caron]: a major gap there and that’s you
know that’s generally an accepted way of planning

1141
00:27:59,545 –> 00:27:59,905
[bruno_caron]: and that’s

1142
00:28:00,600 –> 00:28:00,801
[andy_panko]: oh

1143
00:28:01,408 –> 00:28:01,989
[bruno_caron]: to your point

1144
00:28:01,808 –> 00:28:01,929
[andy_panko]: yeah

1145
00:28:02,029 –> 00:28:06,857
[bruno_caron]: i think you mentioned you certainly never
want to leave negative bequest where

1146
00:28:07,250 –> 00:28:07,393
[andy_panko]: right

1147
00:28:07,418 –> 00:28:09,962
[bruno_caron]: you know that would essentially be running
out of money

1148
00:28:09,865 –> 00:28:09,886
[paul_tyler]: m

1149
00:28:10,303 –> 00:28:15,712
[bruno_caron]: and just you know be a burden
for for your kids but m but that’s

1150
00:28:15,772 –> 00:28:15,896
[andy_panko]: that

1151
00:28:15,892 –> 00:28:17,837
[bruno_caron]: that’s that’s typically the general

1152
00:28:18,450 –> 00:28:19,320
[andy_panko]: yah

1153
00:28:20,477 –> 00:28:20,921
[bruno_caron]: the general

1154
00:28:20,901 –> 00:28:21,062
[andy_panko]: yeah

1155
00:28:21,002 –> 00:28:21,427
[bruno_caron]: dynamic

1156
00:28:21,094 –> 00:28:22,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1157
00:28:21,487 –> 00:28:23,345
[bruno_caron]: there oh

1158
00:28:22,504 –> 00:28:27,973
[andy_panko]: and it also depends how passionate people
feel about leaving money so there’s also you

1159
00:28:28,033 –> 00:28:33,241
[andy_panko]: mentioned tax planning considerations around this some
people don’t

1160
00:28:33,185 –> 00:28:33,528
[bruno_caron]: oh

1161
00:28:33,281 –> 00:28:36,725
[andy_panko]: care about taxes or like if i
die and leave a two million dollar fully

1162
00:28:36,805 –> 00:28:40,149
[andy_panko]: taxable i a o my kid who’s
already in the thirty seven percent tax bracket

1163
00:28:41,360 –> 00:28:43,744
[andy_panko]: for him or her like so we
let them pay the tax right they’re getting

1164
00:28:43,764 –> 00:28:47,230
[andy_panko]: something he didn’t have to start with
so i don’t care i’ll be gone other

1165
00:28:47,290 –> 00:28:47,570
[andy_panko]: folks

1166
00:28:47,405 –> 00:28:47,651
[bruno_caron]: oh

1167
00:28:47,831 –> 00:28:50,635
[andy_panko]: do do have this inherent desire to
sort of stick it to the man a

1168
00:28:50,655 –> 00:28:55,324
[andy_panko]: little bit you stick it to uncle
sam and they do have more consideration for

1169
00:28:56,206 –> 00:29:00,014
[andy_panko]: tax efficiency of wealth transfer so for
example if they know they have

1170
00:28:59,884 –> 00:29:00,574
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1171
00:29:00,154 –> 00:29:01,257
[andy_panko]: more money than they’re ever going

1172
00:29:01,204 –> 00:29:01,834
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1173
00:29:01,297 –> 00:29:01,958
[andy_panko]: to spend down

1174
00:29:02,524 –> 00:29:02,747
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1175
00:29:03,160 –> 00:29:03,581
[andy_panko]: and they know

1176
00:29:03,665 –> 00:29:03,909
[bruno_caron]: oh

1177
00:29:03,821 –> 00:29:06,065
[andy_panko]: a lot of it’s going to go
to their kid and let’s say their kids

1178
00:29:06,105 –> 00:29:07,948
[andy_panko]: a starving artist um

1179
00:29:07,805 –> 00:29:08,915
[bruno_caron]: oh

1180
00:29:08,529 –> 00:29:12,876
[andy_panko]: then in that case if they have
like tax for ira money they’ll probably leave

1181
00:29:12,936 –> 00:29:13,237
[andy_panko]: it to

1182
00:29:13,274 –> 00:29:13,295
[bruno_caron]: m

1183
00:29:13,277 –> 00:29:16,462
[andy_panko]: the kid let the kid pay taxes
because the kid will pay taxes than the

1184
00:29:16,502 –> 00:29:19,127
[andy_panko]: client would during during their life or
vice

1185
00:29:19,145 –> 00:29:19,349
[bruno_caron]: oh

1186
00:29:19,167 –> 00:29:21,350
[andy_panko]: versa going back to the example of
the kids

1187
00:29:22,205 –> 00:29:22,490
[bruno_caron]: oh

1188
00:29:22,212 –> 00:29:24,335
[andy_panko]: you know high earning doctor always

1189
00:29:24,313 –> 00:29:24,334
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1190
00:29:24,355 –> 00:29:28,422
[andy_panko]: going to be a top tax rate
the client parents are in the twenty two

1191
00:29:28,482 –> 00:29:34,412
[andy_panko]: percent federal bracket let’s say and they
are concerned about maximizing the net after tax

1192
00:29:34,532 –> 00:29:35,754
[andy_panko]: amount of what’s left to the kid

1193
00:29:35,986 –> 00:29:36,006
[paul_tyler]: m

1194
00:29:36,355 –> 00:29:36,936
[andy_panko]: then we

1195
00:29:36,987 –> 00:29:37,595
[bruno_caron]: right

1196
00:29:37,017 –> 00:29:40,421
[andy_panko]: talk more about conversions let the cl
t pay taxes on the money in life

1197
00:29:40,501 –> 00:29:42,963
[andy_panko]: even to her not going to need
it let them pay taxes

1198
00:29:42,625 –> 00:29:42,646
[paul_tyler]: m

1199
00:29:43,084 –> 00:29:46,026
[andy_panko]: on it so it’s all in a
rath so when they die that ruth then

1200
00:29:46,146 –> 00:29:49,069
[andy_panko]: goes tax free to the child and
in the high tax bracket

1201
00:29:49,285 –> 00:29:49,426
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1202
00:29:49,640 –> 00:29:49,680
[andy_panko]: so

1203
00:29:49,677 –> 00:29:49,841
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1204
00:29:49,720 –> 00:29:50,381
[andy_panko]: it really all depends

1205
00:29:50,224 –> 00:29:50,487
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1206
00:29:50,421 –> 00:29:52,746
[andy_panko]: on clients circumstances and their emotions and
views towards

1207
00:29:52,804 –> 00:29:53,045
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1208
00:29:52,806 –> 00:29:53,207
[andy_panko]: taxes

1209
00:29:53,706 –> 00:29:55,589
[paul_tyler]: okay he just switching gears

1210
00:29:55,530 –> 00:29:56,340
[andy_panko]: yes

1211
00:29:55,629 –> 00:29:55,669
[paul_tyler]: a

1212
00:29:55,694 –> 00:29:55,715
[bruno_caron]: m

1213
00:29:55,709 –> 00:29:57,993
[paul_tyler]: little bit so on stand the noting
man’s

1214
00:29:57,879 –> 00:29:57,900
[andy_panko]: m

1215
00:29:58,293 –> 00:29:58,734
[paul_tyler]: podcast

1216
00:29:58,985 –> 00:29:59,915
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1217
00:29:59,075 –> 00:29:59,796
[paul_tyler]: stands sounds

1218
00:29:59,813 –> 00:29:59,874
[andy_panko]: ah

1219
00:29:59,856 –> 00:30:01,058
[paul_tyler]: great and full disclosure he’s

1220
00:30:01,084 –> 00:30:01,834
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1221
00:30:01,118 –> 00:30:03,582
[paul_tyler]: actually one of our business partners he’s
great and we appreciate

1222
00:30:03,334 –> 00:30:03,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1223
00:30:04,003 –> 00:30:04,604
[paul_tyler]: business we’ve done

1224
00:30:04,745 –> 00:30:04,967
[bruno_caron]: oh

1225
00:30:04,824 –> 00:30:06,307
[paul_tyler]: with our care with him try to

1226
00:30:06,293 –> 00:30:06,395
[andy_panko]: ah

1227
00:30:06,327 –> 00:30:06,928
[paul_tyler]: get him on the anuity

1228
00:30:06,844 –> 00:30:07,112
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1229
00:30:07,008 –> 00:30:07,469
[paul_tyler]: show he

1230
00:30:07,620 –> 00:30:07,781
[andy_panko]: ye

1231
00:30:07,749 –> 00:30:08,871
[paul_tyler]: has yet to accept the

1232
00:30:08,970 –> 00:30:09,291
[andy_panko]: yeah

1233
00:30:08,971 –> 00:30:09,211
[paul_tyler]: offer

1234
00:30:09,814 –> 00:30:10,954
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1235
00:30:10,534 –> 00:30:12,036
[paul_tyler]: where does annuities fit with your client

1236
00:30:11,907 –> 00:30:12,008
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1237
00:30:12,076 –> 00:30:13,398
[paul_tyler]: hell are they too young

1238
00:30:14,070 –> 00:30:15,360
[andy_panko]: yeah

1239
00:30:14,080 –> 00:30:18,408
[paul_tyler]: do you have any strong feelings about
annuities if you were going to sell them

1240
00:30:18,570 –> 00:30:18,817
[andy_panko]: yeah

1241
00:30:19,372 –> 00:30:19,893
[paul_tyler]: or offer

1242
00:30:19,761 –> 00:30:19,922
[andy_panko]: yeah

1243
00:30:19,934 –> 00:30:22,161
[paul_tyler]: them to clients what would they look
like you know what’s

1244
00:30:22,020 –> 00:30:22,710
[andy_panko]: yeah

1245
00:30:22,181 –> 00:30:22,784
[paul_tyler]: the criteria

1246
00:30:23,510 –> 00:30:26,454
[andy_panko]: yep it all depends like an annuity

1247
00:30:26,554 –> 00:30:26,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1248
00:30:26,555 –> 00:30:30,261
[andy_panko]: like anything is a tool sometimes it
makes sense sometimes it doesn’t i

1249
00:30:30,334 –> 00:30:30,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1250
00:30:30,822 –> 00:30:33,947
[andy_panko]: definitely i feel my view of retirement
planning

1251
00:30:33,695 –> 00:30:34,955
[bruno_caron]: oh

1252
00:30:34,147 –> 00:30:38,275
[andy_panko]: is sort of best of both worlds
using we weigh file speak there’s a probability

1253
00:30:38,315 –> 00:30:41,601
[andy_panko]: based approach there’s a safety first approach
where

1254
00:30:41,555 –> 00:30:42,215
[bruno_caron]: oh

1255
00:30:41,661 –> 00:30:43,966
[andy_panko]: safety first is lock up you know
your

1256
00:30:43,925 –> 00:30:44,208
[bruno_caron]: oh

1257
00:30:44,026 –> 00:30:49,516
[andy_panko]: income through annuities maybe to a lesser
extent cashed by a life insurance probability based

1258
00:30:49,556 –> 00:30:54,444
[andy_panko]: as puragistlike let the markets do their
thing some people lean really hard in their

1259
00:30:55,085 –> 00:30:59,235
[andy_panko]: views and preferences towards one of the
clients i mean towards towards the other some

1260
00:30:59,295 –> 00:30:59,697
[andy_panko]: people like

1261
00:30:59,605 –> 00:30:59,626
[paul_tyler]: m

1262
00:30:59,737 –> 00:31:01,825
[andy_panko]: tell me whatever i should do that
that’s best for me

1263
00:31:02,284 –> 00:31:02,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1264
00:31:03,200 –> 00:31:06,323
[andy_panko]: i try to be pragmatic about it
i don’t sell insurance that was a conscious

1265
00:31:06,363 –> 00:31:08,846
[andy_panko]: decision i am the only it’s not

1266
00:31:08,746 –> 00:31:08,786
[bruno_caron]: m

1267
00:31:08,906 –> 00:31:10,167
[andy_panko]: because i don’t think insurance

1268
00:31:10,094 –> 00:31:10,115
[bruno_caron]: m

1269
00:31:10,207 –> 00:31:12,590
[andy_panko]: products are important it’s just me and

1270
00:31:12,605 –> 00:31:12,625
[bruno_caron]: m

1271
00:31:12,650 –> 00:31:18,676
[andy_panko]: my beliefs i want to have that
distinction between the advice giver and the one

1272
00:31:18,736 –> 00:31:21,339
[andy_panko]: who consummates the sale i’m not

1273
00:31:22,085 –> 00:31:22,367
[bruno_caron]: oh

1274
00:31:22,100 –> 00:31:25,245
[andy_panko]: literally or demonizing people who do one
versus the other but that’s my approach towards

1275
00:31:25,234 –> 00:31:25,477
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1276
00:31:25,285 –> 00:31:25,485
[andy_panko]: things

1277
00:31:25,685 –> 00:31:26,525
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1278
00:31:26,327 –> 00:31:30,253
[andy_panko]: but realizing insurance products are important what
i’ve done is there are some folks

1279
00:31:30,275 –> 00:31:30,295
[bruno_caron]: m

1280
00:31:30,794 –> 00:31:33,679
[andy_panko]: i work with who are agents for
annuities or life

1281
00:31:33,785 –> 00:31:34,048
[bruno_caron]: yes

1282
00:31:34,100 –> 00:31:38,966
[andy_panko]: on some fee only platform such as
lincoln has one younowdplhas

1283
00:31:37,735 –> 00:31:37,756
[paul_tyler]: m

1284
00:31:39,146 –> 00:31:44,204
[andy_panko]: one um so if and when the
time comes where i feel either

1285
00:31:44,285 –> 00:31:44,548
[bruno_caron]: yes

1286
00:31:44,384 –> 00:31:47,669
[andy_panko]: a lifepeners product or annuity is in
the best interest client i have folks i

1287
00:31:47,710 –> 00:31:51,556
[andy_panko]: can reach out to or places i
can go direct to help shop around now

1288
00:31:51,876 –> 00:31:55,543
[andy_panko]: my view is going back i try
to blend the best of both worlds

1289
00:31:55,325 –> 00:31:55,345
[bruno_caron]: m

1290
00:31:56,043 –> 00:32:00,471
[andy_panko]: i think social security is the best
annuity anyone can ever have so a core

1291
00:32:00,591 –> 00:32:05,499
[andy_panko]: tenant of my planning is to make
sure people maximize that for their scenarios to

1292
00:32:05,539 –> 00:32:06,180
[andy_panko]: the and someone

1293
00:32:06,034 –> 00:32:06,278
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1294
00:32:06,221 –> 00:32:07,784
[andy_panko]: has traditional defined benefit

1295
00:32:07,745 –> 00:32:07,765
[bruno_caron]: m

1296
00:32:07,964 –> 00:32:09,748
[andy_panko]: pension same story

1297
00:32:09,514 –> 00:32:09,779
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1298
00:32:10,148 –> 00:32:10,730
[andy_panko]: let’s get the most

1299
00:32:10,745 –> 00:32:10,972
[bruno_caron]: oh

1300
00:32:10,790 –> 00:32:16,851
[andy_panko]: out of that um i kind of
have to view that you generally want to

1301
00:32:16,932 –> 00:32:23,022
[andy_panko]: make sure your anticipated necessary expenses throughout
retirement are covered by guaranteed secure income of

1302
00:32:23,062 –> 00:32:25,646
[andy_panko]: which here’s only three sources social security
pension or annuity

1303
00:32:26,314 –> 00:32:27,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1304
00:32:26,848 –> 00:32:28,311
[andy_panko]: if it’s not then

1305
00:32:28,655 –> 00:32:29,345
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1306
00:32:28,892 –> 00:32:30,514
[andy_panko]: that’s when we start to consider okay
maybe

1307
00:32:30,665 –> 00:32:31,415
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1308
00:32:30,895 –> 00:32:31,937
[andy_panko]: we plug that gap with

1309
00:32:31,955 –> 00:32:32,217
[bruno_caron]: oh

1310
00:32:32,077 –> 00:32:33,700
[andy_panko]: an annuity now what’s the best

1311
00:32:33,605 –> 00:32:33,745
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1312
00:32:34,140 –> 00:32:36,324
[andy_panko]: no option or product out there to
get you that and that’s where i go

1313
00:32:36,364 –> 00:32:36,845
[andy_panko]: to my network

1314
00:32:36,725 –> 00:32:37,047
[bruno_caron]: yes

1315
00:32:36,905 –> 00:32:39,469
[andy_panko]: in my platforms to start feeling around

1316
00:32:39,874 –> 00:32:40,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1317
00:32:40,170 –> 00:32:41,092
[andy_panko]: um some clients

1318
00:32:40,977 –> 00:32:41,465
[bruno_caron]: my

1319
00:32:41,192 –> 00:32:44,958
[andy_panko]: have so many assets even if they
don’t have enough guarantee didn’t come to support

1320
00:32:45,439 –> 00:32:50,027
[andy_panko]: their anticipated necessary expenses they have so
many assets that it doesn’t matter like they’re

1321
00:32:50,067 –> 00:32:53,312
[andy_panko]: never going to burn through them in
that case we don’t bother paying for the

1322
00:32:53,332 –> 00:32:56,618
[andy_panko]: guarantee of an annuity unless they’re ultra
ultra conservative

1323
00:32:56,298 –> 00:32:56,379
[bruno_caron]: oh

1324
00:32:56,658 –> 00:32:57,700
[andy_panko]: and specifically demand it

1325
00:32:58,864 –> 00:32:59,824
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1326
00:32:59,222 –> 00:32:59,663
[andy_panko]: i don’t know that

1327
00:32:59,555 –> 00:32:59,797
[bruno_caron]: oh

1328
00:32:59,743 –> 00:32:59,863
[andy_panko]: it’s

1329
00:33:00,376 –> 00:33:00,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

1330
00:33:00,564 –> 00:33:01,346
[andy_panko]: some some various

1331
00:33:01,133 –> 00:33:01,274
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1332
00:33:01,386 –> 00:33:02,007
[andy_panko]: thoughts there but

1333
00:33:02,334 –> 00:33:03,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: so out of forty five

1334
00:33:03,395 –> 00:33:03,556
[bruno_caron]: yah

1335
00:33:03,496 –> 00:33:05,219
[ramsey_d_smith]: clients this is very interesting because

1336
00:33:04,904 –> 00:33:04,925
[bruno_caron]: h

1337
00:33:05,860 –> 00:33:06,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: the framework

1338
00:33:06,335 –> 00:33:06,884
[bruno_caron]: oh

1339
00:33:06,501 –> 00:33:08,164
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re talking about is like

1340
00:33:08,670 –> 00:33:08,891
[andy_panko]: yeah

1341
00:33:08,705 –> 00:33:09,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: is the exact right one

1342
00:33:10,067 –> 00:33:10,107
[bruno_caron]: m

1343
00:33:10,087 –> 00:33:10,267
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1344
00:33:10,456 –> 00:33:10,476
[paul_tyler]: m

1345
00:33:10,588 –> 00:33:10,728
[ramsey_d_smith]: last

1346
00:33:10,814 –> 00:33:10,835
[bruno_caron]: m

1347
00:33:10,828 –> 00:33:12,591
[ramsey_d_smith]: certainly in my view

1348
00:33:12,455 –> 00:33:12,637
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1349
00:33:12,906 –> 00:33:13,026
[andy_panko]: thank

1350
00:33:13,032 –> 00:33:13,132
[ramsey_d_smith]: at

1351
00:33:13,066 –> 00:33:13,127
[andy_panko]: you

1352
00:33:14,875 –> 00:33:19,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: so then out of forty five clients
where you’re using this this

1353
00:33:19,446 –> 00:33:19,487
[bruno_caron]: m

1354
00:33:19,660 –> 00:33:23,575
[ramsey_d_smith]: this framework how many what percentage of
them

1355
00:33:23,624 –> 00:33:23,645
[bruno_caron]: m

1356
00:33:23,876 –> 00:33:25,098
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know would end up being

1357
00:33:26,045 –> 00:33:26,065
[bruno_caron]: m

1358
00:33:26,240 –> 00:33:28,784
[ramsey_d_smith]: being put in an annuity and the
reason i say

1359
00:33:28,710 –> 00:33:29,033
[andy_panko]: oh

1360
00:33:28,844 –> 00:33:32,790
[ramsey_d_smith]: that is like this is an interesting
sort of like you know sand box where

1361
00:33:33,040 –> 00:33:33,181
[andy_panko]: yeah

1362
00:33:33,291 –> 00:33:34,553
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re outside of the persuasions

1363
00:33:34,355 –> 00:33:34,617
[bruno_caron]: oh

1364
00:33:34,654 –> 00:33:37,258
[ramsey_d_smith]: and people trying to sell and on
the other side you’re outside

1365
00:33:37,285 –> 00:33:37,306
[paul_tyler]: m

1366
00:33:37,318 –> 00:33:37,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the

1367
00:33:37,786 –> 00:33:38,716
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1368
00:33:37,835 –> 00:33:38,116
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1369
00:33:38,240 –> 00:33:38,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: you

1370
00:33:38,280 –> 00:33:38,702
[andy_panko]: oh

1371
00:33:38,360 –> 00:33:41,104
[ramsey_d_smith]: know the the other side of the
persuasions where people are just ring to get

1372
00:33:41,164 –> 00:33:41,505
[ramsey_d_smith]: a um

1373
00:33:41,315 –> 00:33:41,580
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1374
00:33:41,565 –> 00:33:41,846
[ramsey_d_smith]: fees

1375
00:33:41,718 –> 00:33:41,899
[andy_panko]: yeah

1376
00:33:42,326 –> 00:33:42,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

1377
00:33:42,410 –> 00:33:42,531
[andy_panko]: yeah

1378
00:33:42,487 –> 00:33:44,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: we got the right decision making process

1379
00:33:43,895 –> 00:33:44,036
[bruno_caron]: oh

1380
00:33:44,510 –> 00:33:46,834
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’ve got the sample size of forty
five coin it’s

1381
00:33:47,160 –> 00:33:47,502
[andy_panko]: oh

1382
00:33:47,575 –> 00:33:47,735
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1383
00:33:47,675 –> 00:33:47,878
[bruno_caron]: oh

1384
00:33:48,316 –> 00:33:51,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: like what is is it ten per
cent twenty percent thirty percent like what percentage

1385
00:33:51,605 –> 00:33:52,265
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1386
00:33:51,860 –> 00:33:51,900
[ramsey_d_smith]: of

1387
00:33:51,900 –> 00:33:52,141
[andy_panko]: oh

1388
00:33:51,981 –> 00:33:53,723
[ramsey_d_smith]: clients end up all right

1389
00:33:54,035 –> 00:33:54,339
[bruno_caron]: oh

1390
00:33:54,394 –> 00:33:55,180
[ramsey_d_smith]: using an annuity

1391
00:33:55,110 –> 00:33:55,860
[andy_panko]: yeah

1392
00:33:56,915 –> 00:33:56,935
[bruno_caron]: m

1393
00:33:57,281 –> 00:33:58,864
[andy_panko]: honestly most of my clients

1394
00:33:58,604 –> 00:33:58,625
[bruno_caron]: m

1395
00:33:58,904 –> 00:34:02,930
[andy_panko]: and this is probably a result of
my fee structure have more

1396
00:34:02,884 –> 00:34:03,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1397
00:34:03,071 –> 00:34:07,298
[andy_panko]: assets and they’re going to need and
i don’t want to think they’re hiring me

1398
00:34:07,304 –> 00:34:07,325
[bruno_caron]: m

1399
00:34:07,318 –> 00:34:08,940
[andy_panko]: because i’m the cheap guy you know
some three

1400
00:34:08,853 –> 00:34:08,873
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1401
00:34:08,980 –> 00:34:10,002
[andy_panko]: million bucks is going to be

1402
00:34:09,965 –> 00:34:10,188
[bruno_caron]: oh

1403
00:34:10,042 –> 00:34:14,990
[andy_panko]: paying twenty thirty grand at most other
advisors versus d be ninety six hundred and

1404
00:34:15,031 –> 00:34:15,832
[andy_panko]: i can say with confidence

1405
00:34:15,484 –> 00:34:16,130
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1406
00:34:15,892 –> 00:34:20,319
[andy_panko]: my service is most likely better yet
it’s cheaper again it’s not cheap i feel

1407
00:34:20,255 –> 00:34:21,065
[bruno_caron]: my

1408
00:34:20,520 –> 00:34:23,344
[andy_panko]: right fee i feel they’re overcharging in
that case so anyway

1409
00:34:23,375 –> 00:34:23,395
[bruno_caron]: m

1410
00:34:23,765 –> 00:34:24,667
[andy_panko]: a lot of my clients have

1411
00:34:24,584 –> 00:34:24,605
[bruno_caron]: m

1412
00:34:24,687 –> 00:34:26,650
[andy_panko]: a few million dollars which is more
than their

1413
00:34:26,825 –> 00:34:27,351
[bruno_caron]: oh

1414
00:34:27,992 –> 00:34:28,453
[andy_panko]: likely gonna

1415
00:34:28,504 –> 00:34:28,565
[bruno_caron]: ah

1416
00:34:28,773 –> 00:34:31,498
[andy_panko]: come close to spending down so it
hasn’t it’s not that

1417
00:34:31,454 –> 00:34:31,475
[bruno_caron]: m

1418
00:34:31,618 –> 00:34:33,861
[andy_panko]: prevalent i do have some clients that

1419
00:34:33,935 –> 00:34:33,955
[bruno_caron]: m

1420
00:34:33,962 –> 00:34:37,247
[andy_panko]: have existing annuities that that they have
from before

1421
00:34:37,229 –> 00:34:37,270
[bruno_caron]: m

1422
00:34:37,287 –> 00:34:38,169
[andy_panko]: we started working together

1423
00:34:38,024 –> 00:34:38,045
[bruno_caron]: m

1424
00:34:38,164 –> 00:34:38,365
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1425
00:34:38,569 –> 00:34:43,497
[andy_panko]: in some cases we have kept them
that is folded into their part of their

1426
00:34:43,538 –> 00:34:51,703
[andy_panko]: income plan another case we did have
it surrendered recently now with the markets doing

1427
00:34:51,723 –> 00:34:52,384
[andy_panko]: what they’re doing

1428
00:34:52,757 –> 00:34:52,797
[bruno_caron]: m

1429
00:34:53,326 –> 00:34:53,526
[andy_panko]: people

1430
00:34:53,564 –> 00:34:53,585
[bruno_caron]: m

1431
00:34:53,606 –> 00:34:56,210
[andy_panko]: have been more concerned have been questioning
more

1432
00:34:56,315 –> 00:34:56,682
[bruno_caron]: uh

1433
00:34:56,351 –> 00:35:01,459
[andy_panko]: do i want to need security income
which i’m sue you’re not surprised markets are

1434
00:35:01,479 –> 00:35:03,653
[andy_panko]: homme everything was great no one

1435
00:35:03,637 –> 00:35:03,657
[bruno_caron]: m

1436
00:35:03,694 –> 00:35:07,242
[andy_panko]: wants to hear anything about paying for
an annuity where even if i live till

1437
00:35:07,323 –> 00:35:11,570
[andy_panko]: ninety i’ll get maybe four something per
cent n’t it right if if i

1438
00:35:11,555 –> 00:35:11,899
[bruno_caron]: oh

1439
00:35:11,630 –> 00:35:14,975
[andy_panko]: die before that you know it’s a
terrible deal on the surface and i try

1440
00:35:15,015 –> 00:35:16,638
[andy_panko]: to explain to people don’t view it
as an investment you

1441
00:35:16,714 –> 00:35:16,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1442
00:35:16,758 –> 00:35:20,967
[andy_panko]: can’t really look at are its longevity
insurance you buy it for guarantee stability certainty

1443
00:35:21,529 –> 00:35:22,752
[andy_panko]: knowing the pay checks on a e
there et cetera

1444
00:35:22,985 –> 00:35:23,005
[bruno_caron]: m

1445
00:35:23,413 –> 00:35:28,864
[andy_panko]: but still that’s a tough sale a
year ago when markets were red hot and

1446
00:35:28,924 –> 00:35:29,245
[andy_panko]: everyone’s

1447
00:35:29,007 –> 00:35:29,047
[bruno_caron]: m

1448
00:35:29,265 –> 00:35:32,069
[andy_panko]: like i got making money hand over
fist as much as i said to

1449
00:35:32,023 –> 00:35:32,044
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1450
00:35:32,129 –> 00:35:32,390
[andy_panko]: folks

1451
00:35:32,199 –> 00:35:32,882
[bruno_caron]: and race for a log

1452
00:35:32,750 –> 00:35:33,552
[andy_panko]: this isn’t going to last

1453
00:35:33,844 –> 00:35:33,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1454
00:35:34,353 –> 00:35:36,597
[andy_panko]: and rats were low and payouts weren’t
great on annuities

1455
00:35:36,274 –> 00:35:36,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1456
00:35:36,757 –> 00:35:40,344
[andy_panko]: right um i did condition folks to

1457
00:35:40,394 –> 00:35:40,415
[bruno_caron]: m

1458
00:35:40,404 –> 00:35:41,867
[andy_panko]: say this stock market

1459
00:35:41,795 –> 00:35:41,815
[bruno_caron]: m

1460
00:35:41,907 –> 00:35:44,332
[andy_panko]: is not going to last i don’t
know when but it’s got to turn at

1461
00:35:44,352 –> 00:35:45,274
[andy_panko]: some point so here we are

1462
00:35:45,245 –> 00:35:45,845
[bruno_caron]: may

1463
00:35:45,414 –> 00:35:48,000
[andy_panko]: you know a year later um

1464
00:35:48,103 –> 00:35:48,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1465
00:35:48,260 –> 00:35:54,831
[andy_panko]: now with markets down people are sort
of naturally more interested in my god what

1466
00:35:55,011 –> 00:35:55,892
[andy_panko]: do let’s do something

1467
00:35:56,054 –> 00:35:56,075
[bruno_caron]: m

1468
00:35:56,153 –> 00:35:56,453
[andy_panko]: should we

1469
00:35:56,413 –> 00:35:56,434
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1470
00:35:56,513 –> 00:35:58,296
[andy_panko]: get into an annuity just cut my
losses

1471
00:35:58,043 –> 00:35:58,084
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1472
00:35:58,115 –> 00:35:58,135
[bruno_caron]: m

1473
00:35:58,417 –> 00:35:59,719
[andy_panko]: get rid of the variability going forward

1474
00:35:59,594 –> 00:35:59,615
[bruno_caron]: m

1475
00:36:00,640 –> 00:36:01,261
[andy_panko]: so we’ve had more

1476
00:36:01,325 –> 00:36:01,587
[bruno_caron]: yes

1477
00:36:01,342 –> 00:36:02,163
[andy_panko]: conversations

1478
00:36:01,354 –> 00:36:01,574
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1479
00:36:02,263 –> 00:36:06,631
[andy_panko]: there is there’s two clients i’ve had
that talk with i didn’t sell them i

1480
00:36:06,731 –> 00:36:08,133
[andy_panko]: said here’s one alternative

1481
00:36:08,764 –> 00:36:09,484
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1482
00:36:08,794 –> 00:36:08,874
[andy_panko]: to

1483
00:36:08,945 –> 00:36:08,965
[bruno_caron]: m

1484
00:36:08,955 –> 00:36:13,582
[andy_panko]: riding out investments you know i still
think investments will come back where

1485
00:36:13,414 –> 00:36:13,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1486
00:36:13,763 –> 00:36:14,103
[andy_panko]: positioned

1487
00:36:13,796 –> 00:36:13,981
[bruno_caron]: yes

1488
00:36:14,143 –> 00:36:16,948
[andy_panko]: well for sequence overturn they have cash
buffers right we

1489
00:36:16,925 –> 00:36:1